There's more than one right way to homeschool

[Teachin'Mine]

It's not any one thread or post that has prompted me to start this thread, but just something I've noticed for some time.

 

I know that this board is "a guide to classical education", but as we know, many homeschoolers, as well as afterschoolers and others, have found a home here who are not doing strictly classical education. I am included among those who are doing things differently, but that's not why I'm writing this. I think it's great to talk about what you're doing and to share your experiences, but at the same time, I think it's important to respect other people's choices for their own children. There is no one right way to educate children which is the best for all children or all families. Isn't that one of the problems many have found which prompted them to homeschool to begin with?

 

I think that when we start to narrow down our definition of what homeschooling is, to the exclusion of certain types or ways of homeschooling, that we're doing the whole homeschooling movement a disservice. If we continually narrow down what's true homeschooling, eventually we will narrow it down enough that even we ourselves wouldn't fit neatly inside that definition. I think homeschool is more inclusive than exclusive, or at least it should be. It's about choosing the best education for our own children.

 

Just my thoughts. :)

[justamouse]

excellent post.

[Crimson Wife]

:iagree: :hurray:

 

While I don't think "unschooling" would meet my family's needs, I have seen it work very well for other families I know. Same for "school-at-home", Waldorf, "unit studies", LCC, etc. Different strokes for different folks :001_smile:

[Mejane]

I imagine I roll my eyes at the eight-hour-per-day bunch with the same frequency that they roll their eyes at my kids' four hours per day. ;)

 

There's room for all of us. :)

[JudoMom]

It's not any one thread or post that has prompted me to start this thread' date=' but just something I've noticed for some time.

 

I know that this board is "a guide to classical education", but as we know, many homeschoolers, as well as afterschoolers and others, have found a home here who are not doing strictly classical education. I am included among those who are doing things differently, but that's not why I'm writing this. I think it's great to talk about what you're doing and to share your experiences, but at the same time, I think it's important to respect other people's choices for their own children. There is no one right way to educate children which is the best for all children or all families. Isn't that one of the problems many have found which prompted them to homeschool to begin with?

 

I think that when we start to narrow down our definition of what homeschooling is, to the exclusion of certain types or ways of homeschooling, that we're doing the whole homeschooling movement a disservice. If we continually narrow down what's true homeschooling, eventually we will narrow it down enough that even we ourselves wouldn't fit neatly inside that definition. I think homeschool is more inclusive than exclusive, or at least it should be. It's about choosing the best education for our own children.

 

Just my thoughts. :)[/quote']

 

I agree with you, and every family needs to homeschool as they see fit.

 

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

I shouldn't be expected to agree with other people's decisions to put their kids in school, and I shouldn't be expected to agree with unschooling (for example). I can disagree with these approaches, and still respect every family's right to school the way they want, kwim? Not to bring politics into it, but if I went to a Republican board and said I'd decided to vote for Obama because he's best choice for my family, I wouldn't expect to get kudos from the Republicans on that board, even though they can fully respect my right to vote. I would fully expect to get arguments and reasons why voting for McCain would be better.

 

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

[Teachin'Mine]

Judo Mom I'm sorry to hear that you're not getting the support that you need. We all need support no matter what type of homeschooling we've chosen.

 

Disagreeing with someone isn't the same as disrespecting them - to me. So on this board, or any for that matter, we will often get people who disagree, no matter what the post is about. I learn just as much, sometimes more, from reading posts which disagree with my point of view, as from those who write in support of my pov.

 

I've noticed that sometimes people post that they don't want any critical posts, or posts from people who disagree, and that may be helpful if you're looking for input from people who are like minded in their approach to homeschooling. :)

[newlifemom]

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

 

Thus making the rambling more productive? :tongue_smilie:

 

 

FWIW, I too in general have a hard time b/c most people I encounter look at me funny, when I tell them what we do for school. I love to talk about it, but then I feel like they must either think I am an elitist snob or homeschool nazi. I do want to be able to talk with people about rigorous education and training children to do hard things. Sigh :D

[i.love.lucy]

I agree with you, and every family needs to homeschool as they see fit.

 

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

I shouldn't be expected to agree with other people's decisions to put their kids in school, and I shouldn't be expected to agree with unschooling (for example). I can disagree with these approaches, and still respect every family's right to school the way they want, kwim? Not to bring politics into it, but if I went to a Republican board and said I'd decided to vote for Obama because he's best choice for my family, I wouldn't expect to get kudos from the Republicans on that board, even though they can fully respect my right to vote. I would fully expect to get arguments and reasons why voting for McCain would be better.

 

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

:iagree:(except I'm not going to hop on the treadmill)

[Karen in CO]

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

 

It is a perfect day outside here. :) I'm going to ramble outside. BUT I agree. The people that are more rigorous are often accused of pushing their kids. AND classical doesn't look the same to everyone.

