My sister offered me money to put DS into "real" school...

[Janie Grace]

I don't have time to read this whole thread but the fact that your sister was homeschooled, and now feels so vehemently opposed to HSing, says that there are much deeper issues afoot. Have you heard her out -- not on what she thinks about your ds but about her experiences? I'd bet that her issues with YOUR choice to hs have to do with her negative experiences, not what she sees in your son. Perhaps you can explain the ways that you are doing it differently from what she associates with HSing.

 

Apart from that, I'd probably try to talk to my other sisters, or mom. Let them know you're not ignorant of their gossip, and respectfully ask them to refrain from discussing your life choices.

[CourtneyMI]

Wow, do we have the same family? Because the EXACT same thing happened to me and DH when we told my family we were homeschooling. DH's family was fine with it but my family blew a fricken gasket. My sister, my mom and my best friend basically told me I was ruining my children's lives. I didn't matter what I said or how I said it when I showed them the stats on homeschooled kids versus other schooled kids. Nothing mattered. I finally put my foot down. I told my mom that she had the chance to raise her children, I am going to raise mine the way I see fit. I told my sister she could shut her mouth and come back to talk to me when she has kids or she wouldn't be able to see them. And I told my best friend that she could leave and she wasn't welcome back until she could respect DH, our decisions and the way we choose to raise our kids. I told them all I was done being the doormat.

 

I am like you. First born, wants to please everyone etc. But I was bending over backwards trying to please everyone else and it was stressing me out. Your kids need to be around people who respect you and your DH. I know I am being a little harsh but its not going to stop until you stand up for yourselves. :grouphug:

[Mommy22alyns]

Wow. 16?!?! Just, no. She's a child and obviously thinks she knows all about raising kids... you shouldn't even have to put up with a "tongue lashing" from her.

[JFSinIL]

Sister or not, she's 16 and isn't mature enough to warrant a 'voice' in your life. :grouphug:

 

Exactly. She is not a grown-up, much less the mom, and has no say in this. Tell her she is out of place and to mind her Ps and Qs.

[brehon]

Boundaries . . . You need to build some better boundaries. For sure! It'll make your life so much more peaceful, and it will ultimately improve ALL your relationships, truly.

 

:iagree: I thought about this thread yesterday and today. I don't know how old you are and your oldest (assuming his age in your sig is accurate) is still young. Your life will be easier and happier in the long run if you and your dh set appropriate boundaries with each of your families. Perhaps harder initially as you set and enforce those boundaries, but much easier and healthier over time.

 

I know you said you're close to your mom and sisters. But, hon, no one has the right to criticise your parenting decisions, especially over dramatic teenagers (stress? really? suggest to your sister that she needs to focus more on her own life. this can be done nicely and lovingly.)

 

I hope you find a way to deal with the ongoing implicit and explicit criticisms. These will eventually filter to your children (and may have already).

 

eta: I'm the first born child in my family as well and don't understand the extra need for approval. Understand I'm not saying this is a critical way; more in a puzzled way, I suppose. If I were in your situation, I'd think long and hard about limiting my kids' exposure to your family until they can keep their opinions to themselves. This includes projecting attitudes.

Edited July 31, 2011 by brehon
thought

[Aelwydd]

Maybe because some of it hit home? You said you agree that your husband was too strict so maybe she had a valid point or two.

 

:iagree:

 

It's not that everything she said was true, but enough of it was that you couldn't just shut her out.

 

Lots of others here are saying, "She's just 16, she's clueless." But, you said yourself, that you largely raised her when she was younger. You had a large hand in shaping who she is. And I think some part of you realizes that unless you're a Grade A moron, then she's not one either--because you helped educate her, and train her.

 

I'm not saying that all of her criticism must be true, and you need to just throw over your entire life to please her. However, I can say that I find it odd that you don't allow a 16 yo to grab a snack from the kitchen without permission, first. And you have said yourself, that you think your dh is too hard on your ds.

 

It's easy to feel upset and stung at your little sis, and blame her for what you're feeling. But, if you have real issues with your dh about how to raise ds, you should perhaps take a page from your sister, and just tell him exactly how you feel. This isn't about hs'ing; this is about how you and dh may differ on what constitutes appropriate levels of control over your ds' life.

 

ETA: Also, like the person above, I'm a first born child. I enjoyed my parents' approval, but I certainly didn't need it then, and I don't need it now. In fact, I now hold beliefs and live my life according to ideals which are very much in direct opposition to what they believe. I have no problem making my own choices without regard to seeking others' approval. If anything, that would describe my younger, middle sister.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Aelwydd

[Mommy22alyns]

 

I'm not saying that all of her criticism must be true, and you need to just throw over your entire life to please her. However, I can say that I find it odd that you don't allow a 16 yo to grab a snack from the kitchen without permission, first. And you have said yourself, that you think your dh is too hard on your ds.

 

 

 

I think she's talking about an 8 yo there. My girls always ask permission and don't just raid the kitchen; I don't find that overly harsh or unusual.

[Aelwydd]

I think she's talking about an 8 yo there. My girls always ask permission and don't just raid the kitchen; I don't find that overly harsh or unusual.

