s/o weight change since marriage - "obligation" to maintain appearance

[Abigail4476]

Okay. :confused: I don't get it, though. I'm kind of big on values like doing something particularly to please my husband, because I perceive that as a loving thing to do. I mean, I could eat cereal for dinner every night, so why I am I making Grilled Chicken and Pineapple tonight? Because dh embodies, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach." His love language is service and he would feel unloved if I said, "Hungry? There's a bowl and a box of Cheerios. Have at it."

 

And *I* don't have to wear *ANY* underwear to be sexy, so THERE! :lol:

 

:lol::lol:

[myfunnybunch]

This is a mindset I just don't get. WHY would you not want to please your dh if you can do within reason?

 

I've seen versions of this question throughout this thread, and it bothers me a little. (So I'm not picking on you particularly, Scarlett. :) )

 

The question for me is: Do we (men and women) have an *obligation* to please our spouses? Is it a marital duty to look the way they like us to look? Saying I do not feel an obligation to look a certain way is not the same as saying I don't want my husband to be pleased or that I don't want to be attractive to him.

 

I wore a dress today, and my dh liked it. A lot. :D But I wore it because I wanted to wear a dress. I will be more likely to wear it again because I know dh likes it. I really do want my husband to be happy and to find me attractive.

 

But I would never wear a dress just because he expected me to or because I felt somehow obligated to appear a certain way. Not feeling obligated to please someone doesn't mean we don't try to please them, it just means that we do it because we want to.

 

Maybe I am a little sensitive about this issue because I have a friend who was married to a man who expected her to dress a certain way, look a certain way, not get over a particular weight, because he felt it was a reflection on him. She couldn't run to the store without makeup even if she wanted to. He really felt that she was obligated to play the part he'd married her for, his idea of "doctor's wife". That's who I think of when I think of a spouse being obligated to maintain a particular appearance.

 

Cat

[Embassy]

:iagree: I would not have married someone because he fit all the logical requirement in a mate, but did not attract me. DH had met the rational requirements, but he also knocked me out with chemistry.

 

:iagree: But attraction and chemistry don't have to stem from physical appearance.

[mommaduck]

Appearance is too complicated to attach a marital expectation onto it that is valid. It can be realated to health issues, mental health issues, complicated circumstances that require understanding and compassion.

 

What IS important is the character of the spouses as life enfolds; how they handle changes in their own and their spouses appearance.

 

:iagree:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I've seen versions of this question throughout this thread, and it bothers me a little. (So I'm not picking on you particularly, Scarlett. :) )

 

The question for me is: Do we (men and women) have an *obligation* to please our spouses? Is it a marital duty to look the way they like us to look? Saying I do not feel an obligation to look a certain way is not the same as saying I don't want my husband to be pleased or that I don't want to be attractive to him.

 

I wore a dress today, and my dh liked it. A lot. :D But I wore it because I wanted to wear a dress. I will be more likely to wear it again because I know dh likes it. I really do want my husband to be happy and to find me attractive.

 

But I would never wear a dress just because he expected me to or because I felt somehow obligated to appear a certain way. Not feeling obligated to please someone doesn't mean we don't try to please them, it just means that we do it because we want to.

 

Maybe I am a little sensitive about this issue because I have a friend who was married to a man who expected her to dress a certain way, look a certain way, not get over a particular weight, because he felt it was a reflection on him. She couldn't run to the store without makeup even if she wanted to. He really felt that she was obligated to play the part he'd married her for, his idea of "doctor's wife". That's who I think of when I think of a spouse being obligated to maintain a particular appearance.

 

Cat

 

 

The friend you spoke of and her situation is extreme, imo. (I'm not saying that it is uncommon, just that that viewpoint is extreme.)

 

I had a friend whose dh treated her in that way, too. They ended up divorced. I don't see me doing what I know my dh likes in any way similar to that, though. He does not withhold love/affection/approval if I DON'T wear what he likes/wear make-up, etc. It is just a matter of, "I love him and I want to do what he likes" (because those things don't conflict with my likes/values. He likes maxi-dresses, too, but I'm too short to pull them off. I don't wear those. Ohwell.)

[MBM]

Okay. :confused: I don't get it, though. I'm kind of big on values like doing something particularly to please my husband, because I perceive that as a loving thing to do. I mean, I could eat cereal for dinner every night, so why I am I making Grilled Chicken and Pineapple tonight? Because dh embodies, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach." His love language is service and he would feel unloved if I said, "Hungry? There's a bowl and a box of Cheerios. Have at it."

 

And *I* don't have to wear *ANY* underwear to be sexy, so THERE! :lol:

 

No fair, Quill. You already admitted to being part of the sexy undies club! :D

 

I would just be uncomfortable and feel dishonest to myself if I dressed in a particular way just for my husband. I think I tend to have more of a feminist bent and independent streak than most on these boards, though.

[eewaggie99]

Haven't read all the responses, but I do try to maintain my appearance within reason. I feel better when I'm within a certain range and I exercise regularly. I want to keep myself healthy, but I also know that I like looking nice for my husband. If my dh or I dramatically gained weight, I would be concerned for health. Dh is still as skinny as he was when we married but he doesn't exercise regularly, and this definitely concerns me.

[LidiyaDawn]

Yes, because if you had been repulsed when you met him in person you would not be married.

 

 

Do you think that nobody has ever loved and married someone whom they didn't find "physically attractive"? There are WAY more important things than outward appearance.

