My Parents Drugged Me author unknown

[Crissy]

When posting something like this (which clearly isn't meant to be taken literally--really, who even knows what a woodshed is any more?), or the article on food stamps and soft drinks, or Denise's "I may have overreacted" post, to name a few from the last week or so, provokes so much controversy and argument, what, exactly, have we all come to?

 

 

 

 

Terri

 

We've come to a discussion board in order to discuss a variety of topics. ;)

[ChristusG]

LOL, I think that some people are taking this way too deeply. I liked it. No, I don't take my children to the woodshed and beat the heck out of them....but I get the focus of the whole post.

[LauraGB]

But the use of the term "woodshed" is really just a euphemism for discipline/aka spanking. We never had a woodshed, but boy, I sure understood what the author meant. And, no, I don't spank my own kids. I do haul them out (it seems like it anyway) to weed, to work, to go to reunions, etc, and they are expected to be respectful and watch their language or there are consequences. I think the author was just getting at that aspect of things because it would seem so many kids just don't have parents helping them along to be productive, considerate and respectful adults.

 

And I said I smiled in my earlier post, but I sure wasn't sitting back thinking of "the good ol' days" :lol:. Just glad they're over.

 

ETA - I have repeatedly offered spankings and soap, but I never had any takers ;)

Edited June 7, 2011 by LauraGB

[sassyscrapperinid]

Sorry, but I'm with the "let's not romanticize washing the mouth out with soap" crowd.

 

It is interesting to me that I hear odes - this is not the first - to the "good ole days" when kids where 'drug by the ears, drug to the woodshed, drug to the sink for the soap treatment' as the answer to "kids today", and we completely ignore the fact that, in the "good ole days" parents & extended families spent A LOT more time together (and I'm glad to see this ode mention that fact)....perhaps that has a lot more to do with the better-behaved-children-of-yesteryear than the soap-in-the-mouth?

 

And, for the record, I am not anti-spanking. I don't use it, but I have friends who have/do (who are of a much calmer temperment than I), who are not abusive.

 

Also for the record, I still have memories of having my mouth washed out with soap, and, yes, it did stop me from saying bad words in front of my parents. But you would NOT believe the words I thought about them inside of my head....for a long, long time.

 

I dunno- I spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 19 years so far with my kids and they still need to be drugged every now and then.

[kalanamak]

 

I understand that there are ways to get compliance without constant spankings. I'm just wondering what it looks like in your home.

 

I would not make a child go to church, but then, I don't go myself. I consider religion VERY private and something that belongs to that person only.

 

I don't drag. I talk. I respect my child enough to tell him we need to do X Y and Z, and if I get whines, I remind him of how, when faced with the inevitable, having a cheery attitude makes it go by much faster. I then ignore any last rumblings. If they keep on, I use the methods in Raising a Thinking Child. I have trained him about my "NOW" voice. Emergencies, very pressed for time things. He knows that he will get a full explanation AFTER the "now" phase is over.

 

Although I don't get it from him much, if there were mouthiness, etc, I turn to him with one finger raised (the "pay attention please" look), and give him a gimlet eye. If that does not work I ask him if he needs to go to his room until he is fit for society. He hates this, and hasn't "needed to" in 2 years.

 

Having standards the kid buys into is not the same as soaping and whopping a child into acting straight when there is something punitive hanging over his head. I recall an FFA state conference in my hometown. These were rural midwestern kids in late 60s (before MJ had hit Emporia, e.g.). I mean old-fashioned. There was a mass urination off the fire escape onto a crowd of adults below. A crude example, but to me it is what can happen if the only reason a child behaves is because there'll be "trouble" if they don't.

[Lady Florida.]

Having standards the kid buys into is not the same as soaping and whopping a child into acting straight when there is something punitive hanging over his head.

 

Yes. And I think that's all those of us who disagree with the post (not the poster, but the original author) are saying.

[LibraryLover]

Yes. And I think that's all those of us who disagree with the post (not the poster, but the original author) are saying.

 

 

Yes. That's all. Yes. :)

[sassyscrapperinid]

I do think people tend to romantisize the past. The good old days were't really *that* good. A lot kids, then, as now, falter, and whether they were smacked around in the woodshed is not going to change a learning disability any more than going to church is going to keep a person on the straight and narrow.

 

I think I agree with this... my concern is the number of children labeled with a learning disability when at times the child just had no structure or discipline to begin with. Not to say there arent children with learning disabilities, I just think that children are too easily labeled that sometimes when some kids just need more attention and structure than others.

[Parrothead]

I would not make a child go to church, but then, I don't go myself. I consider religion VERY private and something that belongs to that person only.

 

I don't drag. I talk. I respect my child enough to tell him we need to do X Y and Z, and if I get whines, I remind him of how, when faced with the inevitable, having a cheery attitude makes it go by much faster. I then ignore any last rumblings. If they keep on, I use the methods in Raising a Thinking Child. I have trained him about my "NOW" voice. Emergencies, very pressed for time things. He knows that he will get a full explanation AFTER the "now" phase is over.

 

Although I don't get it from him much, if there were mouthiness, etc, I turn to him with one finger raised (the "pay attention please" look), and give him a gimlet eye. If that does not work I ask him if he needs to go to his room until he is fit for society. He hates this, and hasn't "needed to" in 2 years.

 

Having standards the kid buys into is not the same as soaping and whopping a child into acting straight when there is something punitive hanging over his head. I recall an FFA state conference in my hometown. These were rural midwestern kids in late 60s (before MJ had hit Emporia, e.g.). I mean old-fashioned. There was a mass urination off the fire escape onto a crowd of adults below. A crude example, but to me it is what can happen if the only reason a child behaves is because there'll be "trouble" if they don't.

Thanks.

 

I suppose the reason I'm asking is because it comes across (not specifically you K) that if kiddo doesn't want to go to church, doctor, help out at community service, then it is okay and I respect my child's wishes to the extent that he/she does what he/she pleases. Without additional explanation (and possibly tone) it "sounds" like kiddo wants to cuss out mom and dad, that is allowed in the name of respecting the child.

 

Between that and my own observations of kids that are mouthy, rude, not expected to do anything to contribute to the household I just wondered how other parents parent.

 

I don't like either extreme although I'm more to the conservative end of it. I expect first time obedience, but first time obedience was modeled from day one (well, from the nine month mark since that is when dd became mobile). I've never had to beat dd to get the behavior I expect. But I've felt it necessary to smack a diaper butt a time or two.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Neither dh nor I have have spanked, pinched or other wise physically hurt our children. We've never taken then to the woodshed. Yet they are still respectful, decent people.

 

My kids do lots of chores (they take turns cleaning the bathroom, for instance. I haven't cleaned a bathroom or washed a bathroom floor in years), they take care of animals, they mow, they help me plant, my oldest kids grocery shop, they cook, I've come home to a sparking kitchen after a day away, my kids get good grades, they are rsepectful and even my youngest has come along to funerals with me because as she has said, "We go to comfort the living, and out of respect for the dead". They do this beause it's what our family does: we help each other. It's too much for any one person. It's right and loving to attend your sister's art show, it's right to attend your sister's ballet performance or your brothers concerts and plays. We are a team.

