S/O Implied Swearing and Euphemisms

[momma aimee]

I grew up being told that people with weak vocabulary, weak communication skills, and weak minds (sorry :blushing:) had to resort to using those terms, because they were unable to communicate in a more proper/effective way. :001_smile:

 

THIS

 

I admit i slip -- but I expect more out of myself and my boys -- cussing is just sloppy speech and sloppy speech is not ok

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I don't see "Oh my goodness" as a direct reference to God like I do "Oh my gosh".

 

I grew up hearing my mom say, "Goodness gracious" everytime she was surprised so I guess that's where I got it :001_smile:

 

My usual surprise reaction is "Holy Cow!" unless I'm in a Hispanic mood and then I'll say "Santa Vaca!" :tongue_smilie:

 

But aren't both words taking the place of God in the exclamation?

[Murphy101]

But aren't both words taking the place of God in the exclamation?

 

I don't think either are taking the place of god and some people need to get over their own issues instead of projecting it to others.

[simka2]

I think there is a time and a place for swearing. Done properly it can almost be a work of art. :lol:

 

If one of my kids swears I give them credit for having a means to creatively express themselves. I don't get my panties in a knot over it.

 

That said, my youngest is 14. I wouldn't have been so accommodating when my kids were younger.

 

 

:iagree:I have no problem with either in the right situations.

[Orthodox6]

Here's for you, Trish:

 

 

http://www.william-shakespeare.org.uk/a1-shakespearean-insults-generator.htm

 

:D

 

 

 

I bite my thumb at thee! (Shakespeare)

 

:D

[Chelli]

But aren't both words taking the place of God in the exclamation?

 

I guess. But the word "gosh" is specifically referenced in any dictionary I've ever read for being a replacement for God in a phrase, whereas "goodness" is a word in it's own right, not specifically used just to replace a reference to God.

[forty-two]

What's wrong with expressing displeasure or surprise in a more polite way? Isn't that the reason we say "excuse me" instead of "move?"

 

I'd rather hear the little old lady say, "Well I'll BE" instead of "I'll be d______!" And I'd rather hear my kids say "what the hey" instead of the more colorful alternatives. That's the whole reason behind the substitution, it's more polite.

 

I'm not attaching any moral judgment to any of this, just what can be said in polite company and what should be avoided.

 

I'm much more bothered by the use of the Lord's name in vain.

Oh, I agree that there's nothing wrong with using more polite language in polite society (or wherever). That was directed at people who think it is morally wrong to use the "real" word but have no problem using the polite version.

 

Of course, being consistent there leads to not using *anything* to express surprise/displeasure, which per this thread apparently some people do :001_huh:.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I don't think either are taking the place of god and some people need to get over their own issues instead of projecting it to others.

 

I actually agree with you.

 

I am asking because I can see how someone can say "goodness" and "gosh" are both fine or both not, per their standards, but I am legitimately confused as to how "goodness" is okay but "gosh" isn't.

[KidsHappen]

My father was a sailor. I married a sailor. I cuss like a sailor. Now when I am in mixed company that may be offended by the use of actual cuss words I do refrain from using them but that is about the only concession I am willing to make in the language department. I do say OMG! and double U, Tee, Eff, mate and other expressions to that affect and I allow my children to do the same. And quite frankly I am not too pleased with the language police and if someone should say something to me about, well then they are probably going to get an ear full.

[livingnlearning]

My father was a sailor. I married a sailor. I cuss like a sailor. Now when I am in mixed company that may be offended by the use of actual cuss words I do refrain from using them but that is about the only concession I am willing to make in the language department. I do say OMG! and double U, Tee, Eff, mate and other expressions to that affect and I allow my children to do the same. And quite frankly I am not too pleased with the language police and if someone should say something to me about, well then they are probably going to get an ear full.

 

I wasn't impressed either but then I reminded myself that opinions are like a&*#*s. :D

[swellmomma]

I wasn't impressed either but then I reminded myself that opinions are like a&*#*s. :D

 

 

:lol:

[Chelli]

I actually agree with you.

 

I am asking because I can see how someone can say "goodness" and "gosh" are both fine or both not, per their standards, but I am legitimately confused as to how "goodness" is okay but "gosh" isn't.

 

I answered you in post 58.

