Adopting a child older than bio children?

[the4Rs]

Let me preface by saying our situation is rather unique but I still value the opinions of those who have insight about adoption.

 

We have two kids (see ages below) and we currently fully sponsor(we pay for his food, education, personal items, and medical) a 10 year old orphan boy from Sierra Leone Africa. At the moment the country is closed to international adoptions but there is much talk they will reopen very soon. We have sponsored him for nearly a year when he was brought to the orphanage from his grandmother's house who raised him since infancy. We send letters, pictures and get many update pictures of him, letters from him, and tomorrow we are going to get to video skype talk with him for the first time!! We are hoping to be able to go next year to see him.

 

My husband and I have been burdened for Joseph and seriously love him. He is very much a part of our family even so far apart. With talks about opening adoptions up we are thinking about pursuing adopting him.

 

But he is significantly older than our kids and I know there are many who say never adopt children older than your own. I know statistics...I guess I just want to know if you would pursue the adoption anyway. Why or why not? I want to be fair to him and the needs he'll have as well as fair to our current children.

Edited September 30, 2010 by the4Rs

[CalicoKat]

Let me preface by saying our situation is rather unique but I still value the opinions of those who have adopted.

 

We have two kids (see ages below) and we currently fully sponsor(we pay for his food, education, personal items, and medical) a 10 year old orphan boy from Sierra Leone Africa. At the moment the country is closed to international adoptions but there is much talk they will reopen very soon. We have sponsored him for nearly a year when he was brought to the orphanage from his grandmother's house who raised him since infancy. We send letters, pictures and get many update pictures of him, letters from him, and tomorrow we are going to get to video skype talk with him for the first time!! We are hoping to be able to go next year to see him.

 

My husband and I have been burdened for Joseph and seriously love him. He is very much a part of our family even so far apart. With talks about opening adoptions up we are thinking about pursuing adopting him.

 

But he is significantly older than our kids and I know there are many who say never adopt children older than your own. I know statistics...I guess I just want to know if you would pursue the adoption anyway. Why or why not? I want to be fair to him and the needs he'll have as well as fair to our current children.

Proceed with your heart and mind wide open. I don't think that anyone can tell you absolutely what is right for your family. But I do think that God can lead us and even though it boggles the mind it turns out very very good.

:grouphug: praying for you as you explore this fully.

[DawnM]

I have some homeschool friends who just did this! They sponsored a Russian orphan to come for 6 weeks in the summer and ever since have wanted to adopt him and they just did! He is older than their 3 children.

 

If you would like, I can have you two exchange emails (with asking her first) and you can ask her about it.

 

Just PM me your email if you would like.

 

Dawn

[Julie in Austin]

In general, no. You have no idea if this child has been sexualized, is violent, has RAD, etc. And it may be that no one else knows this, or they may hide this info from you. (We've seen that happen.) The safety of the children already in your home must come first.

 

But sometimes God overrides the standard operating procedure . . . be open to that.

[Dobela]

We know a couple of families that have done this and things have worked out ok. We know others that it was a nightmare.

 

This child is coming from a country that has been turbulent. It may be fine, but there could be some serious issues. I would go into it eyes wide open. I would go to places like adoption.org and join the forums asking lots and lots of questions.

[Denisemomof4]

do you know about RAD? Do you know how traumatized children behave? Are you prepared to sacrifice the well being of your children and family, IF this child has RAD? (all RAD kids have been traumatized, but not all traumatized kids have RAD) If this child has been sexually abused, your children will be in danger. Are you prepared for that?

 

 

I have three bio kids and my youngest is adopted. I can't let her out of my sight for ONE SECOND. If I do, an animal is hurt, the house is destroyed, or some other bad thing will happen. I can't even go to the bathroom alone. Half the time I shower, my RAD dd is right outside the shower stall. I have to do every stinking thing in her presence. Sometimes I'll have the kids watch her, but she ALWAYS causes problems.

 

I've never worked at anything so hard in my life. I've never felt so desperate to help anyone. I've never felt such disgust that I didn't care. I've never felt so guilty for what it's done to my family. If I could reverse the clock, I would. Saving the life of one child came at a VERY steep price as it ruined the lives of five. We try to make it work but it's always an uphill battle. Life before RAD was not perfect but was so peaceful, joyful, etc. I'd do ANYTHING to have our family back to the state it was before her. ALL my kids have paid the price for adopting, as have I, my husband, our marriage. I truly didn't know what I was getting into.

 

And, today was NOT a good day so sorry for the doom and gloom. Adoption just isn't a bed of roses. You can end up with the biggest blessing in your life, but you can also end up ruining the lives of many. Please do your research, be realistic, and think this through. I can pretty much guarantee you won't get the full truth on his background. And once the adoption is final, you're on your own. Unless you're in a good area, finding adequate help is nearly impossible. And HUGELY expensive.

 

Adopting older children is much more challenging. It will be harder to heal him. Not impossible, but a TON of work.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

We were paper ready to adopt and older child from Liberia, but never did. Though our emotions and heart were more than willing and wanting, it was our heads that stopped us. We had two little ones at the time. Since then, our decision has been confirmed over and over again. I just read this recently and thought it was extremely wise and although it may seem a bit dramatic, ask the parents whose natural children have been sexually abused by their adopted children if they think so or wished they hadn't received such a sober warning beforehand.

 

Right here in our own community a family adopted three children from Liberia. We warned them, but they were so caught up with good feelings about how they were sacrificing their lives to save poor starving children from orphanages that they danced their way into tragedy. They have several children younger than the three adopted kids, who, unknowing to them, were well versed in all the dark arts of eroticism and ghastly perversion.

 

We have received many letters from families who have adopted children from overseas, quite a few from Liberia, and nearly every one of them—if not all—told sad stories of the fall of their natural children into sexual deviance.

