Do I have the only middle schooler still in a booster seat?

[plansrme]

I would like to predict that within my lifetime all people will be required to be in a 5 point harness in the US.:D

 

I am sorry to say that I am halfway serious.

 

:lol::lol:

 

And the driver is going to have to drive facing backwards, with her legs all curled up around what used to be the headrest.

 

I think it is interesting that we are all happy to support government regulation that requires parents to put ever-larger and older children in car seats, without substantial evidence that lap/shoulder belts are less effective in preventing serious injuries in kids over about 4.

 

The car seat industry is definitely getting its money's worth from its lobbyists.

 

Terri

[lisamarie]

There is no conclusive evidence that harnessing after 4yrs and 40lbs is any safeR than a *properly* (no slouching, moving, reaching, lap belt across lap, shoulder belt centered on shoulder-at all times) used booster. Most children are age 6 before this can happen 100% of the time.

 

 

And this is why my kids were the ONLY kids we knew still in 5pt harnesses, let alone a carseat of any sort, after they turned 4 and before the law changed in MI. My DS didn't get a booster seat until he maxed out the height of our Nautilus when he was almost 6. My DD is still in the nautilus at 5 and has asked to be in a booster, but on the occasions when she drives in my DH's car with just a booster, she has proven that she is not safe to use that as her primary car seat.

 

Car seats range in price from $50 to over $300-most fall in the $150 price range however.

 

Boosters can also be cheap or very expensive.

 

 

I think the problem comes in when you have a lot of children and can no longer fit all those seats in and have your kids in the right kind of seatbelt (shoulder belt). It doesn't matter what sort of seats we buy, there is no way I could fit 3 carseats in my 3rd row. I have tried and I have seats that are considered slim seats.

[AndyJoy]

 

And the driver is going to have to drive facing backwards, with her legs all curled up around what used to be the headrest.

 

I think it is interesting that we are all happy to support government regulation that requires parents to put ever-larger and older children in car seats, without substantial evidence that lap/shoulder belts are less effective in preventing serious injuries in kids over about 4.

 

The car seat industry is definitely getting its money's worth from its lobbyists.

 

Terri

 

I think there are two different issues here. I saw a lot of people describing what they do with their own children. I didn't see people necessarily supporting laws or regulations that mandate these actions. I know plenty of people IRL (such as my dh) who use car seats for older children but don't believe the government should be involved in this decision.

Edited September 27, 2010 by AndyJoy

[patchfire]

Dd will be in a booster seat until at least age 12... she's managed to hit 55 lbs now, at 4'6" (10 yo). We'll probably have to get a backless booster within the year for her height, but as of right now, the seat belt simply doesn't fall in the correct place on her without a booster seat.

 

But then, yes, I'm one of *those* people - my 5.5 yo is still in a 5pt harness, and my 22 month old is still rear-facing.

[DianeW88]

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/SeatBeltSolution.pdf

 

And in a nutshell, this article explains why.

 

Terri

 

Amen. And, thank you for your voice of reason. I also think all the car seats for older kids are hype by the manufacturers designed to frighten parents and sell more (and more expensive) car seats.

 

The last car accident we were involved in was because an 18 year old girl made a left turn across my lane of traffic. We couldn't avoid plowing into her....at 45 mph....no brakes. Everyone was fine, because we were wearing our seat belts. Even my 7 year old son. When the paramedics arrived to check us out, I asked about my youngest. He just laughed and said, "Oh, they're like rag dolls when they're young. As long as they have their seat belts on, they're ok. I see more injuries from being in car seats." He was right. I had whiplash, my 16 yo son had bruises from the belt. My 7 yo son was 100% fine. And, I realize that's anecdoctal from one crash, but the statistics hold true across the board if you research them. What's next....wrapping our kids in bubble wrap???

 

Adding....I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think the so-called children's "safety" industry has gotten waaaaaay out of control in this country and that they are scaring parents half out of their minds with twisted statistics and ridiculous laws that only serve to line the pockets of all the safety product manufacturers. We've created a climate of fear in this country regarding children that isn't healthy for them or us. It drives me bonkers.

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

[kitten18]

My children are tiny (I'm barely 5'0"), I'm quite certain they will both be in boosters until they are 11 or 12.