[leeannpal]

Okay. :confused: I don't get it, though. I'm kind of big on values like doing something particularly to please my husband, because I perceive that as a loving thing to do. I mean, I could eat cereal for dinner every night, so why I am I making Grilled Chicken and Pineapple tonight? Because dh embodies, "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach." His love language is service and he would feel unloved if I said, "Hungry? There's a bowl and a box of Cheerios. Have at it."

 

And *I* don't have to wear *ANY* underwear to be sexy, so THERE! :lol:

I hope my husband is pleased that I cook dinner for him, fold his laundry, laugh at his jokes and tell him I love him. there are many ways of doing something to please your spouse.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I hope my husband is pleased that I cook dinner for him, fold his laundry, laugh at his jokes and tell him I love him. there are many ways of doing something to please your spouse.

 

 

But if you are willing to do those things to please him, why wouldn't you extend that to your physical appearance as well? :confused:

 

I don't really see the difference.

[leeannpal]

Haven't read all the responses, but I do try to maintain my appearance within reason. I feel better when I'm within a certain range and I exercise regularly. I want to keep myself healthy, but I also know that I like looking nice for my husband. If my dh or I dramatically gained weight, I would be concerned for health. Dh is still as skinny as he was when we married but he doesn't exercise regularly, and this definitely concerns me.

 

Why is being overweight always equated with poor health? Serious question-does it sound more virtuous to say that you maintain your weight, work out and eat vegetarian because of health rather than because you care what others think of your appearance?

 

The reason I am asking is because I have a couple of health issues that are not caused by weight. I would not consider myself healthy. And I wasn't healthy at age 25 when I was 25 pounds lighter (5"1" and 120 lbs.) It bothers me that people just assume that if you are overwieght you are unhealthy and if you are small, you must be healthy.

Edited August 11, 2011 by leeannpal

[Impish]

I think it is about health AND appearance. And I do not think it needs to go to extremes. It is more about what your spouse and you want than some set in stone standard of beauty. Weight, cleanliness, neat, clean reasonably stylish clothing. It is not just weight but weight sure seems to be the trigger that sets people off on this thread. In the USA a high percentage of people are overweight. I wonder what percentage of those really CAN'T lose the weight.

Honestly, the 'reasonably stylish clothing' loses me completely. I wouldn't know stylish if it bit me on the butt, tripped me, and commenced kicking me in the head. :lol: I'm happy if my clothes are clean, without holes that aren't meant to be there. I don't think that *anything* looks good on me, my body is a disaster of different sizing, and don't have the first foggiest notion of how to decipher what clothing would be more flattering and why. I sooooo need 'What Not To Wear'.

 

Poor Wolf.

[leeannpal]

But if you are willing to do those things to please him, why wouldn't you extend that to your physical appearance as well? :confused:

 

I don't really see the difference.

In my case, I have a couple of health issues-PCOS and Fibromyalgia that make losing weight and exercising very difficult. I am willing to do all those other things because I can.

 

At what point would you be unwilling to do something for your husband to please him?

[UnsinkableKristen]

In my case, I have a couple of health issues-PCOS and Fibromyalgia that make losing weight and exercising very difficult. I am willing to do all those other things because I can.

 

At what point would you be unwilling to do something for your husband to please him?

 

It sounds like you are unable to do those things, therefore it's not an issue. I think the issue is when you CAN but CHOOSE not to.

 

I would be unwilling to do something that I felt was unreasonable or disrespectful, but as of yet there has never been anything like that.

 

I try to do things that I know he likes, and he tries to do things I like. I wear ball caps frequently because I know he likes them - even though they make my head itch. He grows his beard out because he knows I love a scruffy man - even though it makes his face itch. Conversely, he doesn't complain about me not wearing ball caps enough because he knows they make my head itch and I don't complain when he shaves the beard off because I know it makes his face itch. It seems that most of our issues are itch related.... :D.

 

Anyways, this is what I'm saying. Things that are reasonable, respectful, and not impossible just shouldn't be a big deal to give on every now and then. I think that if your spouse is asking you to change something fundamental about yourself or making you feel bad for not doing something you just can't do, then the issue isn't "you pleasing him" but something much deeper.

[lionfamily1999]

Because to "adore" means to love everything about a person and to hold them in the highest esteem. You can not have high esteem for someone who doesn't care enough about THEMSELVES to take a bath at least every few days let alone EVER. 0_0

 

You may still love them and want to help them, but you could not honestly say you love everything about them which is what adoring is.

You might not, but you can't speak for everyone.

I think it is about health AND appearance. And I do not think it needs to go to extremes. It is more about what your spouse and you want than some set in stone standard of beauty. Weight, cleanliness, neat, clean reasonably stylish clothing. It is not just weight but weight sure seems to be the trigger that sets people off on this thread. In the USA a high percentage of people are overweight. I wonder what percentage of those really CAN'T lose the weight.

I guess it depends on how you define "can't." I mean, I could lose weight in theory, so could a lot of the women I know, but thus far it's a "can't" and ... crazy ... dh doesn't care.

I am in this for keeps. And my basic feelings of love, esteem, and caring don't change with a diagnosis (or a lack of one). He is himself, even if something is wrong and making him act otherwise.

:iagree:

My love for my dh won't change either if there is something wrong with him even if he won't ever get better. And if he stopped bathing trust me there would be something wrong with him....but don't you see men and woman who just stop taking care of themselves COMPLETELY? You think there is something wrong with every. single. one of them?