 

I will say this again. Never adopt children even close to the age of your own. You should be past child bearing age, and your children should be at least 10 to 15 years older than the adopted kids. I don’t think there is any such thing as an orphanage raised child who has not been a participant in sexual perversion. If you are older and your kids are grown, it is a wonderful, full time ministry to adopt foreign kids. You will experience heartache, possibly failure, but you may just save a soul from sure destruction. But if there is failure, at least your kids will not go down with them.

Edited September 30, 2010 by mommyjen

[Denisemomof4]

We were paper ready to adopt and older child from Liberia, but never did. Though our emotions and heart were more than willing and wanting, it was our heads that stopped us. We had two little ones at the time. Since then, our decision has been confirmed over and over again. I just read this recently and thought it was extremely wise and although it may seem a bit dramatic, ask the parents whose natural children have been sexually abused by their adopted children if they think so or wished they hadn't received such a sober warning beforehand.

 

it's not only dangerous to adopt older children. I fear for my bio dd's safety when both girls are older. I have for years, and my a-dd is 7. She's already tried to spook a horse while dd10 was riding it, and when I got angry and asked why, her response was, "I wanted to see dd10 get hurt." My sons worry my a-dd will harm bio dd or their parents when they get older. It's something that NEVER leaves our minds.

[Dobela]

it's not only dangerous to adopt older children. I fear for my bio dd's safety when both girls are older. I have for years, and my a-dd is 7. She's already tried to spook a horse while dd10 was riding it, and when I got angry and asked why, her response was, "I wanted to see dd10 get hurt." My sons worry my a-dd will harm bio dd or their parents when they get older. It's something that NEVER leaves our minds.

Denise :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: We attempted to adopt 2 girls, age 4 and 5, and found out after they moved in that they were both RAD. Our lives were a nightmare. And it only lasted a few months, not years, but only because we quit. We lost friends because we stopped, but they didn't understand. I can't imagine doing it for years. The oldest was molesting every child she could and would try to choke her sister to death each night. She would physically assault my son. Run away, lie, steal, destroy...

 

I believe that all children need homes and families. I just don't believe in sacrificing what I already have any more. Call me jaded.

[anneofalamo]

I so don't want to dissuade you, but I highly highly recommend so much research, adoption.com has live chat rooms, and international adoptive parents that can help you also.

 

Sacrifice?

How far is enough is something you must come up with as a team, as a family.

 

Adoption thru foster care, made our family, but it has been 7 years and the traumatic, totally insane things that happened, my head looks back and I came very close many times, to saying I quit, to someone that was in authority. I did say it often in my closet, in tears.

 

It isn't all happy happy, I think you know that, and your heart is so open to help. I just ask you to research and do nothing that has to be done NOW, time is important. Please don't do anything in a rush mode.

[the4Rs]

Thank you all for your kind and concerned responses. Please know that we are not rushing into anything. For one, the country is still closed to adoptions. Two the new laws will require quite a bit of time in country before you can even adopt. That may rule us out anyway.

 

He does have a grandmother but no other family. And grandma was taking care of 5 kids orphaned from the civil war and trying to provide for them selling small fruits and veggies. She couldn't do it anymore. His parents are both dead.

 

I also know that he is given the best chance to do something great with his life in his own country and to turn the tide against all the darkness still abounding there...but I also know every child deserves a family.

 

The ministry we work with is not hiding things as best we can tell (obviously we don't have the full picture) but I tell you that this ministry is not run like any we have ever seen before. They were very realistic about his past with us...and there is trauma there mostly from the time he was a baby, more of it was trauma from loss of parents. I am not looking at this with rose colored glasses.

 

Obviously we wouldn't pursue anything without physically meeting him and interacting with him. Just thinking through some things mentally and doing a lot of praying.

 

Well I am off to talk to him on skype!

[Saille]

In general, no. You have no idea if this child has been sexualized, is violent, has RAD, etc. And it may be that no one else knows this, or they may hide this info from you. (We've seen that happen.) The safety of the children already in your home must come first.

 

But sometimes God overrides the standard operating procedure . . . be open to that.

 

This is exactly what I was going to say. Please be very diligent about getting good information. I have seen adoptive parents end up in some extremely difficult and dangerous situations. We've considered doing foster care when our kids are teens, but only for much younger children.

[Lisa in Jax]

 

Obviously we wouldn't pursue anything without physically meeting him and interacting with him. Just thinking through some things mentally and doing a lot of praying.

 

Well I am off to talk to him on skype!

 

Seven years ago, we adopted two kids from an orphanage. The paperwork said that they'd lived with their bio mom until her death and had only come to the orphanage after her death. On PAPER, it appeared that they'd been raised in a family before placement at the orphanage. The older child, who was 8 when we adopted her, SEEMED like a sweet, loving child when we met her. The reality was that she'd been neglected, abused and sexualized before placement in the orphanage. Five years after adoption, after counseling, and more counseling, and structure and love and meds and therapists and parenting classes and experts, she threatened to kill me. She had five different ways in mind...

 

My bio dd suffered terribly while she was here. Luckily, she was twice the size of her sister, so she was not physically abused by her. Mentally, though, the time her sister lived here took a HUGE toll.

 

I remember the feeling of falling in love with the child you want to adopt before you've even met him. We did the same thing. Unfortunately, you're falling in love with a child you assume is like your children -- loving, eager to learn, kind, caring. This child *may* be that way, or he may not be. Sometimes, the abuse and neglect and trauma change the child forever. That was the case with our adopted daughter. She was no longer a loving, parent-able child. Instead, she was violent, aggressive, and had psychotic breaks. She lied, she ran away, and she manipulated -- all while appearing to be the sweetest, most responsible, most loving kid to her friends, teachers and non-family members.

