BTW: We're all arrogant idiots.

[Critterfixer]

I hardly think public or private school would constitute democracy. At best the situation would be one of a limited republic subject to the approval of benevolent dictators. At worst the model would be survival in a prison riot.

 

As far as the argument of "depriving the school system" of it's regular allotment of children (erk--sounds like feeding a dragon doesn't it?) I expect the beef would be over funding. More kids, more money for the school. Funny, the last time our school system got money here they renovated the gymnasium and the football fields, not the library.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

really tempted to go over and comment, "you keep using the word 'arrogant'- You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ..."

 

:lol:

 

I won't though, I'd hate to stir the pot.

 

I am intelligent enough to go through the motions to give my children the less than stellar education I received at public school...the science classes that had labs we did not use, the shiny microscopes we were not taught how to work, the world History class that consisted of serial movies such as Shogun., the AP English class where we wrote like mad (it was the best class I ever had in ps) but did not learn MLS format and only actually read 3 books for- we discussed all the others that would be on the AP Exam...I could do at least that- but I am also intelligent enough to reach for more. I offer my kids much more than I experienced, and when I sense that even my more would not be all that it could be, I out-source..and pay a very pretty penny for those classes.

 

I think what stings the most, is not having arrogant non-homeschoolers treat us like mad idiots, but the assumption that it is a choice we take lightly, like a passing, silly impulse- not as if it were one of the most important and excruciating parenting decisions we have ever made- and not acknowledging the fact that we have spent hundreds of hours agonizing over this decision, researching this decision, and constantly re-evaluating if it continues to be the right decision for each or our children, ourselves, and our family. Not even taking into account the hundreds of hours spent researching materials, courses, teaching methods.

I am not arrogant, if I were less busy, I'd be insulted.

 

pfft.

 

in our school district, I could send my kids to walk down the street to school, without breakfast, the school would feed them, in dirty clothes, the school has washers and dryers to wash dirty clothes and loaner uniforms to lend out while they wash...they would feed them lunch, then they could walk home...and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed. Homeschooling is not the "easy" thing for me to do. :glare:

 

Post of the Day.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Tibbie Dunbar
added a gold star for Hen Jen

[LucyStoner]

Apparently, only being in ps will give our children the opportunity to participate in democracy.

 

Being members pariticpating of society, making choices we can make BECAUSE we're in a democracy, just doesn't cut it.

 

I got the gist but the way she defined action democracy is ridiculous. One of the reasons I can choose my kids schooling arrangement is because I live in a democracy.

 

I hate the notion that I am abandoning the ps by homeschooling. So stupid. I do not owe the ps my child and in his case, sending him to school was abandoning him because of the really awful bullying he endured. I am pretty certain that abandoning my kid is worse than abandoning a school.

 

I had the opportunity to discuss this issue of middle class parents weakening the schools by leaving with Jonathan Kozol, author of Savage Inequalities, and even he said that sacrificing your own children to a cause was not worth it. You have to pick the best you can give and you can still do that while supporting public education. I volunteer to raise money for some local ps, who really need it. Homeschooling is about what turned out to the be best for my son, not shutting out my participation in this chick's active democracy live lives. :tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I hardly think public or private school would constitute democracy. At best the situation would be one of a limited republic subject to the approval of benevolent dictators. At worst the model would be survival in a prison riot.

:iagree:

[Kirch]

I got the gist but the way she defined action democracy is ridiculous. One of the reasons I can choose my kids schooling arrangement is because I live in a democracy.

 

I hate the notion that I am abandoning the ps by homeschooling. So stupid. I do not owe the ps my child and in his case, sending him to school was abandoning him because of the really awful bullying he endured. I am pretty certain that abandoning my kid is worse than abandoning a school.

 

I had the opportunity to discuss this issue of middle class parents weakening the schools by leaving with Jonathan Kozol, author of Savage Inequalities, and even he said that sacrificing your own children to a cause was not worth it. You have to pick the best you can give and you can still do that while supporting public education. I volunteer to raise money for some local ps, who really need it. Homeschooling is about what turned out to the be best for my son, not shutting out my participation in this chick's active democracy live lives. :tongue_smilie:

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

The thing that gets me is the idea that if we DID all send our kids to PS, the presence of more kids whose parents are invested in and dedicated to their educations would magically improve the schools. Test scores might improve for a while, but I think the problems run much, much deeper than that. On an individual, classroom level, I can see it--I can see how having a few more stronger students with committed parents would make a difference for an individual class/teacher. But I don't think the overall problems facing education in America have much to do with or would be drastically impacted by how many homeschoolers have pulled their kids out. So we'd be sacrificing our kids, they'd get substandard educations, and nothing would really change in the end.

 

(Disclaimer--I know that there are good schools out there and that there are plenty of parents who are invested in their kids' educations and send them to PS; we have several who post here. I'm speaking in generalizations about the state of education in the US today.)

Edited September 23, 2011 by Kirch

[coffeefreak]

really tempted to go over and comment, "you keep using the word 'arrogant'- You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ..."

 

:lol:

 

I won't though, I'd hate to stir the pot.

 

I am intelligent enough to go through the motions to give my children the less than stellar education I received at public school...the science classes that had labs we did not use, the shiny microscopes we were not taught how to work, the world History class that consisted of serial movies such as Shogun., the AP English class where we wrote like mad (it was the best class I ever had in ps) but did not learn MLS format and only actually read 3 books for- we discussed all the others that would be on the AP Exam...I could do at least that- but I am also intelligent enough to reach for more. I offer my kids much more than I experienced, and when I sense that even my more would not be all that it could be, I out-source..and pay a very pretty penny for those classes.

