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How do you understand the Trinity? (cc)

TXMomof4
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TXMomof4

TXMomof4

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After reading the thread about The Shack, I was just wondering what the different views on the Trinity are. We've been doing a study on Sundays about the Trinity and I have to admit I'm as confused as ever.

 

I've heard the description of an apple - 3 parts of one whole. I guess that very basically covers the idea, but there are times when the three are represented as 3 individuals (the baptism of Jesus - Jesus, the man, the Holy Spirit as a dove, the voice of God).

 

I'd just love to see some different POV or explanations to help me get my brain around this.

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mistyb917

mistyb917

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The way we believe it is like this:

 

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost offices of one God. He was the Father; He was the Son; He is the Holy Ghost. It’s three offices or three dispensations, the Fatherhood, the Sonship, and the Holy Ghost dispensation. But Father, Son, and Holy Ghost has one Name, the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Danestress

Danestress

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because a shell is not an egg. It's just a part of an egg. A yolk is not an egg - it's just a part of an egg.

 

But most Christians believe that Jesus is God. He is fully God. He fully expresses God. He's not a sliver of God. He *is* God. The Holy Spirit, according to what I think its the orthodox view, *is* God. He's not a part of God. He is God. If you just have a shell or just have an egg white, you don't have an egg. But if you have the Holy Spirit, that's God. Fully, complete God.

 

I think that is the traditional Christian view, though I know great minds have argued about this for centuries.

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TXMomof4

TXMomof4

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because a shell is not an egg. It's just a part of an egg. A yolk is not an egg - it's just a part of an egg.

 

But most Christians believe that Jesus is God. He is fully God. He fully expresses God. He's not a sliver of God. He *is* God. The Holy Spirit, according to what I think its the orthodox view, *is* God. He's not a part of God. He is God. If you just have a shell or just have an egg white, you don't have an egg. But if you have the Holy Spirit, that's God. Fully, complete God.

 

I think that is the traditional Christian view, though I know great minds have argued about this for centuries.

 

There are many verses that support that - the Spirit is the Lord, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and WAS God, etc. However, they seem to also have distinct purposes (all within one will, of course).

 

I don't know - just something I've been pondering, and pondering, and pondering the last few weeks.

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

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It's a paradox. We can't completely understand it because we ourselves are not infinite. It's kind of like a 3D person trying to understand a 4D one--we know things ABOUT that, but we don't KNOW it completely because it's outside the realm of our experience.

 

So God is both one and three. Each of the three is 100% God. There are not three Gods though, there is only one. And Jesus is 100% God AND 100% human. These incomprehensible facts are cause for praise.

 

In our older hymnal the propers for the Trinity season included the phrase: We worship the Trinity in union and the unity in substance of majesty coequal. How anyone can grow up listening to that every Sunday all summer and most of Fall and not become an English major is an interesting question.

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danivdp

danivdp

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Catholic view by St. Athanasius, exerpt from his Athanasian Creed:

 

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

 

So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm

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Veritaserum

Veritaserum

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My thoughts (and the teachings of my denomination) are that the Trinity is made of three separate entities who work for one purpose. Because they are separate beings, all three can be present in different forms (such as at Christ's baptism). As separate beings, it makes sense for Jesus to pray even while he was alone. Why would Jesus pray to the Father if he is the Father? I also believe that God the Father and Jesus have their own corporeal and perfect bodies. The Holy Spirit does not have a body.

 

I know that these ideas are extremely unpopular among Christians. Some say that these beliefs prevent me from being a "real" Christian. The egg and ice/water/steam explanations are too complicated for me to believe they are true. I know people will have explanations and scriptures to back up their beliefs and attack mine. I'm not interested in debating. I just wanted to share my beliefs with the OP because I also can't understand the Trinity as it is traditionally explained. :) OP can PM me. :)

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Melinda in VT

Melinda in VT

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I don't. :D

 

I grew up with the viewpoint expressed by DianeW88 and Veritaserum. Although I have since left that church for other doctrinal reasons, I've never felt comfortably at home with the traditional view of the Trinity as it has been explained to me.

 

ETA: This doesn't usually bother me, but I do get a little twitchy during Trinity Sunday.

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Joanne

Joanne

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I don't know anymore. I used to offer a "mystical" and "you can't understand" answer that they were 3 in one.

 

I believe in God. I believe in the function and reality of the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus was on earth. But I can't get past his prayer time; I believe, fully human, he prayed to God, the Father. I'll be honest, too, and tell you I never felt like I was praying to Jesus or through Jesus.

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MamaSheep

MamaSheep

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My thoughts (and the teachings of my denomination) are that the Trinity is made of three separate entities who work for one purpose. Because they are separate beings, all three can be present in different forms (such as at Christ's baptism). As separate beings, it makes sense for Jesus to pray even while he was alone. Why would Jesus pray to the Father if he is the Father? I also believe that God the Father and Jesus have their own corporeal and perfect bodies. The Holy Spirit does not have a body.