 

Talking on Skype or meeting him in person will not tell you if he has issues. EVERY kid with RAD I've ever met (and I've met probably a hundred!) was charming and adorable. A meeting will tell you very little, IMO.

 

Sorry to be a downer, but you need to consider the possible realities. Adopting this child could be a wonderful thing for your family. Or, it could be the thing that changes your younger two forever. :(

 

Lisa

[Haiku]

When you adopt a child from an orphanage, you will never know the full story of that child's life. Period. Even if the orphanage claims to tell you everything they know, and even if they seem to be populated with the best, most caring people in the universe, you will never know the full story. The orphanage never knows the full story anyway.

 

We adopted a child significantly older than our other kids (oldest is now 16). Would I do it again? No. After years of heartache we have finally reached a point where I don't fear every day that our family is going to disintegrate in front of my very eyes, but the toll it has taken on all of us (including the above-referenced child, who never wanted this anyway) ... I would never voluntarily go through that again.

 

Tara

[the4Rs]

Very true. You never know the whole story. I am not assuming I do. Just seeing where God is leading us. I don't want to be ahead of Him and assume this is the best thing. If it what we are supposed to do then we'll do it. If this is not what God is desiring for our family to go through, we will not.

 

I know more about his personal history but don't feel comfortable sharing it on here as it is his story but I know he has had a rough life, the resulting effects from the brutal civil war there but I also don't want to underestimate the power of Jesus Christ to restore a life.

 

Whether we pursue adopting him or not, he is still a part of our family and we'll be helping him through college no matter what. The lady who put the ministry together even said that he may or may not be the child God wants us to adopt. We just have to be open to hearing His voice in the matter.

[Murmer]

Wow! Be open but read read read read read...read about adopting internationally, read about institutionalized children and some of the effects, read about families that are parenting non-infant adoption, and read about the heartache of disruption. I can't say if this is not the right path but know that it could be the most difficult thing you have ever done. It will forever change your family and only you can decided if it is worth all the heart ache, time ect with attachment.

[katilac]

Absolutely not, for all the reasons listed by other posters.

 

I also think you should keep in mind that he is already 10 years old. You hope to meet him when he is 11. That would realistically peg the adoption age much closer to 12 or 13 at best - - just a few short years from adulthood in our own country, much less his. I think you could give him far more help at far less risk by simply continuing to sponsor him in his own country, with an eye to continuing his education or possibly setting him up in a small business, etc.

 

He has his grandmother there, even if she can't care for him, and quite possibly other family members who are also unable to take him in. They're still family, y'know? You can always try to sponsor him for a visa if he decides as an adult that he wants to leave his country for America.

[mommaduck]

He has family. I wouldn't take him from his family and culture unless he was in danger there/ they asked me to/ major extenuating circumstances. It would be traumatic. I am not saying that is universally the wrong choice, but I would be extremely cautious.

:iagree: Not only that, but the education you helping to pay for for him over there is applicable to his life now and can be a great benefit to his community. Encourage him in that and where he is.

[Pippen]

My husband and I have been burdened for Joseph and seriously love him. He is very much a part of our family even so far apart. With talks about opening adoptions up we are thinking about pursuing adopting him.

 

 

To me this is like a long distance romance with someone you haven't met who lives across the world. You love him and consider him a part of your family in these current circumstances. In real life that relationship may or may not work out the same way it did across the miles, but unlike marriage it's not easy to back out from a foreign adoption once it's a done deal.

 

Do your homework, including the financial and emotional costs to the family should things not go well.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Pippen

[Laurie4b]

He has family. I wouldn't take him from his family and culture unless he was in danger there/ they asked me to/ major extenuating circumstances. It would be traumatic. I am not saying that is universally the wrong choice, but I would be extremely cautious.

 

:iagree: I think you are loving him better by your sponsorship than you would if you uprooted him and brought him here. Orphanages are not blanketly horrible places to be. If they are run well, they are actually better for children with RAD than a family is.

[Dobela]

 

 

Obviously we wouldn't pursue anything without physically meeting him and interacting with him. Just thinking through some things mentally and doing a lot of praying.

 

Well I am off to talk to him on skype!

When we were considering adopting our girls, we spent over 2 weeks visiting with them, taking them places with our family, and going to the home they were living in. All seemed ok. Once in our home the honeymoon lasted all of 2 days before everything fell apart. Children with RAD are often able to hold it together and give you a honeymoon period before life gets bad. Just getting to know him by phone and a visit or 2 may not give you a real knowledge of him unfortunately.

 

Dandelion on My Pillow, Butcher Knife Beneath by Nancy Thomas is a powerful book by a woman who adopted and did foster care with severely RAD children and teens. While her methods are sometimes controversial in the FC community, her experiences are real. The book is honest. Out of all the stories in the book there is one success story - and it is beautiful. But it is just 1.

 

There is a large group on yahoo called RAD FAS Kids Those parents are dealing with RAD and some have very severe cases in their home. Most are parents of older children by adoption. I highly recommend joining the group as you think, pray and consider. The wealth of knowledge there is incredible.

 

I spoke to a friend last night aobut her 2 brothers - adopted from a war torn country in Africe about 10 years ago as early teens. Both were being raised by their grandmothers but her dad was able to get to know the boys while he was there as a medical worker for several months. When they finally came to the US the transition was very, very rough. They tell stories of the war that are just awful. They watched friends kill others so they wouldn't be killed. They watched parents being killed in front of their eyes. They were beaten, abused, starving, and more. And this was while 'living with family'. Then after coming to the US the life was so very different that that became a struggle. Other boys their ages couldn't relate to them. They were overwhelmed by the wealth of everyone around them. They had PTSD. While they spoke English, it was not their first language. Now one of her brothers is ok. He is married, working hard in college, and wants to return to his country as a doctor. The other is still really struggling and brings much grief to her parents. While not severely RAD he still has serious, hard to work on issues that effect everyone else.