 

BTW, my views are strictly for our family and how we have interpreted our faith.

 

I don't hold others to our standards, although I have asked a group of teenagers at the park to stop dropping f-bombs every five seconds because my kids were playing right there next to them.

 

I would NEVER presume to tell an adult that they needed to change their language unless they sincerely asked my opinion. My job is not to be the entire world's Jiminy Cricket.

 

I was merely trying to answer the OP's original question not pass judgment on any other family or person's stance on cussing. I hope that no one took my comments that way. :001_smile:

[Melissa in CA]

I haven't read all of the posts (only read page 1) so forgive me if this thread has turned a corner and my thoughts are no longer relevant, but I personally despise being around people who act like everyones Word Police. Arg!

 

I do not cuss. Just don't. Now I will, on occasion, say the word 'crap' so I suppose that's a curse word, but pretty mild in comparison to most. I use all sorts of euphemisms though...as do my kids.

 

I have zero problem with colorful euphemistic speech. Zero problem with my boys saying "dang", "gosh", "darn" and the like. I don't particularly like "frickin" or "sucks" or any word with God in it, but they don't say those so it's a non issue here.

 

What I REALLY dislike are people (particularly holier-than-thou family members) correcting my kids when they say something as simple as "dang" or "oh my gosh". I mean, cmon' people, words are fun. Language is fun! If you are going to get your knickers all in an uproar over a simple phrase like, "Dang, that was a good shot!" Then I feel sorry for you. I truly do. You need to get over. :001_huh: There is so much MORE to worry about in this world than hearing the word "dang". :confused:

 

My older boys had MAJOR culture shock when they got out into the work force. I mean even their bosses threw the "F" word around! If they decided to get offended every time they heard a bad word, they would be mighty miserable guys. Instead, they learned to just love the people for who they are, not who they THINK they should be. Makes living in this world a whole lot easier. :D My DH does not cuss at all, not even euphemisms, and he works with high level officials who cuss like sailors. They lose his respect because he thinks they should hold themselves at a higher standard when at work, but he doesn't let it offend him. Being offended by words not even aimed at you shows a weakness of character in my opinion. Buck up, I say! :lol:

 

Can you tell this topic hits close to home for me? Haha (again, back to the holier-than-thou family members. Arg. ;))

 

We all have standards of some kind, and everyone has their line in the sand somewhere. Getting upset because someone's line is not as conservative as yours is just plain silly.

[jujsky]

I read a report not too long ago (wish I could find it) that said swearing in all its full glory relieves stress more than substituting words. I know I feel a lot better after I let loose with a few F-bombs in unique combinations. :D

[Caterpiller]

I don't like them when used towards other people. "you ___." or "What a fat ____" or "Little ____ " Or even, "Whats up B___" I just dont think its nice to talk to people that way. I hate it. Using them in other ways doesn't bother me though.

[Ginevra]

I don't mind soft substitutions and I use them probably every day. I do know people who consider these equal to the actual words and I may temper my word choices in that case. But, on the whole, I do say things like, "Cheese and Rice!" or "Oh, Fudgesicles!" I've used a couple of foreign-language cuss words from time to time. :tongue_smilie:

 

There are actually a couple of non-cusswords that I am more bothered by when my kids use them: "sucks" and "hate" for example.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I think most are fine, a few of the edgier ones or ones that still involve swearing should probably be given some thought before using.

 

One my son has heard recently is Mother Canucker. He knows it's silly but I've also told him not to say it around other people because it just sounds too much like the word it's replacing. People will immediately think of it. I also don't want him offending any Canadians (though it was from a Canadian that he heard it)!

[Daisy]

There are only a few conditions under which I would request that someone stop swearing...

 

1. They are a child and we are in an academic setting (as was the case with the previous thread).

 

2. I'm in a public place with my children and cannot get away from the person swearing. For example, I was paying for purchases at Target and had two teenage girls behind me whose language was worse than any dock-side tavern.

 

The rest of the time, I'd simply remove myself and my children from the environment.

[JeneralMom]

I was raised (by a former English teacher) with the same reasoning. She insisted that people who swear, or who rely heavily on slang/jargon, possess limited vocabularies and limited creative speech.

