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Without getting into details, my digestive system is not doing what it is supposed to be doing. I know that I am not absorbing vitamins and other nutrients (thus there are deficiencies). I've just come off of 5 weeks of antibiotics but the problem is older than that. I am taking probiotics. I'm also now taking my vitamins in liquid form. This seems to be a vicious circle with affects my immune system, my adrenals (and energy), my weight (even though I'm overweight). I have been testing for gluten problems and celiac and that is totally ruled out.

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Do you have a naturopath that you see and trust?

 

I see one regularly (as needed) and take my kids as well. This naturopath has put my kids on greens (chlorella or chlorophyll) as needed and both have worked quite well to help with digestive issues. I am not knowledgeable enough to give you advice on dosage but I can vouch that these have really worked for my kids in terms of clearing up digestive issues and helping with absorption of nutrients.

 

They do regular probiotics as well and we've completely removed dairy from our diet.

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I would ditto the dairy.

Lactose or casein intolerance are IMO much bigger issues than gluten.

I'd cut all dairy for a month.

 

BUT - & I apologize in advance that I'm bringing dogs into it, it's just that this is where I have experience with other ongoing digestive issues - I've also seen in foster dogs that sometimes their gut gets so inflamed that even good food & eliminating allergens doesn't heal up the gut. They need a course of metronidazole to get the anaerobic bacteria in the gut out of there & then, they can begin to heal.

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Without getting into details, my digestive system is not doing what it is supposed to be doing. I know that I am not absorbing vitamins and other nutrients (thus there are deficiencies). I've just come off of 5 weeks of antibiotics but the problem is older than that. I am taking probiotics. I'm also now taking my vitamins in liquid form. This seems to be a vicious circle with affects my immune system, my adrenals (and energy), my weight (even though I'm overweight). I have been testing for gluten problems and celiac and that is totally ruled out.

 

Jean, are you sure the gluten is ruled out? Did you actually go OFF gluten to see how you felt? I've heard so many stories and know one person personally who has never actually tested positive for celiac but who, in retrospect, is very clearly a sufferer, and even her skeptical doctors accept that now.

 

Also, the problem may not be gluten, but grains/carbohydrates in general. I'm slowly starting to see that in myself as well, and I wouldn't have recognized it if I hadn't gone on the South Beach Diet a few months ago and cut all carbs for a few weeks. Every single one of my digestive problems vanished. Since then, even when I've done well with avoiding gluten, I can see that I still have some symptoms, especially after I have carbs of any kind. (I need to go to take some heartburn meds right now, in fact :() They're not as severe as when there's gluten involved, but they're still there.

 

If you don't think that's the issue, then I'd go to the lactose/casein elimination next. If I still didn't find relief, I'd consider what hornblower is saying and start working on healing your gut. Then you can begin to add things back in and see how you feel with each one.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry you're still struggling with all of this!

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Without getting into details, my digestive system is not doing what it is supposed to be doing. .

 

Be brave, Jean, we need more details. Are we talking about upper or lower digestive problems? If we're talking lower, are we talking about "overactive" or "underactive"? If it could be something like Irritable Bowel Syndrome you can always send me a PM...one of my dc deals with this.

 

:grouphug:

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I have irritable bowel syndrome and have had it since high school (now almost 37) It is the :001_huh:where's the bathroom NOW kind! I have tried the elimination diet, eliminating everything that can cause probs from my diet, milk, gluten, sugar, coffee, irritants...to no avail. The minute I introduced a food I would RUN!!! I finally went back to the gastroenterologist and they put me on a med called Cholestyramine. It is a bile acid reducer and I am not kidding you!!! it is a miracle! I took it the first 3 days and actually then bound myself up like a stuffed goose. I now take it every 2-3 days and for 3 weeks now haven't had to RUN once. I have even tested it out with my tried and true foods that I know cause me problems...eggs, pancakes, coffee, any fast foods and the cheesy eggs in the cafeteria at the hospital that I work and nothing has made me go.