 

We do have a family culture...and I can only describe that as mutual respect. We've never had issues with law, we've never had issues with alcohol or drugs.

 

I think some of this is luck, personality, no significant cognitive glitches etc. But I also think our famiily has always understaood that little children thrive on care, respect and apporproate boundaries which are not shame-or punishment based. We all make mistakes, and we learn from those mistakes. Have I taken away car privilleges? Screen time? Held a child who was thrashing about in a over-stimulated tantrum? Yes.

 

Our of our favorite authors, who inspired some of our parenting ideals and language way back when , is Eda Leshan who wrote "When Your Child Drives You Crazy". It's really for parents of little children, but it set a particular tone in our home from the begininng.

 

You asked, CHuckie, and it's hard to write this without sounding smug. I don't want it to seem that we've haven't had good rows here at times. We have. I know a lot of luck has been involved, I know the particular dynamics of my kids personalties have meshed. How much is dh and me? How much is simple nature? Nurture? It's hard to say, of course, so I am simply trying to report/answer your question in the most honest way I can.

 

I do have a challeging child (who was also born with various birth defects, some physical, some cognitive). I do have a child who joined our home (as an infant) through adoption. We have been very, very lucky, exspecially given all the variables.

 

But hitting, shaming, impossible expectations for littles...never a part of our family culture.

 

I think thats awesome too!! :001_smile:

[Happy2BaMom]

What do you do or say to your children to get results? Or do you not expect anything from them?

 

Yes, they we make them go to church. We picked a church partly based on which one they liked (yes, we allowed them input). On days they don't want to go, we just say firmly that we go as a family and please get in the car. Once or twice we've had to state that TV time (screen time is a privilege in our house) may be withheld if they didn't go, but it has hardly every been an issue. The same holds true for all other meetings / appointments. No we do not tolerate bad behavior, mouthiness, etc. I guess I'm a little confused by the gentle assumption that, if we're not using soap and the woodshed, that we either don't expect anything or that we tolerate a lot. Neither is true. And yes, they do several paid and unpaid chores a day. They have a daily chart they follow, and leisure time is held off until the chores are done.

 

I've used several books - Love & Logic (a little cloying and overdone, but still effective), Parent Talk, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen.... and Setting Limits with Your Strong willed Child a lot.

 

I try to have fun with them and teach them...constantly...what I'm thinking, how their behavior comes across to other people, what kind of people do they want to be when they grow up, how do they feel/think when another child acts out inappropriately toward them or others. We've used time outs and removal of privileges and occasionally (when I snap, LOL) mom yelling. We just have an expectation that they need to work before play, that everyone helps each other out, and I try to make sure they get enough sleep and food and outside play and positive attention. That all helps A LOT.

 

I don't think people who are more conservative in their discipline orientation are wrong, bad or evil (well, the Pearls may be an exception, but let's not go there, LOL), just different. But I do think there are other methods that can be just as effective without the negative impact on parent/child relationships, if that makes sense.

 

And, another one for the record - I do understand there was a larger point to the article. I just have seen things like this several times and they all tend to have a flavor of "when we just smacked kids things were better". Not a "when families where whole and extended and one parent was always home and health care was cheap and jobs could be found and TV did not consist of 200 channels of smut and constant teen misbehavior" etc etc". There's a lot more to the disintegration of childhood than the woodshed.

 

Good Lord, I need to go have a Mike's, or perhaps several of them. Sorry, didn't mean to emotionally unload like that. Perhaps my hormones are out of whack.

[Gailmegan]

I suppose the reason I'm asking is because it comes across (not specifically you K) that if kiddo doesn't want to go to church, doctor, help out at community service, then it is okay and I respect my child's wishes to the extent that he/she does what he/she pleases. Without additional explanation (and possibly tone) it "sounds" like kiddo wants to cuss out mom and dad, that is allowed in the name of respecting the child.

 

 

Hmmm.... I didn't get that impression from any of PP who didn't like the quote in the OP. I guess I just assumed they all felt the same way I did. I don't think anyone here is promoting permissive parenting. The negative reaction is to the implication that physical force or corporal punishment is necessary or even helpful.

 

To answer your earlier question: Do I make my children go to church? To I physically force them to go? No. When they whine and say they want to stay home and ride bikes, I tell them honestly that some Sundays I feel that way too, but that God wants us to show our love by worshiping Him with other believers and that Sundays are special for that purpose, so we are going as a family. And my kids get in the car. We have a bond of love and trust, and we listen to each other. Dh and I are authority figures, who do need to be obeyed, but we do everything with respect to their person and understanding of how they feel.

 

Have their been times when I've lost my cool and yelled? Or grabbed an arm to remove an older sibling who was hurting a younger sibling? Sure. Part of my job is to protect my children (including from each other) and sometimes I do get frustrated and run out of patience. But in general modeling correct behavior first, teaching correct behavior second and helping my child make the right choice third, with logical (related) consequences as a last resort usually does the trick just fine.

[elegantlion]

I would not make a child go to church, but then, I don't go myself. I consider religion VERY private and something that belongs to that person only.

 

I don't drag. I talk. I respect my child enough to tell him we need to do X Y and Z, and if I get whines, I remind him of how, when faced with the inevitable, having a cheery attitude makes it go by much faster. I then ignore any last rumblings. If they keep on, I use the methods in Raising a Thinking Child. I have trained him about my "NOW" voice. Emergencies, very pressed for time things. He knows that he will get a full explanation AFTER the "now" phase is over.

 

Although I don't get it from him much, if there were mouthiness, etc, I turn to him with one finger raised (the "pay attention please" look), and give him a gimlet eye. If that does not work I ask him if he needs to go to his room until he is fit for society. He hates this, and hasn't "needed to" in 2 years.

 

Having standards the kid buys into is not the same as soaping and whopping a child into acting straight when there is something punitive hanging over his head. I recall an FFA state conference in my hometown. These were rural midwestern kids in late 60s (before MJ had hit Emporia, e.g.). I mean old-fashioned. There was a mass urination off the fire escape onto a crowd of adults below. A crude example, but to me it is what can happen if the only reason a child behaves is because there'll be "trouble" if they don't.

 

I like this answer. Maybe it's the midwestern evil eye, but my ds is pretty easy.

 

Thanks.

 

I suppose the reason I'm asking is because it comes across (not specifically you K) that if kiddo doesn't want to go to church, doctor, help out at community service, then it is okay and I respect my child's wishes to the extent that he/she does what he/she pleases. Without additional explanation (and possibly tone) it "sounds" like kiddo wants to cuss out mom and dad, that is allowed in the name of respecting the child.

 

Between that and my own observations of kids that are mouthy, rude, not expected to do anything to contribute to the household I just wondered how other parents parent.