 

:grouphug:

[Remudamom]

I'll add another story. Dh's cousins adopted from Russia, twins that were about the age of your boy. Nightmare. Cousin sent them to ps because she didn't think it was fair to send them to the Christian school because they were such a problem.

 

Their list of offenses is long. Cousins thought they could do some good for the girls, but they ended up as bad or worse than they would have been in Russia. I think one of them might still be in jail.

[G5052]

I live in an area where foreign adoptions are fairly common and where there are professionals available who understand the medical and psychological issues, and we have a friend who is a social worker with a county foster-to-adoption program and we know families who have done this.

 

With what I know in that context, I personally would be very wary of a foreign adoption of an older child under any circumstance. I can't think of a single case among those I know personally of that didn't throw the family into significant turmoil. I don't know of a single family in my circles who would do it again if they knew what it involved. Several had to send the adopted child elsewhere to restore order in their home.

 

On the other hand, I know several families who have gone the domestic foster-to-adoption route. Only children who are good candidates for adoption go into this program, and there is much more support for the parents before and after. And they are used to living in families in pretty much the same culture, so there are fewer issues that way.

 

You're very kind to think of this, but I'd focus on helping him where he is versus bringing him here.

Edited September 30, 2010 by GVA

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

We prayed and prayed and felt such joy and love. Lot's of good feelings. In the end, we decide the risk was too great.

[mommaduck]

When we were considering adopting our girls, we spent over 2 weeks visiting with them, taking them places with our family, and going to the home they were living in. All seemed ok. Once in our home the honeymoon lasted all of 2 days before everything fell apart. Children with RAD are often able to hold it together and give you a honeymoon period before life gets bad. Just getting to know him by phone and a visit or 2 may not give you a real knowledge of him unfortunately.

 

Dandelion on My Pillow, Butcher Knife Beneath by Nancy Thomas is a powerful book by a woman who adopted and did foster care with severely RAD children and teens. While her methods are sometimes controversial in the FC community, her experiences are real. The book is honest. Out of all the stories in the book there is one success story - and it is beautiful. But it is just 1.

 

There is a large group on yahoo called RAD FAS Kids Those parents are dealing with RAD and some have very severe cases in their home. Most are parents of older children by adoption. I highly recommend joining the group as you think, pray and consider. The wealth of knowledge there is incredible.

 

I spoke to a friend last night aobut her 2 brothers - adopted from a war torn country in Africe about 10 years ago as early teens. Both were being raised by their grandmothers but her dad was able to get to know the boys while he was there as a medical worker for several months. When they finally came to the US the transition was very, very rough. They tell stories of the war that are just awful. They watched friends kill others so they wouldn't be killed. They watched parents being killed in front of their eyes. They were beaten, abused, starving, and more. And this was while 'living with family'. Then after coming to the US the life was so very different that that became a struggle. Other boys their ages couldn't relate to them. They were overwhelmed by the wealth of everyone around them. They had PTSD. While they spoke English, it was not their first language. Now one of her brothers is ok. He is married, working hard in college, and wants to return to his country as a doctor. The other is still really struggling and brings much grief to her parents. While not severely RAD he still has serious, hard to work on issues that effect everyone else.

 

:grouphug:

Culture shock is a heavy consideration.

[jeri]

I will first say that I have three bios (13, 10, and 7), and three adopted (13, adopted almost 5 years ago, from eastern Europe), and 10 and 9 (adopted two years ago from Africa). None are older than our bio eldest, but you can see that they were not all that young when we brought them home!

 

Do I have crazy times? Is this the hardest thing dh and I have done? Have I put one or two in ps for a time because I can't have them at home? Have we had things happen that I was sure would put me over the edge? All the answers here are yes.

 

I will say that we are so fortunate that we don't have RAD kids or se*ual abuse. But it is something to definitely consider when adopting older kids. It is definitely a risk. Honestly, I would be concerned with having other children that young, and an older boy. But I will not give you a horror story because we have not had that.

 

Go in with your eyes wide open, realize that what you see isn't necessarily what you get, realize that everyone has "baggage" (some good, some bad and some unknown, even to the person) I agree with other post-ers that sometimes you can do so much more by sponsoring a child long term in their own country. But I wouldn't characterize every adopted child as RAD.

 

Jeri

[lionfamily1999]

Absolutely not, for all the reasons listed by other posters.

 

I also think you should keep in mind that he is already 10 years old. You hope to meet him when he is 11. That would realistically peg the adoption age much closer to 12 or 13 at best - - just a few short years from adulthood in our own country, much less his. I think you could give him far more help at far less risk by simply continuing to sponsor him in his own country, with an eye to continuing his education or possibly setting him up in a small business, etc.

 

He has his grandmother there, even if she can't care for him, and quite possibly other family members who are also unable to take him in. They're still family, y'know? You can always try to sponsor him for a visa if he decides as an adult that he wants to leave his country for America.

:iagree: My sil's family did this. They "raised" a young boy in Africa through their gifts and letters. When he was ready to attend college, they helped him get his Visa and he moved in. He's really wonderful and he does love his American family. It worked out very well for all involved and my sil's parents never had to worry that he would hurt their bio children.

Once in our home the honeymoon lasted all of 2 days before everything fell apart. Children with RAD are often able to hold it together and give you a honeymoon period before life gets bad. Just getting to know him by phone and a visit or 2 may not give you a real knowledge of him unfortunately.