 

I know that these ideas are extremely unpopular among Christians. Some say that these beliefs prevent me from being a "real" Christian. The egg and ice/water/steam explanations are too complicated for me to believe they are true. I know people will have explanations and scriptures to back up their beliefs and attack mine. I'm not interested in debating. I just wanted to share my beliefs with the OP because I also can't understand the Trinity as it is traditionally explained. :) OP can PM me. :)

:iagree:

 

The three beings in one group explanation lines up better with some other parts of the Bible as well, IMO. For example, when Jesus says he has come not to do His own will, but rather the will of the Father who sent Him. If the Father and Son are the same guy, how do they have separate wills (one of which has been conformed to the other, but each of which is still distinct)? And why would He say He "sent" Himself, instead of just that He decided to go in a particular "form"? And when Jesus prays to the Father that His followers might be one as He is one with the Father, it seems clear (to me, at least) that He asking for them to become unified in purpose, in practice, in belief, etc., a cohesive "body" made up of individual beings working together in perfect harmony--not that He wants them to morph together into a single "being".

 

But I do think that the "oneness" of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (each of whom, individually, is divine and therefore deserving of the title "God") is a little more profound than just working together. I believe it is also a covenantal relationship, with the Father presiding amongst the three equally divine beings. As such, I believe that the three together form a single "entity" (not a being, but entity more in the sense that a committee or board of directors is a legal entity) which can also be properly referred to as "God", meaning the three beings together as a single unit of divine authority. Kind of like in a marriage (ideally) the husband and wife become "one", and are no longer "twain", as the Bible says. What affects one affects the other. They make decisions together to the degree that what one would decide, that's what the other would also say. The two parents together form a single unit of parental authority to their children--when a child goes to one parent he (again, ideally) gets the same answer he'd get from the other one, and they can't be played against each other. They are "one flesh"--two beings, but in a sense, one "unit". But it's not a casual unity formed by two people who happen to be going in the same direction down the road for a while, it's a covenantal bond in which the two lives become the same thread. It's a permanent joining into a single unit. I think of the unity of the three divine beings as being in a similar covenantal vein--only moreso: a permanent bond between the three individual, distinct beings that makes them also "one".

 

The traditional creedal view of the trinity has never matched up well for me with scripture, and I can't accept it as true.

Edited by MamaSheep
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TanuvasaMama

TanuvasaMama

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Why would Jesus pray to the Father if he is the Father?

 

This has always been my question. Why would Jesus pray to the Father if he IS the Father??? Like someone saying I'm a mom, wife, teacher but still the same person...when I'm in mom mode I don't talk to wife mode and ask her questions...does that make sense? My mind just can't comprehend it...

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PineFarmMom

PineFarmMom

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I keep it simple, and therefore it is probably flawed.

 

It is like a glass of ice water, which contains liquid, solid, and gas (from evaporation). Each state contains water molecules (God). If the latter statement is not true, don't mess me up by telling me that. :-)

 

:iagree: That's the way I explain it to my children. Ultimately, I've realized that me fully "getting it" here on earth is not a prerequisite for it being true. That holds true for everything written in His Holy Word, the Bible!! It doesn't quite matter how I "feel" about anything. If His Word says it, then it IS true.

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Whereneverever

Whereneverever

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My church teaches it so:

 

There is one divine essence, which is called and which is truly God, and...there are three persons in the one divine essence, equal in power and alike eternal: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. All three are one divine essence, eternal, without division, without end, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, one creator and preserver of all things visible and invisible." (Augsburg Confession I, 1-3)

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May

May

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Posted
My church teaches it so:

 

There is one divine essence, which is called and which is truly God, and...there are three persons in the one divine essence, equal in power and alike eternal: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. All three are one divine essence, eternal, without division, without end, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, one creator and preserver of all things visible and invisible." (Augsburg Confession I, 1-3)

 

I agree. You must be Lutheran:001_smile:

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HRAAB

HRAAB

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I don't. And I don't try to understand it anymore. Trying to understand those mysteries, getting so involved in theology, about destroyed my faith. With what little faith I have left, I'm content to let those mysteries be. If it's important that I understand it and believe it in a literal way, God's going to have to reveal it to me in a way a mere human can comprehend.

 

I have enough trouble with God let alone the Trinity.

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simka2

simka2

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I don't. And I don't try to understand it anymore. Trying to understand those mysteries, getting so involved in theology, about destroyed my faith. With what little faith I have left, I'm content to let those mysteries be. If it's important that I understand it and believe it in a literal way, God's going to have to reveal it to me in a way a mere human can comprehend.

 

I have enough trouble with God let alone the Trinity.

 

:iagree:Love it! As a 16yr old youth group attendee I asled my youth pastor this convoluted question..."So, if God is the Trinity, should I pray to different aspects of him for different things? For example if it's something I want parental insight on... do I pray to the Father? Or, if it's sin related... do I pray to Jesus? Or, if I'm unsure, do I pray to the Holy Spirit?" :001_huh:

 

No wonder I chose to go to seminary :tongue_smilie:! Now, after becomeing an "all knowing" theology student (hear the sarcasim?) I'm back to..."God is big, I am not." There is more to Him than I could ever grasp.