 

My mistake; you're right, I misread that. I agree, my 8 yo does not have carte blanche access to the kitchen either.

 

I still think she needs to discuss her feelings about how ds is being raised with her dh, though. Maybe it's just me, but criticism like that never bothers me unless I suspect there's some truth to it. My family is opinionated and don't hesitate to share their feelings. Criticism is par for the course; but, I listen to what they have to say, even if I disagree, and will discuss it with my dh.

[mommaduck]

Oy. She's only 16 (almost 17) and I took a 30 minute tongue lashing from her today about how I'm ruining my oldest DS's life. She sincerely asked if she could give me her paychecks so that I could send DS to school. (We live in a notoriously bad school district so she didn't suggest public.) She said she now has stress acne from fretting over DS.

 

She is angry that we're hard on him and expect too much of him. She said that it's horrible that he's not allowed in the fridge or cupboards without permission, that he doesn't participate in team sports right now and most of all, that he's homeschooled. She says he's way too intelligent and social to be stuck inside with two parents that are way too hard on him every day.

 

It's hard because I agree that DH, in particular, is too hard on him, but I don't think that's a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

It was also hard to take because I have 4 sisters and this one I was practically a mother to. I potty trained her, homeschooled her, did everything for her and she looks down on me so much now. I never would have guessed I'd reap such disdain in the end. If it was just the rantings of a 16 year old, it would be easier to blow it off, but I know she's just the only one brave enough to say what all my sisters talk about behind my back.

 

I'm very close with my family. My sisters spend a lot of time with my children and are around weekly at the minimum. When the kids stay with my parents, they sleep in my sisters' rooms and have gone to work with them, on trips, etc... so it's not like they don't know the kids well.

 

I've always been the type that was ok with doing the hard thing, but I'm also a typical firstborn... a pleaser. I hate flattery, but I want to know that I'm doing the right thing. I never knew how much family support would mean to me and how much I'd want to hear my parents and family say that I am doing a good job or the right thing. They seem to think that my kids were born wonderful and everything I do is screwing them up.

 

This is my life... my job. I put everything into my kids and it's very painful that the people closest to me see me as a failure.

 

If you homeschooled your sister, then does she feel you did a terrible job with her? Or that homeschooling in general is a terrible thing? The other thing I would say directly to her is that this is your kid. She gets to parent her future kids HER way and you'll stay out of it. Therefore, she needs to stay out of your parenting and simply respect that you do things differently than she THINKS she will do with hers. Ah, the age of the older teen...when they know EVERYTHING and can do it better than their elders.

[mommaduck]

I'm missing something about the family dynamics here. Why did you "practically raise" your sister? Why didn't your MOTHER and/or FATHER do that?

 

That alone tells me all I'd need to know about parenting in your family and I wouldn't much care what they thought of my parenting/homeschooling.

Careful there...we don't know the family circumstances nor the entire age difference between these two sisters. It may not have been "bad" parenting, but rather out of necessity. I had a friend that practically raised her much younger sister and I'm old enough (with enough age difference) that I had a hand in raising/caring for a cousin and a brother in their early years.

[Harriet Vane]

I'm missing something about the family dynamics here. Why did you "practically raise" your sister? Why didn't your MOTHER and/or FATHER do that?

 

That alone tells me all I'd need to know about parenting in your family and I wouldn't much care what they thought of my parenting/homeschooling.

 

Okay, speaking gently here . . .

 

Your judgments here are presumptuous. First of all, it's none of your business. Second, there are myriad reasons why an older sibling might be more parental, and those reasons would range from the totally-natural-and-understandable to the supremely dysfunctional and all flavors in between. Either way, your post is unnecessarily harsh.

[KatDilan]

She's 16.

 

"When you have your own children, you are free to screw them up however you please. These are my children, and my turn." :D

 

Never fails that the biggest parenting experts are the ones with no children. Same goes for marriage and singles.

 

:iagree:

[Stacie Leigh]

I'm missing something about the family dynamics here. Why did you "practically raise" your sister? Why didn't your MOTHER and/or FATHER do that?

 

That alone tells me all I'd need to know about parenting in your family and I wouldn't much care what they thought of my parenting/homeschooling.

 

I am the oldest of 8 children. This sister was number 6 and my dad traveled extensively. The year she was born we moved hundreds of miles away, my dad changed jobs and my mom was pregnant by the time my sis was 4 months old. She had number 7 and was pregnant 3 months later.

 

Part of me "raising" my sister was that I was simply very interested in helping and pleasing my family... and I just adored her. I picked her name when she was born and my name was her first word. Part of it was that my parents expected a lot. We definitely had/have dysfunction, but my mom was not at all negligent or uninvolved. It was a crazy time in our lives.

 

No doubt, my mom did more than I did, but I spent huge amounts of time with her and babysat for even days while my parents were out of town.

 

:iagree:

 

It's not that everything she said was true, but enough of it was that you couldn't just shut her out.

 

Lots of others here are saying, "She's just 16, she's clueless." But, you said yourself, that you largely raised her when she was younger. You had a large hand in shaping who she is. And I think some part of you realizes that unless you're a Grade A moron, then she's not one either--because you helped educate her, and train her.