 

There are lots of ways to homeschool, but I don't support them all. I also don't think that "anyone can homeschool." I've seen lots of people lower their expectations because it is hard to get their kids to do the work. I am very guilty of this myself. I have quit more grammar programs than I'd care to admit because I haven't had the will to make my dd complete them. I even found myself looking for support in my decision to quit and cover it with some sort of theory of education. It doesn't change the fact that I know how important it is.

 

We need to feel like it is okay to tell people that no, it isn't okay that you don't require xyz. I don't think anyone ever told me that even though I needed to hear it more than once.

 

I really need to do my rambling outside. What was the question again?

:)

[kwickimom]

I agree with you, and every family needs to homeschool as they see fit.

 

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

I shouldn't be expected to agree with other people's decisions to put their kids in school, and I shouldn't be expected to agree with unschooling (for example). I can disagree with these approaches, and still respect every family's right to school the way they want, kwim? Not to bring politics into it, but if I went to a Republican board and said I'd decided to vote for Obama because he's best choice for my family, I wouldn't expect to get kudos from the Republicans on that board, even though they can fully respect my right to vote. I would fully expect to get arguments and reasons why voting for McCain would be better.

 

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

 

:iagree: I dont put people down for what they are doing, but this IS a classical homeschooling forum called The Well Trained Mind.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Yes, this IS a classical homeschooling forum.

 

That said, the classical method has high academic standards. I think the vast majority of the people here have high academic standards for their own families. There are many different methods and each method is reflected here to some extent. This is NO one right way!

 

Most everyone here is mainly concerned about doing the BEST job possible and that is our common connection!

:)

[justamouse]

i don't disagree that there's more than one way to homeschool and I don't disagree that yes, this is a classical homeschooling board and unschooling may not be looked upon favorably here. But the thing about this board is that it's huge and ...hugely ginormous. With such an enormous amount of information, not just all who homeschool classically are going to gravitate to it. But the common denominator is that we all homeschool.

[Teachin'Mine]

Yes, this IS a classical homeschooling forum.

 

That said, the classical method has high academic standards. I think the vast majority of the people here have high academic standards for their own families. There are many different methods and each method is reflected here to some extent. This is NO one right way!

 

Most everyone here is mainly concerned about doing the BEST job possible and that is our common connection!

:)

 

 

Yes - that is our common connection! :)

[lionfamily1999]

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore. .

:iagree: It does get a little bothersome when people are questioned for following what is outlined in classical homeschooling guides.

FWIW, I too in general have a hard time b/c most people I encounter look at me funny, when I tell them what we do for school. I love to talk about it, but then I feel like they must either think I am an elitist snob or homeschool nazi (no books for you!). I do want to be able to talk with people about rigorous education and training children to do hard things. Sigh :D

:iagree: It's hard enough irl, when I'm surrounded by people that use boxed curriculum and imagine that my children must have bleak, miserable lives reciting poetry and Latin. Coming here, the few times I have seen this, and seeing that even on these boards you can get grief for being too rigorous just makes my stomach sink.

 

I just have to keep thing, 'SWB did it, her mother did it, we can do it.'

The people that are more rigorous are often accused of pushing their kids. AND classical doesn't look the same to everyone.

 

There are lots of ways to homeschool, but I don't support them all. I also don't think that "anyone can homeschool." I've seen lots of people lower their expectations because it is hard to get their kids to do the work. ...

 

We need to feel like it is okay to tell people that no, it isn't okay that you don't require xyz. I don't think anyone ever told me that even though I needed to hear it more than once.

 

 

:iagree: Lucky for me, I have had posters here tell me that. I've even had posters here tell me it was possible for us to do MORE, without having pale anti-social children :lol:.

:iagree: I dont put people down for what they are doing, but this IS a classical homeschooling forum called The Well Trained Mind.

:iagree:

i don't disagree that there's more than one way to homeschool and I don't disagree that yes, this is a classical homeschooling board and unschooling may not be looked upon favorably here. But the thing about this board is that it's huge and ...hugely ginormous. With such an enormous amount of information, not just all who homeschool classically are going to gravitate to it. But the common denominator is that we all homeschool.

Except, we don't all homeschool.

[kwickimom]

:iagree: It does get a little bothersome when people are questioned for following what is outlined in classical homeschooling guides.

 

:iagree: It's hard enough irl, when I'm surrounded by people that use boxed curriculum and imagine that my children must have bleak, miserable lives reciting poetry and Latin. Coming here, the few times I have seen this, and seeing that even on these boards you can get grief for being too rigorous just makes my stomach sink.

 

I just have to keep thing, 'SWB did it, her mother did it, we can do it.'

 

:iagree: Lucky for me, I have had posters here tell me that. I've even had posters here tell me it was possible for us to do MORE, without having pale anti-social children :lol:.

