Mama2Many4 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 As a member of the HSLDA, I made my phone calls in to my state legislators and representatives to stop this from passing, but it went through despite our efforts. I'm very upset about this. I can't guarantee that any of my children will want to pursue college instead of have a family right away. This is overstepping their power. Rhode Island: Compulsory School Age Increase to 18 Passes Legislature July 1, 2011 This bill undermines the freedom of all parents. Dear Rhode Island HSLDA Members and Friends: Despite your calls, the Rhode Island senate joined the house and passed HB 5061. Barring the unlikely event of a gubernatorial veto, families in Rhode Island will be subject to compulsory education for an additional 2 years—until the student’s 18 th birthday--when the new school year begins. It is difficult to tell how each family will be impacted by this expansion of government power into their homes. In any event, it underlines the importance of every homeschool family working to protect liberty. There are no non-combatants in the battle to protect liberty! If you know any families who were sitting on the sidelines while HB 5061 was moving through the legislature, urge them to roll up their sleeves, join HSLDA and Rhode Island Guild of Home Teachers, and be ready to work next time their freedom is threatened. There is strength in unity—and numbers! Sincerely, Scott Woodruff HSLDA Senior Counsel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 As a member of the HSLDA, I made my phone calls in to my state legislators and representatives to stop this from passing, but it went through despite our efforts. I'm very upset about this. I can't guarantee that any of my children will want to pursue college instead of have a family right away. This is overstepping their power. Under the law, what happens if one graduates early. For instance, I graduated a yr early at the age of 17 and that was from public school. It had nothing to do with homeschooling. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Subbing to see if anyone has more information. (jewellsmommy, I graduated early from ps, too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Under the law, what happens if one graduates early. For instance, I graduated a yr early at the age of 17 and that was from public school. It had nothing to do with homeschooling. Just curious. Even if not "a year early" people do graduate before age of 18. I'm suspecting that if you complete hs course-work, you can graduate and be done. In my home state, when I was a kid, the "drop-out age" was 16. You couldn't drop out before then without facing truancy charges, and your parents couldn't assist you in avoiding school. Not that I've read it, but I doubt this law is "aimed" at homeschoolers, but to force teens to stay in school to graduation or age 18. Just a hunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hmmm the actual text of the law does not seem to preclude graduating prior to 18; just makes dropping out without a graduation plan a problem. It is terribly worded, as the first and second halves contradict one another, and is still an offensive law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Under the law, what happens if one graduates early. For instance, I graduated a yr early at the age of 17 and that was from public school. It had nothing to do with homeschooling. Just curious. Of course. The bill has a great number of exemptions. It has exemptions for people who are educating at home. It has exemptions for people in dire economic straits. It has exemptions for those who have graduated, etc., etc., etc. This press release is just more evidence of the fear-mongering less-than-half truths spread by the HSLDA to stir up anger (and get donations flowing in). But it ain't the true picture, not that we should expect less from the HSLDA. Don't fall for this stuff ;) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Of course. The bill has a great number of exemptions. It has exemptions for people who are educating at home. It has exemptions for people in dire economic straits. It has exemptions for those who have graduated, etc., etc., etc. This press release is just more evidence of the fear-mongering less-than-half truths spread by the HSLDA to stir up anger (and get donations flowing in). But it ain't the true picture, not that we should expect less from the HSLDA. Don't fall for this stuff ;) Bill Well, fortunately I am still under the "trial membership" that we signed up for. If that is the HSLDA's tactics, I think I'll just let the membership run out. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Even if not "a year early" people do graduate before age of 18. I'm suspecting that if you complete hs course-work, you can graduate and be done. In my home state, when I was a kid, the "drop-out age" was 16. You couldn't drop out before then without facing truancy charges, and your parents couldn't assist you in avoiding school. Not that I've read it, but I doubt this law is "aimed" at homeschoolers, but to force teens to stay in school to graduation or age 18. Just a hunch. Ok, I was thinking this was coming from the angle of stopping homeschooling parents from graduating 16 and 17 yr olds. I only mentioned my experience because I was ps and with the age cut offs you have to either skip a grade early on or graduate a yr early (which they make hard because you can't take 2 yrs of English at once but you can take 1.5 and you have to take 4 total) to get out by 17. It seemed to me that VA made it difficult to graduate at 17 even though we don't have a similar