Ok, so I am finally absolutely convinced Americans are going to face VERY rough times

[MariannNOVA]

I'm thinking you mean on hand, not in the bank. If, God forbid, another 9/11 type crisis were to happen how much cash do you think is reasonable?

 

Yes, definitely, I meant on hand -- but it's good of you to clarify.

 

On 9/11, dh and the person he was going to drive out of DC with so they could get home before roads were closed, went into a police station to use an ATM machine. They were told by the Desk Sargeant that the Police Station was closed and they should go away.:glare:

 

So, yes, I definitely mean $$$$ in one's hot little hand.;)

 

And, Chuckie -- pls comment here:

 

http://pleasedonteatthedaisies-mariann.blogspot.com/

[FaithManor]

Chiguirre,

 

Your parents bought krugerrands too? Mine did that big time. But, dad's business went through a very big crisis shortly after they did this but before most of the value was lost so at least they didn't lose their shirts!

 

I don't recommend anyone speculate in the gold and silver market unless you really know what you are doing and plan on trading in the short term not the long. We've done very well speculating on silver, but dh did a massive ton of research and we got our hands on an old coin collection that had a serious amount of silver in it for basically nothing more than face value. The auctioneer didn't have a clue what he was auctioning off and neither did the rest of the crowd....no real numismatic people in our rural area either so we didn't have much competition at bid time. That sure has paid off!

 

Where were you when the 100% inflation hit? Some African nations have experienced this. I hate to think what it is like for the people.

 

Faith

[Renee in NC]

I'm a very ordinary person, but I've lived through bouts of 100+% annual inflation, civil unrest, a 2 month national strike, 2.5 weeks without electricity, mudslides and hurricanes. Honestly, you'll be fine just by keeping abreast of what's going on around you and making sure you keep at least a month of food and necessities on hand. Make sure you have enough water and gas on hand and that your food is edible without cooking or that you have a campstove. It's rare that a crisis strikes without any prior warning or buildup (except for earthquakes).

 

I personally try to make sure that we could eat most of our frozen food within a week during hurricane season because I hate tossing stuff. In the winter, I stock up more. We try to diversify our savings and we haven't bought gold. I remember the early 80s gold craze and my parents' Krugerrands (they eventually lost more than 80% of their value when the gold market corrected). I wouldn't buy beachfront property because I'd worry too much about it being washed away by storm surge.

 

In general, keep calm and think through what you'll need to face the situation. It's very unlikely that civilization will collapse overnight, it IS likely that you'll have to deal with a hurricane, earthquake, or blizzard. That's very doable if you prepare. Oh, and the 100+% inflation was also very doable if you shopped carefully and bought nonperishables, you wanted to ditch the unstable currency as fast as you got paid.

 

:iagree: Let me assure everyone that it is amazing what you don't need when it isn't an option to have it. A very wise woman pointed this out to me a few years ago, and she was right. (We were specifically talking about diapers at the time, but it applies across the board.) If a disaster or some other calamity occurred, you would figure out how to keep yourself sheltered, clothed, and fed in some way very quickly.

 

If the worst case scenaro happens, then I won't be so worried about where we are going to live, but I will be very happy that we have a tent.:D Water is a necessity. Some sort of fuel is a necessity. Food (or access to food) is a necessity. Maybe it is easy for me to say because I already know how to can, cook from scratch, garden, slaughter animals, etc. The survival instinct is very, very strong.

[MariannNOVA]

Chiguirre,

 

Your parents bought krugerrands too? Mine did that big time. But, dad's business went through a very big crisis shortly after they did this but before most of the value was lost so at least they didn't lose their shirts!

 

I don't recommend anyone speculate in the gold and silver market unless you really know what you are doing and plan on trading in the short term not the long. We've done very well speculating on silver, but dh did a massive ton of research and we got our hands on an old coin collection that had a serious amount of silver in it for basically nothing more than face value. The auctioneer didn't have a clue what he was auctioning off and neither did the rest of the crowd....no real numismatic people in our rural area either so we didn't have much competition at bid time. That sure has paid off!

 

Where were you when the 100% inflation hit? Some African nations have experienced this. I hate to think what it is like for the people.

 

Faith

 

I bought Kruggerands and silver 34 years ago. One of my uncles was doing it and I followed suit. My parents didn't do it -- they wished they had.

[chiguirre]

The 100+% inflation was Venezuela in the 90s. I also lived through more than half of the banks failing, and yes, we had money in one of them and I got to wait in the hours long line for my check. The 100% annual inflation wasn't that hard to deal with. We still used bolivares as daily currency. It's only in hyperinflations like Zimbabwe that the local currency is totally worthless. This happened to my dad's family in Hungary after WW2, but it only lasted a couple of months and you could barter for necessities. Lots of countries have had these episodes without civil society breaking down completely.

[LisaKinVA]

Right now, I'm using heavy couponing and stockpiling a years' worth of things like deoderant, detergent, toothpaste, toothbrushes (just got 5 awesome coupons from the dentist!), toilet paper, tuna, paper towels...

 

We will start gardening and some canning this year as well. However, our climate limits much of what we can actually grow and how much.

