s/o guardianships & wills, WWYD if you were me

[*LC]

Changing my will has been on my mind for a while, and I need to take care of it this summer. Actually, I need to take care of it NOW, but I'm not sure who to name as a guardian for my kids.

 

My situation is different, because I am a widow. If I die, my kids will need a new home. I don't know how to pick a guardian, because there is not a good option (except me not dying.). However, I have put this off too long already.

My kids actually have asked me where they will live if I die, and I have never had a good answer.

 

Anyway, my husband and I both have one sister. In our original wills, we named sister F and her husband to be guardians of our child(ren). The other sibling N was just getting out of college when our oldest was born. We have five kids, ranging from 7 to 16.

 

Now, both siblings are married and both live six hours from us, in different directions. F lives next to the kids grandmother. N lives six hours away from the other set of grandparents, but sees them on a regular basis.

 

Here is a quick round-down of each guardian option as I see it. I have put in a chart.

 

Option 1. Sister F and husband.

They are in their 50s and have been married since I was in elementary school. They have never had kids.

They both own their own businesses, where they work full-time. Sister F's business is open seven days a week.

They never call the kids on their birthdays. They do not come to visit us. They do see us when we go visit Grandmother, who lives next to them.

They live in a 2-bedroom house. There is room to add on to the side of the house, but it would be an odd layout. There is an in-ground pool attached behind the house.

They have 5 cats. I have a child that can't breathe or stay awake if in a house with cats for more than a few hours.

They do not go to church, which is important to my kids.

 

Option 2.

Sister N and her husband.

They have been married 14 years.

They three kids under the age of 9.

Sister N is a SAHM, and the kids go to private school. (It doesn't go through high school, so my oldest couldn't go there. I'm not sure if my others could get in.) All these nieces/nephews are extremely involved in activities and each do a couple of sports at a time. Sister N is already thinks it is hard to get everyone where they need to go. Unfortunately, while five of the cousins were born within 3-1/2 years of each other, they would be in five different grades. Also, genders and birthdays mean they would not be on the same sports teams.

Sister F and family call my kids on birthdays and just to say hi. They also see them at least five times a year plus some holidays.

They live in a four-bedroom house, with extremely small bedrooms. There is room in the backyard to add on some rooms. However, they live in the city, so I don't know if they would be allowed to add on to the house.

They have a dog and a cat. I have a child that can't breathe or stay awake if in a house with cats/dogs for more than a few hours.

They go to church.

 

In some ways, Sister N and family seem the logical choice, but I'm concerned what adding my kids would do to their kids. My nieces and nephews would have to get rid of their pets; they wouldn't be able to do activities like they do now; they would have to share their bedrooms with as many of three other kids; they wouldn't fit in their car, etc. (That gender/age thing would make this extremely difficult for a while.) My dying would turn my kids lives upside down no matter who the guardian is. However, choosing Sister N would upset their cousin's lives also. Is this fair if their is another option?

 

 

Option 3. Grandmother

On one side there is a 71-year-old grandmother, who lives next to Sister F.

She does not think she is well enough to care for the kids. She has never had all of them at one time. She hasn't had any to visit for more than a year.

She sometimes calls for birthdays/holidays. She doesn't visit, but we visit once a year.

She is retired. She never goes anywhere.

She has a cat. See above

She has a 3-bedroom house

She does not attend church.

 

Option 4. Grandmother/Grandfather

They are 70.

When asked about me dying, this grandfather has told my kids that they will take care of them. However, they have never had all of them over. In addition, grandmother shows possible signs of Alzheimer's, which her mother had.

They usually call for birthdays/holidays. They live near enough that they can see the kids regularly.

They are retired. They travel a lot.

They have a cat. See above.

They have a 4-bedroom house.

Grandmother occasionally goes to church.

If the kids lived with these grandparents, they could continue at church/sports/activities if grandparents would drive them.

 

It might make sense to split the kids and allow my oldest to live with these grandparents and send the others to live with someone else. I hate this idea, but my 16-year-old attends public school and could finish high school without changing schools.

 

Option 5.

Name my oldest guardian at 18. There is simply no way I could do this to my child, who would have lost both parents before adulthood. This child wants to go to college, which would be impossible if caring for younger siblings. I know how hard it is to be a single parent to a large family, and I had years of experience when my husband died. I could never put all that off on a young adult. I don't think even after college it would be fair to ask my oldest to be responsible for three young teenage siblings and a college freshman.