 

I'm not saying that all of her criticism must be true, and you need to just throw over your entire life to please her. However, I can say that I find it odd that you don't allow a 16 yo to grab a snack from the kitchen without permission, first. And you have said yourself, that you think your dh is too hard on your ds.

 

It's easy to feel upset and stung at your little sis, and blame her for what you're feeling. But, if you have real issues with your dh about how to raise ds, you should perhaps take a page from your sister, and just tell him exactly how you feel. This isn't about hs'ing; this is about how you and dh may differ on what constitutes appropriate levels of control over your ds' life.

 

ETA: Also, like the person above, I'm a first born child. I enjoyed my parents' approval, but I certainly didn't need it then, and I don't need it now. In fact, I now hold beliefs and live my life according to ideals which are very much in direct opposition to what they believe. I have no problem making my own choices without regard to seeking others' approval. If anything, that would describe my younger, middle sister.

 

Part of my frustration is how very far she's gone from the way I saw her growing up when she was little. She's rejected a lot of the values I helped instill and that is sad for me.

 

I was trying to explain to her how very "American" and even "MTV" her ideals are about how my DS is raised. She even brought up the fact that I don't keep his hairstyle up to date enough and it could lead to teasing.

 

The part about how hard we are on him makes me sad because there is truth there.

 

If you homeschooled your sister, then does she feel you did a terrible job with her? Or that homeschooling in general is a terrible thing? The other thing I would say directly to her is that this is your kid. She gets to parent her future kids HER way and you'll stay out of it. Therefore, she needs to stay out of your parenting and simply respect that you do things differently than she THINKS she will do with hers. Ah, the age of the older teen...when they know EVERYTHING and can do it better than their elders.

 

No... I only homeschooled her during her K year and it went fine. I did 3 days a week and my mom didn't follow through with the 2 she was supposed to be doing, so my sis suffered, but she doesn't blame me. She does blame my mom to some extent, but she's very loyal to my mom, so I think she's transferred the blame to homeschooling as the problem. She was homeschooled on and off later and it didn't go well for her. She's also very social and improved dramatically once she was in school. This, however, is due to the fact that my mom signed her up for cyber school and didn't assist in any way whatsoever leaving her to kind of drown in it. My mom is very loving and nurturing but she was a very poor homeschooler. It could be noted that I *strongly* advised my mom against enrolling my sis in cyber school. I knew it was a bad choice for someone who needed personal attention and choices to stay interested.

 

Okay, speaking gently here . . .

 

Your judgments here are presumptuous. First of all, it's none of your business. Second, there are myriad reasons why an older sibling might be more parental, and those reasons would range from the totally-natural-and-understandable to the supremely dysfunctional and all flavors in between. Either way, your post is unnecessarily harsh.

 

Thank you for standing in there... I wasn't upset because frankly, my family of origin was/is somewhat dysfunctional. I agree that the post was a bit assuming, so I clarified our situation above.

[MrsMe]

Since when do we listen to a 16 year old on how to raise our own children?

 

I agree to make your visits less.

[Stacie Leigh]

I just had another thought about this. Does she have ANY idea how much private school costs? She seriously thinks she can afford it? What will happen when she can't anymore?

 

I think I'd call her out on her ridiculous proposal.

 

She knows she could never pay for it. She asked if she gave me all of her money if it would make enough of a difference to make it possible. It's still ridiculous.

 

I appreciate how invested and caring she is. I love that about her. I don't love the know it all attitude and the inability to see the big picture. I do think (pray, hope) that will come in time.

[july19]

Never fails that the biggest parenting experts are the ones with no children. Same goes for marriage and singles.

 

:iagree: Man, ain't that the truth!!!

[Aelwydd]

Do you not see how this:

 

Part of my frustration is how very far she's gone from the way I saw her growing up when she was little. She's rejected a lot of the values I helped instill and that is sad for me.

 

could be a warning flag regarding this:

 

The part about how hard we are on him makes me sad because there is truth there.[/Quote]Perhaps the reason this whole thing bothers you so much, is that if what you did the first time with your sis didn't work like you wished, you are afraid of making mistakes this go-round with your ds that will cause him to go against your values, as well.

 

I don't know you or your family, so I can't judge how healthy/ unhealthy your relationship is with them. I can only go with what you are telling me, and what you've said is:

 

1. Your sister is 16, but her opinion is not just hers; it is backed by your entire family of origin (or you suspect)

 

2. You were influential in how your sister was raised, in the early years.

 

3. You are bothered by some of what she said because you've had your own doubts/ questions along the same lines.

 

 

Ok, to me, the response to that isn't to demonize your 16 year old sister, and discuss in a condescending tone how she thinks she knows it all. Certainly, you sister should have been more respectful in how she shared her concerns; but the manner of how she shared doesn't make the message necessarily wrong. Nor does her age. You should weigh her arguments based on their merits alone, irrespective of the person making them. Only you and dh can determine whether her arguments hold any basis or not.

 

If it were me, I'd examine reasons why what I'd felt some of what she said hit home, and then have a frank, and open discussion with dh, about whether we need to adjust our parenting style.