 

We've been adjusting our diets, I've found a local CSA to purchase shares from. I have a source for organic beef (half-a-cow at a time). There are two places I can purchase organic eggs locally, and relatively inexpensively. Our family of 7 is down to drinking/consuming 2 gallons of milk a week. Once we move, I will start making our own yogurt... and dry cereal breakfasts will be a thing of the past (except for treats).

 

Our new home is very well insulated/sealed. Unlike my father's house... the temp in our house won't drop to 50 degrees without heat! It might get to 60 in the winter and 85 in the summer, but there is a HUGE difference between 50 and 60 degrees! BRRR. We aren't off the grid, but everything is in place so that we can get off grid for most everything. We are ready for a back-up generator (electric all in place), Solar, and geothermal heat/cooling.

 

I'm not saying there wouldn't still be some adjusting to do... but I'm pretty confident that we could make the adjustments quickly, and survive.

[cin]

I think the "heal us" category can cover a LOT of ground. ;) Like, mascara is healing to my soul because I am emotionally damaged by how awful I look without it. How's that? LOL

 

 

So confused; was trying to click on the 'like' button :D

[MariannNOVA]

So confused; was trying to click on the 'like' button :D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[lcelmer]

Right now, I'm using heavy couponing and stockpiling a years' worth of things like deoderant, detergent, toothpaste, toothbrushes (just got 5 awesome coupons from the dentist!), toilet paper, tuna, paper towels...

 

 

The nice thing about this is that you can store up enough to cover for other more common disasters, like job losses, extra medical bills, unusual car bills etc.

 

This year during the back to school I intend to coupon my brains out so we won't have to buy school supplies for the next 2ish years... Love those 10 cent binders of paper... :-D

[MariannNOVA]

The nice thing about this is that you can store up enough to cover for other more common disasters, like job losses, extra medical bills, unusual car bills etc.

 

This year during the back to school I intend to coupon my brains out so we won't have to buy school supplies for the next 2ish years... Love those 10 cent binders of paper... :-D

 

:iagree: THIS is how my brain works!

 

Please comment here: GIVEAWAY on my blog: SIMPLY Comment: WHAT, if anything, are you doing to prepare for the TOUGH time that many Americans think we will soon be facing in this country? I.E., Runaway inflation, etc. Read MORE HERE: http://pleasedonteatthedaisies-mariann.blogspot.com/

[LibraryLover]

I remember those interest rates. We bought our first home in '88 and it wasnt that much better.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I'm definitely stockpiling, or as much as possible within our limited space.

 

But is it weird that I'm thinking that if everything collapses, I want to have all my curricula purchased ahead? :D

[amy g.]

So far, this morning, I have milked the goats, and gathered the eggs, made two pounds of cheese and fed the whey to the pigs, transplanted about half of my tomato seedlings, paid Ds to fill my raised beds with compost, and I still need to weed, but I may not get to it today. Planting the potatoes and onion starts will have to wait, for sure.

 

I'm not frightened about the future. If life as we know it comes to an end, I'll start a new life. If everything resolves itself, we have still had a great time learning to be more self-sufficient.

 

I have a friend who is stockpiling toothbrushes and toilet paper. I tell her that I'm stockpiling skills and knowledge. If you have 10 acres, you have a lot of options. I'd start with this book

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78605.The_Self_sufficient_Life_and_How_to_Live_It

 

One of the most vital survival skills I can think of is community and cooperation. Are there any like minded people in your area who you get along with and enjoy? Maybe you can go in on a project together.

 

We buy dairy calves for $50 each. I keep them at first, and bottle feed them our excess milk. At weaning, they go to my friend's house because she has more land and more grass. We split the meat, so it's a winning proposition for us both.

 

I have a 2 acre garden spot that I will plant soon. I know I'll need some help this summer with the upkeep. One of my city friends has promised to help me one day a week in exchange for the produce she picks.

 

I have 6 goats in milk now, and am getting 4 gallons a day. (some of those are miniature goats) I could breed 5 times that number, but I'm not set up to process 10 gallons of milk a day. I'd look for someone who wants help with farm chores, and barter labor for food.

[prairiewindmomma]

You asked what you should do with ten acres. Here's what I'd do if I had ten acres:

 

1. Find a place where you can set up an outdoor clothesline. Chances are electricity is going to continue to go up in price. Dryers are energy hogs (ie so much so than when we lived abroad, no one could afford them).

 

2. Cut back on excess expenditures and use that to buy some food in bulk. Things like rice, beans, and wheat can last 30+ years in plastic buckets. You might also think about laundry detergent, dishwasher soap, etc. If you MUST have chocolate to be happy & thrive, build a stash in your freezer. :)

 

3. Think about an alternative heating source. With a lot of acreage in timber, a wood stove might be a good idea. Wood takes a while to age, so cut some now if you think you'll use it this next winter.

 

4. Find a good sunny place for a garden. Plant some fruit trees. They take a long time to get to maturity. Learn what grows in your area. Start amending your soil. Start a compost pile. Have a kid make a rain barrel as a project or start vermicomposting.

 

5. Have some cash on hand. In a panic, banks might freeze funds. In any event, they don't have enough cash on hand to give everyone who wanted their money out their money in the event of a true run.