 

Option 6.

Friends.

There are none that would be a different position than Sister N and her family/kids.

 

I'd love to hear what you would do. I'd love another option that I have not considered. It was hard enough to make a guardianship decision when you "knew" you would never need it. It is much harder when you know it might be needed.

 

There would be money to help whoever has guardianship. I'm guessing once they sold our house and things, there would be enough to handle the addition.

[Harriet Vane]

Definitely sister N. She has the most love to offer, and therefore will be the most motivated to figure out the logistics. I would not give guardianship to aging grandparents with health and dementia issues--I would instead write a letter specifically asking that they HELP sister N as much as possible.

[Ottakee]

I would say sister N. Do you have life insurance or SSI that would go with the kids--either from you or left yet from dh? That would help them out. They might have to be a bigger house but with the money they could do it.

 

Praying that it never happens but if it does, would the other family be supportive? Would the church family for N help out and be supportive?

[snickelfritz]

Sister N.

 

We are very busy and do lots of activities. But, that's because we have only 2 kids. We would adjust, if we gained custody of nieces or nephews.

 

Your oldest will be able to help (and could choose to go to college nearby or something) but even at 18-19-early 20's-------having custody of siblings isn't really ideal.

[Mary in VA]

Have you spoken to Sister N about it? How she and her dh respond would make a huge difference if it were me. If it is an immediate "Of Course!" then you know your answer. Whoever has guardianship of your children will have their lives disrupted, it's just how it is, even with just one new child.

 

I pray you find a situation you are comfortable with that gives you peace of mind! My dad died when I was 13. I was an only child, but I know the guardianship issue weighed on my mom's mind. She had initially thought my adult brother was the answer, but after a prolonged visit with his family she realized that it wasn't. It ended up being a family friend who lived next door to us. Thankfully she was never needed. But I know my mom possibly dying weighed on my mind for A LONG TIME. When the unthinkable happens in a child's life, then any potential bad thing they would have never thought of before becomes a possiblity in their mind. And while I don't ruminate on it, I also want to have everything in place in case something were to happen to me or my dh.

 

Mary

[Night Elf]

We didn't want to choose our parents or siblings. We asked my cousin who wasn't even married yet. When she did marry and became stepmom to 3 children, we asked her again. She talked it over with her DH and they decided it wouldn't be a burden so we kept her name on our wills at that time.

 

DH is wanting to readdress our wills now just to update them. Although we didn't talk about it, I'd like to name my dd19 as guardian of my other 2. We have enough life insurance to make things easy for her, whether she was in school or working full-time. She has a great relationship with her siblings which would be important. That was one of the deciding factors when we chose my cousin. I really don't want my children living with people that don't absolutely love them, or who parent drastically different from us.

[meggie]

I would have this discussion with sister N, because only she knows the answers about what she would be willing to do. Are you able to get life insurance on yourself that would help out? If so, they could use some of the insurance money to upgrade to a bigger house. She might be willing to get rid of the animals (in my opinion no animal should come before a person). I would make any kind of adjustment necessary to be able to take care of my nephews or DH's younger siblings if I had to. I would never let them be split up. I would sacrifice and make it work. If she loves the kids, she would probably be wiling to do the same.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd say sister N and your eldest. It doesn't matter whether it is fair to dump such responsibilities on your eldest, it would have happened anyway. To get 8 kids through college, everyone would need to help everyone else.

 

Rosie

[Unicorn.]

. I really don't want my children living with people that don't absolutely love them, or who parent drastically different from us.

 

:iagree: In the case of the OP, I would go w/ sister N, possibly allowing 16 yo to live w/ Grandparents.

[bkpan]

We have 6 dc and always knew that if something should happen to dh and I, that it would be difficult to place them all together with one family. Ideal yes, but probable, not really. Lives and families change so much through the years that we decided to name a trusted family member as their guardian in the event of our deaths, and we trust him to prayerfully place the children in the best home(s). He already has 5 dc so depending on their circumstances they may not be able to raise ALL of our children. He just knows that we would want them raised in the same church community, with hopefully as many placed together as possible.

 

We realized how little control and insight we might have in the end, so we leave it in the Lords hands knowing that He is more concerned about our dc than even dh and I am.

