Tips for preparing impulsive child for first away camp?

[lakotajm]

My soon to be 8 yo is old enough for church camp this year and is determined to go. I am a little concerned because of behavioral issues we have had with her. She seems unable to control her impulses to invade others' boundaries part of the time. She has trouble with frequent lying and stealing her sisters' stuff. Also touching others without being invited-whether hugging or hitting.

Help!? I had a bad dream the other night where she started a public school 1st grade (and she's finishing 2nd in hs) and I was freaking about her being able to be good so I had to stay in the classroom the whole time.

Can I do any thing you know of to get her to the point of being socially acceptable? I think she would do better with kids outside the family, but not a lot better.

 

The camp is for two days, which seems a bit much to me.

 

Lakota

[lakotajm]

Bumping.

 

Also, I have a prologue to add.

This evening, as we were leaving town, we had a blowout over me not letting her go into gas station to pick the drink she wanted. I was going to get flavored water and there was to be no debate and no getting out. She exploded and then wouldn't buckle when I got back in. Finally, she started to buckle, but began kicking the back of her sister's seat in protest. This earns getting out to run 5 laps around the truck, but she wouldn't do that either. I called my mom and was gonna have her come and get her for the weekend. I had had it with her bratty attitude lately. She decided to buckle, and then we went there to cool off until dark. We have no air conditioning in truck or house. I thought that might be part of the crankies. (Heat index was over 100)

 

It's funny that we are all debating the fs/"entitlement" issue, because that is what she has been displaying alot lately. I don't agree to get her xyz/take her to do xyz and she screams, whines, cries, tells me I hate her, etc.

She did not used to be this way. Is this an age thing? She is nearly 8. What is up?! I have had it! I am not trying to raise brats, and I thought I was a pretty good mom, but then why is my kid suddenly a brat?Vent,vent,vent! :glare::banghead:

[katilac]

Did you mean camp is two WEEKS long, or just two days? How far away is it? Sleep away or day camp?

[Ottakee]

Impulsivity was my dd's biggest symptom of her ADHD. Treated with meds, it is MUCH MUCH better.

 

A book that might give you some ideas is THE EXPLOSIVE CHILD. Might not fit the "ideals" of how to raise kids long term but the ideas sure help when things are going downhill fast.

 

Is this a sudden change for her? Has she always been very impulsive?

[Starr]

I wouldn't send a child to camp that young so feel free to ignore my thoughts but I don't see how this would be a positive experience for her. I would wait until she has more self control. And it sounds like you are really in a battle of wills that you need to work out. This too will pass. :)

[Impish]

If I can't trust a kid to behave appropriately at home, they wouldn't be going away.

 

To me, thats a natural consequence of negative behaviours.

[LibrarianMom]

I'm guessing this is overnight camp where you take her one day and then pick her up the next afternoon? How well do you know the adults who are going to be staffing the camp during that time period? Are there other children/adults from your church who will be going? Will it be a small group or large group of campers?

 

If there are lots of other people from your church going that she knows and that know her, it will probably be OK. You might want to check with your daughter's Sunday School teacher or someone else who has worked with her at church to inquire about her behavior in those settings. If you know the other adults who will be there (both from your church and others), it will probably be fine. I've found that my dd will do things around me that she would never dream of doing around others. People will say how well behaved she was at church or a community event, and I'm wondering if they're talking about the same kid.

 

I'm a firm believer in the importance of church camp. Last summer my dd (who was going into 3rd grade) went to three different overnight church camps because I knew well the adults who were in charge at each location even though my dd did not. I found it to be a great experience for her and she loved it. Because your dd wants to go badly, you could use it as a teaching experience that she has to complete certain things or behave in a certain manner to earn the privilege of going or that she has to earn the money to pay her way.

[cat]

You can give them your number and tell them to be sure to call if there are any issues.

 

If my child was really wanting to go, then I'd let my child try it out. I'd be sure to tell my child that if it wasn't what they thought, then have the camp call me to come pick them up.

[snickelfritz]

My dd (newly 8) is doing a 1 night church camp. They also take 1st graders. Last year, we had maturity concerns and didn't send her. It's ok to say she's too young (impulsive, etc..) to go this year, but will revisit next year.