:grouphug:

:iagree:

[Guest GoldenGopher]

I would never ever again adopt older children with younger bio children in the home. We adopted 4, not knowing anything about RAD, or attachment disorder and it turned out that all 4 were RAD. We lost everything attempting to get everyone through therapy and more....be very careful. Know exactly what you are getting into, and if he is RAD or has any of the other mis-diagnosed ADD, ADHD, Bi-Polar disorders understand it is probably more likely he is RAD. Sorry....you have an awesome heart!

[the4Rs]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and stories with me.

 

I don't want to start a side tangent here but there were several times where I saw people type "he has his own family in that country so he's better off with them".....

 

Now culturally I agree with you that he'd thrive in his own country given his current circumstances but none of you know the family dynamics as I do. He literally only has his grandmother who is old....elderly do not live as long there as they do in the U.S. His father is from another country and he'll never meet his family from there. So while in essence I agree about his culture...he truly won't have a family to go home to. That does bother me.

 

But I also think taking all the kids out of the country who are being given a chance to thrive will not help the country in the long term. So I am torn. Again, we are not naive. I have read the bad stories and they scare me. I am not dancing on a cloud of rainbows here living in la-la land. But, and I stress this, I want to be right in the middle of where God desires us to be. Whatever that is.

 

I know He is calling our family to adoption....when, where, who are still up in the air. We have a lot more questions than answers right now and I do value all input. Thanks again for sharing.

 

Oh and Pippin- I had to laugh at your comment about a long distance relationship with someone you don't know.... that was literally how my husband and I met. We met online, lived a long distance apart and didn't meet for a very long time in person. However, I view marriage the same as children.....in for the long haul. Not easy to get out of in my mind. But your analogy actually reminded me of my marriage. And we are GREAT! Not without a lot of baggage...but still.

Edited September 30, 2010 by the4Rs

[FaithManor]

My grandparents supported a little girl in a Korean orphanage through a Christian ministry until she was old enough for college. It was a wonderful set up. Though, in theory, they would have liked to have adopted her and she was legally free, grandpa wisely felt that she was too old to adjust well to the culture, new family, etc. and could possibly do her more harm than good.

 

It worked out so well. They kept a high level of contact with her and even helped with some tuition money. She came here for one year, as a grown woman, and it was wonderful. She lives in Korea now, an educated woman (about ten years older than my grandparents' oldest grandchild) who works tirelessly on behalf of her people.

 

Given the child's age, I think that it would be much harder for him to come now and make all of the necessary adjustments than for you to continue the monetary and emotionals support through these last few years. Then, as an adult, if he wants to come to America for college or vocational training, you can be his sponsor family, he can live with you for a trial period which won't be so dangerous because your children will be much older, and if it works out, great. If it doesn't work out, then he can live on campus. The pressure to form a new family unit will be off. But, as a more mature individual, he may be quite capable of forming new bonds at that time.

 

Faith

[Denisemomof4]

Denise :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: We attempted to adopt 2 girls, age 4 and 5, and found out after they moved in that they were both RAD. Our lives were a nightmare. And it only lasted a few months, not years, but only because we quit. We lost friends because we stopped, but they didn't understand. I can't imagine doing it for years. The oldest was molesting every child she could and would try to choke her sister to death each night. She would physically assault my son. Run away, lie, steal, destroy...

 

I believe that all children need homes and families. I just don't believe in sacrificing what I already have any more. Call me jaded.

:crying::crying::crying: I'm going through a difficult time now that our homeschool group started up. Dd is such a perfect little angel who goes out of her way to impress the socks off of everyone there, and then comes home and is awful to her family. It's so difficult.

 

My biggest worry, though, is what she may try to do to one of us one day. This is why she's in my sight 24/7. Once younger ds leaves for college, dh and I won't be able to leave the house together, EVER, because I couldn't trust her with dd10 for one second. I won't allow anything to happen, so she's with me all the time.

 

I don't believe all children deserve a family. Well, they DESERVE a family, but I don't think it's in the best interest of the CHILD, let alone the rest of the family, to be forced to bond with someone they don't love or know. My dd, for example, likely would have been better off in an orphanage where the pressure to bond and connect wouldn't have been there; the fear of rejection and losing us wouldn't have been there, so the resultant bad behavior to drive us all away wouldn't be something she felt she needed to do all the time. I think she would have been in her comfort level in the orphanage.

 

BUT, she's fed well here, she's got great opportunities (that she regularly sabotages) while she still has tremendous fear of the nighttime hours, she is SAFE at night here, she is medically cared for here. So her physical being is better here, but her psychological side is another story.

 

I can hope and pray, and I can be realistic about our future, too. But I can not keep silent if my experience can help one single person.

[FaithManor]

Denise,

 

I am so sorry we don't live in the same state. Otherwise, DH and I would do some respite care for you so you could have a normal family vacation. We've done respite care for friends who do foster care for RAD kids so we are very well aware of their "charming, disarming" personalities that allow everyone on the outside to think they are wonderful while they systematically dismantle the lives of their family members.

 

(((HUGS)) Praying that some how, some where, some one finds a respite care person for you.

 

Faith

[Denisemomof4]

 

Obviously we wouldn't pursue anything without physically meeting him and interacting with him. Just thinking through some things mentally and doing a lot of praying.

 

Well I am off to talk to him on skype!

 

Please understand that in all likelihood you will never see his disturbing behaviors, if he has them, until he's in your home for an extended period of time. Usually the honeymoon phase is a minimum of 6 months, sometimes longer.

[Haiku]

Please understand that in all likelihood you will never see his disturbing behaviors, if he has them, until he's in your home for an extended period of time.

 

Our daughter was delightful before she came home and for the first two months. Then everything went to hell.

