What if you don't like old testament stories?

[FourSweetBoys]

?

[vonfirmath]

Even in Sunday School, my son learns OT stories, so it would be difficult to try to pretend it did not exist. (though I get upset at their whitewashing sometimes. Someone "left the kingdom" instead of being killed. Etc!)

 

Jesus's coming fulfilled the OT, not cancelled it out. It's still the same God. We just live in an era of grace since the OT proves to us men can not get to God by their own actions (fulfilling the law -- only Jesus can do that)

[Jann in TX]

Now I view the OT as showing me that God is a God who loves His children--and who forgives them--a God who is patient even when His children do not learn from their past mistakes...

 

I view OT law as being written to prove that people (in general) just cannot keep them--so therefore people cannot gain God's grace by 'doing good' or by 'doing' anything else...God's grace is HIS to give freely.

 

I no longer see a God of wrath--but a God of justice.

 

I teach an elementary age Sunday School class. This summer we have been working on a series called 'Not so Famous People of the Bible'... many of our not-so-famous people have been prophets--the ones in the 400 years between Moses (exodus) and King Saul (and David). In this time Israel and Judah were in and out of bondage so many times it makes one dizzy to think about... they would repent--God would send a 'judge' who would deliver them--they would worship God for a generation then fall back on their 'worldly ways'... and the cycle begins all over again... God was (and is) faithful to deliver them--people, on the other hand, are just SLOW learners sometimes!

[flobee76]

Have you considered The Jesus Storybook Bible? It is a great story Bible that points to Jesus in the OT stories.

 

I agree with the PP, you can avoid the OT. The WHOLE Bible points to our need for Christ.

[lionfamily1999]

I don't want them to wonder "will God stick me in a big fish if I misbehave?"

It is very possible that you are viewing those stories from an unflattering angle. For instance, Jonah wasn't just swallowed by a whale because he misbehaved. He was swallowed because he ran from God. And, if you think about it (Jonah being such a short story, it's much easier to dissect, imo) he didn't even TRY to reach out to God until THREE DAYS in the fish's belly. That means, when the boat almost capsized, he still ignored God, he chose what should have been certain death rather than calling out to God?!? But, God SAVED him with the fish.

 

Now, imagine you're in the water at the beach (not even the middle of the ocean, just off the coast ;) ). You see a shadow in the water (oh God help!). You realize the shadow is coming towards you (oh dear God PLEASE help). You see that the shadow is a fish large enough to swallow a man whole and allow him to survive in its stomach (ohmyGodohGodpleasehelpme). The fish opens his mouth (holyFatherinHeaven) and swallows you. I'm sure you get my point ;) Even after all that (!) Jonah still refuses to turn to God. Not just that, but the thing that people point to as the 'worst' part (the big fish) is the thing that saved Jonah from his own stubborn self!

 

I think many of the OT stories are like this. We see them, we probably know them already, and don't really read them. There is a great deal of wisdom there, but it's so hard to see, because we think we already know.

 

Before you dump the OT, try to see it with fresh eyes :D

[FourSweetBoys]

As adults, we realize these things but can a child? And I wonder is there a reason preschool curriculum needs to be so immersed in the OT when it is the NT that applies to today. I was led to Christ by behold told about His love not "God's people didn't obey so He killed them". So why do we teach our kids that first? I just can't make sense of it.

 

And I certainly don't mind them learning OT stories here and there but to completely immerse them in it first doesn't sit well with me.

[Hunter's Moon]

In Sunday School, we learned the New Testament first.

 

We learned about the Old Testament when we were about 11 or 12.

 

Of course, we knew the main OT stories but the NT was our main focus until we were old enough to actually understand why things were done in such ways by God and others.

 

We were encouraged to read and ask questions about the OT at anytime, but I think learning the NT first was a better approach.

 

No child would understand why God chose Job to 'pick on' or why Jonah was swallowed by a whale so to go in-depth just doesn't make sense.

[The Girls' Mom]

The entire Old Testament points us toward Christ. Yes, there's a lot of ugliness in it, but if there wasn't, then what would be the point of sending us a Savior? The OT paints us a picture: of fallen man's sinfulness, his inability to live up to the law, of God's forgiveness, and yes His judgement. IMO the New Testament doesn't stand alone, it was never meant to. Why would we ever turn to Christ if we didn't know about God's wrath and judgement, and His means for redemption from that wrath? The OT is supposed leave a bad taste in your mouth, because only then can you really appreciate the sweetness of the work of Christ.

 

As adults, we realize these things but can a child? And I wonder is there a reason preschool curriculum needs to be so immersed in the OT when it is the NT that applies to today. I was led to Christ by behold told about His love not "God's people didn't obey so He killed them". So why do we teach our kids that first? I just can't make sense of it.

 

That's where you step in and explain these things as you read through them. I can understand not reading some of the really gory stuff to a preschooler, but many of the 'main' stories are important to fully have a grasp on the New Testament.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Apryl H

[FourSweetBoys]

Julie, I completely agree but I'm adult so can understand better. I value the OT and do apply the morals in everyday life. But it's not what's MOST important, KWIM? I feel like the loving side of God we see in the NT is a better way to introduce my children to the Lord. I feel like Jesus is the focus of my life and want my children to make Him their focus too.

[FourSweetBoys]

The entire Old Testament points us toward Christ. Yes, there's a lot of ugliness in it, but if there wasn't, then what would be the point of sending us a Savior? The OT paints us a picture: of fallen man's sinfulness, his inability to live up to the law, of God's forgiveness, and yes His judgement. IMO the New Testament doesn't stand alone, it was never meant to. Why would we ever turn to Christ if we didn't know about God's wrath and judgement, and His means for redemption from that wrath? The OT is supposed leave a bad taste in your mouth, because only then can you really appreciate the sweetness of the work of Christ.