 

It could be legitimate to say that she can't go to camp, because her behavior isn't appropriate with you. Beyond that, talk to her church leaders and find out how her behavior is for them. I find that my dd behaves better for everyone else. And she doesn't treat friends the way she treats her sister. We work on that, but she also isn't around her friends as consistently as her sister. They have lots of sweet moments, but hit times when they have had too much and need space.

 

The lying would be my biggest issue. If the stealing is borrowing from sister without permission, that doesn't rank as bad for *us* as stealing from a store...ymmv. We work on asking permission to borrow, but they are in and out of each others rooms. They only get picky about not having permission when they are looking for a fight.

 

My dd has learned to to tone down her physical exuberance with others. It's taken constant reminders about respecting people and asking her if they like it and asking if SHE would like it.

[In The Great White North]

There's no way I would have let my 7 year old go to an overnight camp, even had she been a dependably well-behaved child.

 

Dd's first camp was when she was 12, and her 17 year old brother was there also. (It was a swim camp, kids get in less trouble when they are dead tired, and run by the Navy, who has a fairly good idea of how to maintain discipline.)

 

A 7 year old, who pitches a fit over not getting to go into the gas station to pick out her own drink, is wanting way more independence than I would be willing to give. Going to an overnight camp will make that much worse. YMMV.

[Rosie_0801]

What are the supervising adults like? I was a brownie leader for years and took all sorts of kids away with few problems. But I also met plenty of leaders I wouldn't trust my kids with for a weekly meeting, let alone a weekend. If they *like* your kiddo, I'd send her. If she's just a bot on a seat, I wouldn't.

 

Rosie

Edited June 4, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[linders]

I would not let her go. It would be unfair to the staff and other campers to have to deal with these issues.

 

You could let her know that such a camp is for girls who have demonstrated more self-control and maturity and make it a goal to earn through demonstrating such.

 

I don't say this to be harsh, but I have told my DS10 the same thing - he needs to show us that he can behave appropriately on his own, and he is getting there.

[lisamarie]

DH is going on staff. That's how I am okay with my DS going to camp for the first time this summer. Ours is a week. DS is rather impulsive, but I think he'll be fine at camp because it is sooooo structured and the kid to staff ratio is about 2:1 so there is always someone around to help redirect the kids if needed.

[lisamarie]

(Heat index was over 100)

 

It's funny that we are all debating the fs/"entitlement" issue, because that is what she has been displaying alot lately. I don't agree to get her xyz/take her to do xyz and she screams, whines, cries, tells me I hate her, etc.

She did not used to be this way. Is this an age thing? She is nearly 8. What is up?! I have had it! I am not trying to raise brats, and I thought I was a pretty good mom, but then why is my kid suddenly a brat?Vent,vent,vent! :glare::banghead:

 

I don't know if it could be related, but my DS becomes a completely different child when he is hungry, dehydrated, or overly hot. The past 2 weeks have been a real adventure with the temps hitting the high 80s-low 90s when just before it was in the 40s. The last 2 nights at dinner he's been super out of control (crying, wanting to get violent--you can see the frustration in him as he is practically shaking from wanting to hit something but luckily he doesn't, and he's a bit unreasonable). Then he eats dinner and drinks some water and is totally fine afterward. I'd start noting what's been going on all day--note the temp, her fluid intake, when she last ate--to see if there is a trend that could be triggering her behavior.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I don't see how running laps in crazy hot weather would do her any good.

 

I've always found that with my kids, a sudden behavior change means something is going on. My dd is normally a UTI or constipation, and ds would be an oncoming asthma flare.

 

I know nothing about church camps, so YMMV. If the adults in charge know her, and are able to be consistent, it could be good for both of you. It sounds like you need that break (I almost had ds admitted to a psych hospital at 4 so I know how frustrating it can be), and it sounds like she needs it as well.

 

If you choose to send her, you need to prepare youself for a possible fallout when she comes home. My ds can handle behaving for other people because it's usually a short amount of time. When he gets home, it's always a few days of horrid behavior before he settles down. The most important transition tool is that *I* stay calm and consistent from the moment he gets home.