[Wheres Toto]

I have been doing a ton of reading on this because my 3 year old is outgrowing her current seat (mostly for height but she's heavy too). I have never been so confused in my life.

 

The main information I found advocating extended 5 point harnassing quoted the owner/founder of Britax - one of the most commonly recommended manufacturers of higher limit seats - which seemed a little biased to me.

 

I also found that many LATCH systems are not rated for over 40 pounds so the seats will need to use the seatbelt system at that point. Many of the booster seat accidents I see about online the cause was actually seat belt failure, not booster seat failure. So that would continue to be a problem. Others the cause of injury was abdominal injury indicating the lap belt was not positioned properly. I truly feel for these parents but don't know that the anecdotes are really indicative of the overall safety of boosters.

 

Also, in both Consumer Reports and the IIHS many high backed booster seats were rated higher for safety than the extended harness convertible boosters.

 

The official recommendations I saw were to use the seat that could be installed correctly and used correctly every single time - whether that was a 5-point harness or a booster (obviously working within height/weight guidelines).

 

In all my searching, I never saw the article posted by plansrme until I saw it here. So, that adds another dimension to the quandry.

 

I'm pretty sure my oldest was out of a booster before kindergarten. Before that it was a low-back shield booster of a type that isn't even made anymore since they are considered more dangerous than a lap/shoulder belt. I was in a head-on collision involving both cars going 25mph, where I was in a Civic and the other car was an old (still made of metal) sedan. I had three kids in the car - my dd was 8, a 10 year old friend, a 7 year old friend who was very petite. All in only seatbelts, all were uninjured. Yes, just one incident but that is all I seem to see on this issue - isolated incidences one way or the other.

 

To add further, my son rode the bus to Early Intervention when he was 3. No shoulder belts at all, only lap belts. Why is this considered okay? We had to buy a special cover for the buckle release so he wouldn't undo it.

 

:confused::confused::confused:

[Mom2J112903]

I think the problem comes in when you have a lot of children and can no longer fit all those seats in and have your kids in the right kind of seatbelt (shoulder belt). It doesn't matter what sort of seats we buy, there is no way I could fit 3 carseats in my 3rd row. I have tried and I have seats that are considered slim seats.

 

Honestly, I have seen very few cars that have not been able to get a 3-across. With the Sunshine Kids Radians, Combi Coccoro, Evenflo Maestro, Graco Turbo Booster and Safety First Complete Air, there is a combination out there that will work in almost any situation.

[brehon]

Honestly, I have seen very few cars that have not been able to get a 3-across. With the Sunshine Kids Radians, Combi Coccoro, Evenflo Maestro, Graco Turbo Booster and Safety First Complete Air, there is a combination out there that will work in almost any situation.

 

I have 5 kiddos (including a newborn) and in my Honda Odyssey I cannot fit 3 big kids' car seats across the rear seat. My eldest is in a regular booster and my 2nd oldest is in a high backed booster. Neither of the younger 2 kids 5-pt seats will fit in the back w/the 2 boosters. The infant's RF is the only car seat that fits back there. We've tried every permutation.

 

I'm probably one of the few on the boards who has taken a dead kid out of a car seat. Poor thing should have survived, but the car seat wasn't installed correctly. I think that is the main issue w/car seats. Statistics in TX show that most kids' car seats are improperly installed.

[cathmom]

I think there are two different issues here. I saw a lot of people describing what they do with their own children. I didn't see people necessarily supporting laws or regulations that mandate these actions. I know plenty of people IRL (such as my dh) who use car seats for older children but don't believe the government should be involved in this decision.

 

But the situation is that government regulations keep going up. I have a 20 year old. When he was born, I don't think there were car seat laws on the books! Now in my state it's 8 years, 80 lbs. That's a big change in a short amount of time, all directly benefitting car seat manufacturers.

[Mom2J112903]

But the situation is that government regulations keep going up. I have a 20 year old. When he was born, I don't think there were car seat laws on the books! Now in my state it's 8 years, 80 lbs. That's a big change in a short amount of time, all directly benefitting car seat manufacturers.

 

 

No it is benefiting children. When the *adult* seatbelt does not fit a child correctly the child suffers spinal and internal injuries-sometimes the child does not survive. Take a twinkie and bend it in half, watch what happens. This is what happens to a child's internal organs when the lap belt is too high on the abdomen or the shoulder belt is not centered on the shoulder. The spine can be severed, the internal organs damaged beyond repair. We know better, we do better.