 

Kim

[TravelingChris]

I guess I would ask sister N but I can see only doing this if you have life insurance.

 

HOw old is your youngest? IF all children are school aged, I would make sure there was enough life insurance that the oldest child could both take care of them and go to college (maybe part-time).

 

We are going to be changing our will this summer. THe guardianship will go to my middle child who will be attending college. Her sister is a high schooler and wouldn't need much supervision anyway. This would only be in the event we both die and then our kids would have life insurance plus all sorts of benefits so they wouldn't be short of money.

[trailofsparks]

If I remember right, the only option you mentioned who said they'd want your children was the grandparents. But, I would not place my kids w/aging grandparents.

 

I would choose Sister N if she and her dh could enjoy parenting my dc. If I were the potential guardian, I would turn the world upside down to have my sibling's dc. I would welcome the opportunity to embrace them, broadening our lives, hearts, home. What a distinct privilege it would be.

 

Personally, we have friends with a very large family AND friends who have a smaller family - both have offered to take our dc in the event of our death. I would choose the larger family, b/c their parenting style is more simiar to ours. Btw, dh and I each have one sibling, neither are good candidates for various reasons. Grandparents (my side) travel a lot and have said they wouldn't want to raise them. Gps on dh's side are not an option.

 

So, we would choose friends - friends who have offered and we know have big enough hearts (the whole family) to embrace our dc and share the love!!!

 

God bless you. . . . as you make your decision!

[Impish]

I'd talk to your sister N. And to your eldest.

[MinivanMom]

I would put your eldest as the guardian as soon as she turns 18 with Sister N as the alternate. I know our wills give the stipulation, "If x is unable or unwilling to serve as guardian, then . . . ". You can name your eldest as guardian with the understanding that if she is still in school or otherwise unable to take on the responsibility yet, then Aunt N will be there. It may seem like the logistics would be difficult with Sister N, but she has the lifestyle to support the responsibility and the love to be willing to find a way to make it work.

 

Please be sure you have plenty of life insurance.

[Catherine]

I would name sister F. Adding 5 children to any household is going to be a huge, huge challenge. Adding them to a household that already has several makes it so much more. I would NOT assume, as some have, that sister F would not be a good parent, because she's not done it before, not at all. I personally know a woman who, as a single childless person, adopted her four orphaned nieces and nephews and she was an awesome Mom. I personally don't think everyone can handle a very large family, and someone who has chosen a smaller family, that is suddenly made into a very large one, may not adjust as well as someone who is starting fresh.

 

I would also consider placing the two oldest with grandparents and the three youngers with the nearby sibling.

[Brilliant]

...

 

We are going to be changing our will this summer. THe guardianship will go to my middle child who will be attending college. Her sister is a high schooler and wouldn't need much supervision anyway. This would only be in the event we both die and then our kids would have life insurance plus all sorts of benefits so they wouldn't be short of money.

 

We are in the process of doing this, too. We are in a similar situation as the OP in that we have no ideal family for our 15yo to go to. As we discussed his preferences with him, 18yo dd asked why she couldn't be his guardian. We told her we didn't want to burden her with that. But later we came back to the conversation - where & how would they live - & both dc insisted they wouldn't want to be split up (the nearest relative is in another state). So that's how we're setting it up - with a trusted relative to handle the money until they are older.

 

Of course, ds and I would both have to die in the next 3 years for this to matter.

[Danestress]

I would imagine that it would be a financial struggle for most of us to afford to raise 5 kids, and then to do it as a single parent would be even harder, financially.

 

But honestly, my best idea includes a really really big insurance policy. You only need term insurance - and really the bulk of what you need is just for 10 years or so.

 

If I were you, I would want to be able to tell either sister, which ever is willing and able, that if I were to die, there would be money available to buy a larger house or add on to the one they have, and money to pay for a full time nanny.

[WistfulRidge]

Have you talked to your oldest about it? I brought up this topic with my parents when I was 17, right after one of my aunts died of cancer. At that point guardianship of us kids would have gone to my dad's younger brother and his wife (their previous will had named my mom's oldest sister). After a long discussion that spanned several evenings my parents agreed to rewrite that part of their will when I turned 18 (which they did). I knew that if something did happen and I did have to become a parent to my siblings at such a young age it would be really hard. Things would be very tight financially and many, if not all, of my goals would have to be pushed off or restructured, but honestly I felt much more at ease knowing that we'd all be together. It's not that extended family wouldn't love them and take good care of them, but they wouldn't know them like *I* do. My parents have had talks with my siblings as they've gotten older about this and all of my siblings are very happy with this - if the worst did happen they'd much rather come live with me than with any of the extended family.