 

Then, I would go back to sister (and family), and basically tell them:

 

"We have considered your criticisms. We agreed (or disagreed) on points

x, y

, and

z

. We understand why you feel the way you do. Now, we think you owe us the same courtesy of respect (that we have shown you), and that includes the way in which you approach us in future with your concerns. If you cannot afford us that respect, then we will be forced to limit interactions. Polite, constructive advice is one thing; emotional gang-piling is another. Please learn the difference."

 

 

That is how I'd handle it. And, then I'd go on raising my dc the way dh and I had agreed on. JMO.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Aelwydd

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

I appreciate how invested and caring she is. I love that about her. I don't love the know it all attitude and the inability to see the big picture. I do think (pray, hope) that will come in time.

 

One thing you need to let go of is her approval. You don't need her approval to do this, nor do you need her approval to have a good relationship with her, unless she is not capable of good relationships with people who do not do as she says. Then that is her problem, not yours. She doesn't have to like it, but she does have to respect your role as a parent in order to have a harmonious relationship with her. That is where boundaries become important. Like many have said in previous threads, the more you discuss something, the more you engage someone, the more you invite their opinions. Setting the boundary where it is not open for discussion if they cannot be respectful of your rightful position as the decision maker is very important.

[ereks mom]

Sister or not, she's 16 and isn't mature enough to warrant a 'voice' in your life. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[A.Balaban]

This is very tough.

 

I agree with the other posters about setting clear boundaries with the family. IMO, expensive nature camps and whatnot do not = a loving relationship if they undermine and plant "bad seeds" in your DC regarding your parenting choices/abilities/etc.

 

I am the eldest, and I have always always ALWAYS wanted my parents approval. But, after I had kids, I realized that I want THEIR approval. I want my kids to be happy & loved. So, I go off of my kids now, and not my parents. My parents did not approve of a lot of decisions in my life, but i just tell them "I am sorry you do not understand this, but I did this for my dc" and I close the matter to discussion. They eventually come around. Just give them time, and space.

 

Good luck.

[ma23peas]

Ditto all this below...

 

 

 

Do you not see how this:

 

 

 

could be a warning flag regarding this:

 

Perhaps the reason this whole thing bothers you so much, is that if what you did the first time with your sis didn't work like you wished, you are afraid of making mistakes this go-round with your ds that will cause him to go against your values, as well.

 

I don't know you or your family, so I can't judge how healthy/ unhealthy your relationship is with them. I can only go with what you are telling me, and what you've said is:

 

1. Your sister is 16, but her opinion is not just hers; it is backed by your entire family of origin (or you suspect)

 

2. You were influential in how your sister was raised, in the early years.

 

3. You are bothered by some of what she said because you've had your own doubts/ questions along the same lines.

 

 

Ok, to me, the response to that isn't to demonize your 16 year old sister, and discuss in a condescending tone how she thinks she knows it all. Certainly, you sister should have been more respectful in how she shared her concerns; but the manner of how she shared doesn't make the message necessarily wrong. Nor does her age. You should weigh her arguments based on their merits alone, irrespective of the person making them. Only you and dh can determine whether her arguments hold any basis or not.

 

If it were me, I'd examine reasons why what I'd felt some of what she said hit home, and then have a frank, and open discussion with dh, about whether we need to adjust our parenting style.

 

Then, I would go back to sister (and family), and basically tell them:

 

"We have considered your criticisms. We agreed (or disagreed) on points

x, y

, and

z

. We understand why you feel the way you do. Now, we think you owe us the same courtesy of respect (that we have shown you), and that includes the way in which you approach us in future with your concerns. If you cannot afford us that respect, then we will be forced to limit interactions. Polite, constructive advice is one thing; emotional gang-piling is another. Please learn the difference."

 

 

That is how I'd handle it. And, then I'd go on raising my dc the way dh and I had agreed on. JMO.

[HS Mom in NC]

It's rude for anyone to offer unsolicited advice.

 

It's perfectly fine for minors to really want/need their parents' approval. I don't think it's healthy for adults to have a deep need for it-I think that when they do it's a sign of some other significant issue that needs addressing. Maybe a professional counselor can help you with this and bring some peace to this aspect of your life.

 

I think your family might have some boundary issues and until you are more comfortable with establishing boundaries, you may need to put some distance between yourself and your relatives. It sounds like there might also be role reversals in your family and that's chaotic for children. Maybe that's feeding some of the 16 year old's behavior.

 

Are you trying to avoid conflict with your husband over his interactions with your son? Are you trying to please him at your son's expense? Are you trying to avoid boundaries with your husband? Could these be other issues a counselor could help you with?

[Stacie Leigh]

Do you not see how this:

 

 

 

could be a warning flag regarding this:

 

Perhaps the reason this whole thing bothers you so much, is that if what you did the first time with your sis didn't work like you wished, you are afraid of making mistakes this go-round with your ds that will cause him to go against your values, as well.

 

I don't know you or your family, so I can't judge how healthy/ unhealthy your relationship is with them. I can only go with what you are telling me, and what you've said is:

 

1. Your sister is 16, but her opinion is not just hers; it is backed by your entire family of origin (or you suspect)

 

2. You were influential in how your sister was raised, in the early years.

 

3. You are bothered by some of what she said because you've had your own doubts/ questions along the same lines.

 

 

Ok, to me, the response to that isn't to demonize your 16 year old sister, and discuss in a condescending tone how she thinks she knows it all. Certainly, you sister should have been more respectful in how she shared her concerns; but the manner of how she shared doesn't make the message necessarily wrong. Nor does her age. You should weigh her arguments based on their merits alone, irrespective of the person making them. Only you and dh can determine whether her arguments hold any basis or not.

