Experience with John Rosemond's ideas and methods?

[kathkath]

What are your thoughts and experiences with his ideas? I just was flipping through some of his books at the library, and remembered he was a popular speaker at the midwest convention.

 

:bigear:

[Brenda in FL]

What are your thoughts and experiences with his ideas? I just was flipping through some of his books at the library, and remembered he was a popular speaker at the midwest convention.

 

:bigear:

 

I think he offers much in the area of practical advice and how to approach certain situations. He's got a very common sense approach and emphasizes that the child should not be at the center of the family life! He doesn't speak to the spiritual/heart issues of situations - more just to the behavior side - but I think you can definitely combine the two to work out solutions that are right for your particular family.

[smrtmama]

I think he's kind of a jerk with a rather low opinion of the worth of children.

[Julie in CA]

I've raised 5 dc rather successfully following his advice, which came naturally to me. It really was common-sense that I don't think people in past generations needed to be told.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I enjoy reading his syndicated articles in our newspaper every week. I don't always agree with him, but I do most of the time. He is "old school", no-nonsense. He has no room for what he calls "psycho-babble". I wouldn't call him a jerk, though I might if I were a kid on the receiving end of some of his disciplinary tactics. :)

[Jenn in Mo]

Here is a link to a pdf download of the first five chapters to one of his books. I think he has some down-to-earth practical advice that makes good sense.

[kalanamak]

I've raised 5 dc rather successfully following his advice, which came naturally to me. It really was common-sense that I don't think people in past generations needed to be told.

 

:iagree: However, in all his dialogues with his kids (in the two books I read) there was NO pleases or thank yous. I'm blunt with my kid, but there are pleases and thank yous all over the place. I get them in return. He is....sort of harsh in every sentence. I only get crisp when there is disobedience or whining. I'm glad I read a couple of his early books, but I have some problems with this, as they say.

 

He also lives in his childhood, where kids can be put outside for most of a summer day. You almost never see a kid alone where I live. It is so odd, that when we see a couple of middle school boys (never girls) walking or biking together, my son pipes up in awe "those children are ALONE".

 

I dunno. I like what my parents did better. If one of us goofed off in school we didn't have to participate in a teacher/parent plan as complex as the Marshall Plan. It was our business, our bootstraps. Perhaps we would have "gone further" if we'd all be industrious teens, but 6 kids through grad or professional school, eventually, is enough of a sales pitch for me. :)

[Margo out of lurking]

I think he's kind of a jerk with a rather low opinion of the worth of children.

 

:iagree: (and parents)

 

His superior attitude turns me off. He's also given hsing advice which I find ignorant, and it is beyond my understanding why HSLDA continues to promote him.

 

I commented a few times, linking his article on HSLDA's FB page, when they twice posted of his upcoming appearances and was pleased when they responded to me privately. (Two different appearances, two different posts by me; I wasn't harassing.)

[FriedClams]

I like him a lot. He's common sense, what-your-grandmother-would-say kind of parenting to me. If I remember correctly he would advocate:

 

"No" is a good word and kids need to hear it more.

 

Toys should be limited less kids turn into spoiled brats. (As an aside - I did this once - limited toys to 5-7 per kid. Worked wonders. They played, were creative, took care of things, etc.)

 

Limit media.

 

Play outside.

 

Be respectful.

 

Kids can learn responsibility and self management (the homework book was really good, if I remember correctly).

 

No child centered families.

 

 

 

I will say, with any advice - keep the fish and throw out the bones. Some advice is great - some not so. Keep the good, ignore the other stuff.

[Danestress]

I think his core advice is wise. His book Teen Proofing was of great help to DH and I. Neither of is is inclined to read self help or parenting books, but this one was recommended, and it really helped us figure out how to parent out teenager. He helped us quit micromanaging and allowing fights to escalate. I would say that most teens would actually really LIKE their parents to read this book. He encourages parents to give their children a lot of rope, allow them to make their own mistakes, and let kids live with the consequences of their own choices.

 

I find his tone is often snide at times. There are some things I have to sort of roll my eyes at or just overlook. Overall, though, I think his advice is good.