 

I don't like either extreme although I'm more to the conservative end of it. I expect first time obedience, but first time obedience was modeled from day one (well, from the nine month mark since that is when dd became mobile). I've never had to beat dd to get the behavior I expect. But I've felt it necessary to smack a diaper butt a time or two.

 

We do a lot of talking in our family. We live our emotions out loud. As a kid my dad was somewhat unapproachable about emotional stuff. He's a great giving person, but he didn't know how to be a dad without being gruff. I grew up very intimidated by my father. It's only as an adult that our relationship has changed. HE made the effort to change. My mom had to be the go between on some many issues because of that.

 

I do think we've been blessed with a great kid. He's smart and he knows we'll listen. Does he have to do things he doesn't like? Yes. Last time he was seriously disciplined for behavior was about two years ago though. We've had a lot of life chaos, and often I remind myself that's he's 13, this IS his childhood and he should get some say in it.

 

Church? I don't want to go. We're not in church right now and may not be. Family reunions? Yes. He's at work with dh right now. He'd rather be playing Xbox or playing Minecraft, but he's at work. He knows his dad values his time with him.

 

Dh and I are very stubborn, quick-to-anger people. Somehow we've relaxed over the years and are raising a fairly laid back kid. He's very much a "why" kind of person. If we can help him understand our reasoning for doing something, he'll do it. It's not always a nice sit down kind of chat. Sometimes it's the "Well you eat here, so you can help out with dinner" phrase. He balked a little about laundry recently. I reminded him that my mother would do things FOR me instead of TEACH me. I want him to learn how for himself. He seemed content with the answer.

 

He's not perfect, he's a born negotiator. Keeps me up on my critical thinking and logic skills. :lol:

[clarkacademy]

Thumbs down.

 

Cutesy stories that romaticize getting "drug to the woodshed" make me sick.

 

Getting "drug to the woodshed" over a bad report card? Great advice! Awesome! Let's hit kids who get bad grades! LOOOOOOVE.

 

Not.

 

 

Your right we should hug them all and never show them when they have done wrong.

[Lady Florida.]

I think I agree with this... my concern is the number of children labeled with a learning disability when at times the child just had no structure or discipline to begin with

 

On the other end of the spectrum there were children who were not diagnosed with a learning disability or ADHD who were thought to be just lazy or "bad". The solution was to discipline them even harsher, which is the worst thing you can do for those kinds of kids. I do wish we could find the spot between under and over diagnosed where all those who need help are recognized, and those who don't really have a disability aren't thrown in there just because the parents or teachers are at the end of their ropes.

[Parrothead]

My primary reaction to this is negative... on a number of levels.

 

It is interesting that, without necessarily disagreeing on any of the underlying principles, we can have such polarized reactions to the presentation.

 

 

I'm now wondering if it is about presentation. Maybe it is the wording used. I freely admit I drag my child to the market. But to me that does not mean I've got her by the arm literally dragging her into the store. I've dragged her to the the mall too. (Seems shopping is something dd really doesn't like to do much yet.) Again, not literally by the arm or nape or ear.

 

I've also "dragged my child to the woodshed." But that doesn't mean I've literally taken her outside and beaten her about the backside. I could use "taking my child to the woodshed" interchangeably with "taking her to task"

 

Everyone has different styles. I think those who took the story literally and were appalled stepped the toes of those who prefer a more conservative parenting style. Not that it was done out of malice or intentionally. Those who prefer a more conservative parenting style then stepped back thinking they were being judged as harsh.

 

I really do not think there is anyone here actually taking their children out to the woodshed and beating them with a switch. Hopefully no one else does either.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Parrothead

[sassyscrapperinid]

'cause I don't see folks, kids or otherwise as needing to be 'drug' anywhere

 

so what about murderers and such?? they shouldn't be "drug" off to jail when they commit their crimes?? not trying to be snotty, I am wondering. :confused:

[Parrothead]

On the other end of the spectrum there were children who were not diagnosed with a learning disability or ADHD who were thought to be just lazy or "bad". The solution was to discipline them even harsher, which is the worst thing you can do for those kinds of kids. I do wish we could find the spot between under and over diagnosed where all those who need help are recognized, and those who don't really have a disability aren't thrown in there just because the parents or teachers are at the end of their ropes.

In an ideal world that would be great. Unfortunately we don't have an ideal world. But I do agree with you that there needs to be a standard of some sort so those who are truly in need of assistance aren't overly disciplined and get the assistance they need. I also think there needs to be something in place to protect the kids who are just being kids from being medicated unnecessarily.

 

What those somethings are I have no idea.

[sassyscrapperinid]

I do wish we could find the spot between under and over diagnosed where all those who need help are recognized, and those who don't really have a disability aren't thrown in there just because the parents or teachers are at the end of their ropes.

 

:iagree:

[Lady Florida.]

He'd rather be playing...Minecraft

 

Imagine that. A 13 year old boy who'd rather be playing Minecraft. I have one of those. ;)

 

 

It's not always a nice sit down kind of chat. Sometimes it's the "Well you eat here, so you can help out with dinner" phrase. He balked a little about laundry recently. I reminded him that my mother would do things FOR me instead of TEACH me. I want him to learn how for himself. He seemed content with the answer.

Yes. Just because we don't drag him to the woodshed doesn't mean everything is all sunshine and roses. Sometimes he whines and asks why he has to be the one to do whatever it is. I tell him it's because he's part of our family, and our family works together and we all have responsibilities. That usually stops further whining because he doesn't have a whiny answer for that.

 

I've also told him that I'm trying to teach him things now so he doesn't have to learn them as an adult. I reminded him what Nonna's (my mother) house used to look like - clean but totally cluttered. (I think she probably had undiagnosed ADD). I told him she never taught me how to keep a home clutter free and that I had to learn as an adult, and that I don't want him to be in that position. He seems to get that, even though he doesn't like to pick up after himself, he knows why it needs to be done.

 

On more serious matters of behavior, we've always talked about it. The discussion has always been age appropriate and has changed as he gets older. But the bottom line on all of our talks has always been about what's right, what's expected. We've also always done a version of "how would you feel if?".

[sassyscrapperinid]

I don't believe that incarceration is going to teach them better values or make them better citizens.

 

I don't believe that human beings have an intrinsic need to be 'dragged' in order to grow and develop morally or spiritually.

 

I think I see what your saying but at the same time, when someone kills someone they should be incarcerated to protect the public and there has to be a consequence. They may or may not learn anything from it but you cant just turn your head and hope the problem goes away either.

...... I didnt read the article- sorry.

[Impish]

I don't believe that incarceration is going to teach them better values or make them better citizens.

 

 

Incarceration tends to have more to do with protecting society than rehab. Its unfortunate, but reality is, sometimes protecting the innocent is the only thing that can be done.

[Scrub Jay]

Strangely I had a gentle loving mother AND have never done meth.