 

In many European countries the law is *12* years of age before they can be out of a booster. All because they realize that this is the age when children most often fit *properly* into an adult seat belt alone.

[Nakia]

No it is benefiting children. When the *adult* seatbelt does not fit a child correctly the child suffers spinal and internal injuries-sometimes the child does not survive. Take a twinkie and bend it in half, watch what happens. This is what happens to a child's internal organs when the lap belt is too high on the abdomen or the shoulder belt is not centered on the shoulder. The spine can be severed, the internal organs damaged beyond repair. We know better, we do better.

 

 

 

You are exactly right. It's not just death that can happen if a child isn't properly restrained. I don't see a conspiracy theory going on. I see it as increased knowledge leading to better decisions.

[~Tara~]

My 9 and 11 yr olds are both still in belt positioning boosters. Each weighing around 55# ?? My eldest was in one until around 11, maybe almost 12. I have short/small kids :p They stay in the booster until they can pass the 5 step test: http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

And they do not enter a belt positioning booster before age 6, staying in a 5pt harness up to that point.

[Mom2J112903]

My 9 and 11 yr olds are both still in belt positioning boosters. Each weighing around 55# ?? My eldest was in one until around 11, maybe almost 12. I have short/small kids :p They stay in the booster until they can pass the 5 step test: http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

And they do not enter a belt positioning booster before age 6, staying in a 5pt harness up to that point.

 

 

Sounds like me, but J has a super long torso which ment at not-quite age 7, he has practically outgrown the Britax Frontier85 which has 20" top harness positions. So he was placed full time in a booster at age 5.11yrs and had been booster training since age 5.3yrs when he was outgrowing the Graco Nautilus. Yes J has grown from a 15" torso at 3.6yrs to an almost 20" torso at almost 7 years of age. He has also went from 40" at 5yrs of age to 47" the other day and he turns 7 on the 29th of November.

 

Thank you for posting that link, I did not have it bookmarked on my lap-top, I do now. :)

[ColoradoMom]

But the situation is that government regulations keep going up. I have a 20 year old. When he was born, I don't think there were car seat laws on the books! Now in my state it's 8 years, 80 lbs. That's a big change in a short amount of time, all directly benefitting car seat manufacturers.

 

 

Yeah, I kind of take this attitude. My kids are all older - and actually my son was 80 lbs long before he was "allowed" to be in just a seat belt - I put him in one anyway. He's a HUGE kid at almost 6 ft now that he is 13. Common sense beats government regulations any day.

 

Although if I had a really little child, much smaller than I did - I would naturally want that child to be a safe as possible and would use the boosters. I don't need to government to tell me that - but I guess making the laws for those with no common sense is better than actually asking people to use their brains. :glare:

[Gratia271]

Amen. And, thank you for your voice of reason. I also think all the car seats for older kids are hype by the manufacturers designed to frighten parents and sell more (and more expensive) car seats.

 

The last car accident we were involved in was because an 18 year old girl made a left turn across my lane of traffic. We couldn't avoid plowing into her....at 45 mph....no brakes. Everyone was fine, because we were wearing our seat belts. Even my 7 year old son. When the paramedics arrived to check us out, I asked about my youngest. He just laughed and said, "Oh, they're like rag dolls when they're young. As long as they have their seat belts on, they're ok. I see more injuries from being in car seats." He was right. I had whiplash, my 16 yo son had bruises from the belt. My 7 yo son was 100% fine. And, I realize that's anecdoctal from one crash, but the statistics hold true across the board if you research them. What's next....wrapping our kids in bubble wrap???

 

Adding....I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think the so-called children's "safety" industry has gotten waaaaaay out of control in this country and that they are scaring parents half out of their minds with twisted statistics and ridiculous laws that only serve to line the pockets of all the safety product manufacturers. We've created a climate of fear in this country regarding children that isn't healthy for them or us. It drives me bonkers.

 

Diane W.

married for 22 years

homeschooling 3 kiddos for 16 years

 

This.

[ScoutTN]

nevermind.

