please help us fix this problem

[Parrothead]

my boys know that I've always raised them to honor their wives and keep them first in their lives. They know how I feel about that. The transfer of loyalty would have been an issue with me if it hadn't happened.

 

What I didn't expect was for them to love and be loyal to her family and not ours, when ds was so close to me and my other ds. That's not fair and not acceptable by me, but I'm getting up the courage to just let it all go and focus on things that truly need my attention.

 

This has all been a process!

Do you really think he has been disloyal to his family? Maybe there is stuff we aren't getting.

 

Didn't you raise him to be a polite young man who speaks to others intelligently? Could it be that you are getting the man you've raised? Obviously the girlfriend was raised a bit differently, i.e. can't hold her end of a conversation with a person outside the family.

 

The dynamic has shifted on you a bit unexpectedly. The closeness you shared will probably be replaced. Not that it can't be a wonderful thing for the both of you. His relationship with his brother will, in all likelihood, work itself out.

 

Even if they break up there will probably always be bits of himself that he won't share. But that is just being a man, and it sounds like you raised a fine one.

[Denisemomof4]

Do you really think he has been disloyal to his family? Maybe there is stuff we aren't getting.

Didn't you raise him to be a polite young man who speaks to others intelligently? Could it be that you are getting the man you've raised? Obviously the girlfriend was raised a bit differently, i.e. can't hold her end of a conversation with a person outside the family.

 

The dynamic has shifted on you a bit unexpectedly. The closeness you shared will probably be replaced. Not that it can't be a wonderful thing for the both of you. His relationship with his brother will, in all likelihood, work itself out.

 

Even if they break up there will probably always be bits of himself that he won't share. But that is just being a man, and it sounds like you raised a fine one.

 

No, I don't think he's been disloyal to his family. I expected him to transfer his loyalties to his wife/future wife/girlfriend, but I didn't expect him to transfer his loyalties to her family and cut us out. THAT is what is hurting.

 

I am SO PROUD of the boyfriend he is. I imagined he would be and I am SO PROUD. He *IS* a fine young man.

 

I guess I was stupid not to realize to what extent he would shut me out while in a relationship. Like I said, it's a process, I'm learning, I'm on my path to peace, and i'm doing it with all of you.

[Renee in NC]

There is a difference between being painfully shy and being controlling and manipulative. From what Denise originally wrote, the problem seems to go way beyond extreme shyness. A shy person wouldn't make your behavior toward your family change completely. Yes, we all obsess about and spend inordinate amounts of time with our new loves, but we don't change our personalities and our family relationships for the worse, in most cases.

 

For a young man (especially those just in their teens), it is very common for a girlfriend to change how the young man acts. I have seen it in my ds, in my own dh when we were young, in friends' sons, in cousins, and even in my own brother. It isn't always bad, but seems like it is most of the time.

 

That's been my experience, anyway.

 

One of my cousins has a girlfriend that deals with anxiety and is painfully shy - I have never met her even though we have been in the same house on occasion.:D My dc have met her a couple of times when they stay at my aunt's. My aunt has simply accepted that this is how she is and works around it. She would rather have a relationship with her ds and his probably future wife than to worry that the girl isn't like her. They do spend most of their time away from everyone else because of her shyness/anxiety, but my aunt *chooses* not to see it as isolating him from everyone.

 

ETA: I think it is bad because it comes out of the blue and can really hurt his family if they aren't expecting it, not necessarily because the girl is malicious. I think we have expectations about how things are going to be and then they aren't - that is hard, too.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Renee in FL

[BarbecueMom]

DH and I emotionally "ran away" together when we started dating (he was 14, I was 16). Family gatherings were taxing, and I'll fully admit I gave a lot of one word responses, smiles, and nods. I didn't want to be questioned. I didn't want to tell DH's conservative, well-off Baptist family where I lived (trailer park), what church I went to (Catholic), if my parents were divorced (they never married, I'm a b*stard child). DH's mother died when he was young, it was horribly traumatic, and he did NOT want to talk about it. He also did the same smile, nod, and one-word response thing to avoid that topic ever coming up. Now that most of our families understand our backgrounds, it's easier to converse without touchy topics coming up. We don't have to hide in the other room to avoid interrogation.

 

DH has ALWAYS been more comfortable with my family than I am with his, because my mom has loved him like a son since the day I brought him home, even when he was shy and barely talking. Because of DH's poorly integrated step family, it was harder to feel "loved and accepted" amidst the fighting and passive-aggressive behavior. DH talks to my mom almost daily, and only last week was I able to carry on a text message conversation with FIL without going through my DH.

 

I'd imagine that with a lesbian mother and a preachy father, she doesn't want to small talk about her family and will keep quiet to avoid doing so. If your son lets her know that you know about her family, accept her, and will not bring it up in conversation, things might go more smoothly.

 

I'd hold off on the lunch and shopping thing for a while. If she's terrified to reveal too much of herself in a family discussion, one-on-one time with her boyfriend's mother is just too much too fast. DH and I have been together for 11 years, married for 5. Two years ago was the first time I spent a meal with an in-law without my DH present.

 

Teenagers do weird things when they are dating though. My brother had a girlfriend who would have him pick up Burger King and bring it over a half hour before a family dinner because she hadn't eaten lunch. Then she took a full plate of food at dinner... and ate two bites. Same story when we'd go out to eat for dinner, eat an hour or so earlier, order an expensive item off the menu (or an appetizer), then take two bites. It was bizarre, but her parents were divorcing and pretty much stopped grocery shopping. She had some food security issues. We tried to be understanding, but it was really frustrating.

[Renee in NC]

No, I don't think he's been disloyal to his family. I expected him to transfer his loyalties to his wife/future wife/girlfriend, but I didn't expect him to transfer his loyalties to her family and cut us out. THAT is what is hurting.

 

I am SO PROUD of the boyfriend he is. I imagined he would be and I am SO PROUD. He *IS* a fine young man.

 

I guess I was stupid not to realize to what extent he would shut me out while in a relationship. Like I said, it's a process, I'm learning, I'm on my path to peace, and i'm doing it with all of you.

 

I think it is different with girls and boys. Girls seem to stick to their own families and bring their boyfriends/husbands with them. Boys seem to end up with their wives' families because that is where their love is, not that they are turning their back on their own family. My father has had some issues with this with my brother and his wife, but I see it differently than he does.

[BlsdMama]

No words of wisdom, but if it makes you feel any better...

 

Looking NOW, through the eyes of my MIL, I'd have been terrified. Here is my son, young, head on his shoulders, life laid out, working two jobs, going to college.... He brought home this sassy, rude, little girl four years his junior, still in high school. Could he have made a WORSE decision?!!?

 

She was polite. She was kind. She was thoughtful.

 

We've had our share of clashes, but overall, she was a queen compared to how I was.

 

I can honestly say we get along quite well and I love her very much now.

 

She can honestly say I'm a good wife, absolutely devoted to the care and love of her son and her grandchildren.

 

We're all shocked.

 

I know this isn't much comfort NOW and I'd feel awful if I were in your position. But maybe it's some comfort.

 

And often, when we raise young men to care and protect and love, they look for someone who needs care and protection, kwim? So she seems fragile. And he, as her knight in shining armor, comes to the rescue. It's what our hero boys do - they rescue and protect. And we love them extra for that too, kwim?

