Nakia Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 This might not come out right, but I am going to try. How do you make sure your children don't take on your own personal convictions? I have very strong beliefs about certain things. They are MY beliefs, and I don't want to force or persuade my children to "my side", if you will. I want them to be educated and make their own choice. My girls are still young, but I don't think it's too early to start making that happen now. I have been thinking about this a lot lately because my oldest has been invited to go to the circus with her cousin. I do not and will not ever attend a circus because I think they are unethical. Please don't make this a circus debate; this is only an example. I came to my decision after a lot of reading and researching, and I don't want to force that on my children. That's not to say that I haven't explained my beliefs to my daughter. I have explained how I feel and why I feel that way, but she knows she is free to make whatever decision she wants. She can research it online if she would like. She is trying to decide right now whether she wants to go or not. I am going to let her make her own decision about it. I hope I am doing this the right way because I know this is only one of many times we will be in this situation. What are your thoughts? BTW, this is not really about religious beliefs. I know we could go there, but in order to avoid a debate, it would probably be wise to steer clear of speaking about religious beliefs in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 In some ways, I don't know that it's possible NOT to share your convictions with your children. Don't they share them naturally, at least for a little while, until they start thinking you're stupid? (LOL) I think you've handled it beautifully. You've told her what you believe, and you're letting her make her own choice. If she decides to go, she may very well come home and tell you that she agrees with you and never wants to go back. I don't think it's a bad thing to pass on convictions to your children. If you didn't think it was important, you wouldn't be convicted, right? You are doing the right thing by sharing your thoughts and giving them the freedom to make their own choices. Good on ya, Nakia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I think the method you've chosen is perfect Nakia. Like you, I have some very strong beliefs on certain subjects. Even my religious beliefs are very personal, and have come about from my own reading/understanding of the Bible and morality, not from association with any particular denomination. All the same, I also want DD to make HER decisions, not just take on mine. As she grows up, I will encourage her to think issues through, and then we can discuss what Mommy believes and why, and what Jenna believes and why. (Of course, all in age-appropriate doses.) I think the issue of the circus is a very good one to start with at 10. A will see that you respect her choices, and hopefully will come to value your opinion and be willing to consider your convictions as valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Share your research, tell her why and let her go? Let her come to her own conclusions? As my kids age, I let them make their own decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I let them decide things like that as they get older. But I won't fund things that are convictions for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Between my DH and I, we're pretty good at talking about all points of view on subjects to our children. We do share our own points of view, but tell them the other points are just as valid and they have to come to their own conclusions. However, we have no problem telling our children when we believe something is very wrong and there are no other decent point of views. Examples are crime, slavery, racism, etc. We just do not see any redeeming qualities about these subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevilla Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It depends on the age of the child and the particular conviction (and whether it is a moral conviction vs. a personal preference). With young children, our family convictions ARE their convictions simply because they don't have other options and are not yet at the Logic/Rhetoric stage to thoroughly contemplate otherwise. It doesn't necessarily mean they think the same thing, but our family lifestyle follows those convictions and they aren't at a stage yet to differentiate from that. But as they grow older into the Logic Stage there is room to experiment and try out different schools of thought on things like personal appearance, eating habits, lifestyle choices (music, etc...). That is where a parent explains their convictions and teaches the child how to evaluate those thing independently (but they are still expected to abide by the family's standards). IMO by the Rhetoric stage is where there is more room for different convictions and debate between parent and child (respectfully), and as adults for sure there needs to be healthy boundaries in place so the now-adult can develop into their own person and still stay close to their parents. My dad and I, for example, do not agree on politics. We can discuss it a little, we don't try to change each other's minds or strong-arm the other, and we respect that each person is entitled to their own convictions on the matter since we're both independent adults (who also love each other dearly and have a close relationship). I think that letting a Grammar age child decide about going to the circus or not is premature, I would tell them the family standard and then go from there (unless it truly is a personal one and you and DH disagree, then I'd let the child decide since it devolves into simple 'preference'). With a Rhetoric age student, I would lay out my principles and let them decide what to do. It would depend