Already contacted HSLDA- just need to vent while I wait!

[I talk to the trees]

Dd is a "rising fifth grader" this year. We have homeschooled from day one. Every year, I have used the same template to draw up my IHIP and quarter reports, and every year, they have all been "approved." But yesterday, I received a nasty little letter from the superintendent (the same one that has been there for at least the past 5 years) telling me that I need to submit an additional "Plan of Action" or syllabus in addition to my list of textbooks and sources. What?:001_huh:

 

So suddenly, after 4 years of the same format, she decides that a list of textbooks (and not just a list, mind you. I give full bibliographical information on each item!) is no longer acceptable? This means one of three things to me. 1) After four years of telling me that my IHIP's were perfectly fine (and they were, according to NY law,) she decides that SHE wants to interpret the law in a different way. or 2) She hasn't ever actually taken the time to read or even look at my previous IHIP's. If that's the case, she needs to be terminated immediately for four consecutive years of failure to carry out her duties! or (and my money is on this one) 3) She has decided that she just wants to flex her bureaucratic muscles and show those evil homeschoolers just how tough she is- in other words, she's being a bully just for the sake of being a bully!

 

As if THAT weren't enough, The letter we received was dated August 16th, and she makes it clear that I have only 15 days from the date of the letter to get my corrected information to her. But it wasn't postmarked until the 20th, so that we would receive it on the 21st (a Saturday,) which takes an ENTIRE WEEK away from the 15 days I have to respond. That was clearly intentional, and is what makes me lean toward possibility no. 3 above.

 

So since I have to be polite to this nasty cow (I wouldn't want any other homeschoolers in the district to be targeted because of me.) please allow me to vent my feelings here- :rant: :cursing::cursing::cursing:

 

Ahhh. That's better. Now all I have to do is wait for HSLDA to get back to me.

[holdoll]

:grouphug:

I am so sorry you have to deal with this cr*p! Glad you've already contacted HSLDA.

 

I don't live in NY, but also had to contact HSLDA this summer when the "Director" of our school district did not even pretend to comply with our laws. All I can say is thank heaven for HSLDA and cross your t's and dot your i's.

 

It's a fine line to walk - not wanting to bring a magnifying glass from the school district onto your fellow home schoolers and standing up for your rights. But the more they can get home schoolers to do what they want, the more they can go to your state legislature and say "see, this is what we want and it's not an issue because the majority of home schoolers are already doing it anyway".

[5LittleMonkeys]

I am so sorry you have to deal with this! I hope you hear back from HSLDA very soon and it can be resolved quickly by a quick phone call to her from HSLDA or a promptly sent letter. This kind of stuff makes me so happy that I can register as a satellite extension of a private school. It also makes me really glad that we have HSLDA to look out for us. Sending good, happy thoughts your way.:001_smile:

[Daisy]

UUGH! I will be praying for a speedy resolution.

 

On a side line, I HATE Saturday mail for this very reason. I cannot stand receiving stuff like this on a day when you can't actually DO anything about it. You just get to stew in your juices all weekend long. :grouphug:

[Paintedlady]

I'm just snotty enough that I'd ignore her. Let HSLDA deal with her.

[delaney]

I am guessing that NY is a tough homeschool state? I like the medium stand VA seems to have on it. Some accountability but not tons.

[AngelaNYC]

She may be in her jurisdiction since the Q&A for this states:

 

 

1. Are parents required to submit more than a list of textbooks in the IHIP to comply with the requirements of subdivision (d) of Section 100.10? The IHIP must include for each of the required courses either a list of syllabi, curriculum materials and textbooks to be used or a plan of instruction to be followed. A different alternative may be used for different subjects. While a list of textbooks may be submitted, it is reasonable for the district to require more than the name, publisher, copyright date and author's name if the district is not familiar with the textbook's content. If the district requests additional information beyond the list of textbooks, the parents may, at their option, submit either a written scope and sequence describing the text or a copy of the text for the district's review (which copy shall be promptly returned to the parents). The purpose of such review is not to compare the text with those employed by the district, but rather: 1) to insure that the parent is providing the mandated subjects for the grade level in question, and 2) to provide the district with more complete information to assist its review of quarterly reports and annual assessments.
   

