How does the Harry Potter Series Rate as Excellent Literature...

[Blueridge]

I don't want a debate, pretty please. I've heard the opinions and criticisms from both sides for years. Our family has never read them, but now I have a legitimate reason for considering this question. So, to those of you have read at least one of the HP books, how do they measure up (writing technique...) when compared to really excellent literature (like C.S. Lewis, Tolkien, etc.)? I would appreciate your insights so very much!

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't want a debate, pretty please. I've heard the opinions and criticisms from both sides for years. Our family has never read them, but now I have a legitimate reason for considering this question. So, to those of you have read at least one of the HP books, how do they measure up (writing technique...) when compared to really excellent literature (like C.S. Lewis, Tolkien, etc.)? I would appreciate your insights so very much!

 

I think Rowling is a storyteller more than a writer. She nowhere close to Tolkien's level in storytelling, myth-making or techincal writing. I think she's a better writer and storyteller than C.S. Lewis. I think she's a better storyteller than Phillip Pullman, but he's a better writer.

 

Does that help?

[Blueridge]

Yes, it helps tremendously! Thank you~

[LauraGB]

I think Rowling is a storyteller more than a writer.

 

:iagree: And a masterful one at that.

 

Honestly, I suggest you do read it and determine the answer for yourself so you are no longer going on second hand info. You might be pleasantly surprised at how engaging they are :).

Edited September 14, 2010 by LauraGB
My original wording sounded terribly rude and I certainly didn't mean it to - I'm a nice lady! Really!

[Slartibartfast]

I think Rowling is a storyteller more than a writer. She nowhere close to Tolkien's level in storytelling, myth-making or techincal writing. I think she's a better writer and storyteller than C.S. Lewis. I think she's a better storyteller than Phillip Pullman, but he's a better writer.

 

Does that help?

 

:iagree:

 

This sounds accurate to me.

 

 

 

I don't really care for Pullman. Bleh.

[Veritaserum]

I think they are on par with other fantasy like Lewis and Tolkein. The series as a whole is excellent. It is an epic battle between good and evil. The last books are particularly moving as you encounter heroism, loyalty, and self-sacrifice. What will win in the end: love/self-sacrifice or hate/selfishness?

 

Dumbledore ranks up there with Gandalf for me. :)

[Farrar]

I'm not sure how you can not get a debate with that question, but as someone immersed in children's books in various ways, I'll try to field an answer...

 

I think the writing, in many ways, is good. It's solid. I would never say the books are poorly written. However, in terms of Rowling's style, I wouldn't say they're amazing prose. As Jane Yolen famously pointed out, she relies quite heavily on the adverb and many writers feel that's a sign of weakness in descriptive writing. As many people have pointed out, a couple of the books (in particular the fourth) were in need of a little bit of editing.

 

On the other hand, the story is amazingly well-crafted. There are very few children's fantasy series that can stand up to the level of complexity of story that the books have. Rowling's world is beautifully imagined and detailed. The books increase in danger and complexity as the story goes on, making it an excellent series for reading year by year as a child grows up. There are clues to the final book embedded in the first in clever ways. In general, as a storyteller, I rank her on a par with Tolkien.

 

But I also find Tolkien's writing interminably dull. So, if you think that's an example of excellent writing, then you may want to discount my opinion. :D

[Jen in PA]

On a 10 point scale I would call these a solid 7.5. I am reading them aloud for the first time (halfway through book 5), and I think that gives me more perspective than I had only reading them to myself. The dialogue is never intricate, but the material draws on a variety of sources. Each time I am tempted to dismiss the overall product as simplistic, I end up being impressed by what is presented and how it's presented.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't really care for Pullman. Bleh.

 

I can recognize that he's a good writer, a skilled technician. But, I hated his story and most of his characters.

[Jen+4dc]

I think Rowling is a storyteller more than a writer. She nowhere close to Tolkien's level in storytelling, myth-making or techincal writing. I think she's a better writer and storyteller than C.S. Lewis. I think she's a better storyteller than Phillip Pullman, but he's a better writer.

 

Does that help?