 

I think what stings the most, is not having arrogant non-homeschoolers treat us like mad idiots, but the assumption that it is a choice we take lightly, like a passing, silly impulse- not as if it were one of the most important and excruciating parenting decisions we have ever made- and not acknowledging the fact that we have spent hundreds of hours agonizing over this decision, researching this decision, and constantly re-evaluating if it continues to be the right decision for each or our children, ourselves, and our family. Not even taking into account the hundreds of hours spent researching materials, courses, teaching methods.

I am not arrogant, if I were less busy, I'd be insulted.

 

pfft.

 

in our school district, I could send my kids to walk down the street to school, without breakfast, the school would feed them, in dirty clothes, the school has washers and dryers to wash dirty clothes and loaner uniforms to lend out while they wash...they would feed them lunch, then they could walk home...and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed. Homeschooling is not the "easy" thing for me to do. :glare:

 

 

Jen,

I don't even know you and I think I love you.:001_wub: This certainly is the post of the day.

Blessings!

Dorinda

[mommaduck]

HenJen, love The Princess Bride quip!

[Carpe]

really tempted to go over and comment, "you keep using the word 'arrogant'- You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ..."

 

:lol:

 

I won't though, I'd hate to stir the pot.

 

I am intelligent enough to go through the motions to give my children the less than stellar education I received at public school...the science classes that had labs we did not use, the shiny microscopes we were not taught how to work, the world History class that consisted of serial movies such as Shogun., the AP English class where we wrote like mad (it was the best class I ever had in ps) but did not learn MLS format and only actually read 3 books for- we discussed all the others that would be on the AP Exam...I could do at least that- but I am also intelligent enough to reach for more. I offer my kids much more than I experienced, and when I sense that even my more would not be all that it could be, I out-source..and pay a very pretty penny for those classes.

 

I think what stings the most, is not having arrogant non-homeschoolers treat us like mad idiots, but the assumption that it is a choice we take lightly, like a passing, silly impulse- not as if it were one of the most important and excruciating parenting decisions we have ever made- and not acknowledging the fact that we have spent hundreds of hours agonizing over this decision, researching this decision, and constantly re-evaluating if it continues to be the right decision for each or our children, ourselves, and our family. Not even taking into account the hundreds of hours spent researching materials, courses, teaching methods.

I am not arrogant, if I were less busy, I'd be insulted.

 

pfft.

 

in our school district, I could send my kids to walk down the street to school, without breakfast, the school would feed them, in dirty clothes, the school has washers and dryers to wash dirty clothes and loaner uniforms to lend out while they wash...they would feed them lunch, then they could walk home...and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed. Homeschooling is not the "easy" thing for me to do. :glare:

 

Yes. This exactly. Post of the day for sure.

[Ritsumei]

Homeschooling is growing and I suspect we will all see much more of this type of thing. I have had several teachers tell me that between homeschool, charters and privates they feel more and more the public schools are struggling to keep high performing students.

 

 

There are similar concerns about public school enrollments in our state - but it's not limited to just the high performing students. I happened across a chart from the state while I was looking around to figure out if I need to register this year or not. Since our state's requirement is that HSers file a form saying, "Yeah, we're HSing, no we're not just skipping school, these are the ages of the kids we've got," they have numbers on HSers, as well as private & public schools.

 

Those numbers have been, across the board, consistently down over the past couple of years.

 

I've heard from a couple of public school teachers that HSers are harming the community - harming the teachers - by keeping their kids home. Near as I can tell, the underlying premise was that they are entitled to have jobs, teaching jobs, and anyone that sends their kids anywhere except public schools is against teachers. The funny thing is, in this same conversation the lady (a music teacher), was complaining about people who say they homeschool but don't really do anything, and then "dump their children back on the system" where they suck up resources that could have gone to other, presumably more deserving, students. It didn't seem to occur to her that maybe some of those students might have needed a service or two, regardless of where they'd been educated the previous year...:confused:

 

 

I'm realizing this at something of a tangent to the main thread. I guess that this particular lady's comments hurt more than I realized: she used to be a mentor for me, when I was a teen. We had some good times together. But it just drives me crazy when people think that they are somehow entitled to any particular job. Sure, they have a right to work and support themselves, but certainly there's no guarantee that a certain type of work is going to always be available for you! And don't get me started on assuming that my child was created for your employment!!:glare:

[Aubrey]

I lied. Last week I blogged that I would research and tell you why homeschooling is 2-million-children-strong and border-line mainstream. I planned to report out why parents in our generation are deciding to homeschool en masse but I can’t do it. I can’t get past the total lack of logic. As an English teacher, this doesn't make sense. You have to read illogical papers by students all the time. I mean...IF you read them...Of course, this blog post makes it clear that your area of expertise is NOT logic. :001_smile: I can’t help but be freaked out by Facebook groups and blogs touting their homeschooling methods and group field trips. I'm sure there's therapy available for that. I avoid pictures of large spiders online, too, but that doesn't make them less real, logical, etc. But since I don't want to look at them, I don't blog about them. :001_smile: Homeschooling Co-ops are popping up everywhere encouraging the average parent that they can become both teacher and school to their brood. Sounds problematic, right? Because it is.

 

Sounds problematic in that most hs parents only aspire to be their kids' teachers, not schools. But I guess if you include the pg ones...

 

 

 

I’m fired up and this is me Just. Getting. Started.

 

 

Don’t believe the current political rhetoric, teachers are experts who know more than you.

 

Schools are failing and it’s because of the terrible, stupid, evil teachers. That is mostly what we’ve been hearing in our state for the last year from politicians. Just like politicians, teachers cannot be expected to fix all of our society’s ills that are simply mirrored in our school systems.

 

Wait...I had such good stuff to say to this, but then I saw that you were comparing teachers to politicians...I think you made my argument for me. :lol:

 

Teaching is an art and a science. Teachers are experts in their field based on experience and education. Yet their counterparts in the professional world rarely respect their "expertise." (And there's no sarcasm here--I've got an Ed degree.) How could parents (Education backgrounds or non) become experts in the curriculum each school year? It takes years for a teacher to hone their craft and their curriculum for one specific grade level.