on the particular Logic level student on how I'd handle it - that's the gray zone for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I honestly just try to teach her that everyone has different points of view, and that that's OKAY. I don't have specific examples, but I might say "I personally feel strongly about this, but someone else might feel quite differently - we all have to make our own choices and decisions". Then I go on to say that the world would be extremely boring if we were all exactly the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 In my view, you handled it beautifully. :) With most children young double-digit age is when you can slowly allow greater autonomy in choices like this, which aren't exactly banal and have a value component in them, but which also aren't a hill to die on for you. For the latter, the things you absolutely don't want in your home or your children doing, under no conditions, some amount of coercion will always be in the air until they're of age (for example, for some people this might be not allowing their children to join an organized religion other than the one that's family's heritage, for others it will be not allowing piercings / tattoos / whatnot, etc.). If they're curious, it's important to show your children the variety of options regarding things, the variety of opinions, elaborating on how and why you reached your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) I don't think our kids can make a completely separate, objective decision until a certain age, especially if we have good relationships with them. Part of their decision making process is wanting to please their parents -- and if something they want to do goes against that, that will play into what they decide and why. I don't believe your daughter will be able to separate "Mom is strongly against this, and I love mom, and respect her, so maybe I should be against it, too?" from her thoughts/desires. Your opinion will be part of her process. And that's okay. Edited March 25, 2011 by milovaný Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It depends on the age of the child and the particular conviction (and whether it is a moral conviction vs. a personal preference). With young children, our family convictions ARE their convictions simply because they don't have other options and are not yet at the Logic/Rhetoric stage to thoroughly contemplate otherwise. It doesn't necessarily mean they think the same thing, but our family lifestyle follows those convictions and they aren't at a stage yet to differentiate from that. But as they grow older into the Logic Stage there is room to experiment and try out different schools of thought on things like personal appearance, eating habits, lifestyle choices (music, etc...). That is where a parent explains their convictions and teaches the child how to evaluate those thing independently (but they are still expected to abide by the family's standards). IMO by the Rhetoric stage is where there is more room for different convictions and debate between parent and child (respectfully), and as adults for sure there needs to be healthy boundaries in place so the now-adult can develop into their own person and still stay close to their parents. My dad and I, for example, do not agree on politics. We can discuss it a little, we don't try to change each other's minds or strong-arm the other, and we respect that each person is entitled to their own convictions on the matter since we're both independent adults (who also love each other dearly and have a close relationship). I think that letting a Grammar age child decide about going to the circus or not is premature, I would tell them the family standard and then go from there (unless it truly is a personal one and you and DH disagree, then I'd let the child decide since it devolves into simple 'preference'). With a Rhetoric age student, I would lay out my principles and let them decide what to do. It would depend on the particular Logic level student on how I'd handle it - that's the gray zone for me. :iagree: Until they're able to think a little more abstractly, we set the standard for our family. Some standards will be set until they leave the house, some they will be allowed to explore on their own, as they age. It really depends on the issue at hand. But this is more or less how DH and I have decided to approach issues like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 :iagree: Until they're able to think a little more abstractly, we set the standard for our family. Some standards will be set until they leave the house, some they will be allowed to explore on their own, as they age. It really depends on the issue at hand. But this is more or less how DH and I have decided to approach issues like this. :iagree: I let my kids know some people have different opinions and we should respect that, especially when it comes to religion. But some things are too important to me and I hope my children keep these convictions when they are adults. They are just very important to me. Things like being kind to people, not hurting animals, not being wasteful, helping people in need, diversity and equality of people, birth and breastfeeding rights, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It's definitely a process. I think they need to share your convictions earlier on, else they may feel totally lost; they need a starting point from which to feel comfortable branching out into other areas and different considerations. I think it's a fine line to walk between respecting another human's ability/desire/right/whatever to his or her own perspective, and not giving her an anchor from which to even begin her journey. By the time a child is mature enough (not necessarily old enough) to begin investigating alternative viewpoints, she is usually old enough to just have an honest discussion about x-topic and even the larger objective: "Daughter, this is what I believe and