Poll: If you qualified for Food Stamps, would you apply and use them?

[Joanne]

I just checked. We qualify. I can't tell you how pathetic that makes me feel. I briefly mentioned the topic to DH last night; he had no comment.

 

I *am*, however, thinking of getting registered/licensed as a daycare home again. My youngest student is under 6 and I still have afterschoolers. As a registered home in TX, I can get reimbursed for meals and snacks by the "Food Program" which is a government program designed to keep daycare costs lower and kids fed "well" and "healthfully" by reimbursing qualified homes.

 

That would invite the government into my home and open me up to "inspection" at any time. But it feels less like a charity/social program.

[GothicGyrl]

You bet your sweet bippy I would, in a heart beat and I'd use them for as long as they'd give them to me. AND I would NOT feel ashamed doing so, and neither should you Jo. You've busted your rump bringing your kids up from a horrible place, you've still got a lot of repairing to do and I see no reason why you should feel pathetic over that when you've overcome SO MUCH!!!

 

And you've also nothing to hide as far as the government is concerned. *I* know you, and I know you are running nothing but the best kind of care you can. If you need to, take the food stamps, take the registration for daycare and get r' done.. cuz I know you are that good and worth it.

 

:)

[mcconnellboys]

I think using that programming to help with your childcare needs sounds great. You're providing a service and it shouldn't be putting you in the poor house to try to do right by those kids.

 

I grew up around a lot of stubborn, proud people who wouldn't accept charity in any form, especially food stamps. Mountain folk tended to be that sort. I think I sort of carry a little stigma with me still about food stamps because of all that.

 

My family owned a great big 'ol country grocery store and serviced folks for several counties all round, so we were swimming in food stamps during the 70's. Thinking about them gives me a little anxiety, I guess. It makes me feel sort of hopeless.

 

I know that if I were trying to feed my children and needed that to help me, that's absolutely what I'd do. I'm sure if I, myself, were starving and that was my only hope of eating then I'd probably do it, too. But I think I'd be out scrounging every day to try to find any sort of work at all that I could before accepting that kind of aid - just because of my background. I don't find it offensive that others use them at all, so please don't think I'm passing that sort of judgment, as that is not at all my intent.

 

I'm just trying to think through how it made me feel that my family dealt with such large amounts of food stamps in our business - not the monetary system itself, but the people who were attached to it. Many of them seemed to be hopeless, and they filled me with despair as a young teen. I think it's those feelings that make me want to avoid that system.

[Tap]

I didn't want to fall into the trap of assistance. I lived in a very poor part of the state and probably 25% of the town was on assistance of some kind at some point in their life. We saw people who said they couldn't get off of assistance because they would have to go backwards (in lifestyle) to go off of assistance. Meaning they would have less spending money, and food off of assistance.

 

We were able to eat and pay our bills, so we felt it was unnecessary.

 

That said, if there was ever a time that we had exhausted all of our own resources, lived very frugally, sold extra assets that we have, and we really, really needed it....I would consider it. I would sell almost every thing I own first, and work at whatever job I could get first, but under certain circumstances, in a very extreme case...I would consider it.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

I just checked. We qualify. I can't tell you how pathetic that makes me feel. I briefly mentioned the topic to DH last night; he had no comment.

 

I *am*, however, thinking of getting registered/licensed as a daycare home again. My youngest student is under 6 and I still have afterschoolers. As a registered home in TX, I can get reimbursed for meals and snacks by the "Food Program" which is a government program designed to keep daycare costs lower and kids fed "well" and "healthfully" by reimbursing qualified homes.

 

That would invite the government into my home and open me up to "inspection" at any time. But it feels less like a charity/social program.

 

See in my mind, you are what help is about. You are hard working people who are busting your buns to work hard and live respectable lives. If you were my friend in the real world (I consider you a cyber friend KWIM?)and I could talk frankly to you in person, I would say to take and use the food stamps, use what you can of the government assistance be it for food stamps or help in getting your child care kids food. The use of food stamps in no way a measure of what type of person you are, it may feel like to you that it somehow speaks what type of person you are, but that is wrong. The type of person you are is not measured by money, it is by how we live. I say this because I've read your posts, I know you are going through alot, and you used the wording that it made you feel pathetic, but I think of you as strong, determined and wise.:001_smile:

 

I do not think of it as charity in my mind, I think of it as keeping a family unit going until there lives settle down. I never used food stamps, but if life came at me and I truly needed them and it would keep my kids with healthy foods, you bet I would do it. I had a relative on food stamps, she traded hers with other people for liquor and cigarettes... So my relative was a yucko person who abused the system... you are NOT anything like that.

 

Why is it the hardest working people have trouble taking help? Well, because you are the type who pulls yourself up by your bootstraps and keeps going, but guess what? The bootstraps on anyone can break when the economy tumbles and health problems strike...

My advice as a friend would be to consider the food stamps, I think they are on a credit card type thing so they are not obvious. If you need the help, I say take it. Also I think the daycare idea sounds great! (you should charge more since you would be an educational preschool!)

Hugs and more hugs :grouphug:

[Tutor]

We qualify (have for many years) and don't use it. I would sell my possessions to help a neighbor in need before seeing them go on gov't assistance, either.

[Laura in VA]

You bet your sweet bippy I would, in a heart beat and I'd use them for as long as they'd give them to me. AND I would NOT feel ashamed doing so, and neither should you Jo. You've busted your rump bringing your kids up from a horrible place, you've still got a lot of repairing to do and I see no reason why you should feel pathetic over that when you've overcome SO MUCH!!!

