DH may have a job in Philly-what are the pros/cons of NJ vs. PA?

[jeri]

He will be working south of Philly off of 95 in Lester. Looks like we could live in PA or NJ.

 

Background: We used to live in CT which I understand is like NJ: no reporting, no testing, etc. But no support either. We are moving from a place where we get tons of support but no requirements. I actually like this a lot!

 

Now that I have one entering high school, it might be nice to have access to a science lab, afterschool programs, sports, etc. and I don't know if that's possible in NJ. But maybe you don't get that in PA either. I hate what I read about the PA homeschooling laws, but does the huge amount of control also mean access to extra services?

 

What about cost of living in each suburb? It seems like PA has very high taxes. But having traveled through that southwest corner of NJ, I don't recall much in the way of "civilization." (Don't mean to offend anyone here!)

 

For those of you who read earlier that we thought we were going to Fairfax Cty, well, that's still on the drawing board. We are waiting . . . and waiting . . . and more waiting!

 

thanks.

 

jeri

[Jen in PA]

In PA we do have access to school sports and other extracurricular activities, I'm not sure if that's the case in NJ.

[Carrie12345]

PA has a 3% income tax. NJ's income tax goes to 4% at $35,000 and rises. The property taxes are typically higher in NJ (of course, that can vary by area.)

 

I've been dying to get back into NJ for years, but I'm ready to settle for getting as close to the border (on the PA side) as possible at this point. We would take a HUGE financial hit just sticking one toe over the Delaware.

 

PA regs really don't come with any perks. Individual districts are *allowed to offer you services, but they aren't really required to provide anything but textbooks (if requested) and extracurriculars. My kids play on rec teams.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Homeschooling is not so tough at all in PA according to all of my homeschool friends:D Plus PA has 11 public cyber charter schools if you ever want to go that route:)

 

This site has all of the info you need plus easy forms to use:D I also think there are many homeschool co-ops down that way as well.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~askpauline/index.html

[Barb_]

I hated homeschooling in PA. The regs were a pain, but more than that I resented the interference and implied permission. We often toyed with moving over the river but decided the taxes weren't worth it. The answer was a move to AZ ;)

 

Regardless, I loved living in PA. If you are the bloom where you're planted type the tradeoff (taxes or regulation) will recede into the background once you are there.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

Is it my imagination, or are people in PA friendly? I lived most of my life in CT and people aren't terribly friendly. I'm used to that. NY is only slightly more friendly. But PA..was SO FRIENDLY. DH and I loved it. We don't want to move anytime soon, but I could see us moving there someday.

 

Yeah, once you're outside of Philly you are suddenly in the country. Most of PA has a more midwestern than mid-atlantic feel, I think.

[Ellie]

As far as homeschooling goes, NJ would win for me, hands down. Zero accountability there, versus truckload of accountablity in PA (even though Pauline does a marvelous job of explaining everything on her site :D ).

[nono]

Look, I live in and LOVE NJ. I was born and raised in PA.

 

It's not an easy answer, but overall your answer will depend on a locale by locale comparison. At first blush, PA always seems to win on a comparison, but check the exact town in which you want to live. Same for NJ.

 

That said, in the end, NJ always loses once one figures in insurance costs. The only way to win is to ride a bike. :D Oh, but then, we have the ocean. And, it's wonderful. Just as the 9,845 people in the PA license-plated cars that are at my shore point today.

 

And, no, they aren't nearly as friendly as the NJ locals are. :tongue_smilie:

[EmeraldGirl]

Have you considered Northern Delaware? The commute might be just about the same as NJ. It is very easy to homeschool in DE, just send in your child's name and grade level or ungraded at the beginning of the school year, then state how many days you schooled at the end; no testing; no reporting, easy-peasy.

 

Plus there are many homeschool support groups and activities, one of the largest is Tri-State Home School Network. Also, there are a few homeschool high school programs (Towle, Mt. Sophia Academy, Glasgow HS Academy).