:iagree: I agree with the bolded part. I've never read Pullman so I can't comment on that part.

 

In my mind Rowling's strength is her ability to create a real, believable world and characters that you understand and relate to. Harry et al became my friends and I cried when I finished the 7th book (not because he lived or died, I won't spoil it for you!). I cried because there's no more. Never again will I stay up till all hours engrossed in his magical world because I can't bear to put the book down. (Okay, so I have reread them, but it's not the same as the first time!!:D)

 

Another great strength of Rowling's is her ability to capture what it feels like to be a teenager, I felt like the angst the characters experienced came across as genuine and it gave me many opportunities to discuss adolescent issues with my dd in an analytical way, since neither of us were directly involved in the situations. It really helped my dd to see that good people struggle and don't always make the right choices. But, you pick yourself up and choose more wisely next time. There's good and bad in all of us, it's part of being human.

 

Anyway, I digress...Rowling is, imho, a great storyteller with a gift for drawing the reader in.

[Saille]

In terms of mastery, I'd say:

 

Tolkien

Pullman

Lewis/Rowling tie.

 

Rowling's language is modernized, but if you allow for that, I'd describe both she and Lewis as spinning a fine yarn. Tolkien is a literary master. And Pullman...well, if you have any doubts about Pullman, read his chapter in The Golden Compass on "Lyra's London". That's when I fell in love with him as an author. That said, there is a lot to be said for Rowling's wordplay. A classically educated kid, especially one learning Latin, stands to get a lot more references than the average kid, which places Rowling in the camp of a fellow traveler. That's something I'm quick to highlight, since most kids around here aren't learning what my kids learn.

[Slartibartfast]

I think what stands out about Tolkien is the language. I cannot imagine anything more beautifully written.

 

I have never read anything more inspiring, tragic, frightening or romantic than some of his work.

 

He is also skilled at knowing when to retreat, knowing when one doesn't need to say something and that is an area where some other authors fail.

[Harriet Vane]

On a 10 point scale I would call these a solid 7.5. I am reading them aloud for the first time (halfway through book 5), and I think that gives me more perspective than I had only reading them to myself. The dialogue is never intricate, but the material draws on a variety of sources. Each time I am tempted to dismiss the overall product as simplistic, I end up being impressed by what is presented and how it's presented.

 

:iagree:

I think they are really well written, far more so than a lot of other popular fiction. I would say that while the style is very different, the skill level is on par with Madeleine L'Engle's teen stuff. Rowling is masterful at pulling many threads together, and I was also impressed that her writing remained strong all the way through book seven. (So many series fall apart at book three or so.)

 

Rowling is no Tolkien--but then, I think he is absolutely unparalleled. LOTR is the finest work of fiction ever produced by western civilization, in my opinion. Despite the fact that I am a former English major with a voracious reading habit, I haven't found anyone more skillful than Tolkien.

[Mrs Mungo]

He is also skilled at knowing when to retreat, knowing when one doesn't need to say something and that is an area where some other authors fail.

 

I'm looking at you, STEPHEN KING!! SHUT UP!!!

[Slartibartfast]

I'm looking at you, STEPHEN KING!! SHUT UP!!!

:lol:

 

Or TERRY GOODKIND!! OMG STOP RAPING PEOPLE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?!?!??!

[Mrs Mungo]

:lol:

 

Or TERRY GOODKIND!! OMG STOP RAPING PEOPLE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?!?!??!

 

No kidding!!!

[Slartibartfast]

And that Pillars of the Earth guy too! sheesh!!

 

Enough with the raping!

[Mrs Mungo]

Stephen King is still the worst offender, imo. Can you imagine what Gimli would have been thinking when he asked for a hair from Galadriel's head? Something horrifically disgusting if Stephen King had been writing it.

[Imprimis]

I had never read the Harry Potter series until July of this year; I did not think it would be something that would hold my interest. I only read it because I had visited The Wizarding World in Universal Studios Islands of Adventures and was intrigued.

 

My genre of choice is historical fiction. I have never been a fantasy fan--just not my thing.