 

But, sometimes life would be a lot easier if he would just fit into a box!!! :D

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mom31257

mom31257

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I've always viewed it as the way we are since we are made in His image.

 

I have a body (Jesus), a mind (Father God), and a soul (Holy Spirit). They are all me but in one person. I just don't have the supernatural power that God does to cause my body to come to earth while the rest of me remained in heaven.

 

Does that make sense?

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MamaSheep

MamaSheep

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I've always viewed it as the way we are since we are made in His image.

 

I have a body (Jesus), a mind (Father God), and a soul (Holy Spirit). They are all me but in one person. I just don't have the supernatural power that God does to cause my body to come to earth while the rest of me remained in heaven.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Surely you are not saying that Jesus had no mind or soul while He lived amongst men on Earth?

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Scarlett

Scarlett

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Sweetie, there was no condescending in my voice. I'm sorry that my humor upset you. It was just to good an opportunity for me to pass ;).

 

Ok, honey darlin'. "Mommy voice" is not condescending at all. Thank you for clearing that up in such a sweet Christian spirit. ;)

 

 

 

Bless y'all's hearts!

 

:D

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Caitilin

Caitilin

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I am with those who like the Athanasian idea of the Godhead, but finally, I always come back to "it's a great Mystery." And personally, I don't think I could believe it if I could understand it. If I really understand it, it's not God. As I see it, the Divine is so beyond us, in every dimension, that while we can and should study and learn as much about it as we can, it is fundamentally "inaccessible, and hid from our eyes," in the words of the hymn. I am much more confident in not understanding God than I would be in understanding Him. :)

 

PS--MamaSheep, please don't bow out--your voice is appreciated. I truly think Simka was being funny--it was just one of those lost-in-cyber-translation moments.

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RhondaM.

RhondaM.

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I don't. And I don't try to understand it anymore. Trying to understand those mysteries, getting so involved in theology, about destroyed my faith. With what little faith I have left, I'm content to let those mysteries be. If it's important that I understand it and believe it in a literal way, God's going to have to reveal it to me in a way a mere human can comprehend.

 

I have enough trouble with God let alone the Trinity.

 

Oh, thank you! Yep, exactly!

 

I spent the last 15 yrs in a church where it was almost like the importance of understanding the oneness of God (verses the Trinity) was more important than anything else. You had to have the revelation, ya know, or you were just, like, DOOMED! (I've been away form this church for a year now.)

 

I always think back to the past when illiterate people couldn't read the Bible, but just had to depend on what people told them. Am I to believe that their lack of understanding is going to send them to hell? Sorry. I don't think that.

 

I think that if there is a Christian God in heaven the most important thing is to just believe that He IS. (which I'm not sure that I even believe that anymore. :glare:)

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MamaSheep

MamaSheep

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I am with those who like the Athanasian idea of the Godhead, but finally, I always come back to "it's a great Mystery." And personally, I don't think I could believe it if I could understand it. If I really understand it, it's not God. As I see it, the Divine is so beyond us, in every dimension, that while we can and should study and learn as much about it as we can, it is fundamentally "inaccessible, and hid from our eyes," in the words of the hymn. I am much more confident in not understanding God than I would be in understanding Him. :)

 

PS--MamaSheep, please don't bow out--your voice is appreciated. I truly think Simka was being funny--it was just one of those lost-in-cyber-translation moments.

 

Thanks. We'll see.

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MamaSheep

MamaSheep

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Posted (edited)
:lol::lol::lol: That was awesome!!!

;)

 

We good then?

 

You might want to be a little careful about how you use your mommy voice in future. I hope you can imagine how that sounded from my end.

 

Hopefully Amy in GA will come back and answer my question still. I really am curious what she thinks about whether Jesus was really just a body walking around without a mind or soul...or with mind and soul sort of outsourced elsewhere or something. It seems like a pretty bizarre concept of God to me, but then so do the egg, apple, and cherry pie explanations that seem so common.

Edited by MamaSheep
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Mejane

Mejane

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Surely you are not saying that Jesus had no mind or soul while He lived amongst men on Earth?

 

It was an honest question. I see no need for you to be condescending about it.

 

"Surely you are not saying..." smacks more of a throwdown than an "honest question."

 

 

You might want to be a little careful about how you use your mommy voice in future. I hope you can imagine how that sounded from my end.

 

 

 

You might want to be a little careful about how you phrase your questions in future. ;)

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MamaSheep

MamaSheep

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"Surely you are not saying..." smacks more of a throwdown than an "honest question."

 

 

 

You might want to be a little careful about how you phrase your questions in future. ;)

 

You are probaby right. I found the statement I was responding to rather startling, and that did come through in my question.

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Pretty in Pink

Pretty in Pink

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I don't believe that we can fully understand it, but I have explained it to my children like this:

 

I am one person, but I have many roles. I am a wife, a mother, a sister, a friend, etc. God is one being, but He manifests in different forms to fulfill different roles: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

I know it's kind of simplistic.

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