 

I had diarrhea so bad I had cramps, sweats, nausea etc. The cramps were worse than labor. I was to the point where I didn't want to eat unless I was at home, lest I couldn't make it to the restroom!

 

Miracle I say!!! miracle!

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We've tried many different probiotics for my eldest over the years. Awhile back I strongly felt that if things didn't improve she would end up with malnutrition issues. So I searched and searched the net. I read lots of positive reviews for the probiotic we now use from people with far more severe health issues.

 

I started her out on the professional formula, something like 5 morning and night for 5 days, then one twice per day. Dd did much better. When that box was done she went on the regular one, and her issues came back. So now I have her on the professional one and am going to keep her there for probably six months and then see if the regular will be enough.

 

Dr. Ohhira's Probiotics 12 Plus Professional Formula. If you search the net you'll be able to find it online.

 

The probiotics are grown together (instead of separately) and are not dried out or anything for packaging. They are packaged with the food they are growing on. The difference between regular and professional has to do with the number of years growing, and something about acid which I can't recall right now. But if interested you'll be able to find the info on the net.

 

I agree with all the other suggestions too. It's like a puzzle you have to solve, and it's not the same for everyone.

 

BUT - & I apologize in advance that I'm bringing dogs into it, it's just that this is where I have experience with other ongoing digestive issues - I've also seen in foster dogs that sometimes their gut gets so inflamed that even good food & eliminating allergens doesn't heal up the gut. They need a course of metronidazole to get the anaerobic bacteria in the gut out of there & then, they can begin to heal.

 

Hornblower, do you know if metronidazole is used on humans? I know my dd's bacteria is out of balance. I've read lots on the detriment of it being out of balance (humans), and how to purposefully put it out of balance (in lab animals) and the resulting disease, but I haven't been able to find much on getting it all back into balance. Dr. Ohhira's is the closest we've gotten to a solution, but it isn't one. And as you mentioned in your post, it isn't all about eating just the good stuff. My dd has been doing that for years as it was how she kept the pain to a minimum.

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Do you have a naturopath that you see and trust?

 

I see one regularly (as needed) and take my kids as well. This naturopath has put my kids on greens (chlorella or chlorophyll) as needed and both have worked quite well to help with digestive issues. I am not knowledgeable enough to give you advice on dosage but I can vouch that these have really worked for my kids in terms of clearing up digestive issues and helping with absorption of nutrients.

 

They do regular probiotics as well and we've completely removed dairy from our diet.

 

My liquid vitamins include chlorophyll. My pee is now a lovely light green color. . .:blushing:

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Jean, are you sure the gluten is ruled out? Did you actually go OFF gluten to see how you felt? I've heard so many stories and know one person personally who has never actually tested positive for celiac but who, in retrospect, is very clearly a sufferer, and even her skeptical doctors accept that now.

 

Also, the problem may not be gluten, but grains/carbohydrates in general. I'm slowly starting to see that in myself as well, and I wouldn't have recognized it if I hadn't gone on the South Beach Diet a few months ago and cut all carbs for a few weeks. Every single one of my digestive problems vanished. Since then, even when I've done well with avoiding gluten, I can see that I still have some symptoms, especially after I have carbs of any kind. (I need to go to take some heartburn meds right now, in fact :() They're not as severe as when there's gluten involved, but they're still there.

 

If you don't think that's the issue, then I'd go to the lactose/casein elimination next. If I still didn't find relief, I'd consider what hornblower is saying and start working on healing your gut. Then you can begin to add things back in and see how you feel with each one.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry you're still struggling with all of this!

 

Yes, I've gone off all gluten because my last naturopath was convinced that even though I tested negative for a gluten sensitivity and tested negative for celiac, that I still had a problem with gluten. My symptoms did not change at all while I was off of gluten.

 

I have not gone off of all lactose/casein lately but my last blood test for allergies showed no problem with dairy.

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Be brave, Jean, we need more details. Are we talking about upper or lower digestive problems? If we're talking lower, are we talking about "overactive" or "underactive"? If it could be something like Irritable Bowel Syndrome you can always send me a PM...one of my dc deals with this.