 

Well, I can tell you I was totally engrossed by the time I got to the 3rd HP book (not that I didn't enjoy the first two, but I was truly hooked by the 3rd). I could not put these books down. Lucky for me, it was summer :001_smile:

 

I was so impressed by Rowling's ability to completely immerse the reader in Harry's amazing world. I was so wrapped up in the series that it was difficult to see it come to an end. I loved the characters, their interaction, and the range of emotion they expressed.

 

I enjoyed the Harry Potter series infinitely more than The Chronicles of Narnia and, for me, at least, Rowling surpasses Lewis in both writing and storytelling.

[eclipse]

In terms of mastery, I'd say:

 

Tolkien

Pullman

Lewis/Rowling tie.

 

Rowling's language is modernized, but if you allow for that, I'd describe both she and Lewis as spinning a fine yarn. Tolkien is a literary master. And Pullman...well, if you have any doubts about Pullman, read his chapter in The Golden Compass on "Lyra's London". That's when I fell in love with him as an author. That said, there is a lot to be said for Rowling's wordplay. A classically educated kid, especially one learning Latin, stands to get a lot more references than the average kid, which places Rowling in the camp of a fellow traveler. That's something I'm quick to highlight, since most kids around here aren't learning what my kids learn.

 

 

I think I would go with this order. In fact, I'd probably put Rowling a level above Lewis in a lot of ways - they have a similar ability to create a world that you can easily immerse yourself in and characters that you care deeply about and are able to relate to, but Lewis loses points with me for beating you over the head with the Aslan = Jesus/God metaphor (while I'm not a Christian, I can appreciate a good religious allusion/metaphor, but there's something to be said for the art subtlety!). I think Pullman blows both of them out of the water (at least in the Compass series. I tried to read an older series of his and found it insufferable.) I do think Rowling it far superior (writing wise) to many other current authors targeting a similar demographic - Rick Riordan, for instance, spins a fun yarn, but the writing (plot, characterization, use of literary technique, etc) is not on the same level as Rowling.

[Heatherwith4]

I haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if I repeat. I absolutely cannot wait until my kids are old enough for me to share HP with them.

My favorite thing about the series is the way Rowling describes Harry's world. As the reader, you can really picture everything quite easily, because Rowling paints such a clear picture.

Book 7 is by far the best, IMO. I was blown away, and I was sad that it was over.

[Rosie_0801]

What's great about these books is she's written a fantasy series that doesn't read like a list of cliches.

 

Rosie

[ma23peas]

In terms of mastery, I'd say:

 

Tolkien

Pullman

Lewis/Rowling tie.

 

 

I would put Tolkien and Lewis together (basing that on all his works just not Narnia series)

Pullman is a better writer, but I think the content of both Rowling/Pullman to be on the same level. I personally have found so many other books/authors that I would prefer to introduce my children to than either of these...Rowling appeals to the sensationalistic side of things, Twilight series and such I lump into that category....

I just don't get the 'meat' from her works as I did from Lewis/Tolkien..both of which I consider to be masters of their craft...

 

Tara

[Laurie4b]

Harry Potter's plot is excellent. The character development is quite good. There is a beauty of moral goodness that gets conveyed in Rowling's books, particularly themes of self-sacrifice and loyalty as an expression of love. Her use of language is "okay."

[OrganicAnn]

Just my opinion - it is good fiction, but not literature.

[AngieW in Texas]

I would place Rowling far above Lewis. I think Tolkien is very literary, but I've never had a desire to reread his books. I've read The Hobbit and LOTR once each and I probably won't ever read them again. I've read the first 3 HP books at least 10 times, the 4th-6th at least 5 times, and the 7th at least 3 times.

 

I'd rank Harry Potter far above any of the classics that I've read.

 

Most of the classics that I've read have been awful (for example: Jane Eyre, A Separate Peace, Red Badge of Courage, Old Man and the Sea, Great Expectations, Great Gatsby, ...). I wouldn't wish most of those books on my worst enemy.

