please help us fix this problem

[Denisemomof4]

I never thought I'd be an inlaw someone wouldn't like. I am outgoing and easy to talk to, easy to get along with. My kid's friends always thought I was the cool parent, but now my kids see this differently. Oh well.:glare:

 

Ds brings his first gf home. She's EXTREMELY shy. But being shy isn't the only thing. As time goes on, it's plain UNCOMFORTABLE around her. I try to talk to her, I really do. She answers, very short answers. Getting her to talk is like pulling teeth. Ds and she isolate themselves and don't even really try to talk to anyone in our family. It's always so awkward with her around. Ds actually changes who HE is when he's with her and it's just so uncomfortable for every person in our family. Younger ds goes on and on about this and dh is very unhappy, and then it wears on me. I talked to older dd and she agrees, she's VERY uncomfortable around them.

 

On Thanksgiving they came for a couple of hours. Ds ate dinner, she had a few bites (WAY skinny, as in underweight, but she had already eaten with her family anyway) but at the table it was so uncomfortable. Dh was already upset because his mother called and yelled that she was going to call the police on him if he didn't allow her to go home (dementia and in a nursing home but her pattern all through out life was to try to ruin his holidays. We won't be picking up anymore when she calls on a holiday and we won't feel an ounce of guilt over that!) We rarely see them as they spend 98% of their time with her family. It seems to me that their relationship, a first for both of them, revolves around her, her needs, her family, her, her, her. I know ds has some frustrations with her but I'm staying out of it completely. I know that she likes to be in her own safety net but really, I have tried. I worry because they are talking marriage.

 

After dinner when ds went upstairs I asked her if she thought she could pick out some clothing for ds that he likes. I was going to take her to lunch and shopping. She immediately said she didn't think she knew what his taste was and I just brushed it off. They spent a couple of hours with us and left. I thought they would spend the evening with us but I now realize that's not going to happen.

 

Anyway, we are having a very hard time adjusting to the holidays without my parents, and mil calling and causing a ruckus just put a damper on our holiday. Having gf there to make things really uncomfortable was really too much for us. So dh told ds not to bring her around for Christmas.

 

Well, although ds isn't talking about it, that has really ruined our relationship with her completely. I was talking with a friend who has already walked down this road and she said that dh doing that likely changed our relationship forever and that we have a lot of fence mending to do. I know she's right but for now, we just want to get through Christmas and not address this. Ds really doesn't want to talk about it and I can tell that his gf has no intentions of coming around again.

 

I'm so sad because ds and I were so close but now with gf in the picture, he's completely cut me out of his life. And I expect him to put her first (I've always told my boys how they need to treat their wife and I'm sticking to it with gf's no matter what! I'm SO proud of my ds and how he treats her!) but he really doesn't want to "hear" me anymore. Without really telling me, I just know she's not going to come around anymore.

 

How in the world do we rectify this?

 

Please don't bash us. We're having a really hard time with the holidays and we made a mistake.

[Parrothead]

Invite the girlfriend and her family to dinner. Probably too late and way to stressful to do it for Christmas. Maybe you could do it for New Year's or just any Saturday evening.

 

Keep talking to your son even though you think he doesn't hear you.

[simka2]

I'm not quite understanding how you made a mistake. Could you clarify?

 

I think back when I first met my in-laws, my mother in law could have written this post. Truthfully, there were things already done that had closed me off, she just didn't realize it...and I just wanted out!!!

 

This can just be so hard!!!!

[LG Gone Wild]

No advice about repairing but just :grouphug:.

 

Sounds like your ds is infatuated with a wounded, moody *flower*. Hopefully he will mature out of it. Nothing you can do but remain calm and sound nonchalant about her. You know, adopt that "Whaaateeevvverrrrr" attitude, otherwise your ds will dig his heels in about her no matter what she does. I wouldn't bother trying to be nice or accommodating. I would be civil (not in a cold way). She sounds like a pill.

[Unicorn.]

Invite the girlfriend and her family to dinner. Probably too late and way to stressful to do it for Christmas. Maybe you could do it for New Year's or just any Saturday evening.

 

Keep talking to your son even though you think he doesn't hear you.

 

:iagree: Inviting her family will send her a message that you do care, and want to get to know them better. It will also be harder for her to get out of it. Seeing her family together will also give you some insight into their family dynamics, and maybe give you some ideas of how to get her to warm up. Maybe. :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

Invite the girlfriend and her family to dinner. Probably too late and way to stressful to do it for Christmas. Maybe you could do it for New Year's or just any Saturday evening.

 

Keep talking to your son even though you think he doesn't hear you.

 

You know, my friend said to call the mom. We met once and it was wonderful but I'm going to be WAY out of my comfort zone to do this (the parents are divorced and I already know the dad, although nice, is one of those judgmental Christians and I Just Can Not Do It!!!) and I need to keep this to only my son and his gf.

 

I'm not quite understanding how you made a mistake. Could you clarify?

 

I think back when I first met my in-laws, my mother in law could have written this post. Truthfully, there were things already done that had closed me off, she just didn't realize it...and I just wanted out!!!

 

This can just be so hard!!!!

 

we made the mistake by dh telling ds not to bring her around for Christmas.

 

Simka, can you please share what happened to make you already feel closed out? I have really tried to welcome her but she has up walls and really doesn't want to have anything to do with us. I knwo she's very shy, I know she was held back in school because of this as a very young kid. Still, she has friends, she goes to their parent's houses, etc. I dont' know what the issue is with us, but I suspect that ds has issues with our once being legalistic and has had rants, which has added to making her walls impenetrable. KWIM?

[elegantlion]

Invite the girlfriend and her family to dinner. Probably too late and way to stressful to do it for Christmas. Maybe you could do it for New Year's or just any Saturday evening.

 

Keep talking to your son even though you think he doesn't hear you.

 

:iagree:

.

 

Apologize to your son, pass along apologies to the gf. Invite her to dinner or lunch, then take her aside and ask if you can start over on the right foot.

Edited December 23, 2010 by elegantlion

[Night Elf]

I bet it has something to do with the way she interacts with her family. I've gotten that attitude from dd18's friends until they get to know me or hear about me from other friends. They are always surprised that I'm not anything like their parents.