 

Yes, same here. And I knew several kids who would be treated as above in the poem who became major addicts.

 

Glad my childhood wasn't that poem.

[kalanamak]

Your right we should hug them all and never show them when they have done wrong.

 

 

:lol: Now, that is funny!

[sassyscrapperinid]

I'm sorry...

 

I was only responding to the idea of prison in the context of the article talking about a kid being dragged to church, to the woodshed, to do chores and how that made him a better person.

 

I wasn't trying to make a larger statement about how society deals with crime.

 

oh, ok. :001_smile:

[mom2denj]

That's awesome!

[clarkacademy]

Imagine that. A 13 year old boy who'd rather be playing Minecraft. I have one of those. ;)

 

 

Yes. Just because we don't drag him to the woodshed doesn't mean everything is all sunshine and roses. Sometimes he whines and asks why he has to be the one to do whatever it is. I tell him it's because he's part of our family, and our family works together and we all have responsibilities. That usually stops further whining because he doesn't have a whiny answer for that.

 

I've also told him that I'm trying to teach him things now so he doesn't have to learn them as an adult. I reminded him what Nonna's (my mother) house used to look like - clean but totally cluttered. (I think she probably had undiagnosed ADD). I told him she never taught me how to keep a home clutter free and that I had to learn as an adult, and that I don't want him to be in that position. He seems to get that, even though he doesn't like to pick up after himself, he knows why it needs to be done.

 

On more serious matters of behavior, we've always talked about it. The discussion has always been age appropriate and has changed as he gets older. But the bottom line on all of our talks has always been about what's right, what's expected. We've also always done a version of "how would you feel if?".

 

WOW, you judged your parent to your child?? How and why should your child ever respect you? What nerve that would take to insult your own parent to your child. I am in shock. This thing was posted by me and it was as a light hearted joke as the way people once disciplined their kids but it has become this big debate.

 

The issue at hand is there are way more behavioral issues today than say in the 50's. WAY MORE. Anyone who disputes that is living under a rock. There were way less kids on drugs. Children had more respect. I could go on and on and there is no one who can say differntly.

 

ADHD is so common to say when a kid don't behave a parent can give a pill and say they tried etc. My kids get spanked they would never think I abused them. There was a point here that everyone is missing.

[clarkacademy]

In contrast with the suggested outcome of spanking, consider Myron Bennet’s formula for raising a juvenile delinquent:

1. Begin with infancy to give the child everything he wants. In this way, he’ll grow up to believe the world owes him a living.

2. When he picks up bad words – just laugh – he’ll think it’s cute.

3. Never give him spiritual training –wait until he’s 21 and let him “decide for himself.â€

4. Avoid the use of the word “wrong†–or he

may develop a guilt complex. This will condition him to believe later when he is arrested for stealing a car that society is against him and he is being persecuted.

5. Pick up everything he leaves around – books, shoes, and clothing. Do everything for him so that he will be experienced in throwing responsibility onto others.

6. Let him read any printed material he can get. Be careful that the silverware and drinking glasses are sterilized, but let his mind feast on garbage.

7. Quarrel frequently in the presence of your children and this way they will not be too shocked when your home is broken up later.

8. Give your child all the spending money he wants, never let him earn his own. Why should he have things as tough as you had them?

9. Satisfy his every craving for food, drink and comfort – see that his every sensual desire is gratified – denial may lead to harmful frustration.

10. Take his part against neighbors, teachers, and policemen. They are all prejudiced against your child.

11. When he gets into trouble apologize by saying, “I could never do anything with him.â€

Finally, prepare for a life of grief – you’re definitely going to have one.

 

[KristinaBreece]

In contrast with the suggested outcome of spanking, consider Myron Bennet’s formula for raising a juvenile delinquent:

1. Begin with infancy to give the child everything he wants. In this way, he’ll grow up to believe the world owes him a living.

2. When he picks up bad words – just laugh – he’ll think it’s cute.

3. Never give him spiritual training –wait until he’s 21 and let him “decide for himself.â€

4. Avoid the use of the word “wrong†–or he

may develop a guilt complex. This will condition him to believe later when he is arrested for stealing a car that society is against him and he is being persecuted.

5. Pick up everything he leaves around – books, shoes, and clothing. Do everything for him so that he will be experienced in throwing responsibility onto others.

6. Let him read any printed material he can get. Be careful that the silverware and drinking glasses are sterilized, but let his mind feast on garbage.

7. Quarrel frequently in the presence of your children and this way they will not be too shocked when your home is broken up later.

8. Give your child all the spending money he wants, never let him earn his own. Why should he have things as tough as you had them?

9. Satisfy his every craving for food, drink and comfort – see that his every sensual desire is gratified – denial may lead to harmful frustration.

10. Take his part against neighbors, teachers, and policemen. They are all prejudiced against your child.

11. When he gets into trouble apologize by saying, “I could never do anything with him.â€

Finally, prepare for a life of grief – you’re definitely going to have one.

 

 

I firmly believe that this is being made to look overly simplistic. There are obviously more than 2 ways to parent children, and results may vary depending on more factors than we could possibly cover in this thread.

[Nakia]

WOW, you judged your parent to your child?? How and why should your child ever respect you? What nerve that would take to insult your own parent to your child. I am in shock. This thing was posted by me and it was as a light hearted joke as the way people once disciplined their kids but it has become this big debate.

 

The issue at hand is there are way more behavioral issues today than say in the 50's. WAY MORE. Anyone who disputes that is living under a rock. There were way less kids on drugs. Children had more respect. I could go on and on and there is no one who can say differntly.

 

ADHD is so common to say when a kid don't behave a parent can give a pill and say they tried etc. My kids get spanked they would never think I abused them. There was a point here that everyone is missing.

 

It doesn't really sound like floridamom is judging her parent. She is stating a fact. My girls know a heck of a lot about what went on in my home growing up because I've told them. I don't want our relationship to be like my relationship with my mother.

 

For example, going on floridamom's cleaning example, my mother kept (and still keeps) an immaculately clean home. We were never allowed to make a mess. We were never allowed to leave the house until it was spotless. I never remember my mother reading a book to me or asking me how my day was. I do remember her screaming at us if we tracked one speck of dirt in the house, and I remember her bringing a trash bag into my room and throwing away things that were important to me because my room wasn't as neat as she expected it to be. One day, my middle dd asked me why our home isn't as clean as Nannie's house. I told them it's because I would rather spend time cooking and baking and reading and playing with them than cleaning. I told them how it was at my house growing up (to a degree). I wasn't disrespectful of my mother, just factual. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[clarkacademy]

I firmly believe that this is being made to look overly simplistic. There are obviously more than 2 ways to parent children, and results may vary depending on more factors than we could possibly cover in this thread.

 

Yes I agree. But odds are those who do not discipline will get bad results. I also wonder how those live according to the bible don't believe spanking is mmoral? It is talked about in many of the verses. A child who is not held accountable will doubtfully grow into an adult who is.