[simka2]

DH and I emotionally "ran away" together when we started dating (he was 14, I was 16). Family gatherings were taxing, and I'll fully admit I gave a lot of one word responses, smiles, and nods. I didn't want to be questioned. I didn't want to tell DH's conservative, well-off Baptist family where I lived (trailer park), what church I went to (Catholic), if my parents were divorced (they never married, I'm a b*stard child). DH's mother died when he was young, it was horribly traumatic, and he did NOT want to talk about it. He also did the same smile, nod, and one-word response thing to avoid that topic ever coming up. Now that most of our families understand our backgrounds, it's easier to converse without touchy topics coming up. We don't have to hide in the other room to avoid interrogation.

 

DH has ALWAYS been more comfortable with my family than I am with his, because my mom has loved him like a son since the day I brought him home, even when he was shy and barely talking. Because of DH's poorly integrated step family, it was harder to feel "loved and accepted" amidst the fighting and passive-aggressive behavior. DH talks to my mom almost daily, and only last week was I able to carry on a text message conversation with FIL without going through my DH.

 

I'd imagine that with a lesbian mother and a preachy father, she doesn't want to small talk about her family and will keep quiet to avoid doing so. If your son lets her know that you know about her family, accept her, and will not bring it up in conversation, things might go more smoothly.

 

I'd hold off on the lunch and shopping thing for a while. If she's terrified to reveal too much of herself in a family discussion, one-on-one time with her boyfriend's mother is just too much too fast. DH and I have been together for 11 years, married for 5. Two years ago was the first time I spent a meal with an in-law without my DH present.

 

Teenagers do weird things when they are dating though. My brother had a girlfriend who would have him pick up Burger King and bring it over a half hour before a family dinner because she hadn't eaten lunch. Then she took a full plate of food at dinner... and ate two bites. Same story when we'd go out to eat for dinner, eat an hour or so earlier, order an expensive item off the menu (or an appetizer), then take two bites. It was bizarre, but her parents were divorcing and pretty much stopped grocery shopping. She had some food security issues. We tried to be understanding, but it was really frustrating.

 

This was a wonderful post. My dh came from a conservative family to my very liberal one. He was very shy at first, but they just accepted him...even when they knew he was judging them. It didn't take long for dh to look at my mom like his own mother. He then began to really understand why I felt so akward at his house. At mine you just were...you were shy, you were outgoing...it didn't matter. At his it was different.

 

I'm not sure how my family did it. All I know is they didn't expect him to be anyone, but himself. Maybe that's the difference...they had no expectations (other than he treat me well) so there wasn't a way for him to disappoint. Their happiness and enjoyment was seperate from his actions.

[Murphy101]

Honestly, for the life of me I cannot think what this girl has done wrong to your family.:confused:

 

If your son is changing, he is a grown young man and that is his choice. My mil said all the things you have said. We met when dh and I were 16. She blamed me for a lot of stuff she didn't want to admit was her precious son. If he was changing, it was his choice and he LIKED the person he was changing into. If he wasn't talking to his parents, it was because he felt he already knew just how not well it would go over with them. If I had even a 10th of the power over him they allotted to me, I could have taken over the world with my special abilities.;)

 

Dh spent nearly all his time with me, he endured my family to a small degree for my sake. I wasn't comfortable in his parents house. We couldn't relax there. He wanted to be with me and we both wanted out of the stress filled houses, so we didn't spend much time around his parents. And truth be told, they liked it that way because they didn't like me.

 

It sounds like your house is very stress-filled these days and your son is simply choosing to stay out of it and avoid it. I would hesitate to blame it all on her. From your description of dinner, I have to admit if I'd been the gf at the table, I'd have kept my mouth as shut as possible and left pronto too. I sure wouldn't be looking to go shopping with either of you. It doesn't mean you or dh were horrid, but it sure doesn't sound like an Emma Bombeck polite dinner conversation situation either, kwim?

 

Idk. I bet my boys are going to break my heart too.:grouphug:

 

My only advice is to presume these two are going to get married, which means you need to treat her like a new found long lost daughter. Which means it is simply not an option to even remotely suggest she is not welcome at any time.

 

I'd pull son aside and just tell it like it is. Your family is really stressed and having a hard time right now and it's causing you and dh to be more difficult than usual. But that if he loves this girl, she is welcome in your home and you hope she can find a way to be merciful towards any of your faults and you will extend the same grace by trying to avoid finding fault in her. That you miss him and would like to have them over for dinner on a regular basis. Say Wednesday nights or whatever.

 

I know that would have gone a long way with my husband. In fact, it still would with both of us.

[Melinda in VT]

Well, there's shy and then there's rude, and I can't quite tell from the posts which is going on here.

 

When DH and I were newlyweds and living in the same town as his family, my BIL had a girlfriend that had some issues integrating with the family. They used to sit in the same room as the rest of us, but instead of joining in the conversation or even just listening to the conversation, they would whisper and giggle back and forth between each other, totally ignoring the rest of us. :glare: It did not endear her to the family.

 

Watching my BIL introduce first this girlfriend and later the woman who became his wife to the family really made me appreciate how much my DH did to smooth my entry into the family. (He did a much better job than I did introducing him to mine.)

 

:grouphug: I hope that you are able to smooth this over and that things get better from here.

[MamaT]

Denise, BTDT and lived through it with my oldest. I'll pm you.

[silliness7]

No, I don't think he's been disloyal to his family. I expected him to transfer his loyalties to his wife/future wife/girlfriend, but I didn't expect him to transfer his loyalties to her family and cut us out. THAT is what is hurting.

 

:grouphug: I think it is pretty common for the woman's family to receive preferential treatment. Man is loyal to woman. Woman is loyal to her family. I saw this with my parents. I saw this with my aunts/uncles. I see this with myself and my siblings. I have known a few couples where this is flip-flopped, but not many.

 

When I all I had were boys I was very, very, very sad knowing that they would get married and I would be the in-law instead of the MOM. It seems quite natural for man to cleave to wife but it can be quite harder for wife to separate from her mom especially if they have a close relationship.

 

I think it became quite evident to me when I started having babies. My mother came and stayed with me for a week with each one. I wanted this, needed this, loved this. My mil dropped by and left soon after. I was glad she came and glad she left. I don't dislike my mil but she is NOT my mom and she can stress me out because we see the world differently. My mom and I were on the same page. She was my mentor. My brother is leaving and cleaving to his wife AND her family. It's sad to feel like we're "losing" him especially now that they have 2 sweet boys. It's hard to feel like the "other" family. My sil is the sweetest thing but we are the "other" family and I get that. My dh's family is the "other" family too.

 

:grouphug:

It's hard being the mom of sons.

[Prudent]

Honestly, for the life of me I cannot think what this girl has done wrong to your family.:confused:

 

If your son is changing, he is a grown young man and that is his choice. My mil said all the things you have said. We met when dh and I were 16. She blamed me for a lot of stuff she didn't want to admit was her precious son. If he was changing, it was his choice and he LIKED the person he was changing into. If he wasn't talking to his parents, it was because he felt he already knew just how not well it would go over with them. If I had even a 10th of the power over him they allotted to me, I could have taken over the world with my special abilities.;)

 

This has been exactly what I've been thinking as I've read this thread.

 

There are two unrelated (IMO) issues here. The first is a painfully shy new girlfriend. I don't see her behavior as rude. Give her time and space to be welcome to be herself and move at her own pace in your family and relationship. My guess is she's not an ogre if your son is in love with her.

 

The second issue is that an 18 year old man who has moved out of his parents' home and started college is naturally not going to be as close to his parents as he once was. Girlfriend or not, I doubt you'd have the same relationship with your son now as you did last year. She's not changing him, he's not changing for her...He's growing and maturing. And that is not wrong or bad in any way.