[Denisemomof4]

No advice about repairing but just :grouphug:.

 

Sounds like your ds is infatuated with a wounded, moody *flower*. Hopefully he will mature out of it. Nothing you can do but remain calm and sound nonchalant about her. You know, adopt that "Whaaateeevvverrrrr" attitude, otherwise your ds will dig his heels in about her no matter what she does. I wouldn't bother trying to be nice or accommodating. I would be civil (not in a cold way). She sounds like a pill.

 

this is pretty much what my friend was saying (thank you!) and she was saying to show NO emotion (I've been crying so much about this, and even ds has seen this and not asked one word. I try to hold it in but the holidays are KILLING me this year! That Christmas card thread had me sobbing!) but she says we have to repair this now.

[QueenCat]

:grouphug: My first thought is to have dh tell your ds to invite the young lady over for part of Christmas. Will ds be going to her home for Christmas? To tell ds she is not welcome in your home on Christmas needs to be rectified asap, if you don't want the fence to grow higher, quickly. Even if she doesn't come, she will have been invited. We have a huge fence between us and my inlaws. We are going to their home for the first time in 12 years. We've only seen them twice in that time, both times within the past 4 years. Even if they don't marry, it won't be wasted time, as your doing it for ds. More :grouphug:.

[Denisemomof4]

I bet it has something to do with the way she interacts with her family. I've gotten that attitude from dd18's friends until they get to know me or hear about me from other friends. They are always surprised that I'm not anything like their parents.

 

I'm not sure, but I can tell you that her parents divorced when she was around 9. She has a legalistic Christian father and a liberal homosexual mother. She has HUGE anxiety issues, overthinks things, and is HIGHLY sensitive. She loves to be in the comfort and safety of her own surroundings (I found out the last few things only SINCE Thanksgiving, and this is why it saddens me) and doesn't like to go out much (ds wants to explore the world). Our gatherings are extremely quiet and I doubt intimidating. We have no other family, only my very quiet brother comes. Thank God my sister and her family aren't in our lives, they would have forever scared her away.

 

She went to Ireland to study abroad and was there one day, had a severe panic attack and came home. Being the person I am, I would love to be there for her, to help her. Ds is the "counselor" and rescuer for everyone. I know how hard he tries to help her.

 

So I can understand she has issues, but it's way beyond uncomfortable for all of us. I feel that if we just let it slide and they do marry, we've cut them out. So I want to rectify this now.

 

I do have a little bag of things for them to do together for Christmas. Maybe I'll enclose a little note for ds to show her? What to say?

 

Simka, could your mil have done ANYTHING to help?

[lionfamily1999]

My sweet son, I have been hurt by your dear friend's quietness when she comes visiting. I thought I could fix this by pushing her out of the picture, but I understand now that I was wrong. Please forgive me. I love you and those you love. I want you to know that she is welcome here.

 

----------------------------------------

 

I think one of womankind's biggest issues is the need to fix things. In the Bible, that's where we get in trouble an awful lot. Now, if it was dh who has put his foot down, I would not usurp his authority ;) but if it was you, a gracious apology should work. I have learned that I cannot fix everything :p I've learned that sometimes boundaries are damaging and hinder healing and growth. I've also learned that letting things go the way they will go, without my ineffectual struggling saves me on stress.

 

ETA, I do not count asking forgiveness as "fixing," more like trying to do what should have been done the first time around, if that makes any sense.

 

Also, I read your follow-up and now I wonder if she doesn't just assume that you're like her father (I'm guessing he goes on a bit about his xw sexuality) or else just too good to be true. :( In that case, love her love her love her and apologize to her. Let her know how you felt and that you're sorry. This could be an excellent time for her to see that the entire world is not as scary as she thinks. Poor girl :grouphug:

Edited December 23, 2010 by lionfamily1999

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Everything you described could have been written by my family as we got to know my brother's girlfriend. It was like trying to pull teeth to get anything beside "Hi" out of her. Despite everyone questioning his judgment (yes, directly to him, including me), he married her. Their marriage ended in divorce after 3 years. My brother is devastated and nearly destroyed by this manipulative cow that alienated him from his family and friends. He is going to take a long time to recover. If the girl doesn't seem like a fit for your son, and you genuinely gave her a chance, she probably isn't right for him. My MIL and I don't get along well, but we actually speak and communicate. I get exasperated with her, as I'm sure she does with me, but I don't go out of my way to keep dh from her or anything like that. The gf's behavior seems very controlling and not at all healthy.

 

However, from first hand experience, nothing you say will probably make a difference. If you don't want to lose your son, apologize, include them when you can tolerate it, and just let your son know you are there for him no matter what.

[LG Gone Wild]

this is pretty much what my friend was saying (thank you!) and she was saying to show NO emotion (I've been crying so much about this, and even ds has seen this and not asked one word. I try to hold it in but the holidays are KILLING me this year! That Christmas card thread had me sobbing!) but she says we have to repair this now.

 

There is New Year day still to come. Send an invite for that. Don't try so hard because it will just get her back up.

 

 

Yes, yes, I was a moody flower once.

[simka2]

You know, my friend said to call the mom. We met once and it was wonderful but I'm going to be WAY out of my comfort zone to do this (the parents are divorced and I already know the dad, although nice, is one of those judgmental Christians and I Just Can Not Do It!!!) and I need to keep this to only my son and his gf.

 

 

 

we made the mistake by dh telling ds not to bring her around for Christmas. Ooooh wow. I didn't put that together. I can only answer if it was me at that age. Does she Know that you said that?

 

First, you would have to have a sit down and apologize to your son. As his GF I am who he chose so I think the first apology goes to him. If she was held back this is "real" issue that is beyond her immediate ability to fix. It may take her forever and a Monday to warm up...that's who she is. If she isn't aware it could end here...

 

Otherwise, humility goes a long way. Not shame, beat yourself up type stuff...just genuine humilty. "We messed up. we should have been older and wiser. and we weren't. We understand that you probly won't feel safe around us for a long time. But please know we are so sorry and we would like the chance to show you that we can be safe loveing place for you."