 

And you've also nothing to hide as far as the government is concerned. *I* know you, and I know you are running nothing but the best kind of care you can. If you need to, take the food stamps, take the registration for daycare and get r' done.. cuz I know you are that good and worth it.

 

:)

 

I'm just curious as to why if you *hate* this country so much and would *love* to live anywhere else but here, why you would be so inclined to accept aid from the very government of the country you appear to despise?

[Scarlett]

You may have missed recent thread we had about this very topic (it was specifically about WIC)....I am astounded by the number of people who think it is wrong to accept that sort of help.

 

My answer is if I qualify and I need the help I would most certainly accept food stamps.

 

You mentioned the other day your family isn't making enough to cover monthly expenses. I wondered then if you guys would qualify for fs, but didn't ask in case it offended you.

 

I think to NOT accept such help when you really NEED it is false pride--at times veiled as moral superiority.

[Tutor]

You may have missed recent thread we had about this very topic (it was specifically about WIC)....I am astounded by the number of people who think it is wrong to accept that sort of help.

 

Just to clarify, I don't think accepting help when you need it is wrong. My family and I have accepted help on many occasions and we were very thankful to have it. My objection is to the government supplying the help. I do not believe it is right for the government to supply such help. I believe it is the job of the church and the community, and I am not willing to give the church or individuals a pass on helping their neighbors because there is a government agency there to do their job for them. I also feel that the government taking money from others by threat of force (i.e. if you don't pay your taxes you will go to jail) is the equivalent of stealing and therefore wrong.

 

If someone needs help, by all means take it. But take it from someone who cares for you and doesn't just throw money at you. The first is compassion, the second is socialism.

 

(Sorry. I'm a bit passionate about this. Can you tell. :D)

[klmama]

We don't need the assistance, thankfully, but if we did, I'd be glad it was there and use it. I remember all too clearly being young and broke, my paycheck not covering my very, very frugal lifestyle. Extra work still didn't cover the expenses. I ran out of savings quickly and had nothing left. I remember literally spending my last dollar, and after that bumming food off my friends for awhile until I was able to earn more. It was really quite humbling. If I'd known food stamps existed, or even food pantries or soup kitchens, I'd have been there in a heartbeat. With children to provide for, I'd be there even faster. Feel no shame, apply, and feed your family. That's why the money is there.

[GothicGyrl]

I'm just curious as to why if you *hate* this country so much and would *love* to live anywhere else but here, why you would be so inclined to accept aid from the very government of the country you appear to despise?

Because as long as I am living in this country, paying into the taxes of this country and working my rump off in this country, I will take advantage of what I can.

 

Hating something and knowing when you need something are two different beasts. I may not like it here at all and yes, given the money I'd be out of here in a hot minute; but that doesn't mean I'm some nazi-like anarchist that goes around challenging the government every chance I could. It doesn't mean I refuse to pay my taxes or do the things I am legally responsible to do, while living here. I don't like those things, but I do those things.

 

Mom always used to tell us, when we protested against doing chores-- "I don't care what you think about them or how much you complain about doing them, as long as you are doing what you are told while you are complaining". That's pretty much how I feel-- I may not like it here, I may want things drastically changed to make this country more likable, but I am also doing my part as a Citizen while I live here. I don't just throw my arms up and say "screw it I don't have to and they can't make me" because I know they can and will and do.

 

So I work, I pay my taxes, I follow the law, I do what a citizen should be doing. I just don't like it. But I do it.

 

Really, the two are not mutually exclusive. One can certainly hate something and know full well when they need something from that which they despise.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I missed the WIC thread, but I'm on the same page: Pete and I used WIC for two years when he was waiting tables, I was in grad school, my parents were ill, and we had two babies. It got us through a tough time. Now I'm paying taxes to support other moms who need WIC, which seems like a great thing to me.

 

SWB

[Antonia]

I'm just curious as to why if you *hate* this country so much and would *love* to live anywhere else but here, why you would be so inclined to accept aid from the very government of the country you appear to despise?

 

I'm obviously not GG so you may not want my opinion, but I think one can dislike their government and still accept the services to which one is entitled. The taxpayers pay for the services after all, not the government, much as they would like us to think it is *their* money they are handing out.

[Laura in VA]

I appreciate your response. As soon as I hit "Submit", I thought, "GG is going to belt me into the next universe!" :)

[Whisperlily]

There was one period of about 6 months where we recieved food stamps. We really needed them. We couldn't feed our family without them, and it was the most financially difficult time of our lives. We had plans in place that fell through. Solid plans, well-thought out plans, and they were delayed. In the meantime DH worked full time and I worked part-time from home. I have no regrets about using the help that was available for situations like ours. It wasn't a long-term solution, but it kept my kids from being hungry at a time when we didn't have other options.

 

Many other years we qualified and did not apply for food stamps or WIC. We were able to provide for our own family, everyone was well-fed and we didn't *need* them. It probably would have made things more comfortable, but it wasn't a true need.

 

If you are doing all you can, and you need help feeding your family, by all means, accept the help that is available. No child should go hungry due to a parent's pride.

 

Abuse of the system is something entirely different. Some people *need* long term help, and some are looking for a free ride.

 

I certainly don't think that *everyone* who qualifies *needs* food stamps.

