Spin off of Am I dreaming- How many students in college with little or no scholarship

[Nan in Mass]

Sigh. I don't know if they are waking up. I remember everyone saying the same thing when I was getting out of college and working, and when we were getting married.

-Nan

 

PS - I like your quote.

[anissarobert]

I was the first in my family to attend college and my parents did help. I always hoped to help my dd, but this economy has floored us. We have been living at the poverty level for several years, and have nothing saved. I can probably help with living and travel expenses, but that will be it. Not everyone can save to help their kids go to school.

 

I'm not sue how the financial aid calculators work, but every time I enter this year's data, it says our expected contribution is $0. Does anyone know what that will mean to my dd?

[Renee in NC]

We do not have any money set aside for college.

 

The current assumption/expectation of parents footing the college bill is a foreign concept to me and dh--most likely due to neither one of us receiving any help/support from parents once we graduated from high school and turned 18. In addition, most of my high school friends received generous merit based scholarship and/or worked their way through college.

 

Why is there an expectation that parents, many nearing retirement themselves and/or dealing with aging parents, pay for college?

 

Because college costs have skyrocketed. In 1995, I went to a 4 year school on a full tuition scholarship. I had to get loans to pay for living expenses and daycare (I had a 2 year old.) The tuition at the time was $10K per year. Adjusted for inflation, that $10K would be $14K today. The tuition at that same school today? Just over $22K!

 

Tuition at UNC-Chapel Hill is $6,666 - this does not include books, room, or board. At $8 an hour, it will take the student 26 weeks per year of full-time work to pay for tuition (factoring in taxes) - it couldn't be earned in the summer. Then, they have to pay for room and board (somewhere, even if not on campus) and books. A student would have to work full-time the other 26 weeks of the year as well to pay for that. However, that wouldn't be enough to live on (after books there would be about $500 a month left.)

 

So, if working full-time and going to school won't pay the costs, how is a student supposed to do it? (I am assuming no Pell Grant or other need-based aid.) They have to rely on parents, take out loans, join the military, etc.

 

ETA: I see where someone pointed out that the student could go to school part-time while working full-time. Yes, they could. At $8 an hour, they would net about $1100 a month. With careful budgeting and planning, they could probably come out okay by taking 1 class per semester. Assuming summer sessions, they would be done with school in 8 years or so.

 

I am increasingly frustrated with college costs and the perceived "need" for the degree.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Renee in FL

[Renee in NC]

I was the first in my family to attend college and my parents did help. I always hoped to help my dd, but this economy has floored us. We have been living at the poverty level for several years, and have nothing saved. I can probably help with living and travel expenses, but that will be it. Not everyone can save to help their kids go to school.

 

I'm not sue how the financial aid calculators work, but every time I enter this year's data, it says our expected contribution is $0. Does anyone know what that will mean to my dd?

 

She'll get Pell Grant, which is something like $4750 per year? And there are other need-based programs as well.

[jld]

Thanks. I was shocked to read a few months ago that 53 cents of every dollar paid in taxes goes to the military. Maybe this is inaccurate?

 

I think people are realizing what has been going on over the last 30-40 years, but it has taken hits to them personally to be willing to look at it. I hope there will be more openness and curiosity now into looking honestly at the income gains distribution over the last few decades, and how it has hurt all but the wealthy. Unfortunately, people don't usually look at these things until they are hit in the stomach by them.

 

I think Jane's frustration is that there are some parents who could afford to help their kids, but for philosophical reasons, just won't. There are also parents who think the economic situation for kids is the same as it was when they were kids 30 years ago. It isn't. I would go a step further and say that the idea of saving birthday and Christmas money over 18 years, while a nice idea, and a start, may not amount to much (Remember the parent on the general board who did that, and it added up to 4 or 5k? That's something, but not much in comparison to the cost of even a year of college.). People now accept college debt as inevitable (did you see the thread on that recently -- people seemingly shrugging their shoulders and saying it was just like another mortgage payment).

 

The system needs an overhaul. People need to get real about economic issues, and they will, more and more, if current trends continue.

 

I really feel sorry for folks who want to help their kids, but just can't. Life is so unfair, and no one seems to care, or at least be willing to acknowledge it. People blame people for things beyond their control, and credit people for gifts they were often just born with. And so it goes.

[Thea]

Jane the Broken Record here.

