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Spin off of Am I dreaming- How many students in college with little or no scholarship


Nan in Mass
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How many of us have students in college with little or no scholarships?

 

Just trying give a more realistic picture. Many people seem to think that if they can't afford college, aid other than loans will be forthcoming. I don't think it is a safe assumption, any more than it is safe to assume that someone will give you a car if you can't afford one and need one for work, but so many unusual people homeschool that I can certainly see why anyone reading just these boards would get that impression. Perhaps a thread about the more ordinary of us would help give a more realistic view? Or maybe I am wrong and it is realistic to expect this?

 

-Nan

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My ds is in that group.

 

His college only gives scholarships for one semester at a time - they have no "full ride" scholarships. His first semester he was awarded a merit scholarship of 650,000 yen based on his scores and his application. But after the first semester he would have to compete accross the whole school every semester for their small pot of scholarship money. It was too stressful for him.

 

 

He gaveup his pre-paid tuition plan which would have paid for a state university to go the college he really wanted. He's paying with a growing mountain of debt.

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Community college for us offers no scholarships, merit or otherwise, though full time students can still apply for financial aid in the form of loans or grants.

 

We've been fortunate (so far) that our 4 year schools have cost us less. However, my youngest might end up without much, especially in merit aid.

 

Otherwise, this might be best done as a poll?

Edited by creekland
typo
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My dd's are both attending the same private university. They both have a scholarships based on SAT/ACT scores that pay 30% tuition. The university does offer higher scholarships, but the competition is stiff. These scholarships still leave us paying more tuition per year than our state school would cost without scholarships. Thankfully, their grandfather left them $ to make this possible.

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Interesting question, Nan. I agree that this would make a good poll. Our Community College students are eligible for the state's lottery scholarship which covers tuition for 8 regular terms (no summer terms), so we're taking advantage of that. Fees are minimal at our CC, and we buy textbooks online which saves a lot. CC in NM is a good deal financially, but commuting costs are significant and probably going to get even more expensive.

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You are right. A poll would be a much better way to do this. People would probably be more comfortable answering via poll, and we could set it up so it tallied ranges of percentages of scholarships, and that way get a much better picture. I've never done a poll before, but I can probably figure it out how. I wouldn't mind help working out what sort of ranges to put in, and how to word it so that it only includes scholarships and grants - money that people are given by someone other than family and friends, that they don't have to pay back.

-Nan

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Good question!

 

My oldest will not receive any merit based scholarship money. Dh and I are not willing to go into debt and I would like to avoid her starting out her adult years saddled with tons of debt.

 

So where does that leave us? Right now, idk. :confused:

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My DH's financial aid is mostly federal grants: PELL grants, the TEACH grant, etc. There's also some loan money in the package. There was no scholarship money, though he continues looking for such.

 

We expect to pay for my law school with loans.

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Nan,

 

I have never set up a poll so I cannot help with that front, but there is a secondary issue that I think might also be asked. How many save for college? And how much?

 

Parents often say that they do not wish to assume debt for their child's college education, but does this mean that they have savings dedicated to the cause?

And I guess that leads another question: how many students enter college with savings from their summer employment, etc.?

 

Jane

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A poll should also indicate the approximate cost as well as the percentage -- though I have no idea how to incorporate that into a poll.

 

For instance, a 50% scholarship at a school where the tuition is $12K is going to have a much smaller affect on family finances than a 50% scholarship at a school where the tuition is $37K.

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Well my d just got her first Financial aid package. All it was her 10k merit award (the smallest award she got from anywhere) plus subsidized loan, unsubsidized loan and an over 15k alternative loan. All together, if this was what we were doing, and we would never do this, she would have 22k in loans for one year. I don't think so. I don't really get this colleges financial aid package because it looks nothing like the ones I got nor the ones my eldest got. No mention of Cost of attendance or total costs of any kind or even list of costs. Just the merit aid and three different types of loans. Good thing d had already decided against them because of the mosque on campus.

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Good question!

 

My oldest will not receive any merit based scholarship money. Dh and I are not willing to go into debt and I would like to avoid her starting out her adult years saddled with tons of debt.

 

So where does that leave us? Right now, idk. :confused:

 

 

This is where we are. My DD does have her dad's GI bill money so that should help some.

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You are right. A poll would be a much better way to do this. People would probably be more comfortable answering via poll, and we could set it up so it tallied ranges of percentages of scholarships, and that way get a much better picture. I've never done a poll before, but I can probably figure it out how. I wouldn't mind help working out what sort of ranges to put in, and how to word it so that it only includes scholarships and grants - money that people are given by someone other than family and friends, that they don't have to pay back.

-Nan

 

A couple categories that you might include:

Pre-paid tuition plan (I think some 529 plans would fall into this)

 

Scholarship in return for post graduation work committment (might be service academies, ROTC or programs like the one that pays for language study in return for government work). This page from Vanderbilt lumps in several programs as Service Based Scholarships. This might also include GI Bill for military service completed (either by the student or by a parent/spouse).

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Nan,

 

I have never set up a poll so I cannot help with that front, but there is a secondary issue that I think might also be asked. How many save for college? And how much?

 

Parents often say that they do not wish to assume debt for their child's college education, but does this mean that they have savings dedicated to the cause?

And I guess that leads another question: how many students enter college with savings from their summer employment, etc.?

 

Jane

 

We do not have any money set aside for college.

 

The current assumption/expectation of parents footing the college bill is a foreign concept to me and dh--most likely due to neither one of us receiving any help/support from parents once we graduated from high school and turned 18. In addition, most of my high school friends received generous merit based scholarship and/or worked their way through college.

 

Why is there an expectation that parents, many nearing retirement themselves and/or dealing with aging parents, pay for college?

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no scholarships for dd. She's had to take a student loan for 100% of her tuition costs. She does recieve the gov't student allowance towards her living costs & IF she lives extremely frugal this will cover about 70% of her cost of living. By frugal I mean meat, cheese, bread, etc. are luxuries. She can not afford the basic running cost of a car, even if we pay for everything but fuel, so her bicycle is her only transport. By the time she has earned her BS-Marine Biology (3 years study in NZ) she'll have a student loan of about 25K.

 

Ds#1 has had to take out a student loan for his 2nd engineering course (~$3600 for a 5 months course). We were blessed last year that his polytech course was funded by a special gov't program set up for teens that did not do well in PS. If he does well, the remaining engineering courses should be part of an apprenticeship, either in the Navy or locally in industry.

 

Ds#2 plans at this point to do his pre-apprenticeship (automotive engineering) training at PS & go directly into an apprenticeship at age 17, avoiding the need for a student loan.

 

Dh & I have no savings & as we are barely making ends meet, paying for tertiary study is not an option. We do pay for dd's bond & first 2 week's rent each year as well as leaving her with 2-3 week's food at the beginning of every schoolyear. (She only recieves the student allowance during the schoolyear, so either must come home during the summer or pay 100% of her living costs during those 3 months) Ds#1 still lives at home.

Edited by Deb in NZ
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I have two brothers in college. Both have student loans. Their father is supposed to (court ruled divorce) pay, but he does not, though their uncle pays living expenses the first 2 years.

 

My dh teaches at the local cc, so our kids will have free tuition the first two years. My oldest wants to attend chef school, but I will likely have her do two years cc or the University dh and I went to. Hopefully we have the money by then!

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Why? Because their parents paid for theirs, and the parents' parents paid for the parents', and so on back through time. That is how it works in my family, anyway. We don't think of it as being a burden on parents getting towards retirement, but instead as being a way of paying for college after having had 18 years to save for it and when you have a mid-life income rather than a just-starting-out income.

-Nan

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Ds21 has no scholarship or student loan help.

He graduated a semester early, and went to work full time from March of what would have been his Sr. Year straight thru til he went to college the 3rd week of Aug. He pays one fourth of his total costs, plus car insurance, and we pay the rest. We use a line of credit from our home, since the interest rate beats any student loan we could possibly get (we only qualified for unsecured loans, so they had to be paid back starting immediately anyway, just like any other kind of loans).

 

Ds19 had a thousand-dollar award from the court system. He hasn't spent it yet. He won't qualify for merit or other help, either.

 

I expect to pay for most of my kids' college. There's just no way for them to pay the costs upfront, even with 3 or 4 summers of savings from summer jobs. (Ds never had a summer job anyway, until he graduated. Dd will probably have some savings, but will probably also get some merit aid.) And on the back end, after college? Well, maybe. We've told ds21 he has to get help for grad school if he gets his Master's. We figure he's an adult by then and should work it out himself.

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We do not have any money set aside for college.

 

The current assumption/expectation of parents footing the college bill is a foreign concept to me and dh--most likely due to neither one of us receiving any help/support from parents once we graduated from high school and turned 18. In addition, most of my high school friends received generous merit based scholarship and/or worked their way through college.

 

Why is there an expectation that parents, many nearing retirement themselves and/or dealing with aging parents, pay for college?

 

College expenses have changed.

 

When I attended a state college from 1984 - 1988, I paid $2100 - $2400/year in tuition. While working full time over the summer making minimum wage, I could make about $2000. A part time job in the school year covered the rest of my expenses.

 

If my dc were to attend the same university today, the tuition is $10,000/year. If they work full time over the summer they can earn about $3200.

 

Bottom line......they can't pay for it all themselves. I could earn over 90% of what I needed in a summer. They can only earn about 30%.

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We think it's our responsibility to pay. However, if we were destitute, then we just couldn't. I think parents should help their kids get started in life.

 

However, it really is wiser for kids not to assume help. If they assume that at 18, parents no longer have to feed them or clothe them or shelter them or educate them, the kids might take their opportunities in the years before that more seriously.

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College costs have risen much more than inflation would account for. I certainly would start to educate myself on scholarships, financial aid early on. Of three who have gone on, two pay full costs and one got about a 2/3 scholarship (for all costs) from the school. For the one who got a scholarship, I have noticed that while the expenses at his school have gone up, the scholarships have not gone up at all since he matriculated 5 years ago. Another son was looking at that school very briefly - he could not have afforded it, even getting the same scholarships.

 

Scholarships and instate tuition costs at public colleges vary greatly from state to state. My son who is a senior is looking at out of state publics who are giving out substantial scholarships (not many full rides, but half rides, or full tuition, etc.) to students with high scores and gpas. The public colleges in my state give out very very few merit scholarships. However, I am hearing rumblings at some of those schools that with the budget problems states are having, those generous scholarships to out of state students may have their days numbered.

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Good thing d had already decided against them because of the mosque on campus.
:confused:

 

This may not mean much to you, but being a Muslim reading about scholarships and coming across a comment like this is really deflating. Or maybe I am reading the comment wrong?

 

 

Lesley

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We do not have any money set aside for college.

 

The current assumption/expectation of parents footing the college bill is a foreign concept to me and dh--most likely due to neither one of us receiving any help/support from parents once we graduated from high school and turned 18. In addition, most of my high school friends received generous merit based scholarship and/or worked their way through college.

 

Why is there an expectation that parents, many nearing retirement themselves and/or dealing with aging parents, pay for college?

 

Well, because a college degree is VERY important in my family. Everyone in my family for 2 generations has had at the very least a bachelors and most have a masters or other advanced degrees like med school, PHD's etc. My parents taught me that my job was learning and going to school. I was allowed to work in the summer but not during the school year so that it didn't interfere with my studies. For dh and myself, we started saving when the each child was born by automatically putting money into a 529 or equivilent. There was an interesting thread somewhere ( in college) about how paying for college was a family culture type thing. Some families like yours put the emphasis on the student doing it all themselves. For us, paying for college is a priority. It is our family culture.

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Why is there an expectation that parents, many nearing retirement themselves and/or dealing with aging parents, pay for college?

 

Well, because a college degree is VERY important in my family. Everyone in my family for 2 generations has had at the very least a bachelors and most have a masters or other advanced degrees like med school, PHD's etc. My parents taught me that my job was learning and going to school. I was allowed to work in the summer but not during the school year so that it didn't interfere with my studies. For dh and myself, we started saving when the each child was born by automatically putting money into a 529 or equivilent. There was an interesting thread somewhere ( in college) about how paying for college was a family culture type thing. Some families like yours put the emphasis on the student doing it all themselves. For us, paying for college is a priority. It is our family culture.

 

Choirfarm answers your question for some of us. I believe it was Nan who used the term "family culture" in another thread. Many of us agreed.

 

Other posters have noted that college costs have escalated to the point where most students cannot pay their own way. In these discussions, there are posters who note that they paid their own way perhaps by living at home and attending a CC. Well that assumes that there is a good CC within driving distance, does it not? Not everyone has that. In fact, CC costs are rising so that they are not as inexpensive as they once were.

 

Some posters do not want their students to assume any debt, apparently not realizing that Stafford loans will be the first part of many financial aid packages. A student does not have to accept Staffords (which provide $5,500 - $7,500 annually); but this would imply that the student or his parents have savings for this piece of the pie.

 

My son entered college with a substantial nest egg because I saved gifts large and small, bought him some stock with an inheritance, etc. Growing up with a saving mentality, he saved his summer paychecks. He earned a substantial merit scholarship. Nonetheless there is a gap between scholarships and the annual bill due from the college. My son contributes to his expenses from his savings with my husband and me paying the rest.

 

Your family has a different educational ethos than ours. Further, you do not have to share my ethos, but I always warn parents that the FAFSA assumes you have been saving. We regularly have parents report that they are taken aback by this assumption that colleges and the federal government make.

Edited by Jane in NC
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As someone who doesn't come from a "family culture" of saving for your children's college, I appreciate threads like this. My son is young, but I've already been scoping options and watching how colleges have been affected by the economy.

 

What we've been able to save won't put a dent in even community college costs. We do have a small state university that is not much more than community college and would be a better investment.

 

The reality is he'll probably have to work some and get some loans to attend. Since we haven't been able to save I feel it's my job to be as educated as possible about the options, threads like this help.

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The best piece of college financial advice I have received was actually from someone on these boards. This is what I carried away from one of her posts from many many years ago. (I'm happy to give credit, but I'm afraid that I am doing a poor job paraphrasing what she said!)

 

"Invest in your kid's high school education. Quality high school classes can be expensive, but if they help your child get merit aid, they are a bargain in the long run!"

 

And I am so glad that we invested in our kids' education (both academic and extracurricular) rather than in stocks. For us, the payback was much better -- both from the financial and the parent perspective.

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Jane, I want to thank you for talking about saving for college here so often. Although we were saving, we were not being aggressive enough about it. Now, with two and a half years to spare, we have our oldest son's college savings complete for the schools he wants to attend and are well on out way with out second son, who is only in fourth grade. Your mantra to save, save, save was heard here and acted upon. So thank you and keep doing it! I hope you will reach others, too.

 

And Nan, as always, your advice about diverse students is appreciated and acted upon as well.

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Jane, I want to thank you for talking about saving for college here so often. Although we were saving, we were not being aggressive enough about it. Now, with two and a half years to spare, we have our oldest son's college savings complete for the schools he wants to attend and are well on out way with out second son, who is only in fourth grade. Your mantra to save, save, save was heard here and acted upon. So thank you and keep doing it! I hope you will reach others, too.

 

And Nan, as always, your advice about diverse students is appreciated and acted upon as well.

 

Caroline, I often feel like a broken record so your kind words are appreciated.

 

But I believe that you and I would also agree with Gwen that investing in a quality high school education (homeschooling for me, after-schooling for you) also bears great fruit. Possibly financial, but certainly in many other ways.

 

I had a great conversation with my first year college student last night. It is exciting to hear how the world is opening up for him. By the way, I caught him on Friday night in his dorm room where he was writing a paper. So much for the stereotype that college students party away their lives...

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Your family has a different educational ethos than ours. Further, you do not have to share my ethos, but I always warn parents that the FAFSA assumes you have been saving. We regularly have parents report that they are taken aback by this assumption that colleges and the federal government make.

 

I remember years and years ago, hearing a call-in show on NPR; folks were asking a financial adviser questions about investments and retirement and savings. One guy called in to ask when he should start saving for his daughter's college, was it too early? The expert asked how old the daughter was, and the dad said she was nine. The financial expert actually gasped. He recovered quickly and gave a very helpful, encouraging answer, to the effect that it's never too early, gently saying that many people start saving the moment their child is born. The he said something that has always stuck with me. (This was a Seattle radio station in the early 90s, when Starbucks was first opening stores.) "Give up one of your Starbucks lattes each week, and you'll save about ten dollars a month, which is $120 / year. That adds up." The point being that even a tiny amount saved each week is something.

 

I know many people don't have cushion for even a coffee treat; I sure didn't think we did at the time, when I heard that, but it niggled at the back of my mind, I realized finally that yes, I could afford to save $10 / month, which I did for years. I also, like Jane, saved gifts.

