August 6, Hiroshima

[pqr]

65 years ago today.

[Mejane]

A tragic and horrible day.

[mammaruss]

Does anyone have any books that they would recommend?? Ds10 wants ti read up on this event in history. TIA!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Eleanor Coerr

[mammaruss]

Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Eleanor Coerr

 

Thanks, Jean!

[elizabeth]

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=74-0679721037-0

Hiroshima by John Hersey.

This was part of our reading list for just war theory. If anyone would like the others let me know and I will list them.

[plain jane]

Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Eleanor Coerr

 

Oh man. That book is a tear jerker. :crying: We listened to the audiobook while I was driving. Not a good idea. :tongue_smilie:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

65 years ago today.

 

My oldest son is at the Japanese National Scout Jamboree this week. Aug 6th was designated as Peace Day, with several observances and activities scheduled.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing his impressions.

[Crissy]

Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Eleanor Coerr

 

Oh, gosh. Jeffrey read that book in 5th or 6th grade. He cried for over an hour, then he asked me to remove that book from the house.

 

It's just such a difficult topic to cover with children...

[poodlemama]

"Fat man and Little Boy" is the movie about the making to the A bomb. Excellent movie and very accurate on the details (although John Cusak's character is based on a few different people). Some adult content though (how could there not be!). Our family visited the Trinity Site in New Mexico this year. It's only open two days a year. It was truly nauseating to be inside the little house when they built the bond.

 

Lindsey

[Pink Fairy]

A tragic and horrible day.

 

Yes, very sad indeed. :crying:

[Brenda in FL]

I just saw a great movie about Nagasaki that I wanted to share - now's a good time. It's called Rhapsody in August directed by Kurosawa.

 

It takes place in the present and centers around grandchildren visiting their grandmother who survived the bombing and the stories she tells the children - It's much more than that though as it involves the attitudes of the parents and their American family in Hawaii as well as they all try to understand what it was like to survive the war.

 

If you watch it with your young children, you might want to stop the movie at the memorial service (The rose and the ants scene). It's just a more happy ending. I don't want to give away the ending - so that's all I'll say.

 

There was nothing questionable about the content at all - but it does have subtitles - so your kids have to be able to read.

 

It's available on netflix but not instant play.

[mcconnellboys]

Shin's Tricycle is a picture book but also very sad. It's not for little children, definitely....

[pqr]

A tragic and horrible day.

 

Very true but nevertheless one that was necessitated by another "day that will live in infamy."

[poodlemama]

Very true but nevertheless one that was necessitated by another "day that will live in infamy."

 

Somewhat up for debate. None the less a choice I am certain must have been very painful to make

[elizabeth]

I have a question. What was the point of posting this at all? Food for thought since you call yourself a gentleman and purport to be raising your sons to behave as such. Did it ever, ever cross your mind that there might be people on this board for whom this is a very painful and personal subject ? Given what happened in this country with the internment camps after Pearl Harbor does it ever seem that maybe discretion is the better part of valor? It certainly appears that the post was meant to stir a hornets nest .

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know that it is such a taboo subject. I grew up in Japan and no one I knew ever shied away from talking about it - and they were not anti-US either, though I'm sure there are a variety of opinions on the matter. There was a memorial there in Hiroshima (yesterday now) which was attended by representatives of the US this year as well as some European countries. The memorial service is purposefully a forward - looking one that looks to the future.

[Crissy]

It certainly appears that the post was meant to stir a hornets nest .

 

I didn't get that impression at all. August 6 is the anniversary of a significant historical event, and one that I believe should be recognized, remembered and discussed.

[elizabeth]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38580021/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

The very thought that this post was meant to remember, discuss and or debate the propriety versus expediency of Truman's decision or to illuminate the finer points of just war theory when pushed to its logical conclusion with nuclear weaponry is just not apparent to me. But maybe I am obtuse.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I didn't get that impression at all. August 6 is the anniversary of a significant historical event, and one that I believe should be recognized, remembered and discussed.

 

 

August 6, 1890 was the first execution by electric chair which was a horrible event and took two throws of the switch and eight minutes for william Kemmler, a convicted murderer, to die. Also a significant historical event.

