Episcopal Church joins Catholic Church

[asta]

Well, to some people, he's a Big Deal. Especially, weirdly enough, to many non-Catholics. I have a few Baptist friends, who are always going on about the Pope and how he's the anti-Christ and all that. It's kind of funny how they feel so strongly about him, that they end up giving him a great deal of relevance by virtue of all the energy and emotion they spend hating him.

 

The way I look at it is like this: I subscribe to the dogma that Jesus named Simon "Peter" (the whole [paraphrase in bad English here] I shall call you Peter, and upon this rock [rock & Peter being the same word] I shall build my church) to be the first pope.

 

From that, I "buy into" the succession of popes. Were I in Rome, I could probably buy a handy placemat that had the entire succession of popes neatly illuminated for study purposes. I could even add in the "anti-popes" or "Pope Joan" (shhhhh).

 

Regardless -- I accept an unbroken line from Jesus to Peter to Benedict 16. Yes, there is East and West and wars and money and fighting and kings and crusades and mistresses and corruption and Luther and

 

WHATEVER!

 

I BUY IT.

 

Some people buy healing crystals. I buy a bunch of guys in funny robes with 2000 year old sh!t in their basement that the majority of the world would be hard pressed to argue with. People will just have to deal with it.

 

---

 

I don't buy all of the stuff that subsequently splintered off of it. I have, with my own two eyes, physically read a wee bit of Luther's original writings. In pen, on parchment. The guy. went. loony. That is my own opinion. I don't have a medical degree. I just work with crazy people every day.

 

I also don't buy into illiterate people writing holy books in caves that tell people to die by the sword. Again, my own opinion.

 

Given that, a Baptist being p!ssed off that the Pope exists is small potatoes - because there are a heck of a lot more people like me than there are of them.

 

Scary, eh?

 

 

a

[nono]

You know, we need to be more careful with titles. While I still consider myself RC, I worship, and am bringing my children up, in an E church. It's like reading my secret hideout was discovered! :tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, and who injected Asta with truth serum?? :D

[aggieamy]

The way I look at it is like this: I subscribe to the dogma that Jesus named Simon "Peter" (the whole [paraphrase in bad English here] I shall call you Peter, and upon this rock [rock & Peter being the same word] I shall build my church) to be the first pope.

 

From that, I "buy into" the succession of popes. Were I in Rome, I could probably buy a handy placemat that had the entire succession of popes neatly illuminated for study purposes. I could even add in the "anti-popes" or "Pope Joan" (shhhhh).

 

Regardless -- I accept an unbroken line from Jesus to Peter to Benedict 16. Yes, there is East and West and wars and money and fighting and kings and crusades and mistresses and corruption and Luther and

 

WHATEVER!

 

I BUY IT.

 

Some people buy healing crystals. I buy a bunch of guys in funny robes with 2000 year old sh!t in their basement that the majority of the world would be hard pressed to argue with. People will just have to deal with it.

 

---

 

I don't buy all of the stuff that subsequently splintered off of it. I have, with my own two eyes, physically read a wee bit of Luther's original writings. In pen, on parchment. The guy. went. loony. That is my own opinion. I don't have a medical degree. I just work with crazy people every day.

 

I also don't buy into illiterate people writing holy books in caves that tell people to die by the sword. Again, my own opinion.

 

Given that, a Baptist being p!ssed off that the Pope exists is small potatoes - because there are a heck of a lot more people like me than there are of them.

 

Scary, eh?

 

 

a

 

Asta - you rock! I buy into it too. II love my faith despite the fact that some of the guys in it were a little bit dishonorable. That's small picture stuff - the big picture is 2000 years of history.

[ktgrok]

 

Some people buy healing crystals. I buy a bunch of guys in funny robes with 2000 year old sh!t in their basement that the majority of the world would be hard pressed to argue with. People will just have to deal with it.

 

 

 

a

 

Can I quote you on my facebook page? Anonymously of course? That was AWESOME!