[Britomart]

I'm sorry you're having such a stressful time during the holidays. It sounds like you'd have a lot more resources to handle the bf/gf stuff if you didn't have the other stressers.

 

Since you've said other people's experiences have been helpful to you thinking through this, may I offer a couple of my own? One was getting to know my sister-in-law. Talk about painfully shy! I had very few more-than-one-word answers from her the whole time she and my brother were dating. She just took a long, long, long time to get comfortable. And I know that was hard for my mom. But I remember just watching my mom make her welcome, time and time again. And now? We all know her well and love her. She's a wonderful, wonderful person and I enjoy her so much. (And I love watching her and my brother together!) But it took years to get to know her. I think maybe adjusting your expectations about how long it'll take to get to know your son's girlfriend might help.

 

Then, there's my own experience. I'm an introvert and my husband's family (I should say both of his families, since his parents are divorced and there were two distinct sets of in-laws to get to know) overwhelmed me. Oh my goodness. I know them now, and they're great people, but they are so different from my family. Louder, and at the same time, less likely to talk about things. Affectionate. Full of corny jokes. Full of expectations that weren't bad, but that felt like pitfalls to me, because I didn't know they were there. (I drove 24 hours straight cross-country to meet you and you expect me to help put the floor in on the laundromat you own? Really? I've never met you before and you expect me to hug you? I don't like strangers touching me! Argh!)

 

They're great people. I like them now. They terrified me then. And when I don't know what's expected of me, I get quiet. I don't want to say the wrong thing, so I don't say anything. I want time to sit and watch and observe so that I can learn. I'm sure that came across as cold, but it was just how I handled stressful situations. I didn't want to say the wrong thing so I didn't say anything.

 

And stressful situations are better handled in discrete units. I didn't want to spend hours and hours and days and days with my in-laws. I wanted recovery time! (Introvert. :) )

 

I guess what I'm saying is: there's a chance she's a horrible person. There's also a chance she's just trying her best, and her best isn't what you expect, just like your best isn't what she expects. When the latter is the case, it just takes time. The goodwill will carry the day (it did in my case; I love my in-laws!), it's just that the goodwill takes time to work its magic. Be kind and hang in there. It'll be okay.

[Mrs Mungo]

This has been exactly what I've been thinking as I've read this thread.

 

There are two unrelated (IMO) issues here. The first is a painfully shy new girlfriend. I don't see her behavior as rude. Give her time and space to be welcome to be herself and move at her own pace in your family and relationship. My guess is she's not an ogre if your son is in love with her.

 

The second issue is that an 18 year old man who has moved out of his parents' home and started college is naturally not going to be as close to his parents as he once was. Girlfriend or not, I doubt you'd have the same relationship with your son now as you did last year. She's not changing him, he's not changing for her...He's growing and maturing. And that is not wrong or bad in any way.

 

I tend to agree.

 

My dh went to military boarding school (because he wanted to) for high school and his first two years of college. He then transferred to a 4 year college to finish his degree, that's where we met.

 

Ultimately? He had not lived with his mom since he was in junior high. I think she blamed/s a lot of things on *me* that were really just part of his growing up process. She honestly doesn't *know* him the way that I do because she hasn't regularly been around him as a grown man.

 

eta: It's *not* your problem, it's not her problem, it's not his problem. It's part of growing up and changes are part and parcel of that.

 

I'm not an introvert at all, and I am quite used to meeting people, conversing with people I don't know, being in group situations, etc. BUT, my MIL stresses me out because she is *so* different from my family. She does things like re-arrange my cabinets or gripe at my kids for coloring something the "wrong" color. It's *stressful* because I'm supposed to treat her like family, but she's not at *all* like any family I ever knew. That has nothing to do with being shy or introverted. Take more time to get to know her. Different can cause stress and growing pains, but that doesn't make it a BAD thing.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Denisemomof4]

For a young man (especially those just in their teens), it is very common for a girlfriend to change how the young man acts. I have seen it in my ds, in my own dh when we were young, in friends' sons, in cousins, and even in my own brother. It isn't always bad, but seems like it is most of the time.

 

That's been my experience, anyway.

 

One of my cousins has a girlfriend that deals with anxiety and is painfully shy - I have never met her even though we have been in the same house on occasion.:D My dc have met her a couple of times when they stay at my aunt's. My aunt has simply accepted that this is how she is and works around it. She would rather have a relationship with her ds and his probably future wife than to worry that the girl isn't like her. They do spend most of their time away from everyone else because of her shyness/anxiety, but my aunt *chooses* not to see it as isolating him from everyone.

 

ETA: I think it is bad because it comes out of the blue and can really hurt his family if they aren't expecting it, not necessarily because the girl is malicious. I think we have expectations about how things are going to be and then they aren't - that is hard, too.

 

this spoke to my heart VERY clearly. THrough my talks with my friend, the posts here, and pm's, I truly realize that this is not my problem. *I* am not the problem. I will apologize to ds in case he heard us talk (he does know of my discomfort, I told him) and I have let him know that I hope they both will still come over after Christmas. Dh needs to apologize, he's the one who had the talk with ds and I wasn't even home.

 

But I truly realize that this is hard to take because we were close. I did NOT expect this to happen. BUT, I understand why, and in part because of you shy people here! It's not my problem. I will welcome her but I will go about my business just as usual.

 

You all are great!

[LostSurprise]

Perhaps more casual get-togethers are in order.

 

Friday night movies.

Board games.

Cookie baking.

Some other thing she's interested in that could be done together without a lot of conversation.

 

It's hard to be the focus of attention. Rather then bend over backward to make her at home (and thus make her even more uncomfortable) do things together with very little attention, conversation, etc. A few comments to her will be fine but otherwise ignore her and accept her as part of the family..a quiet part. Let the family ocean wash over her. Once she knows you it will be easier. That could take many months. You all need to stop trying so hard.

 

I also would be (almost) totally honest with your son. Let him know your feelings of inadequacy with his gf. Let him know you want to make it work and you may need his suggestions.

 

Frankly I find most of the young couple's behavior perfectly normal.

[Denisemomof4]

DH and I emotionally "ran away" together when we started dating (he was 14, I was 16). Family gatherings were taxing, and I'll fully admit I gave a lot of one word responses, smiles, and nods. I didn't want to be questioned. I didn't want to tell DH's conservative, well-off Baptist family where I lived (trailer park), what church I went to (Catholic), if my parents were divorced (they never married, I'm a b*stard child). DH's mother died when he was young, it was horribly traumatic, and he did NOT want to talk about it. He also did the same smile, nod, and one-word response thing to avoid that topic ever coming up. Now that most of our families understand our backgrounds, it's easier to converse without touchy topics coming up. We don't have to hide in the other room to avoid interrogation.

 

DH has ALWAYS been more comfortable with my family than I am with his, because my mom has loved him like a son since the day I brought him home, even when he was shy and barely talking. Because of DH's poorly integrated step family, it was harder to feel "loved and accepted" amidst the fighting and passive-aggressive behavior. DH talks to my mom almost daily, and only last week was I able to carry on a text message conversation with FIL without going through my DH.

 

I'd imagine that with a lesbian mother and a preachy father, she doesn't want to small talk about her family and will keep quiet to avoid doing so. If your son lets her know that you know about her family, accept her, and will not bring it up in conversation, things might go more smoothly.

 

I'd hold off on the lunch and shopping thing for a while. If she's terrified to reveal too much of herself in a family discussion, one-on-one time with her boyfriend's mother is just too much too fast. DH and I have been together for 11 years, married for 5. Two years ago was the first time I spent a meal with an in-law without my DH present.

