Picky eaters.

[Paige]

I was talking to a friend today - her dd is being evaluated for sensory issues.

The therapist told her that eating 20 or less kinds of foods put her dd in the "critical range" for nutrition. Dd is picky. She is 2.5yo and a typical tough 2 year old - very much the "No!" stage of life. Mom is trying to figure out if dd truly has sensory issues or if she's just being 2.

I thought the less than 20 foods being considered "critical" was interesting in light of the nutritional aspects some have posted on.

Maybe another mom who has understanding of sensory issues can explain that better than I can.

BTW, I was a gagger as a kid too - I kind of grew out of it. Hang in there mom! :grouphug: Maybe he'd benefit from an evaluation. Just to give you guys a point to work from.

 

Michele

 

It has nothing to do with how many foods the child will eat, but rather what he or she will eat. When we saw the nutritionist, my girls were eating so, so, so little variety. They were definitely eating less than 20 foods, but the nutritionist surprised me by saying that they actually had a balanced diet! She said there were no critical vitamins or minerals they were missing and that a multivitamin would take care of the rest. These were kids whose only protein source was peanut butter with a spoon and who ate no vegetables at all for at least 3 years! We were told that vegetables weren't necessary if we could get them to eat a few fruits and it was more of a social problem. I'd suggest that your friend keep a food diary and have a nutritionist look over it.

[Amy in TX]

1. Pancakes with butter. He won't eat syrup (thankfully!)

2. Toast with butter. won't eat jelly.

3. Mcdonalds chicken nuggets. No other type of breaded chicken, no other nugget or brand.

4. French fries, only skinny ones. Thick fries won't be eaten.

5. Ramen noodles. Only beef flavor.

6. Ham.

7. Pizza, cheese only. (won't eat it if there is ham on it--go figure.)

8. Hot dogs. Chicken/pork types, not beef.

9. Fish sticks. Not an entire breaded fish patty. Just the sticks.

10. Corn on the cob. Sort of. He eats about 5 bites and then stops. Won't eat it off the cob. (Without a huge fight.)

 

 

Hi Garga,

 

While you are in the process of taking whatever steps you decide to take over this issue, can you also make the above foods as clean and nourishing as humanly possible? I'm thinking along the lines of organic/whole foods.

 

For instance, he eats toast with butter. Can it be organic whole wheat bread (there are brands such as Rudi's that are soft without obvious whole grains) with grass-fed organic butter (Organic Valley makes this). Butter from grass-fed cows is extremely nourishing--full of vitamin A and omega 3 fats.

 

Can the pancakes be made with organic whole milk, eggs, and whole wheat flour?

 

Can you make skinny fries from organic potatoes and either extra-virgin olive oil or coconut oil? Coconut oil is tasteless, odorless, and highly nutritious.

 

Organic ham/hot dogs? Try Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.

 

Will he eat homemade pizza? Organic whole wheat flour and organic cheese. If he won't eat homemade, Amy's is a brand of frozen pizza with organic and whole wheat varieties.

 

Fish sticks--Costco has a brand that is wild-caught, with minimal breading. My picky dc love them.

 

In general, if you can cook using only grass-fed butter, organic coconut oil, or extra-virgin olive oil as your fats, and using only organic flour/eggs/meats/milk, you'd be improving his diet. (I can't think of any way to make McNuggets or Ramen noodles healthy, lol.)

 

Oh, you might also look at these books. Maybe you could sneak some veggies into the pancakes or the pizza sauce.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sneaky-Chef-Strategies-Healthy-Favorite/dp/0762430753/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1278631234&sr=1-1

 

http://www.amazon.com/Deceptively-Delicious-Simple-Secrets-ebook/dp/B0035C0MMQ/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1278631234&sr=1-5

 

Organic is expensive, but I sacrifice in other areas to pay for it--my dc's health is worth it. I hope something here is useful to you. Best of luck with your picky guy!

[lovemyboys]

I have no clue how to deal with it when the kids get older. From the beginning we expected our children to eat what was placed before them. The idea of picky eating is decidedly American (or perhaps a developed country problem), imo.