 

 

But isn't that heavy stuff for a child?

[lionfamily1999]

Julie, I completely agree but I'm adult so can understand better. I value the OT and do apply the morals in everyday life. But it's not what's MOST important, KWIM? I feel like the loving side of God we see in the NT is a better way to introduce my children to the Lord. I feel like Jesus is the focus of my life and want my children to make Him their focus too.

Yes, but how far past the gospels are you going to go? I mean, the letters are meant for a mature audience. Noah and the ark though, that's a beautiful story if you look from the right angle ;) David and Goliath, a child triumphing over a giant, that's pretty appealing to young boys and a great way to break into the armor of God.

 

I think you lose so much of the 'fun' stuff for littles when you toss out Adam and Eve, Noah, David, Jonah.

 

All the same, I read fairy tales (the real ones) to my littles :p They are pretty tough and I can appreciate the lessons they teach my dc.

[FourSweetBoys]

In Sunday School, we learned the New Testament first.

 

We learned about the Old Testament when we were about 11 or 12.

 

Of course, we knew the main OT stories but the NT was our main focus until we were old enough to actually understand why things were done in such ways by God and others.

 

We were encouraged to read and ask questions about the OT at anytime, but I think learning the NT first was a better approach.

 

No child would understand why God chose Job to 'pick on' or why Jonah was swallowed by a whale so to go in-depth just doesn't make sense.

 

Stephanie, I COMPLETELY agree with this!

 

Flo, I will look into that bible. Thanks!

[FourSweetBoys]

Julie, I agree and my kids definitely know the story of Adam and Eve and Noah and the ark. I wouldn't not teach them stories from the bible but want to find curriculum that doesn't go into it every. single. day.

[The Girls' Mom]

But isn't that heavy stuff for a child?

 

I think these things can be explained on a child's level. We've read through the entire bible with our girls a few times now. We don't leave anything out. We do take the time to explain the tough parts, and always try to point out God's love for us, along with the heavy stuff. They get it, they really do. And it has given them a better perspective on this crazy, sinful world we live in. They've had to deal with some tough things in their lives, and if we had only given them "God is love", then they would be horribly unprepared for the times that things don't go well. It's a fallen world, and they have the perspective of knowing WHY it's a fallen world.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Do you believe that Jesus is God? He said, "I and my Father are one."

 

When you see the God of the Old Testament, you are seeing Jesus.

 

When you see the Christ of the New Testament, you are seeing God.

 

Do you know of anyone in your church who can discuss this with you? I've tried to be available to other Moms who are new to teaching Bible to their children, and I know my mother does the same in her church. Maybe your church has someone who can help you in that way.

 

I'm not sure how to word that any better. I mean, you need to find someone who sees the essential doctrines of the Christian faith in the Old Testament, and all the ways the OT points to Christ and prepares for the Kingdom. You need someone who can explain the significance of the Sermon on the Mount, and what it meant to people who were very familiar with the old law.

 

Not all children's Bible class teachers know these things, sadly. Some know, but they don't think children can understand so they only want to give an incomplete, watered-down gospel to the kids.

 

In my experience with my own children, I've learned that they can indeed understand these things, and they NEED to see how it all fits together.

 

I knew Bible stories, both OT and NT, inside and out when I was a child. My children get to study doctrine, as well, and they know and understand truths that I didn't even hear until I was an adult. I wish I could have learned more in-depth when I was a child. I knew all the stories but I had a lot of questions about them! I'm glad my kids get a chance to learn more when they are little than I did.

 

The apostle Paul said, "I did not shun to declare to you the whole counsel of God." My children learn best when I take that philosophy in their studies, as well.

 

Who am I to shield them from God? That is the opposite of my goal. I want to show them God.

 

I want to teach them that God is good, and whatever we need to do to understand how His goodness is shown in each account, then that is our responsibility. Our faith mandates that we start from the perspective that God does not sin. God is the definition of good, even in those scary OT stories.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Dulcimeramy

[Britomart]

I think these things can be explained on a child's level. We've read through the entire bible with our girls a few times now. We don't leave anything out. We do take the time to explain the tough parts, and always try to point out God's love for us, along with the heavy stuff. They get it, they really do. And it has given them a better perspective on this crazy, sinful world we live in. They've had to deal with some tough things in their lives, and if we had only given them "God is love", then they would be horribly unprepared for the times that things don't go well. It's a fallen world, and they have the perspective of knowing WHY it's a fallen world.

 

:iagree: That's so well-said. There's a lot of ugliness in the world; the world of the OT is the same world we live in now, and seeing that people - even God's people - can sin and have disasters happen to them prepares our children for real life. But for real life where there is still hope. And we can teach the OT slowly and carefully and, as others have said, show how all these stories point to Jesus. I'll second another poster who said that the Jesus Storybook Bible is really good for pointing out those connections between OT and NT.

 

Some parts of the OT feel like brick walls that I bang my head against. But the older I get, and the more I read it, the more I can understand it. I'm really glad my parents set me the example of reading the OT as well as the NT, otherwise I might have missed out on what feels like a whole half of my faith.

 

A book that might help you is "Christ in His Saints" by Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon. It's about how various saints (mostly from the OT, as I recall) point us towards Christ. Fr. Reardon's an amazing writer.

[Ginevra]

One more thing, is there a denomination that feels like this or am I just crazy? I think there is a lot to learn from the OT but feel like the NT Canceled out the OT and applies more to today.

 

Jennifer, I feel this way too. It's the reason I have rejected every "Bible curriculum" I thought I would use with my kids. Even as an adult, I despise a lot of the OT stories. :leaving: God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. What sense does that make to a child? (It makes no sense to me, either.) The people were bad, so God drowned everyone, even the animals who didn't have the good sense to line up for the ark. :confused: The Evil Egyptians had to be tortured and then, finally, all their firstborns had to die, so God could prove his point. :glare: I find all of those stories repugnant.