[Blueridge]

Ladies, one and all, thank you so much! You have been so helpful to me, and so respectful to one another. :)

[Kim in Appalachia]

I think Rowling is a storyteller more than a writer. She nowhere close to Tolkien's level in storytelling, myth-making or techincal writing. I think she's a better writer and storyteller than C.S. Lewis. I think she's a better storyteller than Phillip Pullman, but he's a better writer.

 

Does that help?

 

I would agree with this, except I think Lewis was a better writer. Rowling tells a great story, but she lacked the discipline that Lewis had. She needed a better editor to tighten up her work. Some of the scenes in the book just dragged on. But she is a great storyteller, and I would say her characters have more depth than Lewis's.

[Gooblink]

I'm not sure how you can not get a debate with that question, but as someone immersed in children's books in various ways, I'll try to field an answer...

 

I think the writing, in many ways, is good. It's solid. I would never say the books are poorly written. However, in terms of Rowling's style, I wouldn't say they're amazing prose. As Jane Yolen famously pointed out, she relies quite heavily on the adverb and many writers feel that's a sign of weakness in descriptive writing. As many people have pointed out, a couple of the books (in particular the fourth) were in need of a little bit of editing.

 

On the other hand, the story is amazingly well-crafted. There are very few children's fantasy series that can stand up to the level of complexity of story that the books have. Rowling's world is beautifully imagined and detailed. The books increase in danger and complexity as the story goes on, making it an excellent series for reading year by year as a child grows up. There are clues to the final book embedded in the first in clever ways. In general, as a storyteller, I rank her on a par with Tolkien.

 

:iagree: Very well said. I loved reading Harry Potter series and the story telling was strong enough to get me over any weakness in her writing.

 

But I also find Tolkien's writing interminably dull. So, if you think that's an example of excellent writing, then you may want to discount my opinion. :D

 

Now, that's going too far. :D

 

I did find some parts of The Hobbit and LOTR to be a bit dull, however, I've yet to read any story that is better than Tolkien's work, especially when it comes to packing a ton of meaning into imagery and dialogue.

[Dawn in OH]

I think Rowling is a storyteller more than a writer. She nowhere close to Tolkien's level in storytelling, myth-making or techincal writing. I think she's a better writer and storyteller than C.S. Lewis. I think she's a better storyteller than Phillip Pullman, but he's a better writer.

 

Does that help?

 

This sounds pretty accurate. I read all the books. They were good stories. She's not the BEST writer, not even close, but she did write some good stories. Personally, I DO think C.S. Lewis is a better writer though.

[Penelope]

Harry Potter is a wonderful series, much much better than most children's lit. out there, but it is not great literature.

 

Rowling tells an engaging story, but her writing cannot compare to Lewis. C.S. Lewis wrote much more than Narnia. But even Narnia is much better written than HP, IMO. I remember laughing when I read about the adverb comment, because when I was midway through the series I was becoming annoyed by the stilted writing. I think the writing did improve in the last few books.

[Laura Corin]

I think she's a better storyteller than Phillip Pullman, but he's a better writer.

 

There's a richness and multiplicity of allusion in Pullman that you don't get in Rowling, but the HP books drag you forwards better. Perhaps that's why the last HP book feels slow to me: there isn't enough plot and the writing is not rich enough to overcome that.

 

Laura

[Pippen]

Rowling tells an engaging story, but her writing cannot compare to Lewis. C.S. Lewis wrote much more than Narnia. But even Narnia is much better written than HP, IMO. .

 

I hold the opposite opinion. :) My oldest son and I read through The Hobbit, LOTR, Narnia, and HP together when he was around ages 9-12. We had to slog through the last two books of the Narnia series just to finish, which was in great contrast to the rest of our reading experience during those few years. The writing, plot, characters--there was not enough there in those later books to grab us as readers or stick with us.

 

We talked some about Narnia, but LOTR and HP were fodder for hours and hours of discussion. You can dissect writing style, storytelling ability, etc, but in the end the mark of excellent literature for me personally is the author's ability to create a story that makes the reader think and/or wish for more.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Pippen

[Sandra in FL]

HP is by far the favorite for my kids. We all especially love the audio series (by American Jim Dale - not so much the British version). We still listen to it in the car over and over again. I think Rowling is a wonderful storyteller, and I like that all my kids (6 year range) enjoyed it at the same time (it's not easy to find stuff that the youngest will understand but the oldest will be engaged/not bored).