 

Property taxes are much lower than PA and NJ; income taxes a bit higher; no sales tax.

 

Just a thought.... ;)

 

Lisa

Mom to 7 in DE

[Barb_]

Have you considered Northern Delaware? The commute might be just about the same as NJ. It is very easy to homeschool in DE, just send in your child's name and grade level or ungraded at the beginning of the school year, then state how many days you schooled at the end; no testing; no reporting, easy-peasy.

 

Plus there are many homeschool support groups and activities, one of the largest is Tri-State Home School Network. Also, there are a few homeschool high school programs (Towle, Mt. Sophia Academy, Glasgow HS Academy).

 

Property taxes are much lower than PA and NJ; income taxes a bit higher; no sales tax.

 

Just a thought.... ;)

 

Lisa

Mom to 7 in DE

 

:iagree: That would actually be my choice too, if we were to move back to the area.

[AvasMom]

We're in NJ and there is a TON of homeschool support. We have a group that solely provides field trip organization. There's enough that you could easily do a field trip 1-2 times a week if you wanted to. We have a co-op as well that provides enrichment classes, field trips, support group stuff, etc. We honestly have to be careful that we don't get involved in *too* many activities.

[SonshineLearner]

HS in New Jersey would make the decision for me :) Then... you're free to cross over, but not have to hs there. For me, that'd be the end of the discussion.... :)

[DB in NJ]

Look, I live in and LOVE NJ. I was born and raised in PA.

 

It's not an easy answer, but overall your answer will depend on a locale by locale comparison. At first blush, PA always seems to win on a comparison, but check the exact town in which you want to live. Same for NJ.

 

That said, in the end, NJ always loses once one figures in insurance costs. The only way to win is to ride a bike. :D Oh, but then, we have the ocean. And, it's wonderful. Just as the 9,845 people in the PA license-plated cars that are at my shore point today.

 

And, no, they aren't nearly as friendly as the NJ locals are. :tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree:

 

Amen and Amen.

[QueenCat]

PA regs really don't come with any perks. Individual districts are *allowed to offer you services, but they aren't really required to provide anything but textbooks (if requested) and extracurriculars. My kids play on rec teams.

 

Textbooks and extracurriculars are more than you get in many states.

[DB in NJ]

We're in NJ and there is a TON of homeschool support. We have a group that solely provides field trip organization. There's enough that you could easily do a field trip 1-2 times a week if you wanted to. We have a co-op as well that provides enrichment classes, field trips, support group stuff, etc. We honestly have to be careful that we don't get involved in *too* many activities.

 

 

Are we neighbors?? I think we've had this discussion before, but I can't remember.... :001_huh:

 

Is it a base support group of another one in the area? I may be looking for something for us for the fall.

[justamouse]

Even in that corner of NJ, there is a TON of stuff to do. The shore is a spit away, there are zoos, lots of nature (I believe the Audubon bird observatory is in Cape May, no?) historical centers, museums, tons of stuff. And, bonus, Philly is right there with all of its historical treasure.

 

Yes, I pay a butt load of taxes, but living here is worth it to me. I have ultimate freedom in homeschooling and I have everything at my fingertips.

 

And, I'm another one that thinks NJers are super friendly. We have a very diverse population and it makes people open and friendly.

Edited July 5, 2011 by justamouse

[justasque]

NJ has easier laws, but if you plan on doing stuff in PA (like hubby working) don't forget to factor in the bridge tolls; they are not insignificant.

 

DE has a long-standing Christian homeschooling community, with several well-established groups and co-ops, plus an "unschoolers and others" group. They also have a large selection of (not cheap) private schools of many varieties (Catholic (both archdiocese and privately-run), Quaker, independent, etc.). They have quite a few public high schools including one with an IB program, a magnet school for bright kids (not sure of the specifics), and a magnet school for the performing arts. They have an active amateur theater community. The Brandywine Hundred Library in North Wilmington is my favorite library of all time - lots of resources, helpful staff, and a 99-book per card check-out limit. (Yes, we've sometimes had to use several cards!) In DE, homeschoolers have basically no rights to any interaction with the schools.