[GothicGyrl]

My objection is to the government supplying the help. I do not believe it is right for the government to supply such help. I believe it is the job of the church and the community, and I am not willing to give the church or individuals a pass on helping their neighbors because there is a government agency there to do their job for them. I also feel that the government taking money from others by threat of force (i.e. if you don't pay your taxes you will go to jail) is the equivalent of stealing and therefore wrong.

 

I do so heartily agree with this. I think taxes are robbery, but another thread. But I did want to ask you something: I do agree on the whole Church/community thing should be helping out first before the government because that is what the bible declares you to do.

 

However, what are you or do you do with someone who is a non-believer? I've been declined and have seen people declined, services due to being of the wrong faith or not believing at all. I've also seen "communities" hold up lots more restrictions than the government has, for someone in need. How would one "regulate" this kind of behavior? Obviously, the bible does tell you to extend help to the people who need it most, but how would you, as a believer, prevent a church/community from extending too much "if we give you this, you must do this"?

[GothicGyrl]

I appreciate your response. As soon as I hit "Submit", I thought, "GG is going to belt me into the next universe!" :)

nah, I wouldn't do that. This isn't intended as snark or anything at all, but I've got bigger fish to fry, if you know what I mean. What you asked was a question I've been asked before and I don't take offense to it, even if it is sort of a circular argument, it's still a legit question (meaning, were I really one of those nazi anarchist people AND taking government help, I could see your point. Since I'm not, it was easy enough to answer without "belting" anyone :P)

[*anj*]

Joanne,

In your situation, yes I would.

I would do everything in my power to make it a temporary situation, but given the things that you've said about income and xh and health insurance...yes. I think that it was made for people like you, who work hard and are really trying, but just need some assistance.

[Joanne]

In an ideal world, this type of assistance would be handled on a communal level, but in reality most people don't have access to that type of communal support... and certainly not for an ongoing situation.

 

 

I also believe (can you tell I have strong feelings about this? ) that we, as individuals and as a society, have a moral (in my case religious) obligation to take care of each other.. and our imperfect social service network is one of those tools. I only wish *all* of the taxes we pay went to those and none to corporate welfare...

 

I agree. From a political and sociological perspective, I believe that people would be better served if nurtured and cared for under the umbrella of local support, information and assistance. Our system has grown far too complicated for that; but I do believe it was the intention of our Creator and also of the Founding Fathers to allow private, local organizations handle the needs arising from crisis and urgent living situations.

 

Your whole post was a blessing to me.

[Doran]

When we first arrived here, and learned we were pregnant with #1, I was panicked. We had been living off savings for four months, and had moved to a place with no connections and no jobs. The pregnancy was unexpected. We qualified for WIC, and I was grateful to have it. The same held true when we had our second child two+ years later. I will also add that I felt strangely shy and guilty about using these programs. My personal "stipulation" was that we would only use them until we could afford not to. Same for medical assistance for our children. They were helpful to us during a time when we needed that kind of support. But, we had no intentions of "mooching off the system" year after year. We knew we were working hard and were headed up and out of that. That's exactly what happened. Sounds to me like you're in the same circumstances, Joanne.

[Elaine]

You may have missed recent thread we had about this very topic (it was specifically about WIC)....I am astounded by the number of people who think it is wrong to accept that sort of help.

 

My answer is if I qualify and I need the help I would most certainly accept food stamps.

 

You mentioned the other day your family isn't making enough to cover monthly expenses. I wondered then if you guys would qualify for fs, but didn't ask in case it offended you.

 

I think to NOT accept such help when you really NEED it is false pride--at times veiled as moral superiority.

 

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. :)

[GothicGyrl]

OH! Jo I just remembered something. I know you and XH have a court order for child support/visitation and such. IF you take food stamps, they are(or might, down here they would) going to make you sign a "cooperation form" for Child Support. Bring your court order with you, especially the one showing that he is no longer covering the kids on health insurance.

 

Because.... the rules for qualifying for the two are different and you may actually qualify for both... because(heheh), the rules for foodstamps are MORE stringent than the rules for Medicaid and if you qualify for stamps, you will almost assuradly qualify for medicaid for the kids.

 

That's how it is in Florida. Foodstamps are such a hot issue here that if you qualify for them you most likely will qualify for medicaid. Check it out, they also may be able to help you with health insurance at least for the babes.

[Antonia]

You may have missed recent thread we had about this very topic (it was specifically about WIC)....I am astounded by the number of people who think it is wrong to accept that sort of help.

 

I think you took the comments in that other thread out of context. It veered off in a different direction because of a comment made by the OP. I was one of the people who said that the OP's dh should think about selling the camper if it would help his family, because it seemed that was an alternative the OP was looking at. I don't think anyone on this board would begrudge someone help if they needed it. I do believe that Joanne should apply for FS if she needs them, and use them if she qualifies for them. Now, if she added, "I have a rather large collection of jewels I don't really care about and could sell to raise some money, but my dh doesn't want me to..." I might have to rethink my opinion. fwiw...

[Laura in VA]

I'm sure you didn't mean it unkindly, but the tone of this bothered me.

 

Also, I don't think it is 'government' aid.. the government's money comes from the people... so issues with the government of the country shouldn't be a barrier to accepting aid from one's community... which is what welfare,etc are, only on a larger scale.

