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On Friday, Tim Challies posted a link to an opinion piece, "Can Romance Novels Hurt Your Heart?" about "Christian romance novels." For the record, I don't read romance as a genre...Christian or otherwise. However, I do enjoy a rippin' good story that has the element of romance within the story.

 

Christians, am I the only one who thinks the author is painting with a pretty broad brush? Critique me, please... Yeah, I get his assertion that reading romance can "hurt a woman's heart". So can a lot of stuff. If that is all someone does. But aren't women wired to crave an element of romance? What about liberty in Christ?

 

I'm the first one to say that my husband isn't romantic... I don't know many men in real life (from what their wives have told me) who are. But reading a bit of romance has done absolutely NOTHING to hurt my marriage. In fact (TMI) when I tend to be on a reading jag, our intimacy tends to increase...

 

Help me understand this... not looking for a fight, of course.

 

PS Home from church today with colds all throughout the BBB household. Blah.

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I'm with you. I don't see the reading of romance, Christian or secular, to be detrimental to one's immoral soul.

 

I would also like to point out that while many many readers of romance are women, there are many men who read romance. There is even the occasional male romance writer.

 

 

ETA: Something about the above linked opinion piece is really bugging me. What exactly is the author's motivation? Is he saying that women should keep their expectations low enough that their men don't disappoint? When did high expectations become a bad thing? If one ascribes to the man being the spiritual leader of the family, why would a woman put up with a weak leader? Then to blame it all on romance novels? Bah. I think this Moore fella might have some underlying issues.

Edited by Parrothead
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I agree with him - **for some people**. I think it has more to do with personality than with what books you read.

 

If someone were to consume a steady diet of hot and hunky man sweeps woman off her feet despite terrible circumstances and 'save' her so they can spend forever together, reality begins to look pretty dim in comparison - especially if you're someone who wants to be 'saved'.

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Well, of course, romance novels are bad. We women are far too stupid and emotional to differentiate the illusion of fiction from reality. :tongue_smilie:

 

I found the entire article paternalistic and condescending.

 

 

Well - no - I don't agree with that, obviously.... but my mom did use them as an escape from reality a bit too much. She complained all the time that she wished my dad acted more like that, that her life was horrible in comparison, etc etc. Now - I believe she was mentally unstable and somehow unwell (possibly bi-polar), and I am sure that makes a huge difference.

So - perhaps they aren't good for people who are already pre-disposed to such things?

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I don't know about Christian women in particular, but I do think they (meaning the sloppy, ridiculous ones) were bad for my mom....

 

There is a great divide between secular "hot" romance novels and Christian romance novels that the man in the link was describing.

 

In Christian romance novels, things are sanitized to an extreme. It's like comparing Disneyland's Main Street with Watts. Talk about perpetuating illusions... yup.

 

Because of this, my personal preference is a secular "sweet" romance. The characters get to be actual people (sort of) not fairy tale characters on Main Street USA, and there are no s*x scenes to mock (Really? It happened for you *how many* times in the course of 10 minutes? Is that even physiologically possible?)

 

:001_smile:

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I agree with him - **for some people**. I think it has more to do with personality than with what books you read.

 

I think that could probably be said about anything, though. Even a very good thing could become a problem for some people, if they used it to escape from their problems or devoted too much time to it.

 

So I don't think singling out one genre of fiction or one hobby is particularly useful, especially given that I really doubt that romantic fiction is a genuine problem for the majority of people who read it.

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Well - no - I don't agree with that, obviously.... but my mom did use them as an escape from reality a bit too much. She complained all the time that she wished my dad acted more like that, that her life was horrible in comparison, etc etc. Now - I believe she was mentally unstable and somehow unwell (possibly bi-polar), and I am sure that makes a huge difference.

So - perhaps they aren't good for people who are already pre-disposed to such things?

 

I think you're onto something (the bolded). Anything can be abused, be a problem, hurt someone. Anything. Food, s*x, work, sports... all are good things that can and are abused.

 

I just don't think the author's premise that most (or all?) women are hurt by reading love stories is accurate or fair.

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There is a great divide between secular "hot" romance novels and Christian romance novels that the man in the link was describing.

 

In Christian romance novels, things are sanitized to an extreme. It's like comparing Disneyland's Main Street with Watts. Talk about perpetuating illusions... yup.

 

Because of this, my personal preference is a secular "sweet" romance. The characters get to be actual people (sort of) not fairy tale characters on Main Street USA, and there are no s*x scenes to mock (Really? It happened for you *how many* times in the course of 10 minutes? Is that even physiologically possible?)

 

:001_smile:

 

:lol::lol: Excellent points.