 

:iagree:

 

Except, we don't all homeschool.

 

exactly!

Edited October 30, 2010 by kwickimom
typo

[FaithManor]

I will be honest with you, when I left the board and didn't post for two or three years because we were knee deep in this house renovation, there were, at that time, more classical WTM type homeschoolers than now. I think of great threads on the high school board by Tina in Quray, BC (okay, I can't remember how to spell it) giving everyone advice on how to teach logic and upper divisional math, etc. DD was just beginning her high school years and I craved those discussions...the advice was excellent.

 

Now, having recently come back to the boards, I have found that many of the classically minded moms whose posts I craved and needed, are gone and there aren't nearly as many classically educating for high school, although, there are still some.

 

The dynamics have changed. I am still having a blast chatting with everyone. But, by in large, I am more careful about posting anything regarding how rigorous we are, or teaching Latin, or great book discussions, than I used to because I do tend to feel that it's not as accepted as it once was. Of course, that is just my perception and depending on how much coffee I've had or chocolate consumed, my perceptions do change! LOL

 

I feel supportive of everyone's homeschooling choices, but I do feel that I need to be quite reserved with details about mine, at least on the general board. I find it easier to discuss classical education on the high school or accelerated learners' board. And to all of you that post on the accelerated learners' forum, thanks a bunch because you've all given loads of advice that have helped me carve out ds's science path with a minimum of nail biting!!!

 

Faith

[Halcyon]

I agree with you, and every family needs to homeschool as they see fit.

 

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

I shouldn't be expected to agree with other people's decisions to put their kids in school, and I shouldn't be expected to agree with unschooling (for example). I can disagree with these approaches, and still respect every family's right to school the way they want, kwim? Not to bring politics into it, but if I went to a Republican board and said I'd decided to vote for Obama because he's best choice for my family, I wouldn't expect to get kudos from the Republicans on that board, even though they can fully respect my right to vote. I would fully expect to get arguments and reasons why voting for McCain would be better.

 

Since I feel like I've entered rambling territory now, I'm going to go hop on the treadmill :D.

 

I'm with you. This IS a classical board, and there's a lot of "don't worry, you don't need to do anything but the basics in the elementary years" and "just focus on math and reading"....um, I disagree. I don't think that's enough, sorry. This is my opinion, of course, but if you can't handle homeschooling your kids, you need to re-evaluate your life and figure out what exactly is preventing you from giving your children the education they deserve.....which includes science, art, and history (in SOME way)....yes, even in the elementary years. And, imo, you CAN do that with unschooling. I don't think the WTM is the only way.

 

Oh, and btw....just because you're rigorous doesn't mean you're not having fun. :001_smile:

Edited October 30, 2010 by Halcyon

[lionfamily1999]

I'm with you. This IS a classical board, and there's a lot of "don't worry, you don't need to do anything but the basics in the elementary years" and "just focus on math and reading"....um, I disagree. I don't think that's enough, sorry. This is my opinion, of course, but if you can't handle homeschooling your kids, you need to re-evaluate your life and figure out what exactly is preventing you from giving your children the education they deserve.....which includes science, art, and history (in SOME way)....yes, even in the elementary years. And, imo, you CAN do that with unschooling. I don't think the WTM is the only way.

 

Oh, and btw....just because you're rigorous doesn't mean you're not having fun. :001_smile:

:iagree:

 

I will say, in K and pre-K that you can relax. I do think that some parents get too worked up, but I'm not thinking about quantity so much as worrying about how their children are progressing and how much they're retaining. I remember thinking, "Ds will never be able to remember everything we've covered in history" and then having a hiver say, "Of course he won't! That's why we cover it three times ;)."

[Soror]

Well, I came here looking for more input on Classical Ed. as well and it has disappointed me at times that many here do not use that approach. However, I don't understand saying that you have to have formal science or start seatwork at 5 to be Classical. WTM leans on the side of not starting formal academics until 6 as well and then starting w/ 1st grade work. It is odd to me that so many start much earlier w/ so much formal things. It advocates teaching math and reading and such in an informal manner until then.

 

The approach to Science by the WTM is really laid back for the early years and I know LCC, CM and others don't advocate any formal schooling until 6. Latin isn't started in WTM until Grade 3.

 

History starts in First in WTM but in LCC the approach is much different. Nothing real formal is introduced afa history until 3rd grade.

[lionfamily1999]

Well, I came here looking for more input on Classical Ed. as well and it has disappointed me at times that many here do not use that approach. However, I don't understand saying that you have to have formal science or start seatwork at 5 to be Classical. WTM leans on the side of not starting formal academics until 6 as well and then starting w/ 1st grade work. It is odd to me that so many start much earlier w/ so much formal things. It advocates teaching math and reading and such in an informal manner until then.