 

Teenagers do weird things when they are dating though. My brother had a girlfriend who would have him pick up Burger King and bring it over a half hour before a family dinner because she hadn't eaten lunch. Then she took a full plate of food at dinner... and ate two bites. Same story when we'd go out to eat for dinner, eat an hour or so earlier, order an expensive item off the menu (or an appetizer), then take two bites. It was bizarre, but her parents were divorcing and pretty much stopped grocery shopping. She had some food security issues. We tried to be understanding, but it was really frustrating.

 

I am really learning from all of you who have BEEN that girl, as well as from everyone else. I have learned so much here!!!

[Denisemomof4]

I think it is different with girls and boys. Girls seem to stick to their own families and bring their boyfriends/husbands with them. Boys seem to end up with their wives' families because that is where their love is, not that they are turning their back on their own family. My father has had some issues with this with my brother and his wife, but I see it differently than he does.

 

this is what I've been reading about just this week. Not what I expected but I will have to learn to deal with it. My friend who's known me for 14 years now, the one who has BTDT and helped so much yesterday, told me she knows N. will return to me one day. She's seen us through the years.

 

I just need to act as though nothing new is going on, and that's what I'm going to do.

[Denisemomof4]

No words of wisdom, but if it makes you feel any better...

 

Looking NOW, through the eyes of my MIL, I'd have been terrified. Here is my son, young, head on his shoulders, life laid out, working two jobs, going to college.... He brought home this sassy, rude, little girl four years his junior, still in high school. Could he have made a WORSE decision?!!?

 

She was polite. She was kind. She was thoughtful.

 

We've had our share of clashes, but overall, she was a queen compared to how I was.

 

I can honestly say we get along quite well and I love her very much now.

 

She can honestly say I'm a good wife, absolutely devoted to the care and love of her son and her grandchildren.

 

We're all shocked.

 

I know this isn't much comfort NOW and I'd feel awful if I were in your position. But maybe it's some comfort.

 

And often, when we raise young men to care and protect and love, they look for someone who needs care and protection, kwim? So she seems fragile. And he, as her knight in shining armor, comes to the rescue. It's what our hero boys do - they rescue and protect. And we love them extra for that too, kwim?

 

This is my son. He is SO MUCH like me. All through the years we have helped out so many people in need. When ds turned 12 he gave up his Saturdays to help the homeless. He is always the shoulder to lean on in a crowd. He has seen me take people in, help people out, and heck, we have a rescue farm (self funded) with over 40 animals. He's caring and compassionate and I can see why he's with someone so needy. I do worry, though, that she's going to burn him out. He's already had issues with this. But he's her knight in shining armor and I'm SO proud of him. He's so protective. I'm telling you that ANY mother or father would be so proud and comforted to have my son as their SIL.

 

I know I've been warm and welcoming, and hopefully one day she'll come around. I'm learning that she is not my problem to fix. And ds is trying so hard to help/fix her, too!

[Tap]

Have you tried asking ds to set up a meeting at a place she is more comfortable? A favorite restaraunt, art museum, zoo.....etc. Some place that she may feel less out of her element? How about going to a movie and dinner, so 1/2 of the night needs no talking and the conversation at dinner can have a topic (the movie).

 

What is her college major.....are there any lecture series going on that you could invite her to? If she is lacking confidence, she may feel more comfortable in an environment that she knows something about.

 

Think about your next encounter from her point of view. How would you feel as an outgoing person, in a very quiet, household where eye contact is discouraged, talking is supposed to be a minimum and meekness is expected. You wouldn't feel comfortable either.

 

I would try to allow her to be herself when around, and just appreciate that your son is still himself when she isn't there. Imagine that when she is around, that your son is trying to be an ambassador to this foreign world for her.

 

If the holidays are too stressful for all of you, then ask ds to keep it to just family for now, but make a point to invite her on the 26th or whatever day is available. I don't think that you have to include new girlfriends/boyfriends into holiday events. Once they are in the picture on a more permanent basis, over a year or so, maybe, but before that...I don't think that they need to be there.

 

He gets that she is different, I would ask him for ideas on how to handle it. It sounds like he wants to bring the two halves together. Let him know that while she seems like the type of person who wants to participate in your family's activities, and that she may prefer to do that in smaller chunks until she is more comfortable. Maybe she would prefer to have something to do while she is there. Maybe ask if he and she would like to come over and make you and dh dinner. OR invite them over for a painting party if you have a room that needs a make over. Maybe ask them to help with yard work in the spring. Anything that gives them a purpose to be there, and something to do while there.

 

I used to HATE going to my MILs house to just sit there, with awkward conversations. She and I are night and day and had nothing in common. It was as drastic as the fact that she owned a tanning salon at the time, and even as a teen I avoided the sun due to high skin cancer risks. I love nature and simplicity, she loved heavily decorated items, even using marble wallpaper to create faux marble columns in her home. She was German and loved heavy, meat/potato/dumpling dense dinners. I like fresh veggies, rice and very small meat portions so even eating at her home was hard for me.

 

She thought I was a stuck up B because I was quiet. It wasn't that I was quiet to be snobby, I was actually trying hard to be nice....I just didn't want to offend her with our extreme differences. I really didn't have anything to say that wouldn't contradict her preferences. I was raised as a 'don't say anything if you can't say something nice...so I didn't say much.'

 

It seems like you son walks easily between the two worlds, I would ask him for ideas. I am sure he understands that you can't just step into her intimate space, but it seems like that is where she is most comfortable. If he is having to work to even draw her out to the table, maybe that is all your going to get for now. Over time, as her comfort level raises and you find more topics of conversation, then she may come out more. I would let your son know that while she is welcome, that you do expect him to still participate with the table guests and to not exclude others in the room. He needs to make sure that he is being a good family member, as well as a good host.

[Denisemomof4]

This was a wonderful post. My dh came from a conservative family to my very liberal one. He was very shy at first, but they just accepted him...even when they knew he was judging them. It didn't take long for dh to look at my mom like his own mother. He then began to really understand why I felt so akward at his house. At mine you just were...you were shy, you were outgoing...it didn't matter. At his it was different.

 

I'm not sure how my family did it. All I know is they didn't expect him to be anyone, but himself. Maybe that's the difference...they had no expectations (other than he treat me well) so there wasn't a way for him to disappoint. Their happiness and enjoyment was seperate from his actions.

 

 

I have said this MANY times to dh. If she treats him as well as he treats her, if she places an importance on HIM and HIS needs as much as he does hers, then we can't ask for anything more. If she can make him happy, then I am happy. Dh is coming to terms with it all.

[simka2]

I have said this MANY times to dh. If she treats him as well as he treats her, if she places an importance on HIM and HIS needs as much as he does hers, then we can't ask for anything more. If she can make him happy, then I am happy. Dh is coming to terms with it all.

 

:hurray:

[Denisemomof4]

Honestly, for the life of me I cannot think what this girl has done wrong to your family.:confused:

 

If your son is changing, he is a grown young man and that is his choice. My mil said all the things you have said. We met when dh and I were 16. She blamed me for a lot of stuff she didn't want to admit was her precious son. If he was changing, it was his choice and he LIKED the person he was changing into. If he wasn't talking to his parents, it was because he felt he already knew just how not well it would go over with them. If I had even a 10th of the power over him they allotted to me, I could have taken over the world with my special abilities.;)

 

Dh spent nearly all his time with me, he endured my family to a small degree for my sake. I wasn't comfortable in his parents house. We couldn't relax there. He wanted to be with me and we both wanted out of the stress filled houses, so we didn't spend much time around his parents. And truth be told, they liked it that way because they didn't like me.