 

As I've mentioned before I work on a college campus, and I knew that my boys' college tuition would most likely be paid for, mostly or in full, by the tuition exchange program. Last week I learned that tuition will increase 4% next year at my son's college, and the tuition exchange scholarship will only go up $500, which is about 1%. My tiny little nest egg will cover the difference, almost, and my son has savings, too, from his summer jobs.

 

So even though we knew he'd have his tuition covered, we still saved, for room and board and unexpected expenses. In retrospect, I wish we'd saved more, but c'est la guerre.

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Caroline, I often feel like a broken record so your kind words are appreciated.

 

But I believe that you and I would also agree with Gwen that investing in a quality high school education (homeschooling for me, after-schooling for you) also bears great fruit. Possibly financial, but certainly in many other ways.

 

I had a great conversation with my first year college student last night. It is exciting to hear how the world is opening up for him. By the way, I caught him on Friday night in his dorm room where he was writing a paper. So much for the stereotype that college students party away their lives...

 

I do totally agree with Gwen, too. I am under the impression that investing in your children's educations is always a great idea.

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:confused:

 

This may not mean much to you, but being a Muslim reading about scholarships and coming across a comment like this is really deflating. Or maybe I am reading the comment wrong?

 

 

Lesley

 

I agree. I'm not Muslim but that was very shocking.

 

Something to keep in mind for people hoping for scholarships-here, at least, the college dropped almost all but sports scholarships because of our state's budget crisis. So always have a backup plan.

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Something else to keep in mind here, that just occurred to me. I haven't been keeping up with the boards lately, so maybe this has already been discussed? Several colleges across the nation are cutting tuition costs, Sewanee, for instance, by 10%.

 

http://news.sewanee.edu/academics/2011/02/16/tuition-reduction

 

Now, at first this looks like great news, right? And overdue! But it turns out, according to some faculty I've talked to, that what is actually happening is that merit aid is also being cut, so that colleges are no longer in the business of "buying" students. I don't know if this is the case specifically with Sewanee, but I know that this is part of what is going on with other schools, according to the faculty I've talked to (who are in the know because of their work on our college's tuition setting; we're facing huge financial "challenges").

 

I don't have all the information here, but this points to the fact that there are many, many complicating factors at work behind the scenes, especially in these times of economic uncertainty. It sure seems like we are moving in the direction of having a smaller and smaller middle class in this country, and the distribution of wealth is moving toward an hourglass shape, from a pyramid -- this distresses me. In my humble opinion, it is more important now than ever to support our children in whatever way we can, whether that is financial or just in our hours of investment in their learning, in pursuing an education.

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The best piece of college financial advice I have received was actually from someone on these boards. This is what I carried away from one of her posts from many many years ago. (I'm happy to give credit, but I'm afraid that I am doing a poor job paraphrasing what she said!)

 

"Invest in your kid's high school education. Quality high school classes can be expensive, but if they help your child get merit aid, they are a bargain in the long run!"

 

And I am so glad that we invested in our kids' education (both academic and extracurricular) rather than in stocks. For us, the payback was much better -- both from the financial and the parent perspective.

 

This is what "saved" us. We had saved for college, but not in safe enough investments (though they seemed safe at the time). We've literally lost a huge amount of money as well as having our actual income take a severe tumble. If it weren't for a combo of merit and need based aid, oldest wouldn't be going anywhere. Ditto that for middle son since our investments haven't recovered. Hopefully they'll recover somewhat for youngest son, but we're still going to work on keeping his academics up, up, up.

 

In hindsight, I wish we'd done more world traveling rather than invest - or saved the money in a mattress. But looking forward I never would have thought that to be a good idea. Nonetheless, I'm glad we took the money to have the experiences and extra curriculars we have (as a family or an individual) as that paid off far better than the savings. We did both and both is what I recommend. If one doesn't work out, the other might.

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Wow. I think whole hourglass shape thing very upsetting, too. It is exactly the opposite of what we want. It explains some of failure-to-launch, too. It is one thing to launch into a sort of starter-income lifestyle. It is another to launch into a not-being-able-to-make-ends-meet, never-will-be-able-to-make-ends-meet, hopelessly boring life. I would baulk at being launched, too, under those circumstances. I think a lot of failure-to-launch is unrealistic expectations (raised by the media?) and unpreparedness (public schools doing a bad job?) but from looking at my children's friends, many of whom have failed to launch despite not much interest in the media and an excellent public school education, I don't think this is the whole picture. It is very expensive to live in my area.