 

Tara

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

God was calling us to adopt, too. And we still see that possibility, but it will be when we are older and our bio children are out of the home and have no possibility of suffering and neglect due to adopted child's neediness and/or behavior, or it will be a baby given to us soon after birth, special needs is fine with us.

 

What we understood much later was that we ran ahead of God with the timing of adopting. God spoke to many in the bible years and years b4 he fufilled that promise.

Edited September 30, 2010 by mommyjen

[Denisemomof4]

Denise,

 

I am so sorry we don't live in the same state. Otherwise, DH and I would do some respite care for you so you could have a normal family vacation. We've done respite care for friends who do foster care for RAD kids so we are very well aware of their "charming, disarming" personalities that allow everyone on the outside to think they are wonderful while they systematically dismantle the lives of their family members.

 

(((HUGS)) Praying that some how, some where, some one finds a respite care person for you.

 

Faith

 

Aaaaawww, thanks Sweetie. Most days I'm numb to it all and just accept this as our new way of life. Sometimes, though, it's just not possible.

[ZooRho]

In general, no. You have no idea if this child has been sexualized, is violent, has RAD, etc. And it may be that no one else knows this, or they may hide this info from you. (We've seen that happen.) The safety of the children already in your home must come first.

 

But sometimes God overrides the standard operating procedure . . . be open to that.

THis

 

we foster/to adopt child but the child was an american and our family has never been the same,

 

But things could be diffrent for you.

[mommama]

In general, no. You have no idea if this child has been sexualized, is violent, has RAD, etc. And it may be that no one else knows this, or they may hide this info from you. (We've seen that happen.) The safety of the children already in your home must come first.

 

But sometimes God overrides the standard operating procedure . . . be open to that.

 

Agreed! If you choose to proceed, you must parent as though he has all of the issues listed above--you will not likely get disclosure of said issues. This will mean line-of-sight supervision whenever he has access to your younger children. Ensuring limited movement at night while everyone's asleep (simple door and window alarms allow everyone to sleep safely) and therapeutic parenting (this is nothing like parenting your well-attached children, and can be incredibly draining). Read, read, read. Pray, pray, pray.

 

I don't mean to frighten or discourage you. More therapeutic adoptive parents are needed. But there are way too many disruptions happening and way too many siblings getting victimized recently.

 

Parenting traumatized kids is hard work. Unending. HARD. WORK. We need more to do it, but they need to be trained from day zero and committed to the very end.

 

I'm raising (maybe 'managing' is a better word) two traumatized children and have fostered many more.

I can point you to resources if you're interested.

mommama

[mommama]

it's not only dangerous to adopt older children. I fear for my bio dd's safety when both girls are older. I have for years, and my a-dd is 7. She's already tried to spook a horse while dd10 was riding it, and when I got angry and asked why, her response was, "I wanted to see dd10 get hurt." My sons worry my a-dd will harm bio dd or their parents when they get older. It's something that NEVER leaves our minds.

 

AMEN!! Sister, my prayers are with you. I. know. what. you're. going. through. Youth is not protective. In fact the damage done during the first years is the MOST DAMAGING. I have two with RAD, both came home at age TWO YEARS. Both went through hell for the first two years of their lives. The result....violence toward animals, and younger children, and us, homicidal thoughts, hiding makeshift weapons, rages, lying (scary lying. makeyoufeellikeyoumightbecrazy-lying), willful destruction of property, smearing feces, vomiting in anger, telling perfect strangers 'i love you', telling me 'i hate you', etc etc, etc

 

This is no joke y'all. Please ask yourself if you're willing to change your entire life--live as though you're in a residential treatment center 24-7, plan to pay for inpatient treatment instead of college, ask yourself if you'd do it even if all of your dreams about adoption fell apart. Would you stick with it if any of the above were happening with your child? If you can love a child who hates you, and protect the rest of your family, then proceed. Proceed with caution.

[mommama]

I believe that all children need homes and families. I just don't believe in sacrificing what I already have any more. Call me jaded.

 

Unfortunately, (and this is what no one involved with adoption wants to really admit) there are children who simply are too damaged to ever live in a family. They do not need a family--they can't handle it. They need a highly structured, therapeutic setting that no functional family should have to provide. They need fresh staff every 8-12 hours who can handle all that these kids dish out and remain in a therapeutic mindset, they need more therapy than most families can afford to pay for, they need protection from themselves...

[Jennifer in MI]

Aaaaawww, thanks Sweetie. Most days I'm numb to it all and just accept this as our new way of life. Sometimes, though, it's just not possible.

 

Denise - :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: My parents also take in children as respite care for their families. Many of whom have RAD. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

FaithManor - We're in MI. I wonder if you know my parents! They've taken in over 100 foster kids.

 

Anyway, I don't have a personal story, but my sister is a nanny for a family who wanted to adopt. They took in a sibling set of three sisters. The oldest had RAD. She threatened to kill the family. They had to lock her into her room at night. She ruined many of their possessions, hurt their animals (killed one of them). My sister witnessed her trying to kill her little sister while she was there. It was horrible. This family made the heartbreaking decision to adopt only the younger two.

 

Please listen to what everyone here is saying. I've seen how RAD can affect a family.

[Sahamamama]

I haven't read any of the other responses (my twins are running around wet & naked after a bath! :001_huh:), but your thread caught my eye. Before I had children, I was a foster/adoption social worker, and I've also spent time in Africa. I think I sort of understand your heart for this young man, Joseph.

 

A few thoughts I had while reading your thread:

 

1. Go to the WTM members list and contact (pm) Elmeryl (Elm in NJ), here's her link:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/member.php?u=583

 

She is Sierra Leonean, and thinks she is probably the only S.L. homeschooler in the world, LOL! But she can tell you much more about her homeland and might even help you learn what to say (and not say) to Joseph when you Skype him.