 

It sounds like your house is very stress-filled these days and your son is simply choosing to stay out of it and avoid it. I would hesitate to blame it all on her. From your description of dinner, I have to admit if I'd been the gf at the table, I'd have kept my mouth as shut as possible and left pronto too. I sure wouldn't be looking to go shopping with either of you. It doesn't mean you or dh were horrid, but it sure doesn't sound like an Emma Bombeck polite dinner conversation situation either, kwim?

 

Idk. I bet my boys are going to break my heart too.:grouphug:

 

My only advice is to presume these two are going to get married, which means you need to treat her like a new found long lost daughter. Which means it is simply not an option to even remotely suggest she is not welcome at any time.

 

I'd pull son aside and just tell it like it is. Your family is really stressed and having a hard time right now and it's causing you and dh to be more difficult than usual. But that if he loves this girl, she is welcome in your home and you hope she can find a way to be merciful towards any of your faults and you will extend the same grace by trying to avoid finding fault in her. That you miss him and would like to have them over for dinner on a regular basis. Say Wednesday nights or whatever.

 

I know that would have gone a long way with my husband. In fact, it still would with both of us.

 

wow, this is rather harsh. This must be why I got a few pm's while I stepped away.

 

I'm not blaming her. I told dh that I blame ds more than HER for not integrating with our family at all. We've had hundreds of people in our home through the years, including shy ones. We've never been in a more uncomfortable situation. I'm NOT saying it's all her, but it's really going out on a limb to talk to me the way you did. House filled with stress? No. But it is filled with sadness as we adjust to holidays with deceased family members. It's sad, we will learn our way through it.

 

I'm certain my ds and his gf can relax here and they do. But nobody in our faimly was prepared for ds and gf to completely ignore us. We're learning here, too. Cut us some slack.

[Avila]

I have also been this girl, and I just want to encourage you to have patience and not take this girl and her personality so personally toward you. I would guess she has been feeling at least as uncomfortable with you and your family as you have been with her. And now she knows not only that you feel uncomfortable around her, but that it is bad enough that your son has been asked not to bring her back. Even if he meant it only for the holiday, that isn't how she and your son are going to take it or feel it, you know?

 

If she is shy already, now knowing your family doesn't like her is not going to help that any. She probably feels like she HAS been putting herself and making an effort out just by coming to your house, and that obviously hasn't been good enough, so what does she have left to offer you and what incentive does she now have to try any harder?

 

I know you mean well, but if you put all the blame on her for your son changing and have these feelings toward her, you could end up driving them both away for good. And I know you aren't trying to do that. I think this is just a big mess of misunderstanding of extrovert versus introvert, and it would be terrible if that set the tone for everything that comes after.

 

I think the best thing you can do now is to take your son out to lunch and explain how your hurt feelings, feeling closed out of his life right now and the holiday stress caused you to say things you didn't mean. And tell him that he and the girlfriend are welcome in your home and how you would like to get to know her better, on her terms.

 

:grouphug:

[funschooler5]

Perhaps more casual get-togethers are in order.

 

Friday night movies.

Board games.

Cookie baking.

Some other thing she's interested in that could be done together without a lot of conversation.

 

It's hard to be the focus of attention. Rather then bend over backward to make her at home (and thus make her even more uncomfortable) do things together with very little attention, conversation, etc. A few comments to her will be fine but otherwise ignore her and accept her as part of the family..a quiet part. Let the family ocean wash over her. Once she knows you it will be easier. That could take many months. You all need to stop trying so hard.

 

I also would be (almost) totally honest with your son. Let him know your feelings of inadequacy with his gf. Let him know you want to make it work and you may need his suggestions.

 

Frankly I find most of the young couple's behavior perfectly normal.

 

:iagree:

 

As another shy person here, I think a less formal get-together would be wonderful...something that will take the focus off of direct conversations. Just spending time together even sitting side by side, laughing at a movie or a board game, can break the ice a little bit. I remember how terrified I was at the first few formal gatherings with DH's family. My family is very informal during the holidays (and I'm an only child, so it was just the three of us) so I was not used to all of the conversations, seating arrangments, etc. It took me a few years to get used to all of the noise and different traditions (and I still do get nervous going into these situations), but that is just a part of who I am. It is a lot easier now though, because I know everyone so well now. I think that if you can slowly build up a relationship with this girl, she will eventually open up to you.

[Denisemomof4]

Well, there's shy and then there's rude, and I can't quite tell from the posts which is going on here.

 

When DH and I were newlyweds and living in the same town as his family, my BIL had a girlfriend that had some issues integrating with the family. They used to sit in the same room as the rest of us, but instead of joining in the conversation or even just listening to the conversation, they would whisper and giggle back and forth between each other, totally ignoring the rest of us. :glare: It did not endear her to the family.

Watching my BIL introduce first this girlfriend and later the woman who became his wife to the family really made me appreciate how much my DH did to smooth my entry into the family. (He did a much better job than I did introducing him to mine.)

 

:grouphug: I hope that you are able to smooth this over and that things get better from here.

 

THIS is EXACTLY what is going on and it IS rude. I have to say again, though, I hold ds more at fault than her. Some of you here have made me feel like crap but really, it's NOT me that is the problem. This is RUDE behavior, shy or not, and thank you SO much for pointing this out.

 

They will also ignore people who address them, ignore comments, etc. It is RUDE and ds has NEVER been like this before.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm not blaming her. I told dh that I blame ds more than HER for not integrating with our family at all. We've had hundreds of people in our home through the years, including shy ones. We've never been in a more uncomfortable situation.

 

But, this is not at all the same. Meeting new potential *family members* is not at all the same. It's going to take a while for you to be comfortable with each other. That doesn't make either one of you *wrong*.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, you don't need to be fixed. She doesn't need to be fixed. You just need to feel out your relationship. :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug: I think it is pretty common for the woman's family to receive preferential treatment. Man is loyal to woman. Woman is loyal to her family. I saw this with my parents. I saw this with my aunts/uncles. I see this with myself and my siblings. I have known a few couples where this is flip-flopped, but not many.

 

When I all I had were boys I was very, very, very sad knowing that they would get married and I would be the in-law instead of the MOM. It seems quite natural for man to cleave to wife but it can be quite harder for wife to separate from her mom especially if they have a close relationship.

 

I think it became quite evident to me when I started having babies. My mother came and stayed with me for a week with each one. I wanted this, needed this, loved this. My mil dropped by and left soon after. I was glad she came and glad she left. I don't dislike my mil but she is NOT my mom and she can stress me out because we see the world differently. My mom and I were on the same page. She was my mentor. My brother is leaving and cleaving to his wife AND her family. It's sad to feel like we're "losing" him especially now that they have 2 sweet boys. It's hard to feel like the "other" family. My sil is the sweetest thing but we are the "other" family and I get that. My dh's family is the "other" family too.

 

:grouphug:

It's hard being the mom of sons.

 

thank you, sweetie. I've been reading a lot about this lately and am coming to terms with this. If something more happens, I will be beyond thrilled.

[Mrs Mungo]

When DH and I were newlyweds and living in the same town as his family, my BIL had a girlfriend that had some issues integrating with the family. They used to sit in the same room as the rest of us, but instead of joining in the conversation or even just listening to the conversation, they would whisper and giggle back and forth between each other, totally ignoring the rest of us. :glare: It did not endear her to the family.

 

THIS is EXACTLY what is going on and it IS rude. I have to say again, though, I hold ds more at fault than her. Some of you here have made me feel like crap but really, it's NOT me that is the problem. This is RUDE behavior, shy or not, and thank you SO much for pointing this out.