 

"We would love for you to come over for as long or short as you wish."

 

If you can get them to come back...make it light and enjoyable. Maybe throw in a little humor at your own foolishness;)

 

No one is more aware of her issues...than her. It's already cost her. Some of this is just who she is.

 

 

 

Simka, can you please share what happened to make you already feel closed out? I have really tried to welcome her but she has up walls and really doesn't want to have anything to do with us. I knwo she's very shy, I know she was held back in school because of this as a very young kid. Still, she has friends, she goes to their parent's houses, etc. I dont' know what the issue is with us, but I suspect that ds has issues with our once being legalistic and has had rants, which has added to making her walls impenetrable. KWIM?

 

My MIL went out of her way to make feel welcome when I first met them over Christmas( I had to fly in as I lived in another state). The first day I was there we went downstairs to look at some photo's she pulled out my now dh's yearbook, and began pointing out pictures of classmates that had crushes on her son. There had never been so much as a phone call between dh and these girls, but she felt the need to point them out. IT was akward. Little things like that just continued, until I realized that I was being compared to all these other girls...and I wasn't going to be accepted for who I was. I was looking forward to a family that would love me for me, they were Christians right? but it never happened.

 

I now realize there are some pretty serious psychological disorders going on. But if the very first time something like that happened (and yes she knew how putting off it was and that she did it) She had calmly said "You know what? I don't know where my brain went!!!! That must have been so weird for you. Can we have a do over?" Would have worked wonders...instead I overheard her telling her oldest son how hard she was trying, but I was difficult :confused:.

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, being very blunt here,

 

I get it why you're uncomfortable, but this is just part of accepting a new DIL or SIL. She gets to be herself. If you don't like her, you have to decide whether you're going to treat her lovingly or not anyway, and I encourage you to take the long view and channel your inner Aunt Bea and just be very nice and smiley or you may lose your DS and any future relationship with grandchildren. That is what is in the balance here. I'm sorry that it's so, but it clearly is.

 

Again, I'm sympathetic, but consider what you're risking!

 

Regarding Christmas, what your DH did was, frankly, self-indulgent and awful. Is this girl a drug addict or felon? If not, he has done something so bad that it's hard to imagine recovering either your relationship with her or with your DS. I don't know if you can fix it even. I think that your only shot would be for him to apologize and say that he was having a really bad day (insert plausible reason here) and that he didn't mean it, and that he begs her to come. She probably won't, but at least you'll have started to mend fences a bit. Without that, I can't imagine fixing this for years. And, frankly, what can she really do to ruin things for anyone else? If she is just quiet and in a corner, you can decide not to think about that and just keep on going. Yes, your DS is different around her. That's always so in a young relationship. It's not reasonable to expect him not to be.

 

I'm really sorry. I know that I'm being extremely blunt here. I know it's hard. I understand that this girl is difficult to be around. I encourage you nonetheless to rise above all that and be the gracious woman that you truly are, and love your son by loving this girl.

 

:grouphug:

[jg_puppy]

:grouphug: My first thought is to have dh tell your ds to invite the young lady over for part of Christmas. Will ds be going to her home for Christmas? To tell ds she is not welcome in your home on Christmas needs to be rectified asap, if you don't want the fence to grow higher, quickly. Even if she doesn't come, she will have been invited. We have a huge fence between us and my inlaws. We are going to their home for the first time in 12 years. We've only seen them twice in that time, both times within the past 4 years. Even if they don't marry, it won't be wasted time, as your doing it for ds. More :grouphug:.

 

:iagree: I wouldn't call her parents. If my in-laws had done that it would have made me very uncomfortable. This post hits very close to home. Only I am like your son's girlfriend. The best thing to do is to give this time and to be accepting of her when she is around. Find some common interest, but don't stress over it. I can always tell when my MIL is trying too hard. It stresses me out even more when I can tell she is really stressed. This just makes me even more shy. If she would relax I think we would both be happier.

 

Jan

[Denisemomof4]

My sweet son, I have been hurt by your dear friend's quietness when she comes visiting. I thought I could fix this by pushing her out of the picture, but I understand now that I was wrong. Please forgive me. I love you and those you love. I want you to know that she is welcome here.

 

----------------------------------------

 

I think one of womankind's biggest issues is the need to fix things. In the Bible, that's where we get in trouble an awful lot. Now, if it was dh who has put his foot down, I would not usurp his authority ;) but if it was you, a gracious apology should work. I have learned that I cannot fix everything :p I've learned that sometimes boundaries are damaging and hinder healing and growth. I've also learned that letting things go the way they will go, without my ineffectual struggling saves me on stress.

 

ETA, I do not count asking forgiveness as "fixing," more like trying to do what should have been done the first time around, if that makes any sense.

 

Also, I read your follow-up and now I wonder if she doesn't just assume that you're like her father (I'm guessing he goes on a bit about his xw sexuality) or else just too good to be true. :( In that case, love her love her love her and apologize to her. Let her know how you felt and that you're sorry. This could be an excellent time for her to see that the entire world is not as scary as she thinks. Poor girl :grouphug:

 

Because face to face would probably kill her, I'm going to enclose a little note in the gift bag.

 

Dh is the one who said ENOUGH, because his holidays were always ruined by his mother OR my sister, and these are the second holidays with fresh wounds of losing my parents. It's just all around hard. So he said ENOUGH because he didn't want another reason to have our holiday ruined.

 

But I told him I think he was wrong and he agreed. But I have my part in this, too. I know ds heard me upset when he didn't get home until nearly 5 in the morning and it was icing out. He KNOWS I worry about him driving in such weather and it really angers him. So I was telling dh how upset I was over that, how selfish he is, and how it's so uncomfortable with he and H. now. What he doesn't know is that his brother, whom he was VERY close to before the gf, and dh were SO UNCOMFORTABLE in their presence. Really, I could have written it all off, but hearing them complain did me in because you're SO RIGHT. I just want to make everything right. How STUPID that I never saw that.