 

:grouphug:

 

:blushing::blushing::blushing: Let's just say that I can often tell what I've eaten in the past by looking in a porcelain bowl. Food goes right through me without being worked on very much by my digestive system.

 

I was having a lot of problems with diarrhea until I went on a 2 month parasite treatment. It got tons better afterward. But then my immune system was very weak and I've been sick non-stop (sinus infection and throat infection and then pneumonia) for the last 2 months. I have the diarrhea back again but I think that might be helped with high powered probiotics - at least I hope. Rhea- I'll look for the ones you mentioned.

 

I also went through a gallbladder detox. (I'm thinking I might need that for longer.)

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How about a total water fast for about a week (a la Dr. Fuhrman)? Then you could add food back in slowly and see how each one feels to you.

 

While this may be helpful to others reading this thread, I'm afraid that I could not do this. My adrenal glands are almost totally not working - this means that I need to eat every few hours to maintain energy just to be out of bed. It also means that the adrenals which are important in hormonal regulation and in maintaining the immune system, are not doing their job very well. Any stress on my body (and this fast would be a big stressor) causes a big time reaction. I was almost in the hospital a couple of weeks ago because my immune system is so shot. I'm not so sure that I might not have to go back on antibiotics in a couple of days because I'm having a lot of sinus pain after being off of antibiotics for just 12 hours (sigh). My body does not have reserves with which to heal itself right now.

 

I'm hoping to build up my immune system and my adrenals by giving myself good nutrition but if my body isn't absorbing the good nutrients then it compromises my immune system and my adrenals. . . and the cycle continues.

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Jean, have you ever done a complete cleanse, colon, liver & kidneys? Then start again with a double dose of probiotics and perhaps add lacto-fermented foods, like Kefir and homemade mayo.

I know you have just been through a regiment of meds and it all takes time to get into balance again.

I heard the other day (again) that iodine and the Bieler Broth (lots of green zucchini) are good for depleted adrenals and I was thinking of you. Maybe it would be good to add a supplement rich in iodine and other enzymes for several month so you can gauge its effects.

 

It may take months of eating those kinds of foods to regain some normalcy and you may have to continue with it. I just made it part of my diet after a two year course of antibiotics many years ago.

 

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:

 

I was having a lot of problems with diarrhea until I went on a 2 month parasite treatment. It got tons better afterward. But then my immune system was very weak and I've been sick non-stop (sinus infection and throat infection and then pneumonia) for the last 2 months. I have the diarrhea back again but I think that might be helped with high powered probiotics - at least I hope. Rhea- I'll look for the ones you mentioned.

 

I also went through a gallbladder detox. (I'm thinking I might need that for longer.)

 

You might want to look at this website for info. about IBS: http://www.helpforibs.com

For my dd, the worst trigger foods are insoluble fiber, fats/oils, and acidic foods like tomatoes and citrus. Whole grains are also a problem...and this became very evident when I switched to a lot of whole grains after my dh became Type II diabetic. When I switched to whole grain versions of "white foods" it was good for him but my dd suffered until I learned about how insoluble fiber is a trigger for IBS but soluble fiber isn't.

 

I would also check the labels of any vitamins/supplements you use and look for magnesium...if you're having diarrhea any magnesium could be making it worse (think "Milk of Magnesia").

 

Something that helps my dd during a flare up is coconut macaroons...really. I was skeptical when I read about this as a help for chronic diarrhea but they really do help. I started with homemade but found that a package of Franz macaroon bites from the store works just as well...but it has to be real macaroons with very definite pieces of shredded coconut, not just coconut flavored cookies. A couple a day was the suggested amount.

 

You might also try drinking water about 20-30 minutes before your meals rather than having something to drink with your meal. This might help to get your digestive juices flowing so that you'll be able to digest your meal...rather than diluting your gastric juices by drinking your beverage with the meal.

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Jean, have you ever done a complete cleanse, colon, liver & kidneys? Then start again with a double dose of probiotics and perhaps add lacto-fermented foods, like Kefir and homemade mayo.