[Lady Florida.]

WOW, you judged your parent to your child?? How and why should your child ever respect you? What nerve that would take to insult your own parent to your child. I am in shock.

 

Wow, no I didn't insult my parent. I stated the obvious. I pointed out that I'm doing for him what I wished she had done (or had been able to do) for me. We are open and honest in our family and we don't pretend we can't learn from other family members' shortcomings. What nerve it takes to assume you know our family dynamic.

 

 

ADHD is so common to say when a kid don't behave a parent can give a pill and say they tried etc. My kids get spanked they would never think I abused them. There was a point here that everyone is missing.

This type of statement is often made by people who truly don't understand and haven't experienced having a loved one with ADHD.

[LauraGB]

WOW, you judged your parent to your child?? How and why should your child ever respect you? What nerve that would take to insult your own parent to your child. I am in shock.

 

I've made statements like that to my kids about my parents. They weren't disrespectful, but rather factual. And we are okay with talking about our own shortcomings here, too. If you rant and rave saying things like, "My stupid, useless mother never taught me darn thing about...." well, then you've got some issues. But based on how she "discussed" a cause and effect, a characteristic, with her kid, I don't see it being a reason for the child to disrespect her. :confused:

[FairProspects]

This type of statement is often made by people who truly don't understand and haven't experienced having a loved one with ADHD.

 

:iagree:

[sassyscrapperinid]

This type of statement is often made by people who truly don't understand and haven't experienced having a loved one with ADHD.

 

Call me lazy if you want to, but please educate me about ADHD. What are typical behaviors? Thanks.

[elegantlion]

But discipline takes many forms. ...and, to be effective, should match the values, priorities, and characters of the families involved.

 

An approach to discipline that works well for your family and your children, could be a disaster for me a mine... and vice versa!

 

 

 

 

:iagree: Absolutely.

 

Before I became pregnant, dh and I prayed for wisdom. I think ds is part of God's answer to that prayer. Not because being a parent has made me wise, but because I learn from my ds. Every character flaw I have I have seen mirrored in his response to whatever it was. I watch how he responds and reacts to me. I've seen my flawed self hurt him (not physically, but in other ways). I've apologized. He is more open to correction because I have modeled that behavior in my self.

 

I don't feel superior to my child simply because I am the adult. I am his mentor, his leader, but I am not an authoritarian figure that lords punishment over him. I am part of God's plan for his life, I am partly his potter. I am, along with my dh, responsible for shaping the way he responds to this world. I prefer to focus on the love and goodness, not the you-do-this-or-else mentality. I believe in correction and guidance, not punishment.

[justamouse]

It doesn't really sound like floridamom is judging her parent. She is stating a fact. My girls know a heck of a lot about what went on in my home growing up because I've told them. I don't want our relationship to be like my relationship with my mother.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm not disrespectful but my kids absolutely know the reality of living with my parents and my effort to change the way I was parented. I don't want my relationships with them to be anything like mine was with my mom.

 

I think that whole list is a gross, skewed oversimplification.

 

And the sentence about ADHD? :glare:

[kalanamak]

Wow, no I didn't insult my parent. I stated the obvious. I pointed out that I'm doing for him what I wished she had done (or had been able to do) for me. We are open and honest in our family and we don't pretend we can't learn from other family members' shortcomings.

 

:iagree: One can love someone and STILL see their faults. One can be honest about someone being sick or off the deep end without undermining the concept of respect in general. These, actually, are goals of mine. Call a spade a spade. One doesn't have to sneer while being honest.

 

Some people do take it that way. One of hubby's "weaknesses" kiddo and I discuss (other to cope with it and to learn from it) is that *any complaint* is over-reacted to and taken as an attack. Would I pretend that that is a desirable way to grow up? I would be doing kiddo and his future family a disservice.

 

Or, to paraphrase, we don't live long enough to make all the mistakes, and a wise man learns from the mistakes of other.

[clarkacademy]

This type of statement is often made by people who truly don't understand and haven't experienced having a loved one with ADHD.

 

I have 2 diagnosed Thanks!! So that is their exuse right? He can't behave because he has ADHD. It has been proven many many times this is the most misdiagnosed defect out there. ADHD will not exuse a child in adulthood why should it exuse him in childhood?

 

They should work harder to overcome it, as a parent that is our job. I don't say gee I am sorry my son hit yours he is autistic with ADHD tendencies. I don't say I am sorry my other son broke your window he is ADHD. I apologize for my child and discipline him or them accordingly.

 

I am sure kids had ADHD back in the day they were still taught to behave. I have been diagnosed with adult ADD and still behaved as a child. Why? Because I didn't want to get into trouble. I didn't want my but spanked or my toys taken.

 

I didn't want my mom dissapointed in me. I didn't want my dad disapointed. They didn't give me a hug when I got a bad grade. They spanked me sent me to my room and I was forbidden to play outside till the next report card. The next one as well as every one after was straight A's.

 

That was a harsh punishment compared to today from what I read. They got their point across and never had another bad grade to punish me for again. It also taught me how to work hard in school and be proud of myself. I was proud of every Deans list I made in college too.

[Lady Florida.]

Call me lazy if you want to, but please educate me about ADHD. What are typical behaviors? Thanks.

 

I have to get dinner on the table and get ds off to agility class, but will answer your question a bit later if no one else does.

[albeto]

For those how are appalled by the story I have questions simply out of curiosity.

 

I found the poem appalling, personally, for so many reasons but mostly ignorant and sophomoric.

 

Do you make your children go to church (or whatever your family does for spiritual needs) when they don't want to go?

 

Certainly not. Nor do I make them check their horoscopes every morning or appease the household idols or rub a rabbit's foot for good luck.

 

Do you make your children go places they need to be (family reunions' date=' doctor's office, siblings recitals) even though they don't want to go?[/quote']

 

Family reunions aren't necessary. Doctor's offices aren't scary

 

Do you allow disrespectful behavior and words from your child?

 

I allow and encourage sophisticated communication from my kids which means swear words are usually not as effective as cohesive sentences. I've come to the conclusion that "disrespectful" only means "doesn't support me."

 

If your child blatantly disobeys are their sever consequences?

 

My children aren't pets, so no.

 

Do you allow mouthiness?

 

If by "mouthiness" you mean "disagree passionately with me," yes, yes I do. One day they'll need to stand on their own and get their own needs met and they'll benefit from having the social skills to communicate those needs and desires.

 

Do you make your kids do chores? What if they don't want to?

 

No. I don't make my husband do chores or my mother or mother in law when they visit either. Interestingly, my kids, husband, mother and mother in law are all happy to contribute when needed.

 

Do you make your kids do some kind of community service or give back to the community in some way? Volunteer at the local soup kitchen or some such? What if they don't want to?

 

Nnnope. I don't stop them from handing money or a loaf of bread and some sliced meat to the guy sitting outside the grocery store with a sign on his lap either.