 

 

See I was raised with a completely different mindset. My Dad, who is brilliant, speaks 4 languages, MENSA IQ, leader in his field, sought-after expert witness, always taught us that it was close-minded, intellectually inferior people who gave words so much power that they became afraid of them. Yes, he was being insulting but you also have to understand that a large portion of extremely well educated, fully verbally capable people have no problem with swearing.

 

I am teaching my kids to not swear because it can be insulting to other people not because the words themselves are bad. I do swear (mostly when I am driving) and it does not reflect my intelligence or ability to carry on a conversation.

[Mommy22alyns]

I just don't have a real problem with soft substitutions. If my girls try them (which is extremely rare) I just suggest that they say something nicer.

[Trish]

I guess. But the word "gosh" is specifically referenced in any dictionary I've ever read for being a replacement for God in a phrase, whereas "goodness" is a word in it's own right, not specifically used just to replace a reference to God.

 

Locally, Gosh is a restaurant.

 

God is actually more intimately connected with goodness, I would think. After all, he's All-Good, not All-Gosh.

 

Good Golly, Miss Molly.

[eternalknot]

See I was raised with a completely different mindset. My Dad, who is brilliant, speaks 4 languages, MENSA IQ, leader in his field, sought-after expert witness, always taught us that it was close-minded, intellectually inferior people who gave words so much power that they became afraid of them. Yes, he was being insulting but you also have to understand that a large portion of extremely well educated, fully verbally capable people have no problem with swearing.

 

I am teaching my kids to not swear because it can be insulting to other people not because the words themselves are bad. I do swear (mostly when I am driving) and it does not reflect my intelligence or ability to carry on a conversation.

 

I was raised the same way.

 

I also come from an immigrant community in which cursing is somewhat more normal, just because ... well, when you learn a language you learn words before you learn context LOL. Much of the time, anyhow. For example you hear, repeat, use the word "Sh!t" before you learn that it's not appropriate to say in certain social situations or around certain crowds, and whatnot. You learn it to mean "Oh, how unfortunate" in any context, so you don't think twice about saying it in front your young kids' friends upon hearing they lost their tennis match (true story :blush:.) Good thing those kids had understanding parents. And now we know LOL.

 

I tell my kids that many words are offensive to others, so we don't use them in polite conversation. I also allow them that sometimes no other words will do, such as when slamming one's finger in the door and screaming four letter expletives. It really does make it feel better right away than does a string of euphemisms like "gingersnaps" and "oh, sugars!" - at least for me.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Couple of days ago one of the kids from my dd's class at school exchanged phone numbers with her. I didn't know about the exchange of numbers, wasn't expecting this...

 

The little girl called, my ringer was on silent, never heard the call come in. A little bit later I see this strange new number and a voice mail message on the phone.

 

What the other little girl didn't realize is that she left her phone turned on and the voicemail recording just kept going and going..basically she set it on the counter and life as (what I think must be) normal in their house went on...

 

Oh really cute..(not). There will be no playdates. There will not be any friendship outside the school No No NO.

 

The voice mail starts like something out of Leave It To Beaver and Eddie Haskell..

 

"Hello, is Ms. Suzie able to call me back, this is Misty. Thank you."

 

and then the fireworks of this kid swearing like a sailor starts, telling her mom off..xyz PDQ purple---

 

lol

 

Now don't me wrong, there's a time and place to clean it up out of pure respect for the folks around you...but seriously, when the gap of real and pretend are that wide...

 

There's trouble. That's just not right.

[wapiti]

See I was raised with a completely different mindset. My Dad, who is brilliant, speaks 4 languages, MENSA IQ, leader in his field, sought-after expert witness, always taught us that it was close-minded, intellectually inferior people who gave words so much power that they became afraid of them. Yes, he was being insulting but you also have to understand that a large portion of extremely well educated, fully verbally capable people have no problem with swearing.

This is absolutely true. (I'll qualify by saying that context matters.)

[Ria]

 

Now don't me wrong, there's a time and place to clean it up out of pure respect for the folks around you...but seriously, when the gap of real and pretend are that wide...

 

There's trouble. That's just not right.

 

I dunno. I'm very nice and polite most of the time, but you probably wouldn't want to drive with me at rush hour. I'm just sayin'. :lol:

[Melissa in CA]

Couple of days ago one of the kids from my dd's class at school exchanged phone numbers with her. I didn't know about the exchange of numbers, wasn't expecting this...