 

6. Get some chickens. Eggs are necessary in a lot of cooking, and chicken tastes yummy. Chickens can free range for a lot of their food in the summer, and are decently easy to care for. In a pinch, they are a cost effective protein source. :)

 

Even if the world doesn't come to an end (and I don't think it will), all of these things are "good". :)

[Barry Goldwater]

You asked what you should do with ten acres. Here's what I'd do if I had ten acres:

 

1. Find a place where you can set up an outdoor clothesline. Chances are electricity is going to continue to go up in price. Dryers are energy hogs (ie so much so than when we lived abroad, no one could afford them).

 

2. Cut back on excess expenditures and use that to buy some food in bulk. Things like rice, beans, and wheat can last 30+ years in plastic buckets. You might also think about laundry detergent, dishwasher soap, etc. If you MUST have chocolate to be happy & thrive, build a stash in your freezer. :)

 

3. Think about an alternative heating source. With a lot of acreage in timber, a wood stove might be a good idea. Wood takes a while to age, so cut some now if you think you'll use it this next winter.

 

4. Find a good sunny place for a garden. Plant some fruit trees. They take a long time to get to maturity. Learn what grows in your area. Start amending your soil. Start a compost pile. Have a kid make a rain barrel as a project or start vermicomposting.

 

5. Have some cash on hand. In a panic, banks might freeze funds. In any event, they don't have enough cash on hand to give everyone who wanted their money out their money in the event of a true run.

 

6. Get some chickens. Eggs are necessary in a lot of cooking, and chicken tastes yummy. Chickens can free range for a lot of their food in the summer, and are decently easy to care for. In a pinch, they are a cost effective protein source. :)

 

Even if the world doesn't come to an end (and I don't think it will), all of these things are "good". :)

 

We've been living this way for 15 years...my kids know no other way.

They can raise goats, select breeding pairs, hatch out/raise/butcher chickens, give vaccinations to livestock, raise steer, ride horses, shovel manure (tons!), make jams, can, raise veges, split wood, entertain themselves without a screen or a gadget, drive a tractor, drive a harness goat and harness pony, mend fence, ...and we've HAD SO MUCH FUN!! Our hobbies and interests became our life. :)

 

...they cheer when the power goes out...:001_huh:

[gaillardia]

I'm thinking you mean on hand, not in the bank. If, God forbid, another 9/11 type crisis were to happen how much cash do you think is reasonable?

Don't you think the value of the dollar may not amount to much at that point?

Put a little away as often as you can. For some people, having $1000 on hand is what they would need. I'd start with $75.

I think having goods and services to barter would be more in demand.

I don't eat money or gold, and if I had anything that you wanted or needed, I wouldn't accept money or gold or silver for it.:001_smile:

Last snowstorm, just one and two weeks ago, there was no bread, no cereal, not much dairy in the stores. That was just for snowstorms where the trucks couldn't get through.

There is a lot happening! If you haven't been affected by the economy or other natural or world events in a negative way, your turn is coming.

Barry Goldwater, master herbalists have learned how to treat appendicitis without surgery. Hopefully you'll have a master herbalist living near you if your appendix bursts.;)

[TXMary2]

So confused; was trying to click on the 'like' button :D

 

:lol: I am constantly looking for the "like" button on WTM!

[Barry Goldwater]

if your appendix bursts.;)

 

herbs, smerbs...be a man and just walk it off!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

 

I did not know that <re: herbal treatment for appendix>...something new to read about! Thanks!!

[MariannNOVA]

We've been living this way for 15 years...my kids know no other way.

They can raise goats, select breeding pairs, hatch out/raise/butcher chickens, give vaccinations to livestock, raise steer, ride horses, shovel manure (tons!), make jams, can, raise veges, split wood, entertain themselves without a screen or a gadget, drive a tractor, drive a harness goat and harness pony, mend fence, ...and we've HAD SO MUCH FUN!! Our hobbies and interests became our life. :)

 

...they cheer when the power goes out...:001_huh:

 

I have the utmost respect for you and your family. My kids would so love that.

 

I'm definitely stockpiling, or as much as possible within our limited space.

 

But is it weird that I'm thinking that if everything collapses, I want to have all my curricula purchased ahead? :D

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

One of the most vital survival skills I can think of is community and cooperation. Are there any like minded people in your area who you get along with and enjoy? Maybe you can go in on a project together.

 

.

 

The like minded folks are our friends in our homeschool co-op; the wives will probably find all this as eye opening as I did -- the husbands will probably all be on the same page as my dh.

[Audrey]

This covers everything and is a great read besides.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1570615535/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0912365951&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1RBB4CJDC5J5QCCRCSCE

 

 

Classic. My own copy is falling apart and held together by rubber bands.

[happypamama]

But is it weird that I'm thinking that if everything collapses, I want to have all my curricula purchased ahead? :D

 

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. We'll find a way to feed, shelter, and clothe ourselves, because people generally do manage those things, one way or another. But the curricula! What if the internet and libraries collapse??

 

Then I remember that people used to educate themselves with little more than the Bible, and we have several of those. I'm sure we'll manage.