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Based on the responses here, I was expecting the blog post to be much more offensive.

This is not to equate morally “romance novels†with the grave soul destruction of pornography. But it is worth asking, “Is what I’m consuming leading me toward contentment with my spouse (or future spouse) or away from it? Is it pointing me to the other in one-flesh union or to an eroticized embodiment of my own desires? Is this the mystery or a mirage?

 

Those are questions worth asking. He's not telling you the answers to those questions, just pointing out that throwing the title of "Christian" onto a romance novel does not make it beneficial to your soul or marriage. The few Christian romance novels that I have read seemed to create situations where even though a couple was married, they were almost strangers. The "s*x with a stranger" element was still in the book, just with that little technicality of marriage. Heck, even the Twilight series managed to get around that technicality.

 

Escapism is a huge temptation. Men often escape with p*rn, women often escape with romance novels. I think that was a true parallel to draw. The difference between a good novel that contains romance and a straight romance fiction is the intent. The novel has more to offer. It has depth. The romance book is just walking a woman through the (predictable) steps of danger/rescue/redemption/s*x to that mental high of escape.

 

Now, as for personal application. I personally read plenty of fiction that has romance. However, that romance high is not what I'm after. I want a story that moves me. There are times when I am aware that I am escaping into reading. I try to be conscious of how my hobbies (any of them, but in this case reading) effect where my head and heart are.

 

I don't judge anyone for what they read. We are all in different places. Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. What is bad for me might be fine for you. I still think that the author's bolded questions above apply, it's just that our answers might not be the same.

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I also didn't find the post as offensive as I expected and I'm not a conservative Christian or much of a reader of romances (though I do enjoy them occasionally), much less Christian ones.

 

I don't agree with everything he said at all, but I do think there's a danger in idealizing romance and happy-ever-after - for women and men, as he points out. For some women, these aren't escapist fantasies but blueprints for happiness. And the more that it's sold as the model of a happy relationship (starting with Disney princesses and going straight on up to romance novels and movies) the more that it does people a disservice because romance takes work, successful relationships take work, marriages don't end with the honeymoon, and so forth. One thing he said that I actually liked is how he pointed out that the men in these books are rarely working class or flawed, but always of a certain socioeconomic status, which subtly reinforces the idea of women marrying a man for the money, which is never a nice way to start a relationship.

 

But while these are questions worth discussing, I also have zero problem with escapist literature or fantasy. And it's up to individuals to know the difference between that fantasy and the reality, not for others to tell them "the right" sorts of books to read. At least, in my humble opinion. So while it's a feminist and Christian (how often does one get to put *those* together, right?) issue to deconstruct, I don't think it's up to anyone to call such books morally wrong.

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I think it's one of those areas that one needs to search their own heart over. I read a book early on in our marriage that had a worman who was being cheated on by her husband. I knew my husband wasn't cheating, so it didn't influence me like that. But I did notice myself feeling a little rotten towards him. I also notice myself growing discontent when exposed to a lot of romance. (and I don't read "romance" either, but it is wrapped into a lot of stories.) I didn't read the article you're talking about specifically, so I can't speak directly to that. But I do think it's good to be wise and introspective about this sort of thing. We woman are built for romance and we also have a tendancy to compare. These things can work together to our detriment even in the best marriages. Every husband is a human man with imperfections and limitations and even the best marriage has it's struggles. When compared to a dream or story or other man, they will fall short.

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You can't compare Christian Romance with secular romance, they're not the same thing at all.

 

Of course it's a man writing this. Point the first.

 

Point the second, romances give women hope. For every woman out there that says it raises her expectations unrealistically-(really?) there are more that said they gave them courage, helped them heal, gave them strength, helped them get through a process. I know authors who have gotten mail thanking them for helping heal their marriages. Kid you not.

 

You can't look at romances like they were written in the 70/80s. It's a different animal. The protags are mostly strong women who encounter real conflicts and overcome them themselves. It's not girl meets boy. Boy saves girl. These protagonists are saving themselves and it's empowering for women to read them. Even the historicals-some would say they're almost not historical because the women all seem to be outliers for their time.

 

Romances got me through some of my scariest days. Yes, prayer, being a Christian, faith, but I couldn't do that for 24 hours, yanno? I needed something to take my mind off my problems. One author made me laugh so hard I had to press my morphine button, and I wrote her a letter, too, thanking her for making me laugh when life was bleak.

 

I don't watch TV. I read. I can't read Plutarch all the time, so I read romances.

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You can't compare Christian Romance with secular romance, they're not the same thing at all.

 

Of course it's a man writing this. Point the first.