I don't think the full burden is on them. IOW, either there's something wrong with them or there's something wrong with their marraige. I've seen women give up because they didn't have a REASON to try. The same way a child gives up trying when things feel hopeless. Well, if it seems like there's no pleasing your spouse then you quit. You might not move out or divorce, you just die on the inside and give up.

Yes, I do. I think they are tired, or depressed, or unsupported, but I don't believe healthy women stop taking care of themselves for no reason any more than I believe men just decide to quit making money.

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I didn't snag him due to my looks, health or stylish clothing. I was extremely poor (living on food bank food), I was almost an invalid at the time and my clothing has never been anything close to trendy. So no, I didn't feel any obligation to keep him with any of that since that's not what attracted him to me in the first place.

 

I have always wanted to be more financially secure (together we've gone through both richer and poorer) and I've wanted to be healthier (we've gone through sickness and health but more of it sickness in the last 18 years) and I've wanted to look better (but since that's closely tied to my health I can't say that that's been all that great either). For the first time in 18 years I think I'm turning a corner where I am healthier and I've been told by my MIL and others that I look a lot better but I don't see him loving me any more than he did 6 months ago. He is happy for me, though because he knows that it is better for me.

[LidiyaDawn]

It sounds like you are unable to do those things, therefore it's not an issue. I think the issue is when you CAN but CHOOSE not to.

 

I would be unwilling to do something that I felt was unreasonable or disrespectful, but as of yet there has never been anything like that.

 

I try to do things that I know he likes, and he tries to do things I like. I wear ball caps frequently because I know he likes them - even though they make my head itch. He grows his beard out because he knows I love a scruffy man - even though it makes his face itch. Conversely, he doesn't complain about me not wearing ball caps enough because he knows they make my head itch and I don't complain when he shaves the beard off because I know it makes his face itch. It seems that most of our issues are itch related.... :D.

 

Anyways, this is what I'm saying. Things that are reasonable, respectful, and not impossible just shouldn't be a big deal to give on every now and then. I think that if your spouse is asking you to change something fundamental about yourself or making you feel bad for not doing something you just can't do, then the issue isn't "you pleasing him" but something much deeper.

 

I don't think it's "reasonable" or "respectful" to ask your spouse to do things to themselves that cause physical discomfort. If hats made me itch, I would not wear them - regardless of whether dh thought they looked good. He likes high heel shoes - guess what? They hurt my feet and I run a huge risk of falling on my face in high heels, so I don't wear them.. and he'd never ask it of me, just as I wouldn't ask him to do something that caused him physical discomfort, pain, etc.

 

 

 

I don't get the focus on appearance throughout this thread. I really don't. I've never cared how my dh looked on the outside - I love him for who he IS.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

I don't get the focus on appearance throughout this thread. I really don't. I've never cared how my dh looked on the outside - I love him for who he IS.

 

I agree with you there.

[Ginevra]

Why is being overweight always equated with poor health? Serious question-does it sound more virtuous to say that you maintain your weight, work out and eat vegetarian because of health rather than because you care what others think of your appearance?

 

The reason I am asking is because I have a couple of health issues that are not caused by weight. I would not consider myself healthy. And I wasn't healthy at age 25 when I was 25 pounds lighter (5"1" and 120 lbs.) It bothers me that people just assume that if you are overwieght you are unhealthy and if you are small, you must be healthy.

 

I don't think it sounds more virtuous either way. I work out for my health AND my appearance. I lift weights because it builds bone density AND because I like to be able to wave my arm with out "residual wave" for an extra 3 seconds. I like a flat abdomen because it supports my lower back and prevents back strain AND because it looks great in a sundress.

 

I totally agree that you can be thin and unhealthy. However, excessive storage of fat is an abnormal physiological state. Western civilization includes a spectacular availability of every imaginable (and unimaginable) kind of food, natural or totally manufactured. At the same time, our culture makes expending calories in order to secure the food virtually non-existent. Obesity does decline health quite faithfully. You don't even have to be a scientist to recognize it; just look at a fit person going up a set of stair vs. an obese person. Does the obese person appear healthy as they gasp and stagger up the stairs?

 

FTR, I am pro-fitness, not just pro-thinness, but to be fit is to be thin, not obese.

 

In my case, I have a couple of health issues-PCOS and Fibromyalgia that make losing weight and exercising very difficult. I am willing to do all those other things because I can.

 

At what point would you be unwilling to do something for your husband to please him?

 

It sounds like you are unable to do those things, therefore it's not an issue. I think the issue is when you CAN but CHOOSE not to.

 

I would be unwilling to do something that I felt was unreasonable or disrespectful, but as of yet there has never been anything like that.

 

I try to do things that I know he likes, and he tries to do things I like. I wear ball caps frequently because I know he likes them - even though they make my head itch. He grows his beard out because he knows I love a scruffy man - even though it makes his face itch. Conversely, he doesn't complain about me not wearing ball caps enough because he knows they make my head itch and I don't complain when he shaves the beard off because I know it makes his face itch. It seems that most of our issues are itch related.... :D.

 

Anyways, this is what I'm saying. Things that are reasonable, respectful, and not impossible just shouldn't be a big deal to give on every now and then. I think that if your spouse is asking you to change something fundamental about yourself or making you feel bad for not doing something you just can't do, then the issue isn't "you pleasing him" but something much deeper.