 

My 14 dd calls LOTR "dull." My 11 yr ds and dd's friend say that LOTR is the only series in which the movies are better than the books. I have not read LOTR and so have no comment about them.

 

The Narnia series they all enjoyed too but not at the level of HP.

 

Dd is in Spanish 3 now, and she's reading HP1 in Spanish. I had gotten Ramona the Pest in Spanish also and felt that that was more her level. But because she's much more familiar with HP, she's finding that the easier read. Dd also points out a lot of root-words in HP. We've gotten a lot out of the HP series - this is not counting the hours of discussion and play-acting.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Sandra in FL

[choirfarm]

The boys and I read the series this past August. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed them and for the most part they were well written. I'm surprised no one mentioned the 6th book in the series. It was the worst one in the whole series by far!!! It had WAY too much teenage love angst and too much look back in the past to fill in the gaps. I think she needed to work on this novel a lot more. The 7th one was GREAT!!! We have used Netflix to work through the movies over the last couple of weeks and my boys are eagerly anticipating the two movies for book 7.

 

Christine

[Catherine]

The writing can't hold a candle to LOTR, IMO. But, given the choice, I'd choose HP over Tolkien any day, because I *loved* the stories, the characters, their growth through the course of the books, their development as good people who must ultimately face the evil guy.

 

I RA Chronicles of Narnia with my youngest, and while we got through it, it was honestly a bit of a slog at times. The plot did not carry us along and the characters' growth was not realistic or convincing, they did not feel like real children. I did not once think-I know someone like that. I DID, just yesterday, think, I've known people like Delores Umbridge-dictators, petty tyrants. It makes for far more compelling reading.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

:

In my mind Rowling's strength is her ability to create a real, believable world and characters that you understand and relate to. Harry et al became my friends and I cried when I finished the 7th book (not because he lived or died, I won't spoil it for you!). I cried because there's no more. Never again will I stay up till all hours engrossed in his magical world because I can't bear to put the book down. (Okay, so I have reread them, but it's not the same as the first time!!:D)

 

Another great strength of Rowling's is her ability to capture what it feels like to be a teenager, I felt like the angst the characters experienced came across as genuine and it gave me many opportunities to discuss adolescent issues with my dd in an analytical way, since neither of us were directly involved in the situations. It really helped my dd to see that good people struggle and don't always make the right choices. But, you pick yourself up and choose more wisely next time. There's good and bad in all of us, it's part of being human.

 

Anyway, I digress...Rowling is, imho, a great storyteller with a gift for drawing the reader in.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel about the HP books. And I also cried because there were no more books to anticipate.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I read a fabulous book by John Granger called Looking for God in Harry Potter recently. It makes an excellent argument as to why one might want to read them.

 

from Amazon

"Granger (no relation to fellow brainiac Hermione), a homeschooling Christian father of seven, initially resisted when a friend encouraged him to read the Harry Potter books. But Rowling's novels, sprinkled with literary allusions and strong biblical values, won the classicist over quickly, and he became an avid spokesperson for the series. This book transcends the responses of some other Christian writers (those in support, like Connie Neal, or in sloppy accusations, like Richard Abanes) to offer a serious literary and Christian appraisal of the first five books. "

[Guest TheBugsMom]

HP induced hours and hours of discussion between a 12, 16, 17, 40, and 44 yr old, where each held their own. This is the only series of books, as of today, we have all read and enjoyed and discussed with such vigor and that we bought multiple copies so we all could read together. We have not done this with LOTR or the Narnia series, so for me HP ranks higher then these.

[DarcyB]

 

I did find some parts of The Hobbit and LOTR to be a bit dull, however, I've yet to read any story that is better than Tolkien's work, especially when it comes to packing a ton of meaning into imagery and dialogue.

 

^ what she said. You just can't get much better than Tolkein for technical writing and imagery.