Edited September 28, 2010 by ScoutTN

[Nakia]

This info is not correct. It is too broad of a generalization. There are a number of excellent seats which function with a 5pt harness and then convert to a high backed booster. Graco Nautilus and Britax Frontier for two examples. These seats are designed specifically for use with children over 40 lbs with a 5pt. harness.

See http://www.car-seat.org for thorough, up to date, non-commercial safety information on all kinds of car seats.

 

The switch to a booster seat can be made safely when the child is at least 40 lbs AND the seat belt fits properly. For many smaller children, the seat belt may not fit well and so is not the best choice for safety.

 

We have a petite child who will be in a 5 pt harness until the seat belt fits correctly. Which will be years for sure. Safety first. Coolness a long way second.

 

See page 2 of this thread. We got it all cleared up. Thanks!

[cathmom]

Yeah, I kind of take this attitude. My kids are all older - and actually my son was 80 lbs long before he was "allowed" to be in just a seat belt - I put him in one anyway. He's a HUGE kid at almost 6 ft now that he is 13. Common sense beats government regulations any day.

 

Although if I had a really little child, much smaller than I did - I would naturally want that child to be a safe as possible and would use the boosters. I don't need to government to tell me that - but I guess making the laws for those with no common sense is better than actually asking people to use their brains. :glare:

 

Exactly. And even though I don't think there was a law, he was in a car seat from birth until just before his fifth birthday, when we were in a minor car accident. The cop saw his booster seat and said, "You know he doesn't need to be in one of those anymore, right?" :lol: Imagine that happening now.

 

We do what we can do.

[Mom2J112903]

For those of you saying 3-across is not possible, the following link is pages of successful 3-acrosses in a variety of vehicles.

 

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=33226&highlight=successful

 

Sorry, can't remeber your name, but he is a page of only Odessey's 3-across :)

 

http://www.car-seat.org/search.php?searchid=2868372

 

Boosters saves lives, why not use them? Would your child rather be pushed in a wheelchair the rest of his/her life or use a booster until the seatbelt fits properly? There is a story about an 8yr old girl whom is paralyzed now after an accident-she wasn't in a booster and her spinal cord was severed. She wishes her Mom would have insisted on a booster.

[Laura Corin]

Hobbes probably will be - he's pretty small and he won't be out of that booster until he can sit properly on the seat/in the belt.

 

Laura

[Wheres Toto]

For those of you saying 3-across is not possible, the following link is pages of successful 3-acrosses in a variety of vehicles.

 

 

Some of these are pretty creative but I wonder what will happen in a side impact. Most of the ones listed are vans or SUV's. Our primary car is a Chevy Suburban and I think you'd probably be able to fit 3 of just about anything in that tank. I've had 2 adults, 2 adult size teenagers and 4 car seats (1 rear facing) in that thing and everyone had a little wiggle room - we could actually reach/see the seat belt buckles (of course the third row was in).

 

A small car takes a lot more work and I don't know how you would be able to get your hands on different seat combinations to keep trying. I have a Honda Civic that we can not use for our whole family - we'd need to fit a booster, a car seat and an adult-sized 16 year old in the back seat. Not going to happen so we use our Suburban if we are all together. There were a few Civic's on the link but it looked like all of them had at least one seat rear-facing or one booster, which is easier. I don't think there are any three forward facing car seats (not boosters) that would fit across the back seat. I think this could be a situation where someone would need to move at least one kid to a booster once they fit the guidelines.

Edited September 28, 2010 by dottieanna29

[Lolly]

For those of you saying 3-across is not possible, the following link is pages of successful 3-acrosses in a variety of vehicles.

 

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=33226&highlight=successful

 

Sorry, can't remeber your name, but he is a page of only Odessey's 3-across :)

 

http://www.car-seat.org/search.php?searchid=2868372

 

Boosters saves lives, why not use them? Would your child rather be pushed in a wheelchair the rest of his/her life or use a booster until the seatbelt fits properly? There is a story about an 8yr old girl whom is paralyzed now after an accident-she wasn't in a booster and her spinal cord was severed. She wishes her Mom would have insisted on a booster.

 

It isn't necessarily that it is impossible. It is that it is impossible without purchasing a new car. That is just an expense that doesn't necessarily match with the risk involved. That same 8 yo girl may have been killed if in a booster with a 5 pt harness because it wasn't properly installed (most are not). Honestly, with accidents there just isn't anyway to know.