 

Suppose your child's EFC (Expected Family Contribution) from the FAFSA is $15,000. Suppose your child does not receive merit aid to cover this. How does your child pay for college?

 

Remember this is not Jane's assumption that your family can contribute $15K. This is the federal government's assumption. Your child's college will have their own formula which may be even more than $15K.

 

The days of a child claiming independence from the parent for the sake of college finances are long gone. I just cannot figure out how a family can get around this. It is not a matter of whether you agree or disagree with the assumption that the feds and the colleges make.

 

Jane

 

Just because the government indicates that *we* can afford to contribute X amount (and *expect* us to do this-which is my main beef with the whole gig), does not make it so. It does not automatically translate to dh and I going into to debt to cover the EFC.

 

 

 

Our oldest worked full time for three years after high school before applying to college. Some of that he lived someplace else. He had his own car insurance. He had his own health insurance. He was most annoyed to discover that he was not considered independent.

-Nan

 

I encountered this ad nauseum-- especially between the ages of 18 and 21. I lived in CA, while my newly single mother lived with my younger siblings in NJ. I was truly on my own. It was frustrating.

[Thea]

Thanks. I was shocked to read a few months ago that 53 cents of every dollar paid in taxes goes to the military. Maybe this is inaccurate?

 

I think people are realizing what has been going on over the last 30-40 years, but it has taken hits to them personally to be willing to look at it. I hope there will be more openness and curiosity now into looking honestly at the income gains distribution over the last few decades, and how it has hurt all but the wealthy. Unfortunately, people don't usually look at these things until they are hit in the stomach by them.

 

I think Jane's frustration is that there are some parents who could afford to help their kids, but for philosophical reasons, just won't. There are also parents who think the economic situation for kids is the same as it was when they were kids 30 years ago. It isn't. I would go a step further and say that the idea of saving birthday and Christmas money over 18 years, while a nice idea, and a start, may not amount to much (Remember the parent on the general board who did that, and it added up to 4 or 5k? That's something, but not much in comparison to the cost of even a year of college.). People now accept college debt as inevitable (did you see the thread on that recently -- people seemingly shrugging their shoulders and saying it was just like another mortgage payment).

 

The system needs an overhaul. People need to get real about economic issues, and they will, more and more, if current trends continue.

 

I really feel sorry for folks who want to help their kids, but just can't. Life is so unfair, and no one seems to care, or at least be willing to acknowledge it. People blame people for things beyond their control, and credit people for gifts they were often just born with. And so it goes.

 

Again--not being willing to go into debt does not translate into not willing to help. We are willing to help, but we cannot afford to completely foot the bill.

 

I missed that thread, so I apologize if this seems a re hashing.

[Susan in IL]

The school ds#1 attends gave strict merit aid amounts based on ACT score. Get this score, get this much, get between x and y, get this much, etc. There were other scholarships but they were very focused, like which county or school or whatever, you came from. He qualified for none of them.

 

Ds#2 has been accepted to 2 schools and waiting on the third. One is like ds#1's school and he received the highest merit award (made the private way cheaper than the state flagship). One gave nothing in merit aid although it is roughly the same as the school that did give him merit money. We won't find out about school 3 until March/April. There is no chance of him attending school 3 no matter how much he wants to go there unless they offer over 50% in merit aid. (This school costs over $50K). He know the facts and also knows he is not at the top of the heap but a good candidate.

 

Both dh and myself put ourselves though college with little support from family. It was different back in the 70's when we graduated. Tuition only at the local state u was -- $252 a semester. Today it is $6200 a semester and the fees are huge!

 

We have saved from the day they were born and bought college bonds that mature each year they are in school. We saved our money since we know we would not qualify for need based aid. Is it enough? NOPE. Since our investments, like everyones, took a hit, so did what we thought would be college money. We are nearing retirement and will not take out PLUS loans at this stage of our lives. We will help ds2 as much as we did for ds1.

[jld]

If you're interested in income inequality (and you should be ;)), there's a good article on it right now in Mother Jones magazine (just google "It's the Inequality, Stupid").

[jld]

Again--not being willing to go into debt does not translate into not willing to help. We are willing to help, but we cannot afford to completely foot the bill.

 

I missed that thread, so I apologize if this seems a re hashing.

 

I don't know how much we will be able to pay, either, past undergrad. Dh thinks we should borrow for dd's med school, but I don't feel very comfortable with that, and dd doesn't, either.