 

:iagree: Perfectly said.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I don't think it's "reasonable" or "respectful" to ask your spouse to do things to themselves that cause physical discomfort. If hats made me itch, I would not wear them - regardless of whether dh thought they looked good. He likes high heel shoes - guess what? They hurt my feet and I run a huge risk of falling on my face in high heels, so I don't wear them.. and he'd never ask it of me, just as I wouldn't ask him to do something that caused him physical discomfort, pain, etc.

 

 

 

I don't get the focus on appearance throughout this thread. I really don't. I've never cared how my dh looked on the outside - I love him for who he IS.

 

The focus on appearance throughout this thread is because that is what the thread is about. Appearance. That was the original topic, thus we are focusing on it. :001_smile:

 

I guess we just view this differently. It's not like DH says "Kristen, wear a ball cap tonight!!!" :D. I willingly - without being asked - wear them occasionally because I know he thinks they are cute. It's just not that big of a deal. I'd wear the heels, too. Why not? I mean, I wouldn't be wearing them every day, and he'd never ask me to wear them at all, it would just a sweet gesture because I know he likes them, even if I don't. I would make him a dinner he liked, too, even if I hated it. It's just being nice to each other.

[Slartibartfast]

Honestly, the 'reasonably stylish clothing' loses me completely. I wouldn't know stylish if it bit me on the butt, tripped me, and commenced kicking me in the head. :lol: I'm happy if my clothes are clean, without holes that aren't meant to be there. I don't think that *anything* looks good on me, my body is a disaster of different sizing, and don't have the first foggiest notion of how to decipher what clothing would be more flattering and why. I sooooo need 'What Not To Wear'.

 

 

Yeah...me too.

 

I don't know what looks nice. I don't know all those matchy things women are supposed to know.

[Joker]

The focus on appearance throughout this thread is because that is what the thread is about. Appearance. That was the original topic, thus we are focusing on it. :001_smile:

 

I guess we just view this differently. It's not like DH says "Kristen, wear a ball cap tonight!!!" :D. I willingly - without being asked - wear them occasionally because I know he thinks they are cute. It's just not that big of a deal. I'd wear the heels, too. Why not? I mean, I wouldn't be wearing them every day, and he'd never ask me to wear them at all, it would just a sweet gesture because I know he likes them, even if I don't. I would make him a dinner he liked, too, even if I hated it. It's just being nice to each other.

 

I make meals I hate because dh likes them but it doesn't cause anyone physical discomfort. I wouldn't do something that caused myself discomfort just because he liked it and I wouldn't want him to either. In fact, I would be upset by him doing so. I love him no matter what he looks like so him doing something that makes him uncomfortable just to please me would actually make me very uncomfortable and I would wonder why he felt it was necessary.

[gardenmom5]

Well, just to be clear THIS poster doesn't feel that EVERYONE should feel a certain way. The original question was 'do you feel it is your obligation to maintain a reasonable appearance for your mate?' I said yes. I also said I believe many people do not recognize the importance of doing so. Clearly YMMV.

 

that sure sounds to me like you think everyone should have the same opinion as you. Your own words contradict yourself. You state that those who don't think it's important DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE of doing so. (and are therefore wrong.)

[gardenmom5]

I attended a wedding once where the Priest said that it was the woman's obligation to keep herself looking as she did on her wedding day because it was part of why the husband chose her, and he should be able to expect her to stay slim and beautiful. I cannot recall now all of what he said, but I had never heard such garbage before in a ceremony! The guests were muffling giggles and rolling eyes. I was wondering what the bride was thinking, poor thing. No matter what your opinion is on the subject, it doesn't belong in a wedding ceremony!

 

did the priest tell the husband he was to keep himself looking like he did on his wedding day?

 

someone sent me a cartoon once. the 40ish husband complains to his wife that she didn't keep up her end of the deal, she doesn't look like she did at 20. She told him to go find a 20 year old, and she'd make sure he lived just like he did then. with a beater car that didn't run, and broke. the last frame has the husband reflecting on the perspective his wife gives him, and why he loves her.

[gardenmom5]

I don't think it's "reasonable" or "respectful" to ask your spouse to do things to themselves that cause physical discomfort. If hats made me itch, I would not wear them - regardless of whether dh thought they looked good. He likes high heel shoes - guess what? They hurt my feet and I run a huge risk of falling on my face in high heels, so I don't wear them.. and he'd never ask it of me, just as I wouldn't ask him to do something that caused him physical discomfort, pain, etc.

 

 

 

I don't get the focus on appearance throughout this thread. I really don't. I've never cared how my dh looked on the outside - I love him for who he IS.

:iagree:

[UnsinkableKristen]

I make meals I hate because dh likes them but it doesn't cause anyone physical discomfort.

 

 

To be fair, it probably causes your taste buds a little physical discomfort :tongue_smilie::D

[LidiyaDawn]

The focus on appearance throughout this thread is because that is what the thread is about. Appearance. That was the original topic, thus we are focusing on it. :001_smile:

 

 

 

Grrrr. You know that ain't what I meant. :tongue_smilie:

[UnsinkableKristen]

Grrrr. You know that ain't what I meant. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

LOL :D Just trying to make things a little lighter.