 

On this point, I don't disagree, actually. I don't think one person could ever compete with the *ideal* for ea subject/year of school. But the reality? I'd say there are a lot of people who could give the *actual* state of ps education a run for its money. We're not talking about experts in every subject every year--we're talking about the people who fill the positions that the school has open, be that substitutes, "experts" with over 200 students each, or just your average, run-of-the-mill teacher-types.

 

No one could ever prepare and master all standards and content K-12. How could anyone effectively teach their varied-aged children every single year just by trading lesson plans with other homeschooling moms? BA-NA-NAS. No one’s that awesome. I'm taking that line as a compliment. :D Thank you! I can rock a ninth grade English class teaching them poetry but I am certain my sad math skills won’t help me with my kids’ homework past the fifth grade.

 

My condolences for your lack of intelligence. Perhaps in your study of poetry, you've heard of e. e. cummings? The guy was good at math AND poetry. It's possible.

 

Are homeschooling parents egotistical enough to think they can know and teach Everything? Classics? Calculus? Chemistry? PE? Please.

 

It's only egotistical if we're wrong. ;) One could ask if a rocket scientist is egotistical enough to think he could design a machine to send a man to the moon. But the asker would betray a lack of...insight...into the nature of astrophysics. Which is understandable, but combined with the arrogance *also* betrayed by the question? Hmmmm....

 

Character Education

 

More important than the actual material was that my best teachers illustrated for me how they think. What they valued. How they chose to live and how I could choose to as well when I graduated to adulthood.

 

Now I understand why you became a teacher. Not because the only people you admired were teachers but because the only people you KNEW were teachers, bad or good.

 

Sit down. Take a deep breath. Turns out, you can learn about how people think, what they value, how they live...even if they're not teachers. You know how amazed you were the first time you saw a teacher outside of the classroom--say at the grocery store? Other people go to the grocery store, too. Except maybe not rock stars.

 

My favorite teachers like Mr. Condon, my sophomore English teacher, taught me to see the world differently by making themselves vulnerable enough to reveal to students who they were. These teachers expanded my worldview, past the boundaries and norms of my own family, where I was able to start defining who I wanted to be.

 

If I were your 9th grade English teacher, I'd point out that this example lacks any concrete detail. HOW did Mr. Condon or any of the other "good teachers" expand your worldview? You're failing to connect with your audience.

 

Conversely, I also had one abusive high school teacher who belittled me every day in front of the class to the point that I wouldn’t speak anymore in her room. To anyone. One time she snarled, “Alexis, stop brushing your hair- that’s the way bugs are spread!†She bullied me until students I didn’t know asked me what I did to her for her to hate me so much. I had no idea. I was new at that school. I was shy and 17. After months of her cruelty, I asked her what I did to deserve her hatefulness and she backed down because she was and is a coward. In her ugliness she taught me about my strength.

 

This is awesome. I'd LOVE for my kids to get to see if they've got strength or courage or anything like that by having their self-esteem completely squashed by an adult. But I'm sure we can find someone evil outside of the teaching field to help supplement their education in that way...or do public schools have the market on bullies cornered? Shoot. We might have to drop them off in the parking lot for an hour to wait for a bus or something to work in the bullying that's even more important than the content of their education.

 

Unless torturing them with Latin will cover that need. :001_huh: I guess I'll ask an expert.

 

The teachers your children will encounter will be excellent examples of character sprinkled with a few non-examples but we need all of those perspectives to question our beliefs, confuse, irritate, inspire, uplift, and finally create ourselves. One parent teaching at home can’t do that.

 

No, but brothers and sisters sure can.

[Aubrey]

Parents are the main teachers of their children but remember that thing about the village.

 

Homeschooling parents are reading books like “The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the Whole World As Your Child’s Classroom†by Mary Griffith, which she summarizes, “Unschooling is a homeschooling method based on the belief that kids learn best when allowed to pursue their natural curiosities and interests.â€

 

I'm imagining how I'd chuckle if one of my students had handed in a research paper like this:

 

1. I didn't do the research because the topic (that I chose) squigs me out.

 

2. But I found this one book that some of them are probably reading.

 

3. Not that I read it, of course, but on the back of the book there's a summary.

 

4. Thesis statement: I think the summary of the book I didn't read about the topic I didn't research is silly.

 

It's funny enough, I'd read it aloud to my husband.

 

Good parents do this naturally, not as some excuse to shield their kids from the scary world of other people and school.

 

At this point, I'm only shielding mine from the scary world of illogical arguments and unfounded claims. I'm basing my choice on Plato's postulation that children should be surrounded by beautiful things. I carry that forward to include clear thinking, but I think that's a finer point & open to debate.

 

See just like “unschooling†parents, I take my kids to the aquarium and teach them about what sharks eat and the symbiotic relationship between sea anemones and clown fish and how Winter the dolphin’s prosthetic tail works over her peduncle. I have play dates to socialize. We finger paint self-portraits. But that alone does not an education make.

 

Honestly, how would you know if that's enough or not? You've already said that you can't really be an expert in education as a whole. But just so you know--the rest of that book you didn't read did not say that this was enough for a kid's whole education. And the other books we read? They don't say that, either.

 

You wouldn't like everything that's said in those books, of course, just like all the teachers one might encounter aren't going to be agreeable, but isn't that what you said the point of education is?

 

Those are the fun activities that serve to supplement. After the artsy-fartsy pursuits there are plenty of other skills necessary for a well-rounded child.

 

Well, I don't know about farting, but we do teach art and foreign language. In elem school. My local ps only offers these courses to non-native speakers of English, so technically, I'm offering *more* of the "other skills" than the ps is.

