ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) Okay, this is getting silly. I don't care if I'm breaking rules or not. All this tiptoeing around is getting annoying.:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie: I pm'd the moderators earlier expressing my frustration with us being told not to discuss the program in question. They kindly pm'd me back and told me that they locked the threads and deleted the thread where we were critical of his "big report" because he threatened to sue them over it. (The big report was something he wrote in an effort to explain his theory on writing and why his program was effective.) They said it would probably be messy because it was parents saying critical things but that they chose just to get rid of it. Since I pm'd them they have gone back and deleted ALL of his posts (the ones where he was talking up his program) and I think they've removed him from the active member list. I have no problem with them removing ALL of his posts. I had issue with them only removing the ones that were critical of him. I'm not sure how they will handle future inquiries regarding his program though. New members aren't going to know that it is a taboo subject. Hope that gives a little more explanation to those in the dark. :D I think that is very fair. I am so glad I checked into this thread this morning. I still think that we were critical but in no way did defamatory, but hey. So, he was a spoil sport.:glare: In summary, WwV has been handled really well. I am happy to see that things were not in the author's favor. I felt it was a disservice not to allow dissenting opinion and favor only those that did challenge. This is probably not a bad resource for a writing. I have not used it, but from what I have read from other posters and general web-related comments, it is great for structured writing or remedial work. That said, the resource itself was not what challenged me. This appears to be rare and the Hive is choosing to err on the side of caution. I think in the future this is an event worth noting. And, uh, love the kilts! Edited July 31, 2011 by ChrissySC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Dh says that according to the hive social structure, it is the responsibility of the worker bees to dress their queen. Therefore, as a good worker I have searched the world over and found an appropriate get-up for SWB. I think we should make her wear it! It's silk and very classy. So, yes, I embrace the new hive uniform as well as our banner, "Don't poke the hive!" I am not certain I would go for the traditional kilt. I am more inclined to see myself in that tartan in a long skirt, while blouse, shawl, and tam. I think the trousers would make me look like a Scottish blue whale. We should meet somewhere with good chocolate, possibly some wine, but most definitely a little rum and my mother-in-law's to die for rum cake. The question on everyone's mind is....will Spycar, Father of Pearl, and our other hive drones rise to the occasion and don the appropriate kilt? We can't leave these men to do curriculum reviews and joust with the enemy, however. According to wikipedia, drones have no stingers, no self-defences so we'll have to team up as bodyguards and protect them from the evils of he who must be named his deatheaters-of-unworthy-programs! Faith And she will never get mistaken for some woman in a black shirt going through airport security again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) I was thinking - if we should tire of our very informal homeschool dress - perhaps we could use a homeschool uniform though the kids' choices don't include this color. LOL I am now intrigued by Sport Kilt. Hmmm... there is a bee-ish pattern for kids. Edited July 31, 2011 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I have no problem with them removing ALL of his posts. I had issue with them only removing the ones that were critical of him. I'm not sure how they will handle future inquiries regarding his program though. New members aren't going to know that it is a taboo subject. Hope that gives a little more explanation to those in the dark. :D I don't have a blog, but perhaps someone who does would care to document the kerfuffle, and any critiques, so people can be pointed there (and google can "hit" there) without having poor PHP involved. Surely they aren't going to go about suing individual bloggers? And may the fleas of a thousand camels rest in their various unshaven hairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 And may the fleas of a thousand camels rest in their various unshaven hairs. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 LOL - fleas, kilts, and camels!!! I stand by the ammended actions of the moderators though. And, I think some blogging might just be in order! I need to add a Gripe section to my blog maybe, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I know of a certain writing program that I'll never be interested in using now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntPol Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I already own this program but I've taken it out of my signature. Can I get a PM please??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 I already own this program but I've taken it out of my signature. Can I get a PM please??? Pm'ed you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I know of a certain writing program that I'll never be interested in using now. I think that everyone who feels this way should email the author and let him know just what kind of marketing mistake he made with his ridiculous lawsuit threats. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 I think that everyone who feels this way should email the author and let him know just what kind of marketing mistake he made with his ridiculous lawsuit threats. ;) I'm afraid that his email provider would have a fit. Were there not more than 10k views alone? :lol: Great idea though. I would hate to be working for his domain provider though! And I don't, so go ahead.