 

I think these programs exist, not just to benefit individuals (which is, imho, an intrinsically worthwhile purpose), but also because it benefits society as a whole to keep folks from falling through the cracks.... some food stamps now is better than trying to help a homeless family... or than the health care costs that come from malnourishment... it benefits us all.

 

I asked GG a question, and she answered it. I believe she knows I wasn't trying to be unkind. And, if you know GothicGyrl, she probably couldn't care less if I was! ;)

[Tutor]

Ideally what should happen is that someone within the church knows someone who is in need (the faith of the person in need should not matter) and helps that needy person personally or, if their supplies are not enough, goes to the church family and tells what the needs are so that they can be supplied. I understand churches being wary of people abusing their generosity, but I think they should err on the side of being taken advantage of rather than of not helping. This "being taken advantage of" can be held in check if the person in need has a friend, neighbor, or acquaintance in the church who observes and takes part in that person's life and can distinguish real need from greed or covetousness. I believe that the church, or any other private group offering aid, has the right to ask a person receiving help to work in exchange for the help (Scripture does say that if you don't work you shouldn't eat). However, this needs to be judged on a person-by-person basis. Thus the need for personal accountability through friendship. I think the plastering on of "friendship" by making someone attend a group or meetings with people they do not know is silly and pointless. If you are a non-Christian being helped by a Christian, I think you should be willing to accept the fact that someone is going to share Scripture with you since it is the reason they do what they do. It is their foundation. If I were helping you, for example, you may hear me mention those who don't work shouldn't eat (as you did above). You will be just as likely to hear me say "grace makes beauty out of everything" because I like U2 or get a huge helping of rice and beans or corn pone with a tall glass of sweet tea because I live in the South and don't have much money to buy groceries, but I will give you what I have ("'cause when all you've got is nothing, there's a lot to go around" - animated film Prince of Egypt). It just comes with the territory. Accepting help from people with faces and emotions and beliefs (whatever they are) is hard and awkward because it requires you to be humble in asking and receiving (trust me, I know and I don't like it). If a non-Christian doesn't want to receive a tract with their groceries or a prayer with their heating oil, they they need to find a secular group to assist them. I am sure, however, there will be something awkward about receiving help from them too.

 

I hope this answers your question. If not, re-ask and I'll try to answer it properly the next time. :)

 

As to your comment:

"I think taxes are robbery, but another thread."

 

I guess my hangup is, if you believe taxes are robbery, and taxes provide the financing for the assistance you are advocating, does that mean that you do not have a problem with receiving stolen goods? Why not just take what you need from the grocery store or wherever? Could you please explain how your reconcile this. This is one of the main reasons I have for being against government funded assistance, so if you could help me understand this I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[GothicGyrl]

Now, if she added, "I have a rather large collection of jewels I don't really care about and could sell to raise some money, but my dh doesn't want me to..." I might have to rethink my opinion. fwiw...

 

See, this is where I'd have to disagree.. I'm not talking about your example of "large amount of jewels" worths a fortune. But I am speaking of material possessions, like his camper.

 

The assistance program is just that, an assistance to what is already being brought into the house, to bring you up above poverty level. Material posessions should not count against you because they are only temporary and do not continuously bring in any money.

 

Look at it like this: A small stash of valuable jewels vs a camper. The jewels (depending on what they are, but let's say diamonds just for effect here :) ) when sold, could net a couple million right now. That's definitely something I'd complain about. But a camper? Nah, that only nets about $500 on this market. Enough to buy maybe two weeks worth of groceries (that includes all paper products and things needed for the house aside from food.. a generous offering, but not unreasonable for some here). What are they to do after that $500 is gone?

 

See where I'm gonig with this? The couple million those diamonds netted them is sustaining. They can put some in an interest bearing account, which would acrue over time, giving them a cushion. The camper though is an immediate sale that only lasts as long as the money is worth--in this case, maybe a month's worth of groceries.

 

So while I might say something about the jewels(what you said), that's apples to oranges in both cases because most people just don't have a stash worth that much, lying around their house. Likewise, the review process shouldn't be looking at assets like cars because in today's society, cars are almost a necessity. If we had better public transport, I might agree with you. But since public transit is pretty much non-existant in most places or very dangerous in others, why should one be penalized for using a "material posession" to get back and forth to work, rather than risk their life daily?

 

see what I mean?

[PariSarah]

I think it's a *bad* thing that the government has to do it. (Have you ever read Peter Maurin's Poem "Feeding the Poor at a Sacrifice"?)

 

But at least someone is.

 

Do your best--your honest-to-goodness best, not your I'm-tired-of-doing-it-so-I'll-call-it-my-best best--to take care of your own household. But if you can't, if you need help, take the help that's available to you.

[nrg]

you can use the savings to pay down debt, help your children, shorten the time through which you qualify for food stamps. Please investigate other assistance opportunities as well. Use the tools you are being given and some day you'll be on the other end of things and be glad to help. And you'll be gald of the stress reduction and the help to your family.

All the best.

[Scarlett]

I think you took the comments in that other thread out of context. It veered off in a different direction because of a comment made by the OP. I was one of the people who said that the OP's dh should think about selling the camper if it would help his family, because it seemed that was an alternative the OP was looking at. I don't think anyone on this board would begrudge someone help if they needed it. I do believe that Joanne should apply for FS if she needs them, and use them if she qualifies for them. Now, if she added, "I have a rather large collection of jewels I don't really care about and could sell to raise some money, but my dh doesn't want me to..." I might have to rethink my opinion. fwiw...