 

It seems that a lot of us have pretty emotional reactions to this topic, and probably won't agree. Which is no big deal because we only have to agree with our spouse on it anyway :001_smile:

[LibraryLover]

I think I brought up the high heels. :) I hardly ever wore them in the past, but now I really like them sometimes. They don't hurt right away and *I* like the way they look on me. ;) I started wearing them because some of the shoes I was seeing were very appealing to me. He never asked me to, but when I started wearing them, he said he liked them. A lot. :)

 

Perhaps *I* have changed some. :auto: This old dog has new tricks. :) And so does he. :001_huh:

 

Our youngest is 12. I have started to travel a little alone with him now that I can leave the youngest with the bigs with total confidence and without worry. I like it. :)

Edited August 12, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Hoggirl]

 

Maybe I am a little sensitive about this issue because I have a friend who was married to a man who expected her to dress a certain way, look a certain way, not get over a particular weight, because he felt it was a reflection on him. She couldn't run to the store without makeup even if she wanted to. He really felt that she was obligated to play the part he'd married her for, his idea of "doctor's wife". That's who I think of when I think of a spouse being obligated to maintain a particular appearance.

 

Cat

 

:lol: My friend is married to a doctor!

[Hoggirl]

I certainly hope my dh married more than my appearance at the age of 25. That really sounds shallow to me.

 

This was not what I meant in my original post. I, too, would hope that appearance wasn't the only factor. But, I do agree with many in this thread that it is (or at least CAN BE a factor). If your dh didn't care about your looks, dress, weight, appearance, whatever, when you married, then there would be no expectations, right?

 

We've talked a lot about letting oneself go. Wonder how a husband would react to a wife who did NOT place much importance on outward appearance (beyond hygiene (sp?), general neatness) before marriage who shifted to focusing on this after they married???

 

And my friend was not talking about continuing to look exactly as one did on one's wedding day. Sorry if I did not make that clear. No one can do that - even with gobs of plastic surgery. She mostly meant along the lines of doing the best one can with what one has and maintaining a reasonable proximity to the same standards of appearance that one held to when one married. Am I making any sense???

[UnsinkableKristen]

We've talked a lot about letting oneself go. Wonder how a husband would react to a wife who did NOT place much importance on outward appearance (beyond hygiene (sp?), general neatness) before marriage who shifted to focusing on this after they married???

 

 

 

Now that's an interesting thought.

[Scarlett]

I don't get the focus on appearance throughout this thread. I really don't. I've never cared how my dh looked on the outside - I love him for who he IS.

 

The focus is on appearance because that was the focus of the original post.

[Scarlett]

that sure sounds to me like you think everyone should have the same opinion as you. Your own words contradict yourself. You state that those who don't think it's important DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE of doing so. (and are therefore wrong.)

 

I said I believe. As in I think. As in my opinion. Many people on this thread have told me my opinions don't reflect theirs. However, others have mentioned that they would like their mate to change something about their appearance but don't want to hurt feelings.

[LibraryLover]

The focus is on appearance because that was the focus of the original post.

 

Yet!

 

I would be happy to talk about my dh's brain. Re biology class, it's your basic thang, but irl... it's pretty darn sexy.

 

I can't think of anything that turns me on/pushes my buttons more than a Smartypants. :tongue_smilie:

[myfunnybunch]

to be fit is to be thin

 

:001_huh:

 

Seriously?

 

Obesity is certainly not healthy. But fitness does not automatically equal thinness. I know some very fit women who are also very curvy. Certainly not obese, but in no way are they thin. They work hard to be fit and healthy. One is the fitness trainer and swimmer at our pool. She's muscular and curvy. Not thin by any stretch of the imagination. She probably wears a plus size. Fit, absolutely! She could probably run circles around me. But thin is not her body type.

 

Cat

[mommaduck]

:001_huh:

 

Seriously?

 

Obesity is certainly not healthy. But fitness does not automatically equal thinness. I know some very fit women who are also very curvy. Certainly not obese, but in no way are they thin. They work hard to be fit and healthy. One is the fitness trainer and swimmer at our pool. She's muscular and curvy. Not thin by any stretch of the imagination. She probably wears a plus size. Fit, absolutely! She could probably run circles around me. But thin is not her body type.

 

Cat

 

Yep. Take it from someone who used to be "thin". I ran the same health risks (diabetes, heart disease and heart trouble, organ issues or failure, etc) as people that are obese. I got so sick of hearing, "oh, you're skinny, you wouldn't understand what we normal people are going through" in regards to losing weight generally. Uhm, yes, I did. I couldn't gain weight and I NEEDED to for the sake of my health. Also, where people feel badly about how they look when they are overweight, I felt the same with being underweight. My bones stuck out and I had a male friend that I had everything he would want in a girl, except I didn't have enough meat on my bones for him (I had NO meat on my bones...thankfully, I was already engaged...in fact, he told me this the week before my wedding).

[Peela]

I definitely don't feel any sense of obligation in any moral sense. I like to feel I look good, though, for many reasons, so I guess I do it for personal motivations - certainly not out of guilt or obligation. It does make me feel more confidant.

 

I love it when plump people have self confidence and dress well though. My mum always impresses me with her good dress style, and she is big. Her dh married her like that- so I am sure he cant mind too much.

[Ginevra]

:001_huh:

 

Seriously?

 

Obesity is certainly not healthy. But fitness does not automatically equal thinness. I know some very fit women who are also very curvy. Certainly not obese, but in no way are they thin. They work hard to be fit and healthy. One is the fitness trainer and swimmer at our pool. She's muscular and curvy. Not thin by any stretch of the imagination. She probably wears a plus size. Fit, absolutely! She could probably run circles around me. But thin is not her body type.