 

The approach to Science by the WTM is really laid back for the early years and I know LCC, CM and others don't advocate any formal schooling until 6. Latin isn't started in WTM until Grade 3.

 

History starts in First in WTM but in LCC the approach is much different. Nothing real formal is introduced afa history until 3rd grade.

I will say that science is not obviously rigorous, but it seems to me like ds has a stronger understanding of science than his ps friends. I think, sometimes, something can seem easier (just doing experiments) but give you a greater understanding.

 

As for not starting till 6. I agree, I think it's perfectly alright. At the same time, ime, if you're hsing and you have a little one 3 or older, they will want to do school. At least, that's how it's been for us ;) Youngest ds felt left out, because he never had 'writing work.' So, we bought a few things and let him go as he wants. For now, it's a little here, a little there (a little today, because he asked to). Once he's 6, though, it will be school.

[Audrey]

I imagine I roll my eyes at the eight-hour-per-day bunch with the same frequency that they roll their eyes at my kids' four hours per day. ;)

 

There's room for all of us. :)

 

 

4 hours per day? What are you? The Marquis de Sade? ;):D

 

I've been through an evolution of styles and blends of styles throughout our hs journey. The one we started with is the one we're using again, but with some influences from the other styles we've tried in between. I think almost all styles have some nugget of merit in them, but whether or not that works for your child is quite a different story. Take the best and forget the rest, IMO.

 

I think the folks that bother me are the ones who insist that their definition of homeschooling is the only one ... and they've been homeschooling a whole whopping 2 years or less. :glare: Puh-lease. :001_rolleyes:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I've been on this board a LONG time and homeschooling even longer (my kids went to school for 8 weeks ever). The great majority of the time, EVERY type of homeschooling has been discussed and respected for the most part. Lots of people may not understand a certain way of doing things or may believe that another style is not for them; but the great majority of people here believe that EVERY style of homeschooling is a valid CHOICE.

 

I believe you're right, there is more than one right way to homeschool. ANY homeschooling style can be right for an individual family.

 

The ONLY issue I have is that *are* people calling what they do "homeschooling" when they most certainly are not. I think that is a HUGE issue and will cause more problems both in the community and with regulation just as it has for public schools. And unfortunately, I've seen a HUGE increase in the number of these situations in the past decade as have many other long term homeschoolers. (for more information, see the homeschool imposters thread we've had recently)

[Mejane]

4 hours per day? What are you? The Marquis de Sade? ;):D

 

 

My kids would say yes. :glare: That's when I remind them that many homeschooled kids do six or seven hours. They quiet down fast. :D

[saja1029]

Someone mentioned that WTM is not a "boxed curriculum." What is considered a boxed curriculum?

[lionfamily1999]

Someone mentioned that WTM is not a "boxed curriculum." What is considered a boxed curriculum?

One that you buy already put together.

[Mrs Mungo]

Someone mentioned that WTM is not a "boxed curriculum." What is considered a boxed curriculum?

 

Sonlight and Abeka are examples of boxed curriculum, everything you need with detailed instructions on how to use it in a box.

[Veritaserum]

I've been on this board a LONG time and homeschooling even longer (my kids went to school for 8 weeks ever). The great majority of the time, EVERY type of homeschooling has been discussed and respected for the most part. Lots of people may not understand a certain way of doing things or may believe that another style is not for them; but the great majority of people here believe that EVERY style of homeschooling is a valid CHOICE.

 

I believe you're right, there is more than one right way to homeschool. ANY homeschooling style can be right for an individual family.

 

The ONLY issue I have is that *are* people calling what they do "homeschooling" when they most certainly are not. I think that is a HUGE issue and will cause more problems both in the community and with regulation just as it has for public schools. And unfortunately, I've seen a HUGE increase in the number of these situations in the past decade as have many other long term homeschoolers. (for more information, see the homeschool imposters thread we've had recently)

 

:iagree: There are many homeschoolers in my area who do very little by way of academics. The philosophy is for moms to focus on their own educations, with the idea that the kids will learn by watching Mom. Direct instruction is generally avoided, as are textbooks and parent-chosen content. The result is that the kids tend to have gaping holes in skills (especially math). The proponents of this philosophy insist that these holes don't matter because when the children are teenagers they will spend six+ hours per day studying. That will make up for no formal academics in the first six years of school. I've yet to see this spontaneous scholarship happen. I dont doubt it can, but it seems unlikely What I've seen is that most of these kids end up in school.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Laura,

 

I just want to say that I believe the philosophy you are describing is a valid choice which may or may not be right for any family. The reason I say this is because I want it known that I *VERY* much agree that Better Late Than Early, 3R's, relaxed, and unschooling are all perfectly valid homeschooling styles as well as more schoolish styles. The main thing that you list that makes it valid is that it is a CHOSEN style with goals and objectives. Those goals and objectives as well as the method and how it plays out may be considerably different from what other people choose, but those aspects exist.