[Avila]

Add me to the Asta fans. She is on a roll today! :D

[wapiti]

I want to know what she ate for breakfast. :)

[AmericanMom]

Charles Colson, when in a position of power, abused his position, committed felonies, undermined the Constitution and helped put the United States through hell. His actions were as far away from creating a "heaven on earth" as possible. For me that history doesn't get washed away by his claim of being born again.

 

Bill

 

So all of the good he has done over the past 30 or 40 years with people rotting in prison around the world counts for nothing because he was once a despicable person, so he will always be a despicable person?

 

Wow. I'm glad I never screwed up that badly. At least not in public. I guess we can all sit around the campfire and feel like we are such good people. Should we throw pies at his picture, too? What did that Pharisee say? Oh yeah, thank you God that I am not like that sinner over there.

 

(For the record, Colson is married to a Roman Catholic and defends Catholicism to Protestants everywhere. He is also very much a promoter of Christian unity among Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox. Just to relate back to the original post, which was about Christian unity, not despicable people.)

[asta]

Can I quote you on my facebook page? Anonymously of course? That was AWESOME!

 

Sure, what the heck - by tomorrow, all of the insight will be gone...

 

 

a

[mommaduck]

Or, one could just sit back and recognize that the Holy Spirit worked all of this out eons before any of us were born... and that we all just have a different role to play for the plan to come to fruition.

 

 

a

 

 

(who had a rather large shakabuku moment this week)

 

Exactly...and thank you for the redirection ;)

[WishboneDawn]

I don't think people will be coming in droves but its definitely a start.

 

 

I appreciate the spirit in which you offer that sentiment but as an Anglican I feel I must resond with this...

 

:001_tt2::001_tt2::001_tt2:

 

 

:D

[WishboneDawn]

 

Yep :D I'm just waiting for the RC to come back ;)

:lol::lol::lol:

[WishboneDawn]

To clarify , raised Catholic. On mother's side, literally several generations of Episcopalian ministers. Thus I do have an insider view on both that forms the basis of my opinion.

 

Anglican on one side here and RC on the other.

*shrug*

[asta]

This has been a fun thread but alas, I must go to bed.

 

G'night all.

 

 

asta

[Elizabeth in MN]

A better title for this thread might be "Break-away Episcopalians become kinda Catholic".

 

The Episcopal church is alive and well, thankyouverymuch.

[Laura Corin]

I'm sure everyone will be watching closely to see the transition. Sounds like it's coming to a church near you soon! I think it's so cool to think that we can soon go to Mass in the beautiful old stone Episcopal and Anglican churches. :)

 

Very few in the UK have made the move.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Dumb question. Is the Episcopal Church similar to The Church of England (Prince William's church)? Is that Anglican? I really enjoyed the lovely service when Will and Kate were married.

 

It will be interesting to see if Prince William takes on the same role when it is his turn to be king, after Prince Charles dies.

 

Laura

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I'm sure everyone will be watching closely to see the transition. Sounds like it's coming to a church near you soon! I think it's so cool to think that we can soon go to Mass in the beautiful old stone Episcopal and Anglican churches. :)

 

 

I don't think it is that simple.

 

As I understand the union, there are many provisions that seem to allow the former Episcopalians to keep their services and prayer books. They may not be required to switch to a fully Roman Catholic mass and practices. It is far more complicated than them just instantly becoming RC.

 

Also-the Episcopal Church owns many of those old stone buildings. They don't intend to give them up in many cases. They have even gone to court to keep them when a congregation has chosen to leave.

[Remudamom]

Can't go through the whole thread, but I grew up in an Episcopal church when they were reformed. Now we go to a reformed PCA. Have to drive three hours total on Sundays but it's worth it. The very lovely little Episcopal church near us is ultra liberal and leans to Roman.

[Teachin'Mine]

There is a parish near me that has been waiting for the ordinariate to be implemented. They hope to cross over soon. I am very interested to see what happens, as I love my Anglican heritage, and also the worldwide historic nature of my Catholic church. This may impact me in a personal way.