 

Can I get into all of those topics? No! Because my knowledge is limited.

 

My knowledge is limited, but my curiosity is not. I'm not limited by the constraints of 30+ kids in a classroom. I'm not limited by school bells, curriculum committees, or bureaucracy. While I know that there are a few experts in the school system who are real treasures, my experience is that the system itself tends to shackle & swallow them.

 

And I am smart enough to know that I don’t know what she needs to know.

 

Somehow...I respected this more coming from Aristotle. In this context...I just want to say, "Bless your heart..."

 

I am smart enough to trust that my daughter’s teacher, who is certified in Pre-K knows what the standards are that Punky needs to know!

 

Wait. I understand someone objecting to the likelihood (not possibility, though) of one person being able to teach both calculus and thesis statements, but pre-k? Really? You don't trust yourself with THAT?

 

That's a pretty good summary, then, of why I do NOT want you as my kid's 9th g English teacher. You're just. not. smart. enough.

 

Punky needs many many teachers. We as her parents will always be the lead ones, but for the sake of balance and well-roundedness, we all need the whole village. Thank you, schools!

 

PSA: "Village" is not code for "school." A village is typically made up of a variety of real people: farmers, merchants, ministers, other parents, etc. Most hs'ing kids encounter more of the "village" than a ps kid *ever* does.

 

These are only a few of my millions of concerns about children being “taught†by non-certified parents in their homes.

 

Grammar note: the use of quotation marks to mock the denotation of a word is not standard usage & can go both ways, eg:

 

Students "taught" by ps teachers often have to take remedial classes in college because they find themselves unprepared for the rigors of college standards.

 

What a disservice to keep kids in a bubble and not allow them to experience other students’ and teachers’ ideas.

 

Do you mean like the "bubble" of public school, during which kids are not even legally ALLOWED to leave the bubble?

 

It’s the ultimate control freak and fear-driven parenting behavior. Whose Kool-Aid did these families drink to decide to “unschool�

 

Control-freak, maybe, but fear-driven? You are turning your children over to the state because you're afraid you'll break them by not teaching appropriate preschool standards! (Fyi: there really aren't standards for preschool; that starts in K. And it's hard to say which "standards" are appropriate, since, ironically, they're not standardized. Ea state has different requirements. As do private schools.)

 

You know that one saying, “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teachâ€. Here is my revision: Those who can teach, do. Those who can’t, homeschool.

 

 

Yep, I know the saying. I wonder where it could possibly have come from? :confused: By your revision, are you claiming that the teacher who belittled you was a capable teacher?

 

When I was teaching, I knew one man who daily complained that we no longer had public hangings, as he thought that was the only thing that was going to get his students in line. I overheard teachers yelling & cussing at their students.

 

I met very few who *wanted* to be there; it's just that once you've got teaching on your resume, well...it tends to color the view the rest of the village has of you. For some reason, they tend to think teachers are arrogant, ignorant control freaks. Although I saw a teacher chew a waiter out like a student on his way to the principal's office for bringing her drink too slowly, I'm not sure where this stereotype comes from. ;)

 

Classrooms are already so crowded: do you really want all these hs'ing kids to make things worse? Do you really want their arrogant, control-freak parents in your classroom on meet-the-teacher night asking you to explain your curriculum choices? Leave the homeschoolers to the village, & stick to your ps bubble.

[kalanamak]

Can someone tell me where everyone is reading these cool comments? Did I miss it?

 

Google one of the lines from post #23. Note particularly how the original post is breezy and full of slang, but the responses to any reply disagreeing with her are full of long words trying to sound important. Like luring someone into the back alley to knife them. I know it is a cliche, but I feel sorry for her offspring.

 

And I love the cut and paste of one of our comments here: it was labeled as "from one of the more ignorant sows over on the well trained mind forum".

 

:lol: Now I can't sleep imagining this poster as very big, round, pink, and surrounded with the contented grunting and slurpings of a dozen fat piglets. :lol::lol:

[MSNative]

Well, I don't know about farting, but we do teach art and foreign language. In elem school. My local ps only offers these courses to non-native speakers of English, so technically, I'm offering *more* of the "other skills" than the ps is.

 

This is one of those areas that I let the brothers teach. :)

"My knowledge is limited, but my curiosity is not. I'm not limited by the constraints of 30+ kids in a classroom. I'm not limited by school bells, curriculum committees, or bureaucracy. While I know that there are a few experts in the school system who are real treasures, my experience is that the system itself tends to shackle & swallow them. "

 

I loved your post. This paragaph sums it all up for me. I especially love the first line. One of the reasons I home school is to instill that attitude in my kids.

 

 

As for the actual blog entry, she sounds like a young, inexperienced but passionate teacher and a fairly new mom. Give her a few more years and she may want to revise that post.

[pdalley]

Google one of the lines from post #23. Note particularly how the original post is breezy and full of slang, but the responses to any reply disagreeing with her are full of long words trying to sound important. Like luring someone into the back alley to knife them. I know it is a cliche, but I feel sorry for her offspring.

 

And I love the cut and paste of one of our comments here: it was labeled as "from one of the more ignorant sows over on the well trained mind forum".

 

:lol: Now I can't sleep imagining this poster as very big, round, pink, and surrounded with the contented grunting and slurpings of a dozen fat piglets. :lol::lol:

 

 

Uh, we aren't sows! We're bees. And I think the blogger needs to look up the word ignorant as she obviously has no clue she's the poster child for the word when it comes to homeschooling.

 

And she says we're arrogant idiots? At least we and our kids know the meaning of the word ignorant.

 

And I hate to inform her but the public schools do not want my kids. They made that very clear. I'm actually doing them a favor by educating my boys at home as they whine about not being able to provide for special learners. Fine. I can do it myself.