[Jilly6]

I honestly think his is full of it. His views on ADHD are pathetic. Anyone who doesn't believe in ADHD has never raised nor lived with an ADHD child or adult.

I dare him or anyone who doesn't believe in ADHD to live with an ADHD child/adult on a daily basis to do so for one week. Let's see how far his methods take them.

[ChristusG]

I don't care for him. He may have some good advice at times, but he comes across as snide and condescending.

[lmrich]

I went to school with his kids and we were in several activities together....I have never bought any of his books or attended any of his lectures.

 

Enough said.

[Heatherwith4]

I don't care for his tone. I have taken some advice from him. I'm not willing to be as harsh with my dc as he recommends, nor as disconnected. However, I let them have tons of free playtime, so that's one thing we agree on. I'm all for limiting toys, but unfortunately, others in my family are not. :)

[Lady Florida.]

Anyone who doesn't believe in ADHD has never raised nor lived with an ADHD child or adult.

I dare him or anyone who doesn't believe in ADHD to live with an ADHD child/adult on a daily basis to do so for one week. Let's see how far his methods take them.

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

[katilac]

I'm not really a fan. For one, his advice didn't seem to work particularly well within his own family - - I remember reading what he said about his kids misbehaving at around 3, and then reading a different book/article, and these same behaviors are going on at 6 or 7! Honestly, he always made his kids sound quite annoying and ill-behaved; I'm not sure why I would want to duplicate his efforts. Besides that, I am another one who thinks that he is too often snide, arrogant, and punitive.

 

I just finished the homeschool article, and I see that his thoughts on parents and children leading quite separate lives is as strong as ever, as is his habit of stating his opinion as definitive fact. And his take on "self-esteem" in the book excerpt is just ridiculous. He starts off by bashing the "self-esteem at any cost" movement, and fine, I'm with you there, but then takes a turn into Stupid Town when he says that all sociopaths, like Hitler, Ted Bundy, and so on, have high self-esteem, while good people such as Ghandi and Mother Teresa do not. That's an idiotic comparison; being humble or willing to serve others is NOT the same as having low self-esteem.

 

He's just an illogical thinker, and prone to extremes. Overindulging your kids and letting their desires and interests rule family life may well be a bad idea; it doesn't follow that being involved and spending a lot of time with them is also a bad idea. Letting your kids be disrespectul may be a bad idea; it doesn't follow that encouraging them to be open about their thoughts and feelings is also a bad idea.

 

He longs for the halycon days of the fifties, when no one at his large high school commited suicide, did drugs, or got pregnant. Unless he went to school in Pleasantville, I think it's more likely that the suicides got covered up (as it was a sin and shameful) and the pregnant girls went away to 'visit relatives.' I'm not sure what the drug users did, but I know they existed! I agree that a larger number of teens may have more extreme problems these days. I don't agree that these problems didn't exist back in the day, or that duplicating a fifties childhood in 2010 will keep them from occuring.

 

dh and I are raising our kids very differently from the way we were raised. We turned out well, ;), and our kids are turning out well. Yes, I am far more involved in their lives than my parents ever were in mine, and I like it that way. Rosemond would have nodded in approval at my entire neighborhood's parenting style: we were in school all day, played on our own much of the remaining time, and kids were expected to solve any and all problems amongst themselves. There were few things worse than being a 'tattler,' which gave the stronger, meaner kids a tremendous amount of power.

 

I'm thankful for the great job my parents did in raising me, but the plain truth is that they knew very little about what was going on in my day to day life. The sharp boundaries that Rosemond is so fond of were very much in place. I think the easing of those boundaries, and sharing our lives more closely, is a positive. When I was a kid, I would have cut out my own tongue rather than talk to my parents about some of the subjects my kids bring up, lol.

 

Rosemond doesn't recognize that parents can be involved and even somewhat indulgent (according to his definition) and still have well-behaved, hard working kids who turn out wonderfully. It's his way or dire consequences.

[Julie in CA]

He's just an illogical thinker, and prone to extremes. Overindulging your kids and letting their desires and interests rule family life may well be a bad idea; it doesn't follow that being involved and spending a lot of time with them is also a bad idea. Letting your kids be disrespectul may be a bad idea; it doesn't follow that encouraging them to be open about their thoughts and feelings is also a bad idea.

 

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, 'cause I never got any of that from what I read. :confused: I'm involved with my kids and spend lots of time with them. I also let them have a lot of independent play as they grew up, which is what he advocates. My dc are completely able to be open about their thoughts and feelings, but share their feelings at appropriate times and places, as adults tend to do. I guess I just didn't take it the same way... :001_huh:

[Mejane]

I find his tone is often snide at times. There are some things I have to sort of roll my eyes at or just overlook. Overall, though, I think his advice is good.

 

This.

[katilac]

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, 'cause I never got any of that from what I read. :confused: I'm involved with my kids and spend lots of time with them. I also let them have a lot of independent play as they grew up, which is what he advocates. My dc are completely able to be open about their thoughts and feelings, but share their feelings at appropriate times and places, as adults tend to do. I guess I just didn't take it the same way... :001_huh:

 

I'm all for lots of independent play; I think he goes well beyond that. I can try to look up some specifics later (I don't own his books anymore), but just his take on home schooling bothers me: the most effective home schools are those that involve a cooperative effort (trading classes with other moms or a co-op), and extra-curricular activities via the local public school. The last bit particularly annoys me; he doesn't just say "outside activities" but specifies "through the local public school."

 

Also, call me particular, but I don't get a positive vibe from a doctor and parent who uses phrases like "the Little Criminal stage" to describe periods of development. Bleah.

[Julie in CA]

I can try to look up some specifics later (I don't own his books anymore)

That's ok. I think we just read different things into what he wrote. Different perspectives and all that...:)

[katilac]

“What's happening in America today is parents are emphasizing their relationship with their children instead of leadership. Anyone in leadership will tell you you cannot have a warm, fuzzy relationship with someone you're in charge of leading.â€

 

The General Patton School of Parenting

 

“Punishment is every bit as necessary to raising a well-behaved child as weeding is to growing a successful garden.â€

 

Punishment, not discipline.

 

“Children like to misbehave.â€

 

I have lots of experience with lots of kids, and I have never found this to be true.

 

"People with high self-esteem tend to have very low respect for others."

 

Again, I don't find this true.

 

"Today, you see kids 5, 6, 8 throwing tantrums ... having to be dragged out of the store by their parents. Even worse, not being dragged out of the store by their parents. You folks think this is normal.â€

 

His early books referenced his own son doing this exact thing.

 

(speaking of his son's significant behavior problems and troubles in school): "Three months prior to that, according to the diagnostic standards, he had--and I put the word in quotes--attention deficit disorder, oppositional defiance disorder, and early-onset bipolar disorder. Three months later, as a consequence simply of us embracing traditional biblically based parenting, he had been cured."

 

By his own statements, here and elsewhere, his son had major behavior and academic problems through the ages of nine or ten. I can believe that his son improved. I can believe that a change in parenting style helped make that improvement possible. I cannot believe that years upon years of ongoing, severe problems were 'cured' in three months.

 

(speaking in the context of parents doing too much for their children): "All of the symptoms that we associate with attention deficit disorder (ADD) are, in fact, behaviors that are typical of toddlers."

 

I'll leave it to those with personal experience to comment on this one.

 

Again, if you just read the 'high points' of many of his books, they seem to make a great deal of sense. But while I'm in agreement with much of what he says, percentage-wise, I simply can't ignore some of the things he says. I can benefit from an author that I don't agree with, but not one I don't respect.

[Julie in CA]

I still have a different take on this than you do, and that's ok. Really. :001_smile:

[ereks mom]

Otherwise... I have enjoyed reading his column, but I don't always agree with his advice--but I don't know of anybody I would agree with 100% of the time.

 

In case anyone wants to read it, here is his advice for picky eaters. It really did work with my nieces and nephews who used to stay with us pretty often. Disclaimer: This advice is intended for children who do not have authentic sensory issues.

[elizabeth]

I went to school with his kids and we were in several activities together....I have never bought any of his books or attended any of his lectures.

 

Enough said.

 

No, not enough said, we need details...:lol: I understand what you are saying though. So often what sounds good on paper can be ugly when put into practice.