 

So, of your options, I'd say talk to sister N about it and have her in the will now. I'd also talk to your oldest and see how they feel about it, and if necessary you can rewrite your will in a couple of years.

[meggie]

I would name sister F. Adding 5 children to any household is going to be a huge, huge challenge. Adding them to a household that already has several makes it so much more. I would NOT assume, as some have, that sister F would not be a good parent, because she's not done it before, not at all. I personally know a woman who, as a single childless person, adopted her four orphaned nieces and nephews and she was an awesome Mom. I personally don't think everyone can handle a very large family, and someone who has chosen a smaller family, that is suddenly made into a very large one, may not adjust as well as someone who is starting fresh.

 

I would also consider placing the two oldest with grandparents and the three youngers with the nearby sibling.

 

It is very possible sister N might not want that responsibility. Which is why the OP should discuss the situation with her and see what she would want and if she'd be able to make it work. But everyone is saying sister N because sister N already has a relationship with them. Sister F doesn't seem to from what the OP has said.

[keptwoman]

A slightly different suggestion. We have chosen guardians for the children a few times, only for the situation to change and those people no longer be appropriate. What we have now is a guardian appointed who would have an overseeing role, and appoint custody based on what is best at the time. We keep them appraised with our current thoughts on the matter and we trust them to make the best decision at the time.

 

I also agree with Rosie:

 

It doesn't matter whether it is fair to dump such responsibilities on your eldest, it would have happened anyway. To get 8 kids through college, everyone would need to help everyone else.

 

Rosie

I was only 24 when my mother died, leaving me without parents. My brother was 22. Regardless of the fact that we were both adults and no custody decision needed to be made, I still feel that now I have a responsibility for my brother. Your eldest will feel responsible for her siblings regardless of her legal obligations, just by being effectively the head of the family. My aunt and uncle, while not needing to take an official guardianship role in our lives, have taken on that role anyway, because 1/ they love us and 2/ they feel obligated to my parents to do so.

[snickelfritz]

I would name sister F. Adding 5 children to any household is going to be a huge, huge challenge. Adding them to a household that already has several makes it so much more. I would NOT assume, as some have, that sister F would not be a good parent, because she's not done it before, not at all.

 

I didn't pick her because it sounded like she spends little time with the kids and has only a superficial relationship with the children, not because they don't have their own children. I have a good friend who (wisely, I think) picked her single, childless, lived across country, sister as guardian. But, she adored the kids and made trips especially to see them.

 

I spent MORE time with my nieces and nephew before I had my own children. I had more time to do so. A childless couple with 5 pets who rarely sees, and barely knows, their nieces and nephews (and I do emphasize this, since I know some couples aren't childless by choice).......I think I made an assumption that they didn't really care for children. Only the OP knows what they are really like.

Edited June 2, 2011 by snickelfritz

[Little Nyssa]

I would say sister N. Make your will, but then put it out of your mind. You are going into great detail to try to figure this out, the fact is if kids are left orphans, there is no perfect option. And I may be in the minority here, but I would actually not discuss it with her.

[Rosy]

Sister N, and make sure you have enough life insurance that she could put the kids in school (if necessary) and get a bigger house. Possibly a bigger house could solve the pet problem, too--the animals could sleep in the garage or a laundry room that is closed off from the rest of the house.

 

I would definitely discuss it with her first, though. While it unfathomable to me that a loving aunt would not want her orphaned nieces/nephews, I think it shows consideration if you make it her choice. I would ask the other sister to be a backup guardian.

[mom4him]

I would sit down with Sister N and her husband and go over it all with them. I would tell them at the beginning that you don't want an answer right away but that you would like for them to think about all the changes that would come to their family, pray about the answer and then let you know in say a week. I wouldn't want the answer right away as it is to easy to say yes without looking at all that will take place. Later after you have made the instant commitment you regret doing it or have second thoughts.