law. You think they would offer better options and make it easier instead of harder. Just my side rant. Sorry, its late. :tongue_smilie: In retrospect my first post seemed a little pretentious...unintentional I assure you.:blush: Edited July 2, 2011 by jewellsmommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Honestly, I am not a fan of HSLDA. They lean toward the inflammatory too often for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well, fortunately I am still under the "trial membership" that we signed up for. If that is the HSLDA's tactics, I think I'll just let the membership run out. ;) They are fear-mongers and truth-benders. And many (most?) of their activities go towards causes that have nothing to do with home education and everything to do with promoting their extreme political views. This is their standard MO (modus operandi for you Latin fans :D) I wouldn't give them a nickel. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I have to agree with Bill. We avoid the HSLDA and their "alerts". There are are lot of reasons why we don't support them including their political affiliations and lack of actual legal defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Same here. I've also noticed that a good number of the situations they brag about seem to be situations that a parent couldhave easily solved if they'd only read their state's/province's homeschooling legislation. I don't think they just promote fear, I think they promote ignorance as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 This has nothing to do with homeschoolers; in fact, it has exemptions for home educators. If a student graduates before they are 18, they're fine. Think of it this way: the way things are right now, education is compulsory until 16. But, if somebody graduates from high school at 14, which sometimes happens, they aren't forced to keep going for two more years. I wouldn't touch the HSLDA with a ten-foot pole, personally. They seem to mainly be pushing a political agenda that I don't agree with, rather than providing help for homeschoolers. Plus, the vast majority of legal challenges to homeschooling involve divorce/custody situations, and the HSLDA won't get involved with that, so they really aren't providing their members with legal help when it's going to be most needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well thank you all for opening my eyes on the HSLDA. I had NO idea that they were that bad. My DH and I thought they were a good option for legal defense in the case of needing it. We'll pass for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 They are fear-mongers and truth-benders. And many (most?) of their activities go towards causes that have nothing to do with home education and everything to do with promoting their extreme political views. This is their standard MO (modus operandi for you Latin fans :D) I wouldn't give them a nickel. Bill This is why I looked them over when we first pulled our kids, and walked away. I figured if they were worth their salt, their website wouldn't read like an ambulance chaser's, or make it sound like you were one of 'them' for not joining. I dislike pressure tactics. Jen http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 HSLD made a huge deal when this passed in Michigan. I didn't have any problem with it, legally you are responsible for your child until 18, now that child legally has to attend school until 18 or until graduation unless a parent signs a waiver. I'm just not sure these laws will accomplish what they are intended to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think this website doesn't get updated anymore, but the info on H$LDA is still good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 They passed this a couple years ago in NH and it wasn't as bad as the homeschool community feared. If your child graduates early from homeschool, he/she is done. I'm unsure what you have to submit to the state, but they can't force a teenager to go to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 One good thing about HSLDA, at least they are consistent. They never fail to take the low road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) :iagree: with Bill, and I'm pretty conservative, TBH. ;) Edited July 2, 2011 by heatherwith3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well thank you all for opening my eyes on the HSLDA. I had NO idea that they were that bad. Not everyone believes they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I am very thankful to have HSLDA. They are conservative in their political viewpoint. If one is far to the other side of the spectrum, he may consider HSLDA radical, but the I think they are generally in line with the majority of homeschoolers who lean conservative. I and a lot of people I know would consider the statements made on this thread about HSLDA to be a mischaracterization. I am not trying to offend anyone or cause an argument, but I think it is helpful to consider a different opinion. Even if I didn't agree with HSLDA politically, I would still consider joining because of the legal protection they provide. Recently I had an issue with our school, and since I had a lawyer, the problem was resolved the same day. A friend of mine was unsuccessful in trying to get a problem addressed in her school district until she got a lawyer. As soon as the lawyer confronted the authorities, the situation was immediately resolved. Though it may be true that people may be able to get most issues resolved themselves, it can take a lot longer and involve a lot more stress, anxiety, and frustration trying to do it yourself than having a legal