[Audrey]

economically and hyper-inflation is coming. We don't live on a farm(although we live on 10 wooded acres) have no animals and don't even have a garden. Could someone give me a resource to the most basic starting point help to prepare for extremely bad times?

 

I've read a little from old threads, but they're a bit overwhelming- would really like a simple resource. TIA

 

 

These threads keep popping up. I know there's a full moon rising, too, so I'll put some of it off to the usual lunacy, but I have to say this:

 

I'm of the opinion, that if you think you're going to start "now" to be self-sufficient, you're deluded and scr*wed from the get go. You don't just go buy a parcel of land and suddenly become a farmer. It takes a lot of investment to get to the self-sufficient point or even to the mostly self-sufficient point. It doesn't happen overnight, or over a fortnight, or even over a year or two. It takes time, LOTS of hard physical labour and lots of openmindedness in regard to the way you live.

 

I think that almost any one of the farm folks on this board would tell you there is no quick fix, there are no short-cuts, it isn't cheap, and it isn't for the faint hearted.

[DawnL]

:lurk5: (I'm in the middle of my school day. I want to come back to this thread later ;) )

[amy g.]

I agree with you, Audrey.

 

I always hear people say they will start raising their own food if times get tougher. I don't even attempt to explain how steep the learning curve is.

Edited February 17, 2011 by amy g.

[Heidi]

These threads keep popping up. I know there's a full moon rising, too, so I'll put some of it off to the usual lunacy, but I have to say this:

 

I'm of the opinion, that if you think you're going to start "now" to be self-sufficient, you're deluded and scr*wed from the get go. You don't just go buy a parcel of land and suddenly become a farmer. It takes a lot of investment to get to the self-sufficient point or even to the mostly self-sufficient point. It doesn't happen overnight, or over a fortnight, or even over a year or two. It takes time, LOTS of hard physical labour and lots of openmindedness in regard to the way you live.

 

I think that almost any one of the farm folks on this board would tell you there is no quick fix, there are no short-cuts, it isn't cheap, and it isn't for the faint hearted.

 

I understand what you mean, but I don't think anyone is scr*wed if they haven't started yet. Even if you have a little extra, it is better than having nothing. The important thing is to *start* preparing as you are able. Buy extra food everytime you shop, re-prioritize your spending, and start now.

 

It does take a long time to gather everything, change priorities, develop skills and habits, etc, but I also don't think you have to go to the extreme of being a farmer in order to come out in one piece when all is said and done. Do what you can and you'll be better off than if you did nothing. Just start!!

[Joy at Home]

These threads keep popping up. I know there's a full moon rising, too, so I'll put some of it off to the usual lunacy, but I have to say this:

 

I'm of the opinion, that if you think you're going to start "now" to be self-sufficient, you're deluded and scr*wed from the get go. You don't just go buy a parcel of land and suddenly become a farmer. It takes a lot of investment to get to the self-sufficient point or even to the mostly self-sufficient point. It doesn't happen overnight, or over a fortnight, or even over a year or two. It takes time, LOTS of hard physical labour and lots of openmindedness in regard to the way you live.

 

I think that almost any one of the farm folks on this board would tell you there is no quick fix, there are no short-cuts, it isn't cheap, and it isn't for the faint hearted.

 

 

Of course. Being completely self-sufficient is not going to happen for most of us, I suspect. But educating yourself on ways you can prepare your family for hard times is sound and practical. It is not all or nothing.

 

Lisa

[Audrey]

I agree with you, Audrey.

 

I always here people say they will start raising their own food if times get tougher. I don't even attempt to explain how steep the learning curve is.

 

Ayup. Been married to a farmer for 14 years and despite what I KNOW I can do, I believe I'm still on the upslide of that learning curve. I'm shooting for the skill level dh's mom had, but boy-oh-boy! That woman was a prairie Amazon! I have a LOT left to learn.

[FaithManor]

Learning Curve? Tell me about it. Boy, I'd like to get on the upside of that...stupid apple trees...I swear it's going to take magic fairy dust to make those things grow.

 

We still haven't figured out how to harvest and store seeds in a way that gets consistent results.

 

This whole journey has been one baby step at a time.

 

Faith

[Audrey]

I understand what you mean, but I don't think anyone is scr*wed if they haven't started yet. Even if you have a little extra, it is better than having nothing. The important thing is to *start* preparing as you are able. Buy extra food everytime you shop, re-prioritize your spending, and start now.

 

It does take a long time to gather everything, change priorities, develop skills and habits, etc, but I also don't think you have to go to the extreme of being a farmer in order to come out in one piece when all is said and done. Do what you can and you'll be better off than if you did nothing. Just start!!

 

 

I should clarify. By scr*wed, I mean you're out of luck at getting a piece of land at any reasonable price. When these panics happen, land prices shoot sky high. It would be a complete rip-off to buy most of the land that's even farmable, and a complete waste of time to buy a cheap piece of unbreakable scrub.

[Audrey]

Learning Curve? Tell me about it. Boy, I'd like to get on the upside of that...stupid apple trees...I swear it's going to take magic fairy dust to make those things grow.

 

We still haven't figured out how to harvest and store seeds in a way that gets consistent results.