[LG Gone Wild]

I'm not sure, but I can tell you that her parents divorced when she was around 9. She has a legalistic Christian father and a liberal homosexual mother. She has HUGE anxiety issues, overthinks things, and is HIGHLY sensitive. She loves to be in the comfort and safety of her own surroundings (I found out the last few things only SINCE Thanksgiving, and this is why it saddens me) and doesn't like to go out much (ds wants to explore the world). Our gatherings are extremely quiet and I doubt intimidating. We have no other family, only my very quiet brother comes. Thank God my sister and her family aren't in our lives, they would have forever scared her away.

 

She went to Ireland to study abroad and was there one day, had a severe panic attack and came home. Being the person I am, I would love to be there for her, to help her. Ds is the "counselor" and rescuer for everyone. I know how hard he tries to help her.

 

So I can understand she has issues, but it's way beyond uncomfortable for all of us. I feel that if we just let it slide and they do marry, we've cut them out. So I want to rectify this now.

 

I do have a little bag of things for them to do together for Christmas. Maybe I'll enclose a little note for ds to show her? What to say?

 

Simka, could your mil have done ANYTHING to help?

 

In light of that disclosure, she's probably an octopus. Very murky, moves slowly. She'll put her tentacles out (I don't mean that in an insulting way), every so slowly touching, feeling, investigating, cogitating, watching to make sure there is nothing out there to hurt her.

 

She's still a pill but possibly a manageable one. Just admit the truth about the YOUR emotional vulnerability and that this Christmas YOU were headed for a breakdown. Then add you would like ds and co. over when all this stress has passed, like New Year's Eve or Day.

[myfunnybunch]

I agree with so many things the others wrote that I'll say :iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I think it would go a long way toward mending your relationship with your son if you both sat down with him and said humbly, "Son, we made a mistake. We're sorry that we hurt you." I think you're amazing for being able to say "We made a mistake" even to yourselves. So many people can't take that simple step.

 

And :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

[Mejane]

I understand it is difficult to be around her, but I think it might be a mistake to tell your son not to bring her for christmas. At that age, he will choose her over his own family to make a point.

 

If it were our family, I would instruct everyone to just act normally and go about our usual holiday festivities. If s/he chooses to be involved, great. If not, s/he can sit on the sofa and stare at the wall.

[Denisemomof4]

Everything you described could have been written by my family as we got to know my brother's girlfriend. It was like trying to pull teeth to get anything beside "Hi" out of her. Despite everyone questioning his judgment (yes, directly to him, including me), he married her. Their marriage ended in divorce after 3 years. My brother is devastated and nearly destroyed by this manipulative cow that alienated him from his family and friends. He is going to take a long time to recover. If the girl doesn't seem like a fit for your son, and you genuinely gave her a chance, she probably isn't right for him. My MIL and I don't get along well, but we actually speak and communicate. I get exasperated with her, as I'm sure she does with me, but I don't go out of my way to keep dh from her or anything like that. The gf's behavior seems very controlling and not at all healthy.

 

However, from first hand experience, nothing you say will probably make a difference. If you don't want to lose your son, apologize, include them when you can tolerate it, and just let your son know you are there for him no matter what.

 

this is ringing SO LOUD in my ears. Ds has cut everyone off. My friend I spoke to yesterday talked about how her son cut off his engagement because his fiance kept him from everyone, including her, and now they're so close. I honestly was sharing with ds last night because he was (SHOCKINGLY) home and knows the girl, the fiance, and doesn't like her At All. He asked why T. broke it off with her and when I said she was suffocating and kept him from everyone, he walked away. :001_huh: When he reacted like that I was shocked, overthought it, and then wondered if he thought I was sending a hidden message?:confused::confused::confused:

 

Ds and I always had such an open relationship. I never thought it would come to this. Still, because I love him and I expect him to treat his wife right, I will always respect and support his relationship with this girl, even though I think he deserves more.

[Denisemomof4]

There is New Year day still to come. Send an invite for that. Don't try so hard because it will just get her back up.

 

 

Yes, yes, I was a moody flower once.

 

your words are helping more than you know. THANK YOU!!!:grouphug:

[lionfamily1999]

Because face to face would probably kill her, I'm going to enclose a little note in the gift bag.

Good idea, but make sure that at some point you do something face to face. She needs to know that this isn't just a clandestine forgiveness operation. Nothing huge, don't weep or throw yourself at her feet. A quick, "I'm so sorry" after hello (keep it low key) should work.

Dh is the one who said ENOUGH, because his holidays were always ruined by his mother OR my sister, and these are the second holidays with fresh wounds of losing my parents. It's just all around hard. So he said ENOUGH because he didn't want another reason to have our holiday ruined.

It's so hard not to punish one person for what another person has done :(

But I told him I think he was wrong and he agreed. But I have my part in this, too. I know ds heard me upset when he didn't get home until nearly 5 in the morning and it was icing out. He KNOWS I worry about him driving in such weather and it really angers him. So I was telling dh how upset I was over that, how selfish he is, and how it's so uncomfortable with he and H. now. What he doesn't know is that his brother, whom he was VERY close to before the gf, and dh were SO UNCOMFORTABLE in their presence. Really, I could have written it all off, but hearing them complain did me in because you're SO RIGHT. I just want to make everything right. How STUPID that I never saw that.

Oh dear :(

 

He heard you stabbing him and his sweetheart in the back. :grouphug: Wow, that stinks (for you especially). Oh Denise, if I were you I might just grovel. I will say this. I have done this. It took me time to get all my emotions wrapped up and to straighten out the actual truth of what I had (sometimes we can confuse ourselves on that, ya know). What it boiled down to was that I felt cut out. The reality was, I was being asked to include someone and they weren't of my choosing. I had been selfish, selfcentered, and blind (BLIND) to the blessings of it all. What surprised me was the apology I got after my own apology (complete with sobbing and admitting what an a--hat I had been). If you can believe it, that person and I were closer once it was all said and done. Granted, it wasn't my ds (thank heavens I still have a few years yet), but it was a family member.

 

Oh Denise, I'm so sorry this happened. I'll pray for you, your ds and dh and the young lady. Geez. On the bright side, Christmas is designed as a time of new beginnings, new hope, and reclamation.