 

PA has all the museums and historical sites in Philly, and Lester is close enough that you can go into town whenever you want. (Lester itself is somewhat industrial; you might want to check out the nearby suburbs, a bit west of the I-95/Macdade Blvd. corridor. Swarthmore, and its poorer neighhbor Wallingford, have what are generally considered good schools due to the college population.) The laws are annoying, but rarely cause serious issues. If you are doing anything vaguely resembling WTM, you should be just fine. In PA you have the right to participate in extracurriculars, and the school has to lend you textbooks, however this doesn't always go as smoothly as it should. There are several inexpensive diploma programs for homeschoolers, which award state-recognized diplomas if you fulfill certain requirements. There are pros and cons to using these programs; roughly speaking they seem most useful to those for whom a high school diploma is likely to be their highest level of education, and those who are applying to state colleges. There are a bazillion tuition-free public cyber-charter schools; obviously these come with pros and cons but it is a good option for some families, especially those who struggle to afford curriculum. PA has 501 school districts; each is small and they vary widely as to friendliness to homeschoolers. They also vary widely as to school excellence (for lack of a better term), and property values. Don't underestimate the importance of this when investing in real estate, regardless of whether you will actually be using the school system.

 

The Delaware County homeschooling Yahoo group, 800+ subscribers strong, is an excellent place to ask for input on various neighborhoods etc. around Lester.

 

Honestly, I'd look around and choose your location based on other factors than the home ed laws. If you think you may want to put your kids in school for high school, or use a tuition-free public cyber-charter school, then look closely at those option and add that info to your decision-making process.

 

Oh - and as previous posters mentioned, my web site has tons of info about PA, and even a tiny bit about DE.

[Gailmegan]

Have you considered Northern Delaware? The commute might be just about the same as NJ. It is very easy to homeschool in DE, just send in your child's name and grade level or ungraded at the beginning of the school year, then state how many days you schooled at the end; no testing; no reporting, easy-peasy.

 

Plus there are many homeschool support groups and activities, one of the largest is Tri-State Home School Network. Also, there are a few homeschool high school programs (Towle, Mt. Sophia Academy, Glasgow HS Academy).

 

Property taxes are much lower than PA and NJ; income taxes a bit higher; no sales tax.

 

Just a thought.... ;)

 

Lisa

Mom to 7 in DE

 

I was coming to post the same thing. Actually DE is closer to Lester than NJ is - and you don't have to pay $$$ to cross the river every day. And real estate taxes are cheaper in DE than in PA or NJ. We moved to DE from Phila 'burbs for those exact reasons, not to mention that DE is the easiest state to homeschool in.

[AvasMom]

Are we neighbors?? I think we've had this discussion before, but I can't remember.... :001_huh:

 

Is it a base support group of another one in the area? I may be looking for something for us for the fall.

 

I can't remember either. lol! The co-op is Living Water Home Educators, there's the base group, and then handsonlearning10 is a yahoo group that's the field trip group. We also joined the New Egypt group but don't do much with them.

[DB in NJ]

I can't remember either. lol! The co-op is Living Water Home Educators, there's the base group, and then handsonlearning10 is a yahoo group that's the field trip group. We also joined the New Egypt group but don't do much with them.

 

I thought you might say Living Water! I've *almost* joined about a zillion times, but I never do.....the classes always seem to fill up before I even get around to looking at the schedule for the upcoming year :glare:

 

I live about 10 minutes from Ft Dix, in Eastampton (right next to Mt. Holly; just west of Pemberton).