 

They will also ignore people who address them, ignore comments, etc. It is RUDE and ds has NEVER been like this before.

 

Okay, this is a bit different. Do you guys ever play games or do things that require a little more interaction? Maybe try something like that.

[NanceXToo]

But, this is not at all the same. Meeting new potential *family members* is not at all the same. It's going to take a while for you to be comfortable with each other. That doesn't make either one of you *wrong*.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, you don't need to be fixed. She doesn't need to be fixed. You just need to feel out your relationship. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: It will take time!

[Denisemomof4]

This has been exactly what I've been thinking as I've read this thread.

 

There are two unrelated (IMO) issues here. The first is a painfully shy new girlfriend. I don't see her behavior as rude. Give her time and space to be welcome to be herself and move at her own pace in your family and relationship. My guess is she's not an ogre if your son is in love with her.

 

The second issue is that an 18 year old man who has moved out of his parents' home and started college is naturally not going to be as close to his parents as he once was. Girlfriend or not, I doubt you'd have the same relationship with your son now as you did last year. She's not changing him, he's not changing for her...He's growing and maturing. And that is not wrong or bad in any way.

FWIW, he's still at home and he was even more open with me the first three months of their relationship. He's become increasingly closer to her family since then.

[Avila]

THIS is EXACTLY what is going on and it IS rude. I have to say again, though, I hold ds more at fault than her. Some of you here have made me feel like crap but really, it's NOT me that is the problem. This is RUDE behavior, shy or not, and thank you SO much for pointing this out.

 

They will also ignore people who address them, ignore comments, etc. It is RUDE and ds has NEVER been like this before.

 

But maybe she doesn't see this is rude. I don't mean to be obtuse, but every family is different, and every dynamic is different. Maybe she hasn't had the life experience to understand normal families and really doesn't get that your family would want to include her in that way. Maybe she is just really stressed by a group of people she doesn't know and deals with it by talking to the one person she DOES know.

 

I don't mean to keep defending her, since I am not there and I really don't know her. But lots of young people (especially with dysfunctional backgrounds) would totally not understand they were being rude by excluding you in this way. She may just not understand your expectations here because they aren't normal for her. She and your son may act exactly the same around her family, but they don't find it rude and accept it as normal, you know? Or she may just be young enough not to see things outside her own wants and needs right now. Either way, I wouldn't automatically think she KNOWS you think this is rude and they are doing it anyhow.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Asenik

[simka2]

FWIW, he's still at home and he was even more open with me the first three months of their relationship. He's become increasingly closer to her family since then.

 

Did something around the time he started spending more time with her family?

[simka2]

She may just not understand your expectations here because they aren't normal for her. She and your son may act exactly the same around her family, but they don't find it rude and accept it as normal, you know? Or she may just be young enough not to see things outside her own wants and needs right now. Either way, I wouldn't automatically think she KNOWS you think this is rude and they are doing it anyhow.

 

You phrase this wonderfully! It was something I was trying to say in a pm and just couldn't get across.

 

In my family, willfully trying to pull someone into a conversation they aren't ready for would be considered rude.

Different families have different rules/expectations.

 

Sometimes, when your shy, just being able to converse with one person, in the same room with other people is a big deal!

 

Denise, I was not trying to be inconsiderate to you. My heart just goes out to young woman who is so shy she was held back in school, and has been told she's not welcome at Christmas. I know you guys are going to try and repair that, and I trully hope you do. :001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

I'm sorry you're having such a stressful time during the holidays. It sounds like you'd have a lot more resources to handle the bf/gf stuff if you didn't have the other stressers.

 

Since you've said other people's experiences have been helpful to you thinking through this, may I offer a couple of my own? One was getting to know my sister-in-law. Talk about painfully shy! I had very few more-than-one-word answers from her the whole time she and my brother were dating. She just took a long, long, long time to get comfortable. And I know that was hard for my mom. But I remember just watching my mom make her welcome, time and time again. And now? We all know her well and love her. She's a wonderful, wonderful person and I enjoy her so much. (And I love watching her and my brother together!) But it took years to get to know her. I think maybe adjusting your expectations about how long it'll take to get to know your son's girlfriend might help.

 

Then, there's my own experience. I'm an introvert and my husband's family (I should say both of his families, since his parents are divorced and there were two distinct sets of in-laws to get to know) overwhelmed me. Oh my goodness. I know them now, and they're great people, but they are so different from my family. Louder, and at the same time, less likely to talk about things. Affectionate. Full of corny jokes. Full of expectations that weren't bad, but that felt like pitfalls to me, because I didn't know they were there. (I drove 24 hours straight cross-country to meet you and you expect me to help put the floor in on the laundromat you own? Really? I've never met you before and you expect me to hug you? I don't like strangers touching me! Argh!)

 

They're great people. I like them now. They terrified me then. And when I don't know what's expected of me, I get quiet. I don't want to say the wrong thing, so I don't say anything. I want time to sit and watch and observe so that I can learn. I'm sure that came across as cold, but it was just how I handled stressful situations. I didn't want to say the wrong thing so I didn't say anything.

 

And stressful situations are better handled in discrete units. I didn't want to spend hours and hours and days and days with my in-laws. I wanted recovery time! (Introvert. :) )

 

I guess what I'm saying is: there's a chance she's a horrible person. There's also a chance she's just trying her best, and her best isn't what you expect, just like your best isn't what she expects. When the latter is the case, it just takes time. The goodwill will carry the day (it did in my case; I love my in-laws!), it's just that the goodwill takes time to work its magic. Be kind and hang in there. It'll be okay.

 

this is wonderful! Thank you for sharing!!!

[Mom0012]

my boys know that I've always raised them to honor their wives and keep them first in their lives. They know how I feel about that. The transfer of loyalty would have been an issue with me if it hadn't happened.

 

What I didn't expect was for them to love and be loyal to her family and not ours, when ds was so close to me and my other ds. That's not fair and not acceptable by me, but I'm getting up the courage to just let it all go and focus on things that truly need my attention.This has all been a process!

 

You know, it's probably just because she's shy and you son is not. She feels comfortable around her family, but not yours. He doesn't have that obstacle. If you can give it some time, she will probably come around.

 

I was very shy when my husband and I met and did not want to be around his parents at all. I had been warned that his mother was difficult, so that put me off, but mostly I was just shy until I had my children and then I changed.

 

Lisa

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I have said this MANY times to dh. If she treats him as well as he treats her, if she places an importance on HIM and HIS needs as much as he does hers, then we can't ask for anything more. If she can make him happy, then I am happy. Dh is coming to terms with it all.

 

This would make all the difference. In my unfortunate brother's case, it was not so. I hope she treats your son well and that you all clear the air and get along.

[Pink Fairy]

They will also ignore people who address them, ignore comments, etc. It is RUDE and ds has NEVER been like this before.

 

 

Wow. That IS really rude. Even shyness doesn't excuse that, and since your son isn't shy, I would call him on it--right then and there. I think I have a better understanding of why your husband just doesn't want to deal with them (and it's a them, since your son only behaves like this when he's with her, right?).

[Denisemomof4]

[/size][/color]

 

 

 

Okay, this is a bit different. Do you guys ever play games or do things that require a little more interaction? Maybe try something like that.

 

we haven't played games with her and we've done lighter things to make it all less threatening, like apple picking, baking, time in the barn.

 

I really understand, though, that I just need to give it time. I still DO think it's rude to sit and whisper and giggle in our midst, but they are kids and we aren't. Dh feels ds needs to help integrate her better, reading all of this just makes me want to walk away and not try so hard. I think that's best.