[Aggie]

August 6, 1890 was the first execution by electric chair which was a horrible event and took two throws of the switch and eight minutes for william Kemmler, a convicted murderer, to die. Also a significant historical event.

 

I wonder how long and with how many swings of the hatchet it took him to kill his wife?

[Audrey]

Very true but nevertheless one that was necessitated by another "day that will live in infamy."

 

 

Two crimes don't make a right.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I wonder how long and with how many swings of the hatchet it took him to kill his wife?

I think I'll borrow Audrey's line: Two crimes don't make a right.

[pqr]

I have a question. What was the point of posting this at all? Food for thought since you call yourself a gentleman and purport to be raising your sons to behave as such. Did it ever, ever cross your mind that there might be people on this board for whom this is a very painful and personal subject ? Given what happened in this country with the internment camps after Pearl Harbor does it ever seem that maybe discretion is the better part of valor? It certainly appears that the post was meant to stir a hornets nest .

 

 

I mentioned it as a reminder of that day. Truth be told I had almost forgotten the anniversary, but I did discuss it with my children and we spoke of both sides and how in the final analysis it was deemed necessary in order to end the war. We discussed how this decision did save the lives of American servicemen, incidentally it probably saved Japanese lives as the death toll in a full invasion of the Home Islands would have been unimaginable (need I remind you that even after both bombs had been dropped there was an attemnpted coup by fanatical Japanese officers who still refused to accept surrender).

 

As to the topic being painful, other posters have mentioned that it is discussed in Japan and that the US ambassador attended the commemoration this year, so I fail to see your point. Tell me is the US ambassador not a gentleman because he attended the commemoration? (At least 10 US POWs died in the blast)

 

Would you have the date forgotten, the lives of those lost simply a footnote? How is a reminder of a date on a discussion board stirring up a hornets nest? (The original post was 7 words offering no opinion.) As to raising my children I would never raise them to be so obtuse as to ignore such a date or to forget the incredible pain and suffering caused by war. I would also never raise them to avoid discussing US history simply because a few might find their nation's past disreputable.

 

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." E. Burke 1729-1797

Edited August 7, 2010 by pqr

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I have a question. What was the point of posting this at all? Food for thought since you call yourself a gentleman and purport to be raising your sons to behave as such. Did it ever, ever cross your mind that there might be people on this board for whom this is a very painful and personal subject ? Given what happened in this country with the internment camps after Pearl Harbor does it ever seem that maybe discretion is the better part of valor? It certainly appears that the post was meant to stir a hornets nest .

 

If we stopped mentioning, posting or printing on a calendar every holiday or historic event that someone finds (or could find) painful or offensive we would have nothing left to print and would have to remove plenty of dates from our timelines.

[elizabeth]

The post was glib and there was no reason not to make your opinion clear that you think it important to commemorate as you believe the use of nuclear weaponry was the proper course of action. The level of discourse on the important subject of just war and even moreso the use of nuclear weapons is as expected, dismissive and superficial. It is not the fact that the date was mentioned but the nationalist superiority that undergirds every single post that is to me unseemly. Here is a link for those who wish to know more about nuclear warfare http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Effects/index.shtml

[OnTheBrink]

Wasn't it Susan who said if you don't like a topic, don't read the thread? Surely by the title, it could have been easily surmised that this thread was about Hiroshima. If the topic is that painful, why open the thread?

 

And, since it's apparently heinous to simply state that today marks the 65th anniversary of an historical event, should we never talk about the holocaust? The crusades? WWI? WWII? Civil War? Vietnam? etc?

 

The event is part of world history. Ignoring its existence is far more dangerous than discussing it.

[pqr]

The post was glib and there was no reason not to make your opinion clear that you think it important to commemorate as you believe the use of nuclear weaponry was the proper course of action. The level of discourse on the important subject of just war and even moreso the use of nuclear weapons is as expected, dismissive and superficial. It is not the fact that the date was mentioned but the nationalist superiority that undergirds every single post that is to me unseemly. Here is a link for those who wish to know more about nuclear warfare http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Effects/index.shtml

 

 

The post was 7 words mentioning a world changing event, nothing more.

 

Where in those 7 words did you see "nationalist superiority"?