 

What do you do or say to your children to get results? Or do you not expect anything from them?

 

My kids aren't pets and I expect a great deal from them. I expect them to be mindful of what's going on around them and how they're contributing to the environment, whether that's with friends, family or community. I expect them to pay attention to detail and analyze with an objective lens. I expect them to stand up for themselves and not feel victimized and not treat anyone else in a way they wouldn't care to be treated themselves. I expect them to be considerate and compassionate and intelligent and creative and I'll be darned if they aren't rising to the expectations.

 

I understand that there are ways to get compliance without constant spankings. I'm just wondering what it looks like in your home.

 

Very respectful. And quite fun.

[albeto]

I think the story was great and if you focus too much on the specifics you are completely missing the point. The point is.... the child was "drug to church" - he was raised with a values system. There are things that are right and wrong. He was "drug to the woodshed".... there are consequences and not excuses for bad behavior. The whole bad grades thing...it's not that the kid had a learning disability and parents who did not understand. The point is... laziness and disrespect are not acceptable. In years past kids were taught to work hard and not play the victim. The kid in the story was raised that you help others who are in need of help without asking for anything in return because that's the right thing to do.

 

This story celebrates value systems and consequences taught by oppression, emotional and physical. There are other ways to instill values than by fear and children naturally understand consequences because one's entire experience is built upon the concept of cause and effect. The values instilled by forcing one to comply to an adult's preferences includes the value of Might Makes Right. Toddlers learn how to put one foot out in front to avoid falling over. Teens learn how to suppress a temper tantrum in front of people they respect (usually other teens). It's not rocket science, most humans can't help but to learn these things.

Edited June 7, 2011 by albeto

[Lady Florida.]

Call me lazy if you want to, but please educate me about ADHD. What are typical behaviors? Thanks.

 

 

Okay, dh offered to take ds to agility and I get to stay home for a change. Yay!

 

This is s summary of the symptoms used to diagnose ADHD. As with many brain disorders, there's no blood test, skin test, x-ray, etc. It must be done by objective checklists. That doesn't mean it isn't real.

http://www.chrisdendy.com/gotadhd.htm

 

 

 

Executive function is something people with ADHD have trouble with. It definitely can affect school work.

http://www.chrisdendy.com/executive.htm

 

One of the biggest issues with people who have impulsiveness as part of their ADHD is living with hindsight. Often a child impulsively does something, then can tell you afterwards why what he did was wrong. This leads people to think, "See, he knew it was wrong but did it anyway". In fact, it's a dopamine and norepinephrine issue. They don't have what it takes to stop and think before acting. Dopamine is also the "feel good" brain chemical. Lack of dopamine is what leads many people to risk taking behaviors or substance abuse. Those behaviors help release dopamine.

 

Here is something else from the same website I linked above. It's about recognizing that the behaviors are part of the invisible disability, and not just acting out or being "bad". The saddest part IMO is that kids are punished for having a medical condition. The rest of this particular article is here.

 

 

8) "Keep a disability perspective" is excellent advice given by Dr. Russell Barkley! For some of these children ADHD is truly a disability. I frequently have to remind myself of these words of wisdom. The invisible nature of ADHD as a disability makes it so easy to assume that the child could do the task if he would just try. A child with diabetes would not be blamed or punished for his inability to regulate blood sugar levels. Similarly, children with ADHD can't regulate the level of their neurotransmitters and should not just be punished for their "ADHD behaviors".

9) Remember that "ADHD behaviors" are part of the condition; not malicious misbehavior! Because of their four to six year developmental lag, they may act less mature and assume less responsibility. Because they are impulsive, they don't always think of the consequences before they act or speak. Because they are forgetful and disorganized, they may forget chores or assignments, lose things or have a bedroom that is a wreck. Because of their impaired sense of time, they are going to be late. Because of their sleep disturbances, they have trouble falling asleep or may be extremely difficult to wake up. Because they don't learn from punishment and reward as easily as other children, they will be more difficult to discipline and may repeat misbehavior.

 

Sorry. I know this is way off topic from the OP, but I was just trying to answer sassyscrapperinid's questions. This subject is close to my heart, and I tend to get on my soapbox over it.

[Parrothead]

I found the poem appalling, personally, for so many reasons but mostly ignorant and sophomoric.

 

 

 

Certainly not. Nor do I make them check their horoscopes every morning or appease the household idols or rub a rabbit's foot for good luck.

 

 

 

Family reunions aren't necessary. Doctor's offices aren't scary

 

My point in asking the questions is do you (not you specifically) make your children do things they don't want to do.

 

If you tell your child to feed the dog, is your child allowed to walk away saying "no" or do you as a parent make the child feed the dog or suffer the consequences for not complying.

 

I allow and encourage sophisticated communication from my kids which means swear words are usually not as effective as cohesive sentences. I've come to the conclusion that "disrespectful" only means "doesn't support me."

Apparently in your world mouthiness means something totally different than in mine.

 

 

My children aren't pets, so no.

How do they learn that life is about consequences if they don't experience consequences at home.

 

 

If by "mouthiness" you mean "disagree passionately with me," yes, yes I do. One day they'll need to stand on their own and get their own needs met and they'll benefit from having the social skills to communicate those needs and desires.

 

By mouthiness I'm talking about telling mom something along the lines of she is a fat cow who should go feed the dog herself. If you call that disagreeing passionately, so be it. I call it being rude and mouthy.

 

 

No. I don't make my husband do chores or my mother or mother in law when they visit either. Interestingly, my kids, husband, mother and mother in law are all happy to contribute when needed.

 

 

 

Nnnope. I don't stop them from handing money or a loaf of bread and some sliced meat to the guy sitting outside the grocery store with a sign on his lap either.

 

 

 

My kids aren't pets and I expect a great deal from them. I expect them to be mindful of what's going on around them and how they're contributing to the environment, whether that's with friends, family or community. I expect them to pay attention to detail and analyze with an objective lens. I expect them to stand up for themselves and not feel victimized and not treat anyone else in a way they wouldn't care to be treated themselves. I expect them to be considerate and compassionate and intelligent and creative and I'll be darned if they aren't rising to the expectations.

 

 

 

Very respectful. And quite fun.

 

I don't get why you keep referring to your children not being pets. I don't think anyone here has equated children to pets.

 

I'm trying not to take your reply personally since I didn't mean for my questions to be a personal attack on anyone. But I get the impression you are turning it into something personal. Maybe not, since it is difficult to judge tone.

[Parrothead]

This has never been an issue.

 

If it were, it would depend on the age of the child and the reasons.

 

 

 

 

We have a family expectation that we are there for each other - for family gatherings and special occasions.

 

I can't imagine a child having an issue with going to the doctor. ...again, how we responded would depend on the child's age and what the actual issue was.

 

 

 

No. Nor from myself... but we have all made mistakes.

 

 

 

I don't know how to answer this since I think we view "severe" and perhaps even "consequences" differently.