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I think that everyone who feels this way should email the author and let him know just what kind of marketing mistake he made with his ridiculous lawsuit threats. ;)Please don't do this unless you (plural) have a reasoned argument to present -- and I'm not saying you (singular and plural) don't :001_smile:. E-mail bombing is petty, abusive, and generally accomplishes nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansclan89 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I know I'm late, but can I have a pm? Please? Thanks, Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 I know I'm late, but can I have a pm? Please? Thanks, Amy Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Please don't do this unless you (plural) have a reasoned argument to present -- and I'm not saying you (singular and plural) don't :001_smile:. E-mail bombing is petty, abusive, and generally accomplishes nothing. :iagree: I was being humorous in my position against, but this is an IT nightmare! :lol: Please don't. Some poor person will spend hours getting yelled at for the collapse of the domain and the email systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 And as you stomp your foot and pout... You did not read. It was a certain person's attitude and response that has left us absolutely horrified. The program that cannot be named has been held to standards and found worthy. Never has anyone mentioned that the resource in question was not worth use or time. We question the maturity and personal development of the maker. Now, for that, you did nothing new. What you did do, was develop based on a remedial program. This in itself is what is worthy for such a young age. I am sad that the resource will not be held to a higher standard. But, it is not the fault of the dissenting opinion concerning the resource, but the maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) You know, I am not quoting because Response's response will likely get deleted, but I have to say that he has it dead wrong. We are a diverse group here. We come from different educational backgrounds and perspectives. We have kids who are geniuses and special needs. You likely would have found a voice here and an audience for your program here had you not been so hyper-sensitive to criticism. We value open discussion. That means some positive responses and some negative ones. WTM boardies are smart enough to look at the criticism and evaluate the program for themselves. To my knowledge, we have never had an author come on and completely shut down discussion of their product. Never. It reflects badly on you, and it makes us suspicious of WHY you think your product can't stand up to honest, open evaluation. It isn't personal. Really. When you put a program out for public purchase, you also generally are made subject to public opinion. Censorship isn't the best marketing tool. Edited July 31, 2011 by Asenik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 We are a diverse group here. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Actually, I have seen more than one person on this forum say that they were using your program and liked it. Others didn't like it. What EVERYONE dislikes is an author who says "No one is allowed to question my program or insinuate that it won't work for everyone." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Do have to say, gutsy coming back to poke the hive with a stick again. Of course we all know the definition of insanity :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Do have to say, gutsy coming back to poke the hive with a stick again. Of course we all know the definition of insanity :lol: :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 I thought it was childish. The discontent was not aimed at him this time, well not directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Do have to say, gutsy coming back to poke the hive with a stick again. Of course we all know the definition of insanity :lol: :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 This must be the week for universal condemnation of TWTM posters, "you all" generalizations, deleting all old posts, and getting threads shut down. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) This must be the week for universal condemnation of TWTM posters, "you all" generalizations, deleting all old posts, and getting threads shut down. :tongue_smilie: :lol: Edit: Hmmm, hide'n'seek .... bees have great directional sense from what I remember reading - by a great writer too. ;) Edited July 31, 2011 by ChrissySC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I’ve heard everything. You don’t need to email me. What the moderator said was not exactly true. It was more complicated than that. However, nothing I could say would be heard on this forum.I’m an inner-city school teacher who found a system to get severely at-risk students writing well. You are not my audience: institute, academy, genius, elegant. You are not my audience. I can see many of you will always be more insulting than I am willing to be, so I will say only say one thing: I am shocked to see people act as you all act. I have been right from the start. I only wanted your business if my program would help you. I read and studied to find out what you were all about and then I couldn’t figure out why you all were interested in my program anyways. Some people on this forum know my author’s rights were being violated. We have more than our share of authors on this board. I've also worked for and with authors. The moderator did not tell you all. I’m fine with not having your business. You all act like I have been hurting you, when it is quite the opposite. I hope you all move on one day. I'm curious: What "author's rights" were being violated? I also wonder what the moderator supposedly "left out". I'm curious more about the former though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Can we go back to the kilts? He irks me. (Tosses more fits on the floor than my 4yo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Can we go back to the kilts? He irks me. (Tosses more fits on the floor than my 4yo) Grits? Oh, you said kilts! Either one and I'm on board (but I still want to know what "author's rights" he thinks were stepped on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9763653 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Children learn what they live. If they learn to live with spelling errers, they will be poor spelers. If they learn to live with math errers, they will think 1/2 x 1/2 = 1 If they learn to live with science errers, they will think correlation equals causality. If they learn to live with ungood writing mistakes might be maden irregardless of the modality formatting presented thusly. P.S. I spelled some words wrong on purposefully. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Grits? Oh, you said kilts! Either one and I'm on board (but I still want to know what "author's rights" he thinks were stepped on). Perhaps he just needs ... oh wait, that would be mean, and that is not like me. I feel violated. I read it all. :glare: Oh, who has that little aussie boy in kilt? I want him to feed me Grits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Perhaps he just needs ... oh wait, that would be mean, and that is not like me. I feel violated. I read it all. :glare: Oh, who has that little aussie boy in kilt? I want him to feed me Grits! :lol: I had some awesome shrimp and grits this weekend! You don't find that up here very often. Reminded me of home (SC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I don’t know what else to say that hasn’t been said, so here…I couldn’t find Voldemort in a kilt but I did find Snape in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 The things I have done wrong are endless. I was thrown for a loop and I didn’t understand most of what you all were talking about. (I have read all the books now and understand…) From time-to-time I see many people on this forum who are overwhelmed. I was more than overwhelmed, and I didn’t realize just how overwhelmed I was until I blew up. I never said my program could not be reviewed or evaluated. In fact, I can point to quite a few unflattering comments that remain on WTM. At one point, I asked WMT to remove just one post. They wouldn’t. They gave me a legal argument of “Fair Use.†I gave them a legal argument right back; I was able to quote a Harvard law professor who supported my argument. If they would have removed just that one trademarked post, every other negative comment would have remained. This included speculation that my website tried to download a virus onto someone’s computer. When they gave me a legal argument which I could refute, I then strongly suggested they remove the threads with the virus insulations. Those have nothing to do with my program. I have never had a problem with people asking for a refund. However, I have trademarked secrets which I do not want explained in great detail. That’s why I trademarked them. (At least you can’t use my examples straight from the book.) I don’t offer samples and I do use curiosity. Right or wrong… this is my right as an author. WTM won’t let you discuss the program. I will. Someone wrote this on WTM: “I will say, though, that the actual teaching materials are not all that well organized and have some typos and grammatical errors. It's almost like borrowing a pre-publication rough draft.†I wrote them back saying, “I just did a solid update on the program. Some of those problems may be fixed.†I can live with their critique. This person is dealing with the program. If my program is dead on your forum, I can more than handle that. Hundreds of people have posted that it is me attacking WTM. I don’t see that I have ever done that. I accept that I single handedly destroyed my program on this forum. However, I don’t see what you are all so angry about. As I understand, the program cannot be mentioned on this forum. I can live with it either way; however too much water has likely passed under the bridge. I just have three trademarks. They are unique and in good faith. You can’t use my examples from the book to explain the trademarks. That’s not “Fair Use.†That gives away the “heart of the program.†(I didn’t make this up.) They have always been clearly marked on my website, and they are now clearly marked in the program. For some strange reason, I can actually believe this happened the way you are saying it happened. Now I'm extremely curious as to how it actually went down.... I have to say, though, that all the comments about "poking the hive," in my opinion, were not trying to say that you "attacked" anyone, but that you "stirred things up." Poking a beehive or hornet's nest wouldn't be "attacking them;" it would be annoying them and provoking them to attack you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) ;) You may come out of time out now. Apology accepted. (Humor is my anger management, LOL) I was the original OP. My angst was not with your lack of ignorance but for your lack of admittance to that ignorance. The purposeful way I felt that you tried to hide it is also not something that sets well on my table. With that said, I stand by my comments, and even my poor attempts at humor .... Now, unless you want to dress in a kilt .....:lol::lol::lol: Edited July 31, 2011 by ChrissySC Kids - OK girls - Need I explain further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I just have three trademarks. They are unique and in good faith. You can’t use my examples from the book to explain the trademarks. That’s not “Fair Use.” That gives away the “heart of the program.” (I didn’t make this up.) They have always been clearly marked on my website, and they are now clearly marked in the program. I want to say I own your program (got it back when the first exchanges were going on and just before the kerfluffle) and I have used parts of it strategically for just what you say - remedially to quickly get some basics about essay structure down that they hadn't really "gotten" earlier so we could then move to higher level stuff. It has its place. :) I think part of what you have to realize here is the suspicion people have about no samples - while I understand your reluctance to "give away" what you see as secrets, the people here are used to SWB, who has offered to give the first 20 weeks of her new writing program free to anyone who asks, just because it's late at the publisher... most other programs (writing or otherwise) usually have at least a TOC and sample lesson or two. Your position is unusual, and things that are unusual makes some people go :confused: I do think that if way back you had just said, whoops, your original paper was more blog posty rambly musings on the subject and that something more essay-like (thesis, supporting points in logical order, formal writing style) was coming along post-haste, all would have been well. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Mr. Response: (1) there is a risk that your posts might get deleted because registering under a new username is in violation of the board rules; (2) there may be wisdom in keeping off-board discussions off-board; (3) law professors' opinions are not binding legal authority on anyone, so your citation here is not persuasive, though it certainly makes sense that you would seek to protect your intellectual property, to the extent possible; and (4) your sales technique of using curiosity without samples might not be very effective, but yes, that is your right :). Just my two cents :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I think part of what you have to realize here is the suspicion people have about no samples - while I understand your reluctance to "give away" what you see as secrets, the people here are used to SWB, who has offered to give the first 20 weeks of her new writing program free to anyone who asks, just because it's late at the publisher... most other programs (writing or otherwise) usually have at least a TOC and sample lesson or two. Your position is unusual, and things that are unusual makes some people go :confused: I do think that if way back you had just said, whoops, your original paper was more blog posty rambly musings on the subject and that something more essay-like (thesis, supporting points in logical order, formal writing style) was coming along post-haste, all would have been well. :) :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Mr. Response: (1) there is a risk that your posts might get deleted because registering under a new username is in violation of the board rules; (2) there may be wisdom in keeping off-board discussions off-board; (3) law professors' opinions are not binding legal authority on anyone, so your citation here is not persuasive, though it certainly makes sense that you would seek to protect your intellectual property, to the extent possible; and (4) your sales technique of using curiosity without samples might not be very effective, but yes, that is your right :). Just my two cents :) :iagree: I agree with all of the above and especially the bolded. I'm the child of an attorney and grew up reading case law at my father's lap. Literally. When one gathers 4 lawyers in one place and asks for an opinion, one will generally hear at least 5 opinions. So, my guess is that PHP wasn't so much persuaded by your suave legal eagle as simply wanting to avoid a hassle. Note that in that position that they don't say you were right. As for the lack of samples my curiosity leaves me when I can't see what I'm purchasing. I don't have the money to throw around buying a program with the hope that it may work with one or more of my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 So, my guess is that PHP wasn't so much persuaded by your suave legal eagle as simply wanting to avoid a hassle. Note that in that position that they don't say you were right. I believe this is a pretty accurate guess.;) The problem for me was in only deleting posts that seemed to leave discussion of said product in a positive light. (Which, by the way, I'm still not convinced wasn't the original request.) We rely on ALL information to determine if we want to use a product or not. We want the good, bad and ugly. The author of this product conducted himself in a way that, at least to me, weighed upon whether or not I would want to use his product. By eliminating evidence of that behavior future posters weren't left with the whole picture. Then on top of that we were also left with not being allowed to openly discuss ALL aspects of the product, which includes views, opinions, and actions of it's author. Either all posts should have been left (barring those that revealed trademark information) including the negative comments made about the author's ability to compose a comprehensive report, OR all posts should have been removed, including those that painted the author and product in a positive light. The later has now been done. This was never about the product, which is a shame because I do belief that it would be beneficial to some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) The anger is a general anger at being prohibited from discussing a program. Maybe you didn't intend that. I am sure you did not expect the response generated. But we really aren't talking about you any more. The issues are deeper anyhow. Discussing and evaluating programs is a big deal to homeschool moms. We are responsible for making curriculum decisions for our families. I personally use these boards to find out about new programs, good and bad, and evaluate purchasing decisions for my family. I can't see in person all the new programs that come out. I need the product samples and opinions of posters I trust to help me make good decisions. If a publisher gets to decide which programs we can talk about and what we can say about them, it seriously inhibits my research and that is aggravating. I don't want your issues to change how we interact. It isn't about you so much as it is about having a third party tell us what we can or can't discuss on an open forum and how that will affect our ability to make decisions about curriculum choices for our families. Edited July 31, 2011 by Asenik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Tell you what. Y'all talk away about whatever you want, and if there's a further difficulty, we'll let you know. SWB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Tell you what. Y'all talk away about whatever you want, and if there's a further difficulty, we'll let you know. SWB Thanks! I love this place.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Oh my. I go away for a day and look what happens! Bees, kilts, bees in kilts...oh, and now we can talk about the original source of the kerfuffle again! Honestly, I'd rather talk more about the bee tartans - I'd love to have a pleated skirt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 No one has done it yet so ... Pattern Based Writing! No more pms *sigh* TG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Oh my. I go away for a day and look what happens! Bees, kilts, bees in kilts...oh, and now we can talk about the original source of the kerfuffle again! Honestly, I'd rather talk more about the bee tartans - I'd love to have a pleated skirt! I still want that cute aussie from the thread a few months ago to feed me grits!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Thank you SWB. I'm kind of annoyed that he caused everyone to overlook my picture of Snape in a kilt. :tongue_smilie: Or maybe it just wasn't as funny as I thought it was.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 *I* liked it. :001_smile: SWB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Thank you SWB. I'm kind of annoyed that he caused everyone to overlook my picture of Snape in a kilt. :tongue_smilie: Or maybe it just wasn't as funny as I thought it was.:D I liked it! I've had a wee crush on him for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrissySC Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 I still want the cute aussie guy, but I didn't know until I went and looked! That was Snape? Geesh, brown hair looks good on him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.