[cin]

Wow. Remembering a national event has become such a powder keg. Maybe we should just forget Pearl Harbor, Nagasaki, World Trade Center, The Winter at Valley Forge, Gettysburg, etc. since they all have opposing sides.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I mentioned it as a reminder of that day. Truth be told I had almost forgotten the anniversary, but I did discuss it with my children and we spoke of both sides and how in the final analysis it was deemed necessary in order to end the war. We discussed how this decision did save the lives of American servicemen, incidentally it probably saved Japanese lives as the death toll in a full invasion of the Home Islands would have been unimaginable (need I remind you that even after both bombs had been dropped there was an attemnpted coup by fanatical Japanese officers who still refused to accept surrender).

 

As to the topic being painful, other posters have mentioned that it is discussed in Japan and that the US ambassador attended the commemoration this year, so I fail to see your point. Tell me is the US ambassador not a gentleman because he attended the commemoration? (At least 10 US POWs died in the blast)

 

Would you have the date forgotten, the lives of those lost simply a footnote? How is a reminder of a date on a discussion board stirring up a hornets nest? (The original post was 7 words offering no opinion.) As to raising my children I would never raise them to be so obtuse as to ignore such a date or to forget the incredible pain and suffering caused by war. I would also never raise them to avoid discussing US history simply because a few might find their nation's past disreputable.

 

"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." E. Burke 1729-1797

 

A great way to approach it with your kids, Pqr.

[pqr]

A great way to approach it with your kids, Pqr.

 

 

Thank you.

[elizabeth]

Wasn't it Susan who said if you don't like a topic, don't read the thread? Surely by the title, it could have been easily surmised that this thread was about Hiroshima. If the topic is that painful, why open the thread?

 

And, since it's apparently heinous to simply state that today marks the 65th anniversary of an historical event, should we never talk about the holocaust? The crusades? WWI? WWII? Civil War? Vietnam? etc?

 

The event is part of world history. Ignoring its existence is far more dangerous than discussing it.

 

Perhaps my post was not clear. I have no problem with mention and discussion from all points of view on this and other painful topics. The manner in which this thread started was glib and seemingly non commital regarding the propriety of using nuclear weapons. The upshot is that the US was correct in using the bomb and frankly, no apologies needed for that action resulting in deaths in the hundreds of thousands from fallout. Basically if you are of the rah rah bomb the helll out of the enemy and remember our victory it is not appropriate to post where there are a mix of ethinic groups and nationalites. I hope that clarifies my position. Unless you are posting to say it is a day to recall the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagaski it is in poor taste.

[OnTheBrink]

I think you're reading an awful lot into 7 words.

[mcconnellboys]

It need not be a powder keg save that we seem to harbor a group here who attempt to randomly latch on to a word or phrase here or there and turn it into some sort of political commentary opposing left against right.

 

Perhaps a separate board for political discussion would be in order so that the rest of us could spend our time here discussing issues that have to do with educating our children, rather than wasting time in political bickering that isn't going to result in anyone changing their party affiliations....

[hornblower]

elizabeth - I understand what you're saying & ITA.

Edited August 7, 2010 by hornblower

[elizabeth]

I think education is so obviously and clearly political that it seems odd to consider it otherwise. Plato, Aristotle, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Albert The Great, John Taylor Gotto, Susan Wise Bauer, and Alfie Kohn all have put forth theories about how to educate, what to educate with and why to educate in a certain manner, all of which reflects their political philosophy.

In terms of the board being a "harbor" for individuals that express divergent opinions from the marketplace of ideas, that would seem to resonate with the ideals of a classical education in a democracy.

[pqr]

Perhaps my post was not clear. I have no problem with mention and discussion from all points of view on this and other painful topics. The manner in which this thread started was glib and seemingly non commital regarding the propriety of using nuclear weapons. The upshot is that the US was correct in using the bomb and frankly, no apologies needed for that action resulting in deaths in the hundreds of thousands from fallout. Basically if you are of the rah rah bomb the helll out of the enemy and remember our victory it is not appropriate to post where there are a mix of ethinic groups and nationalites. I hope that clarifies my position. Unless you are posting to say it is a day to recall the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagaski it is in poor taste.