 

If it were me, I'd examine reasons why what I'd felt some of what she said hit home, and then have a frank, and open discussion with dh, about whether we need to adjust our parenting style.

 

Then, I would go back to sister (and family), and basically tell them:

 

"We have considered your criticisms. We agreed (or disagreed) on points

x, y

, and

z

. We understand why you feel the way you do. Now, we think you owe us the same courtesy of respect (that we have shown you), and that includes the way in which you approach us in future with your concerns. If you cannot afford us that respect, then we will be forced to limit interactions. Polite, constructive advice is one thing; emotional gang-piling is another. Please learn the difference."

 

 

That is how I'd handle it. And, then I'd go on raising my dc the way dh and I had agreed on. JMO.

 

 

Yes, I do see it. That was never in question... I'm not an oblivious idiot. The bottom line is that DH and I profoundly disagree on how to discipline this child... and how to motivate him. That leaves a chink for everyone to get into because they can see the tension over it and how it affects DS. They know DH won't bend because he's (always) convinced he's right, so they go after me.

 

I think they want me to magically fix it all or somehow *make* DH change his mind. They aren't interested in how many "creative" ideas I've come up with help circumvent the stress or how many times I've dragged the issue before our pastor, marriage counselor, etc... They just see that it's not "right" yet and feel the need to make me aware (again) that they don't approve. This time, the level of pointing out how even the things done with the most care and best intentions are just more ways I'm blowing it really stung. I can understand them feeling that we're too hard on him, but it's tough to take that they think that the time I put into teaching him is useless and every decision I make is a poor one.

 

I grew up with a dad who couldn't be pleased so I know alllll about it. Swore I wouldn't marry anyone like him and well, you know where that'll get you.

 

DH is extremely driven and intense and he, no matter how he's told by me, a marriage counselor, the kids, and family, he doesn't realize how impossible he's making it for anyone to ever please him and how that would make anyone want to throw in the towel. A high standard is a good thing. An impossible one is the enemy of a high standard. People will not chase their tails forever trying to please someone when they know they'll fail every.time.

 

I try and tow the line as best I can, within reasonable limits, because I think that having one parent cast as the monster and another as a big coddler that babies him will just screw him up worse.

 

I think he can handle a lot in terms of what we require of him, but DH needs to learn to put some affirmation and personal time in the kid's bank if he wants to make that many withdrawals in terms of requirements and I just need to remember that he's only 8 when things get crazy.

[Mama Geek]

I think after your last post, I am changing my mind some on the advice. It sounds like you and your immediate family do need some separation for your sisters and anyone else from the outside trying to get involved. If you and dh are trying to work on problems that you have with a counselor and are trying to improve problems that you have you don't need others in your family giving you advice that may be very detrimental to you marriage.

 

When we were first married my dh always talked to his parents when we were having problems. When we worked through our problems we were fine but there was trouble between me and the IL's esp. MIL. Can you guys relocate for a year or 2 with his job while you try to work through some of these tougher issues?

[Stacie Leigh]

I think after your last post, I am changing my mind some on the advice. It sounds like you and your immediate family do need some separation for your sisters and anyone else from the outside trying to get involved. If you and dh are trying to work on problems that you have with a counselor and are trying to improve problems that you have you don't need others in your family giving you advice that may be very detrimental to you marriage.

 

When we were first married my dh always talked to his parents when we were having problems. When we worked through our problems we were fine but there was trouble between me and the IL's esp. MIL. Can you guys relocate for a year or 2 with his job while you try to work through some of these tougher issues?

 

 

In a rare moment of clarity, DH will concede *just a bit* that he is too harsh or that maybe he has some hurts of his own from his past that need to be addressed. I assume it's from years of me and others chipping away at the issue with him.

 

My family is the type that has their noses in everything. I've wished we could relocate many times, but DH just got a great job less than 3 years ago and it's not one he could transfer with. We also just bought our first house this year and it's a fixer upper so it will probably be years before it's ready to sell again.

 

I love my family... they've been very generous and they love us a lot, but they don't have any boundaries and as many posters pointed out, I'm not very good with them myself. I don't know how to put up a simple safety fence. It's either a free for all or a giant stone wall because navigating the innumerable dynamics that involve a thousand subsets is incredibly exhausting and time consuming.

[Mama Geek]

In a rare moment of clarity, DH will concede *just a bit* that he is too harsh or that maybe he has some hurts of his own from his past that need to be addressed. I assume it's from years of me and others chipping away at the issue with him.

 

My family is the type that has their noses in everything. I've wished we could relocate many times, but DH just got a great job less than 3 years ago and it's not one he could transfer with. We also just bought our first house this year and it's a fixer upper so it will probably be years before it's ready to sell again.