 

I don't know what the answer is. I just wanted you to know others feel similarly about the OT.

[elizabeth]

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&rlz=1I7GZAZ_en&q=the+illustrated+jewish+bible+for+children&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=3629687984118453175&ei=XXZHTKGLMIGBlAfAoKnBBA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=11&ved=0CEYQ8wIwCg#

I went with a Jewish childrens illustrated Bible enabling dd to understand the OT in a non- ethnocentric light. Only when you read it in its proper context as the history of God's relationship to the chosen people does it really come alive . When read merely as a precursor/backdrop to the NT you are literally stripping away its context and thus it will read as dry bones.

[sheryl]

We are Christian but I just do not feel right teaching my kids OT stories. They are violent and I feel like they portray God as a mean God to be feared. I don't want them to wonder "will God stick me in a big fish if I misbehave?". I guess it has to do with me believing that when Jesus came he canceled out the laws of the OT and I want my kids to see a loving, forgiving Jesus Christ before they learn about the OT if that makes sense.

 

So anyways, I've tried LHTH but stopped because I just couldn't take anymore of the OT stories. I've thought about MFW but that will have the same problem. I bought oak meadow K but my soon to be 5 yo is way beyond that. Is there any kind of bible curriculum based on the new testament? I ask this for my 10 yo also. I want them to really know God's love and forgiveness for them first.

 

One more thing, is there a denomination that feels like this or am I just crazy? I think there is a lot to learn from the OT but feel like the NT Canceled out the OT and applies more to today.

 

 

While I see your point, to a point ;), I have to tell you my 11 yo dd and I studied Genesis this past year when she was 10. It was awesome. OT is prophetic regarding Jesus. There is so much to learn from the OT. While it's true Jesus was the "perfect Lamb sacrifice" and G-d is loving and forgiving...God is also holy and sooooo much more. He is kind, patient and loving, but He will not violate man's "free will". Back on the topic...sorry.

 

When I read Genesis, I did see a loving G-d through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph. Joseph was God fearing....he was sold into slavery, but he chose to love his brothers still. Who but God could have put that in Joseph's heart. And, the list goes on.

[Crimson Wife]

God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. What sense does that make to a child? (It makes no sense to me, either.)

 

God is all-knowing and he knew that Abraham would not be required to go through with the sacrifice of Isaac. It's in the Bible as a foreshadowing of the sacrifice that God made of His only Son for the redemption of our sins. Many of the OT stories are foreshadowing of events in the NT. You need the background knowledge of the OT to understand what happens in the NT.

[jenn&charles]

I used to feel that way a very long time ago about the OT. I avoided a lot of those stories, etc. with my big kids. I avoided them myself. I didn't like them (other than the traditional kid stories like Noah, Moses, etc.) and couldn't understand how God could be, what was in my mind, "mean". Many of the things in the OT (as one poster put it) were repugnant. In all honesty, if I look back, I had not fully accepted God as who He is and criticized (in my mind) many of His actions in the OT.

 

However, with Otter (who, as a side note is "young" for his age), we have covered both the OT and the NT in detail. I have seen those stories impact his life and attitude (for the better). Yes, there is violence and sometimes God seems to be "mean" when He wants even children to be wiped out among enemies. I never understood this until I actually spent time getting to know Him. The only way I started understanding it was to spend time in the OT. It was like the entire picture became so much more clear to me. It was actually exciting and amazing!

 

 

I value the OT and do apply the morals in everyday life. But it's not what's MOST important, KWIM? I feel like the loving side of God we see in the NT is a better way to introduce my children to the Lord. I feel like Jesus is the focus of my life and want my children to make Him their focus too.

 

The OT isn't just about morals. I honestly don't think the NT can stand on its own. It is meant to be a whole with the OT. Jesus of the NT and God of the OT are one and the same. You cannot fully understand Him (I personally believe) if you leave out a part of Him.

 

I truly understand the desire to paint God as gentle and loving and merciful and peaceful...however, I really don't believe you are doing a child justice if you leave out "the rest of the story". God is a God of justice. And there are consequences for sin/rebellion. It's also amazing to see his provision for his people even when they so quickly forgot about him and rejected Him.

There is a reason for it and a reason why we have both. I do not take the view that the NT "cancels out" the OT. Yes, we are under grace now...but the OT is just as important (to me) as the NT. They are ONE book. Not two...

 

Who am I to shield them from God? That is the opposite of my goal. I want to show them God.

 

I want to teach them that God is good, and whatever we need to do to understand how His goodness is shown in each account, then that is our responsibility. Our faith mandates that we start from the perspective that God does not sin. God is the definition of good, even in those scary OT stories.

 

I agree with the above.

 

However, all that being said, a walk with God is a very personal thing. Someone could have told me 12 years ago that I should teach my children some of those really tough OT passages and I would have not agreed. We didn't spend a lot of time there.

I'm SO glad and thankful that that isn't the case now.

 

I am probably coming across as judgmental about your feelings towards the OT and that isn't my intention at all. We all have different areas we are working on as Christians and perhaps for your family, it's very important to focus on the more obviously tender and loving side via Jesus. Perhaps that is what drew you to Him and what will draw your children.

 

All I can do is share that for me and my kids, it was a mistake to "skip" the OT like it was some outdated book full of things we wouldn't be able to understand with violence and some ugly things I'd rather avoid.

 

BUT that's my walk, not yours. :) Sometimes I think God has us work on different things at different times in our lives.