 

Laura, this is the post I was responding to when I said that it sounds like it will be coming to a parish near you soon. ;)

 

Jumped, I agree that it's not simple. Hopefully the congregations which do make the change will be able to keep their church - sounds like some will be on lease.

 

How much of their current service remains the same won't be an obstacle for a RC to attend Mass there. Once they are accepted into the RC Church, we can attend and receive Communion there. :)

 

Nono and others, sorry about the title confusion. :tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

Can't go through the whole thread, but I grew up in an Episcopal church when they were reformed. Now we go to a reformed PCA. Have to drive three hours total on Sundays but it's worth it. The very lovely little Episcopal church near us is ultra liberal and leans to Roman.

I find that a bit ironic since the RC is anything but liberal.

[Spy Car]

So all of the good he has done over the past 30 or 40 years with people rotting in prison around the world counts for nothing because he was once a despicable person, so he will always be a despicable person?

 

Wow. I'm glad I never screwed up that badly. At least not in public. I guess we can all sit around the campfire and feel like we are such good people. Should we throw pies at his picture, too? What did that Pharisee say? Oh yeah, thank you God that I am not like that sinner over there.

 

(For the record, Colson is married to a Roman Catholic and defends Catholicism to Protestants everywhere. He is also very much a promoter of Christian unity among Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox. Just to relate back to the original post, which was about Christian unity, not despicable people.)

 

Charles Colson hid incalculable damage to this nation. He continues to pursue a right-wing political agenda while wrapping himself in the cloak of redemption.

 

I am not buying it. I think it takes a supreme amount of chutzpah for a man like Charles Colson to lecture on values. If he did his penance for his sins (great sins) in a spirit of quiet humility it might be easier to cut him some slack. Instead he has set himself up as a high-profile leader of a political force and has shown no humility what-so-ever.

 

I consider him a hypocrite of the very worst kind and one of the last people I would ever turn to for moral leadership.

 

Bill

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Can't go through the whole thread, but I grew up in an Episcopal church when they were reformed. Now we go to a reformed PCA. Have to drive three hours total on Sundays but it's worth it. The very lovely little Episcopal church near us is ultra liberal and leans to Roman.

 

I find that a bit ironic since the RC is anything but liberal.

 

You were reading my mind, Chucki!

[mom4him]

I am curious, how will this work with the priest? In one they are not allowed to marry in the other, if I understand it right, they even ordain gay/lesbians.

PLEASE, I am not trying to start a feud, I am just genuinely curious.

[Spy Car]

Here is what our very own SWB had to say about Charles Colson's book:

 

Born Again, Charles W. Colson (1976)

Come on, Chuck. We really want to know what happened at the Watergate. But Watergate occurs in an offhand half-sentence: Colson heard about it on the radio. If you want to know what Colson is confessing to, then, the answer is simple. Pride. Pride drove Colson to serve Nixon with a religious fervour; he describes the Nixon presidency as an extended “Holy War against the enemy–those who opposed the noble goals we sought of peace and stability in the world. They who differed with us, whatever their motives, must be vanquished.†Colson, after his conversion, is still pursuing the same goals; he is still fighting a cultural war, this time against the enemy of secular humanism. But he never admits the likeness–even though his memoir makes very clear just how interrelated the strategies of political and evangelical leaders have become.

 

[PinkInTheBlue]

One of the reasons I'm even mildly considering visiting my local episcopal church is because I understood many episcopal churches were moving to being ok with homosexual relationships and female ministers. How could I find out where my one local Episcopal church stands on these ideas?

 

I've never been to neither a Catholic nor Episcopal church, so I don't know what to expect. I fear there is so much jargon and tradition that I'm going to be so lost and, potentially, embarrassed.

 

My local Episcopal church has pictures of events posted on their website and some of their pictures of events at member's houses and such include bottles of wine and most people having a glass. I thought that was great and hilarious. I haven't been to church in many, many years and was a Southern Baptist minister's wife then. The differences are drastic and I'm so intrigued. :)

 

I really hope my local Episcopal churh isn't considering this. Any advice from Episcopals who can give me some ideas?