She didn't need to be nasty and it makes no sense to bring up any old IHIPs. I agree that they do try to flex their bureaucratic muscles when they can.

[Maverick_Mom]

Before I even read your post, I knew you had to be from NY. ;) 'Cause I am, too, and this is just such a NY thing to go through.

 

My district just decided to "get religion" on the regulations and made up IHIP forms that, IMHO, misrepresent parts of the regulations. Previously, their forms were pretty general. Now, they've decided what they're entitled to -- some of it they are, some of it they're not. So I made up my own forms this year. So far, so good.

 

I'm not a member of HSLDA -- I opted for CLA -- but it's good to have that support at a time like this. Good luck. And let us know what happens.

[Maverick_Mom]

She may be in her jurisdiction since the Q&A for this states:

 

 

1. Are parents required to submit more than a list of textbooks in the IHIP to comply with the requirements of subdivision (d) of Section 100.10? The IHIP must include for each of the required courses either a list of syllabi, curriculum materials and textbooks to be used or a plan of instruction to be followed. A different alternative may be used for different subjects. While a list of textbooks may be submitted, it is reasonable for the district to require more than the name, publisher, copyright date and author's name if the district is not familiar with the textbook's content. If the district requests additional information beyond the list of textbooks, the parents may, at their option, submit either a written scope and sequence describing the text or a copy of the text for the district's review (which copy shall be promptly returned to the parents). The purpose of such review is not to compare the text with those employed by the district, but rather: 1) to insure that the parent is providing the mandated subjects for the grade level in question, and 2) to provide the district with more complete information to assist its review of quarterly reports and annual assessments.
   

She didn't need to be nasty and it makes no sense to bring up any old IHIPs. I agree that they do try to flex their bureaucratic muscles when they can.

 

That's the thing -- the Q & A is also written by the NYSED and carries the same weight, as I understand it, because its intent is to *clarify* the actual regulations. We need to be as familiar with them as with the regs themselves.

[Maverick_Mom]

I am guessing that NY is a tough homeschool state? I like the medium stand VA seems to have on it. Some accountability but not tons.

 

Some would say yes, some would say no. I say yes, but then, I'm a rebellious sort of person. :D

 

For me, the *attitude* that I encounter from the people to whom I report is almost more irritating than the hoops I have to jump through.

[Maverick_Mom]

UUGH! I will be praying for a speedy resolution.

 

On a side line, I HATE Saturday mail for this very reason. I cannot stand receiving stuff like this on a day when you can't actually DO anything about it. You just get to stew in your juices all weekend long. :grouphug:

 

It's a corollary of Murphy's Law, IMHO. Just like the way that medical emergencies that are not-quite-ER-worthy happen after 5 PM on Fridays and on holiday weekends. ;)

[AngelaNYC]

That's the thing -- the Q & A is also written by the NYSED and carries the same weight, as I understand it, because its intent is to *clarify* the actual regulations. We need to be as familiar with them as with the regs themselves.

 

Yep. When I first started homeschooling I remember having to send the district a copy of these Q&As with a few things highlighted showing them that they were wrong in requiring certain things. Once they realized I actually did know what I was doing, they left me alone. Good luck.

[sheryl]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. :grouphug: It sounds like you exercised a great deal of discernment over this matter, and it was wise to contact HSLDA!

 

Document everything....this envelope with postmark, papers, phone calls, dates/times/duration, etc.

 

This will work out for you!! Be encouraged.

[lulubelle]

We are currently dealing with our school district asking for more than they "should" be. My husband is currently perfecting a letter to the woman in charge of homeschoolers with case law written in and we have already contacted HSLDA. We know a friend that took a lawyer into a school meeting with them a couple of years ago for asking for too much. The school backed off. We are hoping they will back off us and I hope the same for you.

[alpidarkomama]

Instead of paying money to someone, if it were me I would just make a copy of your state's homeschool law, write a letter saying that you have complied with the requirements of the law (enclosed for her reference), and tell her you will seek legal counsel if she continues to pursue this matter.

 

I doubt the three-day delay between writing it and sending it was intentional... Beaurocracies...