 

Cat

 

Please do not excerpt only one little bit of what I said and ignore the rest. The entire paragraph said this:

 

I totally agree that you can be thin and unhealthy. However, excessive storage of fat is an abnormal physiological state. Western civilization includes a spectacular availability of every imaginable (and unimaginable) kind of food, natural or totally manufactured. At the same time, our culture makes expending calories in order to secure the food virtually non-existent. Obesity does decline health quite faithfully. You don't even have to be a scientist to recognize it; just look at a fit person going up a set of stair vs. an obese person. Does the obese person appear healthy as they gasp and stagger up the stairs?

 

FTR, I am pro-fitness, not just pro-thinness, but to be fit is to be thin, not obese.

 

I'm not talking about a fit person who has a larger frame or a pear-shape. I'm not saying everyone larger than a size 4 is unhealthy! Obesity is by definition, NOT fitness. If a person exercises and eats appropriately, they will be fit AND healthy. If a person exercises, but eats junk, they will not be healthy because our bodies are not made to run on junk. Maybe they'll be thin, maybe they won't, a lot will depend on their frame, but I firmly believe that you have to have both exercise and an appropriate diet to maintain health.

 

I know someone who has been going to the gym for 30 years, but she is neither fit nor thin. I don't know why this is, exactly; it could be that she doesn't actually exercise much, just "goes to the gym." It could be because she doesn't eat well; from what I know about her eating, it seems so. Her frame is bigger in the first place, so she would never be a teeny-weenie thing. But I don't believe she's doing all the appropriate things but just mysteriously keeps a thick padding of fat all over.

 

*sigh* I don't know. People are always touchy about weight/fat issues. It always seems to me that people just do not want to hear that your body will reflect both your diet and your exercise level. People always want to give reasons why this doesn't apply to them. I'm sure there are some people who have medical challenges that severely hamper their weight, but what percentage of people can that possibly be? Where I live, obesity is incredibly prevalent. It's almost a novelty to see an older-than-30ish woman who looks fit. There's probably at least some connection between this observation and McDonald's sign boasting "Billions and Billions served!." :tongue_smilie:

[mommaduck]

Please do not excerpt only one little bit of what I said and ignore the rest. The entire paragraph said this:

 

 

 

I'm not talking about a fit person who has a larger frame or a pear-shape. I'm not saying everyone larger than a size 4 is unhealthy! Obesity is by definition, NOT fitness. If a person exercises and eats appropriately, they will be fit AND healthy. If a person exercises, but eats junk, they will not be healthy because our bodies are not made to run on junk. Maybe they'll be thin, maybe they won't, a lot will depend on their frame, but I firmly believe that you have to have both exercise and an appropriate diet to maintain health.

 

I know someone who has been going to the gym for 30 years, but she is neither fit nor thin. I don't know why this is, exactly; it could be that she doesn't actually exercise much, just "goes to the gym." It could be because she doesn't eat well; from what I know about her eating, it seems so. Her frame is bigger in the first place, so she would never be a teeny-weenie thing. But I don't believe she's doing all the appropriate things but just mysteriously keeps a thick padding of fat all over.

 

*sigh* I don't know. People are always touchy about weight/fat issues. It always seems to me that people just do not want to hear that your body will reflect both your diet and your exercise level. People always want to give reasons why this doesn't apply to them. I'm sure there are some people who have medical challenges that severely hamper their weight, but what percentage of people can that possibly be? Where I live, obesity is incredibly prevalent. It's almost a novelty to see an older-than-30ish woman who looks fit. There's probably at least some connection between this observation and McDonald's sign boasting "Billions and Billions served!." :tongue_smilie:

 

It can be a lot.

[Mrs Mungo]

If a person exercises and eats appropriately, they will be fit AND healthy. If a person exercises, but eats junk, they will not be healthy because our bodies are not made to run on junk. Maybe they'll be thin, maybe they won't, a lot will depend on their frame, but I firmly believe that you have to have both exercise and an appropriate diet to maintain health.

 

This just is not necessarily true. I have a friend with a endocrine problem. She is a vegetarian who runs triathlons and is obese. She runs at least 3-5 miles or/or swims every day. She does not eat junk. She is overweight.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Mrs Mungo
Iphone

[hsmom]

I agree, but happen to be one of the ones who is not like I used to be. I have gained 90 lbs in the last 6 years (most of it happened right after (yes after ) pregnancy with my last one and happened in less than one year) and have yet to loose one of them. I am not the same person I was 12 years ago.. Believe me I have tried, I have been to doctors, I have done it all. No one not even me can figure out what happened. Why I am unable to loose weight. This has also had an effect on how I carry myself. I used to always wear nice/nice casual clothes, hair was always done and a bit of make up daily. That was me, now I am not happy with me and it does show in my appearance now. Am I proud of this? No. Do I try to change ? Yes daily. But when you go up to a mirror or go buy clothes and all you want to do is cry it is hard to sit there and pretty yourself up.

[texasmama]

In many cultures around the world, it is expected that both parties will gain weight after marriage, which to them reflects being taken care of by the other, and childbearing by the woman.

 

This is a separate issue from keeping yourself nice. I don't see what's so great about letting yourself go, where you wear ratty, old clothes if you have other options. And unflattering pants are as easy to wear as flattering pants. This goes for both partners. Anyway one can be skinny or fat, and still be either nicely dressed/clean or dirty and wearing ugly clothes. Weight isn't the only factor he by a long shot. But it is worth recognizing that a busy parent won't have time to spend hours in front of the mirror -- that is a ridiculous expectation for daily life.