[LibraryLover]

I'd say sister N and your eldest. It doesn't matter whether it is fair to dump such responsibilities on your eldest, it would have happened anyway. To get 8 kids through college, everyone would need to help everyone else.

 

Rosie

 

I agree this needs to be a team effort, and especially since you have a nearly grown child. It does not have to be on one person or family alone.

[StephanieZ]

UGH. Rough.

 

I'd choose whoever, in your heart, would be the best option for a family for your kids. . . and just make sure there's enough life insurance to easily cover a new house + schooling, etc (unless you have a sufficiently large estate to not need insurance).

 

Personally, I felt that so long as my kids were young, they'd need new parents, no matter how painful that is to imagine. So, while my kids have been young, we've got a sibling named instead of a grandparent. If my mom were healthy, willing, and my kids teenagers, I'd probably name her. But, she's really too much older than my kids to be a long term option, and dh's parents are just NOT an option. Realistically, once my oldest dd is over 20, I'll probably name HER, knowing that my mom would help with the youngers for those few years until they'd be independent. (And knowing there'd be plenty of $$ to make that all easier.)

 

For our 3 kids, we've got $2 million+ cash insurance plus whatever they can liquidate from our real estate/business (maybe another half million) for our kids if dh & I were to both die. I figure that way money is not an issue. . . (If they're gonna be orphans, at least they'll be rich orphans.) If you're healthy, term life insurance is very cheap.

 

One thought: You can have separate insurance policies dedicated to grandparents, of say $100k each, so that the grandparent can easily afford to fly children and/or selves back and forth for good holidays/visits regularly, and will also have that spare $$ to help out the grandchild in the future if there's something the grandparent wants to help with that the guardian isn't helping with. . . A sort of fail safe. . .

[*LC]

Thanks everyone for your input. I got in late this evening, so I have not read everything.

 

I want to post some clarifications just in case it changes how folks see things.

 

My kids love everyone involved, and I don't think they would have a preference. They would have to move six hours to live with either Sister N or Sister F. Continuing to homeschool wouldn't be an option no matter what.

 

Sister F and her husband know they are listed as the guardians and they have agreed to that. They love my children. Their lack of involvement is more an out-of-sight/out-of-mind thing. When we are with them, they are extremely involved with the children.

 

Sister N and her husband would be happy to be the guardians. (Well not happy since that would mean I was dead, but you know what I mean.) We have talked about it, because I am the guardian for their kids. My question/concern is it fair to Sister N's kids to have their life changed so drastically. My nieces and nephew could not have the life they live if there were eight of them (or even seven since the oldest will be able to drive).

 

I can't give my children the same life (or even the same me) as they had before my husband died. I accept that. They accept it for the most part. I'm not sure I can accept changing my neices/nephews lives as drastically since there are other options.

 

My kids asked their grandmother/grandfater what would happen to them if I died, and grandather responded they would come live with them. My kids reported this to me. I wimped and didn't address it with the kids or the grandparents.

 

Sister F and Sister N are friendly with each other as are all the grandparents. So, no matter where the kids go they would see all the family. Knowing the dynamics, much of the travelling/transporting would fall on the grandmother/grandfather couple and then on Sister N. This would be the same no matter where the kids lived.

 

The kids receive social security. There have college funds. There would be money for their care/housing/etc. I'm not sure Sister N and her family could move, because it is hard to find a home in the area they want to live. They had to live in an apartment for six months or so after they sold their first home while they tried to find standard 4-bedroom house in the area. I can't imagine how long it would take to find something unusual.

 

I love my oldest child (and my other kids) too much to put the guardianship of the other siblings on that kid as a (very) young adult. Think back to before you had kids and how you knew your child would be and all the things you wouldn't do as a parent. My oldest is a type A personality who has/will have extremely high expectations of children. My other children would not be able to measure up and they would be old enough to realize it. Luckily, most of us get to change our crazy parenting stances before our kids are old enough to realize anything has changed. Like I said, I hate that I can't give the kids the live I had planned. So, I can't even imagine changing the oldest's life as drastically as becoming a guardian to the other siblings would require. The oldest will be turning 27 when the youngest graduates high school.

 

Thanks for helping me think through this. It is something I have avoided for too long.

[*LC]

Updating at long last.