Edited July 21, 2010 by jenn&charles

[Garga]

It is very possible that you are viewing those stories from an unflattering angle. For instance, Jonah wasn't just swallowed by a whale because he misbehaved. He was swallowed because he ran from God. And, if you think about it (Jonah being such a short story, it's much easier to dissect, imo) he didn't even TRY to reach out to God until THREE DAYS in the fish's belly. That means, when the boat almost capsized, he still ignored God, he chose what should have been certain death rather than calling out to God?!? But, God SAVED him with the fish.

 

Now, imagine you're in the water at the beach (not even the middle of the ocean, just off the coast ;) ). You see a shadow in the water (oh God help!). You realize the shadow is coming towards you (oh dear God PLEASE help). You see that the shadow is a fish large enough to swallow a man whole and allow him to survive in its stomach (ohmyGodohGodpleasehelpme). The fish opens his mouth (holyFatherinHeaven) and swallows you. I'm sure you get my point ;) Even after all that (!) Jonah still refuses to turn to God. Not just that, but the thing that people point to as the 'worst' part (the big fish) is the thing that saved Jonah from his own stubborn self!

 

I think many of the OT stories are like this. We see them, we probably know them already, and don't really read them. There is a great deal of wisdom there, but it's so hard to see, because we think we already know.

 

Before you dump the OT, try to see it with fresh eyes :D

 

This is where we are. I'm starting to see things in a whole new way.

 

For example, the whole "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" passage always seemed so mean. Until you realize that people aren't that fair.

 

Think about it: our government has provision for no cruel or unusual punishment. That's because people tend to like to become cruel or unusual when they mete out punishment. The "eye for an eye" was about God expecting there to be fair laws. Left to themselves, people end up chopping off your hand for stealing a loaf of bread. In God's justice, the punishment should fit the crime (pay back the price of the bread, plus extra). The "eye for an eye" was about making the punishment fit the crime and NOT BE WORSE than the crime. (If someone takes your eye, you can't go off and slaughter the person and their entire family.)

 

Noah and the arc--he built that ark for about 100 years (or some such huge amount of time) People knew aaaaall about it and made fun of him. Not a single person attempted to reach out to God and seek salvation. The people were utterly hard towards God. They wanted nothing to do with him. Yes, everything got killed...and yet God gave them decades upon decades to turn to him. They flat out refused.

 

You can stay away from the OT for now, but I would encourage you to check out the time frames for a lot of these stories. You'll start to notice that before some sort of horrible judgement falls on people, they're often given decades upon decades to repent (or in the case of Jonah, God kept him alive in there for the 3 days it took him.)

[Mama Geek]

I think what you are saying that you want to teach your children mercy without first teaching them what justice is.

 

That is like teaching calculus without first teaching addition and subtraction.

[Ginevra]

God is all-knowing and he knew that Abraham would not be required to go through with the sacrifice of Isaac. It's in the Bible as a foreshadowing of the sacrifice that God made of His only Son for the redemption of our sins.

 

I understand that, but it does not make it acceptable to me. There have been modern instances of people who believed their child would be better off in Heaven, or that God was asking the parent to "liberate the child" from this sinful world, by killing them. :angelsad2: I cannot see it as a loving act that at the last minute, God told Abraham, "Nevermind. Just testing." In my children's pictoral Bible as a child, the picture had a bound Isaac on the alter with his father pointing a dagger at him and an angel grabbing the hand of Abe from above. That image is burned into my brain.

 

Anyway...

[ma23peas]

Catherine Vos' A Child's Story Bible...the best narrative chronological read aloud for kids of all ages...I learned more about the OT than when I read the real thing...it's wonderful and 'edited' but in a natural good way.

 

Tara

[bookfiend]

Try the Child's Story Bible by Catherine Voss

 

Here is her excerpt from Abraham and Issac

 

Abraham said, "My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering." then went on together until they came to the place that God had told Abraham about.

 

There Abraham built an altar. He laid the wood on the top, all ready to burn. Then he took his dear son and tied him so that he could not get away, and he laid him upon the altar.

 

He must have told Isaac what he was going to do, and he also must have told him that he believed that God would raise him from the dead. Isaac was big and stong enought to struggle so that Abraham cound not have bound him against his will. But he, too, knew that he must obey God, and he must have trusted that God would take care of him."

 

Another thought is to read a Psalm a day. We did this last year, and I was struck FLAT by how many times God is identified as merciful, faithful, loving, quick to forgive.

[RobinF]

 

The OT isn't just about morals. I honestly don't think the NT can stand on its own. It is meant to be a whole with the OT. Jesus of the NT and God of the OT are one and the same. You cannot fully understand Him (I personally believe) if you leave out a part of Him.

 

I truly understand the desire to paint God as gentle and loving and merciful and peaceful...however, I really don't believe you are doing a child justice if you leave out "the rest of the story". God is a God of justice. And there are consequences for sin/rebellion. It's also amazing to see his provision for his people even when they so quickly forgot about him and rejected Him.

 

There is a reason for it and a reason why we have both. I do not take the view that the NT "cancels out" the OT. Yes, we are under grace now...but the OT is just as important (to me) as the NT. They are ONE book. Not two...

 

 

 

 

The OT is also primarily a story of God's holiness. Does the sacrafice of Jesus and resurrection (which in my opinion is pretty hard for a child to understand) make any sense without the revelation that God is a holy, holy, holy God. The OT continually points to the holiness of God and when we understand the holiness of God then we can truly understand the need for Jesus's death and resurrection.

 

Just as a side note. I also have four boys and I would encourage you to read John Eldridge's book Wild at Heart. It give tremendous insight into the mind and make up of boys who are created in the masculine image of God.

[Garga]

Try the Child's Story Bible by Catherine Voss

 

Here is her excerpt from Abraham and Issac

 

Abraham said, "My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering." then went on together until they came to the place that God had told Abraham about.

 

There Abraham built an altar. He laid the wood on the top, all ready to burn. Then he took his dear son and tied him so that he could not get away, and he laid him upon the altar.