 

This whole journey has been one baby step at a time.

 

Faith

 

Are you talking garden seeds or crop seed? Do you have a grain dryer?

[redsoxwife]

economically and hyper-inflation is coming. We don't live on a farm(although we live on 10 wooded acres) have no animals and don't even have a garden. Could someone give me a resource to the most basic starting point help to prepare for extremely bad times?

 

I've read a little from old threads, but they're a bit overwhelming- would really like a simple resource. TIA

 

I have two additions of a book called "back to basics" that has all sorts of information. It has some pretty basic information on lots of things, and is a good starting point, and once you have an idea what you're interested in working on you can find resources that have more space to go more in depth.

[FaithManor]

Hi Audrey,

 

We are talking garden seeds here and no, we don't have a grain dryer. We are talking about growing some oats here this year so there is another new thing to add to the learning curve.

 

Faith

[Audrey]

Hi Audrey,

 

We are talking garden seeds here and no, we don't have a grain dryer. We are talking about growing some oats here this year so there is another new thing to add to the learning curve.

 

Faith

 

 

Oh. Well, my garden seeds are hit and miss, too. I dry on the plant, then in the sun, and the sun isn't the most reliable! LOL! I do oversave and overseed a bit, so if I don't get a great germination rate, I'm still covered. I'll even reseed if it's rather poor.

[MariannNOVA]

These threads keep popping up. I know there's a full moon rising, too, so I'll put some of it off to the usual lunacy, but I have to say this:

 

I'm of the opinion, that if you think you're going to start "now" to be self-sufficient, you're deluded and scr*wed from the get go. You don't just go buy a parcel of land and suddenly become a farmer. It takes a lot of investment to get to the self-sufficient point or even to the mostly self-sufficient point. It doesn't happen overnight, or over a fortnight, or even over a year or two. It takes time, LOTS of hard physical labour and lots of openmindedness in regard to the way you live.

 

I think that almost any one of the farm folks on this board would tell you there is no quick fix, there are no short-cuts, it isn't cheap, and it isn't for the faint hearted.

 

See, this IS what I thought. Thank you -- at least I know I had myself pegged right.

I'm not being snarky, btw.:)

[Liz CA]

There is a fat book titled something like "Country Living Guide/bible" etc.

You can find it at B&N or Amazon.

[prairiewindmomma]

Do you own _Seed to Seed_? I've been re-reading it in the evenings trying to make another attempt at seed saving from my heirlooms. They give detailed instructions in the book that are really helpful. My real challenge is keeping the seed pure--so much stuff crosspollinates. I've finally decided just to always hold back some heirloom seeds. Most will keep for several years under good condition.

 

I hear you about the apple tree woes. My neighbor to the immediate south (I'm in suburbia) has cedar trees and we keep fighting blight. :(

 

I agree with everyone that you can't be self sufficient. That said, what I can grow frees up $$$ to be spent elsewhere. I also am eating food with higher nutritional content than can be found in the stores. Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean that you shouldn't do something. :)

[MariannNOVA]

Do you own _Seed to Seed_? I've been re-reading it in the evenings trying to make another attempt at seed saving from my heirlooms. They give detailed instructions in the book that are really helpful. My real challenge is keeping the seed pure--so much stuff crosspollinates. I've finally decided just to always hold back some heirloom seeds. Most will keep for several years under good condition.

 

I hear you about the apple tree woes. My neighbor to the immediate south (I'm in suburbia) has cedar trees and we keep fighting blight. :(

 

I agree with everyone that you can't be self sufficient. That said, what I can grow frees up $$$ to be spent elsewhere. I also am eating food with higher nutritional content than can be found in the stores. Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean that you shouldn't do something. :)

 

THANK YOU for that in red -- that is reasonable and manageable.:)

[amy g.]

I completely agree that no one can do everything, but everyone can do something.

 

That's why I find the idea of community so vital. Let's work together, people.

[lmkzbcb]

If you want to know what will happen if the economy tanks, look at somewhat recent history.

Greece, Argentina, Russia, Venezuela. I know there are others I just cant think of them right now. That is going to give you the best clue as to what might happen.

 

The nations survive. The rich get richer. The governments take more control over the private sector. The middle class shrinks dramatically, increasing the size of the lower economic class. People survive by their wits.

A book I can recommend about the economic collapse in Argentina:

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving-Economic/dp/9870563457

He gives some good insights and some reality checks as far as what is really important when it happens.

 

Do I think it is going to happen? I dont know, I think we still have time to change the direction we are headed, if we do it quickly.

And I agree with Prairewindmomma and Amy G.

[katemary63]

These threads keep popping up. I know there's a full moon rising, too, so I'll put some of it off to the usual lunacy, but I have to say this:

 

I'm of the opinion, that if you think you're going to start "now" to be self-sufficient, you're deluded and scr*wed from the get go. You don't just go buy a parcel of land and suddenly become a farmer. It takes a lot of investment to get to the self-sufficient point or even to the mostly self-sufficient point. It doesn't happen overnight, or over a fortnight, or even over a year or two. It takes time, LOTS of hard physical labour and lots of openmindedness in regard to the way you live.