[FaithManor]

Pencil Pusher is my hero!!!!! :D

 

As we've said before, "Don't poke the Hive!" One of the queens will take you out of commission.

 

I hope the blogger has an epi-pen available. It's really dangerous to be stung multiple times by killer bees. :biggrinjester:

 

Faith -

[mommaduck]

could someone please pm me the link, broken. Thanks to those that have been c/p-ing. Most blog sites are blocked from this computer, but I'd like to see if this one is or not.

 

As for ps making a kid find their strengths, what about those that have cracked or nearly cracked due to constant bullying by both peers and teachers?

Edited September 23, 2011 by mommaduck

[phathui5]

Honestly, she does have one good argument. If we don't send our dc to school to get bullied by teachers how will they ever learn crucial life skills and strength? :glare:

 

We can bully them here at home.

[Bang!Zoom!]

There's advertisers and companies that would be embarrassed to be a part of this you know.

 

Hint Hint

[RegGuheert]

Thanks for helping me get sucked in over there, ladies! :glare:

 

My contribution, FWIW, in response to this post by s.jones:

Well, let me just say that the number one most important component of a democracy is PUBLIC EDUCATION! To those who want to destroy, dismantle or otherwise disparage it, I say that you are certainly good tea partiers. In addition, I can’t think of anything more suffocating for a child than to be home schooled. All the field-trips, play dates or extracurricular activities in the world cannot make up for the real deficiency of the genuinely liberating experience of “going to schoolâ€. All the prattle and rationalizing of the home schoolers really comes down to their fears and control issues. But hey, good luck to you all. Oh ya, when you decide you’ve had it and send your kids to public school when they’re in middle or high school,don’t blame the schools for your insufficient ability. By the way, where DID you go to school? It must have been an amazing education.

Love,

a public school teacher, and proud of it!

Reg's response:

Public education is also the number one most important component of a totalitarian regime. The only difference in the two is that under totalitarianism the information which is being taught is restricted by the state to a subset of the whole with the result that education is reduced to indoctrination. This is exactly what is going on in the public schools in the U.S. today.

While it can be argued that some homeschoolers also indoctrinate their children, the result is vastly different, since it cannot reasonably be argued that these homeschoolers all indoctrinate their children in the same way. In reality homeschoolers bring a diversity to education in the U.S. that has been systematically reduced over many years by our government.

Unfortunately, the way things are arranged on that blog, my comment is now buried up in the page. :glare:

[pdalley]

We can bully them here at home.

 

 

Well the blogger certainly has developed her bullying skills. 'Cause I said so' is classic bullying rhetoric.

 

She really should stop digging as she's dug herself quite a hole.

[unsinkable]

could someone please pm me the link, broken. Thanks to those that have been c/p-ing. Most blog sites are blocked from this computer, but I'd like to see if this one is or not.

 

As for ps making a kid find their strengths, what about those that have cracked or nearly cracked due to constant bullying by both peers and teachers?

 

There is a local boy here who commited suicide b/c he was bullied for years. His parents went to the local news to speak out against bullying and I guess it has been picked up by the national news organizations.

 

I admire their courage for speaking out b/c there is still such a stigma against suicide but it breaks my heart that they are speaking out b/c their dear boy is dead.:crying:

Edited September 23, 2011 by unsinkable

[mommaduck]

There is a local boy here who commited suicide b/c he was bullied for years. His parents went to the local news to speak out against bullying and I guess it has been picked up by the national news organizations.

 

I admire their courage for speaking out b/c there is still such a stigma against suicide but it breaks my heart that they are speaking out b/c their dear boy is dead.:crying:

I cracked and cracked and cracked. I didn't attempt suicide, but it certainly crossed my mind as a kid. So did running away. School wasn't a "liberating experience" for me; it was a hellhole. It didn't make me stronger (I didn't get that until I was already an adult). Honestly, school is almost too painful to talk about even to this day. Highschool went a bit easier, but before that, no. It's the number one reason that I initially chose to homeschool my kids. Now I have about a thousand other reasons.

[WIS0320]

Is "Zach" the original blogger posing as someone else in the comments?!

[mommaduck]

Again, could someone send me a broken link in pm?

[RegGuheert]

Is "Zach" the original blogger posing as someone else in the comments?!

Others have suggested this, but I don't think so. To me "Zach" seems more eloquent than the original blogger. Though it certainly is possible...

[unsinkable]

I cracked and cracked and cracked. I didn't attempt suicide, but it certainly crossed my mind as a kid. So did running away. School wasn't a "liberating experience" for me; it was a hellhole. It didn't make me stronger (I didn't get that until I was already an adult). Honestly, school is almost too painful to talk about even to this day. Highschool went a bit easier, but before that, no. It's the number one reason that I initially chose to homeschool my kids. Now I have about a thousand other reasons.

 

:grouphug: I am so sorry. :grouphug:

[ChrissySC]

The institution has grown numerically far too large to moderate or to exemplify an education. Why would you send your child to a building full of hundreds of children, if not thousands as is the case for most middle and senior high schools?

 

For roughy 49 million students there are only 2 million teachers nationwide. You do the math. Can you watch all of those kids? As the children beginning in the sixth grade do not remain in a classroom (age 11), they are left to themselves to move within the building or even leave the school completely.

 

 

This works? This is what she is fighting for? Children do not need any adult supervision, guidance, or parental involvment at the age of 11?

 

 

Edit: Look at their own statistics ... http://nces.ed.gov/

Edited September 23, 2011 by ChrissySC

[....]

There is a local boy here who commited suicide b/c he was bullied for years. His parents went to the local news to speak out against bullying and I guess it has been picked up by the national news organizations.

 

I admire their courage for speaking out b/c there is still such a stigma against suicide but it breaks my heart that they are speaking out b/c their dear boy is dead.:crying:

 

There was a 9 yro here who also committed suicide at the school during school hours.