 

I don't see a huge distinction. I'm still astounded that so many people thought that other poster was wrong to apply for WIC before trying to sell the family camper. Nevermind, she never mentioned if it was an old paid for camper that might have fetched $500 or a $60K one that they were making huge monthly payments on.

 

If taking that approach, we could tell Joanne 'well, I would do it only after selling my 3000 sf house and moving into an apartment.' How dire the straights must be before we would accept help varies widely I imagine. And even those here who are so opposed to government help would probably change their tune if they didn't have family/neighbors/church willing to help feed their starving children.

 

How much money the government takes for taxes and what they do with that money is a political issue. Accepting help from that very government when we need it and qualify for it is a human issue.

[Antonia]

Again, I only mentioned it because it seemed the OP was making an issue of it. "My dh refuses to sell the camper..." as if *she* really wanted to to avoid going on aid for as long as possible, and he just wouldn't hear of it. Maybe it's me and that whole "husband as lord" carp I can't stand. Anyways, I refuse to disagree with you, my soul-sistah!

[GothicGyrl]

I asked GG a question, and she answered it. I believe she knows I wasn't trying to be unkind. And, if you know GothicGyrl, she probably couldn't care less if I was! ;)

Actually, Laura, I would. I'm not a meany head void of feelings, however, if I was offended by it, I certainly would have called you on it. :)

 

I guess my hangup is, if you believe taxes are robbery, and taxes provide the financing for the assistance you are advocating, does that mean that you do not have a problem with receiving stolen goods? Why not just take what you need from the grocery store or wherever? Could you please explain how your reconcile this. This is one of the main reasons I have for being against government funded assistance, so if you could help me understand this I would appreciate it. Thanks!

 

Ahh, I think you and I are seeing taxes from two different sets of minds/angles. For you, the government giving assistance is a bad thing as you believe, per your faith, that it should come from those within--for which we do agree. But you also see that taxes are there to help pay for these things like assistance and as long as you are paying taxes, one shouldn't feel ashamed for taking the assistance if needed--again, we agree.

 

But I was actually commenting on your "I also feel that the government taking money from others by threat of force (i.e. if you don't pay your taxes you will go to jail) is the equivalent of stealing and therefore wrong." , as my statement of "but I think taxes are robbery". In that, I agree with you here as well.

 

However, to further add to this: taxes ARE "robbing the poor and giving to the rich" so to speak, in that I don't full see my taxes being used as they claim they should be. Perfect example is the recently passed Amendment 1 I spoke about. Everyone passed this amendment because it stated on the ballot that "teachers jobs would be safe from this eventual budget cut"-- meaning, by passing it, budgets would have to be cut, but that teachers/cops/firefighters jobs would be safe from these cuts. They told all the voters that our taxes (and the lottery) were to be used to keep these particular jobs in place.

 

Here they are cutting thousands of jobs statewide--in the very areas they said they wouldn't touch, on the ballot--just so people can save $100 on their property taxes a year.

 

Point blank--they lied. And I am now being "robbed" on my taxes, the taxes with which I pay so that my DH and others like him WOULD have a job, only to find out it was all for naught. *I* am not going to benefit from this $100 savings because my particular property doesn't "qualify" for it. But because they lied on the ballot to get people to vote for it, my taxes are now being taken from me to pay these idiots their measly $100 and my DH and others like him are out of jobs.

 

Make sense now?

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I definitely think that if it will help you get back on your feet again and at the same time take care of the needs of your family that you should.

 

I know that there was a time when both dh and I were working and trying to make ends meet that we had to go to a food shelf for help. It was hard, but, there were plenty of times when we donated before and after that so I figured that's reaping and sowing. It's the same with fs, you pay taxes, so now is the time to reap the benefits of those taxes.

 

It sounds like you have a plan to open a daycare in your home. I think you'd be wonderful at that. If I ever was in the position of needing to leave my children in a daycare and work, I pray that there would be someone like you around to entrust them to.

 

Thinking of you!

[MJN]

food program and didn't feel like the government was "invading my privacy" at all. It turned out to be quite beneficial, financially and healthwise, plus the parents were thrilled that I *had* to offer their dc good meals. It forced me to learn how to cook good meals for my own family. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[GothicGyrl]

Again, I only mentioned it because it seemed the OP was making an issue of it. "My dh refuses to sell the camper..." as if *she* really wanted to to avoid going on aid for as long as possible, and he just wouldn't hear of it. Maybe it's me and that whole "husband as lord" carp I can't stand. Anyways, I refuse to disagree with you, my soul-sistah!

Ahh I see. I was mainly jumping off your post though, to demonstrate the difference between saying no to assistance when you are sitting on some serious money, and saying no to assistance when you could only pay for the groceries once, because of that one sale. Like Eliana said, how "down and out" does one have to be before anyone would "allow" them to take assistance without chastisment, kwim?

[Tutor]

I'm passionate too, but we see things a little differently.

 

I believe that in an ideal world, assistance would be handled on a communal level... but I believe we are *obligated* to help each other and that a just community will require that of all its citizens. It isn't about warm-fuzzies (though I certainly feel them!), our giving shouldn't be an 'I'm in the mood and I feel compassion right now' thing, it is a *duty* (imnsho).

 

Right now, the communal level organization are not set up to provide meaningful assistance for more than a one-time thing... help with a shut-off notice, with a dr's bill... not ongoing help (unless you count food banks and soup kitchens, etc, but that is really for a deeper level of need).