I know you have just been through a regiment of meds and it all takes time to get into balance again.

I heard the other day (again) that iodine and the Bieler Broth (lots of green zucchini) are good for depleted adrenals and I was thinking of you. Maybe it would be good to add a supplement rich in iodine and other enzymes for several month so you can gauge its effects.

 

It may take months of eating those kinds of foods to regain some normalcy and you may have to continue with it. I just made it part of my diet after a two year course of antibiotics many years ago.

 

 

My ND/MD wants to do a complete detox but he's been putting it off because he did not think I was healthy enough to do it. I have had an adrenal broth (it had zucchini and green beans in it) but I don't know if it is the Bieler version. I need to make it again, though.

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You might want to look at this website for info. about IBS: http://www.helpforibs.com

For my dd, the worst trigger foods are insoluble fiber, fats/oils, and acidic foods like tomatoes and citrus. Whole grains are also a problem...and this became very evident when I switched to a lot of whole grains after my dh became Type II diabetic. When I switched to whole grain versions of "white foods" it was good for him but my dd suffered until I learned about how insoluble fiber is a trigger for IBS but soluble fiber isn't.

 

I would also check the labels of any vitamins/supplements you use and look for magnesium...if you're having diarrhea any magnesium could be making it worse (think "Milk of Magnesia").

 

Something that helps my dd during a flare up is coconut macaroons...really. I was skeptical when I read about this as a help for chronic diarrhea but they really do help. I started with homemade but found that a package of Franz macaroon bites from the store works just as well...but it has to be real macaroons with very definite pieces of shredded coconut, not just coconut flavored cookies. A couple a day was the suggested amount.

 

You might also try drinking water about 20-30 minutes before your meals rather than having something to drink with your meal. This might help to get your digestive juices flowing so that you'll be able to digest your meal...rather than diluting your gastric juices by drinking your beverage with the meal.

 

I'll look into all this. Thank you.

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I have irritable bowel syndrome and have had it since high school (now almost 37) It is the :001_huh:where's the bathroom NOW kind! I have tried the elimination diet, eliminating everything that can cause probs from my diet, milk, gluten, sugar, coffee, irritants...to no avail. The minute I introduced a food I would RUN!!! I finally went back to the gastroenterologist and they put me on a med called Cholestyramine. It is a bile acid reducer and I am not kidding you!!! it is a miracle! I took it the first 3 days and actually then bound myself up like a stuffed goose. I now take it every 2-3 days and for 3 weeks now haven't had to RUN once. I have even tested it out with my tried and true foods that I know cause me problems...eggs, pancakes, coffee, any fast foods and the cheesy eggs in the cafeteria at the hospital that I work and nothing has made me go.

 

I had diarrhea so bad I had cramps, sweats, nausea etc. The cramps were worse than labor. I was to the point where I didn't want to eat unless I was at home, lest I couldn't make it to the restroom!

 

Miracle I say!!! miracle!

 

 

How much do you take?

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My ND/MD wants to do a complete detox but he's been putting it off because he did not think I was healthy enough to do it. I have had an adrenal broth (it had zucchini and green beans in it) but I don't know if it is the Bieler version. I need to make it again, though.

 

Yup, this sounds like the Bieler version to me. I have two recipes in my NT cookbook - one plain one and one more epicurian.

 

Perhaps you could bring the detox up again to your MD/ND and see if they can prep your system up to reach that point.

I am all for building up immune system for various reasons and there are some decent products out there. I am checking into Essense Health Blend - http://www.essense-of-life.com/moreinfo/supplementblends/B-305/Essense+Health+Blend.htm

to vary my supplements a little.

If you did something like this for 3-6 mos, do you think you may be ready for a detox?

 

Also, my ND always says, that for every month one had the condition, it will take another month to heal. Sometimes it goes faster - I guess that is God giving us a bonus.