 

2. Ask Joseph what he wants. I realize he is 10 years old, and in the US we wouldn't normally think that a 10 year old knows anything about anything, but African kids are different. Yes, I said it. It's true, though, they really ARE different, because if you're an orphan in Africa, raised by a grandma, turned over to an orphanage -- well, you tell me that doesn't affect a kid. I've worked with these kids (and more in Belize, Mexico, & the US). They are usually quite mature, perhaps adultified, and they may have definite ideas about what they're after. They are also sometimes MASTERS at manipulation, so keep your heart guarded (yes, guarded). But ask him.

 

3. Of course, pray. God will lead you in this decision, but keep your eyes and ears open, as well as your hearts.

 

4. Finally, if it were ME, I would seriously consider doing as much as I possibly could for Joseph WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF HIS OWN CULTURE AND SETTING. In other words, provide opportunities for him at the orphanage, help him to get through school, have clothing, medical care, good food. But perhaps leave it at that. I've seen how difficult it can be for even the most "balanced" children to make the HUGE adjustment from an overseas orphanage to a USA family home. It's an adjustment that some children NEVER make, despite their adoptive family's best efforts, prayers, and intentions.

 

Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that those OTHER families just got "bad packages" or must have done something wrong. The kids in the overseas setting are fine, just fine. The adoptive families are so sweet and loving. The combination of culture shock, family bonding, language learning, and so many other variables seems to send some children off the deep end. I hesitate to say this so publicly, because we all like to hear adoption stories with happily-ever-after endings, but it's just not always so. HTH.

[Sahamamama]

He has his grandmother there, even if she can't care for him, and quite possibly other family members who are also unable to take him in. They're still family, y'know? You can always try to sponsor him for a visa if he decides as an adult that he wants to leave his country for America.

 

Actually, I was also going to add (but thought maybe not?) that if it were ME, then I would be careful about how much of my OWN personal information I shared with him and/or the agency. Even if you don't adopt him, you might open your front door someday, oh ten years from now, and find him there. :001_huh:

[katilac]

Actually, I was also going to add (but thought maybe not?) that if it were ME, then I would be careful about how much of my OWN personal information I shared with him and/or the agency. Even if you don't adopt him, you might open your front door someday, oh ten years from now, and find him there. :001_huh:

 

There are letters back and forth, so I'm assuming he has their address and basic personal info already. The agency has to, even if he does not.

[Mimm]

Just to add to all the doom and gloom in the thread... I strongly disagree with adopting any child if you have biological children in the house. Maybe if you have older teens and plan to adopt a baby. But your biological children don't deserve to sacrifice their childhoods to the saving of hurt children. My parents adopted a bunch of really messed up kids. I was the oldest, I got out soon, and got off easy. But I have brothers and sisters who have had their family implode around them because of the kids my parents thought they could help.

[Tap]

As an adoptive parent of a child younger than my bios, there is absolutely no way I would consider bringing in a child that much older than my bios into my home.

 

Our adoptive dd3 is walking chaos. Sometimes she is lovely and a beautiful picture of childhood, others she is mean, horrible and and destructive. We caller her C1 and C2. It is honestly like there are two children inside of her. We never know day to day, which one we are going to see. Some days, just thinking about one more week with her is so overwhelming that I can't imagine going on. It makes me so sad for my bio kids that we are putting them through all of this and I dread the day when they are adults and recant memories of their childhood. Other days I see a bit of progress, and I hope all that I do for her will pay off in the long run. But, her small successes are coming at a huge price to our original family unit.

 

Ds16 is an easy going kid but dd11 was always a handful. She is the classic "Spritied child". But even with our experience with dd11, dd3 is 10x harder on all fronts.

 

She came to use at 5mo and is almost 4yo. She has been in therapy 2x a week, almost continually since she was 2yo. She has an OT to deal with sensory issues and a behavior therapist to help me deal with that part. She also just started seeing a psychiatrist once a month.

 

Right now, dd3 is laying on the floor playing a game, being a dream. It I wanted to paint you a pretty picture of her, I could do so without lying. BUT>>>>This morning while I was driving the older kids to school, she was kicking and screaming at the top of her lungs for 30minutes. Kicking the seat in front of her, taking off her shoe and throwing it at me while I was driving down the road. I had to drive with one hand reaching back, restraining her feet, because she was trying to take off her car seat straps so she could reach with her foot to kick me. At 3yo she is 45lbs and wears a size 6x clothes/12 shoe. OH yeah, the reason she was brought to fury....It was because she forgot to bring the few drips of her smoothie with her in the car (she already had 1 1/2 cups).

 

Then I settled her down and dropped her off at pre-school/daycare. They have had her since 5mo and know her issues/behaviors. Once there, she threw a chair at a teacher, wouldn't cooperate for circle time, hit/kicked/scratched, refused to lay down for nap-yelling and sticking her tongue out at her and doing the opposite of any directions. She then got removed to the office and while there she just laughed at the director while she was being reprimanded and as the called me. They needed me to come pick her up at 11:45. She was in full blown behavior for about 3 of the 5 hours she was awake this morning.

 

 

 

If I was dealing with her as a 10yo and trying to protect my little kids...no way! As a strong adult it is all I can do to protect my self from her fury some days...I can't imagine young children trying to.

 

 

This is all from a child who was not abused nor had she grown up in a war torn country. She was taken at birth and placed with my mother (dd3 is my great-niece) until we could cross state lines with her at 5mo. We have a loving and kind home for her and she has grown up with us. It is just the internal damage that was passed to her genetically or due to her bio-moms drug use.

 

 

This is not an uncommon day. This is several times a week or a daily event. She has huge daily tantrums without exception, but the ones that last for hours are currently 3-5 days a week.