 

 

 

Again, not from any of us, but mistakes have been made. ;)

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Kids who don't fulfill their responsibilities for the day miss out on a family fun time for those who are done their responsibilities.

 

 

 

*stares bewildered*

 

Uhm. I have the opposite problem, I have to *forbid* them to take on more than they can manage....

 

 

 

I talk with them. I try to model for them. I try to listen to their struggles and help them. I live in a community which shares our core values.

 

When they mess up, I try to help them fix what can be fixed and learn from their mistakes.

 

From the beginning of their lives I have tried to teach them that we each have a unique soul/piece of Divinity, and that we each have a role to play in the world... and the way to do that is to be our best and truest selves.

...that we, their parents, love them and believe in them and are here to help them... but that the real work is theirs, not ours. It is their life journey, their spiritual growth, for that matter their education.

 

We try to teach them that family means being there for each other. That it means forgiving each other and trying again. Ditto community.

 

 

 

But it isn't about compliance. Compliance isn't our goal, that isn't what we are trying to teach them.

 

Sometimes requiring compliance is a *tool*, is part of achieving the real goal, but it is never our primary focus... if that makes any sense.

Thank you. You might be surprised to know how many of the above we handle very similarly.

[albeto]

My point in asking the questions is do you (not you specifically) make your children do things they don't want to do.

 

Very rarely. I will stop them from bringing harm to themselves or others or causing distress to themselves or others.

 

If you tell your child to feed the dog, is your child allowed to walk away saying "no" or do you as a parent make the child feed the dog or suffer the consequences for not complying.

 

I don't tell my kids to feed the dog. My youngest son has a bearded dragon and a corn snake. Increasingly he's been resistant when I'd ask him if he'd fed them or reminded him to feed them. Turns out, he's quite a bit stressed over the idea of them dying. There have been a great number of pets (some very special) dying this year which only brings back memories of Grandpa's death last year. My choice is to either force my son to feed them anyway which would certainly train him to be responsible without complaining. However, it would also teach him that I use manipulation to get what I want. I can withhold privileges or use words to make him feel guilty. An 11 yo isn't expected to enter into a legal contract because they don't have the maturity to see it to the end so why would I expect him to have the maturity to navigate all these emotions by himself? Instead, we all care for the animals and dh does those things that make ds most anxious (like finding the snake and bringing him into his feeding cage). In this way, ds is learning that his emotions are heard and validated and we're working together to solve a problem. No one is forced, no one is coerced.

 

Apparently in your world mouthiness means something totally different than in mine.

 

As is expected. It's a subjective term. What does mouthiness mean to you? Saying no? Saying you can't make me? Saying f-you? In my experience people swear when they're extremely frustrated (except for those of us who find them perfect interjections). When we affirm the emotions and requests and desires of our kids, we've found those frustrations have decreased significantly.

 

How do they learn that life is about consequences if they don't experience consequences at home.

 

Life is full of consequences. Cause and effect are how we learn. Babies learn to control that muscle babble (the random jerky movements of arms and legs) and learn how to hold objects, how to focus on faces, how to cry to get needs met. Toddlers learn how to balance, how to get their needs met independently. Children learn how to negotiate and cooperate to continue positive social experiences. Tweens refine that and teens learn to do it based on value systems *they* see as important, based on cause and effects they've experienced their whole lives. It's a mark of intelligence to know cause and effect and that's one of the things that sets humans apart from other creatures - we can see the patterns in these events, the causes and effects and how they relate to other events. We can predict a likely outcome and work to manipulate an outcome in our favor based on this. It's human nature. It's how we're wired.

 

By mouthiness I'm talking about telling mom something along the lines of she is a fat cow who should go feed the dog herself. If you call that disagreeing passionately, so be it. I call it being rude and mouthy.

 

But why would my child say that to me? I wouldn't expect it from my neighbor because my neighbors and I have a genuinely friendly, considerate relationship. I do with my kids, too. I don't call them names and I don't manipulate them into feeling bad for not capitulating to my desires (ideally, I do find myself doing that based on lifelong habits but I notice that more now that I'm seeking to be aware of it). As a consequence, they don't pick that up from me and don't treat others that way.

 

I don't get why you keep referring to your children not being pets. I don't think anyone here has equated children to pets.

 

Because pets (dogs, I should say) are expected to capitulate their behavior to comply with the desires of the master. My children aren't trained to capitulate their behavior to comply with my desires. I'm not their master nor do I ignore their own desires. Children naturally desire to emulate the older people around them. I've found that in treating them respectfully and genuinely appreciating their own choices, they return the favor. Of course it takes time for the process. That's called maturity.

 

I'm trying not to take your reply personally since I didn't mean for my questions to be a personal attack on anyone. But I get the impression you are turning it into something personal. Maybe not, since it is difficult to judge tone.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to sound angry, but I'm afraid manipulating children is a bit of a tender spot for me and that OP story celebrated the success of manipulation of children for the benefit of the adult.

[sassyscrapperinid]

Thanks for the ADHD info. I can appreciate that there are probably children out there with this as a medical problem. However, I have 9 children. 5 of which are adopted RAD children. I have to say that while 95% of the children I have EVER known- to include my children, have virtually all the inattentive symptoms- they usually lack in the hyperactive-impulse area of symptoms to the point where it becomes a problem. I feel that there are some kids who have a true medical problem but I still think after just a quick over view of these symptoms that most children have the inattentive symptoms without an ADHD diagnosis. I also feel that the hyperactive-impulse symptoms are common in children. While attending church about 3 years ago, I was made a teacher in the childrens sunday school along with 2 other ladies. I could not believe the racket and lack of discipline coming from the children in that room. Did they all have ADHD? No, they obviously just were never expected to behave in sunday school. I dont want to offend but I just cant bring myself to say that most of the kids I have known or know are ADHD because they are inattentive. I feel that alot of kids are naturally this way, along with the hyperactive-impulsive behaviors that are natural. They have to learn to rein it in. And it is hard to parent these types of kids. Currently, one of my oldest sons friends lives with us. He is 19 years old. He has been diagnosed ADHD and has been medicated on and off through out his life. Dh and I never had any kinds of issues with him before he moved in with us but listened to many people who knew him complain about his behavior. He had always been able to control himself around us. After 4 months of being with us, he is starting to relax and demonstrate some of his "ADHD" behaviors. I have always said that ADD and ADHD were mostly excuses for bad behavior. Now, after having this young man in my home and reading the links provided, I can see how he would be diagnosed with this. But at the same time, since I have seen some of these types of behaviors overcome by a couple of my RAD children, I feel bad that he doesnt seem to have been disciplined (and I dont mean spanking). He comes from a sibling group of 5 or 6 I think. He is a product of a divorced family. I seriously believe that his parents just put his needs to the side. His schooling suffered as a result. And he does have sleep issues. I know that these things I am disclosing about him could support an ADHD diagnosis, but I have to wonder if someone had focused on him, had helped him along with medicating him, what kind of young man would he be today? When dh has asked him how his family has helped him with these problems, he says they didnt do anything except the medicine ofcourse. We have had some family chats where we have discussed behavioral issues as a family to include him. He told us that his parents never did that with him. :confused: That makes me sad. So, Im sorry if I offend anyone. I am trying not to. I have been through the ringer with RAD but I have also worked my a** off "micromanaging" some of my childrens behaviors to try and help them be productive, caring children as well as adults. Not that parents of ADHD children dont try to help their kids.... I dont know how to word it as not to offend... like I said Im sure there are kids out there with a true medical problem. The young man we have living with us is the only "child" I have met that even comes close to ADHD and I have known alot of kids. Also, this is off topic a little, several years ago I was talking to a long time friend. Out of the blue she told me she has ADD. Im like what?!?! I said what makes you say that? She said that she never finishes any project she starts. :001_huh: I told her that I know a lot of women to include myself who have trouble finishing the projects they start. I also told her that since her 4 children were 7 and under at the time, that I thought it was normal to have difficulty finishing a project. I didnt feel her behavior warranted an ADD diagnoses but she continued stating she is ADD. I was like okay then. So anyways... I just think it is SO over used.