 

 

No, it clarifies nothing. How do you read all this into 7 words? It appears that you are looking for a debate.

By the way on the 9th it will be 65 years from the bombing of Nagasaki is that also stirring a hornet's nest or is it simply a historical fact?

[PineFarmMom]

Perhaps my post was not clear. I have no problem with mention and discussion from all points of view on this and other painful topics. The manner in which this thread started was glib and seemingly non commital regarding the propriety of using nuclear weapons. The upshot is that the US was correct in using the bomb and frankly, no apologies needed for that action resulting in deaths in the hundreds of thousands from fallout. Basically if you are of the rah rah bomb the helll out of the enemy and remember our victory it is not appropriate to post where there are a mix of ethinic groups and nationalites. I hope that clarifies my position. Unless you are posting to say it is a day to recall the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagaski it is in poor taste.

 

Yeah, I can TOTALLLLY see where you pulled all of that out of his little post. :lol:

[elizabeth]

No, it clarifies nothing. How do you read all this into 7 words? It appears that you are looking for a debate.

By the way on the 9th it will be 65 years from the bombing of Nagasaki is that also stirring a hornet's nest or is it simply a historical fact?

 

Please reread my post . Your subsequent posts on the topic make perfectly clear your intent in posting and your strong nationalistic/colonial leanings are obvious to anyone who has bothered to read your posts over the years. I specifically said that

"It is not the fact that the date was mentioned but the nationalist superiority that undergirds every single post that is to me unseemly. Here is a link for those who wish to know more about nuclear warfare http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Effects/index.shtml "

I have no quarrrel with the fact that we see foreign policy and war theory in radically divergent ways. Rather the subtext of your opening statement in which the tragedy of it all is not mentioned that is disturbing. Yes it is an important historical date and an unspeakable tragedy for those who care about nuclear weaponry and just war. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Please reread my post . Your subsequent posts on the topic make perfectly clear your intent in posting and your strong nationalistic/colonial leanings are obvious to anyone who has bothered to read your posts over the years. I specifically said that

"It is not the fact that the date was mentioned but the nationalist superiority that undergirds every single post that is to me unseemly. Here is a link for those who wish to know more about nuclear warfare http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Effects/index.shtml "

I have no quarrrel with the fact that we see foreign policy and war theory in radically divergent ways. Rather the subtext of your opening statement in which the tragedy of it all is not mentioned that is disturbing. Yes it is an important historical date and an unspeakable tragedy for those who care about nuclear weaponry and just war. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with...The fact that it happened or the fact that someone observed that a historical anniversary occurred. I'm not sure that there is a subtext to a statement of fact. Sometimes a statement is just that-a statement. It really has become the thought police around here when someone can't make a simple statement without accusations flying and assumptions being made. I guess I'll go check and see if that OP has a flag waving smiley or a big yellow face yelling woo hoo-that would be subtext.

[pqr]

Please reread my post . Your subsequent posts on the topic make perfectly clear your intent in posting and your strong nationalistic/colonial leanings are obvious to anyone who has bothered to read your posts over the years. I specifically said that

"It is not the fact that the date was mentioned but the nationalist superiority that undergirds every single post that is to me unseemly.

 

I have no quarrrel with the fact that we see foreign policy and war theory in radically divergent ways. Rather the subtext of your opening statement in which the tragedy of it all is not mentioned that is disturbing. Yes it is an important historical date and an unspeakable tragedy for those who care about nuclear weaponry and just war. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

 

I would have thought that the tragedy of the loss of life should be obvious to all, to have stated it would have been to state the obvious.

 

By the way just where is this "subtext" I would like to read it. I am still waiting for you do actually demonstrate the "nationalist superiority" that you see in "every single post"

 

Finally, as to my "intent in posting" I knew that you were a lawyer but a mindreader too? I do appreciate your clarifying MY thoughts and MY intentions for ME.

 

I posted simply to note an extremely important date in history, one that changed the world in which we live, that was the intent.