[Jane in NC]

Just because the government indicates that *we* can afford to contribute X amount (and *expect* us to do this-which is my main beef with the whole gig), does not make it so. It does not automatically translate to dh and I going into to debt to cover the EFC.

 

 

 

I am not asking you to take on debt. I am simply trying to understand your position.

 

We have regular discussions on funding college educations on these boards. There are many parents who express frustration when they learn what their EFC is--hence my mantra to save, save, save from any early age. I am trying to help parents.

 

Not agreeing with the government's FAFSA formula does not erase the EFC. It is what it is. I am trying to understand how parents who say they do not accept the EFC negotiate with the college. How do parents who say they will not fund a child's education expect their children to earn sufficient funds as a teenager to pay? I am not asking these questions to be argumentative. I am trying to understand how a philosophical position plays out in pragmatic terms.

 

I agree with your position of not assuming debt which is why we saved for my son's education from the time of his birth. But not everyone on these boards is in a position to save regularly.

 

I see you have a 17 year old. Practical ideas on how your child is paying for her college education may assist others who are struggling.

 

Be well,

Jane

Edited February 27, 2011 by Jane in NC

[anissarobert]

She'll get Pell Grant, which is something like $4750 per year? And there are other need-based programs as well.

 

Thanks Renee. I am trying to figure this college stuff out!

[Tarreymere]

ETA: I see where someone pointed out that the student could go to school part-time while working full-time. Yes, they could. At $8 an hour, they would net about $1100 a month. With careful budgeting and planning, they could probably come out okay by taking 1 class per semester. Assuming summer sessions, they would be done with school in 8 years or so.

 

I am increasingly frustrated with college costs and the perceived "need" for the degree.

 

I was a single mom of two on my own with no child support, no help from my family at all and no public assistance, working full time as a home health aide and going to school full time and taking on student loans. I completed my undergrad degree in five years, including summer sessions, without straining while paying rent, daycare, groceries, utilities, car expenses,ect. It is not unrealistic. It is also not easy, but certainly doable. Would I do it again knowing what I know now? No. I am certainly past needing a degree to validate myself as an intelligent human being and I didn't learn anything or find myself exposed to anything valuable enough to justify the expense.

 

About all I got was my 'ticket punched', thus enabling me to offer an opinion on this subject, and a student loan repayment booklet.

[J-rap]

My parents paid for my college education, but my husband took out loans for his. We were married right after college, and it seemed like we were paying his college loans forever; it seemed to take such a big chunk out of our paycheck each month! We didn't want our children to have to begin their adult lives with such big loans, if possible. At the same time, we didn't want them not feeling any responsibility at all.

 

Our son went to school in NYC; we agreed to pay all of his tuition, but he had to pay his own room and board. He lived in a boarding house instead of a school dorm, because it was about 1/3 the cost. He worked about 20 hours/week outside of class, and was one of only a handful of students at his school who worked more than a few hours/week. He paid for his own food and lodging, for the most part.

 

Our oldest daughter goes to school in Costa Rica, which is much cheaper! It is about 1/4 the cost of a similar type school here. She had to take a Spanish fluency test, but she passed; all of her classes are in Spanish, but she loves it. We pay for her tuition, but she worked hard during the summer (and will return to work this summer, too), to earn spending money, including money for groceries, bus, etc.

 

Our next oldest daughter got scholarships to cover about 60% of tuition at a private school. We pay the rest, and pay for her small meal plan, too. However, she is living at her grandmother's home (about a mile away from school) to save on living expenses. She also has a part-time job to earn her own spending money -- money for going out, clothing, extra school expenses, etc.

[Tarreymere]

Wow. I think whole hourglass shape thing very upsetting, too. It is exactly the opposite of what we want. It explains some of failure-to-launch, too. It is one thing to launch into a sort of starter-income lifestyle. It is another to launch into a not-being-able-to-make-ends-meet, never-will-be-able-to-make-ends-meet, hopelessly boring life. I would baulk at being launched, too, under those circumstances. I think a lot of failure-to-launch is unrealistic expectations (raised by the media?) and unpreparedness (public schools doing a bad job?) but from looking at my children's friends, many of whom have failed to launch despite not much interest in the media and an excellent public school education, I don't think this is the whole picture. It is very expensive to live in my area.

I agree that it is important to support our children. Extended living situations are becoming more and more common in my area. So is grandparents pay tuition at private school. So is parents give adult children their cars. So is vacationing with the grandparents. So is grandparents pay for piano lessons. And so is grandparents do child care as second parent works.