[LibraryLover]

Chaos Theory in action. ;)

 

It's a corollary of Murphy's Law, IMHO. Just like the way that medical emergencies that are not-quite-ER-worthy happen after 5 PM on Fridays and on holiday weekends. ;)

[I talk to the trees]

She may be in her jurisdiction since the Q&A for this states:

 

 

 

1. Are parents required to submit more than a list of textbooks in the IHIP to comply with the requirements of subdivision (d) of Section 100.10? The IHIP must include for each of the required courses either a list of syllabi, curriculum materials and textbooks to be used or a plan of instruction to be followed. A different alternative may be used for different subjects. While a list of textbooks may be submitted, it is reasonable for the district to require more than the name, publisher, copyright date and author's name if the district is not familiar with the textbook's content. If the district requests additional information beyond the list of textbooks, the parents may, at their option, submit either a written scope and sequence describing the text or a copy of the text for the district's review (which copy shall be promptly returned to the parents). The purpose of such review is not to compare the text with those employed by the district, but rather: 1) to insure that the parent is providing the mandated subjects for the grade level in question, and 2) to provide the district with more complete information to assist its review of quarterly reports and annual assessments.

 

She didn't need to be nasty and it makes no sense to bring up any old IHIPs. I agree that they do try to flex their bureaucratic muscles when they can.

 

You know, I'd buy that excuse IF she hadn't accepted four previous IHIP's in the exact same format without so much as a whisper, or if this was my first ever IHIP, or even if she had some actual reason to believe that I wasn't actually educating my child. But she HAS accepted all of my IHIP's in the past, and I have a four year record of very clear, detailed, quarter reports (3-5 pages, usually, and single spaced!) showing the way we complete our textbooks and other activities.

 

Nah, she's being a bully, and I'm not going to let her intimidate me! Right? Right?

.

.

.

The truth is, I detest confrontations, so I'm trying to put on my best, Clint Eastwood, "Go ahead. Make my day" attitude. *sigh* Is it working?

[I talk to the trees]

:grouphug: Just wanted to say thanks for listening! I know people deal with this and worse every day, and I need to not get my knickers in a twist over it!

 

In the meantime, since there is really nothing more I can do about the situation this evening, perhaps a little red wine and chocolate will help! Anyone care to join me?:001_smile:

[radiobrain]

First of all, I am sorry that you are going through this, as it sucks.

 

However, maybe the reason she approved all the other ones and didn't this one is because she went to some "meeting" or conference recently and she has a new perspective on it. Just trying to find a reason, as usually this sort of thing doesn't happen unless it is someone new in the position or just went through a "training session" or some other awful thing.

 

I hope it works out alright!

 

remind me not to move to NY! ;)

[happi duck]

On a side line, I HATE Saturday mail for this very reason. I cannot stand receiving stuff like this on a day when you can't actually DO anything about it. You just get to stew in your juices all weekend long. :grouphug:

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[mschickie]

I live in NY too and I think alot of districts are coming down on hsers this year. We have had a couple of districts around here push their limits. Thankfully there is HSLDA, no NY hser should be without them!

 

If my Superintendent asked for more info I think I would just print off the discription of the book from the publishers or distributors site and send that in. They never said the info needs to be pretty.

 

Our district is slow too. Dh called to make sure they got our letter of intent (since we never heard anything). Well a week or so later they called saying they never received our annual assement so we resent that. Well when we originally sent in the annual assement (June) we asked for a letter of completion for our one daughter. We got the letter of completion about a week after we sent in the assement, so who knows what they did with our original paperwork. These districts can drive you crazy sometimes.

[Ellie]

Instead of paying money to someone, if it were me I would just make a copy of your state's homeschool law, write a letter saying that you have complied with the requirements of the law (enclosed for her reference), and tell her you will seek legal counsel if she continues to pursue this matter.

That might work in some states, but I doubt it would in NY. In any case, the annual HSLDA membership would be less than what it would cost for an attorney.

 

I doubt the three-day delay between writing it and sending it was intentional... Beaurocracies...

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't put it past them.:glare:

[melmichigan]

Sorry you are going through this. Which reminds me I need to work on my paperwork. :D

[BeckyFL]

So thankful I don't live there and so sorry you have to put up with that!!! :grouphug:

[hillfarm]

If the district does not fall right in line with the law after HSLDA gets involved, don't forget to contact your state senators' and representatives' offices. Give them an overview of what is happening and then ask that they would intercede with the state BOE to resolve the issue and protect your legal rights. There's nothing a state agency hates more than having to answer to elected officials.