 

I love my family... they've been very generous and they love us a lot, but they don't have any boundaries and as many posters pointed out, I'm not very good with them myself. I don't know how to put up a simple safety fence. It's either a free for all or a giant stone wall because navigating the innumerable dynamics that involve a thousand subsets is incredibly exhausting and time consuming.

 

I don't know if I have helped you any, but you got me to thinking. Dh and I have a list of goals for our dd, who is only 1 by the way, and I am going to add in learn how to establish and enforce healthy boundaries. That one will probably be a challenge since we struggle with it like so many others, but maybe just maybe I know enough to teach her more than I am able to do at this point. I think I am going to start a new thread asking for those who have established boundaries and have been successful without ruining relationships with their families to share how they did it.

[EKS]

People who are 16yo can be overbearing with their opinions. Not only that they can have opinions that are based on nothing substantial. (Ask me how I know!)

 

I would ignore her, and if she continues to be obnoxious about it, reduce your visits.

[Stacie Leigh]

I don't know if I have helped you any, but you got me to thinking. Dh and I have a list of goals for our dd, who is only 1 by the way, and I am going to add in learn how to establish and enforce healthy boundaries. That one will probably be a challenge since we struggle with it like so many others, but maybe just maybe I know enough to teach her more than I am able to do at this point. I think I am going to start a new thread asking for those who have established boundaries and have been successful without ruining relationships with their families to share how they did it.

 

I'd love to read a thread like that... I agree that it's something I want to do a better job of teaching my children.

[Aelwydd]

Yes, I do see it. That was never in question... I'm not an oblivious idiot. The bottom line is that DH and I profoundly disagree on how to discipline this child... and how to motivate him. That leaves a chink for everyone to get into because they can see the tension over it and how it affects DS. They know DH won't bend because he's (always) convinced he's right, so they go after me.

 

I think they want me to magically fix it all or somehow *make* DH change his mind. They aren't interested in how many "creative" ideas I've come up with help circumvent the stress or how many times I've dragged the issue before our pastor, marriage counselor, etc... They just see that it's not "right" yet and feel the need to make me aware (again) that they don't approve. This time, the level of pointing out how even the things done with the most care and best intentions are just more ways I'm blowing it really stung. I can understand them feeling that we're too hard on him, but it's tough to take that they think that the time I put into teaching him is useless and every decision I make is a poor one.

 

I grew up with a dad who couldn't be pleased so I know alllll about it. Swore I wouldn't marry anyone like him and well, you know where that'll get you.

 

DH is extremely driven and intense and he, no matter how he's told by me, a marriage counselor, the kids, and family, he doesn't realize how impossible he's making it for anyone to ever please him and how that would make anyone want to throw in the towel. A high standard is a good thing. An impossible one is the enemy of a high standard. People will not chase their tails forever trying to please someone when they know they'll fail every.time.

 

I try and tow the line as best I can, within reasonable limits, because I think that having one parent cast as the monster and another as a big coddler that babies him will just screw him up worse.

 

I think he can handle a lot in terms of what we require of him, but DH needs to learn to put some affirmation and personal time in the kid's bank if he wants to make that many withdrawals in terms of requirements and I just need to remember that he's only 8 when things get crazy.

 

 

Geez, everyone is convinced of their own opinion, including your DH, and nobody wants to listen or respect your opinion.

 

You can put distance between you and your family, but your DH represents a bigger challenge. Look, I'm not a marriage therapist, so I won't pretend to tell you how to fix this issue with your DH. But, you should not just kowtow to everything he says, either. That's your ds, too, and you actually carried him for 9 months and birthed him. If DH won't listen to you, and he's being too harsh, YOU need to take steps to protect your DS.

 

Who else is going to do it?

[LibraryLover]

I don't have time to read this whole thread but the fact that your sister was homeschooled, and now feels so vehemently opposed to HSing, says that there are much deeper issues afoot. Have you heard her out -- not on what she thinks about your ds but about her experiences? I'd bet that her issues with YOUR choice to hs have to do with her negative experiences, not what she sees in your son. Perhaps you can explain the ways that you are doing it differently from what she associates with HSing.

 

.

 

 

I wondered that as well. Maybe she is coming from a place of pain and care? Maybe she truly is worried for your child-- right or wrong. She is probably too young to seperate her own experiences from your child's. She may be conflating them. She may be hypersensitive to them. (Is your dh too hard on your child? Does he get in trouble a lot for minor things (getting a drink from the fridge, fi?) ) Do you think that could be painful for her to watch? If you raised her, she has some bad parent experiences, right? This could be clouding everything for her.

 

A 16 yr old may be mouthy and ignorant, but I have known very empathic and perceptive children. I gave birth to two of the type. Usually, if they notice something, it's something worth noticing. I swear my youngest is psychic.

 

If she is butting in without reason, or even with reason, I would seriously think about her spending less time in your home. She has some stuff she is trying to work out (is my gut) but she doesn't need to to that in your home, in from of your child.

Edited August 1, 2011 by LibraryLover

[JVA]

Stacie- First of all- it's no one's BUSINESS what you and your dh decide about your son's education.

 

Secondly- they should NEVER disparrage your decisions in front of your children

 

Thirdly- you MAY have to tell them all that this issue is off limits for discussion if they continue to be disrespectful. I would draw the line after the FIRST comment and tell them "NO MORE". No second chances. Otherwise the children are off limits. Seriously. Yes, you want a relationship for them but there are limits and boundaries that you should enforce. Hope the situation improves. We've BTDT.