[Momling]

I was a girl scout camp counselor and got kids from all sorts of backgrounds and with all sorts of levels of maturity. The youngest for a 5 day session was just 5 1/2!

My kids both love camp and I have no issues sending them to a short well-supervised camp. My older is very mature and went to a mom-and-me church camp at 5, a mini-camp at 6 and a full week from age 7. My younger has the potential to be quite naughty and defiant, so I worried too. However, the way she behaves around me is entirely different than how she behaves in a group of kids and counselors. I took her to a mom-and-me camp at 6 and she did great. She was so eager to help clean the dishes and sweep the floor and follow the rules in a way that she isn't at home. The dynamics of power are different, the expectations are different, the situation is different. And now, at age 7, I'll let her attend a mini-camp (3 days, 2 nights). I have some worries, but I trust that she will hold her own, and if she falters, I trust the camp staff to be able to handle it.

[Chris in VA]

Is it a matter of she won't behave, or she can't behave? That would significantly change the way I saw things. If she's choosing to be the way she is, then she can make another choice--then I'd give her consequences, both positive and negative, for her behaviors. If she can't choose because she either doesn't have the tools to manage her strong emotions or something is blocking the acquisition of those tools, like ADHD or something else, then I'd work at teaching her and removing the blockage (like thru intensive working with her on social skills, expression of emotions, and maybe diet or even meds if warranted).

Edited June 5, 2011 by Chris in VA

[Lady Florida.]

Impulsiveness is my son's biggest ADHD symptom. He was already on meds at that age, but I still wouldn't have let him go. Even with meds, he was still impulsive - just not as much. He didn't go to an overnight camp until last year (age 12). I had a long talk with the adults in charge and fortunately they were familiar with ADHD. His meds went with him. Also, he was old enough to understand that this is something he has to work hard to control.

 

I'm sorry, that probably didn't help you. The best advice I can give is for you to talk with the adults. Are they professionals who work with kids regularly or just other parents? Not that parents can't understand, but if they're used to working with kids, your dd might not be the first impulsive child they've worked with.

[elise1mds]

...the way she behaves around me is entirely different than how she behaves in a group of kids and counselors. I took her to a mom-and-me camp at 6 and she did great. She was so eager to help clean the dishes and sweep the floor and follow the rules in a way that she isn't at home. The dynamics of power are different, the expectations are different, the situation is different. And now, at age 7, I'll let her attend a mini-camp (3 days, 2 nights). I have some worries, but I trust that she will hold her own, and if she falters, I trust the camp staff to be able to handle it.

 

This is how I perceive things. My son was 7 last summer. One of our local YMCA chapters runs a program they call Camp 1/2 & 1/2, and DS found out about it. He really, really wanted to go. The idea is that they attend day camp at the local campsite on Monday and Tuesday. Then on Wednesday they pile in a bus and head to the rural campgrounds about 45 minutes out of town. They stay there till Friday. I was very worried because my son has ADHD and Asperger's, and at the time he wasn't medicated! But my concerns turned out to be unfounded. I heard no complaints and received no phone calls.

 

He's going to do the same 1/2 & 1/2 camp again this year and is very excited. I'm a lot more relaxed about the idea this time around. I know he knows how to behave around others and while he might have the odd meltdown, most other kids will, too, at some point. The counselors receive excellent training and even ask the parents how to effectively deal with problems with their child(ren), which I appreciate.

 

If you're worried about how your daughter might behave, you might want to ask yourself what your real concern is: Is it that she might not behave for others (does she behave for others in a normal situation)? Is it that you don't want to get the phone call from an adult in charge? Is it that you're worried how other kids will react to her? If you're definitely not comfortable with the situation, then I wouldn't send her. But I'd be willing to give it a shot at this age. :)

[Mommy22alyns]

She would not be going to camp. Period.

[lakotajm]

Did you mean camp is two WEEKS long, or just two days? How far away is it? Sleep away or day camp?

Actually, I was wrong, it is actually 4 nights, 5 days long-way too much. Sleep Away-almost an hour away.

So now we are debating pickinbg her up early or me going there for their evening church service at least.