here is why. That is what others believe and I can only speculate as to why but I suspect [insert blah blah blah here]. We can certainly ask someone of that persuasion how he arrived at that belief, I just need time to arrange it/find a library book/etc.] I encourage you to consider each perspective and come to me with your questions. I can't decide for you, but I can help you wade through the information if you'd like." Of course, you have to really be able to mostly remove your personal biases (or at least be familiar enough with them to flag them to your child!). You also don't want to downplay your beliefs in a concentrated effort to not overly promote them. One can be strong in her beliefs whilst still open to the beliefs of others; it's just really, really difficult to do. It'll be a process for both of you. I don't do the circus, the rodeo, or most zoos. My kids have always known this, and I've always made it clear that I wouldn't fund or participate in those activities. At the same time, I've allowed them to go to these places with others. For now, they are kids and don't need heavy adult issues weighing on their little minds. As they mature and become more aware of things, they ask. At that point I share my reasons; before that it's always a generic "it's not right for me" type of response. Sometimes they push for specifics, and I'll give a few. Mostly I just waited for them to come of age where we could discuss these things and individual priorities or hills we each are willing to die on. My kids were raised veg*n because I was; their paternal side are all farmers, who still roast meat animals on a spit in their backyard every Sunday. This was a huge source of conflict for me. I required they eat "my" way until the age of 4; at that point I didn't discourage (nor did I permit they be encouraged) animal foods consumption. At my home they eat my way, but away from home - anything goes. One child loves animal meat and relishes Sunday meals with her paternal relatives. My other child follows my diet, unless he is a guest at someone's home; he won't inconvenience anyone but he has a definite dietary preference. I don't demonize the meat-eaters in our lives, but I don't conform to them either (cooking their way for them when they're guests in my home, etc.) -- my bias is clear, but it doesn't prevent me from seeing they may have different ideas ... and respecting those. Their dad's people come from a mountainous country with no access to the sea and very limited opportunities for farming; they had to consume animal products to survive, and of course that preference/need has trickled down into many parts of their social culture - including food. My people came from a completely different part of the world, and geographic surroundings, and those have influenced our culture. Neither is right or wrong, just different. That's how I present most things. We'll all have things that are right/wrong to us personally, but those are OUR issues and priorities. They're not always going to be shared. My kids are also Catholics. I've never been Christian, and am not looking to be. They ask me questions about death, and it's clear our respective philosophies offer conflicting outlooks. I answer them with my beliefs, prefacing them as my beliefs based on my faith; then I help them find the answers that match their church's beliefs based on their church's teachings. Then for good measure I throw in random beliefs that I know others follow. It's sort of understood in our house that discussions will follow. You don't just get an answer and a few private moments to reflect upon it; we're gonna talk it out LOL. Both sides are better for it IME. I think investigation is good; I think you becomes stronger in your beliefs by learning what you do NOT believe. One great way to discern what you do and do not believe is to be exposed to the beliefs of others, and to process those. Preferably with someone you trust and love. It sounds like your daughter has that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It depends on the age of the child and the particular conviction (and whether it is a moral conviction vs. a personal preference). With young children, our family convictions ARE their convictions simply because they don't have other options and are not yet at the Logic/Rhetoric stage to thoroughly contemplate otherwise. It doesn't necessarily mean they think the same thing, but our family lifestyle follows those convictions and they aren't at a stage yet to differentiate from that. But as they grow older into the Logic Stage there is room to experiment and try out different schools of thought on things like personal appearance, eating habits, lifestyle choices (music, etc...). That is where a parent explains their convictions and teaches the child how to evaluate those thing independently (but they are still expected to abide by the family's standards). IMO by the Rhetoric stage is where there is more room for different convictions and debate between parent and child (respectfully), and as adults for sure there needs to be healthy boundaries in place so the now-adult can develop into their own person and still stay close to their parents. My dad and I, for example, do not agree on politics. We can discuss it a little, we don't try to change each other's minds or strong-arm the other, and we respect that each person is entitled to their own convictions on the matter since we're both independent adults (who also love each other dearly and have a close relationship). I think that letting a Grammar age child decide about going to the circus or not is premature, I would tell them the family standard and then go from there (unless it truly is a personal one and you and DH disagree, then I'd let the child decide since it devolves into simple 'preference'). With a Rhetoric age student, I would lay out my principles and let them decide what to do. It would depend on the particular Logic level student on how I'd handle it - that's the gray zone for me. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 This might not come out right, but I am going to try. How do you make sure your children don't take on your own personal convictions? I have very strong beliefs about certain things. They are MY beliefs, and I don't want to force or persuade my children to "my side", if you will. I want them to be educated and make their own choice. My girls are still young, but I don't think it's too early to start making that happen now. I have been thinking about this a lot lately because my oldest has been invited to go to the circus with her cousin. I do not and will not ever attend a circus because I think they are unethical. Please don't make this a circus debate; this is only an example. I came to my decision after a lot of reading and researching, and I don't want to force that on my children. That's not to say that I haven't explained my beliefs to my daughter. I have explained how I feel and why I feel that way, but she knows she is free to make whatever decision she wants. She can research it online if she would like. She is trying to decide right now whether she wants to go or not. I am going to let her make her own decision about it. I hope I am doing this the right way because I know this is only one of many times we will be in this situation. What are your thoughts? BTW, this is not really about religious beliefs. I know we could go there, but in order to avoid a debate, it would probably be wise to steer clear of speaking about religious beliefs in particular. Nakia, In our family, we never celebrate Halloween. it is not really a religous decision, although I do not think it honors God. That said, my youngest dd REALLY wanted to go trick or treating when she was 10. Her friends were all going...and they were making such a big deal out of it at swim team, I agreed to take her. WELL...I ended up having fun....SHE HATED IT! The crowd scared her (In our town Halloween IS a big deal and the kids all t or t in town....there is a parade etc. ) The costimes scared her. She liked the candy, but she can have candy when she wants it. She knew my convictions, she knew I didn't like the idea, but I was willing to let her learn herself. No damage done (I was there the whole time.) Now, when the little boys bring up t or t...she tells them how awful it is....and let's stay home and have fun...LOL. Sometimes, they have to learn for themselves...and better at something where no damage done...kwim? Nakia...you are a great Mom! What a blessed little girl you have! Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I'm not trying to sound patronizing, but I do think that once you have teenagers you won't see this as a problem. My teens have no problem coming up with their own opinions:ack2: Sometimes they coincide with mine...sometimes they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Honestly, from my experience, this happens on its own around college age. I can only say that there are some things I wish he still held to. (eye-roll) When our son got gaga over someone, it became all about what she thinks. Edited March 26, 2011 by nestof3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I've seen more problems when parents pass on their personal fears or food preferences to their kids. Opinions, shapions. If mom does not like vegetables, then the kids are not going to try them. Edited March 26, 2011 by OrganicAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Nakia, In our family, we never celebrate Halloween. it is not really a religous decision, although I do not think it honors God. That said, my youngest dd REALLY wanted to go trick or treating when she was 10. Her friends were all going...and they were making such a big deal out of it at swim team, I agreed to take her. WELL...I ended up having fun....SHE HATED IT! The crowd scared her (In our town Halloween IS a big deal and the kids all t or t in town....there is a parade etc. ) The costimes scared her. She liked the candy, but she can have candy when she wants it. She knew my convictions, she knew I didn't like the idea, but I was willing to let her learn herself. No damage done (I was there the whole time.) Now, when the little boys bring up t or t...she tells them how awful it is....and let's stay home and have fun...LOL. Sometimes, they have to learn for themselves...and better at something where no damage done...kwim? Nakia...you are a great Mom! What a blessed little girl you have! Faithe But what if instead of hating the experience she had enjoyed it very much ? Would that make a difference in whether or not you would give her as much freedom of choice the next time she asks to do something you would hope she ultimately chooses against ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 You keep feeding them until they become teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I try to convey not only why I believe the way I do, but an understanding for what the opposite position is. I argue both sides so to speak. This requires that I first develop an understanding of the opposite side (which is not always easy!!) and a respect for the people who hold that view, even though I don't agree with them. If my kids end up coming to the same conclusions as I have, they will still have an understanding about the other side that will help them to be kind and respectful to everyone, plus when you see all sides you can argue your position better should you be involved in a debate type discussion IMO. And if they come to a different conclusion, then they will know that they are still much loved and respected by me and need not be afraid to tell me they have a differing belief. For minor issues, this may lead to very interesting debates in the future. But foremost in my mind is the BIG stuff. Would my kid be afraid to tell me the truth if he had something happening in his life he knew I wouldn't approve of because