 

Have you read the Boundaries book/s? Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-No--Inspirio-Zondervan-Miniature/dp/0762421029/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1312232172&sr=8-2

[Stacie Leigh]

Geez, everyone is convinced of their own opinion, including your DH, and nobody wants to listen or respect your opinion.

 

You can put distance between you and your family, but your DH represents a bigger challenge. Look, I'm not a marriage therapist, so I won't pretend to tell you how to fix this issue with your DH. But, you should not just kowtow to everything he says, either. That's your ds, too, and you actually carried him for 9 months and birthed him. If DH won't listen to you, and he's being too harsh, YOU need to take steps to protect your DS.

 

Who else is going to do it?

 

 

I do protect my DS... and it's been to the detriment of my marriage. I have lost a lot of love and most all of the confidence my DH had in me over the issue of DS in particular.

 

I basically bugged the pastor til he told DH that we MUST see a counselor if DH wanted to continue in ministry opportunities at the church as a leader. So we are going. It's not the first time, but we're committed to sticking it out for a while this time. It's not fun, but I guess that's because we're making progress.

 

DH openly admits to me and the counselor that parenting DS has been the greatest challenge to our marriage period and that he doesn't "get" DS, who is very like me. I've told him that means he needs to take my word for it when I know where DS is coming from, but he's sure if I will just tow the line, DS will behave. I know it's not that simple.

 

I'm FAR from perfect, but I'm taking more heat as an advocate than I am for my own actions. DH is mad at me for DS's and my family's behavior. DS and my fam are mad at me about DH's behavior.

 

At our last marriage counseling session I flat out told the counselor, in front of DH, that I'm well aware that I'm far from a perfect wife. I told him I know I have some personal things I need to work on and if DH could ratchet down the intensity with DS and our marriage, then I could take the time to work on those things but as they stand now, I spend my time and energy surviving, defending myself and the kids. It's near impossible to turn the magnifying glass and tweezers on yourself when you're in defense mode, needing both arms to hold up the shield.

[LibraryLover]

:grouphug: OK, reading the above, I see there is a giant backstory I missed first go-'round.

 

I think your sister is sensitive and loves you...and this is her way of being on your side...maybe? :grouphug:

 

So now, for me, she is not just a 16 yr old who thinks she knows eveything. She is a 16 year old little sister who loves you and is clutching at straws to want to make things better for you, in her own awkward and young way.

[Caterpiller]

BTDT as well.

 

16 year old sister isn't a child. But she isn't an adult either. She has genuine concerns though they may be ill placed. She has had bad homeschooling experiances. Many people young and old have very black and white opinions about things. Very few are able to take a situtation and believe it will be different for others then I was for them. She has learned from experiance that things will be X way and it will be hard to convience her otherwise.

 

I think that you need to tell her that homeschooling is not something up for discussion any more. You know her concerns and her opinions and she has heard yours. That's the end. You can't change her mind and she can't change yours. In life we sometimes have to learn to let things go. She can choose to be an adult and let it go, or you will be forced to treat her as you would a child and remove her from the situtation. You would do that by not speaking with her about it, and not allowing her to visit during school hours or school trips. If she insists to have a tantrum like a child about the sitituation, walk away. If you can't then treat it the same as you would a child, say, "We aren't discussing that." and ignore it.

 

As for the rest of the family, they are holding their tongues. Let them continue to do it. You do not need to involve them in your decision to homeschool. It is not your responsibility to coddle them. When you and your husband got married you became your own sepperate family that can make decisions for yourself sepperate from either of your families. Unless invited into a sitituation they have no say. When DH and I were first married I had to learn the above fast or be swallowed by my in laws. The world does not evolve around them. Your world revolves around your husband, kids, and YOU.

 

As for your husband, That is a different matter all around but it is a matter that is at the root of your family and will have an effect on everthing you do. I have often heard that it is easy for parents to remember how young their first born is after having another because the youngest one seems SO YOUNG in comparrison. This is usually even truer if #1 is a boy and #2 is a girl. The boy is expected to be a little man. There is actually nothing wrong with that. As long as he is shown lots of love and affection there is nothing wrong with expecting more out of him as long as its age approperaite. I think honestly the first year of school is a "growing up" thing. It is time when you look back on your child and wonder, "Have I done right by him?" and "Am I doing right by him?" Which is good. BUT I would make sure you take an honest look and don't negate all the good things you and your husband have done for him. It is so easy to focus on the bad and forget the rest especially when a band of negative nancies are there to remind you of all the bad.

[WishboneDawn]

I do protect my DS... and it's been to the detriment of my marriage. I have lost a lot of love and most all of the confidence my DH had in me over the issue of DS in particular.

 

I basically bugged the pastor til he told DH that we MUST see a counselor if DH wanted to continue in ministry opportunities at the church as a leader. So we are going. It's not the first time, but we're committed to sticking it out for a while this time. It's not fun, but I guess that's because we're making progress.