 

I think that almost any one of the farm folks on this board would tell you there is no quick fix, there are no short-cuts, it isn't cheap, and it isn't for the faint hearted.

 

:iagree: Well, we did (bolded part above). At the ages of 42 and 40, we moved from the city to 160 acres cattle ranch, neither of us having been raised on or ever having lived or worked on a farm for any length of time. It's been almost 8 years. It's taken our life savings and as Audrey said, blood, sweat and tears (And voracious reading and research!). We now know how to raise most livestock and poultry, diagnose many farm animal diseases, medicate and treat our own animals, treat wounds, butcher poultry, rabbits and deer, raise, cut and bale hay, improve pastures and hay fields, drive a tractor and haul trailers, build fences, coops, sheds, and catching pens. work a cattle shute, and many, many other things. The only thing I can't do is garden. I DO NOT enjoy the sun in AR in August! But my DH has gardened all his life and if we need to, we will.

 

We do not take vaccations. We do not have extra money. We spend most all our time and energy raising our daugther and farming and that's pretty much it. We are exhausted. However, we love it. We both love animals and country life and are very satisfied by it. It's definately not for everyone.

 

BTW: We did not do this due to any possible future economic, social or political difficulties we thought may come. We just always wanted to be farmers. It cost us a FORTUNE to be able to say we are farmers! :lol: And yes, DH still works full time off farm. You can't make any money farming a little place like this!

[lmkzbcb]

:iagree: Well, we did (bolded part above). At the ages of 42 and 40, we moved from the city to 160 acres cattle ranch, neither of us having been raised on or ever having lived or worked on a farm for any length of time. It's been almost 8 years. It's taken our life savings and as Audrey said, blood, sweat and tears (And voracious reading and research!). We now know how to raise most livestock and poultry, diagnose many farm animal diseases, medicate and treat our own animals, treat wounds, butcher poultry, rabbits and deer, raise, cut and bale hay, improve pastures and hay fields, drive a tractor and haul trailers, build fences, coops, sheds, and catching pens. work a cattle shute, and many, many other things. The only thing I can't do is garden. I DO NOT enjoy the sun in AR in August! But my DH has gardened all his life and if we need to, we will.

 

We do not take vaccations. We do not have extra money. We spend most all our time and energy raising our daugther and farming and that's pretty much it. We are exhausted. However, we love it. We both love animals and country life and are very satisfied by it. It's definately not for everyone.

 

BTW: We did not do this due to any possible future economic, social or political difficulties we thought may come. We just always wanted to be farmers. It cost us a FORTUNE to be able to say we are farmers! :lol: And yes, DH still works full time off farm. You can't make any money farming a little place like this!

 

Can I come live with you? :D

[jazzyfizzle]

I think the "heal us" category can cover a LOT of ground. ;) Like, mascara is healing to my soul because I am emotionally damaged by how awful I look without it. How's that? LOL

 

He he I was thinking the same - my dogs heal my soul, and what about books, those heal and strengthen the mind. I have to have both of those things.

 

:D

[MariannNOVA]

:iagree: Well, we did (bolded part above). At the ages of 42 and 40, we moved from the city to 160 acres cattle ranch, neither of us having been raised on or ever having lived or worked on a farm for any length of time. It's been almost 8 years. It's taken our life savings and as Audrey said, blood, sweat and tears (And voracious reading and research!). We now know how to raise most livestock and poultry, diagnose many farm animal diseases, medicate and treat our own animals, treat wounds, butcher poultry, rabbits and deer, raise, cut and bale hay, improve pastures and hay fields, drive a tractor and haul trailers, build fences, coops, sheds, and catching pens. work a cattle shute, and many, many other things. The only thing I can't do is garden. I DO NOT enjoy the sun in AR in August! But my DH has gardened all his life and if we need to, we will.

 

We do not take vaccations. We do not have extra money. We spend most all our time and energy raising our daugther and farming and that's pretty much it. We are exhausted. However, we love it. We both love animals and country life and are very satisfied by it. It's definately not for everyone.

 

BTW: We did not do this due to any possible future economic, social or political difficulties we thought may come. We just always wanted to be farmers. It cost us a FORTUNE to be able to say we are farmers! :lol: And yes, DH still works full time off farm. You can't make any money farming a little place like this!

 

 

I think you are amazing! :) My mom's two uncles became farmers when they arrived in the US from Italy. My mom's dad (brother #3) went to NJ and became a baker - bread. When I was a kid, the biggest thrill was when we went to Aunt Annie and Uncle Sam's farm, and Uncle Jack's farm. They all worked so hard.

[My3Boys]

Barry Goldwater is a very smart fellow! The big problem with America is that it believes it is invincible and what happens everywhere else and in every civilization that has lived with a government that robs Peter to pay Paul, won't somehow magically happen here.

 

Something has to give. The National Debt is currently 14.158 trillion dollars. We can't make the March interest payments unless congress increases our loan ceiling so WE CAN BORROW MORE MONEY TO PAY THE INTEREST. We aren't paying on the principal. Remember all of those interest only loans that caused people to lose their homes during the real estate bubble burst? That's the FED. They've kept spending and borrowing to cover that spending until they've bankrupted the nation. Every single president and congress since Lyndon B. Johnson has done this. We haven't really had a fiscally conservative president since Dwight D. Eisenhower.