Lakota

[lakotajm]

The lying would be my biggest issue. If the stealing is borrowing from sister without permission, that doesn't rank as bad for *us* as stealing from a store...ymmv.

We have had issues with the other kind of stealing too. That has improved to the point that it has been a little more than 5 months since that has happened. We have her return it, pay for it, apologize etc.

 

The stealing from her sisters also seems to involve hiding and lying, making it a big deal for them and me.

 

Would you think a sticker chart geared to those two issues, lasting from now until the time of her camp would help?

 

Lakota

[Starr]

I think you have to decide how important camp is versus her ability to cope well. I would wait a couple of years.

[snickelfritz]

Well.......hmmm.....

 

#1. I haven't gotten to the point of taking away big events as a form of grounding. My oldest turns 8 on Thursday and, IMHO.....she just doesn't think that long term in her actions. Others probably disagree, but I keep "punishments" more immediate. Past a week, and her attention has definitely drifted. Though, I do make decisions based on known behavior. So, I would either decide she could go or not.

 

#2. I wouldn't let my daughter start camp with a camp that long. It's ok, if you're fine with it. I think many wouldn't have let their kids go away for one night like I did.:tongue_smilie: And we plan to let her go next year, which bumps up to a 3 night camp. A friend didn't let her son, almost a year older, go to the one day (not overnight) kindergarten camp that my younger went to. Personal preference. I do think the impulsive behaviors are more likely to come out over a camp that long. Best behavior wears down.

 

#3. I do think a chart is a good way to start addressing those behaviors.

 

My summation.......I think the lying and stealing (with associate deception and hiding) are BIG red flags about going to camp. It's a big responsibility to be gone that long. People leave all kinds of stuff lying around. Will that be a temptation? I worry about what you are setting the camp councilors up to have to deal with.

[Garga]

These things are so tricky. My ds6 suddenly started throwing temper trantrums a couple of months ago. They would get really BAD and violent.

 

It turns out, he had matured and needed more say in his life. We would just tell him what to do w/o a lot of leeway for him to make his own choices. He would be fine for most of the day, but them BAM! something (would set him off. He would not get his way and he'd FLIP OUT. It seemed totally random. Not sure if that's what's going on in your case, but when you wrote about her not being able to go into the store and then refusing to buckle up and refusing to run around the car...that was just oh-so-familiar that I had to share. It sounds exactly like my son a couple of months ago. He'd scream, hit, throw and REFUSE to do anything I asked him to do until the fit was over.

 

 

To solve it we ended up spending a lot of time talking and listening to him. My dh is a saint, because he would sit with my ds for 30 minutes to an hour after each event, waiting for ds to be calm enough to try to explain why he threw his fit.

 

Usually, once we finally figured out what the issue was, it was that somehow ds was overlooked or his opinion was discounted, or something happened that was unjust in his eyes.

 

 

So, we had to have a 2 prong attack:

 

#1: assess if we really were being unfair to ds. In at least 2 cases, we were! We didn't mean to be, but the situation was unfair for ds. In other situations, it wasn't unfair, but ds didn't understand our reasoning until we explained it to him.

 

#2: teach ds that even if we were unfair, throwing a fit would not solve the unfairness. Throwing a fit would result in more unfairness (losing time on the Game Cube.)

 

 

Once we stopped just punishing the bad behavior and started listening, assessing ourselves, and actively teaching him how to calm down (breathe...stop kicking...), along with calm pre-ordained consequences for tantrums....it stopped. We haven't had a fit in about a month now.

[CalicoKat]

my ADHD behaves beautifully when she's out and about. Her "honeymoon" period is about a week long though. I wouldn't send her to camp for two weeks this summer even though she begged.

 

She's going to the week long overnight camp. But she's been told repeatedly that I'm only an hour away and I WILL come get her shortly if I get a phone call about a n y t h i n g .

[snickelfritz]

She's going to the week long overnight camp. But she's been told repeatedly that I'm only an hour away and I WILL come get her shortly if I get a phone call about a n y t h i n g .

 

THIS is a great idea.

 

I also wanted to add that my dd just got back from her sleep-over camp and she had a BLAST. She told us all about the lessons she learned, the zip line, and the A-M-A-Z-I-N-G camp spaghetti.:lol:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would probably pass on this camp this year. Not as a consequence, but because if it were my kid I would think that they were not mature enough to spend several days away from home.