 

Simka - nothing "happened" to make ds spend more time with the family, that started from day one. I know they have a lot of issues they've been trying to work out and they have decided to keep them private and not include the families, and I told ds that was the right thing to do.

 

At the time he started talking less is when college and job started up, but it's also when dh and I had a long talk with him about becoming more responsible (he's needed a kick in the pants all to often these past couple of years) and I told him if he didn't want to do it for himself, do it for her. That if they married, she deserved to be taken care of. But it's not something he had already heard before and the issues we discussed with him were issues we had with him before she ever entered the picture.

[*Inna*]

You know, I was a girl like that at some point of my life.

 

My boyfriend was from a big family, all boys. Very loud, rambunctious, always teasing each other, pranks etc. I'm an only child. There was also language barrier.

 

He really wanted his family to get to know me. All I wanted is to be left alone. Every visit was like a thing I need to survive.

 

Obviously, I don't know your family dynamics, just offering another perspective.

[katilac]

Aw, come on guys, young lovers whispering to each other on the sofa is adorable, not rude! Okay, maybe a bit rude as well, but also? So. freakin'. cute! I have a HUGE extended family, and I've seen this again and again and again. All of the ignored people just grin at each other.

 

Young lovers will do what young lovers do, and you guys have the choice of either taking it personally, or sitting back and enjoying the show.

 

This girl is shy and quite, quite young. I promise you that she is painfully aware of the "we don't think you're good for him" vibes, which is enough to make anyone commence radio silence. I'm not saying you weren't warm and welcoming, I'm not saying you ever implied anything, but I am saying most young girls have highly accurate radar for this.

 

I honestly wouldn't do anything to try to 'fix' the situation (other than apologizing to ds for telling him not to bring her, and to her if she is aware of this). Honestly, if my now m-i-l had suggeted lunch or baking cookies, just us, I would have been HORRIFIED, lol. I liked her just fine, but I didn't know her, and I knew very well that I was sitting on the hot seat. Every new boyfriend/girlfriend knows this ;).

 

Very gently, I'd suggest that the other stressors in your lives are making this into more than what it needs to be. First love is overwhelming! It shakes your world up like a snow globe; of course ds is acting differently. This is a time of sweet, special memories for them. It can be for you, too.

[Denisemomof4]

You phrase this wonderfully! It was something I was trying to say in a pm and just couldn't get across.

 

In my family, willfully trying to pull someone into a conversation they aren't ready for would be considered rude.

Different families have different rules/expectations.

 

Sometimes, when your shy, just being able to converse with one person, in the same room with other people is a big deal!

 

Denise, I was not trying to be inconsiderate to you. My heart just goes out to young woman who is so shy she was held back in school, and has been told she's not welcome at Christmas. I know you guys are going to try and repair that, and I trully hope you do. :001_smile:

 

I know you didn't PM me to be inconsiderate. I really do. :grouphug: But as a pp said, it really IS rude behavior to sit in the midst of others, whisper and giggle, and not comment on or acknowledge when someone is talking to you. It is rude, and the rest of my family deserves to have a peaceful Christmas, and we will have one. BUT, I do wish dh hadn't spoken to ds, and I've asked him to apologize.

 

I've been going back and forth in my head about what I'll put on the note in the bag and this is what I'm thinking:

 

Haley, I hope these are things you and Nick can share together. Have a WONDERFUL Christmas, and please come see us before you go back to school.

 

Thoughts?

[Avila]

Every visit was like a thing I need to survive.

.

 

I think that is the part that resounds with me too. And it ends up a vicious cycle of: I make myself go, even though it is uncomfortable, but I don't talk much because I can't think of anything to say and the whole thing is overwhelming. They think I am stuck-up, rude, whatever, because I don't talk enough. I react to those feelings and talk less. We are all uncomfortable and now nobody knows what to say because nobody understands the other half of the equation and everyone feels like the other side is rude, demanding, etc. I can't meet their expectations, and they don't even realize they have them because isn't everyone like them? Doesn't everyone have their playbook and know what the rules are? It is frustrating for everyone.

 

Denise, I hope you can move past this with your son and his girlfriend. You will probably have to let go of your feelings for her to get anywhere near comfortable enough to open up to you, but having peace with them will be worth it later. You deserve a nice holiday.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Asenik

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

 

Aw, come on guys, young lovers whispering to each other on the sofa is adorable, not rude! Okay, maybe a bit rude as well, but also? So. freakin'. cute! I have a HUGE extended family, and I've seen this again and again and again. All of the ignored people just grin at each other.

 

Young lovers will do what young lovers do, and you guys have the choice of either taking it personally, or sitting back and enjoying the show.

 

This girl is shy and quite, quite young. I promise you that she is painfully aware of the "we don't think you're good for him" vibes, which is enough to make anyone commence radio silence. I'm not saying you weren't warm and welcoming, I'm not saying you ever implied anything, but I am saying most young girls have highly accurate radar for this.

 

I honestly wouldn't do anything to try to 'fix' the situation (other than apologizing to ds for telling him not to bring her, and to her if she is aware of this). Honestly, if my now m-i-l had suggeted lunch or baking cookies, just us, I would have been HORRIFIED, lol. I liked her just fine, but I didn't know her, and I knew very well that I was sitting on the hot seat. Every new boyfriend/girlfriend knows this ;).

 

Very gently, I'd suggest that the other stressors in your lives are making this into more than what it needs to be. First love is overwhelming! It shakes your world up like a snow globe; of course ds is acting differently. This is a time of sweet, special memories for them. It can be for you, too.

[simka2]

I know you didn't PM me to be inconsiderate. I really do. :grouphug: But as a pp said, it really IS rude behavior to sit in the midst of others, whisper and giggle, and not comment on or acknowledge when someone is talking to you. It is rude, and the rest of my family deserves to have a peaceful Christmas, and we will have one.

 

This is my point though. In some families it IS rude, while in others it ISN"T....different rules ;)

 

I've wondered if the thread was on the special needs board if it would be different. I say that because of the "held back" issue. It doesn't come across as normal shyness, but debilitating shyness.

 

BUT, I do wish dh hadn't spoken to ds, and I've asked him to apologize.

 

I've been going back and forth in my head about what I'll put on the note in the bag and this is what I'm thinking:

 

Haley, I hope these are things you and Nick can share together. Have a WONDERFUL Christmas, and please come see us before you go back to school.

 

Thoughts?

 

:grouphug:'s to you too!!! I definatley have enjoyed our little chat and seeing your side of things.

 

As, far as the note...I might say the first part, "and we would love to see you before you go back to school."

 

The other way sounded a bit like a command :D

[Denisemomof4]

Aw, come on guys, young lovers whispering to each other on the sofa is adorable, not rude! Okay, maybe a bit rude as well, but also? So. freakin'. cute! I have a HUGE extended family, and I've seen this again and again and again. All of the ignored people just grin at each other.

 

Young lovers will do what young lovers do, and you guys have the choice of either taking it personally, or sitting back and enjoying the show.

 

This girl is shy and quite, quite young. I promise you that she is painfully aware of the "we don't think you're good for him" vibes, which is enough to make anyone commence radio silence. I'm not saying you weren't warm and welcoming, I'm not saying you ever implied anything, but I am saying most young girls have highly accurate radar for this.

 

I honestly wouldn't do anything to try to 'fix' the situation (other than apologizing to ds for telling him not to bring her, and to her if she is aware of this). Honestly, if my now m-i-l had suggeted lunch or baking cookies, just us, I would have been HORRIFIED, lol. I liked her just fine, but I didn't know her, and I knew very well that I was sitting on the hot seat. Every new boyfriend/girlfriend knows this ;).