 

He must have told Isaac what he was going to do, and he also must have told him that he believed that God would raise him from the dead. Isaac was big and stong enought to struggle so that Abraham cound not have bound him against his will. But he, too, knew that he must obey God, and he must have trusted that God would take care of him."

 

Another thought is to read a Psalm a day. We did this last year, and I was struck FLAT by how many times God is identified as merciful, faithful, loving, quick to forgive.

 

I've heard from many places that Abraham was firm in his belief that God would make him a father of many nations through Isaac, and because of that Abraham was so confident in this, that even if Isaac was killed (and I'm pretty sure Isaac was a full-grown man, if you study the scriptures--and as the quoted post says, not a helpless child being tied up) he was confident God would raise Isaac from the dead.

 

It wasn't that Abraham thought Isaac would be dead and gone forever. Abraham had a promise that Isaac would have children, so he knew that even if Isaac died, it wasn't permanent. And Isaac was old enough to have fought off Abraham if he wanted to. So Isaac must have gone along with it willingly.

 

(I really hate explaining bible stuff on a board like this. What if I come across completely wrong?) My point is that if you don't just skim over these stories, but study them, check out the time frame (check out Isaac's age), understand the full context (Abraham knew Isaac would have to live long enough to father children)...then the stories take on a different feel to them.

 

I don't think Abraham was lying to Isaac when he said that God would provide the lamb for the offering. I think he knew that Isaac wasn't going to die (or if he did...he'd be brought right back to life.)

Edited July 22, 2010 by Garga

[MindyD]

I think there are times to edit OT stories to fit the audience. For instance, there's no way I'm telling my 4 yr old the details of David and Bathsheba! But, I actually love the OT and am really excited to start there with my kids. Just going from beginning to end because one can't really understand the power of the NT without the OT. In every story we can find Christ. I think of it as looking at the OT through the lens of the NT if that makes sense. In every OT story I end up with Jesus. Abraham sacrificing his son makes me think of Jesus being sacrificed on the cross. Because that's what God DID. HE sacrificed His Son. No, it wasn't fair, but that's the point. Jesus died for something He didn't do. He died for what I did.

You don't have to teach the OT right now, but I urge you to really study it for yourself, looking for Christ throughout. It's full of wisdom and beautiful pictures of grace, holiness, and yes even justice. One of the best things I ever learned from a prof of mine was to not make a buffet of the Bible. We can't pick and choose what we don't like or don't agree with. It's the whole counsel of God so we have to deal with all of it at some point.

[FourSweetBoys]

You know, this really does have a lot to do with my relationship with God. This past year I have been questioning everything about my faith except what I KNOW to be true. And that's that I know Jesus is the son of God and that He wants a relationship with me. But I've been questioning everything else as far as religion goes. Like where is that line between what Jesus says is absolute truth and what different churches say you have to do to be a Christian. So many Christians have different interpretations of verses in the bible and a few even interpret it to say what they want it to say. I guess I'm getting a little off topic but I have been in this place where I'm just trying to separate "religion" and opinions from absolute truth. For a while I was doing a curriculum that is based on OT stories and although it didn't sit right with me, I kept at it because that was the Christian thing to do. So I guess this was just one more thing I'm trying to figure out?

 

I hope I haven't offended anyone here with my thinking aloud. :) I know there is a purpose in these thoughts and God will lead me to where He wants me to be. All roads lead to Him.

[bookfiend]

I've heard from many places that Abraham was firm in his belief that God would make him a father of many nations through Isaac, and because of that Abraham was so confident in this, that even if Isaac was killed (and I'm pretty sure Isaac was a full-grown man, if you study the scriptures--and as the quoted post says, not a helpless child being tied up) he was confident God would raise Isaac from the dead.

 

It wasn't that Abraham thought Isaac would be dead and gone forever. Abraham had a promise that Isaac would have children, so he knew that even if Isaac died, it wasn't permanent. And Isaac was old enough to have fought off Abraham if he wanted to. So Isaac must have gone along with it willingly.

 

(I really hate explaining bible stuff on a board like this. What if I come across completely wrong?) My point is that if you don't just skim over these stories, but study them, check out the time frame (check out Isaac's age), understand the full context (Abraham knew Isaac would have to live long enough to father children)...then the stories take on a different feel to them.

 

I don't think Abraham was lying to Isaac when he said that God would provide the lamb for the offering. I think he knew that Isaac wasn't going to die (or if he did...he'd be brought right back to life.)

 

Me too, I actually erased a whole paragraph about the Hebrew's scripture because it just seemed too complicated for me to explain well. Thank you for being braver than I!

 

OP, I'm wondering from the tone of some of your posts if you have read any of these accounts directly from the OT within the last few years and researched where they are referenced in the NT?

 

This is from a quick search, but my point is essentially that teaching the New Testament is teaching the Old. As many others have pointed out, they are intrinsically related and illuminate each other.

 

How many times do the writers of the New Testament quote the Old Testament? An index in the Jewish New Testament catalogs 695 separate quotations from the books of the Old Testament in the New (Jewish New Testament Publications, Jerusalem, 1989). There are many other passages where the Old Testament is referred to, as in cases where an Old Testament figure is mentioned, but no specific scripture is quoted. Depending on which scholar's work you examine, the number of quotations and references in the New Testament to the Old may be as high as 4,105(Roger Nicole, The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, 1979, Vol. I, p. 617). www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn15/otnt.htm

 

You of course are the best judge of how your children respond to information and spiritual matters. Please be encouraged to seek out the God of the Bible as He reveals Himself; be certain you are not replaying a distorted image from childhood.