 

Having been in the position of having to deal with campers who were not under control, I would not want to send a child to camp who already was showing that they were likely to respond to having their will thwarted with kicking, refusing to use safety gear (the seatbelt) or who were struggling with lying and stealing.

 

FWIW, I am pretty conservative about which away camps my kids attend. I have sent my kids to scout camps, including some far away and high pressure. But I'm not planning for my teen to go on the teen beach weekend with his swim team (which is has teens from 13 to 18 years old, most of whom he barely knows).

[CalicoKat]

THIS is a great idea.

 

I also wanted to add that my dd just got back from her sleep-over camp and she had a BLAST. She told us all about the lessons she learned, the zip line, and the A-M-A-Z-I-N-G camp spaghetti.:lol:

 

:D

Yes, everything is better away from home.

 

And home gets a break too. I'm looking forward to a week when I can relax my guard a bit.

[Starr]

THIS is a great idea.

 

I also wanted to add that my dd just got back from her sleep-over camp and she had a BLAST. She told us all about the lessons she learned, the zip line, and the A-M-A-Z-I-N-G camp spaghetti.:lol:

 

But does she have behavioral issues that would make camp difficult?

[snickelfritz]

But does she have behavioral issues that would make camp difficult

 

No, but I made several posts on the subject and a different one addressed the behavioral issues and my response to that particular issue.

 

She posted multiple questions and concerns, including: "is this too young?" and "Is this too long?" and "Is my child too impulsive?"

 

The OP got responses that included answers like."That's too young, I don't send my kids to sleepover camp until they are 15." End of story.

 

My answers were, for me....no, yes, and maybe. But, I tried to address all of her questions over my....3? 4? Posts in this thread.

[lakotajm]

There have been a lot of varying opinions. And, yes, I did mention more than one or 2 things I had isue with, making it a definite ymmv thread.

But you guys have given me a lot to chew on.

 

Oddly enough, my husband seems less worried, but then, moms are always the ones to over worry about kids and their behaviors. But I think I will try to sit down with him and have a discussion about my concerns.

 

I was thinking we might be able to compromise on this. One idea I had is to stay at my mom's house (which is closer to the camp) for the last two nights of camp, come to the evening services on those two nights, and then take her home for the night, returning her at breakfast time. I hope that will be ok with the staff-I plan to call and ask. If my husband likes this idea, I think this might be a good solution.

 

Ya'll think that sounds reaonable? Thank you for your input!

 

Lakota

[sewpeaceful]

I wouldn't send a child to camp that young so feel free to ignore my thoughts but I don't see how this would be a positive experience for her. I would wait until she has more self control. And it sounds like you are really in a battle of wills that you need to work out. This too will pass. :)

 

:iagree:

 

Being a mom of an ADD impulsive child, and given the behavior, I would say absolutely no way to camp. I would explain that until behavior and impulsiveness GREATLY improves, there will be no privelages like sleep away camp. Given how much she wants it, it might be just enough to get her attention that current behavior will not be tolerated and may be just enough to motivate some internal change.

[lakotajm]

:iagree:

 

Being a mom of an ADD impulsive child, and given the behavior, I would say absolutely no way to camp. I would explain that until behavior and impulsiveness GREATLY improves, there will be no privelages like sleep away camp. Given how much she wants it, it might be just enough to get her attention that current behavior will not be tolerated and may be just enough to motivate some internal change.

Well, here I would have to disagree with using it as a consequence or motivator, because that sort of thing totally does not work with this kid-especially so far away in time.

 

It would just majorly piss her off without having any positive impact whatsoever on her behavior. I know this kid.

 

Lakota

[CalicoKat]

Well, here I would have to disagree with using it as a consequence or motivator, because that sort of thing totally does not work with this kid-especially so far away in time.

 

It would just majorly piss her off without having any positive impact whatsoever on her behavior. I know this kid.

 

 

Lakota

You know her abilities and I think you'll make a great decision. Each ADHD kid is so alike and yet so different. But it helps to talk with other moms too to check our gut feel.

 

You're doing great!