 

If every asset of every single person living within our borders including Donald Trump, Bill Gates, and all of their friends were seized, there would not be enough wealth to pay the principal balance. GDP has bombed in relation to that debt. Therefore, our nation is bankrupt. The media doesn't want to announce it, the government most certainly doesn't want to announce it, the president will never say it, but this country is for all practical purposes, bankrupt. What happened in Greece is coming. There will be austerity measures. There won't be any National Health Care - passing that was just a feel good measure to keep the illusion of prosperity alive - there isn't any money to fund it. And forget that, Social Security is going to bankrupt and take a whole lot of elderly people with it to say nothing of the 45,000,000 people that are now on food stamp assistance, most of whom desperately need it, who won't be able to get that either. It's going to be awful. The rioting in Greece and Egypt is just the beginning unless someone with some brains gets in power mighty quick, stops living in dreamland, and starts making the tough choices.

 

What about the collateral held on money loaned to us. Many of our federal lands, our gold and silver mines, some of our coal reserves, etc. are all collateral on these loans. If the WMF or China were to call in our loans for inability to pay, we would not be able to run our power grids. So, electricity would be doled out on a rationed basis. Think about WWII - the rationing system for fuel, electricity, food, clothing, etc. That is what will have to be implemented. If you can't produce it for yourself, you will have to make do with what the World Bank and the WMF say you can have.

 

So even if hyperinflation does not hit any time soon, in the next two years we will need to see VERY SERIOUS tax increases across the board, even the poor will pay more, in order to limp along a government on austerity measures. Everyone should think about what it will mean to their budgets to see a much larger portion of their paycheck go to a government that will provide them with far fewer services. How does that affect your budget? If inflation and high taxes occur, what will that mean for food, utilities, and clothing those growing children.

 

The extension of the Bush tax cuts was done by our government to maintain an illusion that it still had everything under control, that things weren't as bad as most of the U.S. and world economists believe, that the system - as is - can still keep spinning indefinitely.

 

More food for thought - the national debt stands at over $45,000.00 per U.S. Citizen (that's every American man, woman, and child). It is over $127,000.00 per taxpayer. This is not a sustainable system.

 

I think the thing that scares me the most is the sheer amount of U.S. natural resources that are held in debt collatoral. They've mortgaged our future, our children's future, and our grandchildren's future.

 

Faith

 

I agree with most of what you have said. I believe the only real solution is to look at what caused this in the first place:

 

We have to get over this entitlement mentality. We have to stop demanding the government provide nearly everything for us and get back to work ethic and individual responsibility.

 

We have to get over the idea that utopia is possible if we just spend a little more money and redistribute everybody's income equally.

 

We have to get back to using public assistance for what it should be used for and that is as a last resort to keep people from starving until they get back on their feet, except for those who are truly disabled due to age or infirmity, not just to "make life easier", especially when the families have other options but won't take them because they are inconvenient. If we don't rein this in, the help won't be there for those that really need it.

 

Restructure welfare so that it has a goal of getting people self-sufficient as soon as possible.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for people not to work by providing them with everything. Deal with the root causes of poverty instead of just throwing money at the outcome.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for teens to have babies.

 

We need to stop "nation building". Stop all foreign aid. It usually ends up in the hands of dictators anyway.

 

Stop funding public radio, public television, and "the arts". They can compete for public funds just like the rest of the non-profit organizations.

 

Get the government back to doing only what the Constitution charges it with. Everything else needs to be done through the private sector with government regulation only if necessary

 

Everyone should pay taxes. Half the population needs to stop looking at the other half as their personal ATM whenever they think they need it. Stop voting for the candidate who promises to raises taxes on those already carrying the majority of the burden so you can live off of it. Learn the difference between "need" and "want". Everyone needs to have a stake in taxes and spending.

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Not much of this is going to be popular because certain politicians have convinced a large part of the population that the government is responsible for taking care of all of our needs. We are now seeing the results. Is this harsh? Yes. It has to be. The party is over. We need to wake up to reality.

Edited February 17, 2011 by My3Boys

[jazzyfizzle]

Don't you think the value of the dollar may not amount to much at that point?

 

I think having goods and services to barter would be more in demand.

I don't eat money or gold, and if I had anything that you wanted or needed, I wouldn't accept money or gold or silver for it.:001_smile:

;)

 

 

Absolutely. You can't eat gold or silver or heat your house with it. We are working on basic necessities-

 

Water- a source for reliable and safe water is priority #1

Food - garden, chickens, guns & ammo, fishing nets, traps

Heat - a heat source that can operate off the grid

Tools- outdoor & indoor tools, ropes, repair supplies

Clothing- sturdy outdoor gear

[lmkzbcb]

:iagree: You go girl! (My3Boys)

 

 

and :lurk5:

[homeschoolmom]

I agree with most of what you have said. I believe the only real solution is to look at what caused this in the first place:

 

We have to get over this entitlement mentality. We have to stop demanding the government provide nearly everything for us and get back to work ethic and individual responsibility.