 

I think I'll go check out the yahoo group :001_smile:

[jeri]

I don't think we thought of DE . . . Well, as as some of your mentioned, we do want an excellent school system both for property values and since we are sending two of our six to school in the fall. Still curious to hear what people have to say, but in the meantime, can someone explain what a borough is? And a township? And how do the school systems fit in here? In CT, we had a town or a city to which you paid property taxes. Within that town or city was a library, school system, fire dept, etc. We also lived in a county, but that had nothing to do with anything, really! I think both PA and NJ have this system, right?

 

jeri

[Luckymama]

I third (fourth?) the recommendation for Delaware! The libraries are fantastic, we don't have sales tax, the roads are generally in better shape than PA, homeschooling regulations are beyond simple, there is a wide variety of housing, we have a bargain for in-state tuition at the University of Delaware, performing arts can be enjoyed year-round, the Delaware beaches are wonderful, etc.

 

My older kids attend/ed two different private high schools. They received generous merit scholarships based on their entrance exam scores. Testing is done during the first part of December.

 

The Red Clay school district contains many highly-regarded magnet schools, including the nationally-known, math- and science-focused Charter School of Wilmington (9-12), the Cab Calloway School of the Arts (6-8, 9-12), and the Conrad Schools of Science (6-8, 9-12). An additional high school is transitioning to contain an IB academy. Other public school districts do not have as many secondary school choices yet with Delaware's school choice and entrance testing/auditions, out-of-district students attend those magnet schools.

[cathmom]

No see we thought people in Philly were particularly friendly. :D

 

Hey, youze! :D

[Stacy in NJ]

of activites or services located in many communities here. We have rec sports teams, a large and well served YMCA, a high quality art association that offers classes, high quality museums and libraries, state parks with many educational programs, community music and theatre programs, a plethora of church communites..... I could go on.

 

Along with the population density and high taxes come alot of community services and involvment. The hands off homeschool laws are awesome.

[Stacy in NJ]

A borough is basically a small town with its own government. I township is a larger area with its own government with a central town or small city at its center. Some boroughs share school systems, others have their town. For example, the bourgh I live in has its own school district, but the neighboring borough pays a "tuition" to allow its students to attend our district schools. The town we are in the process of moving to is a township on the edge of a small city. They share the same school district. the township has its own elementary and middle schools but shares the high school. You really have to investigate each town and district individually because there just isn't a single type of system. Jersey schools are typically quiet good but do a google search and look at the Great Schools website to get info on any district because the vary significantly with the demographics of the locals.

 

There are many, many small boroughs, towns, and townships in Jersey.

 

I don't think we thought of DE . . . Well, as as some of your mentioned, we do want an excellent school system both for property values and since we are sending two of our six to school in the fall. Still curious to hear what people have to say, but in the meantime, can someone explain what a borough is? And a township? And how do the school systems fit in here? In CT, we had a town or a city to which you paid property taxes. Within that town or city was a library, school system, fire dept, etc. We also lived in a county, but that had nothing to do with anything, really! I think both PA and NJ have this system, right?

 

jeri

Edited July 5, 2011 by Stacy in NJ

[AvasMom]

I thought you might say Living Water! I've *almost* joined about a zillion times, but I never do.....the classes always seem to fill up before I even get around to looking at the schedule for the upcoming year :glare:

 

I live about 10 minutes from Ft Dix, in Eastampton (right next to Mt. Holly; just west of Pemberton).

 

I think I'll go check out the yahoo group :001_smile:

 

Oh yeah you have to be super quick for LWE classes. This was our first year and we knew we had to be fast. The registration technically opened at 10am on Achievement Day but the day's events started at 9 so we took a chance and went at 9:30 to see if they were registering yet. They were and we were already #25 on the list! We did get all our first picks though. :hurray: If you are like "I'll get to it when I get to it" there's no way you will get in. I stalked the website until I saw the date and time registration started. Now watch us totally hate it since I was so on the ball about getting them in (that's not typically the case for us...lol!).