 

 

As I said above, I believe that safety nets benefit us all, even those of us who, G-d willing, will never use them.

 

Clearly we will never agree on taxes and government assistance programs, but I think we both share a passion for justice and compassion - and caring for those around us. ...and I think we have similar visions about ideal solutions... we juts take different approaches to handling the imperfect world we live in. :grouphug: I really appreciate hearing your perspective.

 

I also think that we should do it because we are obligated and not because it makes us feel good. (Ugh, the phrase "warm fuzzies" is like nails on a chalkboard to me, but we'll save that for another day.) I just don't think that obligation should take the form of a gun or a jail.

 

It is difficult to see how those in a society with as many belief systems as ours would voluntarily come together to serve others, but we do and we have done it in the past. The gov't systems we have in place now didn't really exist until the Great Depression (before that, private citizens and organizations carried the load) and now our attempts to corporately fund them through the government may lead to another depression. It makes no sense to me.

 

I also don't believe those safety nets benefit us all because their presence without the personal accountability to accompany them has caused many to be trapped in a life of reliance on such programs. That is not compassion.

 

You are right, we probably will never agree, and I do not believe that privatization is a magic answer either. (Jesus told us that the poor will always be with us.) But I do think that while we are in a world of imperfection, we should strive for perfection anyway, because that is where the hope lies. There is no hope in saying, "Well, individuals aren't helping (which I don't agree with btw) and the government system, although imperfect, is at least doing something." That's just defeatism and settling.

[Joanne]

It sounds like you have a plan to open a daycare in your home. I think you'd be wonderful at that.

 

Actually, no. I used to have one. I closed it in order to sell the house and move to FL. That move never happened; I divorced "instead". However, I got some after school kids back. More recently, I accepted as a student a sibling of a homeschool student and she'd "qualify" as a daycare client.

 

If I got my home registered, I could apply to participate on the food program.

 

food program and didn't feel like the government was "invading my privacy" at all. It turned out to be quite beneficial, financially and healthwise, plus the parents were thrilled that I *had* to offer their dc good meals. It forced me to learn how to cook good meals for my own family. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

I was part of it when I had my daycare. I've observed that a person's experience with it is often geographically determined and also very much tied to the supervisor who "checks" you. I had a great supervisor, who retired for medical reasons. Since I'll only be providing after school care and have only one child under 5, it should be relatively "easy".

 

I did the record keeping online and didn't find it cumbersome at all. It certainly helped offset the costs of operating a daycare; costs many people don't understand unless they have first hand experience with it.

[Kelli in TN]

We took WIC once, but it was under circumstances that we knew for a fact were temporary.

 

I think if I thought it was to be a permanent thing, I might think twice.

 

Or maybe not. I guess it would depend on why. Am I a widow with children to care for? Is my husband suddenly disabled? Did huge medical bills wipe out everything we have and everything we ever hope to have? Life is unpredictable.

 

Never say never.

[Jill- OK]

..."Qualify" doesn't always equal "Need"; I'm pretty sure many folks on the board have "qualified" at one time or another, but might not have "needed" it.

 

I can't say for sure what I would do if I qualified *and* needed it...but I wouldn't say that I'd never accept help of that sort. I'd do everything possible to avoid it, but I believe it's there for a good reason, and while I agree with those who believe the church/community should have that role...it doesn't always work out that way. So, gov't programs exist, and in certain measures, with certain limts, I support that.

[Pajama Mama]

We used WIC for a couple years and it was a blessing. My special needs child just had surgery to have a feeding tube put into his stomach. Our insurance(through dh work) was covering the formula. But ds was not keeping it down and the doc wanted him switched to another brand. Our insurance was "researching" the option and not paying for it. We could never have afforded the formula because it was about $1500 a month also it wasn't a commercial brand that you could buy at the store. So we gave him the formula that made him sick for a few days while we battled with the insurance people. Someone mentioned that with his disability, ds would qualify for WIC(he was 3 at the time). We went to the office and the folks from WIC had the new formula express shipped. We received it the next day. 5 months later our insurance approved the formula-sigh:rolleyes: I can't imagine what would have happened to our son if WIC hadn't helped us.

[Laura in VA]

Actually, Laura, I would. I'm not a meany head void of feelings, however, if I was offended by it, I certainly would have called you on it. :)

 

 

 

Ahh, I think you and I are seeing taxes from two different sets of minds/angles. For you, the government giving assistance is a bad thing as you believe, per your faith, that it should come from those within--for which we do agree. But you also see that taxes are there to help pay for these things like assistance and as long as you are paying taxes, one shouldn't feel ashamed for taking the assistance if needed--again, we agree.

 

But I was actually commenting on your "I also feel that the government taking money from others by threat of force (i.e. if you don't pay your taxes you will go to jail) is the equivalent of stealing and therefore wrong." , as my statement of "but I think taxes are robbery". In that, I agree with you here as well.

 

However, to further add to this: taxes ARE "robbing the poor and giving to the rich" so to speak, in that I don't full see my taxes being used as they claim they should be. Perfect example is the recently passed Amendment 1 I spoke about. Everyone passed this amendment because it stated on the ballot that "teachers jobs would be safe from this eventual budget cut"-- meaning, by passing it, budgets would have to be cut, but that teachers/cops/firefighters jobs would be safe from these cuts. They told all the voters that our taxes (and the lottery) were to be used to keep these particular jobs in place.