team who will do the talking and fighting for you free of charge. I think the legal protection from HSLDA is a great asset and provides much peace of mind. I would especially recommend joining HSLDA to people who live in a school district or state which is unfriendly or antagonistic toward homeschooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Arghh! Clauses or not... how about NO more extraneous laws!!!! Do we really need anymore for every single area of our lives? There are so many these days that it's possible to be breaking laws without even knowing it. It's like sticking your hand it hot water, if it's done slowly, you won't feel the burn. Agree or disagree with HSLDA, I am glad to know someone is looking over my shoulder to see what's comming up behind me!!!!! Edited July 2, 2011 by MyLittleBears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 We are members of HSLDA and happy to be so. We are in a state very friendly to HSing but know people who are not. I am glad to have the piece of mind that someone is watching the legislation. Maybe for that law it seems like a little overkill, but I don't like how many new laws are being passed to regulate every aspect of our lives. At least HSLDA is trying to stop some of the extraneous laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) I am very thankful to have HSLDA. They are conservative in their political viewpoint. If one is far to the other side of the spectrum, he may consider HSLDA radical, but the I think they are generally in line with the majority of homeschoolers who lean conservative. I and a lot of people I know would consider the statements made on this thread about HSLDA to be a mischaracterization. I am not trying to offend anyone or cause an argument, but I think it is helpful to consider a different opinion. It seems that you are trying to imply one has to come from the extreme left to find HSDLA to be an organization that uses scare-tactics and misrepresents the truth. I can assure you that is not the case. People from across the political spectrum, conservatives included, find their methods and tactics reprehensible. Bill Edited July 2, 2011 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Ok, I was thinking this was coming from the angle of stopping homeschooling parents from graduating 16 and 17 yr olds. I only mentioned my experience because I was ps and with the age cut offs you have to either skip a grade early on or graduate a yr early [/quote__________________ Really?? That is weird. I have a late summer bday as do both of my girls. So I graduated in May at age 17 and turned 18 a few months later. Both of my girls will graduate in May at age 17 and turn 18 later in the summer too. I never heard of cut off dates before May or June. Not to say some states don't have them. I just didn't know that! That seems kind of extreme. The parents should have the option of going ahead and putting their young 5 yr olds in K or young 6 yr olds in 1st if they want. It would have been horrible to hold me back or my dds from the level of work we are/were capable of just because they were/I was born in late summer and not a couple of months earlier! And I believe that my state has mandatory school through age 18 too, but it is possible to graduate before that (obviously.) But don't quote me on that. I am more familiar with the younger years of school than the olders, so it might not be 18. But off of memory I think it is. Edited July 2, 2011 by 2_girls_mommy Yes, I know my English is a mess!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Even if I didn't agree with HSLDA politically, I would still consider joining because of the legal protection they provide. Recently I had an issue with our school, and since I had a lawyer, the problem was resolved the same day. A friend of mine was unsuccessful in trying to get a problem addressed in her school district until she got a lawyer. As soon as the lawyer confronted the authorities, the situation was immediately resolved. Though it may be true that people may be able to get most issues resolved themselves, it can take a lot longer and involve a lot more stress, anxiety, and frustration trying to do it yourself than having a legal team who will do the talking and fighting for you free of charge. I think the legal protection from HSLDA is a great asset and provides much peace of mind. I would especially recommend joining HSLDA to people who live in a school district or state which is unfriendly or antagonistic toward homeschooling. But see, jut because you are a member of HSLDA does not mean you would be represented if you needed them. You have to fit whatever parameter they decide. It is not like pre-paid legal, it is the illusion of pre-paid legal. I think that in any state, if you know your rules and regulations, you can do just fine resolving whatever issue might come up by yourself. Most superintendents don't know the laws. It is our job to know them, and explain why we are being compliant, and the school district is not. I can only see some real issues having to do with divorce, and that is a whole separate can of worms. If you are not the type of home educator that HSLDA thinks is ok, you will get zero help no matter how many years you have paid dues. They also tend to only work towards what they think is "homeschooling", not necessary the freedom to choose how you want to HS. If you totally are into every thing they think, then I can see where you wouldn't have a problem with it. But you can still be a conservative, religious homeschooler and find them obnoxious and damaging. I think the biggest problem is that they insert themselves into all sorts