[Denisemomof4]

I understand it is difficult to be around her, but I think it might be a mistake to tell your son not to bring her for christmas. At that age, he will choose her over his own family to make a point.

 

If it were our family, I would instruct everyone to just act normally and go about our usual holiday festivities. If s/he chooses to be involved, great. If not, s/he can sit on the sofa and stare at the wall.

 

this is what I now realize, that we all were trying to ignore the elephant in the room. Really, we NEED to ignore it and just go on as usual. Include her when we can, go on about life as if we don't HAVE to address her.

 

Ds will be home with us on Christmas day, with her on Christmas Eve. He will be working 4 hours on Christmas Day and said he will be with us before and after, "because he's always spent Christmas with us." That's what he told us.

[simka2]

Simka, could your mil have done ANYTHING to help?

 

To this day, and the issues have compounded, if my MIL called me and said, "Simka, I'm sorry for everything. These are my issues and I need to work on them. We would love a chance to see you and dh, you pick the how and when...and we will be there!"

 

That's it! but notice what isn't said "Oh, I'm such a horrible person!!! We just don't know what were doing!!!!! and your so different from everyone else in the family....ummm that's a good thing...oh were so horrible!!!"

 

That makes it about them and it's not a genuine apology.

Think about her pain, empathize, and gently go from there...but there is only so much you can control.

[Parrothead]

Everything you described could have been written by my family as we got to know my brother's girlfriend. It was like trying to pull teeth to get anything beside "Hi" out of her. Despite everyone questioning his judgment (yes, directly to him, including me), he married her. Their marriage ended in divorce after 3 years. My brother is devastated and nearly destroyed by this manipulative cow that alienated him from his family and friends. He is going to take a long time to recover. If the girl doesn't seem like a fit for your son, and you genuinely gave her a chance, she probably isn't right for him. My MIL and I don't get along well, but we actually speak and communicate. I get exasperated with her, as I'm sure she does with me, but I don't go out of my way to keep dh from her or anything like that. The gf's behavior seems very controlling and not at all healthy.

 

However, from first hand experience, nothing you say will probably make a difference. If you don't want to lose your son, apologize, include them when you can tolerate it, and just let your son know you are there for him no matter what.

Being a quiet shy introvert married to a quiet shy introvert and raising a quiet shy introvert I've just got to say not all quiet shy introverts are manipulating cows.

[Denisemomof4]

Oh dear :(

 

He heard you stabbing him and his sweetheart in the back. :grouphug: Wow, that stinks (for you especially). Oh Denise, if I were you I might just grovel. I will say this. I have done this. It took me time to get all my emotions wrapped up and to straighten out the actual truth of what I had (sometimes we can confuse ourselves on that, ya know). What it boiled down to was that I felt cut out. The reality was, I was being asked to include someone and they weren't of my choosing. I had been selfish, selfcentered, and blind (BLIND) to the blessings of it all. What surprised me was the apology I got after my own apology (complete with sobbing and admitting what an a--hat I had been). If you can believe it, that person and I were closer once it was all said and done. Granted, it wasn't my ds (thank heavens I still have a few years yet), but it was a family member.

 

Oh Denise, I'm so sorry this happened. I'll pray for you, your ds and dh and the young lady. Geez. On the bright side, Christmas is designed as a time of new beginnings, new hope, and reclamation.

 

Honestly, I humbly disagree. He KNOWS how I worry about him when driving during bad road conditions, and he got his license later and has not even done this a handful of times. That set me off, and it was selfish of him not to consider the right thing, and to consider a curfew of 3:00, which is pretty much the ONLY rule we have. I don't feel that I stabbed anyone in the back, because he know how we all feel. Not that we talk about it all the time, but we DID address it, as we should have. I feel that I let it all out when dh, whom is a SOUND sleeper, got upset at his being home so late. As mom, I try to keep all the eggs lined up in a row, and I had heard all night about how everyone was upset. I wasn't stabbing him in the back, I was unloading on dh, whom along with ds unloaded all night long. I guess I just don't feel it was as bad as what you're portraying and I most definitely won't take this all on. I'm the one constantly trying to be the peacekeeper but I think it's now time to back off, apologize, and just be normal.

 

I feel responsible to a point, but I also think gf and ds have a responsibility to reach out to us, too. That she isn't of my choosing ds doesn't know, it's only come to my attention in the past couple of weeks. That I feel cut out, ds doesn't know. I've done my grovelling and my friend told me I've grovelled too much, and I agree. I can apologize, but I'm not going to try so hard anymore. I think that may have been the problem to begin with. I can overlook, but they have really been rude. It's wearing on ALL of us. I only have a hard time with it when everyone else unloads on me.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[lionfamily1999]

Honestly, I humbly disagree. He KNOWS how I worry about him when driving during bad road conditions, and he got his license later and has not even done this a handful of times. That set me off, and it was selfish of him not to consider the right thing, and to consider a curfew of 3:00, which is pretty much the ONLY rule we have. I don't feel that I stabbed anyone in the back, because he know how we all feel. Not that we talk about it all the time, but we DID address it, as we should have. I feel that I let it all out when dh, whom is a SOUND sleeper, got upset at his being home so late. As mom, I try to keep all the eggs lined up in a row, and I had heard all night about how everyone was upset. I wasn't stabbing him in the back, I was unloading on dh, whom along with ds unloaded all night long. I guess I just don't feel it was as bad as what you're portraying and I most definitely won't take this all on. I'm the one constantly trying to be the peacekeeper but I think it's now time to back off, apologize, and just be normal.

 

I feel responsible to a point, but I also think gf and ds have a responsibility to reach out to us, too. I can overlook, but they have really been rude. It's wearing on ALL of us. I only have a hard time with it when everyone else unloads on me.

Gads, I must have misread. I thought you wrote that he walked in on you talking about his girlfriend. Ugh, I'm sorry Dennis. Really, my head's in cranberry sauce right now.

[LibraryLover]

You can choose your friends, but you cannot choose your relatives...whether by birth or inlaw aquisition. :)

 

I would backtrack. "We're sorry. Please, bring her by for dinner. We need to get to know each other better."