[LittleIzumi]

Thanks for the ADHD info. I can appreciate that there are probably children out there with this as a medical problem. However, I have 9 children. 5 of which are adopted RAD children. I have to say that while 95% of the children I have EVER known- to include my children, have virtually all the inattentive symptoms- they usually lack in the hyperactive-impulse area of symptoms to the point where it becomes a problem. I feel that there are some kids who have a true medical problem but I still think after just a quick over view of these symptoms that most children have the inattentive symptoms without an ADHD diagnosis.

 

I absolutely agree that it is overdiagnosed. However, my hubby has adult ADHD-Inattentive (probably had it his whole life but was only diagnosed in his 30s). He tried attending college 5 separate times and dropped out every time (even when he was getting As!). He started therapy & Adderall, and tried school again. He has gotten a straight 4.0 in all of his classes so far this time, and is in his third semester. I imagine, though, that most adults who seek treatment for it have an fairly serious case. It's much easier to say, "My kid can't pay attention--help him/her" than to say as an adult, "I still can't pay attention no matter how I try--help me."

 

For those how are appalled by the story I have questions simply out of curiosity.

 

Do you make your children go to church (or whatever your family does for spiritual needs) when they don't want to go?

 

I think they need to go when they're young, and right now mine are young so I haven't thought much about if the policy will change at young adult ages. Dd has expressed a wish to not go to her particular class last month, and I never hauled her in by force, but dh & I talked to her in detail to find out why she didn't want to go (combo of being hungry after the sacrament meeting, and a personality conflict with her teacher). We dealt with the hungry issue by bringing a snack, let her teacher know (who was then purposefully warm & encouraging to dd), and we are also planning a few extra helps like setting up playdates with the other kids in her class so she is more comfortable there, as her friends are in the lower class. We did not force her to go but the first day, dh went to class with her, and the second day (along with the talk about the real issues) I let her come & sit with me for ten minutes in between classes and then go back, and that was the day I talked to her teacher so at the end dd was effusive that her teacher DID like her, and I don't anticipate nearly as much of a problem anymore.

 

Do you make your children go places they need to be (family reunions, doctor's office, siblings recitals) even though they don't want to go?

 

It depends on the situation. Important things, yes. Unimportant things, no. If they have a valid reason for staying home from an incidental visit (like being too tired to go to the library or on a walk), that's fine. Important things like medical visits, they have to go. We will talk about exactly what will happen, and why they have to go, and sometimes they are sad about it, but they do have to go if it's important. I've never had to drag a child to a medical appointment. Our relationship is strong enough & they have their questions answered enough that they come of their own volition even if they don't like it.

 

Do you allow disrespectful behavior and words from your child?

 

It depends on what you mean. I understand if they have a difference of opinion, and I will discuss exactly why we can't do what they want, and what we can do instead. I understand that if they are hungry or tired, they will be grumpy, and any yelling is usually greeted with the question of which they need, food or a nap? 90% of the time they're hungry, and we deal with that quickly. Low blood sugar is a genetic issue in our family. However, if they can't control themselves while food is being made, they need to stay in their room until the food is ready. The general rule for tantrums in our house is that if you can't behave yourself around the rest of the family, you remove yourself to your room & get your grumpies out there. When you're calm, you can rejoin the family. Namecalling is not even a part of our vocabulary, all kids included. Hitting is rare but it is treated like yelling. The child also has to make restitution to whomever they disrepected--say sorry, hug, help pick up any mess they made, whatever the situation requires. Once they were having a fight & I tried a funny solution I read about--I made them sit on the couch & hold hands until they stopped fighting. After a minute of whining they were giggling, and then it segued into a game invented on the spot. No more fighting or even the thought of it left.

 

If your child blatantly disobeys are their sever consequences?

 

There are consequences but they are different in every situation. Some rule breaking results in staying in their room until they are ready to follow the rules of the house, others have consequences stated beforehand (if you don't _____ then we can't _____, if you _____ then we can _____), and others have consequences assigned when they occur. Usually it's a time alone in their room until they are ready to behave safely & appropriately, or a logically related removal of privilages. There is also a degree of cause remediation--like when sensory issue dd is misbehaving & she really mostly needs some sensory diet, I'll talk to her about her behavior and how it's unacceptable, and then give her some sensory stimulation. Generally the behavior does not then recur. Corporal punishment is not a method we use.

 

Do you allow mouthiness?

 

Same answer as for "disrepectful words."

 

Do you make your kids do chores? What if they don't want to?

 

Sometimes. I don't have assigned chores, but I will ask them to pick up a room, or put an item away, or put their clothes in the washer, etc. If they don't want to, sometimes I don't mind (like if I was doing it myself & asked if they want to help & they say no--a situation where I didn't *tell* them to help, but it would have been nice. Sometimes they volunteer & sometimes not) and sometimes I assign a particular result from not cleaning it up (toys left on the floor like garbage tonight will be put in the garbage, we will go to the park in ten minutes but you have to clean up the playroom first), and sometimes there is a reward for cleaning like a little treat, since we don't do regular chores & allowances yet.

 

Do you make your kids do some kind of community service or give back to the community in some way? Volunteer at the local soup kitchen or some such? What if they don't want to?

 

So far they love service & I've never had to make them. I would probably require occasional service if they didn't like it, as often service becomes fun & beneficial once you get going. One of the adults in the house would also be serving in that situation, though. I wouldn't force a child to do something that dh or I weren't willing to do.

 

What do you do or say to your children to get results? Or do you not expect anything from them?

 

Ummm, we just talk about it? Responsibilities, expectations, love, logical results, occasional time limits, explaining exactly what needs to happen and details about why, etc.

 

I understand that there are ways to get compliance without constant spankings. I'm just wondering what it looks like in your home.

 

:)