of things representing themselves as speaking for all homeschoolers. They don't. They never will. I could care less why someone homeschools, their style, philosophy, reasoning, curriculum choices, religion, skin color, ice cream preference... and I would support a person on the opposite side of the spectrum from me, even if I totally thought they were wrong or whacked. I can't judge another person unless I want to suffer the same. HS:DA does not tolerate or understand that. They are a private organization. They can do whatever they want with their $$, I just hate when people think they are something else than what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Agree or disagree with HSLDA, I am glad to know someone is looking over my shoulder!!!!! Just out of curiosity, why would you want an organization you don't agree with to be looking over your shoulder? And if that's fine, then what's wrong with the government making sure under 18 year olds either finish school or attend it? I thought the point of HSLDA was to look at the government, not at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 We are members of HSLDA and happy to be so. We are in a state very friendly to HSing but know people who are not. I am glad to have the piece of mind that someone is watching the legislation. Maybe for that law it seems like a little overkill, but I don't like how many new laws are being passed to regulate every aspect of our lives. At least HSLDA is trying to stop some of the extraneous laws. :iagree: In this particular case, the law exempts homeschoolers, but I'm guessing that HSLDA got involved because of the potential for other laws (maybe even in different states) to be formed to further limit our freedoms. If there is no protest made when the compulsory attendance age is extended, the next law may go even farther or may eliminate the exceptions to the rule. Does anyone know if the exceptions were put into play because there was a point raised by HSLDA or another homeschooling organization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Just out of curiosity, why would you want an organization you don't agree with to be looking over your shoulder? And if that's fine, then what's wrong with the government making sure under 18 year olds either finish school or attend it? I thought the point of HSLDA was to look at the government, not at me. As a matter of fact, I do agree with them. They keep me posted on what's going on with education laws in this country. That's what I meant by looking over my shoulder. Seeing what's coming up behind me. I think my wording was a bit funny. Sorry. I was not implying they were checking up on me. The government seems to think they always know better than the parents thereby making more and more laws with more and more "restrictions". It's not this particular law per se, it's idea that the government has the right to tell us how long to educate our children, as if we're to stupid to figure it out. kwim?:tongue_smilie: Edited July 3, 2011 by MyLittleBears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Does anyone know if the exceptions were put into play because there was a point raised by HSLDA or another homeschooling organization? Here in Michigan you can put your child into K at 4, so they would have to change the district policies if there weren't exceptions. I can't see how they would get away without exceptions even if that weren't the case. These laws were originally intended to enpower parents to keep kids in school until they were 18 and became a legal adult. The arguement was that kids could quit school at 18. The parent had nothing behind them to force their child to go to school, now, in theory it can be enforced. I just don't think they are going to accomplish what they intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 We are members of HSLDA and happy to be so. We are in a state very friendly to HSing but know people who are not. I am glad to have the piece of mind that someone is watching the legislation. Maybe for that law it seems like a little overkill, but I don't like how many new laws are being passed to regulate every aspect of our lives. At least HSLDA is trying to stop some of the extraneous laws. See, in my mind that person should be me. What I see happening with the HSLDA is that homeschoolers turn to them for information and news and stop looking for the info or news from other sources. The HSLDA sends out some alarmist email and it gets posted to my email lists or forums with fearful comments asking what the world is coming to and it takes me all of 5 minutes with Google to find a more reasonable perspective on the HSLDA spin. People back off a bit. Then the next email comes out and the hysteria starts again. We realize we should take full responsibility for our children's homeschooling but when it comes to taking responsibility for our information for homeschooling too often it's handed over to the HSLDA without thought or question. It's maddening. I have no problem with a legal defense fund. I have a lot of problems with the way the HSLDA markets itself (and that's what those releases and emails are - marketing) to homeschoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 In my state, you can go to the state home page, legislation section, and sign up for email alerts, and click off options to receive alerts (email or text messages) about a variety of topics. For example, I receive alerts on legislative actions pending or signed into law or in progress, and I was able to choose the general categories about which I wanted to be notified-- including education. This way, I don't need to rely upon some