Edited July 22, 2010 by bookfiend

[Jean in Newcastle]

Here is a good book that takes your through the entire Bible narrative. You can get a DVD as well as the book. We read the book aloud and then watched the corresponding DVD section together as a family. http://www.goodseed.com/products/str-eng-book-ebook/

 

There is a smaller book for young children by the same publisher.

http://www.goodseed.com/products/children/

[FourSweetBoys]

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[FourSweetBoys]

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[FourSweetBoys]

Oh and I did want to say thank you to everyone who listed books to check out. I am making notes of all of them. They all sound great!

[sbgrace]

OP, I completely understand your concern. Because of some "issues" in my own childhood views of God it's important to me that my kids don't have fear as their basis for following God. It seems a lot of curriculums and kid devotionals I see recommended so much are heavy on that angle--obedience, God as a judge, etc. I feel the bent we (as Western Christians) have is a little clouded sometimes and we don't give the whole picture--even the whole picture of the beauty of the atonement/Christ's sacrifice for example. That unbalanced/less than whole view clouds some teaching of old testament as well. What I did with LHTH is used my own bible that I liked better. The Beginners Bible by Karyn Henley (this is an older version/author with a similar name as a same title, same publisher bible that I didn't want/I had to get it 2nd hand--well worth it) was what I mainly used. Afterward I discovered the Jesus Storybook Bible someone mentioned upthread. I responded just to strongly encourage you to get it. It helped me see how Jesus is woven throughout and you'll love reading it to your kids. Please consider getting it! I'm doing Karen Henley bible materials with them now too and enjoying that.

 

I'm studying some Kay Arthur studies and getting so much out of them. A quote: Some of us are more familiar with the New Testament than the Old, but it's in the Old Testament that God introduces Himself....It's in the Old Testament that we develop our Understanding of God." And I am seeing the truth in what she wrote! I'm finding such beauty. I think Western Christianity as a whole has a little bit of an issue with seeing things from one side and the one side is often slanted too far in one or the other direction. There isn't enough balance. I'm realizing that more and more. I do want to give my kids a true and whole view of God as He is and I really don't think we can do that without the Old Testament. So I encourage you to find a way to cover it in balance and truth with them at some point (start with yourself--the Kay Arthur studies are really, really good and I think you'd enjoy them).

 

If you don't do anything else I've mentioned I really encourage you to get the Jesus Storybook Bible!

Edited July 22, 2010 by sbgrace

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Foursweetboys, have you heard of this book?

 

Leading Little Ones to God

 

I hope you find a children's Bible that meets your needs, but you might also like this book to use once or twice each week. It teaches doctrine to very young children in a very gentle and loving way.

 

The author uses Bible stories to demonstrate doctrinal truths, and sometimes the stories are from the New Testament and sometimes from the Old Testament but always showing the love of God.

 

Leading Little Ones to God is a Sonlight book, used in Core 1. When I read it with my sons years ago it inspired me to begin really studying doctrine and the meaning of the trickier or more confusing parts of God's word.

 

Honestly, when I began reading this book, I'd been in kind of a dark place, and I felt burned and disillusioned by legalistic churches that judged me but didn't teach me anything solid and good. This book led me out of that feeling and caused me to search out better teaching.

 

As another mama of four sweet boys :) I really want to commend you for looking for ways to teach your children about Jesus without laying the burden of church-caused pain and spiritual baggage on them in their youth. I have BTDT, and sometimes I felt I was telling my sons things that I wasn't totally sure I believed but I wanted them to believe if they could. Does that make sense?

 

I hope you find the resources you need.

[TechWife]

I haven't read all of the responses here, so forgive me if I am repeating others. The Bible is one story - it needs to be understood in its entirety. I think the first thing you should do is study the Old Testament to understand it for yourself, then you will most likely realize the importance of teaching it to your children.

 

Matthew 5:17-19

7 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets ; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven ; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. What sense does that make to a child? (It makes no sense to me, either.) The people were bad, so God drowned everyone, even the animals who didn't have the good sense to line up for the ark. :confused: The Evil Egyptians had to be tortured and then, finally, all their firstborns had to die, so God could prove his point.

 

The OT and the NT go together, you can't just study half of the Bible and understand. Either half.

About Abraham; if you look in Hebrews 11:17 it tells you what he was thinking. He understood God. He knew that God promised him he would have many sons and this child would not die no matter what. It wasn't about murdering his son but about showing God that he trusted Him and believed Him.

In Noah's case he warned the people. Everyone was welcome to come aboard the Ark, but they chose not to. God gives us free will to choose what we will. He wants us to choose Him, but the people in Noah's day didn't choose God. Noah was spared because he believed God and followed God's directions. It took him 100 years to build the Ark, that was plenty of time for another person to change their minds and decide to trust God too. Look at 1peter 3:20

[TechWife]

No, it isn't. There would be no need for the salvation of Christ if it weren't for the sin of man. It is this that everyone must realize - it is part of being a Christian.

[TechWife]

But a Childs relationship with God is so much more than math. I'm not trying to teach them the subject of bible. I'm trying to point them to a relationship with their Savior. Jesus and His love and forgiveness is what drew me to God. Christians don't hand out pamphlets on God's need for justice and punishment. They hand out ones that talk about Jesus and His love and mercifulness

 

A relationship with Jesus IS the subject of the Bible - both Old and New Testaments.

 

On a personal note, I would not be able to begin to understand God's love and mercy if it weren't for my understanding of God and my sin. Have you ever studied the names of God? I highly recommend that you do so - Kay Arthur has a wonderful study - I think it's called "God, What's Your Name?" It will help you understand the character of God, which is revealed in His names.

[silliness7]

Is there any kind of bible curriculum based on the new testament? I ask this for my 10 yo also. I want them to really know God's love and forgiveness for them first.