Edited by Liz CA
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Something that helps my dd during a flare up is coconut macaroons...really. I was skeptical when I read about this as a help for chronic diarrhea but they really do help. I started with homemade but found that a package of Franz macaroon bites from the store works just as well...but it has to be real macaroons with very definite pieces of shredded coconut, not just coconut flavored cookies. A couple a day was the suggested amount.

 

You might also try drinking water about 20-30 minutes before your meals rather than having something to drink with your meal. This might help to get your digestive juices flowing so that you'll be able to digest your meal...rather than diluting your gastric juices by drinking your beverage with the meal.

 

When I spent time in South America my hosts treated my gastro distress with coconut water. It really helped!

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I also live as if I'm celiac, though I have no diagnosis other than IBS. My gallbladder is gone. No soy, no cow's dairy either.

 

I have taken MegaFlora for a long time, and all these measures help, but I've had great success recently taking digestive enzymes. Wobenzyme seems good, and I alternate it with pancreatin and quercetin with bromelain. The trick is remembering to take the enzymes every time I eat :001_smile:

 

I'm sorry you're having this trouble, and I hope you find some solutions.

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:blushing::blushing::blushing: Let's just say that I can often tell what I've eaten in the past by looking in a porcelain bowl. Food goes right through me without being worked on very much by my digestive system.

 

I was having a lot of problems with diarrhea until I went on a 2 month parasite treatment. It got tons better afterward. But then my immune system was very weak and I've been sick non-stop (sinus infection and throat infection and then pneumonia) for the last 2 months. I have the diarrhea back again but I think that might be helped with high powered probiotics - at least I hope. Rhea- I'll look for the ones you mentioned.

 

I also went through a gallbladder detox. (I'm thinking I might need that for longer.)

 

I had this same problem about 18 years ago. Food would go right through me. The only thing that helped was getting off gluten. I also had blood tests and even a small bowel biopsy that showed I didn't have celiac or a wheat allergy. But not eating gluten helped immensely. Now lately I have been having a lot of trouble digesting food. I'm also on liquid vitamins now which has helped my energy level and stopped me from losing weight.

 

Do you have a juicer? That helped me as well. Also the probiotics. I'd hold off on any kind of detoxing right now. If your digestive system doesn't work well, all those toxins will have no where to go.

 

Someone else mentioned coconut macaroons. I never tried that but I have heard that it does help.

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Jean, why don't you go on Dr. McDougall's site and post about your problem? Maybe someone else over there has had the same thing and can give you some tips. Or, if you don't agree with anything that is said, you just ignore it and don't go back. It's free and there's really nothing to lose.

 

I think Dr. Fuhrman has a site, too, but I don't think it's free (not sure about that).

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Jean, why don't you go on Dr. McDougall's site and post about your problem? Maybe someone else over there has had the same thing and can give you some tips. Or, if you don't agree with anything that is said, you just ignore it and don't go back. It's free and there's really nothing to lose.

 

I think Dr. Fuhrman has a site, too, but I don't think it's free (not sure about that).

 

Sounds good. I'll do that.

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My doc recommended Culturelle or Lactinex as the best probiotics when my daughter had a horrible time eating after being on antibiotics. I guess a lot of probiotics are killed by stomach acid before they even reach the intestines. You can ask for culturelle or lactinex at any pharmacy. It isn't a script, but they need to keep it refrigerated. I would try that. If it doesn't work, you really need to get some scans done to rule out anything more serious!

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Thank you. This looks interesting.

 

You're very welcome. My understanding (from friends who are on it) is that if you decide to give it a try, you really should buy the book. It apparently explains all the steps much more clearly than the website does. But the website should help you determine if it sounds like something that might be right for you.

 

I know the general idea is that in the first phase, you limit yourself to *very* few foods which are not (generally) allergenic and are very very easy for the body to digest. In that way, you allow your digestive system to rest and begin to repair itself. Gradually, you add foods back and see how your body reacts.