[WishboneDawn]

I find that a bit ironic since the RC is anything but liberal.

 

Maybe she means it's High Anglican? A much more Catholic feel to the services?

[WishboneDawn]

I really hope my local Episcopal churh isn't considering this. Any advice from Episcopals who can give me some ideas?

 

If you're wondering about your local Episcopal church just call them up and ask them. They likely be glad to help you. Alternately you could call the diocese and ask if there are any Episcopal churches in your area fitting your needs.

 

Anglicans and Episcopals aren't moving towards being okay with homosexuality and the ordination of women, in many cases we're already there. Most of the Anglican ministers I know are women and the bishop of our diocese is a woman. We've been ordaining women since the 70's.The Episcopal church has not only been ordaining gay people but has consecrated a gay Bishop, Gene Robinson.

[Jackie in NE]

Just curious... have you read any of his books?? He is the first to admit that his actions were despicable. Is there no grace, and no redemption possible from your point of view?? Oh, and you've given me a perfect example of an ad hominem attack to use in my next logic lesson with dd. Sheesh!

[KarenNC]

I am curious, how will this work with the priest? In one they are not allowed to marry in the other, if I understand it right, they even ordain gay/lesbians.

PLEASE, I am not trying to start a feud, I am just genuinely curious.

 

There must have been a means for married clergy to convert for a while, as I know there was a married priest at a local RC church at least 20 years ago (former Episcopalian, I believe). As I understand it (admittedly probably quite imperfectly;)), it is possible for a married *male* priest from some denominations to convert and go through a process to become ordained as a Roman Catholic priest (it isn't automatic), but that he is not allowed to remarry if his wife dies.

[WishboneDawn]

 

I've never been to neither a Catholic nor Episcopal church, so I don't know what to expect. I fear there is so much jargon and tradition that I'm going to be so lost and, potentially, embarrassed.

 

Forgot to address this. :) Don't worry. It's really not all that complicated. You'll likely get a program as you enter that will explain what will happen, the order and which pages of what book to go to. Don't feel like you need to know it all.

 

I grew up pretty much unchurched and it was this same fear that kept me away but it's not a problem at all. If you still feel nervous just mention to a greeter or even the minister at some point that you don't know the ropes and was hoping someone could guide you. And feel free to approach someone if no one approaches you right off. They'll be delighted that you're there.

[Melinda in VT]

 

I really hope my local Episcopal churh isn't considering this. Any advice from Episcopals who can give me some ideas?

 

The Episcopalian church near me has a "Resolution on Inclusion" on their site. Does yours have anything like that?

[WishboneDawn]

I am curious, how will this work with the priest? In one they are not allowed to marry in the other, if I understand it right, they even ordain gay/lesbians.

PLEASE, I am not trying to start a feud, I am just genuinely curious.

 

It won't work for a LOT of Episcopals which is why there won't be any mass (he he he) exodus (hee hee) to the Catholic Church anytime soon.

[Starr]

The Episcopal parishes that join the Roman Catholic Church usually do so because they find the Episcopal Church too liberal. They will become officially part of the Roman Catholic Church called The Ordinariate, formally The Pastoral Provision. A priest may be married upon entering but may not marry once in the RC Church. These churches may use Anglican liturgies approved by the Roman Catholic Church.

 

The Episcopal Church has been going to court to keep most all buildings of churches leaving The Episcopal Church to join any other church affiliation. They are mostly winning their cases. Untold amounts of money are going into litigation.

 

Jessica you are most likely to find a liberal Episcopal Church. They are not my first choice. ;) But don't worry about giving it a try. Often it's easier to not worry about following the liturgy in the beginning but just listen and keep up with the music. If people aren't friendly, try another.

[KarenNC]

If you're wondering about your local Episcopal church just call them up and ask them. They likely be glad to help you. Alternately you could call the diocese and ask if there are any Episcopal churches in your area fitting your needs.