 

 

 

I'm afraid if you leave off the OT or reverse the order NT and then OT your children may learn that God is a God of forgiveness but they won't know why they need forgiveness. They'll learn that Jesus is a Savior but they won't know what he saves them from. There is a reason God gave the law first and the New Testament testifies as much.

[RobinF]

You know, this really does have a lot to do with my relationship with God. This past year I have been questioning everything about my faith except what I KNOW to be true. And that's that I know Jesus is the son of God and that He wants a relationship with me. But I've been questioning everything else as far as religion goes. Like where is that line between what Jesus says is absolute truth and what different churches say you have to do to be a Christian. So many Christians have different interpretations of verses in the bible and a few even interpret it to say what they want it to say. I guess I'm getting a little off topic but I have been in this place where I'm just trying to separate "religion" and opinions from absolute truth. For a while I was doing a curriculum that is based on OT stories and although it didn't sit right with me, I kept at it because that was the Christian thing to do. So I guess this was just one more thing I'm trying to figure out?

 

I hope I haven't offended anyone here with my thinking aloud. :) I know there is a purpose in these thoughts and God will lead me to where He

wants me to be. All roads lead to Him.

 

You didn't offend me at all. I have been in that dark place before and it is hard. I came to the place where I had to begin to hang on to what I knew to be truth. As a historian I knew that the proof for the living Jesus was unmistakable and I worked backwards from there. It has taken several years but I am at a much stronger place in my walk with God and I can see how those questions have molded where I am today and I can appreciate it.

 

 

The Beginners Bible by Karyn Henley (this is an older version/author with a similar name as a same title, same publisher bible that I didn't want/I had to get it 2nd hand--well worth it) was what I mainly used.

 

If you don't do anything else I've mentioned I really encourage you to get the Jesus Storybook Bible!

 

We love/loved Karyn Henley's childrens Bible the Day by Day children's Bible (I think that is the correct name). We have even given it to adults who have never read the Bible but that wanted to.

 

I am going to look for the Jesus Storybook Bible. I think we would enjoy it. We try to read through a Bible storybook with our boys every year.

[alpidarkomama]

Yep, what she said. :) I read through all the comments out of curiosity, and it baffled me that I felt like I was reading about a completely different book. Our children learn all these stories from the day they are born!

 

Does it help at all to realize that Yitzchak was an *adult* when this happened (37 years old).. and that he gave implicit consent?

This was not a parent and minor child.

 

Also, this event clearly shows us that G-d does not want us to perform human sacrifices - a human being cannot be a korban (ritual sacrifice), it is halachically impossible and unacceptable. So, those who claim they 'hear' such messages are clearly *wrong*.

 

I don't think my understandings of the text as an Orthodox Jew are going to be very helpful, but it is odd how differently you see our Torah than we do. ...and the foreshadowings which seem so obvious to you seem like complete non sequiturs, at best, to me.

 

I read the Chumash through every year, week by week; my children start out with children's versions (My First Parsha Reader and The Little Midrash Says among others), the older four all read directly from Tanakh now, and we find inspiration, comfort, insight, and guidance - awe, yes, but not *fear*, love, not distance, justice but tempered with chesed (kindness) and mercy. It is as if we were reading different texts.

 

I have not read your gospels, so I cannot compare. I wish you well in your study and spiritual journey; I'm sorry I don't know how to share my perspective in a useful way.

[Guest janainaz]

As adults, we realize these things but can a child? And I wonder is there a reason preschool curriculum needs to be so immersed in the OT when it is the NT that applies to today. I was led to Christ by behold told about His love not "God's people didn't obey so He killed them". So why do we teach our kids that first? I just can't make sense of it.

 

And I certainly don't mind them learning OT stories here and there but to completely immerse them in it first doesn't sit well with me.

 

I do not see AT ALL how a very small child can comprehend such stories. As a mother, you need to trust your heart in regard to what they need to hear and when. And I agree, the love message must come first before you go into all the biblical, head-banging contradictions about his character. I'm an adult, and I STILL can't get it to set right.

[Ginevra]

Foursweetboys, have you heard of this book?

 

Leading Little Ones to God

 

I hope you find a children's Bible that meets your needs, but you might also like this book to use once or twice each week. It teaches doctrine to very young children in a very gentle and loving way.

 

The author uses Bible stories to demonstrate doctrinal truths, and sometimes the stories are from the New Testament and sometimes from the Old Testament but always showing the love of God.

 

It's funny you mention this book, because this is one of the books I began with when my oldest was little. I thought, "Ugh! I hate this." :001_unsure: I suppose at the heart of it, I don't like the central tenant of the doctrine and there isn't really any nice way to put it for children. I'm not the OP, but I feel very similarly to what she says in her posts and I have also had a very hard time staying with the faith in the last several years. There was even a period of time (about 2 years) when I did not identify myself as a Christian any more. I don't like the messages that are central to the faith. That you're a sinner before you were even born, that you are "as filthy rags" unless Jesus is your advocate, that Hell and Everlasting Torment is for everyone who does not expressly put their faith in Christ. It makes no sense to me that God made us fallible, but requires perfection, and the remedy for that is The Sacrifice. :confused: So, it will be apparent that if I find these things somewhere between baffling and horrifying, it's hard to find an acceptable way to communicate them to my children.

[lionfamily1999]

Julie, I agree and my kids definitely know the story of Adam and Eve and Noah and the ark. I wouldn't not teach them stories from the bible but want to find curriculum that doesn't go into it every. single. day.

I see (really, but gosh that comes across snarky online..... think pensive, not sarcastic or rude). I don't use a curriculum. For Luke, we use his storybook Bible and for Drew we sort of flip around and find random bits and pieces, so I don't have a thing I have to follow, iykwIm.

 

I do think that children should know the glory story inside out and backwards, and in our case, the kids do know most of it. I think it's my love of history in chronological order that makes me lean towards teaching OT first, with all of its foreshadowing and morals &tc. and building up to the glory story.