 

I also detect a lot of times that there is some latent hostility to getting dressed up for your husband, but it's seen as normal to do so for a boyfriend, with whom one really has zero commitment. I think this is interesting and sad.

 

This pretty well sums up my thoughts. Appearance is more important to some people than it is to others. I think that (mostly) those people find each other, and it all works out.

 

In my own marriage, dh and I love each other more deeply than just based on physical appearances, but the physical attraction is part of our relationship. It took me years to realize that he prefers me no matter how much I weigh or how short or long my hair is. He has preferences about those things, as I do about him, but he still prefers me when my appearance doesn't match up with his preferences.

 

It is a priority (not the top one but nonetheless not a non issue) for both of us to present ourselves in a manner such that we are attractive to each other. Because we share this desire, I think it works out just fine.

 

He was attracted to me when I weighed 50 pounds more after the birth of baby #4. If I had never lost the weight, he would have still been attracted to me. I lost weight for myself, not for him. His hair is falling out. He cannot help this, obviously. I don't want him to use pills and potions to make it grow back, even though I prefer him with hair. I would urge against pills and potions for hair growth even if he wanted to do it because it is vanity for vanity's sake. We expect to grow old together, staying attracted to each other as time and gravity work their changes upon our bodies. I would know that something was not right with his mental health if he began "letting himself go" (forgoing personal hygiene, gaining large amounts of weight, not caring about how he presents to the general public), and he would know the same about me.

 

Every marriage is different. I can only present how ours works.

[mommaduck]

I agree, but happen to be one of the ones who is not like I used to be. I have gained 90 lbs in the last 6 years (most of it happened right after (yes after ) pregnancy with my last one and happened in less than one year) and have yet to loose one of them. I am not the same person I was 12 years ago.. Believe me I have tried, I have been to doctors, I have done it all. No one not even me can figure out what happened. Why I am unable to loose weight. This has also had an effect on how I carry myself. I used to always wear nice/nice casual clothes, hair was always done and a bit of make up daily. That was me, now I am not happy with me and it does show in my appearance now. Am I proud of this? No. Do I try to change ? Yes daily. But when you go up to a mirror or go buy clothes and all you want to do is cry it is hard to sit there and pretty yourself up.

 

:grouphug: truly, I understand. There have been times where I have not come out of a dressing room because of how horrid the clothes made me look. I've literally had to relearn how to dress and it's a lot more difficult than when I was 25. The past couple of years, DH has actually been able to afford to buy me some nice clothes. But it's hard when I can't wear half of what is on the racks. I had to have help finding what would work.

Edited August 12, 2011 by mommaduck

[Scarlett]

*sigh* I don't know. People are always touchy about weight/fat issues. It always seems to me that people just do not want to hear that your body will reflect both your diet and your exercise level. People always want to give reasons why this doesn't apply to them. I'm sure there are some people who have medical challenges that severely hamper their weight, but what percentage of people can that possibly be? Where I live, obesity is incredibly prevalent. It's almost a novelty to see an older-than-30ish woman who looks fit. There's probably at least some connection between this observation and McDonald's sign boasting "Billions and Billions served!." :tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree:

 

This is a topic that just can't be discussed without someone getting really really upset.

[Ginevra]

It can be a lot.

 

How? I don't mean to argue with you; you're my favorite cyber-fowl. But I don't understand the theory that large numbers of obese westerners are medically NOT able to become fit. I hate to use an example of abuse, but how many fat bodies were stacked in piles in Nazi concentration camps? How often do people go into a situation where their food and activity level is controlled (think of Boot Camp), yet they stubbornly remain fat? How many anorexic people mysteriously remain fat while they starve themselves?

 

Don't misunderstand: I'm not championing starvation. I'm illustrating that reduced food and increased activity does very reliably cause weight loss in all kinds of people, all over the world.

 

I actually think westerners, especially women, are being dis-served by the promotion of "nothing you can do about it" thinking. Most people are not happy to be fat. I've seen it a million times over. The weight-loss industry rakes in billions of dollars every year - somebody is buying those products. Somebody buys pills and shakes that are supposed to make the fat melt off. But nobody seems to own it, they just go back to their corner where they sadly nod that there's nothing they can do about it.

 

My nephew, who is somewhat heavy, said about himself and his somewhat-heavy girlfriend, "You know what? We like to eat. We don't care that much that we're kind of big. We want to eat nice food and not worry about it." Personally, I prefer that honesty. If someone wants to eat sundaes more than they want to wear bikinis - fine! Make that choice; I couldn't care less. What I don't like is to hear people say they are unhappy about their fat, but then say there's nothing they can do about it. I am sure there are some people who have endocrine disorders or what-not, but I don't think that accounts for many obese people.

 

And please know - I'm not bashing anyone who finds it hard to lose weight. I have had to lose weight and it is hard! I want people to hear my heart - it makes me sad to hear people give up. It makes me sad when people don't know what to do to get fit. It annoys me that people are preyed upon by the "lose-weight" manufacturers who sell gadgets and pills that will NOT address the problem. It makes me hurt for other women who think they cannot ever lose fat when that might be a lie. And lastly, it hurts when women dismiss me as having some sort of magic gene that keeps me thin.