[amsunshine]

I'm imagining how I'd chuckle if one of my students had handed in a research paper like this:

 

1. I didn't do the research because the topic (that I chose) squigs me out.

 

2. But I found this one book that some of them are probably reading.

 

3. Not that I read it, of course, but on the back of the book there's a summary.

 

4. Thesis statement: I think the summary of the book I didn't read about the topic I didn't research is silly.

 

 

:lol:

 

This is hilarious....thanks for the laugh. Please tell me you are going to post your responses on her blog....

 

[FaithManor]

Reguheert,

 

Your response was well put. Thanks.

 

 

Faith

[mommaduck]

Further, I’m not sure how you would “research” reading The Great Gatsby 50 times, or Othello 50 times, or Cannery Row 50 times, or Plato’s Republic 50 times, etc. There’s no research that make you that familiar with works of Literature outside of swimming through them over and over and over again which I’m paid to do. I’m an expert, I’ve lived through these books over and over and each swim is a new swim, new locales are discovered, new currents, and I grab the hand of my students and show them how to swim through these works, until they can swim by themselves.

 

She seriously doesn't know homeschooling parents! She also doesn't know my kids, specifically my oldest kid. #1 I find it sad that she might be limited to those few books (sorry, Gatsby wasn't the greatest, but it was enjoyable). We never read Othello or Plato's Republic in highschool. Highschool hasn't changed much. I looked over the literature lists. They haven't changed much since I was a kid. #2 we LOVE literature here. ANOTHER reason we homeschool is the fact that I learned more from the Public Library as a kid than I ever learned in school. I read more literature on my own time than was available at school. My son reads, listens to, and rereads Homer's and Shakespeare's works. We have realouds here (Shakespeare is a riot to read aloud here). Seriously, she may get paid to read them over and over. We, however, ENJOY reading them over and over.

[chepyl]

I was frustrated by the comment about hsers being soft. Then he asked if they had ever failed a course....isn't that one reason to hs. Our kids LEARN the material. If we test or grade, it is to find weak spots and fix them, not to fail them and move on. My son has plenty of opportunities to fail in life. Academics should not be one of those failures. Maybe DS is "soft" he is six, why does he need to be rough and tough right now?

Edited September 23, 2011 by chepyl
hit the y instead of the t...oops

[mommaduck]

She keeps harping on "abandoning the system". There are MANY (and we have them here as well) teachers that "abandon the system" by home educating their own kids. Some of them have said, "after knowing what actually happens there, there is no way in hades my own kids will go there". I got accused the other night of taking money from the district (money the district never got from my kids in the first place). So I'm supposed to send my kids to a school that is KNOWN to do very little teaching and KNOWN to have major social issues? My one child is going to bring in so much money as to turn it all around? It's okay to CRUSH my kid for the good of "society"?

[elegantlion]

There was a 9 yro here who also committed suicide at the school during school hours.

 

That happened last year where I used to live. A 12 or 13 year old boy at a private school, also done at school, in class. We were close enough I heard the sirens. I feel sick even remembering it.

[RegGuheert]

She seriously doesn't know homeschooling parents! She also doesn't know my kids, specifically my oldest kid. #1 I find it sad that she might be limited to those few books (sorry, Gatsby wasn't the greatest, but it was enjoyable). We never read Othello or Plato's Republic in highschool. Highschool hasn't changed much. I looked over the literature lists. They haven't changed much since I was a kid. #2 we LOVE literature here. ANOTHER reason we homeschool is the fact that I learned more from the Public Library as a kid than I ever learned in school. I read more literature on my own time than was available at school. My son reads, listens to, and rereads Homer's and Shakespeare's works. We have realouds here (Shakespeare is a riot to read aloud here). Seriously, she may get paid to read them over and over. We, however, ENJOY reading them over and over.

:iagree: When I read that comment I thought: "This teacher seems focused on how much they personally have read. MomsintheGarden focuses on how much our children read. Isn't that more important?" I can tell you that our children read much, much more than nearly every public school student in America. (And I'm not a reader, so she gets full credit for this!)

[WishboneDawn]

Dawn, your responses have been a joy to read. I wish I could compose thoughtful, civil comments like yours. I've refrained from posting over there because I tend to get too emotional about this topic. It's nice to have somebody like you representing us! :)

 

Thanks. :)

[FO4UR]

Have you read her preschool article? Interesting.

 

I think there is more than school-choice going on with her...she is definitely "poo-pooing" HSing as validation of her own parenting style. I don't think she's going to get anything we can say...though I do hope Pencil Pusher will post her response over there (PLEASE!!!:lol:).

 

It would hurt my feelings to hear my mother talk about me as "an appendage" that needed to be "detached." (and I'm an adult :tongue_smilie:) Kids naturally "detach" on their own time-table...it's called growing up. Not that sending a child to pre-k is a bad thing, but her attitude/verbiage causes me to think there is an element of rejection (of the parental role) in all of this. Perhaps her dd is so clingy b/c she senses this rejection.

 

 

I'm a HSer, and probably a Helicopter parent by her definition, and yet my dc are the most independent little things on this planet.

 

 

I think she has a lot of false assumptions rolling around up there.

[Aubrey]

She seriously doesn't know homeschooling parents! She also doesn't know my kids, specifically my oldest kid. #1 I find it sad that she might be limited to those few books (sorry, Gatsby wasn't the greatest, but it was enjoyable). We never read Othello or Plato's Republic in highschool. Highschool hasn't changed much. I looked over the literature lists. They haven't changed much since I was a kid. #2 we LOVE literature here. ANOTHER reason we homeschool is the fact that I learned more from the Public Library as a kid than I ever learned in school. I read more literature on my own time than was available at school. My son reads, listens to, and rereads Homer's and Shakespeare's works. We have realouds here (Shakespeare is a riot to read aloud here). Seriously, she may get paid to read them over and over. We, however, ENJOY reading them over and over.