 

Okay, I say, free yourself from the bonds of curriculum. Take your Bibles, sit down, and look. If you find yourself in Acts, then discuss Pentacost. If you're in Luke, then discuss the Nativity or the ressurection. If you're in Psalms, pick one to sing and discuss the Levites or David. Really, pick something you feel is worth while and make a concentration on it. :grouphug: God wants your kids to know Him, I'm sure He will give you all the help you need.

This is where we are. I'm starting to see things in a whole new way.

 

For example, the whole "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" passage always seemed so mean. Until you realize that people aren't that fair.

 

Think about it: our government has provision for no cruel or unusual punishment. That's because people tend to like to become cruel or unusual when they mete out punishment. The "eye for an eye" was about God expecting there to be fair laws. Left to themselves, people end up chopping off your hand for stealing a loaf of bread. In God's justice, the punishment should fit the crime (pay back the price of the bread, plus extra). The "eye for an eye" was about making the punishment fit the crime and NOT BE WORSE than the crime. (If someone takes your eye, you can't go off and slaughter the person and their entire family.)

 

Noah and the arc--he built that ark for about 100 years (or some such huge amount of time) People knew aaaaall about it and made fun of him. Not a single person attempted to reach out to God and seek salvation. The people were utterly hard towards God. They wanted nothing to do with him. Yes, everything got killed...and yet God gave them decades upon decades to turn to him. They flat out refused.

 

You can stay away from the OT for now, but I would encourage you to check out the time frames for a lot of these stories. You'll start to notice that before some sort of horrible judgement falls on people, they're often given decades upon decades to repent (or in the case of Jonah, God kept him alive in there for the 3 days it took him.)

That's just what I meant. I remember thinking that the story of Babel just meant that God didn't want us to work together. Reading it with dd, I realized the problem is when we work together, it's not for good things.

You know, this really does have a lot to do with my relationship with God. This past year I have been questioning everything about my faith except what I KNOW to be true. And that's that I know Jesus is the son of God and that He wants a relationship with me. But I've been questioning everything else as far as religion goes. Like where is that line between what Jesus says is absolute truth and what different churches say you have to do to be a Christian. So many Christians have different interpretations of verses in the bible and a few even interpret it to say what they want it to say. I guess I'm getting a little off topic but I have been in this place where I'm just trying to separate "religion" and opinions from absolute truth. For a while I was doing a curriculum that is based on OT stories and although it didn't sit right with me, I kept at it because that was the Christian thing to do. So I guess this was just one more thing I'm trying to figure out?

 

I hope I haven't offended anyone here with my thinking aloud. :) I know there is a purpose in these thoughts and God will lead me to where He wants me to be. All roads lead to Him.

Okay, I just finished going through this. I started off with going through the Gospels and writing every rule, admonishment, and commandment that came from Christ's lips. From there I read some background, started looking up the prophecies that led up to Christ's coming, and then suddenly I was devouring the Bible ;) You can work through this, God will help, but don't give up. Don't shrug off the hard stuff, making the conversion from milk to meat is never easy :grouphug: and I've slid off the path so many times since it's mortifying. All the same, sliding away and everything, the path is still much clearer since I stopped taking the bull by the horns and let God and the Holy Spirit lead me, instead of insisting on doing it my own way.

 

ETA, as you could tell from the mistake I had to fix, I still struggle with trying to do it my way.

[angela in ohio]

I'm afraid if you leave off the OT or reverse the order NT and then OT your children may learn that God is a God of forgiveness but they won't know why they need forgiveness. They'll learn that Jesus is a Savior but they won't know what he saves them from. There is a reason God gave the law first and the New Testament testifies as much.

 

I think what you are saying that you want to teach your children mercy without first teaching them what justice is.

 

That is like teaching calculus without first teaching addition and subtraction.

 

BINGO!

 

Children who don't know WHY they need the cleansing blood of Christ are likely to fall away, imho. I can see skipping quite a bit with a 4 and 2 yo, if you want to, but I think a 10 yo boy can handle the OT. He will not think God is going to put him into a big fish as punishment if you have conversations with him.

 

The Vos Story Bible is a great choice. It tells the major themes of the OT without lingering on the gory details. It is a nice first step.

Edited July 22, 2010 by angela in ohio

[angela in ohio]

But a Childs relationship with God is so much more than math. I'm not trying to teach them the subject of bible. I'm trying to point them to a relationship with their Savior. Jesus and His love and forgiveness is what drew me to God. Christians don't hand out pamphlets on God's need for justice and punishment. They hand out ones that talk about Jesus and His love and mercifulness

 

Sure they do. There is a great Baptist congregation locally that does just this. They love others so much that they are willing to tell them the truth about their future, even if it is not a popular message. :001_smile:

[angela in ohio]

Kymberly, I have read through the OT and studied it and enjoyed it very much but it was shortly after I became a Christian. I started with the NT and had I not read the NT first the OT wouldn't have meant much. But it has been a while, not since my oldest was 4. I haven't been in church or reading enough since then and am now trying to figure out where I fit in and what I believe, you know? My youngest kids haven't been taught enough about the bible so I'm trying to establish that for them but the OT stories haven't seemed like a good way to start. I guess I'm just trying to figure where to start again because I truly do want to.

 

I would encourage you not to pull away while you figure it out.

 

It sounds like your question is more about how to start with the NT, because that is what you need right now, and save the OT for later, not never. That makes sense. I wouldn't worry about a study, I would just sit down with your dc and read a certain number of chapters each day. You could have your dc do a narration or tell what they learned, or you could discuss them, if you want to make it school-y. :001_smile: You don't need a curriculum. There is time later if you want to go into background, word study, etc. Right now you just need to find a way to have God's Word speak to you each day.