 

Anglicans and Episcopals aren't moving towards being okay with homosexuality and the ordination of women, in many cases we're already there. Most of the Anglican ministers I know are women and the bishop of our diocese is a woman. We've been ordaining women since the 70's.The Episcopal church has not only been ordaining gay people but has consecrated a gay Bishop, Gene Robinson.

 

Agreed. I think it is highly likely that any church planning to make such a huge move has probably already made a move from the Episcopal Church USA http://www.episcopalchurch.org/index.htm to the Anglican Church of North America http://www.anglicanchurch.net/. The distinction is not foolproof, but a reasonable guideline.

 

Also, the website of the church in the article describes it as "Anglo-Catholic" and "Anglican" rather than "Episcopalian." I don't know at what point that wording was there (the site says it is being redone), but those are terms to be aware of. To me, it would indicate a need to investigate further.

[PinkInTheBlue]

If you're wondering about your local Episcopal church just call them up and ask them. They likely be glad to help you. Alternately you could call the diocese and ask if there are any Episcopal churches in your area fitting your needs.

 

Anglicans and Episcopals aren't moving towards being okay with homosexuality and the ordination of women, in many cases we're already there. Most of the Anglican ministers I know are women and the bishop of our diocese is a woman. We've been ordaining women since the 70's.The Episcopal church has not only been ordaining gay people but has consecrated a gay Bishop, Gene Robinson.

 

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

The local church's website is nativitydothan.org. Can you tell anything from there?

[Spy Car]

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

The local church's website is nativitydothan.org. Can you tell anything from there?

 

The Episcopal Priest at my brother's church is a woman. Here the Episcopal Church has been a leading force in affirming the human rights of all including gays, lesbians and the transgendered. They also have very active social missions to feed the hungry.

 

Bill

[KarenNC]

The Episcopal Church has been going to court to keep most all buildings of churches leaving The Episcopal Church to join any other church affiliation. They are mostly winning their cases. Untold amounts of money are going into litigation.

 

I would also be shocked if the Roman Catholic Church did not do the same thing if positions were reversed. Property, particularly that of churches built a long time ago in urban areas, is a very valuable asset. :)

[Starr]

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

The local church's website is nativitydothan.org. Can you tell anything from there?

 

You can call the church office and make an appointment to meet the "rector", pastor. Just tell them you haven't been to church in a long time and you want to know more about their church. The web site has a woman listed as the rector.

[KarenNC]

The local church's website is nativitydothan.org. Can you tell anything from there?

 

Look at the staff page. Their current rector (head priest) is a woman, while the assistant priest is a man. I think that probably answers your question.;)

[PinkInTheBlue]

You can call the church office and make an appointment to meet the "rector", pastor. Just tell them you haven't been to church in a long time and you want to know more about their church. The web site has a woman listed as the rector.

 

Look at the staff page. Their current rector (head priest) is a woman, while the assistant priest is a man. I think that probably answers your question.;)

 

I guess that does make them highly unlikely to be going the Catholic way, huh? ;) Didn't think of that.

[WishboneDawn]

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks!

 

The local church's website is nativitydothan.org. Can you tell anything from there?

 

The Reverend Ede Plovanich serves as the ninth rector of Nativity. She was our Curate prior to becoming our Rector on January 3, 2008. Nativity is truly blessed to have Mother Ede as our Rector.

 

 

The rector is the minister to the parish so they've got a female minister. Generally the parishes that are not okay with the ordination of homosexuals are also not okay with the ordination of women so that's promising. :)

 

In light of your previous comments about being nervous abotu what to do this is from their site as well;

 

When you visit our Church, please make yourself known to the ushers or clergy before or after the service if you care to do so. If we can be of any special assistance you, let us know that also. We want you to feel at home in our Church, but we do not want to intrude if you want to worship quietly and go away without giving your name.

 

This means you'll likely be greeted and get a warm smile but not much beyond that if you don't make some overture first. We DO have our uptight British roots to consider after all. :D Don't think this means the people are unfriendly or you're not welcome, it's just that they don't want to presume and impose on you. It's a quirk. :) Just approach the ushers, greeters (if they have them) or clergy and introduce yourself and let them know you're interested in attending for a bit and learning more.