[Wheres Toto]

A borough is basically a small town with its own government. I township is a larger area with its own government with a central town or small city at its center. Some boroughs share school systems, others have their town. For example, the bourgh I live in has its own school district, but the neighboring borough pays a "tuition" to allow its students to attend our district schools. The town we are in the process of moving to is a township on the edge of a small city. They share the same school district. the township has its own elementary and middle schools but shares the high school. You really have to investigate each town and district individually because there just isn't a single type of system. Jersey schools are typically quiet good but do a google search and look at the Great Schools website to get info on any district because the vary significantly with the demographics of the locals.

 

There are many, many small boroughs, towns, and townships in Jersey.

 

I'd vote for NJ. :001_smile: Definitely a lot of stuff for homeschoolers. Within 5 miles of my house I have homeschool gymnastics, bowling, art classes, music classes, 3 different field trip groups. I love our library system, the easy access to NYC or Philly. Many, many historical sites, Southern NJ has a lot of nature preserves, the Pinelands, the shore. The Cape May Zoo is beautiful and free. And you can get from one end to the other in less than 3 1/2 hours (depending on traffic).

 

Taxes can vary greatly from town to town and county to county. I guess I'm used to them since they don't seem too bad and they are somewhat balanced by higher average wages than a lot of places.

 

The borough, township, town stuff can be fairly confusing and fairly inconsistent. Near my area is Parsippany Troy-Hills Township. It has one governing body but is made up of a bunch of smaller towns (5 total I think), some of which have their own post offices and fire departments, but they share police.

 

Then there's Boonton Township which is much smaller, has it's own police and governing body but not it's own post office and no high school.

 

I think the terminology has to do with how it was incorporated way back when (some towns around here have celebrated bicentennials and are approaching 250 years) but they can vary greatly now.

[july19]

I know I'm in the north east part of NJ, but the amount of homeschool activities, class, and opportunities overwhelm me sometimes. My email becomes flooded with stuff from the yahoo group I belong to. I love the people - very friendly and helpful. I moved here from very rural, unspoiled Michigan coastline, and I will admit that NJ is extremely beautiful and not at all like the stereotypes I'd heard so much about.

 

We are moving soon, and I will admit that I won't miss the cost of living :glare: Our property taxes are the same of what my yearly income was as a 22 year old.

 

I agree with the many others to look into Delaware. Seems to be the best of both PA and NJ :001_smile:

[deacongirl]

No see we thought people in Philly were particularly friendly. :D

 

I think so!

[deacongirl]

I don't think we thought of DE . . . Well, as as some of your mentioned, we do want an excellent school system both for property values and since we are sending two of our six to school in the fall. Still curious to hear what people have to say, but in the meantime, can someone explain what a borough is? And a township? And how do the school systems fit in here? In CT, we had a town or a city to which you paid property taxes. Within that town or city was a library, school system, fire dept, etc. We also lived in a county, but that had nothing to do with anything, really! I think both PA and NJ have this system, right?

 

jeri

 

Haddonfield, NJ.

[Jeannie in NJ]

I think I MIGHT have figured out townships.Maybe. We are looking to move to Upper Township in Cape MAy County..This township consists of the small towns Bessley's Point, Marmora, Palermo, Seaville, Petersburg, Tuckahoe, Woodbine and I may be leaving out 1 or 2. They are all very small, and each town just runs into the next, there are signs that tell you which town you are in. The entire population of Upper Township is about 10,000. The towns have one local goverernment and I think a couple of zip codes, the township handles trash pickup . They share schools, it is Upper Township Primary and Uppr Township Middle but the high schoolers are sent over the bridge to Ocean City High School. I think the small towns incorporated together to share services like gov. police, schools, trash, etc. Each town is way too small to handle each on its own.

[proverbs356lady]

He will be working south of Philly off of 95 in Lester. Looks like we could live in PA or NJ.

 

Background: We used to live in CT which I understand is like NJ: no reporting, no testing, etc. But no support either. We are moving from a place where we get tons of support but no requirements. I actually like this a lot!