outside organization with whose politics I might not agree to pre-digest that information for me; I can be aware of it as soon as anything is introduced, killed, or voted upon. Jen http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I think this website doesn't get updated anymore, but the info on H$LDA is still good. One good thing about HSLDA, at least they are consistent. They never fail to take the low road. :iagree: with Bill, and I'm pretty conservative, TBH. ;) I will take this into consideration. I and my DH have much research to do. I'm looking at the site linked now. Not everyone believes they are. I am very thankful to have HSLDA. They are conservative in their political viewpoint. If one is far to the other side of the spectrum, he may consider HSLDA radical, but the I think they are generally in line with the majority of homeschoolers who lean conservative. I and a lot of people I know would consider the statements made on this thread about HSLDA to be a mischaracterization. I am not trying to offend anyone or cause an argument, but I think it is helpful to consider a different opinion. Even if I didn't agree with HSLDA politically, I would still consider joining because of the legal protection they provide. Recently I had an issue with our school, and since I had a lawyer, the problem was resolved the same day. A friend of mine was unsuccessful in trying to get a problem addressed in her school district until she got a lawyer. As soon as the lawyer confronted the authorities, the situation was immediately resolved. Though it may be true that people may be able to get most issues resolved themselves, it can take a lot longer and involve a lot more stress, anxiety, and frustration trying to do it yourself than having a legal team who will do the talking and fighting for you free of charge. I think the legal protection from HSLDA is a great asset and provides much peace of mind. I would especially recommend joining HSLDA to people who live in a school district or state which is unfriendly or antagonistic toward homeschooling. Arghh! Clauses or not... how about NO more extraneous laws!!!! Do we really need anymore for every single area of our lives? There are so many these days that it's possible to be breaking laws without even knowing it. It's like sticking your hand it hot water, if it's done slowly, you won't feel the burn. Agree or disagree with HSLDA, I am glad to know someone is looking over my shoulder to see what's comming up behind me!!!!! We are members of HSLDA and happy to be so. We are in a state very friendly to HSing but know people who are not. I am glad to have the piece of mind that someone is watching the legislation. Maybe for that law it seems like a little overkill, but I don't like how many new laws are being passed to regulate every aspect of our lives. At least HSLDA is trying to stop some of the extraneous laws. To me, $100 per year for membership is a small price to pay for *potential* help. I'm fine with that. We happen to live in a high law state concerning HS'ing. I'd like to be covered anyway I can be. I'll be looking into them from all angles though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 See, in my mind that person should be me. I personally don't have the time to run two businesses, a home, teach my kids and monitor everything the government is doing. I take everything I read with a grain of salt. You have to. Everything is written or spoken from one point of view. I use HSLDA and our state Christian Homeschool Association to keep me informed on legal matters affecting me. If I am alerted to somethimg, I can search it out and read up on it. I am blessed to live in a state with no Homeschool requirements. No reporting, testing, and no letter of intent since my kids have never been in school. If my extremely nosey neighbor reports me for having truant children (she turned us in for having a fence panel on the side of the house) I am happy to know that I can call someone to take care of it. And if I don't need it, I am happy to support an organization that will use that money to help a family having trouble in a less than friendly state or school district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 If my extremely nosey neighbor reports me for having truant children (she turned us in for having a fence panel on the side of the house) I am happy to know that I can call someone to take care of it. And if I don't need it, I am happy to support an organization that will use that money to help a family having trouble in a less than friendly state or school district. Or they may use your money to push whatever agenda they have at the moment and may turn you down for help because you don't fit their criteria. That just seems shady to me. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 There is an issue with a law like the one that initiated this thread that has not been brought up. When you pass a law raising the compulsory education age, and you exclude homeschoolers, then you open the door for things like mandatory homeschooling registration. This has been a huge issue in IL where I live, because homeschoolers are not separately defined in the law--we are considered private schools. So as soon as homeschoolers are excluded from a law, your children are put into a position to prove that they are homeschoolers. (The issue has come up here in the form of daytime truancy laws.) You don't want your 17yo to go apply for a job and have someone report him to the state for truancy, even if you are in compliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I do have a problem with requiring students to stay in school until 