 

Here they are cutting thousands of jobs statewide--in the very areas they said they wouldn't touch, on the ballot--just so people can save $100 on their property taxes a year.

 

Point blank--they lied. And I am now being "robbed" on my taxes, the taxes with which I pay so that my DH and others like him WOULD have a job, only to find out it was all for naught. *I* am not going to benefit from this $100 savings because my particular property doesn't "qualify" for it. But because they lied on the ballot to get people to vote for it, my taxes are now being taken from me to pay these idiots their measly $100 and my DH and others like him are out of jobs.

 

Make sense now?

 

You quoted part of a post that was not mine. That second quote is not from me. And, I apologize if I painted you as a meany head void of feelings.

[Carol in Cal.]

Flat out.

 

Right now.

 

I wish you would.

 

I would be gladder to pay taxes if I knew they were helping you and people like you. That is the best use of them that I can think of.

 

Check into Medicaid, too. Another great use for my taxes. I mean that utterly sincerely, BTW--no snark at all.

 

Look, one of the argements for food stamps and WIC is that it is actually cheaper in the long run to have these than to pay more in Medicare or Medicaid later one. Kids who are well fed learn better and grow better as well. In the long run, they will pay more taxes because they will probably be more financially successful. Even those who may be huffy about giving this kind of help have to concede the dollars and cents points here.

 

But those are not the arguments that sway me, personally. The arguments that sway me are that no one should go hungry in this country, ever. That it is hard enough to get this aid that anyone who receives it clearly really, really needs it. Period. That 'inasmuch as ye do it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto Me.' That there are a lot of things that my tax money pays for that I wish it didn't, and that this redeems that for me, a lot. Really, you're doing us a favor if you take it.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

However, what are you or do you do with someone who is a non-believer? I've been declined and have seen people declined, services due to being of the wrong faith or not believing at all. I've also seen "communities" hold up lots more restrictions than the government has, for someone in need. How would one "regulate" this kind of behavior? Obviously, the bible does tell you to extend help to the people who need it most, but how would you, as a believer, prevent a church/community from extending too much "if we give you this, you must do this"?

 

When we looked for a church, we were quite disappointed. We decided not to attend. Eventually we moved, had kids, and thought we'd try again. It seemed like the place we wanted was a fantasy world place. We found it. It isn't perfect, but it is real. The way the people there operate and think is based on help others period. No strings to attend our church. No listening to something religious before helping. We simply strive to help anyone who needs it. It saddens me to no end the amount of condescension and exclusiveness that exists in the religious society. That truly is not how it should be IMHO. I hate all that stuff. How do we deal with that? We just go out and help. In the poorer areas of our church home. We hand out food for no reason. We really try to do right by others. I so wish everything were that way.

 

We talk about making sure that when we are helping, we are doing it without conditions. We really do not want to make anyone feel uncomfortable about receiving something that they need. We just want to help.

 

Thanksgiving this past year, we filled baskets with food for a nice meal including a turkey. We took them around to people who were in need. I am not sure where these names came from, but they were arranged by a group that helps in that way. We had extras so we took them to some families in the neighborhood of the church. They were Hispanic and didn't speak English. They kept asking "How Much?" Umm, it's for you for free. They couldn't believe someone would give them something for nothing. We are far from perfect. We have issues like crazy. But one thing we do fairly well is outreach from a no strings standpoint. Our minister embodies that really well. He doesn't ask any questions other than "How can we help".

[GothicGyrl]

Laura in VA:

Actually, I figured the seperation between the two was enough, I wasn't trying to quote something as yours :) And it's ok, I've been accused of being much worse ;)

 

 

snipped for one statement)

But one thing we do fairly well is outreach from a no strings standpoint. Our minister embodies that really well. He doesn't ask any questions other than "How can we help".

 

 

This was my point and it goes beyond "we are all sinners". If one is doing an outreach whether to the community or an individual, one should be doing so from the heart, from wanting to, and because that's what Christ would do. NOT from the standpoint of "you aren't like us" or "what can you do for us in return" or "I've given help before and been burned, now they've got to give to me" because that's NOT what Christ would do.

 

In theory, the church/community help, I agree with--I've used it, I've given it, I've helped with it. But rarely does it ever not come with something attached for the person receiving. And that's pretty much what I was asking about--how do you keep this in check?

[Mom2legomaniacs]

This was my point and it goes beyond "we are all sinners". If one is doing an outreach whether to the community or an individual, one should be doing so from the heart, from wanting to, and because that's what Christ would do. NOT from the standpoint of "you aren't like us" or "what can you do for us in return" or "I've given help before and been burned, now they've got to give to me" because that's NOT what Christ would do.

 

In theory, the church/community help, I agree with--I've used it, I've given it, I've helped with it. But rarely does it ever not come with something attached for the person receiving. And that's pretty much what I was asking about--how do you keep this in check?

 

 

As far as how to keep it in check, no simple answer. For me and the folks that I go to church with, we talk about it in every single instance that we are helping. We make a conscious effort to do that. We contact others in the community if it happens to be something we need more information on. We actively seek help to make those calls as far as how to help. And also to make sure that we are not helping when it is not wanted! That is important too. We see something and think, wow, we need to fix that! Well, maybe, maybe not. We try to do things in a manner that is not rash but one that is well thought out to make sure that we are doing the best we can.

I think to keep it in check involves constant re-evaluation and requires a lot of soul-searching and discussions. Does that make any sense?