I agree that it is important to support our children. Extended living situations are becoming more and more common in my area. So is grandparents pay tuition at private school. So is parents give adult children their cars. So is vacationing with the grandparents. So is grandparents pay for piano lessons. And so is grandparents do child care as second parent works.

 

I know I've heard people here complain about it, but I, for one, am really happy about parents being able to put their children on their insurance until 26 years old. That is a good way of helping our young adults.

 

-Nan

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I'm in Florida and our daughter qualifies for one of our 2 state merit awards, Bright Futures. One pays 70% of tuition ,the other 100% (more of less; it's capped). DD will get the 100% tuition.

 

In addition, she has been offered $1000- a year from one particular state school, and $2500 from another state school The inferior state school is offering the larger scholarship.

 

We estimate paying appx $10K a year for dorms (VERY expensive and mandatory for freshman here in Florida) and books.

 

Absolutely no financial aid, everything is out of pocket for us. We have saved, but not enough. Thank goodness that child of ours is going to have a years' worth of credits (CLEP, duel-enrollment) by the time she enters college.

 

If there is any advice I would give a parent who has found it too late in the game to save much money, I would advise your child to CLEP as many courses as possible.

Edited by distancia
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The best piece of college financial advice I have received was actually from someone on these boards. This is what I carried away from one of her posts from many many years ago. (I'm happy to give credit, but I'm afraid that I am doing a poor job paraphrasing what she said!)

 

"Invest in your kid's high school education. Quality high school classes can be expensive, but if they help your child get merit aid, they are a bargain in the long run!"

 

And I am so glad that we invested in our kids' education (both academic and extracurricular) rather than in stocks. For us, the payback was much better -- both from the financial and the parent perspective.

 

:iagree: And, we're finding that it's not only merit aid. My son has found mentors who have information about little known scholarships, internship opportunities, and other helpful information.

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My husband and I both graduated from college with no scholarships and NO FAMILY SUPPORT. Personally I had two children as a divorced mother when I put myself through a private college and NO I DID NOT RECEIVE any public assistance nor did I receive any child support from my ex-husband. I did it by myself. I had a JOB. I worked around my classes. My husband put himself through a state university. He had a job, too.

 

Having done that, in part to prove to myself that I was a worthwhile intelligent person and to prove that also to those who seem to think that a person who does not have a college degree is somehow a lesser being than someone who does have a degree that I was indeed an intelligent worthwhile person......I have to say it was an enormus waste of time and money.

 

I aced my college classes because I had already learned the material through my natural curiousity and inclination to read books on diverse subjects. I did not attend a 'quality public school', I skipped eighty days of high school in my senior year and in any decently run school I would not have graduated. I spent those days in my local public library. I ended up paying a lot of money to that private college to have my knowledge 'validated' by the system. The little that I actually 'learned' I could have gotten from a reading list. Dynamic, interesting professors who led fascinating classroom discussions......well, my private college did not have very many of those.

 

Of my children who have chosen to pursue so-called higher education we have not provided assistance. This has not made any difference to the three who have chosen to attend college. Anyone can attend college. Anyone can budget themselves and their time to take at least one class a semester even with a family. Most can manage more than one class. What is not available to everyone is the cushy free ride of four years of little responsibility and handouts of pocket money. Yes, I had debt, my husband had debt...it made us take our choices more seriously knowing that we would be paying for them for several years. At least student loans are a more palatable form of debt than the kind of debt resulting from frivolous credit card purchases and other poor decisions.

 

I find it very difficult to understand why people seem to feel that college is 'out of reach' of the average person. It certainly was not the case for me or anyone in my family.

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I aced my college classes because I had already learned the material through my natural curiousity and inclination to read books on diverse subjects. I did not attend a 'quality public school', I skipped eighty days of high school in my senior year and in any decently run school I would not have graduated. I spent those days in my local public library. I ended up paying a lot of money to that private college to have my knowledge 'validated' by the system. The little that I actually 'learned' I could have gotten from a reading list. Dynamic, interesting professors who led fascinating classroom discussions......well, my private college did not have very many of those.