 

We have to get over the idea that utopia is possible if we just spend a little more money and redistribute everybody's income equally.

 

We have to get back to using public assistance for what it should be used for and that is as a last resort to keep people from starving until they get back on their feet, except for those who are truly disabled due to age or infirmity, not just to "make life easier", especially when the families have other options but won't take them because they are inconvenient. If we don't rein this in, the help won't be there for those that really need it.

 

Restructure welfare so that it has a goal of getting people self-sufficient as soon as possible.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for people not to work by providing them with everything. Deal with the root causes of poverty instead of just throwing money at the outcome.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for teens to have babies.

 

We need to stop "nation building". Stop all foreign aid. It usually ends up in the hands of dictators anyway.

 

Stop funding public radio, public television, and "the arts". They can compete for public funds just like the rest of the non-profit organizations.

 

Get the government back to doing only what the Constitution charges it with. Everything else needs to be done through the private sector with government regulation only if necessary

 

Everyone should pay taxes. Half the population needs to stop looking at the other half as their personal ATM whenever they think they need it. Stop voting for the candidate who promises to raises taxes on those already carrying the majority of the burden so you can live off of it. Learn the difference between "need" and "want". Everyone needs to have a stake in taxes and spending.

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Not much of this is going to be popular because certain politicians have convinced a large part of the population that the government is responsible for taking care of all of our needs. We are now seeing the results. Is this harsh? Yes. It has to be. The party is over. We need to wake up to reality.

 

Gosh, I love this post! My thoughts exactly!!

[La Condessa]

What do you do when you have nothing to begin with? I see this looming up in the future, and besides reading lots of books on self-sufficiency from the library and learning to sew, I do not see anything else I can do. I couldn't even grow seeds in a window box, because we are living out of a room in my parents' house.

[Becca211]

I agree with most of what you have said. I believe the only real solution is to look at what caused this in the first place:

 

We have to get over this entitlement mentality. We have to stop demanding the government provide nearly everything for us and get back to work ethic and individual responsibility.

 

We have to get over the idea that utopia is possible if we just spend a little more money and redistribute everybody's income equally.

 

We have to get back to using public assistance for what it should be used for and that is as a last resort to keep people from starving until they get back on their feet, except for those who are truly disabled due to age or infirmity, not just to "make life easier", especially when the families have other options but won't take them because they are inconvenient. If we don't rein this in, the help won't be there for those that really need it.

 

Restructure welfare so that it has a goal of getting people self-sufficient as soon as possible.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for people not to work by providing them with everything. Deal with the root causes of poverty instead of just throwing money at the outcome.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for teens to have babies.

 

We need to stop "nation building". Stop all foreign aid. It usually ends up in the hands of dictators anyway.

 

Stop funding public radio, public television, and "the arts". They can compete for public funds just like the rest of the non-profit organizations.

 

Get the government back to doing only what the Constitution charges it with. Everything else needs to be done through the private sector with government regulation only if necessary

 

Everyone should pay taxes. Half the population needs to stop looking at the other half as their personal ATM whenever they think they need it. Stop voting for the candidate who promises to raises taxes on those already carrying the majority of the burden so you can live off of it. Learn the difference between "need" and "want". Everyone needs to have a stake in taxes and spending.

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Not much of this is going to be popular because certain politicians have convinced a large part of the population that the government is responsible for taking care of all of our needs. We are now seeing the results. Is this harsh? Yes. It has to be. The party is over. We need to wake up to reality.

:iagree:Completely!

[MariannNOVA]

I agree with most of what you have said. I believe the only real solution is to look at what caused this in the first place:

 

We have to get over this entitlement mentality. We have to stop demanding the government provide nearly everything for us and get back to work ethic and individual responsibility.

 

We have to get over the idea that utopia is possible if we just spend a little more money and redistribute everybody's income equally.

 

We have to get back to using public assistance for what it should be used for and that is as a last resort to keep people from starving until they get back on their feet, except for those who are truly disabled due to age or infirmity, not just to "make life easier", especially when the families have other options but won't take them because they are inconvenient. If we don't rein this in, the help won't be there for those that really need it.

 

Restructure welfare so that it has a goal of getting people self-sufficient as soon as possible.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for people not to work by providing them with everything. Deal with the root causes of poverty instead of just throwing money at the outcome.

 

We have to stop making it profitable for teens to have babies.

 

We need to stop "nation building". Stop all foreign aid. It usually ends up in the hands of dictators anyway.

 

Stop funding public radio, public television, and "the arts". They can compete for public funds just like the rest of the non-profit organizations.

 

Get the government back to doing only what the Constitution charges it with. Everything else needs to be done through the private sector with government regulation only if necessary

 

Everyone should pay taxes. Half the population needs to stop looking at the other half as their personal ATM whenever they think they need it. Stop voting for the candidate who promises to raises taxes on those already carrying the majority of the burden so you can live off of it. Learn the difference between "need" and "want". Everyone needs to have a stake in taxes and spending.

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Not much of this is going to be popular because certain politicians have convinced a large part of the population that the government is responsible for taking care of all of our needs. We are now seeing the results. Is this harsh? Yes. It has to be. The party is over. We need to wake up to reality.

 

AMEN.