 

More than that, even--no matter how deeply you read a book or how many times you read it, you can't change the fact that your students are reading it for the first time. They can only get So Wet on a first reading. So rather than reading Romeo & Juliet a thousand times so that I'm completely disconnected from a first experience, I'd rather read Dante, to see what was influencing Shakespeare & give students a wider experience, explaining to them WHY "love at first sight" equaled "true love" in Shakespeare's plays.

 

And fwiw, I also taught 9th g English. But my classroom was not...like any other. :001_huh: :D

[Aubrey]

Have you read her preschool article? Interesting.

 

I think there is more than school-choice going on with her...she is definitely "poo-pooing" HSing as validation of her own parenting style. I don't think she's going to get anything we can say...though I do hope Pencil Pusher will post her response over there (PLEASE!!!:lol:).

 

Can you post it for me? The link was deleted from this thread before I got here. And while I love talking to you guys, she doesn't really sound worth the energy. ;)

[RegGuheert]

Can you post it for me? The link was deleted from this thread before I got here. And while I love talking to you guys, she doesn't really sound worth the energy. ;)

If she does that, should she preface your comments with: "One of the more ignorant sows at welltrainedmind.com posted the following:"? ;)

 

(For those who haven't been over there, that is how one of the posts from this thread was prefaced over there...)

 

BTW, I also thought your post was outstanding, Pencil Pusher!

[Aubrey]

If she does that, should she preface your comments with: "One of the more ignorant sows at welltrainedmind.com posted the following:"? ;)

 

(For those who haven't been over there, that is how one of the posts from this thread was prefaced over there...)

 

BTW, I also thought your post was outstanding, Pencil Pusher!

 

I'm 9mos pg. If someone calls me a 'sow,' I might lose my mind. :lol:

[FO4UR]

Can you post it for me? The link was deleted from this thread before I got here. And while I love talking to you guys, she doesn't really sound worth the energy. ;)

 

 

by Alexis Novak

I think I could conduct a Parent Teacher Conference whilst in a coma. I sat through hundreds of 6:30 a.m. ones with my same co-teachers until these meetings morphed into a script:

Parent: “I just can’t get Billy to do his homework. He plays video games all night long and then I can’t get him out of bed in the morningâ€.

Teacher 1: “Have you tried taking something away that he cares about? Like his XBOX?â€

Teacher 2: “I think he needs a heart to heart about your expectations.â€

Parent: “What can be done at this point in the semester?â€

Teacher 3: “He can’t do extra credit now. He earned a D. Extra credit is just extra crap. He’ll have to try harder next grading period.â€

Guidance Counselor: “I think Billy can do it, but he has to want it. Here are our recommendations so that Billy can be successful at our school…â€

The parents looked exhausted. Frustrated. They would glare at their teen who stared at his shoes. Or worse, try to defend himself. Some ended with weepy moms pleading for help.

The irony wasn’t lost on me that exasperated parents were asking me, a green 23-year-old new-ish teacher, for parenting advice. I had no freaking idea how to make their kid come to school every morning. My skill set encompassed how to get 15-year-olds jazzed about Romeo and Juliet, how to show them that Eminem was poetry in disguise, and how to follow my only classroom rule, “Be a decent human being.†After that, parents were on their own.

Fast forward a decade.

Now I am the parent. And Punky has a 23-year-old teacher.

Punky, my introverted “Barnacle Babeâ€, became a preschooler three weeks ago. It felt like the little cocoon that I had protectively woven around my sensitive child for three years was bursting open and she was flying out into the big scary world, without me. Even though I love her school. Even though I am confident she has an awesome teacher.

Punky drew a picture that week that she described as, “It’s you Mommy, when your head popped off.†I had to remind myself that I’ve been her devoted teacher for the last 3 years, 3 months and 7 days, and it was time for a team approach. Or the whole village. She was bored. I was frizzle-frazzled-fried. Punky was ready to socialize; she just didn’t know it yet.

On the first day I couldn’t get feedback from the teacher soon enough. I wanted to hear from her the first few hours. Did she make friends? Did she cry all day in the corner? Did she play on the playground? Did I dress her correctly? Did she pee? Did I label everything the right way? My teacher self knew that this kind of communication expectation is straight-up Helicopter Parenting, a style I do not identify with, but, I now understood how anxious parents are about their kids’ school lives. Especially since kids are mum on the subject.

Grilling Punky that first week I never got anything more than, “I like it but I don’t want to go back. I want to stay with you and sissy all the time.†I took no behavioral notes in her folder to be good news.

This week her teacher said, “She sure is coming out of her shellâ€. My heart leapt. Punky’s been holding her head higher; she seems proud that she’s no longer functioning as one of my appendages. Since I haven’t cried to her teacher yet or written her an email a day I’m holding my head higher too. We detached. We really did it.

Next week: I explore why moms in our generation are homeschooling in droves

[FO4UR]

I'm 9mos pg. If someone calls me a 'sow,' I might lose my mind. :lol:

 

 

:lol: and :grouphug:

[RegGuheert]

I'm 9mos pg. If someone calls me a 'sow,' I might lose my mind. :lol:

O.K. So maybe not... :D

 

Best wishes for you and your child(ren) in your upcoming childbirth!

[Impish]

I'm 9mos pg. If someone calls me a 'sow,' I might lose my mind. :lol:

I think 'bovine' is worse.

[Aubrey]

I think 'bovine' is worse.

 

Someone told me recently that she'd found a cute card for me, but put it back after some thought, because the pic on the front was a whale.