 

Point the second, romances give women hope. For every woman out there that says it raises her expectations unrealistically-(really?) there are more that said they gave them courage, helped them heal, gave them strength, helped them get through a process. I know authors who have gotten mail thanking them for helping heal their marriages. Kid you not.

 

You can't look at romances like they were written in the 70/80s. It's a different animal. The protags are mostly strong women who encounter real conflicts and overcome them themselves. It's not girl meets boy. Boy saves girl. These protagonists are saving themselves and it's empowering for women to read them. Even the historicals-some would say they're almost not historical because the women all seem to be outliers for their time.

 

Romances got me through some of my scariest days. Yes, prayer, being a Christian, faith, but I couldn't do that for 24 hours, yanno? I needed something to take my mind off my problems. One author made me laugh so hard I had to press my morphine button, and I wrote her a letter, too, thanking her for making me laugh when life was bleak.

 

I don't watch TV. I read. I can't read Plutarch all the time, so I read romances.

 

:iagree:

 

The women in today's romance novels (both secular and Christian) are strong women. Sometimes they get themselves into a bind where they need some help, but they aren't grovelling little sissies.

 

I think that Christian romance also offer up element of faith that can be encouraging beyond just the romance. You never know when reading a scripture paired with an inspirational story might make your own faith stronger.

 

I also think its OK to want a strong Christian man. It can help us encourage our husbands to be strong. Or for young women to set a high standard for the men they date. But it also paints a (semi-) realistic view that even strong men are flawed. Faith can slip. But through prayer you can grow stronger together.

 

I do think, as the pp stated, that certain personality types can get hooked on the 'perfect' man and it can be bad for them. But as a mostly-sane woman, I find Christian romance novels to be encouraging and uplifting without leaving me or my marriage tainted. (I enjoy some of secular romance novels too, but tend to go for the 'sweet' ones as I don't like the s*x with a stranger - especially since they are so unrealistic! Seriously who in their right mind has s*x with a stranger on a bed of rocks in a cave while running for your life??)

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I've heard this and other arguments like it a lot. For myself, I don't really take it that seriously. I've never compared my husband to a character in a book and wished for the character. I have the real thing, what could compare?

 

I like to read mindless stuff for fun and that's all there is for me. I have had a friend who get caught up in the escapist part, forgetting it was pretend and decided to stop reading them. I also had a friend who was in a very bad relationship and loved romance novels. Once she managed to leave and get that behind her, the novels held no appeal. Honestly, I think certain Nora Roberts books about women finding happiness after leaving abusive relationships HELPED her by giving her something to look forward, kwim?

 

I guess they could be detrimental, depends on how you use them, if they interfere with your real life, and so on.

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I think it depends a bit on how content you are in your marriage and why you're reading the books in the first place. If you feel your marriage is lacking in "romance" and you're reading the books to try and fill that void, you will just become more discontent.

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I'm with you. I don't see the reading of romance, Christian or secular, to be detrimental to one's immoral soul.

 

 

:lol: Chucki, was this a Freudian slip?! :lol:

 

 

 

Ahem...

 

I think it can be detrimental, especially to those of us who have hum-drum husbands. I love my husband and I'm glad I'm married to him. But...I'd love to have some of those guys in some of those romance novels (Christian and otherwise). I really try to surround myself with helpful influences. For me personally, it is not helpful to read even Christian romance novels because they point out all the glaring flaws in my life.

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I think it depends a bit on how content you are in your marriage and why you're reading the books in the first place. If you feel your marriage is lacking in "romance" and you're reading the books to try and fill that void, you will just become more discontent.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I adore my husband. He's reliable, predictable and wonderfully steady. I read - and write - fiction to be entertained. I don't feel a shortage on my part or that anything is lacking in our marriage. Do we have bumps? Of course - you can't put two people in the same house and not have them. But he's the dearest and truest friend I've ever had and that means more than any fictional person.

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On Friday, Tim Challies posted a link to an opinion piece, "Can Romance Novels Hurt Your Heart?" about "Christian romance novels." For the record, I don't read romance as a genre...Christian or otherwise. However, I do enjoy a rippin' good story that has the element of romance within the story.

 

Christians, am I the only one who thinks the author is painting with a pretty broad brush? Critique me, please... Yeah, I get his assertion that reading romance can "hurt a woman's heart". So can a lot of stuff. If that is all someone does. But aren't women wired to crave an element of romance? What about liberty in Christ?

 

I'm the first one to say that my husband isn't romantic... I don't know many men in real life (from what their wives have told me) who are. But reading a bit of romance has done absolutely NOTHING to hurt my marriage. In fact (TMI) when I tend to be on a reading jag, our intimacy tends to increase...

 

Help me understand this... not looking for a fight, of course.

 

PS Home from church today with colds all throughout the BBB household. Blah.

 

 

Obviously, I'm not a Christian, but... I do work in a library (sometimes) and I wonder if this fellow is kind of talking about an addiction to romance novels, where the romance novels become an obsessive form of escapism. I have known people for whom that is true. The books become their "guide" for what relationships should be like. Everything else is disappointing, so they dig themselves in deeper to that world to the exclusion of other relationships.

 

This is a relatively rare thing, IME, but it does happen. Surmising that it would happen to any woman reading romance novels is a bit presumptuous, though.

 

Just a thought.

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I have no idea what "Christian" romance novels are all about....I don't read them. But I do read regular romance novels and have friends who write them. To me, they're just fun. I suppose they're as much a form of escape as reading a mystery or any other book. Do they make me discontent in my marriage? :001_huh: No, not one little bit. But maybe I'm one of the lucky ones. My romance writer friends always tell me I married a romance hero, and I agree. He's a wonderful husband and I'm very happy being married to him.

 

Maybe if you were reading them coming from the perspective of a wife who felt her husband didn't measure up to the hero in the book, you might feel some form of discontent, but honestly, I think this man is underestimating the intelligence of women in his assessment and trying to make excuses for the failure of men to be the kind of husband they know they should be. (And, wow, was that a run-on sentence or what? :lol:)

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There is a great divide between secular "hot" romance novels and Christian romance novels that the man in the link was describing.

 

In Christian romance novels, things are sanitized to an extreme. It's like comparing Disneyland's Main Street with Watts. Talk about perpetuating illusions... yup.

 

 

 

In case anyone's interested, you can find one publisher's guidelines for Christian Romance here: http://www.eharlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=559&chapter=0 (that's just plain "Steeple Hill Love Inspired" - there are similar guidelines for the "SHLI Historical" and "SHLI Suspense.") Also, this blog post from 2009 includes an alledged list of words you can't use if you write for Steeple Hill: http://blog.jasonboyett.com/2009/11/christian-romance-novel-naughty-list.html I couldn't find that on the Harlequin site, but the list seems pretty "reasonable" if you're writing Christian romance. I do think that having to avoid "Bishop" and "Father" (when speaking of a religious leader) is stranger, but I'm guessing that's to eliminate a certain variety of Christians. The comments at the end are interesting - one author talks about being even more limited than just by this list if she wants to be picked up by the Christian Book Association (and sold in Christian bookstores).

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In case anyone's interested, you can find one publisher's guidelines for Christian Romance here: http://www.eharlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=559&chapter=0 (that's just plain "Steeple Hill Love Inspired" - there are similar guidelines for the "SHLI Historical" and "SHLI Suspense.") Also, this blog post from 2009 includes an alledged list of words you can't use if you write for Steeple Hill: http://blog.jasonboyett.com/2009/11/christian-romance-novel-naughty-list.html I couldn't find that on the Harlequin site, but the list seems pretty "reasonable" if you're writing Christian romance. I do think that having to avoid "Bishop" and "Father" (when speaking of a religious leader) is stranger, but I'm guessing that's to eliminate a certain variety of Christians. The comments at the end are interesting - one author talks about being even more limited than just by this list if she wants to be picked up by the Christian Book Association (and sold in Christian bookstores).

 

Interesting reading, thanks!

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Based on the responses here, I was expecting the blog post to be much more offensive.

 

Those are questions worth asking. He's not telling you the answers to those questions, just pointing out that throwing the title of "Christian" onto a romance novel does not make it beneficial to your soul or marriage. The few Christian romance novels that I have read seemed to create situations where even though a couple was married, they were almost strangers. The "s*x with a stranger" element was still in the book, just with that little technicality of marriage. Heck, even the Twilight series managed to get around that technicality.

 

Escapism is a huge temptation. Men often escape with p*rn, women often escape with romance novels. I think that was a true parallel to draw. The difference between a good novel that contains romance and a straight romance fiction is the intent. The novel has more to offer. It has depth. The romance book is just walking a woman through the (predictable) steps of danger/rescue/redemption/s*x to that mental high of escape.

 

Now, as for personal application. I personally read plenty of fiction that has romance. However, that romance high is not what I'm after. I want a story that moves me. There are times when I am aware that I am escaping into reading. I try to be conscious of how my hobbies (any of them, but in this case reading) effect where my head and heart are.

 

I don't judge anyone for what they read. We are all in different places. Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. What is bad for me might be fine for you. I still think that the author's bolded questions above apply, it's just that our answers might not be the same.

 

:iagree: Well stated.

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Well, of course, romance novels are bad. We women are far too stupid and emotional to differentiate the illusion of fiction from reality. :tongue_smilie:

 

I found the entire article paternalistic and condescending.

 

YES. THIS.

 

 

But then, I'm a liberal Christian. I have no problem with stories about two people who love each other, be they Christian or not, black, white, striped, gay, or straight. It's not my favorite genre of fiction (that would be sci-fi and fantasy), but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who reads it.

 

The problem l have with romance novels is how poorly written and formulaic some of them are.

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The problem l have with romance novels is how poorly written and formulaic some of them are.

 

:iagree:

 

I enjoy reading certain Christian Romance authors. I don't dwell in them ceaselessly - I save that for Austen novels, usually. :D I've tried broadening my horizons and picking up books by other, more prolific authors of the genre and tend to end up being disappointed. The characters seem rather . . . foolish to me in how they handle situations, I often find myself disagreeing with the theology expressed, and the formula becomes waaaay too boring by the second or third book by the same author. Some of the historical-genre stuff I've read is simply outrageous in respect to cultural norms, societal expectations, etc, of the time as best as I can tell.

 

So why do I still read them from time to time? It's sort of like research. As far as I can tell, these authors are trying to sell their work by appealing to what they think I want to read. It's interesting to read about what type of man I'm supposed to find fascinating. (So often I'm reeeeeaaaally glad mine isn't like that!) It's interesting to try and uncover the themes and "hidden agendas" of the author - the things she (usually, at least) is trying to get me to automatically agree with by the end of the story. What problems do they assume I need to know how to fix? It's all very interesting in an analytical sort of way. I do have to watch it, though, because I know I tend to pick up the thought patterns of the characters I read about and I have to make sure I don't do that with books like these.

 

The Christian Romance genre books I do like are the ones that take a theological or moral dilemma and try their best to work it out biblically. Oh, and there happens to be romance involved. :D Even if I don't completely agree with the author in those, I still really appreciate the serious approach to "real" difficulties.

 

Regarding the link in the OP, I'm assuming he's talking about the same novels that I'm not too fond of. I wouldn't warn a friend off of them, but I don't really disagree with him with regards to my own reading.

 

Mama Anna

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Haven't read the other posts.

 

I read far too many Harlequin type romance novels when I was a teen, followed by Danielle Steel as a young adult. They never did anything positive for me. I got a terribly skewed view of love, romance, relationships, etc. For that reason, based on personal experience, I am not a fan.

 

As the mother of an almost 16 year old dd, I urge her not to waste her time on them and tell her that they are not realistic. Fortunately, she has not ever really been interested in reading them. I wouldn't outright forbid them (at her age), but I would do all I could to share my views of them.

 

ETA: I posted hastily...so I will add that I never read Christian romance novels. I don't have judgment for anyone who does. Or any other type of book. This was just my own personal experience. I was a love hungry, looking for a rescuer kind of gal, and they fed the monster. Not a good thing. ;)

Edited by texasmama
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I read Christian romance and totally enjoy most of the books I have read. If I am not enjoying it a don't finish it. ;)

 

I do understand what he is saying. If you expect your marriage to match up with a fictional fairy tale relationship and you expect your dh to meet that standard you are in for a very rough ride.

 

I am also on the board of 'I don't feel that the Christian romance novels I have read have harmed my marriage' though.

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I read a lot of historical Christian romance. The well-written ones with lots of research into the historical time period. I can't stand the ones where they meet on a plane, their religion seems almost secondary and ten days later they are in love. Mostly because I think they are poorly written and completely unrealistic lol. I don't think the ones I like are damaging (for me anyway). The men are NEVER perfect lol they usually mess up and the relationship has to be worked out.

 

I guess anything can be taken to the extreme and for some people I can see how they could escape from their real life. I honestly do too it is why I love to read I become immersed in the world I am reading about but I am not confused about the difference between the fiction and my real life.

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Are romance novels on par with Googled pics of celebrity men in kilts?

 

Maybe there's an article there.

 

;) :D

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Google men in kilts are FAR more dangerous. :lol:

 

But Mama Anna below did bring up a good point... What ABOUT Austen, Gaskell, etc... Would this author have a problem with classics which have an element of romance in them??? JUST BECAUSE it is romance? and not the "genre" romance????

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. . .

 

I. . . I never realized I was missing this in my life until now. :drool:

 

I think I am hijacking my own thread...

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264324&highlight=kilts

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261748&highlight=kilts

 

There are four pages of search results. We WTM women have an ahem... thing for kilts...

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