 

I know I've heard people here complain about it, but I, for one, am really happy about parents being able to put their children on their insurance until 26 years old. That is a good way of helping our young adults.

 

-Nan

 

LOL, I have a cure for 'failure to launch'! A swift kick in the backside out the front door!

 

As for the 'hopelessly boring life' and the 'not-being-able-to-make-ends-meet' lifestyle, well I think that is up to the individual living that life to make whatever changes he or she needs to make. One can live quite happily on a very frugal income if the trade-off is important to that person (a case in point being the decision in our own family to have an adult at home with the children, which cut our income in half). A 'boring life' is the responsiblity of the individual living that life to deal with, not the parent.

 

I sincerely hope that the majority of young adults are not such fragile hothouse flowers as some parents seem to think!

[Tarreymere]

Let me just say that you and I had very different college experiences. While I am most appreciative of the math professors who guided me along in my chosen discipline (which I do not believe that I could have mastered if left to my own devices), I am also grateful to my English professors who led me in my studies of Shakespeare and John Donne, a political science professor who helped me to understand government beyond these borders, a wonderful philosophy professor with whom I discussed Plato and Kant, my German professor, my art history professor...I could go on and on singing the praises of my liberal arts education which I value highly. It is a pity that you were not able to connect with dynamic professors at your college.

 

We have entered this discussion before in which you have sung the praises of the endeavors of your children as entrepreneurs. I think that is great and I will not denigrate their decisions. Frankly I think it is mean spirited to denigrate mine.

 

Jane

 

P.S. Perhaps instead of criticizing those of us who value education, you could describe in a new thread the paths to entrepreneurship that your children have followed. This might be inspirational for those seeking this kind of information.

 

I don't mean to be mean-spirited, and I don't really care about your decisions regarding your own children. I just would like to point out that it is perfectly possible for an intelligent adult to not expect to attend college as a matter of course, and that said adult does not therefore automatically forfeit a comfortable and interesting life. Quite on the contrary, I have found a solid, ongoing bias on this board toward attending college as a norm, and the blatant assumption that those adults who do not attend college are not educated, are not intelligent, or are doomed to a 'boring life' of 'not-being-able-to-make-ends-meet' as another poster stated. This is not true, and I am stating it to make a point to those who worry about paying for college that maybe there is an alternative.

 

I have stated that college was not interesting or challenging for me. It was not helpful to me. You turned that into the assumption that I do not value education, which is very interesting and speaks to the bias on this board. I found the liberal arts courses in philosophy and history and the others to be mere superficial survey courses. I had no interest in 'learning' philosophy from a textbook with a sanitized biography of the philosopher and a few excerpts. Isn't this the same arguement many of you use to complain about the textbooks used in public schools? Why is it then okay to use them in college? How many original works were you required to read by your philosophy professor? In my college we didn't have to read a single one. That is not education as far as I am concerned, it was the same lecture and repeat for the test that I endured in public school.

 

I am actually appalled that so many of you find it shocking to even consider an alternative to college when you have been open-minded enough to choose an alternative to public school. I think that you underestimate what your own children are capable of. I think that whether you pay for college or not your children have the same potential to have an interesting, challenging, fulfilling and comfortable life. It is not necessary to attend college to become educated. I would offer that thought to those who are concerned about their financial inability to offer their children the opportunities they feel are expected of them.

 

I don't denigrate those who choose to attend college, but I have often been denigrated by those who chose college.

[Jane in NC]

Quite on the contrary, I have found a solid, ongoing bias on this board toward attending college as a norm...

 

This is the College Board. Too much to assume that college is what we want to discuss here?

 

How many original works were you required to read by your philosophy professor? In my college we didn't have to read a single one. That is not education as far as I am concerned, it was the same lecture and repeat for the test that I endured in public school.

 

 

 

Perhaps the argument here is not that all colleges are mundane, but that some are or that some professors are. I read original works in my philosophy classes in college.

 

I am actually appalled that so many of you find it shocking to even consider an alternative to college when you have been open-minded enough to choose an alternative to public school. I think that you underestimate what your own children are capable of. I think that whether you pay for college or not your children have the same potential to have an interesting, challenging, fulfilling and comfortable life. It is not necessary to attend college to become educated. I would offer that thought to those who are concerned about their financial inability to offer their children the opportunities they feel are expected of them.