[cathmom]

I can just barely fit 3 across in the back of my van, and the only reason I can is because I was given incredibly skinny car seats, and even then it is hard to buckle and unbuckle them. I am sure what we do would not fit some people's standards, but we comply with the law and have done the best we could. Unless someone wants to buy us a new car and new car seats to fit in it, this is as good as it gets.

[Jilly6]

my middle schooler is 12, 5'10 and 195 lbs

[vonfirmath]

Exactly. And even though I don't think there was a law, he was in a car seat from birth until just before his fifth birthday, when we were in a minor car accident. The cop saw his booster seat and said, "You know he doesn't need to be in one of those anymore, right?" :lol: Imagine that happening now.

 

Actually, you get cops all over still not knowing what is safest for kids in car seats. They are people, just like you and me. With the same prejudices, thinking car seats are just to enrich the manufacturers, etc.

 

Over at the car seat board mentioned otherwise, there are many horror stories of the things cops have said are safe that are just NOT.

[TravelingChris]

Well as someone pointed out, the research does not support the greater safety of the booster seats.

[DarlaS]

Well as someone pointed out, the research does not support the greater safety of the booster seats.

 

:iagree:

 

I think the key thing is to pay attention to how smaller younger kids are buckling up. My tall for his age almost 7 yo definitely knows to put the lap portion of the belt across his hips--and why. He has a belt positioning seat which puts the lap belt under a protruding thingy (so it has to be across the hips), but if I don't double check, the belt can definitely be put over top of that positioning it right over his stomach. He knows how to buckle it, but I double check anyway.

 

The belt should also not be twisted. It's a pain, but we do have to keep checking and reminding. I'd go nutso on my kids if they put the shoulder belt behind them. They don't even try.

 

We also have shoulder belts in ALL positions and can adjust them vertically.

[ColoradoMom]

my middle schooler is 12, 5'10 and 195 lbs

 

 

LOL...me too - only he's 13 and pushing 6 feet now!

[brehon]

For those of you saying 3-across is not possible, the following link is pages of successful 3-acrosses in a variety of vehicles.

 

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=33226&highlight=successful

 

Sorry, can't remeber your name, but he is a page of only Odessey's 3-across :)

 

http://www.car-seat.org/search.php?searchid=2868372

 

Boosters saves lives, why not use them? Would your child rather be pushed in a wheelchair the rest of his/her life or use a booster until the seatbelt fits properly? There is a story about an 8yr old girl whom is paralyzed now after an accident-she wasn't in a booster and her spinal cord was severed. She wishes her Mom would have insisted on a booster.

 

Sorry, I just saw this. I can't read the link as it says something about wrong search terms. However, if the link's information deals with buying either a new car or new car seats, well, that simply isn't happening here. I am the sole provider for my family of 7 and I do so on a county gov't's paycheck. I cannot justify either expense. I do use boosters. All my kids are currently in various permutations of car seats.

 

<Please know this isn't said in a snarky or hostile tone of voice> I work in public safety and can guarantee that I've seen and dealt with more death and mayham than many here. As I said earlier I've run the calls involving dead kids. You're right, of course, appropriately sized and correctly installed car seats can save and do lives. Sometimes, however, finances dictate that the best (i.e., most expensive) car seat cannot be bought. The key is to appropriately size and correctly install the car seat. [Forgive me, I probably sound like a broken record on that point] The second important point is that there are MVCs that are simply not survivable no matter how many safety devices are used.

[Ravin]

One of the reservations with the extended 5 pt harness seats is that the LATCH system wasn't designed for weights over 40 lbs. If you're using a 5 pt for a bigger child, it may be advisable to use the seatbelt to secure the seat.

 

DD is in a booster, I switched not long before she'd have outgrown the shoulder straps on the 5 pt. harness in her seat(same one she uses now as a booster), height-wise. She's tall enough now and complains enough about the seat she's in that I'm considering switching her to a backless booster, though she's only 40 lbs. She'll be 7 next week and I think it's going to be a bday gift. It'll also make it easier for her to buckle herself (she has trouble pulling the belt through the shoulder-adjusting hole on her seat), which will help when the baby comes so that I only have 1 child to buckle in constantly.

 

I'd get her a "big kid" booster with a back, but honestly cost is a factor for us. $50 is a LOT of money in my budget.