 

People make mistakes, and this isn't going to be the end of the world, or the end of your relationship. Tell him everyone mis-speaks sometimes, esp around emotional holiday times, and you want to fix this and move on.

 

I am one for board games/and or movies when chat is strained. :)

[Denisemomof4]

Gads, I must have misread. I thought you wrote that he walked in on you talking about his girlfriend. Ugh, I'm sorry Dennis. Really, my head's in cranberry sauce right now.

 

no, he didn't, but he may have heard. It's still not a stab in the back. Parents talk. It wasn't he's bad, she's bad, but it WAS, they isolate themselves, they don't talk to anyone, this was an uncomfortable day.

[simka2]

 

 

Okay, I'm a bit confused. You have a girl who is so shy that she was held back in school. How is she being rude?

 

I'm trying to say this nicely, but if I was your son I would be feeling ganged up by my family.

 

I'm sure there is something I am missing. What has this girl done...other than be who she is? (Genuinely asking not trying to be rude at all!!!:D)

[Parrothead]

this is ringing SO LOUD in my ears. Ds has cut everyone off. My friend I spoke to yesterday talked about how her son cut off his engagement because his fiance kept him from everyone, including her, and now they're so close. I honestly was sharing with ds last night because he was (SHOCKINGLY) home and knows the girl, the fiance, and doesn't like her At All. He asked why T. broke it off with her and when I said she was suffocating and kept him from everyone, he walked away. :001_huh: When he reacted like that I was shocked, overthought it, and then wondered if he thought I was sending a hidden message?:confused::confused::confused:

 

Ds and I always had such an open relationship. I never thought it would come to this. Still, because I love him and I expect him to treat his wife right, I will always respect and support his relationship with this girl, even though I think he deserves more.

Denise, I have another perspective for you. Could it be that she isn't manipulating your son? Could it be that she is very shy and very much in love? Could your ds be very much in love with a shy woman and doing what he can to protect her? Could he have promised to do what he could to make her feel comfortable and that means quiet corners away from pesky little brothers? Could the whispers away from the rest of the family be nothing other than young love?

 

While painfully shy isn't ideal in anyone over the age of 3, it does happen. If you give her time, and I mean lots of time, she will probably come around. Let them sit quietly in the other room or at the other end of the couch. Tell younger brother that one day his time will come. He won't want his older brother butting into his romance. Be thankful that they are at your house.

 

When she comes be polite, greet her, ask about her day, accept one word answers and tell her that you would be happy to get anything she needs then go away. (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

 

Remember your son is proud enough of his family to bring his woman home. Just accept that for now.

[Denisemomof4]

Okay, I'm a bit confused. You have a girl who is so shy that she was held back in school. How is she being rude?

 

I'm trying to say this nicely, but if I was your son I would be feeling ganged up by my family.

 

I'm sure there is something I am missing. What has this girl done...other than be who she is? (Genuinely asking not trying to be rude at all!!!:D)

 

THEY have been rude by not acknowledging that anyone is present. They will talk to themselves in the midst of us all, quietly, and ignore that anyone is present. They will stay in a different room and ignore there are other people are present. She will answer my questions in the shortest way possible and not acknowledge any of us beyond that.

 

Ds has a great relationship with both sides of her family and it's just strained here. I don't understand this because we were so close.

 

I just think their entire relationship revolves around her and this is an example of that. Ds has already said she's so selfish. I don't address anything negative he says about her because I don't want to make things worse. I just be the ear I can and say very little, unless it's positive.

[Denisemomof4]

I think the point is that she has isolated Denise's son and is keeping him from his family because she is uncomfortable with people and the world in general. Shy I can deal with, keeping a person from those who love him is a problem though.

 

I honestly didn't realize this until yesterday. He was so close to my son, so close to me. Now he's shut us completely out. Between ds and I, older ds shared EVERYTHING. Now it's all gone. I don't think it's only her, I think he's very close to her mother and she is now his sounding board. For a male, he's HUGE on communication, DEEP communication. This saddens me because his gf is lacking there and it already hurts him. He hates that she can't express happiness.:001_huh:

 

Still, I'm the last one in bed at night (always has been) and we do have meaningful talks periodically. I've become the ear with the negative and have learned NOT to give out advice.

[Carol in Cal.]

THEY have been rude by not acknowledging that anyone is present. They will talk to themselves in the midst of us all, quietly, and ignore that anyone is present. They will stay in a different room and ignore there are other people are present. She will answer my questions in the shortest way possible and not acknowledge any of us beyond that.

 

Ds has a great relationship with both sides of her family and it's just strained here. I don't understand this because we were so close.

 

 

You know, this IS really annoying, but it doesn't seem that rude or surprising to me. It's a new relationship. They often look like this, like two people can't take their eyes off of each other and barely know that anyone else exists. It diminishes with time. They probably don't even know they are doing it. Rise above it, I say, and wait it out. Act like you don't even notice this behavior. Or you're risking losing your relationship with your son and possible grandchildren down the road.

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, I have another perspective for you. Could it be that she isn't manipulating your son? Could it be that she is very shy and very much in love? Could your ds be very much in love with a shy woman and doing what he can to protect her? Could he have promised to do what he could to make her feel comfortable and that means quiet corners away from pesky little brothers? Could the whispers away from the rest of the family be nothing other than young love?

 

While painfully shy isn't ideal in anyone over the age of 3, it does happen. If you give her time, and I mean lots of time, she will probably come around. Let them sit quietly in the other room or at the other end of the couch. Tell younger brother that one day his time will come. He won't want his older brother butting into his romance. Be thankful that they are at your house.

 

When she comes be polite, greet her, ask about her day, accept one word answers and tell her that you would be happy to get anything she needs then go away. (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

 

Remember your son is proud enough of his family to bring his woman home. Just accept that for now.

 

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO right. My friend yesterday told me it's ok that they're not with us, that the blessing is that they're in our home. She told me to stop trying so hard, stop revolving my day around them, and just focus on everyone else. I know this is the right thing to do because the harder I tried, the more uncomfortable it became.

 

I will enclose a little note in the gift along with an invitation to come visit, and I will let it go from there.

 

Still thinking this through...................