 

What *I* am describing in my post as a PROBLEM is:

 

1) claiming homeschooling simply to continue abuse or neglect.

2) drop outs doing so legally by claiming homeschooling.

3) and more common: families falling into do-nothingness and non-schooling. They intended to homeschool but haven't diligently kept up with it. Life continually gets in the way, year after year. They get a few days or weeks of schooling done each year and then nothing.

[Veritaserum]

Laura,

 

I just want to say that I believe the philosophy you are describing is a valid choice which may or may not be right for any family. The reason I say this is because I want it known that I *VERY* much agree that Better Late Than Early, 3R's, relaxed, and unschooling are all perfectly valid homeschooling styles as well as more schoolish styles. The main thing that you list that makes it valid is that it is a CHOSEN style with goals and objectives. Those goals and objectives as well as the method and how it plays out may be considerably different from what other people choose, but those aspects exist.

 

What *I* am describing in my post as a PROBLEM is:

 

1) claiming homeschooling simply to continue abuse or neglect.

2) drop outs doing so legally by claiming homeschooling.

3) and more common: families falling into do-nothingness and non-schooling. They intended to homeschool but haven't diligently kept up with it. Life continually gets in the way, year after year. They get a few days or weeks of schooling done each year and then nothing.

 

But they don't do the three R's. They do nothing but have Mom go to book clubs and have a few clubs for the kids. It is very common for kids as old as 9 and 10 to either not be able to read or to barely be able to read. Math isn't done at all because "textbooks are bad". Do they replace it with living math? No. If they even did just the basics (reading, writing, and arithmetic), I wouldn't be very worried. I don't do much more than basics until a child can read well, so I have no problem with delayed/relaxed academics before grade 3. In practice, these families do little to no academics. Not even informally. I was part of this philosophy and left because the older kids/teenagers simply did NOT have the education proponents of the philosophy claimed they would. At some point most of them realize that their kids need more structure or their kids beg for more structure and the kids go to school (very behind).

Edited October 30, 2010 by Veritaserum
Typing on my iPhone

[angela in ohio]

Well, I came here looking for more input on Classical Ed. as well and it has disappointed me at times that many here do not use that approach. However, I don't understand saying that you have to have formal science or start seatwork at 5 to be Classical. WTM leans on the side of not starting formal academics until 6 as well and then starting w/ 1st grade work. It is odd to me that so many start much earlier w/ so much formal things. It advocates teaching math and reading and such in an informal manner until then.

 

The approach to Science by the WTM is really laid back for the early years and I know LCC, CM and others don't advocate any formal schooling until 6. Latin isn't started in WTM until Grade 3.

 

History starts in First in WTM but in LCC the approach is much different. Nothing real formal is introduced afa history until 3rd grade.

 

When and how you teach history and science have a lot less to do with classical education than many other things. I think some are mixing up early formal education with classical education. We are classical, through and through (just ask the other local homeschoolers who think I'm a freak.) But we don't start formal history and science at 4 yo, sorry. :D

[angela in ohio]

I'm with you. This IS a classical board, and there's a lot of "don't worry, you don't need to do anything but the basics in the elementary years" and "just focus on math and reading"....um, I disagree. I don't think that's enough, sorry. This is my opinion, of course, but if you can't handle homeschooling your kids, you need to re-evaluate your life and figure out what exactly is preventing you from giving your children the education they deserve.....which includes science, art, and history (in SOME way)....yes, even in the elementary years. And, imo, you CAN do that with unschooling. I don't think the WTM is the only way.

 

Same thing as I said in the previous post. Earlier, more... those aren't the hallmarks of classical education. I've read blogs and posts here of some of the most relaxed homeschoolers, and they are way more classical than many who look very rigorous from a young age. We are more relaxed in science and history in the early years, and it certainly isn't because I can't handle homeschooling. :D I am more of the 8 hours per day variety. My interpretation of classical, though, from everything I've read and listened to, is not that the rigor or the time spent are the key.

 

I won't even claim that I'm not opionated about this. I honestly fear very much for the parents who spend so much time in K-3 on science projects and giant history programs that they "don't get to" or "need to let them do independently" the very important basic skills of reading, writing, and math. When some of us say to relax on science and history and focus more on the 3Rs, that is what we are responding to.

 

Oh, and btw....just because you're rigorous doesn't mean you're not having fun. :001_smile:

 

We like to say in our family that we have more fun because we are rigorous.

[angela in ohio]

I've noticed that sometimes people post that they don't want any critical posts' date=' or posts from people who disagree, and that may be helpful if you're looking for input from people who are like minded in their approach to homeschooling. :)[/quote']

 

I've not done this, but I can understand it. When you are a more academic and/or classical homeschooler, everything is against you: the majority of homeschooling books, speakers, forums, magazines, friends, etc. I can understand wanting ONE place to ask a question and not be told to just use A Beka or that you are a horrible parent for not unschooling. :001_smile:

 

That is totally different, though, than the people who ask about formal science curriculum for their 2 yos or are freaking out that their 6 yos aren't making As in their algebra program. If you post that, and you get upset when others disagree... well...

Edited October 30, 2010 by angela in ohio

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that most of the time if people say that their philosophy is one of Charlotte Mason or Classical or Unschooling or the Principle Approach or Waldorf, that most people will answer questions with that in mind and will not try to dissuade the person from it. But if someone posts that they are doing xyz and it isn't working at all, you're not going to have a lot of people who are going to tell them to continue doing xyz (even if they would be fine with someone else going with that approach) because it hasn't been working for them. Occasionally of course someone will point out where perhaps they can work within that philosophy and tweak it or perhaps execute it "correctly" so that they will get the desired results.

[Pamela H in Texas]

But they don't do the three R's. They do nothing but have Mom go to book clubs and have a few clubs for the kids. It is very common for kids as old as 9 and 10 to either not be able to read or to barely be able to read. Math isn't done at all because "textbooks are bad". Do they replace it with living math? No. If they even did just the basics (reading, writing, and arithmetic), I wouldn't be very worried. I don't do much more than basics until a child can read well, so I have no problem with delayed/relaxed academics before grade 3. In practice, these families do little to no academics. Not even informally.

 

You certainly don't have to agree with me :) I have a real issue with the things I spoke about because I don't think they should be called homeschooling in any way, shape or form. I really believe that it is detrimental to society as a whole and especially homeschooling to count those.

 

My definition of what are valid homeschooling choices is VERY broad and includes unschooling and more extreme versions of Better Late than Early. I think the definition of homeschooling and the styles incorporated by the term SHOULD be extremely broad.

 

But again, you certainly may disagree. And because I sensed we disagreed, I wrote the other post. I just didn't want to be misunderstood. I don't think we misunderstand each other, we just draw the line in a different place.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think that most of the time if people say that their philosophy is one of Charlotte Mason or Classical or Unschooling or the Principle Approach or Waldorf, that most people will answer questions with that in mind and will not try to dissuade the person from it. But if someone posts that they are doing xyz and it isn't working at all, you're not going to have a lot of people who are going to tell them to continue doing xyz (even if they would be fine with someone else going with that approach) because it hasn't been working for them. Occasionally of course someone will point out where perhaps they can work within that philosophy and tweak it or perhaps execute it "correctly" so that they will get the desired results.

 

I struggle a lot with some of these questions because I've been posting on parenting boards for so long (15 years, I mean, that's crazy!).

 

A mom might say "give me an alternative to SOTW, just reading a text is boring." People will say "oh! Have you tried using the Activity Guide?" Because it's their experience that the AG is helpful, full of interesting things and is *there*, FULL of great resources! But the person will get ticked because they aren't answering the question she wanted answered. It gets really tricky.

[Veritaserum]

You certainly don't have to agree with me :) I have a real issue with the things I spoke about because I don't think they should be called homeschooling in any way, shape or form. I really believe that it is detrimental to society as a whole and especially homeschooling to count those.

 

My definition of what are valid homeschooling choices is VERY broad and includes unschooling and more extreme versions of Better Late than Early. I think the definition of homeschooling and the styles incorporated by the term SHOULD be extremely broad.

 

But again, you certainly may disagree. And because I sensed we disagreed, I wrote the other post. I just didn't want to be misunderstood. I don't think we misunderstand each other, we just draw the line in a different place.

 

I was agreeing with you and clarifying that the people of which I speak are in your #3. :) I have not seen good results from the method that is most popular in my area. I believe good results might be possible, with the right children and parents. But I've seen a lot if families doing it this way and I'm not impressed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But the person will get ticked because they aren't answering the question she wanted answered. It gets really tricky.

 

That is when I start to eye-roll (not at you but at the people who do what you described:)). The point of a message board is that you are going to get a range of ideas. But no one knows 100% your circumstance, your values, your tastes etc. Say "thank you" and then choose what works best for you!

 

On the flip side, I get a bit ticked at posters who own their idea so much that they want to make sure that you do exactly as they say. . . (which doesn't happen as much, but does happen.)

[Pamela H in Texas]

This was started as a classical homeschooling education board, and the people who have chosen to homeschool classically should feel free to offer support from their POV. And honestly, I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. My older 2 boys school 5-6 hours a day, and once my boys turn 5 school is no longer an option and I expect them to sit for phonics, math, and penmanship lessons, and I feel like I'm often frowned upon here because we've chosen to school this way. I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

I most certainly agree with this. Families who classically homeschool most certainly should feel welcome and supported here.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I was agreeing with you and clarifying that the people of which I speak are in your #3. I have not seen good results from the method that is most popular in my area. I believe good results might be possible, with the right children and parents. But I've seen a lot if families doing it this way and I'm not impressed.

 

I understand that but based on your description, *I* would not put them in the same place. I think we just draw the line a little differently. In fact, I'm pretty sure that my family would be one you would not have been impressed with when my own children were 9 or 10. I did what I believed was best at the time based on our circumstances and my philosophy. My own beliefs have changed a little now, but I don't have a new set of kids to practice those with :)

[Miss Sherry]

The one area of homeschooling where I have come across an attitude that there IS ONLY ONE CORRECT way to do something is in regards to phonics. I have come across this attitude among people who use methods that are either Spalding or based on another program that is a spin off of WRTR written by Spalding. Of course not everyone who uses this method has this attitude. But I have heard it voiced very bluntly by some who use it.I think some people have a need to believe that they are the only or most "correct" ones. :tongue_smilie: I realize that many children have done well being taught this way. However, many children have also done very well being taught by various other methods.

One problem with being so rigid about one particular method is that there will end up being some parents who will be so convinced that something is "correct" that regardless of how poor a fit that method is for their child they will push it on them anyway. I've seen it happen. It's a by product of pride and rigid thinking.

I think we need to be aware that there's always more than one way of doing things.

Spalding is NOT the measure of all other phonics programs - as someone recently posted. The measure is whether or not a program meets a particular child's needs.

I think this is true of homeschooling in general. There simply is not ONE way that is a good fit for every family.

[Heather in WI]

I feel like more and more the people who are trying to provide a classical education at home aren't getting the support they need here, which is very frustrating to me. ... I want advice on how to provide a rigorous, classical homeschool education for my boys, but that's kind of hard to come by anymore.

 

 

There are lots of ways to homeschool, but I don't support them all. I also don't think that "anyone can homeschool." I've seen lots of people lower their expectations because it is hard to get their kids to do the work. ...

We need to feel like it is okay to tell people that no, it isn't okay that you don't require xyz. I don't think anyone ever told me that even though I needed to hear it more than once.

 

 

I'm with you. This IS a classical board, and there's a lot of "don't worry, you don't need to do anything but the basics in the elementary years" and "just focus on math and reading"... Oh, and btw....just because you're rigorous doesn't mean you're not having fun. :001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

It appears that a lot of the experienced, rigorous classical homeschooling moms got driven away by the new (the last couple of years) vibe of the board. The (not) funny thing is a couple of the loudest, brashest voices advocating non-classical curricula and/or non-classical methods have now put their kids in school and they still hang out here. :001_huh:

[Miss Sherry]

I struggle a lot with some of these questions because I've been posting on parenting boards for so long (15 years, I mean, that's crazy!).

 

A mom might say "give me an alternative to SOTW, just reading a text is boring." People will say "oh! Have you tried using the Activity Guide?" Because it's their experience that the AG is helpful, full of interesting things and is *there*, FULL of great resources! But the person will get ticked because they aren't answering the question she wanted answered. It gets really tricky.

Yes, I've seen some posts on various topics that people do get really rude on if someone answers a little differently than they phrased the question. I think the real problem with some of those posts is just that the OP is thinking they should have complete control over how others respond to their post. They don't seem to know that they're talking to homeschooers :lol: You can't ever completely box in homeschoolers and tell them you can only do xyz and do it my way only. :lol::lol: That seems to go for questions too. There's more than one way to read and respond to a question. :lol:

"But the person will get ticked because they aren't answering the question she wanted answered." We'll, on a board with thousands of members, a variety of types of responses is bound to happen. To those types of OP's they need to learn to pick and choose which responses to read. They could also phrase their question differently. If they don't want to talk about SOTW don't mention it in their question. Maybe just ask about what all history resources others have used. Many will be mentioned. But to think that SOTW is not going to come up on this site is unreasonable.:001_rolleyes:

Edited October 31, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[Halcyon]

We are more relaxed in science and history in the early years, and it certainly isn't because I can't handle homeschooling. :D I am more of the 8 hours per day variety.