 

Her therapists don't feel that she will ever graduate out of therapy. Her needs and types of therapists will change, but they will be ever present. :/

[Laurie4b]

Unfortunately, (and this is what no one involved with adoption wants to really admit) there are children who simply are too damaged to ever live in a family. They do not need a family--they can't handle it. They need a highly structured, therapeutic setting that no functional family should have to provide. They need fresh staff every 8-12 hours who can handle all that these kids dish out and remain in a therapeutic mindset, they need more therapy than most families can afford to pay for, they need protection from themselves...

 

 

I so agree with this, except I would add that in a good group care environment, the intimacy that is so threatening to a child with RAD isn't present; therefore I think 1) it's a better environment for the child because it is not so scary and 2) the child does not have the trigger to act out so horrendously. We really need to change the attitude that every kid needs a "forever family" ; ie a nuclear family. All children need a caring environment and children with severe RAD do, too. But they also need emotional space that is not possible in a family. We need to get rid of the "forever family" mindset and instead develop our diagnostic acumen in determining which children need ta "forever group environment (until adulthood and functioning as extended family) and which can benefit from a nuclear family. We need to, as a society, provide that group care. (Adoption places the costs of caring for these children squarely on the shoulders of one private family. ) If there is a mistake and a child with RAD is placed in a family, there should be a no-guilt option of saying, "This is not working" within the first couple years. The family can continue to be "extended family" for the child, but not the nuclear family. Just my out-of-mainstream opinion.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Laurie4b

[abbie5]

I find it somewhat humorous that when the news story broke about the mom sending her adopted Russian child back on a plane, the general consenses here was that she was basically a wretched person for doing so. Yet, this thread is filled with people talking about sending the child to full time group care. I see little difference! :confused: I actually can understand why an adoptive family might choose that option, but also can understand why the single mother would send her child back to his country. It can be very difficult to manage an older child, so I can see the natural tendency being to send them away.

 

Anyway... we adopted an older child than our bio children, and yes it's been difficult but not beyond what we have been able to bare. He was 6 when he came home with us (from another country), and I'm sure there was alcohol involved in the prengnancy, thus making learning a little more difficult. But we are Christians, and believe the verse that states God will not tempt you beyond what you are able to bear... that goes for adopted children, brain damaged children, etc. 1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to us all. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. He will always provide a way out. In our most difficult times with our adopted child, we always remind ourselves of this verse. In both us handling the situation, and the adopted child handling whatever it is that he's dealing with. God's Word is truth! What a relief.

 

Is adopting an older child risky? Yes. Is it hard work? Yes. Like anything else in life that has value. Our bio children have not suffered because of our decision to adopt their brother. They have grown richer from the experience. We could have taken the easier road, but we would have missed out on the blessings that come through trying circumstances. You really have to seek the Lord on what He desires for *your* family. If you are His, He will work all things to the good. I could never tell another family if they should or should not adopt an older child. I can only tell them of our own experience. Our adopted son is now a teenager and doing very well. He is a believer, and a hard worker, and we have very bright hopes for his future. And it's all by God's grace.

Edited October 5, 2010 by abbie5

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yet, this thread is filled with people talking about sending the child to full time group care. I see little difference! :confused: I actually can understand why an adoptive family might choose that option, but also can understand why the single mother would send her child back to his country. It can be very difficult to manage an older child, so I can see the natural tendency being to send them away.

 

Therapeutic group homes are not an option for someone wanting to just send their child away because they are tired of the hard work of parenting. It is a heart-wrenching decision usually made after years of less extreme therapy leads the psychiatrist to recommend this as a last resort.

 

Anyway... we adopted an older child than our bio children, and yes it's been difficult but not beyond what we have been able to bare. He was 6 when he came home with us (from another country), and I'm sure there was alcohol involved in the prengnancy, thus making learning a little more difficult. But we are Christians, and believe the verse that states God will not tempt you beyond what you are able to bear... that goes for adopted children, brain damaged children, etc. 1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to us all. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. He will always provide a way out. In our most difficult times with our adopted child, we always remind ourselves of this verse. In both us handling the situation, and the adopted child handling whatever it is that he's dealing with. God's Word is truth! What a relief.

 

Is adopting an older child risky? Yes. Is it hard work? Yes. Like anything else in life that has value. Our bio children have not suffered because of our decision to adopt their brother. They have grown richer from the experience. We could have taken the easier road, but we would have missed out on the blessings that come through trying circumstances. You really have to seek the Lord on what He desires for *your* family. If you are His, He will work all things to the good. I could never tell another family if they should or should not adopt an older child. I can only tell them of our own experience. Our adopted son is now a teenager and doing very well. He is a believer, and a hard worker, and we have very bright hopes for his future. And it's all by God's grace.

 

The bold in the quoted portion is my response.

 

You've obviously not adopted a child with RAD, a real disorder that is much more than having been exposed to alcohol as a fetus.

 

Hopefully the OP will be able to find out if this boy has RAD or if he will turn out to be a delightful addition to their family as your son has been.

[abbie5]

The bold in the quoted portion is my response.

 

You've obviously not adopted a child with RAD, a real disorder that is much more than having been exposed to alcohol as a fetus.

 

Hopefully the OP will be able to find out if this boy has RAD or if he will turn out to be a delightful addition to their family as your son has been.

 

The woman who sent her son back to Russia was also dealing with a child with RAD. I was simply commenting that I see little difference in her actions and those taken by others in sending a child to a group home. Was the harsh judgment (by people here on this board) against her only because she didn't endure the child for multiple years first??

 

I have no judgement for parents who decide to send their children away. But I also hold no judgement for the single mom who sent her child back. That's all I was saying.

Edited October 5, 2010 by abbie5