 

I don't denigrate those who choose to attend college, but I have often been denigrated by those who chose college.

 

Frankly I do not find it "shocking" to consider options outside of college which is clearly not the right fit for all students. But when people come to the college board for information on the process, finances, etc., why is your answer to avoid college?

 

Further, as posters have stated previously, many employers now want to see degrees. In an older thread, you questioned the validity of their assumptions. While this question may merit philosophical discussion, it does not change the reality that many employees only hire people with degrees. As I recall that previous conversation, you then suggested the entrepreneurial life as a better choice. I think you may be on to something for some people, hence I have asked you to elucidate in another thread how you cultivate this option. Just saying Bill Gates did not graduate from college is not helpful in the discussion.

 

Jane

[choirfarm]

 

Frankly I do not find it "shocking" to consider options outside of college which is clearly not the right fit for all students. But when people come to the college board for information on the process, finances, etc., why is your answer to avoid college?

 

\.

 

Jane

Yep, I completely understand your point that college is not for everyone. Fine. But this is a college board and I shouldn't get bashed for choosing college for my children on this board!!! Honestly, I don't care whether you have a degree or not. I, personally think it is important for my kids. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Oh this is for Rainefox not Jane btsw.

[creekland]

This is the College Board. Too much to assume that college is what we want to discuss here?

 

 

 

Perhaps the argument here is not that all colleges are mundane, but that some are or that some professors are. I read original works in my philosophy classes in college.

 

 

 

Frankly I do not find it "shocking" to consider options outside of college which is clearly not the right fit for all students. But when people come to the college board for information on the process, finances, etc., why is your answer to avoid college?

 

Further, as posters have stated previously, many employers now want to see degrees. In an older thread, you questioned the validity of their assumptions. While this question may merit philosophical discussion, it does not change the reality that many employees only hire people with degrees. As I recall that previous conversation, you then suggested the entrepreneurial life as a better choice. I think you may be on to something for some people, hence I have asked you to elucidate in another thread how you cultivate this option. Just saying Bill Gates did not graduate from college is not helpful in the discussion.

 

Jane

 

:iagree:

 

I seriously don't think my oldest could become a microfinance manager anywhere without his degree(s) considering a potential employer is the one that told him what type of degree he needed.

 

I'm pretty positive my doctor wannabe can't get into any med school without a degree first.

 

My youngest wants ecology at this point. I doubt he will get far without a degree. He will absolutely love a nice college with a great ecology program (which I'll have to find - I've done absolute no research in that area yet).

 

For the entrepreneurial types who can fund themselves, yes, I think one can do things without a degree (though I never have found a degree to be a hindrance unless one picks a school well beyond their means and has oodles of debt). For chefs, musicians, artists and similar I would think a degree isn't all that needed. Ditto that for many of the service industries, but I've personally seen where not having a degree has hindered advancement for many.

 

My nephew never was or will be college material, but he's a good mechanic. Without a degree or self-funding he won't move up beyond mechanic, but you know what? Owning his own business wouldn't work out well either in his case - partially for the same reasons he will never be college material. And I still love him. It doesn't change his worth in my eyes one bit. If one of my sons were similarly capable I'd be proud if they went that route, but it doesn't mean I'm aiming my boys that way when their talents lie elsewhere. Everyone needs to find their niche.

 

It seems to me that Rainefox ended up in a poor (educationally) college and/or with less than stellar profs. This is a big reason why I'm doing a bit of research myself before my boys apply in various places. College A is not the same as College B when it comes to experience or education.

 

And if my boys finish college and never use their degrees for whatever reason? I'm still glad they got them and know they will still be glad they went. That may be a family culture thingy. Unless my grandkids aren't educationally able to go to college, I expect they will be going - and enjoying it - too. ;)

[TravelingChris]

Well my older daughter wants to be a prosecutor (needs college and then law school) and my younger wants to be an engineer (minimum of college).

[Storm Bay]

We do not have any money set aside for college.

 

The current assumption/expectation of parents footing the college bill is a foreign concept to me and dh

Why is there an expectation that parents, many nearing retirement themselves and/or dealing with aging parents, pay for college?