[katilac]

I still have a different take on this than you do, and that's ok. Really. :001_smile:

 

You don't have to convince me that it's okay, I disagree with plenty of people and have no issues with it, lol.

[Julie in CA]

You don't have to convince me that it's okay, I disagree with plenty of people and have no issues with it, lol.

Sorry, I didn't want you to invest more time in finding specifics that might change my mind! :001_smile: Sometimes it's difficult to let board disagreements pass.

[Heatherwith4]

No, not enough said, we need details...:lol: I understand what you are saying though. So often what sounds good on paper can be ugly when put into practice.

:lol: I was thinking the same thing! :)

[Laurie4b]

I went to school with his kids and we were in several activities together....I have never bought any of his books or attended any of his lectures.

 

Enough said.

 

I would be interested in hearing *in general* what you mean here. I've always had an attitude of "I want to seek advice from people whose adult kids I admire rather than from "experts." So if you can give the general gist of it, without feeling that you're sharing inappropriately, I would appreciate it because I've been interested in Rosemond's books.

[katilac]

I would be interested in hearing *in general* what you mean here. I've always had an attitude of "I want to seek advice from people whose adult kids I admire rather than from "experts." So if you can give the general gist of it, without feeling that you're sharing inappropriately, I would appreciate it because I've been interested in Rosemond's books.

 

You can probably get a feel for what she's talking about from Rosamond himself. When his son was about 9, Rosamond says that he was failing school and "according to the diagnostic standards, he had--and I put the word in quotes--attention deficit disorder, oppositional defiance disorder, and early-onset bipolar disorder." His early books had plenty of stories about severe tantrums, etc. I remember some sad quotes about his son saying, at very young ages, stuff like he didn't like himself, he wasn't good, etc.

[Haiku]

I used to read his column in the paper, in a train-wreck-can't-stop-looking kind of way. I think that his ideas are disrespectful to children, and trust me, I am not a children-are-the-center-of-the-universe kind of person. My opinion, after reading his column for a few years and reading at least two (maybe more) of his books is that he feels that children are around to please their parents and that they are mechanical beings who will respond to extremely behaviorist-based methods.

 

I saw first-hand how his potty-training methods would have failed completely with my first child, who trained at (what he considers to be the late) age of 21 months. He said to strip the kid nekkid for a week and potty training would be accomplished. I watched my dd go through several months of distinct stages of awareness in potty training, and stripping her nekkid and allowing her to pee on herself repeatedly would not have hastened this developmental process. In the end, she did go nekkid from the waist down for a few days, but this was the extreme tail end of potty training, not the entire method.

 

Oh, and his opinion on the issues faced by adopted children is effing hogwash. And effing is not really a strong enough word.

 

John Rosemond creeps me out.

 

Tara

Edited December 9, 2010 by TaraTheLiberator

[Haiku]

I think he's kind of a jerk with a rather low opinion of the worth of children.

 

Exactly what I think, more succinctly stated.

 

Tara

[Mom-ninja.]

Here is a link to a pdf download of the first five chapters to one of his books. I think he has some down-to-earth practical advice that makes good sense.

 

Well, those 5 chapters convinced me that the man has a "holier-than-thou" attitude. But hey, whatever one has to do to make themselves feel like they have something important to say.

 

 

 

I honestly think his is full of it. His views on ADHD are pathetic. Anyone who doesn't believe in ADHD has never raised nor lived with an ADHD child or adult.

I dare him or anyone who doesn't believe in ADHD to live with an ADHD child/adult on a daily basis to do so for one week. Let's see how far his methods take them.

 

Amen to that.

 

 

He glorifies Dobson.....that's enough for me to tell me that he has no place in my world.

[Joanne]

I am *so* not a fan.

 

His approach is adversarial and hostile. He assumes "battles" and posits parenting as if you are on the opposite side of a tug of war. I prefer to think of parenting in terms of working with, not against, my children.

 

He deliberately misrepresents attachment parenting and inaccurately characterizes positive discipline. He does this in such an inaccurate and exaggerated way that it's not worthing engaging with him; he is critical of an idea about AP and Positive Discipline, not what AP and PD really are.

 

He's also alarming in terms of assisting youth with mental health support, and also helping parents be actual holistic advocates.