 

Regarding why your nemesis might have waited 4 years before starting this, perhaps she is trying to position herself to move on to a job. I see this often in my area. A school employee who has aspirations of moving up will try to make a big splash, to whip some element into shape, and then use that as a springboard to advance. Or things will be going along fine and someone will move up and the new person comes in breathing fire and planning to make some changes now that they are the "new sheriff in town". It is upsetting when it is a minor underling that happens to be involved in our homeschooling paperwork. It is infuriating when it is a superintendant who tries to pass bond levies and force consolidation of entire school districts, with fancy new facilities at the tax payers' expense.

[Maverick_Mom]

That might work in some states, but I doubt it would in NY. In any case, the annual HSLDA membership would be less than what it would cost for an attorney.

 

 

:iagree:

[Maverick_Mom]

If the district does not fall right in line with the law after HSLDA gets involved, don't forget to contact your state senators' and representatives' offices. Give them an overview of what is happening and then ask that they would intercede with the state BOE to resolve the issue and protect your legal rights. There's nothing a state agency hates more than having to answer to elected officials.

 

 

 

I agree with this completely.

[Alessandra]

 

1. Are parents required to submit more than a list of textbooks in the IHIP to comply with the requirements of subdivision (d) of Section 100.10? The IHIP must include for each of the required courses either a list of syllabi, curriculum materials and textbooks to be used or a plan of instruction to be followed. A different alternative may be used for different subjects. While a list of textbooks may be submitted, it is reasonable for the district to require more than the name, publisher, copyright date and author's name if the district is not familiar with the textbook's content. If the district requests additional information beyond the list of textbooks, the parents may, at their option, submit either a written scope and sequence describing the text or a copy of the text for the district's review (which copy shall be promptly returned to the parents). The purpose of such review is not to compare the text with those employed by the district, but rather: 1) to insure that the parent is providing the mandated subjects for the grade level in question, and 2) to provide the district with more complete information to assist its review of quarterly reports and annual assessments.

 

 

Oh, this is going to be snarky, but there is no such thing as a 'different alternative.' Alter means 'other' -- there can only be one alternative. There can be different methods, ways, choices, etc, but not different alternatives.

[mommytobees]

And this is why we will NOT be taking orders to NY state!!!

 

Good luck!

 

Kris

[AngelaNYC]

Oh, this is going to be snarky, but there is no such thing as a 'different alternative.' Alter means 'other' -- there can only be one alternative. There can be different methods, ways, choices, etc, but not different alternatives.

 

 

LOL! See what we deal with??

[NanceXToo]

Do you have a homeschool liason at your state's Department of Education? If so, you could give them a call and see what they have to say on the subject.

 

Sometimes districts ask for more than they are entitled to by law, and I think it's perfectly acceptable to stand up for yourself when that happens. Case in point: My first year submitting an end-of-the-year homeschooling portfolio, I included 3-5 samples from each required subject. The law says to submit "samples;" it doesn't specify how many. I read that people often give a sample or two from the beginning,the middle, and the end of the year, so that's what I did.

 

Imagine my surprise when my district called telling me I hadn't submitted enough and I should just "bring in everything you have, he wants to see all of your work."

 

According to them, that's what everyone else around here does. So apparently "everyone else" likes to over-comply, which doesn't make it easy for the people who want to just submit what they are required to by law and call it good.

 

As a new homeschooler, I contacted the homeschool liason at the PA Dept. of Ed to confirm that I did NOT have to submit "everything," and after speaking to her, I called the district back and said that I had submitted samples as required by law, they had my evaluator's letter stating that an appropriate education was being received, and that if they felt one wasn't, they could send me a certified letter saying so and detailing what they felt they needed to see more of, and that once I received that, I'd get them a few more samples, but that I was not going to bring in "everything."

 

They never did send the certified letter, once they knew that I knew the law, they backed off. And I haven't received any complaints about my portfolio this year (I included with it a page of excerpts from the law, and highlighted the word "samples" in yellow highlighter lol).