 

The little girl called, my ringer was on silent, never heard the call come in. A little bit later I see this strange new number and a voice mail message on the phone.

 

What the other little girl didn't realize is that she left her phone turned on and the voicemail recording just kept going and going..basically she set it on the counter and life as (what I think must be) normal in their house went on...

 

Oh really cute..(not). There will be no playdates. There will not be any friendship outside the school No No NO.

 

The voice mail starts like something out of Leave It To Beaver and Eddie Haskell..

 

"Hello, is Ms. Suzie able to call me back, this is Misty. Thank you."

 

and then the fireworks of this kid swearing like a sailor starts, telling her mom off..xyz PDQ purple---

 

lol

 

Now don't me wrong, there's a time and place to clean it up out of pure respect for the folks around you...but seriously, when the gap of real and pretend are that wide...

 

There's trouble. That's just not right.

 

Yikes. I was definitely selective in who my boys hung out with on a regular basis. I would steer clear of a child who curses like that to her parents, too. Can they be acquaintences at school, sure. Buddy buddies? Nope! Just one of those drawn in the sand standards of mine. To me it's not so much the cursing, but the total disrespect shown toward the parents. Not cool. Even if the parents have no problem with it, I do. ;)

[SKL]

Let's just say that if my kids got a nickel for every time they said, "Mommy, is that a swear word?" [as opposed to just a rude word], they'd be able to afford a lot of candy at the corner store!

 

I am a tell-it-like-it-is kind of person. However, there's a time and a place. I was very tired one morning at Sunday School (grown-up class) and I believe I let "pi$$ed off" slip out unwittingly (to everyone else's delight), but generally I save my cussing for private moments of extreme frustration. And I've taught my kids about the "time and place" rule. They break them at their peril (so far they have not).

 

I have been known to use "fartsickles" and "crappadoodles," but only in private.

 

My kids say "what the heck." And I've told them that it's not advisable to say that at school or church. I think they have enough sense to make the distinction. They aren't allowed to say "butt" or "bootie" at school either, but they can say them at home. (Not sure why "bottom" is a much more sophisticated term, but whatever.)

[SKL]

I dunno. I'm very nice and polite most of the time, but you probably wouldn't want to drive with me at rush hour. I'm just sayin'. :lol:

 

From a recent car trip discussion:

 

"Mommy why did you say 'F--- You?"

 

There ensued a half-hour explanation for why nobody should cut me off from the on-ramp and force me to get lost in the bad neighborhood a half mile up the freeway.

 

And after finally figuring out how to get to our destination,

 

"Now do you understand why I said F--- You?"

 

"Yes."

[Chelli]

Locally, Gosh is a restaurant.

 

God is actually more intimately connected with goodness, I would think. After all, he's All-Good, not All-Gosh.

 

Good Golly, Miss Molly.

 

My only point was that "gosh" is only ever used to replace God in a phrase. You can't gosh, you can't go pick up a gosh, you can't act goshly, you can't have a gosh cat, etc.

 

However, you can act with goodness. There is an idea of goodness. In other words, you can use the word goodness in a context other than speaking of or replacing God. So it is not a euphemism strictly replacing God's name like gosh is.

 

BTW, is Gosh a good place to eat? :D

[Tangerine]

Maybe it's short for "Land O' Goshen!".

[Mrs Mungo]

My only point was that "gosh" is only ever used to replace God in a phrase. You can't gosh, you can't go pick up a gosh, you can't act goshly, you can't have a gosh cat, etc.

 

However, you can act with goodness. There is an idea of goodness. In other words, you can use the word goodness in a context other than speaking of or replacing God. So it is not a euphemism strictly replacing God's name like gosh is.

 

BTW, is Gosh a good place to eat? :D

 

One of my friends growing up was not allowed to say "oh my goodness" because it was supposedly derived from "goddess." She was allowed to say, "oh my gosh."

[Ginevra]

One of my friends growing up was not allowed to say "oh my goodness" because it was supposedly derived from "goddess." She was allowed to say, "oh my gosh."