 

 

Let me just say that you and I had very different college experiences. While I am most appreciative of the math professors who guided me along in my chosen discipline (which I do not believe that I could have mastered if left to my own devices), I am also grateful to my English professors who led me in my studies of Shakespeare and John Donne, a political science professor who helped me to understand government beyond these borders, a wonderful philosophy professor with whom I discussed Plato and Kant, my German professor, my art history professor...I could go on and on singing the praises of my liberal arts education which I value highly. It is a pity that you were not able to connect with dynamic professors at your college.

 

We have entered this discussion before in which you have sung the praises of the endeavors of your children as entrepreneurs. I think that is great and I will not denigrate their decisions. Frankly I think it is mean spirited to denigrate mine.

 

Jane

 

P.S. Perhaps instead of criticizing those of us who value education, you could describe in a new thread the paths to entrepreneurship that your children have followed. This might be inspirational for those seeking this kind of information.

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Well to explain it simply, the college with the mosque was not a secular school. It was supposedly a Christian college. Now having a room set aside for Muslim worship or a time at the chapel for a Muslim service wouldn't have been an issue. But for a Christian college to have a Mosque is just not something we see as okay. None of her other colleges, which all do have Muslims attending, have a mosque on campus.

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Well to explain it simply, the college with the mosque was not a secular school. It was supposedly a Christian college. Now having a room set aside for Muslim worship or a time at the chapel for a Muslim service wouldn't have been an issue. But for a Christian college to have a Mosque is just not something we see as okay. None of her other colleges, which all do have Muslims attending, have a mosque on campus.

 

Why is that bad, though? Wouldn't it be a good thing to show support that they were so included, just like it would be nice for a Christian chapel in any other college? What if it was a synagogue?

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I appreciate those that have chimed in. I do feel the need to say that my 'family culture' regarding parental monies for college has absolutely nothing to do with how much I 'value' or do not value education.

 

This sentiment was not directly expressed in this thread, although I do feel it was implied.

 

Additional training/eduction after high school is a *must* in our family as well as yours--I just disagree with the assumption that parents MUST contribute/take out loans in order for that to happen.

 

I would also like to clarify that dh and I will help our children, we just will not be going into debt to do so.

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Thea, that is a good point. We need to be careful not to lump "parents help" together with "college expected". There are families in which it is normal for children to pay for college themselves, families in which the parents help, families in which college is optional, and families in which college is not considered optional. These all combine into four different combinations, not two. And then there are many flavours of family culture in between. : )

-Nan

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Additional training/eduction after high school is a *must* in our family as well as yours--I just disagree with the assumption that parents MUST contribute/take out loans in order for that to happen.

 

 

 

Jane the Broken Record here.

 

Suppose your child's EFC (Expected Family Contribution) from the FAFSA is $15,000. Suppose your child does not receive merit aid to cover this. How does your child pay for college?

 

Remember this is not Jane's assumption that your family can contribute $15K. This is the federal government's assumption. Your child's college will have their own formula which may be even more than $15K.

 

The days of a child claiming independence from the parent for the sake of college finances are long gone. I just cannot figure out how a family can get around this. It is not a matter of whether you agree or disagree with the assumption that the feds and the colleges make.

 

Jane

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Wow. I think whole hourglass shape thing very upsetting, too. It is exactly the opposite of what we want. It explains some of failure-to-launch, too. It is one thing to launch into a sort of starter-income lifestyle. It is another to launch into a not-being-able-to-make-ends-meet, never-will-be-able-to-make-ends-meet, hopelessly boring life. I would baulk at being launched, too, under those circumstances. I think a lot of failure-to-launch is unrealistic expectations (raised by the media?) and unpreparedness (public schools doing a bad job?) but from looking at my children's friends, many of whom have failed to launch despite not much interest in the media and an excellent public school education, I don't think this is the whole picture. It is very expensive to live in my area.

I agree that it is important to support our children. Extended living situations are becoming more and more common in my area. So is grandparents pay tuition at private school. So is parents give adult children their cars. So is vacationing with the grandparents. So is grandparents pay for piano lessons. And so is grandparents do child care as second parent works.

 

I know I've heard people here complain about it, but I, for one, am really happy about parents being able to put their children on their insurance until 26 years old. That is a good way of helping our young adults.

 

-Nan

 

Don't you think people are waking up to this, Nan? I think people all over the country are realizing that we are living, more and more, in a two-tier society, and the few that are left in the middle are being pushed into the bottom tier.

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