 

Very gently, I'd suggest that the other stressors in your lives are making this into more than what it needs to be. First love is overwhelming! It shakes your world up like a snow globe; of course ds is acting differently. This is a time of sweet, special memories for them. It can be for you, too.

 

Really? Where did I say she wasn't good enough for him? Did you see the post where I said I hope she treats him as well as he does her, if she places importance on his needs as he does hers, I'm happy?

 

to the green above: no radar there. Period.

 

FTR, SHE wanted to come apple picking and bake afterwards. Now I've learned not to invite for that again. SHE didn't know I wanted to take her to lunch. I have learned to back way off and welcome shyness.

 

I really wish some of you weren't so crass. I was only trying and some of you IMO are way out of hand with some of the comments.

[mommaduck]

Oy, this sounds like one of my brothers' relationships. It didn't last. He finally married another shy girl, but one that at least accepted being included in the family (even with our wacky mother LOL! The first girl would barely talk to any of us (but she did hold one of my babies for a photo and opened up to me about my mentally disabled aunt stealing her hairbrush...I retrieved it and dealt with the issue). The second actually opened up to me about my mother, ironically she looks like a younger version of my mother only sweeter, and I was able to guide her a bit with our mother's idiosyncrasy.

 

Hugs and prayer that this all worked out. Can you ask your son about her, the best way to include her and get her to open up and ask if he can speak with her about ya'll WANTING to get to know her?

Edited December 23, 2010 by mommaduck

[Mrs Mungo]

I know you didn't PM me to be inconsiderate. I really do. :grouphug: But as a pp said, it really IS rude behavior to sit in the midst of others, whisper and giggle, and not comment on or acknowledge when someone is talking to you. It is rude, and the rest of my family deserves to have a peaceful Christmas, and we will have one. BUT, I do wish dh hadn't spoken to ds, and I've asked him to apologize.

 

Maybe it is rude. BUT, if you keep thinking of it that way you are going to put off vibes that will further isolate her. Try to let that go and look at it as another poster said-cute, young, oblivious lovers. Again, I don't know this girl, none of us do and none of us can know what has passed on *either* side.

 

Here's what I do know. I have 3 younger sisters. Three of us are married. Two of us have dhs that our parents treat like their own kids. The other one? Not so much, I won't go into details, but he is AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL. It does isolate her from the rest of the family when we're talking about paying him off to sign divorce papers (they haven't lived together in several years). I don't know what to do about that, but it's a darn sight bigger set of problems that sitting on the couch together whispering and giggling, I assure you. That's the lens I see it through. It could be a HELLAUVA lot worse, so *I* would try to give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

I've been going back and forth in my head about what I'll put on the note in the bag and this is what I'm thinking:

 

Haley, I hope these are things you and Nick can share together. Have a WONDERFUL Christmas, and please come see us before you go back to school.

 

Thoughts?

 

I would phrase it more like "we'd love to see you again before you head back to school." But, other than that? It's lovely that you're making the gesture.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Mrs Mungo
fixing quote box

[RegGuheert]

Hi Denise,

 

First, let me say :grouphug: for what you and your family are dealing with. It cannot be easy for you, for your DH, your son or his GF.

 

Second, let me say that my perspective is a little different than yours: 1) I am a father and not a mother and 2) I am not a "fixer". To be honest, I cringed when I saw the title to your thread, since I do not view relationship issues as something you "fix", but rather something that you build up or tear down over time. They always need maintenance and are never "fixed".

 

I am also a somewhat strict, conservative Christian head of this household. What I say here is meant in love, so if I it is offensive to you, I apologize in advance.

 

Here are some observations:

 

- I agree there are real red flags in the background of your son's girlfriend. Her background certainly colors her behavior, but know that everyone brings baggage into their relationships, even your son. But her background is NOT her fault. Whether the relationship between your son and his girlfriend can withstand the impact of their combined backgrounds and their environment is between the two of them and God. You likely already do this, but I encourage you to pray for your son, his girlfriend and their relationship as often as you think of it.

 

- I would like to reiterate what silliness7 has said about the man "leaving" his family and "cleaving" to his wife. This is the plan that God has created for families. It is clearly spelled out in Genesis. I agree with a PP who said this is probably hardest for the mother of a son to accept, but it is the way of the world.

 

- I agree with previous posters who suggest that your son's girlfriend is not comfortable at your house. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OF YOU! It may be simply because there are rules in your home and she is not from a home where there are many rules. Regardless of why she feels that way, it seems she clearly does.

 

Here are some of our experiences with our son and his girlfriend. Hopefully this can be helpful to you.

 

As of this summer, our son is dating a wonderful Christian girl whom he met at college last year. She is not an introvert, but rather she loves spending time with the other children her and speaks fairly easily with us. That said, THIS WAS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE! Even though she is comfortable around people, she spent several days when she first visited us to observe us and try to understand this family. She is a public-schooled girl from a small family in a suburban neighborhood. Her parents are currently going through separation and divorce. We are a loud, large homeschooling family in the country. MomsintheGarden is the type of person who talks quite a lot when she is nervous, such as when meeting her son's new girlfriend! :001_smile: As such, I have made it a point to try to be somewhat of a defender of DS20's girlfriend. For instance, I try to carve out openings in conversations to allow her to speak and I halt interrogations if they go on too long or appear to be too uncomfortable. MomsintheGarden and I have also told DS20 and his girlfriend on many occasions that they are welcome here anytime. Over time she opened up to us and interacts with us more now. But when she returns for a visit, it always takes a few hours to a day for her to readjust to us. Still, DS20 and his girlfriend spend much of their time here alone in the corner or whatever. And when he is here without her, he STILL does that because they are always chatting on Skype, etc.

 

My point in the story is that I'm not convinced that DS20's girlfriend could have EVER gotten used to us if she were introverted. We are simply too different and likely UNCOMFORTABLE to many people who have more mainstream lifestyles. That may be the case with your son's girlfriend. Rather than being upset or critical of her/their behavior, you may have to work much harder to create a comfortable atmosphere for her and your son. I do not agree that leaving it alone is enough. There will need to be an active attempt to improve the environment. The suggestion to ask your son how you might best do this is a great one, IMO.

 

In any case, I hope this is helpful.

 

Blessings,

[Denisemomof4]

I think that is the part that resounds with me too. And it ends up a vicious cycle of: I make myself go, even though it is uncomfortable, but I don't talk much because I can't think of anything to say and the whole thing is overwhelming. They think I am stuck-up, rude, whatever, because I don't talk enough. I react to those feelings and talk less. We are all uncomfortable and now nobody knows what to say because nobody understands the other half of the equation and everyone feels like the other side is rude, demanding, etc. I can't meet their expectations, and they don't even realize they have them because isn't everyone like them? Doesn't everyone have their playbook and know what the rules are? It is frustrating for everyone.

 

Denise, I hope you can move past this with your son and his girlfriend. You will probably have to let go of your feelings for her to get anywhere near comfortable enough to open up to you, but having peace with them will be worth it later. You deserve a nice holiday.

 

and one last time, I think it is DS'S responsibility to make things more comfortable.

 

What you said here is why I think maybe it's better off for now to just let things go. I would like to see her again, but I do think sit down meals are VERY threatening to a shy person. When she comes over again, or if, I would like to allow them the freedom to sit alone, not talk to us, be thankful they're in our house, go about my business, but just let her be. I honestly never could have understood how painful something this could have been without you shy people helping me out. I thank you all for that!