 

Also, if you want to receive communion I didn't see anything on their website but I know that in the Anglican church here all the baptized are welcome, regardless of which church they were baptized in so your Baptist baptism marks you as part of the Christian community and you're welcome to receive communion. This might be something you want to ask about beforehand though.

 

Just don't worry about approaching anyone. We're generally pretty thrilled when someone considers us and you'll likely get a warm reception. Between the more flashy Protestant denominations and the grand EO and RC we can sometimes feel like the practical cousin dragged to a dance and destined to be a wall flower, at least that's the picture in my head. :D Ask us to dance though and we'll be happy to!

[justamouse]

Just don't worry about approaching anyone. We're generally pretty thrilled when someone considers us and you'll likely get a warm reception. Between the more flashy Protestant denominations and the grand EO and RC we can sometimes feel like the practical cousin dragged to a dance and destined to be a wall flower, at least that's the picture in my head. :D Ask us to dance though and we'll be happy to!

 

lol!:D

[Rosie_0801]

It will be interesting to see if Prince William takes on the same role when it is his turn to be king, after Prince Charles dies.

 

Laura

 

I think Prince Charles is intending to take the 'Defender of the Faiths' line even further than the Queen already does. Can he opt out of being head of the church?

 

Rosie

[Lady Dove]

:grouphug: I hope this union will strengthen the church as a whole and not cause more conflict within. Our beliefs are so similar, it makes so much sense to join hands and hearts to lead the world to Christ!!! Awesome news!

[Teachin'Mine]

Probably a better subject line would be "Episcopal parish joins Catholic Church."

 

Be happy to change it if you'd share how it's done. ;)

 

Actually I'd just add an "An" to the beginning of the title. :)

[Teachin'Mine]

:grouphug: I hope this union will strengthen the church as a whole and not cause more conflict within. Our beliefs are so similar, it makes so much sense to join hands and hearts to lead the world to Christ!!! Awesome news!

 

Those are my thoughts too. :)

[Teachin'Mine]

Oh, I'm not asking for a change. It is just more specific, and I only brought it up as a point of clarity, not argument or correction, really. :0)

 

No you're right! Others had brought it up too, and I tried to edit my original post, but it doesn't allow for the title to be changed. :tongue_smilie: I was serious. :lol: I think it should be changed, but I have no idea how to do that. :)

[milovany]

No you're right! Others had brought it up too' date=' and I tried to edit my original post, but it doesn't allow for the title to be changed. :tongue_smilie: I was serious. :lol: I think it should be changed, but I have no idea how to do that. :)[/quote']

 

You actually can "edit" the title if you click "Go Advanced" once you're in the editing window --- BUT (and this is why I put edit in quotation marks), it doesn't show on the board when you save it! :tongue_smilie: (I think it might show once you open the thread; but I'm not sure.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

You actually can "edit" the title if you click "Go Advanced" once you're in the editing window --- BUT (and this is why I put edit in quotation marks), it doesn't show on the board when you save it! :tongue_smilie: (I think it might show once you open the thread; but I'm not sure.)

 

It only works if you do it before there are any replies to the thread.

[Hannah C.]

Before the Revolutionary War, there was the Church of England. During/after the Revolutionary War, the Anglicans in the colonies quickly realized that being part of the Church of England wasn't gonna cut it, so they changed their name to the Protestant Episcopal Church. :D The name change is a footnote in my thesis, hee hee.

 

The Episcopal/Anglican churches which join the Catholic Church are not going to be ones that had women or gay priests to begin with. There's division within the Episcopal/Anglican church that isn't immediately visible.

 

The Byzantine rite of the Catholic Church has some married priests. I believe the rule is basically, if you were married before you were called to the priesthood, you can still become a priest. But if you were unmarried, you don't get to get married. So, having married priests is not without precedent in the Catholic Church. The Latin/Roman rite, however, does not have married priests, though it can have widowed priests.

 

Also - Asta, your posts were amazing.