 

We were not permitted to say, "Knock on Wood," because this is derived from a pagan ritual. :rolleyes: Oh, Wait! I think that was at the Christian School, though, not at home. We did have a Christmas tree, however. ;)

[stripe]

I like euphisms, and my favorite of all time was uttered by a nun.

 

Oh, fiddlesticks doesn't stand for another f-word just because they start with f.

[Daisy Mommy]

I grew up being told that people with weak vocabulary, weak communication skills, and weak minds (sorry :blushing:) had to resort to using those terms, because they were unable to communicate in a more proper/effective way.

 

So no, for myself and my dc, they are never appropriate to use.

I'm not using that as a blanket condemnation of those that do, just answering the question you asked. :001_smile:

 

that's how I usually feel

 

I have however come up with some pretty creative sentences when I get so frustrated that I can't think clearly...or I stub my toe...or hit my finger with the screwdriver that I'm trying to use in the place of a hammer putting a picture frame up....usually it turns into a more humorous situation because of that and eases the tension.

 

I like the Dirty mouth orbits commercials...they are inspiring...:001_smile:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I answered you in post 58.

 

BTW, my views are strictly for our family and how we have interpreted our faith.

 

I don't hold others to our standards, although I have asked a group of teenagers at the park to stop dropping f-bombs every five seconds because my kids were playing right there next to them.

 

I would NEVER presume to tell an adult that they needed to change their language unless they sincerely asked my opinion. My job is not to be the entire world's Jiminy Cricket.

 

I was merely trying to answer the OP's original question not pass judgment on any other family or person's stance on cussing. I hope that no one took my comments that way. :001_smile:

 

I posted that before I saw #58. I liked your answer, and although I see it differently, it makes perfect sense.

[Laurie4b]

I don't find the need to research to find the origins of otherwise innocent expressions and I don't think it's wrong to use ejaculations in general, so I am fine with "replacements." For most, I didn't even know they were replacements when I learned them.

 

As a Christian, I find the issue to be similar to the one St. Paul addressed when he told people they didn't have to ask about the origins of meat offered by a host--as to whether it had been offered to a pagan diety. I don't need to inquire about the origin of each and every thing I do or tradition I follow.

 

Nor, in the other thread, would I fill in the What the ____ with the f -word. What I say and hear all around me is "What the heck?" And I don't think there's a problem with that.

 

The issue to me is to avoid saying things that are generally considered rude or offensive. I think that is polite in any culture. It doesn't really matter to me that saying "pooh" in our culture is okay, but sh___ is a cuss word. It's still okay to avoid culturally offensive words or phrases even if there is no rhyme nor reason to it.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

There are only a few conditions under which I would request that someone stop swearing...

 

1. They are a child and we are in an academic setting (as was the case with the previous thread).

 

2. I'm in a public place with my children and cannot get away from the person swearing. For example, I was paying for purchases at Target and had two teenage girls behind me whose language was worse than any dock-side tavern.

 

The rest of the time, I'd simply remove myself and my children from the environment.

 

 

That was not the case - the child wasn't swearing.

[IsabelC]

it was close-minded, intellectually inferior people who gave words so much power that they became afraid of them. Yes, he was being insulting but you also have to understand that a large portion of extremely well educated, fully verbally capable people have no problem with swearing.

 

I am teaching my kids to not swear because it can be insulting to other people not because the words themselves are bad. I do swear (mostly when I am driving) and it does not reflect my intelligence or ability to carry on a conversation.

 

Yeah, that. I certainly wouldn't categorise anti swearers as 'intellectually inferior', but I strongly agree that degree and frequency of swearing is to do with how you are brought up and how conservative you are, not intelligence or vocabulary. I mean, seriously, how often do you think "now what is that thing that plants do with sunlight, um, photo... photo... oh bother I can't remember the word so I'll just say f*ck instead"? There are also plenty of reasons people may swear purposefully, eg some rad fems are into 'reclaiming' c*nt as an empowering word. (Not my cuppa herbal tea, but I can see there's some thinking behind it.)

 

It's interesting that we don't have any forbidden words in our house, and yet I have never heard my children utter any of the big vulgar words. I have told them that there are some expressions we need to be careful with because, while not actually wrong per se, they offend some people. But the kids don't seem to have any interest. Maybe this will change as they get older! I wonder whether making a big deal about it is part of what causes kids to swear.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Hotdrink