 

Why? Because their parents paid for theirs, and the parents' parents paid for the parents', and so on back through time. -Nan

 

Thea, that is a good point. We need to be careful not to lump "parents help" together with "college expected". There are families in which it is normal for children to pay for college themselves, families in which the parents help, families in which college is optional, and families in which college is not considered optional. These all combine into four different combinations, not two. And then there are many flavours of family culture in between. : )

-Nan

 

Right. My dad had to pay his way and had debt (he went to Med School, too), but not like it would be now & it was in Canada. His dad couldn't afford it, and even had to redo his university in Canada due to lack of reciprocity (and it took him years, since he did all but the last year by correspondence--they required on year on campus, so he did his last year when my dad did his first.) His kid brother got a full ride scholarship, and then was paid for all graduate school.

 

My parents could afford to pay back when I went, but the deal was that we had to work every summer and pay what we could with their help. However, different cousins had different experiences, and one even had to pay her own way because her parents would only pay if she went to the university of their choice. Dh and I can't afford to pay and weren't able to save (long, long story, and it wasn't something we thought of when I was in my 20s in Canada, because it wasn't so expensive) but we can let them live at home. We live in easy driving distance of a lot of colleges & universities, so that will help.

 

Dh, otoh, went on social security (his dad died when he was 16) to a state school (Rutgers, so it's a good one).

[elegantlion]

My dh and I do not have college degrees. My dh has owned his own business for many years, some good years some not.

 

Our plan for ds to attend college is one that he will have more options open to him. Not having a degree in this day limits options.

 

My last job was in underwriting. Without a college degree I did not have the title as those with one. Guess what I did the same work for less money and a tad less responsibility. I topped out at the job in 5 years, I could not advance without a degree, period.

 

Aside from the requirement of most careers to have a degree I'm hoping college will be a time to network and explore his options and discover what he truly wants to be, not what he is limited to, as dh has felt many times.

 

You can work hard without a college degree, no doubt about it. But I sometimes regret not pushing myself to work full time and go to school as there were no opening for entry level archaeologists in my area. :tongue_smilie: With a degree I'd probably still be sitting in some dig being fascinated by finding ancient spoons or the like.

 

So yes my son will attend college and get a degree of some sort. If afterward he wants work for himself and sell spoons (although he'd probably sell sporks), more power to him, but he'll make a choice to do so, not have it be his only option.

[Storm Bay]

My last job was in underwriting. Without a college degree I did not have the title as those with one. Guess what I did the same work for less money and a tad less responsibility. I topped out at the job in 5 years, I could not advance without a degree, period.

 

 

This is so true, and I think it stinks. Yes, there are jobs that require a degree, and yes, there are great reasons to get a degree that have nothing to do with getting a job at all if you can afford it. However, if the work is the same calibre, etc, this type of ceiling is ridiculous, IMO. It is also necessary to get through paper screening. My first post univ job was one that didn't require a degree, but it was hard to get in the door without one. It's worse now.

[Nicole M]

This thread has taken some interesting, if predictable, turns.

 

Rainefox, it's no wonder you didn't have a great college experience! Sheesh. That is a lot of pressure, working, raising children alone; and going into it with the attitude that you were getting a piece of paper can't have set you up to be open to all of what college can offer.

 

I was academically prepared for college, but my family was experiencing severe trauma about the time I left for school. My family moved right before my senior year of high school; I was sent to a boarding school, and that year my siblings were shuttled between my dad and mom's homes, in Hawaii and Connecticut, respectively. During my first semester in college my sister ran away from home, was assaulted and left for dead, found, hospitalized, sent home, then a month later tried to commit suicide, then became a drug addict, probably to self-medicate. Um. Can you say "distracting?"

 

My family had gobs of money, so my private education was totally paid for. In retrospect, yes, I realize that I led a life of privilege, but the trauma prevented me from really being able to reach out and grasp, really take advantage of what college is. Sure, I got A's and enjoyed my professors; on paper, I was a success. But I did not make connections with my peers. On graduation day, in the bathroom I ran into a woman who'd been my closest friend my freshman year, and I realized I had no actual friends. Ouch.

 

So. I approach my boys' educations with an eye toward giving them the stability and emotional tools as well as the academic tools to succeed not just in college, but in whatever they choose to do. My oldest is at a small liberal arts college and gets it. His grades are adequate, above average, but not all A's. He is on committees, he has friends, he plays intramural sports, has a radio program, attends every guest lecture, every concert, every play he can. He washes dishes, too. He sings in the choir, he takes private piano and voice lessons, and even (gasp!) has a girlfriend. He gets it. He is thinking about majors, about summer internships, about careers and the wider world. I did not.