 

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to imply that not doing rigorous science and history in the early years means you can't handle homeschooling...I'm sorry if that came out wrong. What I meant is that in my opinion there needs to be SOME art, science and history in the early years...be that reading Magic Schoolbus books and mixing baking soda and vinegar, flipping through art books and pointing out interesting paintings on a semi-regular basis, or reading books about Columbus, visiting museums etc. You'd be surprised how many hs moms I've met who HATE history and science, and so impart that dislike to their kids...mostly by not ever delving into the topics....I think a love of learning, an inquisitiveness on the part of the teacher, needs to be conveyed to young children..It doesn't need to be formal, I don't think, but I think the magic of discovery needs to be conveyed to young children. I think early, frequent but gentle exposure can be so helpful in laying the groundwork for the later years. Our family tends to do more formal science than many WTM-ers because my boys ask for it, and my oldest loves history, so that's gotta happen. And my husband is an art restorer so....art happens ;)

Edited October 31, 2010 by Halcyon

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

I'm with you. This IS a classical board, and there's a lot of "don't worry, you don't need to do anything but the basics in the elementary years" and "just focus on math and reading"....um, I disagree. I don't think that's enough, sorry. This is my opinion, of course, but if you can't handle homeschooling your kids, you need to re-evaluate your life and figure out what exactly is preventing you from giving your children the education they deserve.....which includes science, art, and history (in SOME way)....yes, even in the elementary years. And, imo, you CAN do that with unschooling. I don't think the WTM is the only way.

 

Oh, and btw....just because you're rigorous doesn't mean you're not having fun. :001_smile:

 

The history curriculum I plan on using with my dc doesn't start the four year history cycle until fourth grade. It repeats again in high school. I'm more than okay with that. :)

[justamouse]

Same thing as I said in the previous post. Earlier, more... those aren't the hallmarks of classical education. I've read blogs and posts here of some of the most relaxed homeschoolers, and they are way more classical than many who look very rigorous from a young age. We are more relaxed in science and history in the early years, and it certainly isn't because I can't handle homeschooling. :D I am more of the 8 hours per day variety. My interpretation of classical, though, from everything I've read and listened to, is not that the rigor or the time spent are the key.

 

I won't even claim that I'm not opionated about this. I honestly fear very much for the parents who spend so much time in K-3 on science projects and giant history programs that they "don't get to" or "need to let them do independently" the very important basic skills of reading, writing, and math. When some of us say to relax on science and history and focus more on the 3Rs, that is what we are responding to.

 

 

 

We like to say in our family that we have more fun because we are rigorous.

 

I agree, word for word.

 

Also, many of us say "slow down" not to say *stop* but because we've been there, done that, and they are on the precipice of burnout. We know how to do this gig for the long haul and it's not by waking the baby up at 6 am to do its phonetics.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to imply that not doing rigorous science and history in the early years means you can't handle homeschooling...I'm sorry if that came out wrong. What I meant is that in my opinion there needs to be SOME art, science and history in the early years...be that reading Magic Schoolbus books and mixing baking soda and vinegar, flipping through art books and pointing out interesting paintings on a semi-regular basis, or reading books about Columbus, visiting museums etc. I think a love of learning, an inquisitiveness on the part of the teacher, needs to be conveyed to young children..It doesn't need to be formal, I don't think, but I think the magic of discovery needs to be conveyed to young children. I think early, frequent but gentle exposure can be so helpful in laying the groundwork for the later years. Our family tends to do more formal science than many WTM-ers because my boys ask for it, and my oldest loves history, so that's gotta happen. And my husband is an art restorer so....art happens ;)

 

Sorry, we must has posted at the same time. Thanks for clarifying.

[Halcyon]

I honestly fear very much for the parents who spend so much time in K-3 on science projects and giant history programs that they "don't get to" or "need to let them do independently" the very important basic skills of reading, writing, and math.

 

I missed this part, Angela, and I 100% agree. Science and History come after math, writing skills and reading.

[DianeW88]

I think the folks that bother me are the ones who insist that their definition of homeschooling is the only one ... and they've been homeschooling a whole whopping 2 years or less. :glare: Puh-lease. :001_rolleyes:

 

:iagree: Also, if you have only ever homeschooled children up to the third grade, please do not offer advice on how to homeschool any child beyond the third grade. You have no idea until you've done it. Sometimes until you've done it more than once.

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: Also, if you have only ever homeschooled children up to the third grade, please do not offer advice on how to homeschool any child beyond the third grade. You have no idea until you've done it. Sometimes until you've done it more than once.

 

I will never forget struggling with my eldest in her pre-teen years. I posted asking for advice from moms who were still homeschooling teenaged girls or had homeschooled teen girls through the high school years ONLY. It did not work. I still got advice from parents of 3 year olds. Boo.

[Pink Fairy]

I will never forget struggling with my eldest in her pre-teen years. I posted asking for advice from moms who were still homeschooling teenaged girls or had homeschooled teen girls through the high school years ONLY. It did not work. I still got advice from parents of 3 year olds. Boo.

 

Yes, but they figured they still had an opinion, and you were entitled to hear it, lol.

 

I'll be the first to admit that I was a much better parent before I had kids--I knew it all, I'm sure. And I was "homeschooling" my of-course-she's-gifted two year old, wondering if it was too early to start teaching her to read. I hope I managed to keep my obnoxiousness to myself, but I probably didn't. I didn't know about message boards back then, so at least I couldn't inflict myself on the early WTM boards.