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Being a quiet shy introvert married to a quiet shy introvert and raising a quiet shy introvert I've just got to say not all quiet shy introverts are manipulating cows.

 

Denise, I have another perspective for you. Could it be that she isn't manipulating your son? Could it be that she is very shy and very much in love? Could your ds be very much in love with a shy woman and doing what he can to protect her? Could he have promised to do what he could to make her feel comfortable and that means quiet corners away from pesky little brothers? Could the whispers away from the rest of the family be nothing other than young love?

 

While painfully shy isn't ideal in anyone over the age of 3, it does happen. If you give her time, and I mean lots of time, she will probably come around. Let them sit quietly in the other room or at the other end of the couch. Tell younger brother that one day his time will come. He won't want his older brother butting into his romance. Be thankful that they are at your house.

 

When she comes be polite, greet her, ask about her day, accept one word answers and tell her that you would be happy to get anything she needs then go away. (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

 

Remember your son is proud enough of his family to bring his woman home. Just accept that for now.

 

 

There is a difference between being painfully shy and being controlling and manipulative. From what Denise originally wrote, the problem seems to go way beyond extreme shyness. A shy person wouldn't make your behavior toward your family change completely. Yes, we all obsess about and spend inordinate amounts of time with our new loves, but we don't change our personalities and our family relationships for the worse, in most cases.

[Denisemomof4]

You know, this IS really annoying, but it doesn't seem that rude or surprising to me. It's a new relationship. They often look like this, like two people can't take their eyes off of each other and barely know that anyone else exists. It diminishes with time. They probably don't even know they are doing it. Rise above it, I say, and wait it out. Act like you don't even notice this behavior. Or you're risking losing your relationship with your son and possible grandchildren down the road.

 

you are absolutely right. But what I'm sick of hearing is how close ds is to their family while they isolate here. I told him that he's gotten to know all of them and that we deserve the same.

 

Honestly, unloading to my friend who has BTDT and you here who have experience has been more help than anything and I hope I can let this go. And I hope she can come around again. My friend told me how hard it was for her to go through this, how she had nobody to turn to. I'm so thankful to know that what I'm going through is comfortable, but given the circumstances: normal.

[Allearia]

I feel that I could have been that girlfriend. Some things people have posted are a bit hurtful to me because my shyness was so painful and devastating to me and to think people thought it was some purposeful thing I did to reject them stings a bit. So I am coming from the point of view of the girlfriend. I think trying to invite or include her is the right thing to do. Maybe a very brief telling her you had thought she didn't like you but understand now that she is just very quiet would help. Then just be okay with her being quiet. With what happened it may take her even longer to open up, but hopefully when she gets to know you she will in her own way. Just be supportive and don't let it affect you when she is not joining in the conversation or seems standoffish. Because it is really not about you. She would probably give anything to be more talkative. And the worst thing to do is to tease her about how quiet she is, just let her alone. Maybe spend some one on one time in the kitchen or something. But she may have a hard time there too worrying she will do something wrong, you may think she is lazy and doesn't want to do any work. There is just such anxiety and self-consciousness that everything is so difficult. Just be okay with that and let her open up at her own pace.

 

I have changed so much since the time I was like this and now am much more outgoing and comfortable with people. You would probably not realize I was ever like this but it just took a lot of time and life experience out in the world. Having my kids and needing to stand up for them and make sure they have friends and playmates was probably the biggest help. It was still a bit painful when we went to visit my inlaws and the whole family but now I had my kids to be ambassadors and I really hope my inlaws understood when I needed some alone time and worked on rearranging our stuff quietly at times. But I love them and once I got to know them it was easier.

[LibraryLover]

It will be OK, Denise. Even if he's a bit distant right now, if he knows you care about him and what's happening now, he'll come back around. 18 is a cusp age in our culture, and everything can seem confusing.

[Parrothead]

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO right. My friend yesterday told me it's ok that they're not with us, that the blessing is that they're in our home. She told me to stop trying so hard, stop revolving my day around them, and just focus on everyone else. I know this is the right thing to do because the harder I tried, the more uncomfortable it became.

 

I will enclose a little note in the gift along with an invitation to come visit, and I will let it go from there.

 

Still thinking this through...................

They have no where else to go. Neither has a place of his/her own. So they've got to snuggle on the sofa somewhere. It is too cold to do it in the car this time of year.

 

You say you worry because he doesn't talk to you anymore. Let me ask you this; at what point did you start confiding in your dh more than your mother? The girlfriend is becoming his sounding board. He has talked to you about her so he isn't shutting you out completely. And you've raised him to be a polite young man and he is getting to know the mother and father.

[Carol in Cal.]

But what I'm sick of hearing is how close ds is to their family while they isolate here. I told him that he's gotten to know all of them and that we deserve the same.

 

 

But, see, that's part of it--she is fascinating to him and so so is her family. Because her family is just one more thing about HER, not about them themselves. It's just an extension of the 'I only have eyes for you' thing.

 

It is hard, I understand why you're sick of it, but BE THE BIGGER PERSON, and not the martyrish bigger person, either; the genuine bigger person--the one who is unfailingly nice and kind and just doesn't ever notice or comment on what these other grown people do. I promise you, it will pay off in the long run. And, yes, the bigger person who convinces her DH to make an explicit verbal apology. Seriously.

[Denisemomof4]

I feel that I could have been that girlfriend. Some things people have posted are a bit hurtful to me because my shyness was so painful and devastating to me and to think people thought it was some purposeful thing I did to reject them stings a bit. So I am coming from the point of view of the girlfriend. I think trying to invite or include her is the right thing to do. Maybe a very brief telling her you had thought she didn't like you but understand now that she is just very quiet would help. Then just be okay with her being quiet. With what happened it may take her even longer to open up, but hopefully when she gets to know you she will in her own way. Just be supportive and don't let it affect you when she is not joining in the conversation or seems standoffish. Because it is really not about you. She would probably give anything to be more talkative. And the worst thing to do is to tease her about how quiet she is, just let her alone. Maybe spend some one on one time in the kitchen or something. But she may have a hard time there too worrying she will do something wrong, you may think she is lazy and doesn't want to do any work. There is just such anxiety and self-consciousness that everything is so difficult. Just be okay with that and let her open up at her own pace.