 

College isn't right for everyone, but it's right for my oldest, and he has the tools to engage, deeply engage. I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I went to college. (In fact, I'm a bit of a rabble-rouser on the campus where I work, because the facilities and dining staff are underpaid and under-appreciated, which gets my gall. The woman who empties the trash in my office deserves and gets from me just as much respect as the professors with terminal degrees.) If my youngest wants to go to college, then, yes, it is my responsibility to help him be successful.

 

In terms of the economy, it also galls me to see the middle class roll over and die. I want us to fight for the right of our children to attend college if they choose. To see parents limit our children's options by closing the door to a four-year college, either intentionally or unintentionally, really gets my knickers in a twist. I feel like there is something larger at stake here, though I can't put my finger on it. (I am distracted because I have to bake something for the reception after my son's piano recital this afternoon, and find and iron a shirt that has sleeves long enough for him.)

 

Maybe you get where I'm going with this? That it's not just about scholarships and grades and testing? There's the big picture, the direction our economy in this country is going (loved that Mother Jones article, btw). But, it's about tools for successfully navigating our lives, and especially about finding delight in whatever we do. My job is really somewhat boring. Many, many of us have boring jobs. Many, many of our children will have boring jobs. So how do we find delight, meaning? I'm reading Moby-Dick with my son this week, and I adore it. (Oh, Herman, where have you been all my life?!) Education is about more than getting into the right college, though that is an appropriate thing to discuss on the college board, about more than getting the "right" job, if such a thing exists.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Nicole M

[Kimm in WA]

Mommymilkies,

What state are you in?

Kimm in WA

[Colleen in NS]

This is the College Board. Too much to assume that college is what we want to discuss here?

 

:lol:

 

My dh and I do not have college degrees. My dh has owned his own business for many years, some good years some not.

 

Our plan for ds to attend college is one that he will have more options open to him. Not having a degree in this day limits options.

 

...I'm hoping college will be a time to network and explore his options and discover what he truly wants to be, not what he is limited to, as dh has felt many times.

 

You can work hard without a college degree, no doubt about it. But I sometimes regret not pushing myself to work full time and go to school...

 

So yes my son will attend college and get a degree of some sort. If afterward he wants work for himself and sell spoons (although he'd probably sell sporks), more power to him, but he'll make a choice to do so, not have it be his only option.

 

This is pretty much my story, too. While I've done a darn good job being the Frugal Queen here on a below-poverty level income for YEARS, it is EXHAUSTING and I am getting sick of it. Sure, I have learned a lot, become really creative, read a lot of books, forced myself how to learn to teach my kids on little resources, and have had some kind outside help. But I really hope to launch my kids into a different experience with more options, closer to their early adult years than in their 40s or 50s. They'll have the frugal skills I've learned, but with hopefully more options. And then, *I* want to go to university.

 

Colleen (who is thinking of starting a thread asking specifically about Canadian parents' experiences with all this getting-into-and-paying-for-university business, because the whole cost thing is freaking me out)

[readwithem]

By the way, I caught him on Friday night in his dorm room where he was writing a paper. So much for the stereotype that college students party away their lives...

 

Jane -

 

Your ds isn't alone. My dd is still surprised every Sunday night when her hall goes into panic mode because people have played all weekend. It's as if they're surprised that Monday morning will always follow Sunday (and Saturday and Friday) night.....

[readwithem]

Jane the Broken Record here.

 

Suppose your child's EFC (Expected Family Contribution) from the FAFSA is $15,000. Suppose your child does not receive merit aid to cover this. How does your child pay for college?

 

Remember this is not Jane's assumption that your family can contribute $15K. This is the federal government's assumption. Your child's college will have their own formula which may be even more than $15K.

 

The days of a child claiming independence from the parent for the sake of college finances are long gone. I just cannot figure out how a family can get around this. It is not a matter of whether you agree or disagree with the assumption that the feds and the colleges make.

 

Jane

 

I'll join your broken record :) (maybe we can make it a duet!) :grouphug:

 

A common theme on College Confidential is "Love thy safety." A safety is a school where your child has 75% or more chance of being accepted *and* a school which you and your family can afford. To find financial safeties, you can look for schools where your child's scores and grades are in the upper 25% of accepted students for that school.

 

ETA not meaning to direct this toward Jane, just to the thread in general.

Edited March 1, 2011 by readwithem

[Nan in Mass]

bumping to keep all the how-to-pay-for-college posts together for a bit