 

Rowling is a great storyteller with compelling characters and a great storyline that lasts much longer than most multi-series fiction titles. However, I don't consider it great literary fiction. It's great popular fiction compared to most of what is written on for this age range. I do agree that I'd equate it with L'Engle's teen fiction. However, I do think it will definitely stand out as this generation's best fiction when it comes to early 21st century children's literature.

 

I do also agree that she does a much better job at fleshing out her literary characters than Lewis did in the Chronicle series, but then you also have to look at the time that Lewis wrote compared to now, and the space alloted to be able to develop those characters. The Chronicles are just not long enough to do the characters justice. Lewis also was not a children's writer. He loved children's stories, but generally he was not a children's author, and I think that makes all the difference. (he did not have children until well after he wrote Narnia, he had a not-so-typical children's upbringing and literary past, etc.). Besides..I just can't have anyone dissin' Lewis LOLOL

 

To me....what was fabulous about the books...it's not about the power and whether you have it or not. It's about what you choose to do with the power you do have. A great, awesome lesson for children to learn as they move into adulthood.

[Mrs Mungo]

When I said that I believed Rowling to be a better storyteller and writer than Lewis, I should have specified that I was speaking *only* in reference to his children's books.

[ereks mom]

I think what stands out about Tolkien is the language. I cannot imagine anything more beautifully written.

 

I have never read anything more inspiring, tragic, frightening or romantic than some of his work.

 

He is also skilled at knowing when to retreat, knowing when one doesn't need to say something and that is an area where some other authors fail.

 

:iagree:

[ereks mom]

Now, keep in mind that I've only read the first two books so far--actually, I'm reading them aloud to EK & dh--but I have already commented to them that Rowling does not even come close to Tolkien or Lewis as far as mastery of her craft. Tolkien still stands head and shoulders above pretty much any other writer I've ever read, including Lewis, and Rowling is somewhat below Lewis. I do find the HP stories interesting, possibly approaching the level of the Chronicles of Narnia, but certainly not anywhere near the level of LOTR.

[Ester Maria]

If I were to rate the HP series on a scale up to five stars, it would maybe get two... tentacles. Of a single star, that is. :p

[NancyNellen]

I will agree with this completely!

[Kari C in SC]

I think they are on par with other fantasy like Lewis and Tolkein. The series as a whole is excellent. It is an epic battle between good and evil. The last books are particularly moving as you encounter heroism, loyalty, and self-sacrifice. What will win in the end: love/self-sacrifice or hate/selfishness?

 

Dumbledore ranks up there with Gandalf for me. :)

 

:iagree:

[Slartibartfast]

When I said that I believed Rowling to be a better storyteller and writer than Lewis, I should have specified that I was speaking *only* in reference to his children's books.

 

I don't think Lewis' other work like Screwtape Letters, A Grief Observed or Mere Christianity are in the same ballpark. Those are my actual favorite Lewis books. I do think ALL Christians should read those, they are beyond brilliant and in those Lewis truly shines. I cannot compare those to the other books we are discussing here.

 

and to be fair I didn't like the ending of Narnia. :lol:

[Rosie_0801]

If I were to rate the HP series on a scale up to five stars, it would maybe get two... tentacles. Of a single star, that is. :p

 

Look, no one who has read your post in the "What Books Do You Love" thread is going to pay any attention to what you say in this one!

 

:tongue_smilie:

Rosie

[Slartibartfast]

Look, no one who has read your post in the "What Books Do You Love" thread is going to pay any attention to what you say in this one!

 

:tongue_smilie:

Rosie

Oh now I like my Dostoevsky too but a little light reading is certainly good now and then. :lol: I also like doughnuts sometimes.

[delaney]

For me great literature is something that is well written, makes you want to read it, and draws you into the story. HP did that for me. I also love Tom Clancy and Ken Follet. What is good literature if no one wants to read it, right? Now I draw the line at the weak and badly written Twilight series. THAT is poor writing with an amazing story(fro some) over the top. Loved the series and she will go down in history for starting a social storm but not as a great writer. I have and will always keep the HP series to share with my kids.