 

But then again from what someone else posted, it sounds like in NY maybe they ARE within their rights to request more than what you gave... so I'd see what the dept. of ed. or the HSLDA has to say. Then go with it, providing the minimum you are allowed to by law.

[Greta]

I'm not a member of HSLDA -- I opted for CLA -- but it's good to have that support at a time like this. Good luck. And let us know what happens.

 

I'm curious what this is. I googled but got lots of information about conjugated linoleic acid. :D

[I talk to the trees]

Ahhhh...(insert deep sigh of relief)

 

I just heard back from the folks at HSLDA, and (surprise, surprise!) my IHIP is, in fact, in compliance with state law. They are writing to the district on my behalf.

 

Hopefully, I won't have to take any further steps. This has made me realize just how awful I am in a confrontational situation. I was actually having chest pain on Sunday night thinking about it. I really need to :chillpill:.

[oasis]

remind me not to move to NY! ;)

 

:iagree:

 

I'm happy to hear HSLDA is writing to the district on your behalf!

[Ellie]

Ahhhh...(insert deep sigh of relief)

 

I just heard back from the folks at HSLDA, and (surprise, surprise!) my IHIP is, in fact, in compliance with state law. They are writing to the district on my behalf.

:party:

 

Hopefully, I won't have to take any further steps. This has made me realize just how awful I am in a confrontational situation. I was actually having chest pain on Sunday night thinking about it. I really need to :chillpill:.

:grouphug:

[Maverick_Mom]

I'm curious what this is. I googled but got lots of information about conjugated linoleic acid. :D

 

:laugh:

 

Sorry about that -- it stands for Christian Legal Association. They have a program called Homeschool Legal Advantage

, which is similar to HSLDA. I opted to go with them because I felt that HSLDA could use a little competition. :tongue_smilie:

[I talk to the trees]

:laugh:

 

Sorry about that -- it stands for Christian Legal Association. They have a program called Homeschool Legal Advantage

, which is similar to HSLDA. I opted to go with them because I felt that HSLDA could use a little competition. :tongue_smilie:

 

Well! You learn something new every day. HSLDA is handling this problem for me, and I'm glad I was able to call them about this one! But I have never heard of the Homeschool Legal Advantage. I'll be sure to mention their web address at the next LEAH meeting I attend!

[Tea Time]

:laugh:

 

Sorry about that -- it stands for Christian Legal Association. They have a program called Homeschool Legal Advantage

, which is similar to HSLDA. I opted to go with them because I felt that HSLDA could use a little competition. :tongue_smilie:

 

Competition is healthy! I am a member of THSC (Texas Home School Coalition) instead of HSLDA because I believe in the principle of subsidiarity (matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority). They have been a great resource for information. Texas is very home schooler friendly, and yet, THSC still manages to keep pretty busy on the legal front. Disturbing.

[Greta]

:laugh:

 

Sorry about that -- it stands for Christian Legal Association. They have a program called Homeschool Legal Advantage

, which is similar to HSLDA. I opted to go with them because I felt that HSLDA could use a little competition. :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks! I'm not a member of HSLDA, and like to be aware of other options. AHSA was the only other one I had heard of before, and I believe it works a little differently (not sure, though. it's been some time since I looked into it.) It's good to know what's out there, so I appreciate your help!

[Maverick_Mom]

Competition is healthy! I am a member of THSC (Texas Home School Coalition) instead of HSLDA because I believe in the principle of subsidiarity (matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority).

 

I've never heard the word "subsidiarity" before, but I have long been a staunch supporter of the principle you're describing -- I just never knew it had a name! :)

Edited August 25, 2010 by Maverick_Mom

[In2why]

:grouphug: Just wanted to say thanks for listening! I know people deal with this and worse every day, and I need to not get my knickers in a twist over it!

 

In the meantime, since there is really nothing more I can do about the situation this evening, perhaps a little red wine and chocolate will help! Anyone care to join me?:001_smile:

 

 

I get it.....In fact I get snotty when our superintendent send me my yearly permission letter. I don't need his approval or permission under our law. I just have to notify him according to the law. It irritates me every time I get it. But I guess I am oppositional/defiant that way. :D