 

DH openly admits to me and the counselor that parenting DS has been the greatest challenge to our marriage period and that he doesn't "get" DS, who is very like me. I've told him that means he needs to take my word for it when I know where DS is coming from, but he's sure if I will just tow the line, DS will behave. I know it's not that simple.

 

I'm FAR from perfect, but I'm taking more heat as an advocate than I am for my own actions. DH is mad at me for DS's and my family's behavior. DS and my fam are mad at me about DH's behavior.

 

At our last marriage counseling session I flat out told the counselor, in front of DH, that I'm well aware that I'm far from a perfect wife. I told him I know I have some personal things I need to work on and if DH could ratchet down the intensity with DS and our marriage, then I could take the time to work on those things but as they stand now, I spend my time and energy surviving, defending myself and the kids. It's near impossible to turn the magnifying glass and tweezers on yourself when you're in defense mode, needing both arms to hold up the shield.

 

:grouphug: You're doing a good job with this and are a good mom and wife. It's a shame your family can't see this. Do you think maybe just telling your family straight-out that you need their support right now to get through things and not their criticism would help?

[Aelwydd]

:grouphug: You're doing a good job with this and are a good mom and wife. It's a shame your family can't see this. Do you think maybe just telling your family straight-out that you need their support right now to get through things and not their criticism would help?

 

 

I agree. Good for you defending your ds. I feel badly for you, being "surrounded on all sides" as it were. I'm hopeful that the therapy might get through to your DH though.

 

It sounds hellaciously stressful on you. I know it doesn't help much coming from an internet board, but you are doing the right thing.

 

Do you have any friends to lean on, or get some emotional support? You really should have that!

[Mama Geek]

Please separate your family from your parents and siblings and yourself for awhile. I know you said that you can't move, can you tell them that you need some time to work on things with your family and that you still love them, but this is the way it has to be for now? Let your counselor do his job. There is some healing that needs to take place between you and your husband and your siblings and parents are slowing that down and making it worse.

[Stacie Leigh]

I agree. Good for you defending your ds. I feel badly for you, being "surrounded on all sides" as it were. I'm hopeful that the therapy might get through to your DH though.

 

It sounds hellaciously stressful on you. I know it doesn't help much coming from an internet board, but you are doing the right thing.

 

Do you have any friends to lean on, or get some emotional support? You really should have that!

 

Your understanding is touching to me... thank you.

 

I have 3 close friends who have a good idea of what's going one, one of which knows the details. They are incredible and have given up far too many girls nights to hand me tissues and encourage me. That said, it's my day-to-day life and it must get horribly old for them that things are still the way they are. Sometimes I feel that I should just disappear from that friendship circle because I'm like a lead weight in a group of fun girls with great marriages. (I know they have their flaws and issues too, but I feel like mine drag everyone down all the time.)

 

Even if I put on a smile and just go have fun and not talk about it, I know they're aware that I'm going back to face it all at the end of the night.

 

If they think I'm a drag, they haven't let on. I try to be there for them too, but I still feel that it's one sided with a friend like me, lol!

 

 

Please separate your family from your parents and siblings and yourself for awhile. I know you said that you can't move, can you tell them that you need some time to work on things with your family and that you still love them, but this is the way it has to be for now? Let your counselor do his job. There is some healing that needs to take place between you and your husband and your siblings and parents are slowing that down and making it worse.

 

It's complicated. My dad being a pastor means that my parents have a spiritual/biblical take on everything... including me taking some time. It could cause very long term offense that could create more stress and problems than it's worth. I know I'd be seen as horribly ungrateful as they've bailed me/us out more than once when DH tried to launch his own business and we lost it all plus they offer emotional support (along with the criticism, lol) through this difficult marriage. I'm certain it would confuse and hurt them no matter how I said it. Even if I didn't make it formal and just bowed out of family things for a while (which I have done in the past) it turns into more drama than I can handle.

[cathmom]

DH is mad at me for DS's and my family's behavior. DS and my fam are mad at me about DH's behavior.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

I know how it feels to be stuck between your dh and your family. Again, I will say that the best thing we did was move a day's drive away. Also, I decided that I'd rather have anybody else (or everybody else) in the world mad at me than dh, so if it comes down to what my family thinks or what he thinks, I'm going with what he thinks.

 

It's really hard to act differently around your family of origin. You're in a complex situation, and I really hope you can find some breathing space.

[Orthodox6]

Often, what is defended as "spiritual and Biblical" is neither.

 

May you be blessed with discernment and healing for what appear to be problems with both of your families. :grouphug:

 

 

It's complicated. My dad being a pastor means that my parents have a spiritual/biblical take on everything...

[cathmom]

It's complicated. My dad being a pastor means that my parents have a spiritual/biblical take on everything... including me taking some time.

 

Have you asked them what their take is on Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:4-6, and Mark 10: 6-8? :D

 

(the "leave and cleave" verses)

[SailorMom]

Just adding my $.02 (probably already been said....)

She's 16. Whether you are her sister or not - she is being very rude to an adult. You need to let her know what her place really is - which is -uh - having absolutely no opinion about the situation with your children.

She has absolutely no idea what she is talking about.

Shoot her down and tell her to stay out of it, and tell her that you don't want the opinion of an immature, bossy, and rude 16 yo.