18. As a spouse of a public school teacher, there are students in schools that you don't want to be there until then, even if your own children do not go to public school. Just this past year he had two students arrested for murder. He knows he has drug dealers in his classes. There are many teen boys that have stayed in school because of the girls they can get while there. One student was 17 and had 2.5 credits. What on earth was he still doing there? If states are going to require staying in school until 18, they should radically change the direction education is going. Everyone in our state is required to do a usual college prep track (4 Eng, 4 Math, 4 Science, 3-4 SS, 2 FL). You can't tell me that all kids can pass some of those classes. They need to reinstate vocational training. It does exist, but it's nothing like it used to be. I've read articles recently about how we have too few skilled laborers in this country. I blame the high schools for moving to "everyone has to go to college". I think it's just a scam of the colleges to make more money and saddle young adults with debt. Sorry for the rant. All this talk about education gets me going because I see what my dh has to endure. There's no common sense left in the system, and the kids care less and less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Here in Michigan you can put your child into K at 4, so they would have to change the district policies if there weren't exceptions. I can't see how they would get away without exceptions even if that weren't the case. These laws were originally intended to enpower parents to keep kids in school until they were 18 and became a legal adult. The arguement was that kids could quit school at 18. The parent had nothing behind them to force their child to go to school, now, in theory it can be enforced. I just don't think they are going to accomplish what they intended. Yes, it's very strange to me that a group that is so into parental rights--and who I'm assuming thinks that parents should have the legal right to make all sorts of decisions for their children until they reach 18--are okay with laws that allow a 16 year old to drop out and their parents not have any recourse. I don't think the law is particularly useful. But, given the realities of our economy--in the past, it may have been possible to drop out of high school at 16 and find a decent job, since that's the age in most states where you can start working full-time, but today that just isn't reality--I can totally understand why they'd want to change it. Are people opposed to having a minimum age at which students can drop out with no alternative plans? If so, should 10 year olds be allowed to drop out? If not, why is 18 a problem but 16 isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janainaz Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 :iagree::iagree::iagree: Of course. The bill has a great number of exemptions. It has exemptions for people who are educating at home. It has exemptions for people in dire economic straits. It has exemptions for those who have graduated, etc., etc., etc. This press release is just more evidence of the fear-mongering less-than-half truths spread by the HSLDA to stir up anger (and get donations flowing in). But it ain't the true picture, not that we should expect less from the HSLDA. Don't fall for this stuff ;) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodhaven Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The government seems to think they always know better than the parents thereby making more and more laws with more and more "restrictions". It's not this particular law per se, it's idea that the government has the right to tell us how long to educate our children, as if we're to stupid to figure it out. kwim?:tongue_smilie: I can't get the quote box on the above, but I agree with this!! I HATE the government constantly taking more and more rights away from parents!! I am SICK, SICK, SICK of it! Oh, and I am one person who does like what HSLDA is doing. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janainaz Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The government seems to think they always know better than the parents thereby making more and more laws with more and more "restrictions". It's not this particular law per se, it's idea that the government has the right to tell us how long to educate our children, as if we're to stupid to figure it out. kwim?:tongue_smilie: I can't get the quote box on the above, but I agree with this!! I HATE the government constantly taking more and more rights away from parents!! I am SICK, SICK, SICK of it! Oh, and I am one person who does like what HSLDA is doing. :001_smile: I don't like the idea of the governement infringing upon my rights, but the HSLDA has an agenda - and anyone with an agenda can never be trusted. In the same way that I refuse to give my money to any church institution, I'm also not handing it over to HSLDA. Don't believe everything you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2Many4 Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Yes, it's very strange to me that a group that is so into parental rights--and who I'm assuming thinks that parents should have the legal right to make all sorts of decisions for their children until they reach 18--are okay with laws that allow a 16 year old to drop out and their parents not have any recourse. I don't think the law is particularly useful. But, given the realities of our economy--in the past, it may have been possible to drop out of high school at 16 and find a decent job, since that's the age in most states where you can start working full-time, but today that just isn't reality--I can totally understand why they'd want to change it. Are people opposed to having a minimum age at which students can drop out with no alternative plans? If so, should 10 year olds be allowed to drop out? If not, why is 18 a problem but 16 isn't? When I was 16 I dropped out of high school. My father had to sign for me to do so. My family needed me to work because we were struggling for money. I went to work right away at a jewelry factory. What I did at the time was right for our family. I needed to help them and later attained my GED (walked right in on testing day and took the test), then went to college for medical. Never finished all of my degree yet due to family stresses and choices, but may in the future. My point is I didn't just walk in to school and say adios! My parent had to sign papers saying I could. Had I NOT gone to work at 16, my parents and I would very much have been living on the streets. My father was disabled and my mother and I worked. Sometimes a 16 year old just must be done with schooling at that time. I'm fortunate that my children will not need to face that, but some may somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imhim Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Everybody, EVERYBODY, has an agenda. The Bible teaches giving. Especially to a church institution to help others and support the ministers, and to people for many reasons. We (mostly) agree with the HSDLA agenda. And we also want the peace of mind. Yes, this law puts even more control in the government's hand. HSLDA openly fights this. Yes, it is their agenda. Thank God! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leanna76 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I was surprised when I read all the negative posts on this thread regarding the HSLDA. I'm not familiar with them...so I went over to their website to find out who they are. Now, I having finished reading through HSLDA's..."Who We Are" and "Frequently Asked Questions".. I see what all the negativity is really about. It seems that HSLDA is a fundamental conservative group that actually believes the Bible is the Word of God and is authoritative over all of life. I soppose that puts them under attack among some on this forum along with groups like "Answers in Genesis." I would definitely not take all the criticisim as correct information. I suspect the critics have their agenda as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Okay,so... the media has an adgenda- they can not be trusted universities- have an agenda- they can not be trusted the government (who run the public schools)- has an agenda - they can't be trusted... Greenpeace The Siera club The Boy Scouts The local PTA and on and on. Who does not have an agenda? And what is HSLDA's? To help and protect homeschoolers? To alert me when something important is happening pertaining to political laws? This seems to me like an honorable and open one. Thank you, but with all I have to do, I will gladly pay someone for this kind of help! Edited July 3, 2011 by MyLittleBears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janainaz Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Everybody, EVERYBODY, has an agenda. The Bible teaches giving. Especially to a church institution to help others and support the ministers, and to people for many reasons. We (mostly) agree with the HSDLA agenda. And we also want the peace of mind. Yes, this law puts even more control in the government's hand. HSLDA openly fights this. Yes, it is their agenda. Thank God! Ok, agree to disagree. Giving is good, but you better know exactly what and who you are giving to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I do not have an issue with an organization having an agenda. My concern with HSDLA is that its agenda is not entirely clear. I would love to have the peace of mind knowing that an experienced lawyer is just a phone call away, and I would be willing to pay for those services. But I am LDS, and I have heard that HSDLA may take my money but later choose not to defend me because of my religion. Honestly, I don't know if that is true or not. But there is enough of those sorts of accusations out there, that if it were not true, I would expect HSLDA to object. There are similar accusations of HSLDA refusing to defend unschoolers. On both points, HSLDA has not clarified their position. Honestly, I don't have a problem with an organization only defending fundamentalist conservative Christians, or only classical or traditional homeschoolers--if they say that this is their mission. But they don't say it, one way or another, and that makes me wary. I am not passionately against HSLDA like others in this thread--just cynical enough to stand back and watch HSLDA for a good long while before I give them my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I don't know about unschoolers and other religions. I do know that they will not defend you if you use an online public school program like K-12. They are pretty upfront about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janainaz Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I've been homeschooling my kids for 11 years. I don't belong to any organizations, I don't receive scary, fear-mongoring updates, and I just carry on with my life. I'll know when and if I need to fight for my rights to homeschool my kids. In the meantime, I keep clear records, and daily evidence that school takes place responsibly in my home - and I keep my money as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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