[my2kidsmom]

The way I look at it is that dh and I have worked hard and paid taxes our entire adult life. If it got to the point where we needed assistance, then I would take it. My dh was laid off not long ago. Fortunately we did not qualify for food stamps because all you can't have more than 2K in saving. Of course, I would never lie to get assistance, but I know of people who have lied. That's really a shame too.

[GothicGyrl]

As far as how to keep it in check, no simple answer. For me and the folks that I go to church with, we talk about it in every single instance that we are helping. We make a conscious effort to do that. We contact others in the community if it happens to be something we need more information on. We actively seek help to make those calls as far as how to help. And also to make sure that we are not helping when it is not wanted! That is important too. We see something and think, wow, we need to fix that! Well, maybe, maybe not. We try to do things in a manner that is not rash but one that is well thought out to make sure that we are doing the best we can.

I think to keep it in check involves constant re-evaluation and requires a lot of soul-searching and discussions. Does that make any sense?

what you say makes sense for your church and maybe others. I mean no offense to anyone when I say this, but I guess for me, I would not like it if I had to take assistance from a church and be told that I had to "give" them something in return (and by that I DON'T mean "pay it forward", that's a perfectly reasonable request)

 

For example, baptising a child/baby. I know, theologically, there will be no two answers the same on this. However, for me, as a young mother, to be told that I cannot have my child baptised because I was "not a paying member of the church, did not have my own communion/confirmation, and had no intentions of doing either, AND the fact that my child was born out of wedlock" that my child was not worthy of baptism. EG: Were I to do any of those things, they would baptise.

 

Of course, I recognize this as doctrinal, but honestly, if someone comes to you pleading for help of any kind, no amount of "buts, do this, or don't get that" should be attached to it.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

what you say makes sense for your church and maybe others. I mean no offense to anyone when I say this, but I guess for me, I would not like it if I had to take assistance from a church and be told that I had to "give" them something in return (and by that I DON'T mean "pay it forward", that's a perfectly reasonable request)

 

For example, baptising a child/baby. I know, theologically, there will be no two answers the same on this. However, for me, as a young mother, to be told that I cannot have my child baptised because I was "not a paying member of the church, did not have my own communion/confirmation, and had no intentions of doing either, AND the fact that my child was born out of wedlock" that my child was not worthy of baptism. EG: Were I to do any of those things, they would baptise.

 

Of course, I recognize this as doctrinal, but honestly, if someone comes to you pleading for help of any kind, no amount of "buts, do this, or don't get that" should be attached to it.

 

 

I don't believe there should be strings other than to just take what you need. I hear you. I don't think we should give with conditions in that way. Not how it is supposed to be. We also shouldn't dictate the response. Someone not responding the way we want them to doesn't mean we don't help or that they aren't appreciative or needing it either. I agree with you.

[Audrey]

I absolutely think that if you qualify, there is no reason why you should not apply. Take care of yourself and your family, and d@mn the opinions of anyone else.

 

In other words, get your flame-proof suit on, Joanne. Because if this thread goes the direction of so many others in regard to social assistance, you are going to be barraged for even asking this question.

[Maria from IN]

"If a non-Christian doesn't want to receive a tract with their groceries or a prayer with their heating oil, they they need to find a secular group to assist them."

 

Wow, Tutor, I'm floored. I simply don't know what to say about that. Even as a Christian, I don't think I could ever agree with that.

 

Joanne, I remember some of the previous posts and the tough times that brought you to this point in your life. I have no doubt that you are the kind of person who would help someone else rather than take care of your own needs--in fact, you may be doing that right now. It's all about letting those you helped have the joy of helping you back, even if it is just through government programs.

 

I applied for food stamps and medicaid in August after a similar thread popped up and someone encouraged me to seek help. Long story short, ex husband hasn't worked in 4 1/2 years, I'm going to school, and I have a 13 year old. My son qualifies for both because he has no assets; I, on the other hand, don't qualify for either because I chose a Master's degree over $6 an hour. I asked for help because I knew without a Master's I couldn't make enough to feed us and send son to college in 5 years and pay off the student loans I have now. I hated the idea of having to depend on aid for the next 2 years while I'm getting my education, but I figured it was better to accept the aid now and get back on my feet rather than quit school and make $6 an hour and have to depend on it for the rest of my life, you know?

 

I suppose, however, even with the state of Indiana I was forced to "take the tract." The social worker assigned to my case actually threatened me with jail if I didn't tell the county I homeschool my son. I explained thoroughly that the county doesn't give two hoots about whether my son attends school, but she insisted because someone gave her misleading information. So I went to the county and told them that my son's aid (and my freedom) was dependent on whether I dragged my butt over there and told them I homeschooled my son, and they said, "But why? All that is handled by the state. All we can do is give you the website for registering your child."

 

I got the aid for my son, and he is able to eat better, including more nutritious meals that he can cook for himself while I'm at school, which lessens our dependence on Grandma.:) I'm thankful that it's there for us, and I'm thankful that you will be able to get some benefit from it too.

 

:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

[i The social worker assigned to my case actually threatened me with jail if I didn't tell the county I homeschool my son.

 

:ohmy:

 

I find that shocking. Who does she think she is? Wow.

 

My mom did what you are doing. She took aid for the years it took her to get a teaching degree. She never got rich of course, but just the other day I heard her bemoaning the amount of taxes she and my (step) dad have to pay. hee hee...