I was too rigid in my views? That would break my heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I disagree that grammar stage is necessarily too young to start discussing such things, especially late grammar stage (I think the dd in question is 10?). Ds is 7 and we already talk about how different people have different beliefs and convictions, and that is okay. We also talk about what I believe on various topics, what dh believes (not always the same) and what various friends and relatives believe. I try to let ds explore and make his own decisions about things that are not safety/well-being issues, but within limits. The circus would be something I would probably let him try and make his own choice. I think Nakia is handling the situation beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I don't think it's a bad thing to pass on convictions to your children. If you didn't think it was important, you wouldn't be convicted, right? :iagree: I've got no problem trying to pass on my convictions to my children. I am passionate about them and not overly tolerant of differing view points that I believe are unethical or morally wrong. I share that. I do explain the "other" side but also why I disagree in no uncertain terms. I live my moral convictions and expect my family to also. In our house, under this roof, when the kids are young, Mom and Dad choose what is right and wrong and what is allowed and what is not. I say, "We don't believe that's right." Or "We believe in blank." Not until the later teen years does that begin to change and shift in our home - earlier on some issues, more so then with others. So now, I have adult children and they have made their own decisions about a lot of things, many that I can't stand. They are NOT little mini-me's as much as I wish they were. :D But I do respect their autonomy, accept their choices and we all get along great - best friends! I didn't brain wash them with my passion and committment. But I did teach them to be passionate and committed to what THEY believe! edited: I am flexible on lots of things. But on unethical and immoral - not so much. I like what someone said about "family standards" vs. "personal preferences." Edited March 26, 2011 by katemary63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I'm not trying to sound patronizing, but I do think that once you have teenagers you won't see this as a problem. My teens have no problem coming up with their own opinions:ack2: Sometimes they coincide with mine...sometimes they don't. :iagree:So true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I agree that you just need to wait till they are teens and then it will be a non -issue :) Still- I know what you mean and I love how you are already handling it. I have pretty much done the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thank you ALL so much for sharing your thoughts. It's interesting to read how each family handles it. And I'm glad that my jumbled up thoughts were understandable, lol. The kind words are very very much appreciated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhgillil Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 :iagree: I've got no problem trying to pass on my convictions to my children. I am passionate about them and not overly tolerant of differing view points that I believe are unethical or morally wrong. I share that. I do explain the "other" side but also why I disagree in no uncertain terms. I live my moral convictions and expect my family to also. In our house, under this roof, when the kids are young, Mom and Dad choose what is right and wrong and what is allowed and what is not. I say, "We don't believe that's right." Or "We believe in blank." Not until the later teen years does that begin to change and shift in our home - earlier on some issues, more so then with others. So now, I have adult children and they have made their own decisions about a lot of things, many that I can't stand. They are NOT little mini-me's as much as I wish they were. :D But I do respect their autonomy, accept their choices and we all get along great - best friends! I didn't brain wash them with my passion and committment. But I did teach them to be passionate and committed to what THEY believe! edited: I am flexible on lots of things. But on unethical and immoral - not so much. I like what someone said about "family standards" vs. "personal preferences." Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks again everyone. Anna has decided not to go to the circus. I am very proud of her for thinking it through and making her own decision. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks again everyone. Anna has decided not to go to the circus. I am very proud of her for thinking it through and making her own decision. :) Isn't it nice when children think through their own thoughts and still come to the same conclusion as us? :D You should be very proud! (of her and of yourself!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 How do you make sure your children don't take on your own personal convictions? I don't. As an adult I have many beliefs and convictions that are quite different from my parents'. I am an individual and not just a product of my parents' beliefs. So are my kids. We talk quite openly about what we believe and why, and I encourage my kids to adopt our beliefs because, well, I think we are right. ;) But I don't expect that my kids will grow up to hold all the same beliefs I do, and when my kids question or disagree with my beliefs, I respect that. Well, except for my dd16's argument that being vegan is worthless because one (or two, or four in the case of our family) people not eating animal products has no impact on animal welfare. I think this is a stupid argument and have told her so, but I don't insist that she be vegan (or even vegetarian). :D Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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