[Sonshine]

I must not have read his latest stuff because I don't remember the info I read covering the topics being mentioned here in depth.

 

I very much liked his approach of suggested consequences to misbehavior - especially for some teens. His way of quantifying irresponsible behavior and tracking it was helpful in managing such things as kids not doing chores or homework. Some of his suggested consequences were creative and spurred me to come up with specific consequences that fit our family and individual kids. For example, when my teen was rude when being dropped off at his part time job - I told him "I won't give you a ride for week because I don't like to be in the car with people who treat me poorly". For those kids who frankly don't care about the effects of their selfishness and unkindness on others and think everything is someone else's fault, this approach worked better than sincerely talking to the kid about the issue.

[Vida Winter]

This is kind of amusing, because my own father bought me a book by Rosemond when my first child was an infant. My father died when that same infant was 10 months old. At the time (I'm assuming it was one of his earlier books) it seemed like a lot of common sense parenting -- but then again with an infant you don't exactly have discipline problems. I don't know what ever happened to that book - that was fifteen years ago. But I do know that my own father was a lot rougher on me than anything Rosemond advocated.

[ElizabethB]

His book "Parenting by The Book" has a more moderate tone.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Book-Biblical-Wisdom-Raising/dp/1416544844/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

 

It's also interesting to see the star splits--50 5-star ratings, 4 4-star ratings, 0 3-star, 0 2-star, 31 1-star ratings.

[lmrich]

Well they were just normal, average kids... (I don't want to gossip about events 25 years ago). Some of his advise was that kids should not be your center and that includes not driving them to their various activities. At the time his kids were always bumming rides by other people to make this happen or they broke committments.

 

I am very guilty of allowing my kids' activities to drive me crazy, but they love and I love the activities they are doing....I feel that those experiences makes them more unique and interesting in the long run.

 

In fact got to run because we have an 8:00 am prayer group to go to for my dd.

[kathkath]

.

Edited December 10, 2010 by kathkath
Wrong format

[Holly IN]

I have read all of his books. The stuff I kept have helped me alot but I threw about 60% of his stuff out the window and kept the 40%.

 

I do not agree with the whole children shouldn't be so dependant on moms. Sorry!! but that is part of their training. :001_smile: He seems to be against the tomato stake type of parenting. I do not agree 100% with either tomato staking (raising godly tomatoes) or Rosemond.

 

Rosemond's biggest help was the potty training. I used his methods and the toilet training less than a day with great success!!

 

Holly

[Merry]

he was being very rebellious and ungrateful and my dh was gone to work most of the time. I was at my wit's end about how to discipline him and this book was so helpful. I learned about assigning consequences and not taking his behavior so personally. I didn't understand preteen boys.

[katilac]

Another miracle cure by the good doctor. I mean, this kid threw tantrums almost daily for two years about getting dressed and had an official SPD dx, but eh, he knew she was just spoiled. When her parents stripped her room, she jumped up merrily the very first morning and hasn't had problems since. This is the kind of stuff that stretches his credibility, in my mind:

 

Rosemond dismisses SPD as speculative and cites a case of a mother whose 4-year-old daughter was diagnosed with it. He writes:

 

The primary symptom was the complaint that her clothes, especially underwear, did not feel right. They itched. They scratched. They felt funny. Almost every morning for two years, tantrums occurred over getting dressed. Instead of speculating on why this little girl would find certain clothing/fabrics uncomfortable, I focused on what was actually taking place: The child was refusing to get dressed in the morning. That is known as defiance.

 

I told the parents to strip the little girl’s room of everything except essential furniture and clothing.She could sleep with her favorite stuffed animals, but they were to be removed in the morning. Her parents then explained that this was not punishment. Rather, “The Doctor†had recommended removing all distractions so she could focus on getting dressed. Furthermore, no one was going to help her.

 

Two weeks later, I received the following e-mail from Mom: “The very first morning, [daughter] reminded us to remove her sleep toys so she could get dressed. She then put on underwear and clothes and came out for breakfast. She has done this with no tantrums or requests for help since we began two weeks ago.†At this writing, it’s been five weeks since this little girl complained of her clothes not feeling right.