Edited August 7, 2010 by pqr

[rookie]

Please reread my post . Your subsequent posts on the topic make perfectly clear your intent in posting and your strong nationalistic/colonial leanings are obvious to anyone who has bothered to read your posts over the years. I specifically said that

"It is not the fact that the date was mentioned but the nationalist superiority that undergirds every single post that is to me unseemly. Here is a link for those who wish to know more about nuclear warfare http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Effects/index.shtml "

I have no quarrrel with the fact that we see foreign policy and war theory in radically divergent ways. Rather the subtext of your opening statement in which the tragedy of it all is not mentioned that is disturbing. Yes it is an important historical date and an unspeakable tragedy for those who care about nuclear weaponry and just war. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

 

There must be some reason for your comments to pqr that are based on past postings. Your posts on this matter seem an over-reaction to a statement regarding a fact. It was the anniversary of Hiroshima.

 

I said the very words pqr used when starting a conversation with my dc. I too had a discussion with my dc about BOTH sides of the issue. We have been to the Truman library. Even there people learn about and get to record their opinions on BOTH sides of the issue. My dc could see how it was an awful decision to have to make and how either choice would have destructive consequences. We did not end the conversation with either imperialistic woo-hoos or self-flagelation.

 

I do not see how stating that it was the anniversary of Hiroshima makes a person pro-nuclear war even if that person thought that the use of the bomb in that particular moment was necessary.

 

Anyway, I am glad that we get to discuss these things. :001_smile:

[mammaruss]

65 years ago today.

 

 

I am just thankful for the reminder....I have been dealing with diabolical pain the last few days. This historic occasion truly slipped my mind.

Thank you for the post.;)

[PineFarmMom]

I do not see how stating that it was the anniversary of Hiroshima makes a person pro-nuclear war even if that person thought that the use of the bomb in that particular moment was necessary.

 

 

 

:iagree: I cannot imagine anyone would jump to that many conclusions if someone posted: "September 11, 2001, nine years ago today" or something of the like. It is a statement about an important and horrible day in history. Pearl Harbor was an important and horrible day in history as well, and I doubt anyone would assume the worst about that.

[rookie]

Elizabeth....

 

Are you ruffled by pqr's original post because:

 

pqr did not condemn the USA's actions?

 

OR

 

because pqr did not give it the detail and tone he (I am assuming "he" - don't know why) gave his Pearl Harbor memorial post and you are assuming it is because he cares more about dead Americans than dead Japanese?

 

OR

 

because you take the position that if a person is not entirely on the side of "it was evil for the US to drop the bomb" and may see two sides to the issue they must be imperialists?

 

OR

 

you are one of those people who have no problem with the US being criticized/held accountable but every other country gets a pass? I mean, would you have been as aggravated if on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor pqr would have only stated that it was the anniversary of Pearl Harbor? Would you have carried on about how he must not care about the Americans who died there and how they were wholesale murdered by the imperialistic Japanese who were convinced that they were superior to Americans and all other Asians too?

 

 

I just don't get it.

[Audrey]

Yeah, I can TOTALLLLY see where you pulled all of that out of his little post. :lol:

 

 

I think it may be less the message than the messenger.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think it may be less the message than the messenger.

 

Then she needs to put the messenger on "ignore", and not attack him with accusations of a subtext which he did not give.

[elizabeth]

Then she needs to put the messenger on "ignore", and not attack him with accusations of a subtext which he did not give.

 

Very true but nevertheless one that was necessitated by another "day that will live in infamy."

__________________

If that statement means something other than a conclusion that the bombing was justified I stand corrected.

[pqr]

Very true but nevertheless one that was necessitated by another "day that will live in infamy."

__________________

If that statement means something other than a conclusion that the bombing was justified I stand corrected.

 

 

None of the above was part of your initial diatribe and my views on the bombing are not the issue here, indeed despite your accusations they were never part of any subtext in the original post.

 

You read volumes into a 7 word post that did not have any intention other than to remind others of the day. Further you make accusations of "nationalist superiority" which you still can not reference and have ignored valid questions by other posters in a headlong attempt to turn this thread into some sort of debate on the bombing.

 

I reiterate I made the initial 7 word post as a reminder of a day whose impact still resonates.

[Quiver0f10]

I think you're reading an awful lot into 7 words.

 

No kidding. :glare: