orangearrow Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 There is no way she is 16. I think this is all a publicity stunt to launch her "career". :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 hope it lasts....... but i have to question the mom who signed the consent form to allow it.... odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't care if they look their age or not, and I'm not terribly bothered by a 35 year age difference. I mean, it's odd, but not disturbing. But I'm shocked that the mom signed the consent form for a 16yo!, a child, to marry a 51yo. If it was true love, they could have waited until she was 18yo to marry. I'm guessing that her opinion will change an awful lot in the next 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I saw a news thing about this a few days ago and figured it was a "fake-o" considering I didn't think legally it would be permitted. I knew her parents could sign off, but I just couldn't imagine a parent in their right mind would. Who knows.. I agree neither of them look their age. The photos posted on other sites could be from any time frame really.. Who knows, maybe she is maybe she isn't. Maybe they are just trying to see how much trouble they could stir up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Weird picture. He looks like he's hugging his mom and she looks like she's hugging a stripper pole. I'm not worried about them. I doubt it will last but I don't think either one will be horribly harmed by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 In out current culture a 16-year old marrying a 50+ year old man is weird/gross/disturbing/etc. But several generations ago it was routinely done - even arranged by the young lady's father with very little recourse for young lady if she didn't like the idea. These two look happy. Personally, while I don't think it is an ideal situation for the average 16-year old, I think it is better that they are married than having an affair. I think it is better for any children that come along that the parents are married. Truly this isn't the first May/December wedding the world has ever seen. :iagree: I can't get too worked up about this. There are much worse mistakes and choices a 16 year old, or 51 year old for that matter, could make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Here is her gallery on her site: http://www.courtneystodden.com/Gallery.html She doesn't look like any 16 yr old I know. BUT, if she is, and her parents allow pictures like these to be taken of her, then it explains their lack of judgement in letting her marry at 16. Well. I went to the site and heard her singing. Lots of speaking in the song and the little bit of actual singing is auto tuned. Maybe marriage was the best option for her? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhondaM. Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Audrey...I tried to send you a private message, but could not. Could you email me? I have something I want to ask you about, but it has nothing to do with this topic. Thanks. RhondaM. chiliwoman at aol dot com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Again, as I said- I certainly don't condone the fact that she is an underage girl. I'm aware their age difference is double mine and my husband's. The reason I felt compelled to post is that people were mentioning other relationships with a lesser age difference and the general tone of the thread was still "Ewwww gross!" I was just wanting to bring a human face to the debate and say that not all relationships with a 10/20/30 year age difference are grossly inappropriate. :) The age gap is just conversational. The fact that she is only 16 is the real issue - my gosh, she might not even be done growing taller yet! At 22 you were an adult in just about every way, and legally capable of making an educated decision about what was right for your future without your mom's permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 How about the Durants? Didn't Ariel rollerskate to her wedding at age 14? And they're considerably more relevant to homeschooling than these actor types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 51 and 16? Gross. If I didn't know their ages, the picture of them looks ok. She looks more like late 20s/early 30s and he looks like 30s. But it is disturbing that a 51-yo man is interested in an adolescent. Even waiting two years would have felt more...decent (and not just because of legal age). *wry* At 18, I ran away from a fellow in the first year of graduate school who showed interest in me because all I could think of was "Why is he interested in ME?" and felt he was too old! (and yet, 12 years later, I married a man 5 years my junior) As you get older age differences don't matter as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 How long did they date...was she 15 then? The fact that a man of 50-51 took interest in a possibly 15 and now 16 yr old girl is in my book a pedophile. Does not change this just because they are married now. And based on her photos and videos, I am sure some pre marital acts were taking place (could be wrong, but...) Where is the dad in all this? Personally I think CPS should be looking into this if she really is 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magdalene Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 First- I don't think any parent should sign off on their 16-year-old daughter getting married. And I think it's disturbing that a 51-year-old man would be interested in someone who's not fully grown yet. That being said- when I was 22, I married a man who was 40. That's an 18 year age difference. It was the first marriage for both of us. We are still married. We were both adults. My mother is only 5 years older than him, and my dad is 10 years older than him. I'm really thankful that they were willing to be supportive and give him a chance despite the age difference....they could see that we had similar interests, values, and priorities. I hope if one of my children came to me with an interest in someone markedly older/younger, we would prayerfully and carefully evaluate the situation based on lots of factors, not just age. Just some food for thought- it's not always a dirty old man/trampy young girl scenario. :) :iagree: As someone who is married to a man 25 years my senior, I'd like to thank you for sharing your story. It sounds similar to mine (only I was 21 when I met DH and 25 when we married, and it was a second marriage for both of us). The stereotypes get tiresome after a while. I find it odd that her parents consented to it. Why not tell her to wait two years? Why would they let their daughter date a 51 year old man? Then again, it really wasn't that long ago when it was common for girls to marry at 15 and 16. I know my great grandmother was 16 when she married my great grandfather, who was 19 years her senior, a widower, and had several children. They had a long and happy marriage (and many, many children of their own). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 How long did they date...was she 15 then?The fact that a man of 50-51 took interest in a possibly 15 and now 16 yr old girl is in my book a pedophile. Does not change this just because they are married now. And based on her photos and videos, I am sure some pre marital acts were taking place (could be wrong, but...) Where is the dad in all this? Personally I think CPS should be looking into this if she really is 16. Well, he had to marry her with her parents' permission or it would have been a felony (punishable for several years in jail, plus the rest of his life as an offender) for him to have intercourse with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 At the end of April, my 44 yo xh married a 20 year old he started dating in January. She is a student at the college where he teaches. How's that for role-modeling for my teenage boys? Our oldest is only a few years younger than his new stepmother. I don't know what's worse - the fact that xh can't have a relationship with an adult, or the fact that she married him. Ew. My best friend from childhood married a man who is 24 years older than she is. Her step-children (twins) are six years younger than she is. They are very happily married, have been for a decade, and truly are a compatible couple. I thought it was weird and kinda gross when she did it, but I have come to see that it isn't always. I don't know what the twins' mother thought of the situation, but my friend's step-daughter and my friend get along famously, and my friend is a proud grandmother to her step-daughter's son and daughter. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I wouldn't want my 16 yo (if I had one) to marry someone 35 years older then them. That said, this isn't abuse. What if they go one to raise a familiy together, live happily, and remain married for 20 years? I don't think that's likely but it is possible. Maybe I haven't heard the whole story? Has she been violated? Did her father arrange the marriage against her will? I don't know these people so I have no idea about the maturity of either of them. I thought you were in favor of engaging with the popular culture? They're both involved in the entertainment industry so I expect they are quite steeped in the culture of show biz. They have a shared interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Lilac Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Here's an article with her mom explaining the background.... http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/06/23/exclusive-16-year-old-courtney-stoddens-mom-approved-marriage-to-much-older/?test=faces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Weird picture. He looks like he's hugging his mom and she looks like she's hugging a stripper pole. I'm not worried about them. I doubt it will last but I don't think either one will be horribly harmed by it. :lol: I thought the picture was odd too. It looked like he was clinging and trying desparately to touch as much of her as possible and she's doing her best to keep as much of her body free of him as possible. For a couple in love they look very awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 It's not the age difference. It's that she is still a child in the process of developing into a mature woman. If she were 20 and he were 55, I'd raise an eyebrow, but I wouldn't think it's gross the way 16 and 51 is gross. Children should not be married to 51-year-old men. 51-year-old men should not be interested in marrying children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Here's an article with her mom explaining the background.... http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/06/23/exclusive-16-year-old-courtney-stoddens-mom-approved-marriage-to-much-older/?test=faces Well, at least she looks more her age in the video in this article. But her acting (overly sexy/pouty) and singing are horrid. I wouldn't have supported this marriage no matter how nice the guy is. But then again, my daughter wouldn't be allowed to dress and act like this either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Here's an article with her mom explaining the background.... http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/06/23/exclusive-16-year-old-courtney-stoddens-mom-approved-marriage-to-much-older/?test=faces "Courtney, an aspiring actress, model and pop singer, met her husband when he began managing her career.*Her parents welcomed Hutchinson, who is four years older than his new father-in-law, into their lives when he started dating their daughter." He was her manager? :001_huh: That makes this feel even ickier. "Courtney and Doug did not want to wait the two years until she turned 18 to marry. (Once you are 18, you do not need parental consent.)" I met my husband when I was 17 (and a freshman in college living two states away from my parents). He liked me, but he didn't want to date me until I was at least 18 (he was 21 when we met). We got married when I was 19. "Most 16-year olds are not focused on finding a husband.* According to mother Krista, her daughter was no different.*She said Courtney, home schooled since the 6th grade, was not looking for love." Fantastic. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 They aren't breaking the law. Her parents seem to think it's acceptable and it is a lawful union which means the law of the land agrees. Some people value different things. I'm guessing her parents would happily accept a career in porn if that's what would make their daughter happy. They don't seem to have a problem with her using sex to sell herself. :shrug: Today, isn't that a "good thing?" They're supporting their daughter and her self-esteem, they're empowering her to use her body how SHE thinks is right to get fame and fortune. It sounds like a lot of parents. They accept their children finding their own path, and they believe that nothing is really wrong so all avenues are open. They support their children in going that route. At least they are not frigid fundamentalists that demand their children follow the rigid rules they believe in, since no one is ever really right. Maybe they're just wrong because they're mixing moral standings. The ideas of Christianity and Christian marraige don't seem to sit well next to expressed sexuality and a career based on soliciting lust. A sixteen-year-old who embraces her sexual powers and uses her feminity to succeed sounds like a very modern thing, nearly feminist really. The man that wants to support her, as long as he doesn't make her wear clothes, would be just as much a forward/modern thinker. He is accepting that she sells herself for a living, using her looks to provoke a particular reaction. Is it him "making an honest woman" of her what's wrong then? Is it that those two ideas are so different? As a Christian, I would have been very happy if they could have left that little tidbit out. I think that throwing out that he's a Christian after pointing out that he's been her manager and helping her to prostitute herself, because that's what she looks like in all those pictures, raises my hackles a bit. As a Christian I find the situation repugnant. Not because of the marraige, but because of the path they're leading her down in her career. The marraige seems like the absolute least of the problems. As an American ;), after the 'Slut Walk' I see now that we are supposed to accept that women who want to dress like sluts or empower themselves with slutiness. They are just modern women making their female way in the world! So, she's a modern feminist. He's supporting her. He should be the good guy, because he's her manager, he's helping her help herself. Now he also wants to be her husband and I guess that bothers people, but... eh. If we have to accept 'Slut Walk' then we have to accept younger pop stars slutting it up for money, then imo, a younger pop wannabe that actually marries someone at least seems like they're trying to have some sort of moral restraint. Although, in all reality, it's probably just a paycheck (getting Mom and Dad away from it) sort of thing. Iow, it seems like the modern outcry is really that they're giving in to the idea of marraige (chaining a powerful female down to some shmuck). I mean, the girl has been tramped out, but the problem is she is so young and married?!? :lol: Promiscuity is fine, sluttiness is fine, but MARRAIGE?!?! Oh dear, well now her future is ruined. Oh and sure we can blame it on the age difference, but seriously? That "little girl" hasn't looked like or lived like a little girl for a very long time. Would it have been okay if her husband was 16, 17, 18? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I think men who date underage women are sick predators. That is the bottom line as far as *this story* goes. ITA, especially in this case. If we're talking about a 19 and 17 year old, that would be different (IMO) but this is just sick all around and her parents should be imprisoned or something. I think it's just sick how parents allow their young girls to act so provocatively. As if we don't have enough problems with perverted men looking at normal little girls, now parents are just helping them along. :rant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 They aren't breaking the law. Her parents seem to think it's acceptable and it is a lawful union which means the law of the land agrees. Some people value different things. I'm guessing her parents would happily accept a career in porn if that's what would make their daughter happy. They don't seem to have a problem with her using sex to sell herself. :shrug: Today, isn't that a "good thing?" They're supporting their daughter and her self-esteem, they're empowering her to use her body how SHE thinks is right to get fame and fortune. It sounds like a lot of parents. They accept their children finding their own path, and they believe that nothing is really wrong so all avenues are open. They support their children in going that route. At least they are not frigid fundamentalists that demand their children follow the rigid rules they believe in, since no one is ever really right. Maybe they're just wrong because they're mixing moral standings. The ideas of Christianity and Christian marraige don't seem to sit well next to expressed sexuality and a career based on soliciting lust. A sixteen-year-old who embraces her sexual powers and uses her feminity to succeed sounds like a very modern thing, nearly feminist really. The man that wants to support her, as long as he doesn't make her wear clothes, would be just as much a forward/modern thinker. He is accepting that she sells herself for a living, using her looks to provoke a particular reaction. Is it him "making an honest woman" of her what's wrong then? Is it that those two ideas are so different? As a Christian, I would have been very happy if they could have left that little tidbit out. I think that throwing out that he's a Christian after pointing out that he's been her manager and helping her to prostitute herself, because that's what she looks like in all those pictures, raises my hackles a bit. As a Christian I find the situation repugnant. Not because of the marraige, but because of the path they're leading her down in her career. The marraige seems like the absolute least of the problems. As an American ;), after the 'Slut Walk' I see now that we are supposed to accept that women who want to dress like sluts or empower themselves with slutiness. They are just modern women making their female way in the world! So, she's a modern feminist. He's supporting her. He should be the good guy, because he's her manager, he's helping her help herself. Now he also wants to be her husband and I guess that bothers people, but... eh. If we have to accept 'Slut Walk' then we have to accept younger pop stars slutting it up for money, then imo, a younger pop wannabe that actually marries someone at least seems like they're trying to have some sort of moral restraint. Although, in all reality, it's probably just a paycheck (getting Mom and Dad away from it) sort of thing. Iow, it seems like the modern outcry is really that they're giving in to the idea of marraige (chaining a powerful female down to some shmuck). I mean, the girl has been tramped out, but the problem is she is so young and married?!? :lol: Promiscuity is fine, sluttiness is fine, but MARRAIGE?!?! Oh dear, well now her future is ruined. Oh and sure we can blame it on the age difference, but seriously? That "little girl" hasn't looked like or lived like a little girl for a very long time. Would it have been okay if her husband was 16, 17, 18? I read this whole thread and this is my favorite post. You summed up a lot of my thoughts. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that many grown men want young girls. I have to say, at least this man is marrying this young girl. It could be worse, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Oh good grief...this whole thing makes me nuts!:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Maybe they're just wrong because they're mixing moral standings. The ideas of Christianity and Christian marraige don't seem to sit well next to expressed sexuality and a career based on soliciting lust. Have you seen My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding? Very strange contrast. The girls dress like...er...prostitutes but are very religious and stay virgins until marriage (usually young). It takes all kinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Yes. But if we had laws against everything I (or many other people) thought were icky and inappropriate we'd live in a police state. I think porn, strippers, abortion, little girls dressing like tramps, body piercings, tattoos, drug use, sexual deviancy like S&M, whole body waxing, TV ministers, popular culture, public education, and a plethora of other things are icky and inappropriate - but I don't get to make decisions for other people. They aren't breaking the law. Her parents seem to think it's acceptable and it is a lawful union which means the law of the land agrees. Some people value different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I read this whole thread and this is my favorite post. You summed up a lot of my thoughts. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that many grown men want young girls. I have to say, at least this man is marrying this young girl. It could be worse, in my opinion. If he had sex with her without marrying her, he'd be breaking the law. Why? Because 51-year-old men should not be having sex with/dating/marrying 16-year-old girls. Yes, it could be worse. She is, at least, consenting. Most child brides are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 How's that for role-modeling for my teenage boys? Our oldest is only a few years younger than his new stepmother. In addition to that, I think it puts boys in an awkward postion (maybe not yours, but many). To anwer the OP question, I don't think she looks 16. Honestly, I'd say mid to late 20s. If that is her age, I would then lose all interest in the story. BUT, with both of them being in the entertainment industry, that sort of ruins their plans, doens't it? THey get much more publicity saying that she's 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 They aren't breaking the law. Her parents seem to think it's acceptable and it is a lawful union which means the law of the land agrees. Some people value different things. I'm guessing her parents would happily accept a career in porn if that's what would make their daughter happy. They don't seem to have a problem with her using sex to sell herself. :shrug: Today, isn't that a "good thing?" They're supporting their daughter and her self-esteem, they're empowering her to use her body how SHE thinks is right to get fame and fortune. It sounds like a lot of parents. They accept their children finding their own path, and they believe that nothing is really wrong so all avenues are open. They support their children in going that route. At least they are not frigid fundamentalists that demand their children follow the rigid rules they believe in, since no one is ever really right. Maybe they're just wrong because they're mixing moral standings. The ideas of Christianity and Christian marraige don't seem to sit well next to expressed sexuality and a career based on soliciting lust. A sixteen-year-old who embraces her sexual powers and uses her feminity to succeed sounds like a very modern thing, nearly feminist really. The man that wants to support her, as long as he doesn't make her wear clothes, would be just as much a forward/modern thinker. He is accepting that she sells herself for a living, using her looks to provoke a particular reaction. Is it him "making an honest woman" of her what's wrong then? Is it that those two ideas are so different? As a Christian, I would have been very happy if they could have left that little tidbit out. I think that throwing out that he's a Christian after pointing out that he's been her manager and helping her to prostitute herself, because that's what she looks like in all those pictures, raises my hackles a bit. As a Christian I find the situation repugnant. Not because of the marraige, but because of the path they're leading her down in her career. The marraige seems like the absolute least of the problems. As an American ;), after the 'Slut Walk' I see now that we are supposed to accept that women who want to dress like sluts or empower themselves with slutiness. They are just modern women making their female way in the world! So, she's a modern feminist. He's supporting her. He should be the good guy, because he's her manager, he's helping her help herself. Now he also wants to be her husband and I guess that bothers people, but... eh. If we have to accept 'Slut Walk' then we have to accept younger pop stars slutting it up for money, then imo, a younger pop wannabe that actually marries someone at least seems like they're trying to have some sort of moral restraint. Although, in all reality, it's probably just a paycheck (getting Mom and Dad away from it) sort of thing. Iow, it seems like the modern outcry is really that they're giving in to the idea of marraige (chaining a powerful female down to some shmuck). I mean, the girl has been tramped out, but the problem is she is so young and married?!? :lol: Promiscuity is fine, sluttiness is fine, but MARRAIGE?!?! Oh dear, well now her future is ruined. Oh and sure we can blame it on the age difference, but seriously? That "little girl" hasn't looked like or lived like a little girl for a very long time. Would it have been okay if her husband was 16, 17, 18? Interesting POV. To me, a Christian Husband should be protecting his wife from leering pervs. Not encouraging them. Especially if one of those leering pervs turns into a stalker/rapist. I need more coffee to get my thoughts straight on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 "Courtney, an aspiring actress, model and pop singer, met her husband when he began managing her career.*Her parents welcomed Hutchinson, who is four years older than his new father-in-law, into their lives when he started dating their daughter." He was her manager? :001_huh: That makes this feel even ickier. : What do you think about Celine Dion? Similar situation...young singer marries her older manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 As if we don't have enough problems with perverted men looking at normal little girls, now parents are just helping them along. :rant: A sixteen year old is not a little girl. I would not want my 17 year old marrying at 51 year old, but the reality is that my daughter is sexually matured. She is no longer a little girl. She has a woman's body, and her interests and desires are not those of a little girl. Pedophiles are those who are stimulated by prepubescent children. Normal men don't look at little girls. Normal men, however, do look at sexually mature teenaged girls. It's a fact of life, and I don't think it's sick. Preying (forcing advances on someone who doesn't want it) on a adolescent girl is, but merely looking/finding attractive is normal and has been throughout history. The only reason we in this society think it is weird/disturbing is because we have embraced the idea of adolescence as a part of childhood. I wouldn't allow my dd to do this, but I don't think it's abuse or necessarily sick. Her parents did not, it appears, push her into it. It's outside the norm in our culture, but which of us can say that it won't turn out wonderfully for these people? Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 A sixteen year old is not a little girl. I would not want my 17 year old marrying at 51 year old, but the reality is that my daughter is sexually matured. She is no longer a little girl. She has a woman's body, and her interests and desires are not those of a little girl. Pedophiles are those who are stimulated by prepubescent children. Normal men don't look at little girls. Normal men, however, do look at sexually mature teenaged girls. It's a fact of life, and I don't think it's sick. Preying (forcing advances on someone who doesn't want it) on a adolescent girl is, but merely looking/finding attractive is normal and has been throughout history. The only reason we in this society think it is weird/disturbing is because we have embraced the idea of adolescence as a part of childhood. I wouldn't allow my dd to do this, but I don't think it's abuse or necessarily sick. Her parents did not, it appears, push her into it. It's outside the norm in our culture, but which of us can say that it won't turn out wonderfully for these people? Tara I don't know that that's normal. Teens aren't fully physically mature. They are in the process. I can't imagine looking at a teen boy in that way. Can't fathom it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I can't imagine looking at a teen boy in that way. Can't fathom it. Women are different than men in that women are generally not as visually stimulated. In the first Harry Potter movie, the actor who portrayed Oliver Wood was VERY cute. I wasn't necessarily lusting after him, but I did think he was extremely attractive. I wikied him to make sure he was 18. ;) You can't always tell. I don't know that that's normal. Throughout history it has been the norm for older men to marry adolescent girls. I don't think this is because older men appreciating younger bodies (not wrinkled and saggy, like me ;) ) is sick and twisted. I think it's normal. My dh and I have had many discussions about this, as we have an adolescent dd and another one on the way there. My dh, who is not a creepy, teenager-chasing freak, has told me that visually, there really isn't any difference between a teenager with a 36-C and an adult with a 36-C. It is what it is. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Mama Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) What do you think about Celine Dion? Similar situation...young singer marries her older manager. Not even the same type of situation. Celine was an adult. ETA: Hmm... Was Celine an adult? I quickly answered, but not sure about that. Must go look that up. ETA (again): So Celine was 18 or 19 when they started dating, engaged 4 years later and married 3 years after that. Edited June 23, 2011 by TN Mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I got married at 16. The parents (who in this case are obviously not in their right mind) can sign for her to marry. I don't know if it's still the case, but 20 years ago some states allowed marriage at 16 in certain circumstances without a signature from a parent. But your husband isn't 69 years old. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Did you all see the other thread about this yesterday? I had looked him up on IMDB and he played Horace in Lost. :eek: :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 They aren't breaking the law. Her parents seem to think it's acceptable and it is a lawful union which means the law of the land agrees. It is *barely* legal. I think the "Christian" bit is an act. He wanted to marry her before he had intercourse with her to cover himself legally. Again, if they weren't married, then it would be a felony. Some people value different things. I'm guessing her parents would happily accept a career in porn if that's what would make their daughter happy. They don't seem to have a problem with her using sex to sell herself. :shrug: Today, isn't that a "good thing?" They're supporting their daughter and her self-esteem, they're empowering her to use her body how SHE thinks is right to get fame and fortune. It sounds like a lot of parents. They accept their children finding their own path, and they believe that nothing is really wrong so all avenues are open. They support their children in going that route. At least they are not frigid fundamentalists that demand their children follow the rigid rules they believe in, since no one is ever really right. Accepting that adults have to make their own choices as a general rule for society is very, very different from *personally endorsing it* and it is very, very different from personally endorsing it where a *minor* is concerned. I accept that adults have to make their own choices. However, when it comes to my *personal circle* I encourage people against certain choices that I think are bad ideas, whether or not they are legal. As a *parent* I view it as my responsibility to protect my kids at least until they are legal adults. When they become adults, they might engage in behavior I didn't like. If they became an alcoholic, I would stage an intervention. If necessary, I would stop being around them until they decided to make a life change. I would do the same for other legal but bad decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 For me, marriage is forever. You get married, you stay married, and you grow old together. I wouldn't want to do that with a man 35 years older than I am because I know what it's like to help a disabled man bath and toilet, and I don't want to spend my 50s doing that. Though it happens, of course, even with couples close in age, and that's part of "better or worse, sickness or health." I think a lot of people don't think about it that way, though. Marriage doesn't seem to be "forever" in our culture to a huge number of people. To someone who thinks of marriage as a "for now" thing, maybe this isn't all bad. Maybe she wants to have a 7 - 10 year marriage. If that were the case (and I morally object, but that's just my position and the law provides for this) I could see how she might want this. She will get the legal benefits of marriage, his financial support, better "tea" than she would with a guy closer to her age, and the joy of being with a man who is close to his best. My DH is 51 and he is wealthier, nicer, better looking, smarter, more compassionate, funnier, and more sophisticated than he was at 25. Any woman in her right mind would rather have a five year marriage with my DH than someone close to this girl's age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) A sixteen year old is not a little girl. I would not want my 17 year old marrying at 51 year old, but the reality is that my daughter is sexually matured. She is no longer a little girl. She has a woman's body, and her interests and desires are not those of a little girl. Pedophiles are those who are stimulated by prepubescent children. Normal men don't look at little girls. Normal men, however, do look at sexually mature teenaged girls. It's a fact of life, and I don't think it's sick. Preying (forcing advances on someone who doesn't want it) on a adolescent girl is, but merely looking/finding attractive is normal and has been throughout history. The only reason we in this society think it is weird/disturbing is because we have embraced the idea of adolescence as a part of childhood. :iagree: I think it's an abuse of power, and not something I'd support. But there's nothing sick or perverted, sexually, about a grown man finding a post-pubescent teen girl attractive. For most of human history, you were a child, went through puberty, and then were an adult. Adolescence is a relatively modern invention, and I don't expect that human nature is going to change to accommodate that. There are certainly good reasons why we don't allow sexual relationships between adults and teens, but it is a whole different issue than adults being sexually attracted to prepubescent children. An adult male who finds post-pubescent teen girls sexually attractive is not a pedophile (or, I'd imagine, all that unusual). It is pathological to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children, but I think it would be incredibly difficult to argue that finding adolescents who are sexually mature attractive is pathological. FWIW, many of the models we see in magazines and catalogs and commercials and on runways are teen girls, made up to look older. They are held up in our culture as the epitome of female sexual attractiveness. Is it any wonder, then, that many men would also find them sexually attractive? That said, I'm not buying that Courtney Stodden is actually 16. She looks like she could be pushing 40, to me. Edited June 23, 2011 by twoforjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 :iagree: I think it's an abuse of power, and not something I'd support. But there's nothing sick or perverted, sexually, about a grown man finding a post-pubescent teen girl attractive. For most of human history, you were a child, went through puberty, and then were an adult. Adolescence is a relatively modern invention, and I don't expect that human nature is going to change to accommodate that. There are certainly good reasons why we don't allow sexual relationships between adults and teens, but it is a whole different issue than adults being sexually attracted to prepubescent children. An adult male who finds post-pubescent teen girls sexually attractive is not a pedophile (or, I'd imagine, all that unusual). It is pathological to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children, but I think it would be incredibly difficult to argue that finding adolescents who are sexually mature attractive is pathological. FWIW, many of the models we see in magazines and catalogs and commercials and on runways are teen girls, made up to look older. They are held up in our culture as the epitome of female sexual attractiveness. Is it any wonder, then, that many men would also find them sexually attractive? That said, I'm not buying that Courtney Stodden is actually 16. She looks like she could be pushing 40, to me. One of my friends went through puberty in 3rd grade. Was she an adult after that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 It is pathological to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children, but I think it would be incredibly difficult to argue that finding adolescents who are sexually mature attractive is pathological. Did anyone say that? Honestly, I haven't gone back through the whole thread to look, but I think most people were saying more what I said. Here is what I said: A man that age dating a girl that young has issues.Finding attractive and dating are not the same thing. I have to agree with sputterduck that going through puberty doesn't make you an adult. My niece is 10, she has her period, she very likely won't get much taller than she is now, physically she is pretty much mature. Is it okay if someone wants to marry her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And, yes, guys it would be different if he was her age. For the same reason that it's okay for a 12 year old to have a crush on another 12 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Did anyone say that? Honestly, I haven't gone back through the whole thread to look, but I think most people were saying more what I said. Here is what I said: Finding attractive and dating are not the same thing. I have to agree with sputterduck that going through puberty doesn't make you an adult. My niece is 10, she has her period, she very likely won't get much taller than she is now, physically she is pretty much mature. Is it okay if someone wants to marry her? I think the issue is that words like "sick" and "pedophile" get thrown around, and that's just not the case. 16 is the age of consent in many states. 16 year olds can and have been getting married for pretty much as long as there's been marriage. Not to mention, this girl's life experience is very different from that of a "normal" 16-year-old. She is in the entertainment industry. She apparently had/has her own TV show. She probably has far more in common with this guy, who is also part of the entertainment industry, than she would with your typical 16-year-old boy. The argument against adults and older teens that makes sense to me is that they really don't have anything in common; your average high school student has very little in common with your average 51-year-old man. But neither of these people lead typical lives. Now, I do think it was unwise for her parents to get her involved in the entertainment industry at her age, and to apparently condone her marketing herself based on her sexuality, but given all of that, this pairing really doesn't seem that weird to me. And, I agree that going through puberty doesn't make you an adult, but 18 is an arbitrary age. Most 18 year olds I know have far more in common with 15 and 16 year olds than they do with people in their 20s. And, if we want to go by maturity, we know that most people don't mature, in terms of things like decision-making and impulse control, until their mid 20s. We could just as easily locate "adulthood" at 15/16 (when most people have gone through puberty and are sexually mature) or at 25/26 (when most people's brains have matured) as we can at 18. Given how slippery these things are, and how diverse people are, I'm just not inclined to pass judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Is that a correct picture? They both look like they are in their 30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 For the same reason that it's okay for a 12 year old to have a crush on another 12 year old. That's actually so not ok in some segments of society ... in some respects, it's all relative. FWIW, I do find some teenage boys attractive. I'm not interested in pursuing a relationship with them, because I'm pretty certain our interests and life goals wouldn't be in sync, but ... they are still cute. Perhaps this guy is just really immature. There's no law saying that adults must be mature. Maybe his interests are more in sync with a teenager's and they get along smashingly. Maybe she is unusually mature (psychologically) for her age and they get along smashingly. I don't think we can know enough from the outside to make a decision about that. I think sixteen year olds are old enough to make decisions about their lives. I wouldn't sign for my 16 year old to get married, but the parents did nothing illegal and there is no sign of coercion, right? Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 16 is the age of consent in many states. 16 year olds can and have been getting married for pretty much as long as there's been marriage. They live in California, the age of consent there is 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that many grown men want young girls. I have to say, at least this man is marrying this young girl. A 16 year old is not, to me, a 'young girl.' A young woman, yes, but not a young girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) They live in California, the age of consent there is 18. I have to admit, I find that kind of demeaning to older teen girls. I was fully capable of consenting to sex at 16 and 17. I have friends who consented to sex at 14 and 15. Would it have been the wisest choice? No. But, it was a choice I was capable of making, and the idea that any guy over 18 who would have had sex with me was a predator who deserved to spend his life publicly labelled a sex offender alongside adults who molested and raped small children just appalls me. I'm just very concerned with how, as a society, we've elided the serious problem of adults preying sexually on prepubescent children who have no capacity to consent with what we seem to think is an equally serious problem of adults entering into consensual sexual relationships with post-pubescent teens. There are good reasons to not want our teens having sex, and good reasons to want them to have relationship with people their own age, but I just don't think this is something that should be a criminal matter. Edited June 23, 2011 by twoforjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I have to admit, I find that kind of demeaning to older teen girls. I was fully capable of consenting to sex at 16 and 17. I have friends who consented to sex at 14 and 15. Would it have been the wisest choice? No. But, it was a choice I was capable of making, and the idea that any guy over 18 who would have had sex with me was a predator who deserved to spend his life publicly labelled a sex offender alongside adults who molested and raped small children just appalls me. I'm just very concerned with how, as a society, we've elided the serious problem of adults preying sexually on prepubescent children who have no capacity to consent with what we seem to think is an equally serious problem of adults entering into consensual sexual relationships with post-pubescent teens. There are good reasons to not want our teens having sex, and good reasons to want them to have relationship with people their own age, but I just don't think this is something that should be a criminal matter. In California the reasons are more economic. They have the most teen pregnancies of any state. Most of the dads are adults. WHY SO MUCH ATTENTION TO STATUTORY RAPE? California has the highest teen birth rate in the U.S. Every 8 minutes, a teenager in California has a baby. 3 of 4 births to High School girls are fathered by adults. Men over 25 account for twice as many teen births as boys under 18 years old. The Average Age difference between the teen victim and the adult defendant in cases filed by the District Attorney is 7years 9months. Men over 20 are responsible for 5 times as many births among junior high school girls. In California almost 70% of teen births are fathered by adult men. On an average California day 76 teenage girls, 17 & younger, will give birth. In Stanislaus County over 6% of teenage girls will give birth in any given year. In 1993 1,572 births in California were to mothers 14 years or younger. The rate of sexually transmitted disease among teenage girls is twice that of teenage boys. This all translates into a tremendous drain in our welfare and medical resources statewide. AFDC and Medi-Cal costs for 1 teen pregnancy, birth and 1st year support is $10,000. Total costs for teen births to those 17 and younger in 1993 for California were $140 million. Obviously, a LOT of teen girls are *not* capable of making good choices in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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