[Crimson Wife]

For those who feel steps should be taken to maintain a reasonable fascimile of original appearance - how far do you think this should go?

 

booK lift, maybe even a little enhancement when they start to sag?

eye lift, chin tuck?

tummy tuck, liposuction?

 

Ironically, just yesterday there was a discussion on my town mothers' club about recommendations for a plastic surgeon for b00k lift/augmentation. So yes, in my social circle, I do think the expectation is for surgical "enhancement" if the couple can afford it.

 

I'm probably not done having kids yet, so there's no point in even considering having a "mommy makeover" (yes, that's what it's called in my social circle) for a while.

[Scarlett]

How? I don't mean to argue with you; you're my favorite cyber-fowl. But I don't understand the theory that large numbers of obese westerners are medically NOT able to become fit. I hate to use an example of abuse, but how many fat bodies were stacked in piles in Nazi concentration camps? How often do people go into a situation where their food and activity level is controlled (think of Boot Camp), yet they stubbornly remain fat? How many anorexic people mysteriously remain fat while they starve themselves?

 

Don't misunderstand: I'm not championing starvation. I'm illustrating that reduced food and increased activity does very reliably cause weight loss in all kinds of people, all over the world.

 

I actually think westerners, especially women, are being dis-served by the promotion of "nothing you can do about it" thinking. Most people are not happy to be fat. I've seen it a million times over. The weight-loss industry rakes in billions of dollars every year - somebody is buying those products. Somebody buys pills and shakes that are supposed to make the fat melt off. But nobody seems to own it, they just go back to their corner where they sadly nod that there's nothing they can do about it.

 

My nephew, who is somewhat heavy, said about himself and his somewhat-heavy girlfriend, "You know what? We like to eat. We don't care that much that we're kind of big. We want to eat nice food and not worry about it." Personally, I prefer that honesty. If someone wants to eat sundaes more than they want to wear bikinis - fine! Make that choice; I couldn't care less. What I don't like is to hear people say they are unhappy about their fat, but then say there's nothing they can do about it. I am sure there are some people who have endocrine disorders or what-not, but I don't think that accounts for many obese people.

 

And please know - I'm not bashing anyone who finds it hard to lose weight. I have had to lose weight and it is hard! I want people to hear my heart - it makes me sad to hear people give up. It makes me sad when people don't know what to do to get fit. It annoys me that people are preyed upon by the "lose-weight" manufacturers who sell gadgets and pills that will NOT address the problem. It makes me hurt for other women who think they cannot ever lose fat when that might be a lie. And lastly, it hurts when women dismiss me as having some sort of magic gene that keeps me thin.

 

So well said! I have a good friend who is 12 years younger than me and she told me, 'oh I've given up.' :( She was so cute and trim when she was 20. WHY give up?

 

I am having a hard time losing this 10-15 pounds I gained since getting married. I still weigh less than 140 at 5'6". I am SOOOO unhappy with myself. When I went through my divorce I got down to 112! WAAAAAY too thin. But then I married dh 9 months ago and almost immediately gained 10 pounds. I told dh the other day, 'I'm fat and happy but I'm sure not happy that I am fat.' I am currently going through my schedule for the school year which starts Monday and I am determined to get organized so that I can begin to exercise again and eat more healthily.

 

In the meantime I have REFUSED to buy bigger clothes. I figure that is a form of giving up. I won't do it. And reading this thread with other mom's like me who seem to just accept more and more weight as part of motherhood and the aging process has me even more determined to get back to the weight I feel the best.

[Scarlett]

Ironically, just yesterday there was a discussion on my town mothers' club about recommendations for a plastic surgeon for b00k lift/augmentation. So yes, in my social circle, I do think the expectation is for surgical "enhancement" if the couple can afford it.

 

I'm probably not done having kids yet, so there's no point in even considering having a "mommy makeover" (yes, that's what it's called in my social circle) for a while.

 

If I had plenty of money I might do a little something in the area of eye lift...I have, like my mother and grandmother, the tendency of my top eyelid to sag. I certainly won't be going into debt for something like that. But sounds like in your circle money isn't a problem. :tongue_smilie:

[mommaduck]

Quill, my husband has been told he's obese (due to the BMI). He's not. He's a large, well built man. He's physically active. The past week he's done nothing but carry things up and down stairs all day (72 steps one direction, all day long up and down them...this with bad knees). He worked in 160degree, unventilated factories for several years. He's worked on road crews, manning the jackhammer. He went into a betting pool at church (I know, I know, it's a quite thing the men do every year...he thought they were playing around when he got on the scale...till my daughters' godfather put a hundred down on him!) He didn't starve himself. But he did drink lots of juice, some milk, and cut out most meat. Fruits and veggies and rice. He GAINED WEIGHT. The spare tire when no where. The man was too tired to do sit ups, as he was suffering from black mold poisoning at the time. His dr told him that his body thought it was being starved, thus held onto the weight. He also has genetic cholesterol issues (also not uncommon amoungst the populace). He went on the "Mediterranian diet"...and his cholesterol went through the roof! His cholesterol had been much lower when he was wolfing it down at Jack in the Box (this was years ago...no JitB here :) ). He needed medication.

 

He's just one example of a big person that can't lose weight even with diet and exercise. He got out of the black mold infested place. He's excercising, eating healthier, sleeping better, etc. He's still not losing weight.

 

I'm not taking you as bashing. But I think that people really do assume that works for one always works for others or for the majority. I don't believe that.