 

I have changed so much since the time I was like this and now am much more outgoing and comfortable with people. You would probably not realize I was ever like this but it just took a lot of time and life experience out in the world. Having my kids and needing to stand up for them and make sure they have friends and playmates was probably the biggest help. It was still a bit painful when we went to visit my inlaws and the whole family but now I had my kids to be ambassadors and I really hope my inlaws understood when I needed some alone time and worked on rearranging our stuff quietly at times. But I love them and once I got to know them it was easier.

 

thank you SO much. This really helps more than you know!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

But, see, that's part of it--she is fascinating to him and so so is her family. Because her family is just one more thing about HER, not about them themselves. It's just an extension of the 'I only have eyes for you' thing.

 

It is hard, I understand why you're sick of it, but BE THE BIGGER PERSON, and not the martyrish bigger person, either; the genuine bigger person--the one who is unfailingly nice and kind and just doesn't ever notice or comment on what these other grown people do. I promise you, it will pay off in the long run. And, yes, the bigger person who convinces her DH to make an explicit verbal apology. Seriously.

 

I agree with you! SO MUCH! Thank you!

 

I really was gobsmacked. He started this relationship including me 100% and now has excluded me. I just didn't expect this. I'm working my way through to my path of peace and I honestly think (HOPE) I'm close to arriving. With the help of all of you.

 

I have already told dh he needs to apologize and he agrees. I'm going to still enclose that little note with the gift and I expect not to hear from her. And that's ok.

[simka2]

you are absolutely right. But what I'm sick of hearing is how close ds is to their family while they isolate here. I told him that he's gotten to know all of them and that we deserve the same.

 

Honestly, unloading to my friend who has BTDT and you here who have experience has been more help than anything and I hope I can let this go. And I hope she can come around again. My friend told me how hard it was for her to go through this, how she had nobody to turn to. I'm so thankful to know that what I'm going through is comfortable, but given the circumstances: normal.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I wanted to send hugs because I hear your pain. I also, knew my MIL felt similar...it just wasn't my job to fix it. I loved how chuckie pointed out the transfer of loyalties. This must be so hard to go thru, but an important part of things.

 

It's okay to grieve the loss of one type of relationship with your ds as it blooms into a different type.

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug::grouphug: I wanted to send hugs because I hear your pain. I also, knew my MIL felt similar...it just wasn't my job to fix it. I loved how chuckie pointed out the transfer of loyalties. This must be so hard to go thru, but an important part of things.

 

It's okay to grieve the loss of one type of relationship with your ds as it blooms into a different type.

 

my boys know that I've always raised them to honor their wives and keep them first in their lives. They know how I feel about that. The transfer of loyalty would have been an issue with me if it hadn't happened.

 

What I didn't expect was for them to love and be loyal to her family and not ours, when ds was so close to me and my other ds. That's not fair and not acceptable by me, but I'm getting up the courage to just let it all go and focus on things that truly need my attention.

 

This has all been a process!

[Amy Jo]

As another introvert I second the be normal advice. For me, it just took a LOT of time to be comfortable. DH's family had different routines, they interacted differently, etc. I was really shy and so worried about doing the wrong thing I just observed. (In hindsight, I should have been more confident, but I'm more mature [i hope] now then I was then.)

 

My advice is to try to patch things up (invite her for Christmas), and then just be yourselves. Invite her is participate, but if she is comfortable observing, let her.

 

Oh, and if you want her to do something, just ask. Don't go tell your son behind her back. (Short version - MIL gripped at DH about me not helping with something, instead of asking me. This gave me the impression that she thought poorly of me as a person. Which made me more shy.) Some people can just jump in to a new social situation. I'd rather go to the dentist. :tongue_smilie:

 

Amy

[Amy Jo]

I feel that I could have been that girlfriend. Some things people have posted are a bit hurtful to me because my shyness was so painful and devastating to me and to think people thought it was some purposeful thing I did to reject them stings a bit. So I am coming from the point of view of the girlfriend. I think trying to invite or include her is the right thing to do. Maybe a very brief telling her you had thought she didn't like you but understand now that she is just very quiet would help. Then just be okay with her being quiet. With what happened it may take her even longer to open up, but hopefully when she gets to know you she will in her own way. Just be supportive and don't let it affect you when she is not joining in the conversation or seems standoffish. Because it is really not about you. She would probably give anything to be more talkative. And the worst thing to do is to tease her about how quiet she is, just let her alone. Maybe spend some one on one time in the kitchen or something. But she may have a hard time there too worrying she will do something wrong, you may think she is lazy and doesn't want to do any work. There is just such anxiety and self-consciousness that everything is so difficult. Just be okay with that and let her open up at her own pace.

 

I have changed so much since the time I was like this and now am much more outgoing and comfortable with people. You would probably not realize I was ever like this but it just took a lot of time and life experience out in the world. Having my kids and needing to stand up for them and make sure they have friends and playmates was probably the biggest help. It was still a bit painful when we went to visit my inlaws and the whole family but now I had my kids to be ambassadors and I really hope my inlaws understood when I needed some alone time and worked on rearranging our stuff quietly at times. But I love them and once I got to know them it was easier.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Denisemomof4]

As another introvert I second the be normal advice. For me, it just took a LOT of time to be comfortable. DH's family had different routines, they interacted differently, etc. I was really shy and so worried about doing the wrong thing I just observed. (In hindsight, I should have been more confident, but I'm more mature [i hope] now then I was then.)

 

My advice is to try to patch things up (invite her for Christmas), and then just be yourselves. Invite her is participate, but if she is comfortable observing, let her.

 

Oh, and if you want her to do something, just ask. Don't go tell your son behind her back. (Short version - MIL gripped at DH about me not helping with something, instead of asking me. This gave me the impression that she thought poorly of me as a person. Which made me more shy.) Some people can just jump in to a new social situation. I'd rather go to the dentist. :tongue_smilie:

 

Amy

 

DENTIST??!!!

 

:svengo::svengo::svengo:

 

Honestly, I've learned so much, Ladies. I can't thank you all enough.