 

Turns out, she was worried I'd think she was implying a big baby. So let's add whale to the list. :lol:

 

Really, though, the beauty of the internet is not seeing y'all's eyes pop out when my belly comes around the corner 5min ahead of me. Back to the non-pg subject at hand:

 

I'd like to add that name-calling was not taught in my rhetoric OR my writing classes as a logical approach to argument. Which is redundant, since we've already established that logic is not this lady's area of expertise. :lol:

[unsinkable]

I think 'bovine' is worse.

 

Once upon a time: I was pregnant while teaching and a boy mooed at me as I walked out of the cafeteria. I didn't know who it was and I started crying as soon as I heard so I just kept walking...

[sweetbasil]

by Alexis Novak

I think I could conduct a Parent Teacher Conference whilst in a coma. I sat through hundreds of 6:30 a.m. ones with my same co-teachers until these meetings morphed into a script:

Parent: “I just can’t get Billy to do his homework. He plays video games all night long and then I can’t get him out of bed in the morning”.

Teacher 1: “Have you tried taking something away that he cares about? Like his XBOX?”

Teacher 2: “I think he needs a heart to heart about your expectations.”

Parent: “What can be done at this point in the semester?”

Teacher 3: “He can’t do extra credit now. He earned a D. Extra credit is just extra crap. He’ll have to try harder next grading period.”

Guidance Counselor: “I think Billy can do it, but he has to want it. Here are our recommendations so that Billy can be successful at our school…”

The parents looked exhausted. Frustrated. They would glare at their teen who stared at his shoes. Or worse, try to defend himself. Some ended with weepy moms pleading for help.

The irony wasn’t lost on me that exasperated parents were asking me, a green 23-year-old new-ish teacher, for parenting advice. I had no freaking idea how to make their kid come to school every morning. My skill set encompassed how to get 15-year-olds jazzed about Romeo and Juliet, how to show them that Eminem was poetry in disguise, and how to follow my only classroom rule, “Be a decent human being.” After that, parents were on their own.

Fast forward a decade.

Now I am the parent. And Punky has a 23-year-old teacher.

Punky, my introverted “Barnacle Babe”, became a preschooler three weeks ago. It felt like the little cocoon that I had protectively woven around my sensitive child for three years was bursting open and she was flying out into the big scary world, without me. Even though I love her school. Even though I am confident she has an awesome teacher.

Punky drew a picture that week that she described as, “It’s you Mommy, when your head popped off.” I had to remind myself that I’ve been her devoted teacher for the last 3 years, 3 months and 7 days, and it was time for a team approach. Or the whole village. She was bored. I was frizzle-frazzled-fried. Punky was ready to socialize; she just didn’t know it yet.

On the first day I couldn’t get feedback from the teacher soon enough. I wanted to hear from her the first few hours. Did she make friends? Did she cry all day in the corner? Did she play on the playground? Did I dress her correctly? Did she pee? Did I label everything the right way? My teacher self knew that this kind of communication expectation is straight-up Helicopter Parenting, a style I do not identify with, but, I now understood how anxious parents are about their kids’ school lives. Especially since kids are mum on the subject.

Grilling Punky that first week I never got anything more than, “I like it but I don’t want to go back. I want to stay with you and sissy all the time.” I took no behavioral notes in her folder to be good news.

This week her teacher said, “She sure is coming out of her shell”. My heart leapt. Punky’s been holding her head higher; she seems proud that she’s no longer functioning as one of my appendages. Since I haven’t cried to her teacher yet or written her an email a day I’m holding my head higher too. We detached. We really did it.

Next week: I explore why moms in our generation are homeschooling in droves

 

Her post makes me so sad. What she calls "helicopter parenting" I call normal, healthy child-parent attachment. Her child's yearnings to be with her family are natural and good, and she's forcing her child away from her before she's ready.

 

It seems the term "helicopter parenting" gets thrown around by those who are the polar opposite -- but equally extreme.

 

The point of being close to my children now is to provide the stable foundation from which they will eventually set off on their own. Even wild animals don't toss their babies out of the nest until they can forage on their own, yet we should push away our 3 yr old?

 

 

edited to add: She teaches Eminem as "poetry in disguise"? Seriously? I know she probably thinks she's hip to teach Eminem over Tennyson, but she just provided reason #76,549 to homeschool.

Edited September 23, 2011 by sweetbasil

[amsunshine]

Have you read her preschool article? Interesting.

 

I think there is more than school-choice going on with her...she is definitely "poo-pooing" HSing as validation of her own parenting style. I don't think she's going to get anything we can say...though I do hope Pencil Pusher will post her response over there (PLEASE!!!:lol:).

 

It would hurt my feelings to hear my mother talk about me as "an appendage" that needed to be "detached." (and I'm an adult :tongue_smilie:) Kids naturally "detach" on their own time-table...it's called growing up. Not that sending a child to pre-k is a bad thing, but her attitude/verbiage causes me to think there is an element of rejection (of the parental role) in all of this. Perhaps her dd is so clingy b/c she senses this rejection.

 

 

I'm a HSer, and probably a Helicopter parent by her definition, and yet my dc are the most independent little things on this planet.

 

 

I think she has a lot of false assumptions rolling around up there.

 

:iagree: Not only that, but a little earlier, she wrote about parent teacher conferences that she has conducted and it seems to be her opinion that most parents are idiots. She's an interesting character. I think she had a crush on her 9th grade English teacher and was too busy brushing her hair and primping herself in the rest of her classes to pay attention or take notes, which is why one of her other teachers got exasperated with her.

Edited September 23, 2011 by amsunshine

[Impish]

Once upon a time: I was pregnant while teaching and a boy mooed at me as I walked out of the cafeteria. I didn't know who it was and I started crying as soon as I heard so I just kept walking...

Awwww :grouphug:

 

Wolf beeps at me when I climb in and out of bed. You know, imitating a the signal of a large truck backing up?

 

I've offered to shave his head as he sleeps. He's quit beeping. For now.