 

Sorry, I just never got back here to tell you what I decided to do. I know almost everyone here who picked a sister, picked sister N. I read all the reasons why, and I picked sister F. I know it is rare on here for so many folks to agree, so I thought long and hard about your posts before picking the other sister.

 

Here is my reasoning. I know the life my kids lead now isn't the life I had planned for them or the life they were leading a few years ago. However, we make it work as best we can. We can't live as we use to live. (this is about human resources, not money.)

 

I know there is no good option if something happens to me. I picked sister F, because that way it will only be my kids that have their lives further changed. If I pick Sister N, her children's lives would be completely changed also. They could not live the way they live now. Even if Sister N moved to a bigger house and hired nannies, it wouldn't be possible. I love my nieces/nephew too much to do that to them. I hate that I can't give my kids the life they had/want, so I just can't take it away from my nieces/nephew also. Also, as a childless couple Sister F and husband could concentrate all their efforts on my children without concern for their kids. I think my kids would need that. They have done wonderfully adjusting to life without their dad, but I don't know what would happen if I died also.

 

I did take the suggestion about any child that has reached high school age can elect to live with grandparents, so they wouldn't need to change schools.

 

I would not put an 18-year-old in charge of his/her younger brothers/sisters. I know how much I have struggled to raise the kids on my own since my husband died and I was a good, experienced mother, who was called supermom by my friends. I know all my older kids plan to go away to college. That wouldn't be possible as guardian for younger siblings. My children's childhoods have been changed enough; I wouldn't want their adulthood to be changed also. (I'm not even sure my oldest would want that responsiblity since she has seen the struggle it is for me.)

 

I am keeping it in mind for when the oldest graduates college. It may be a better option then.

 

Thank you again for all your input it helped me to see there is only one option for me. I do know Sister F and husband love my children even if they don't see them often. They are both overachievers, and they would step up to the plate and learn quickly how to be parents.

[ktgrok]

Sister N. She is the one that knows how to deal with kids, and would offer your kids the lifestyle most like what they have now. I'm sure they would figure out the cat/dog thing. Or, look for a friend that doesn't have pets, but has kids.

 

I know it is hard. I realized recently that if i died my best friend would be the best choice, not my sister, which is hard. But that's how it is.

[ktgrok]

Updating at long last.

 

Sorry, I just never got back here to tell you what I decided to do. I know almost everyone here who picked a sister, picked sister N. I read all the reasons why, and I picked sister F. I know it is rare on here for so many folks to agree, so I thought long and hard about your posts before picking the other sister.

 

Here is my reasoning. I know the life my kids lead now isn't the life I had planned for them or the life they were leading a few years ago. However, we make it work as best we can. We can't live as we use to live. (this is about human resources, not money.)

 

I know there is no good option if something happens to me. I picked sister F, because that way it will only be my kids that have their lives further changed. If I pick Sister N, her children's lives would be completely changed also. They could not live the way they live now. Even if Sister N moved to a bigger house and hired nannies, it wouldn't be possible. I love my nieces/nephew too much to do that to them. I hate that I can't give my kids the life they had/want, so I just can't take it away from my nieces/nephew also. Also, as a childless couple Sister F and husband could concentrate all their efforts on my children without concern for their kids. I think my kids would need that. They have done wonderfully adjusting to life without their dad, but I don't know what would happen if I died also.

 

I did take the suggestion about any child that has reached high school age can elect to live with grandparents, so they wouldn't need to change schools.

 

I would not put an 18-year-old in charge of his/her younger brothers/sisters. I know how much I have struggled to raise the kids on my own since my husband died and I was a good, experienced mother, who was called supermom by my friends. I know all my older kids plan to go away to college. That wouldn't be possible as guardian for younger siblings. My children's childhoods have been changed enough; I wouldn't want their adulthood to be changed also. (I'm not even sure my oldest would want that responsiblity since she has seen the struggle it is for me.)

 

I am keeping it in mind for when the oldest graduates college. It may be a better option then.

 

Thank you again for all your input it helped me to see there is only one option for me. I do know Sister F and husband love my children even if they don't see them often. They are both overachievers, and they would step up to the plate and learn quickly how to be parents.

 

Ok, that makes sense to me. I didn't realize how much they cared for your kids. Given that situation, this sounds like the right choice.

[vonfirmath]

Deleted since you've already made your choice.

Edited October 21, 2011 by vonfirmath