 

It sounds hard, but I've been thinking about trying it myself. I have some digestive "issues" which are definitely related to gluten. Eating anything with gluten makes it so much worse, but eliminating gluten doesn't seem to get rid of the problem 100%. So I'm not sure what else is going on. I know that I felt great and didn't have this problem when I adhered to The Primal Blueprint, so I may go back to that, or I may try GAPS, not sure. GAPS does emphasize the "healing" more - with mineral-rich bone broths and probiotics and fermented foods and such - while I think Primal is good for maintenance.

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Have you been tested for Lactose Intolerance? Just the regular allergy testing will not find it. You have to take a special 5 hour test at a lab?

 

I had gut issues, horrible, gut issues, until my Gastro doctor finally tested me for Lactose. The test is similar to the one you take when you are pregnant for diabetes, except instead of drinking Glucose, you drink Lactose. They then draw your blood every so many hours to watch what your Glucose is doing. If it stays the same, you have issues with Lactose, if it goes up, you are fine with lactose.

 

Doing this test changed my life.

 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003500.htm I had the blood testing version of this test. Really, my doctor tested me for every allergy, for gluten, and did an upper and lower GI finding nothing. Lactose was it, after that test, I limit my lactose intake and my bathroom issues are gone. Start eating lactose again and I am running back to the bathroom

 

I never thought such a simple disorder could cause so much trouble.

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The blood tests for celiac disease can be inaccurate. False negatives are not uncommon. A small intestine biopsy is the "gold standard" for diagnosing celiac disease, but it is not foolproof either. A doc cannot possibly biopsy every area of the feet and feet of small intestine. There are also people who are gluten sensitive but do not exhibit small intestine damage. The best way to determine if an individual's problems are caused by gluten (IMO) is to remove gluten completely (being very, very careful about cross contamination and hidden sources) for a period of time (at least a few weeks) and then reintroduce it. See how you feel before, during and after. That, to me, is the true test.

 

There is also a lab (Enterolab) which does stool testing and genetic testing for gluten sensitivity. It is not widely accepted in mainstream medicine, but all of my family had the testing done a few years back, and it was very accurate in identifying those who had gluten issues. Celiac disease runs in my family very heavily so I was already aware of these issues.

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Food goes right through me without being worked on very much by my digestive system.

 

This might be dumb, but are you chewing properly. It is a very difficult thing to do when you aren't concentrating purely on chewing, which is a boring thing to concentrate on so I mostly don't.

 

Rosie

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:blushing::blushing::blushing: Let's just say that I can often tell what I've eaten in the past by looking in a porcelain bowl.
Food goes right through me without being worked on very much by my digestive system.

 

I was having a lot of problems with diarrhea until I went on a 2 month parasite treatment. It got tons better afterward. But then my immune system was very weak and I've been sick non-stop (sinus infection and throat infection and then pneumonia) for the last 2 months. I have the diarrhea back again but I think that might be helped with high powered probiotics - at least I hope. Rhea- I'll look for the ones you mentioned.

 

I also went through a gallbladder detox. (I'm thinking I might need that for longer.)

The bolded sounds like what happens to me. I've got a hyperthyroid. Have yo had your thyroid checked?

 

I've got a friend that swore she had celiac disease but it turned out her well was bad - arsenic in the water. Have your water tested if you have a well. Not necessarily for arsenic, any contaminant could give those symptoms.

 

All also echo TwinMom1 about lactose intolerance.

 

Do you see any blood? Could it be colitis? What about crohn's diesease?

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The bolded sounds like what happens to me. I've got a hyperthyroid. Have yo had your thyroid checked?

 

I've got a friend that swore she had celiac disease but it turned out her well was bad - arsenic in the water. Have your water tested if you have a well. Not necessarily for arsenic, any contaminant could give those symptoms.

 

All also echo TwinMom1 about lactose intolerance.

 

Do you see any blood? Could it be colitis? What about crohn's diesease?

 

I am hypothyroid. I take natural thyroid medicine.

 

I have had metabolic testing and show too high levels of aluminum and mercury.

 

No blood. I should note too that this doesn't happen all the time, every day. I will have normal BMs many days (not constipated) and then will have a day or two of diarrhea. It could be that the parasites were not totally eradicated and are making a comeback. . .

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