 

Now that I have one entering high school, it might be nice to have access to a science lab, afterschool programs, sports, etc. and I don't know if that's possible in NJ. But maybe you don't get that in PA either. I hate what I read about the PA homeschooling laws, but does the huge amount of control also mean access to extra services?

In NJ, some of the private schools allow homeschoolers to enroll in high school classes and sports. Most public schools do not. When we lived in NJ I loved having no regulations at all. It was great. There are several very active homeschool groups in the south Jersey area. Many parents also allow their homeschooled children to take classes at the community college during high school. I remember Gloucester County College being very homeschool friendly.

What about cost of living in each suburb? It seems like PA has very high taxes. But having traveled through that southwest corner of NJ, I don't recall much in the way of "civilization." (Don't mean to offend anyone here!)

It sounds like you were probably driving around in Salem County. That's a very rural area. If you were to head north just a little bit you'd enter Gloucester County which starts out fairly rural but becomes much more crowded the further north you go. Taxes in Salem County are probably the lowest but in parts of Gloucester County the property taxes are astronomical.

 

For those of you who read earlier that we thought we were going to Fairfax Cty, well, that's still on the drawing board. We are waiting . . . and waiting . . . and more waiting!

 

thanks.

 

jeri

 

We lived in Clarksboro which is in East Greenwich Township which is in Gloucester County. If we were to move back to the area we'd probably move either to the Pittsgrove area which is in Salem county or back to East Greenwich Twp.

 

As someone else mentioned keep in mind the bridge toll if dh has to commute every day. Another consideration for some people would be the Salem Nuclear Plant which is in Salem County along the river.

[Wheres Toto]

Something noone mentioned yet - we pay less for gas than a lot of areas of the country and we never have to pump our own. ;)

[Stacy in NJ]

:D

 

 

Something noone mentioned yet - we pay less for gas than a lot of areas of the country and we never have to pump our own. ;)

[proverbs356lady]

Something noone mentioned yet - we pay less for gas than a lot of areas of the country and we never have to pump our own. ;)

:hurray: Oh yes! Loved the low gas prices and having someone else pump. I got so spoiled. Glad you mentioned it!

[Luckymama]

When I went to the RFWP Valley Forge conference a few weeks ago, I noticed how much higher (20 cents!) gas was in PA than in Delaware :D

[jeri]

had dh read through everything too and his comment was that everyone seems really happy with where they are! In other words, pros and cons everywhere with no clear cut winner! But you all gave us lots to think about and brought up things we forgot to consider (gas prices vs. car insurance in NJ; cyber charters in PA; actually living in DE; etc.). Bottom line is whether SWB and MCT will be back there next year as well! (And, of course, whether we are moving to Philly or northern VA.)

 

jeri

[ack25]

If you ever decided to put the kids in school, and if your kids are gifted, in PA they qualify for an IEP under special education laws. I so wish we had that here in NJ!

[jeri]

I definitely have one with that characteristic, so this is good to know. I did call the Dept of Ed to ask about Dual Enrollment and found out that this has been discontinued due to budgetary problems :(

 

DH is interviewing for another job today, and we are still waiting to hear on Philly.

 

jeri

[Karenciavo]

Car insurance is not always cheaper in PA. We moved from NJ to Bucks Co. and our insurance increased significantly. On average NJ is higher, but the Philly suburbs, I'm told, are filled with car thieves and chop shops and therefore in that area of PA insurance rates are high.

 

Although I loved living in Bucks Co. because of the outdoor opportunities (hiking, rafting, etc.) I prefer living in NJ. Southern NJ is not as congested as Chester, Montgomery, or Bucks (lower). I live in Camden Co. now, but I lived in Gloucester Co for 13 years. Gloucester Co is very nice, in the country but close to civilization (which to me means Costo, Trader Joe's, B&N, and Wegmans :D). I work in Philly, commutting isn't bad at all from NJ although the $5 toll stinks.

 

Love the homeschool regs. in NJ. We have a ton of co-ops here.