 

Most people in the world don't have the luxury of being picky eaters. They are hungry and they eat what is available. Kids eat a huge variety of foods the world over. I don't know of any person in Thailand who cooks their kid fish sticks and tater tots because they refuse to eat Pad Thai. I'm convinced this is a learned behavior.

 

I had this very issue last night with kale. My 10yo usually loves kale, but I made crispy kale and she thought it was too salty (I don't usually cook with salt and had sprinkled on a bit). Crying, whining, etc. Whatever. She had to sit at the table until her kale was gone. If she had pushed it until bedtime I would have served her cold limp previously-crispy kale for breakfast. My kids know I mean business, so they rarely give me grief about it. In a world full of starving children, their missing a meal or two isn't going to make me feel too sympathetic.

 

Let me be clear though. I don't make my children clean their plates, but I expect them to give each food a decent effort. They don't have to like the food, but they must eat a minimum amount each and every time I serve it. I also allow for variation. My son doesn't care too much for cooked broccoli. Okay, fine. When I make broccoli, I save a few raw pieces for him. I'm cool with that, but he still has to eat his broccoli. And we are the same as the pp. No seconds of anything unless you've eaten everything on your plate. No dessert unless you've eaten your healthy food.

 

And yes, kids follow in their parent's footsteps. I think it is a wonderful gift to their children, when a picky parent puts on a smile and eats that food even when they don't like it.

 

We have this with carrots, so we do allow the substitute. And I remember being that way -- raw vegetables I have always eaten, the cooked version much less appealing.

 

Daisy, your comment about adults cracked me up. My dad announced that he'd eaten all his vegetables on the 4th!.....He was surprised when my mother handed him a plate full of food, including fresh beets, squash and green beans. It was a big deal for him and good for dc to see. I can only remember him eating 2 or 3 different green vegetables when we were growing up.

 

 

Like I said earlier -- it's taken us baby steps to get here. If you'd told me 2 years ago what dc would be eating (sometimes even requesting :blink: ) I wouldn't have believed it.

[lovemyboys]

The thing that is working for him is age. Puberty made him hungry, so he started eating meat. Lots of meat. ..... He now will eat salad, but no dressing.

 

.... In the last 2 years he started eating meat (burgers, steaks pork chops regular chicken) and salad. He won't eat fruit.

 

...... I've told him his palate is so discerning that he ought to go into the wine business!!

 

 

 

 

A few years younger and this is my ds!! He can taste the nuances in food so keenly. I've tried sneaking veggies into things, in very small amounts and he's able to discern the texture difference, color, flavor, it's amazing.

 

But same here, he's started eating voracious amounts of protein in the last year as he's approaching puberty. :001_smile:

[amyable]

I'm a mostly recovered picky eater and former speech pathologist with a little training in this area (but not much hands on experience) -- just so you know where I'm coming from. My kids are not half as picky as I was, but do have many food allergies.

 

You've received a lot of good advice I think! First I want to send you lots of :grouphug:. I think if they were my kids I would try to figure out what is the biggest problem...texture? taste? and then try to tackle that, introducing new things in as little steps as possible. Like, if they like thin fries, I would put one fat fry on their plate every night. (alternately, let him pick something to do this with) The first week, they have to smell it (deep breath!), no eating necessary. Some kind of treat for doing that (food or otherwise). The second week (or whenever you think they are ready) they have to lick it. The next step is chewing a tiny bite while holding their nose if necessary. Then w/o the nose holding. They don't have to swallow! Slowly, slowly growing up to the step where they are swallowing because you've shown them that they finally could chew it in their mouth w/o gagging and how excellent that was. Encouraging and rewarding all the way.

 

I would definitely check for food allergies and sensory issues in addition. Sensitivities to foods can make kids to weird things. :)

[2boysmom]

My picky kid also has sensory issues. He can smell things a mile away that others can't. I often wonder how God will decide to use his sense of smell because it's so keen. Unfortunately, with this gift, many foods, especially meat and eggs repulse him. It's not a "learned" behavior because his brother, father and mother all eat normally. From the breast he's had issues and allergies too.

 

I wish other people could understand that kids like this cannot "get over it" and "parents should get tough." Would you tell your "ADHD" kid to "get over it" and parents to change to fix the problem? Pickiness is sometimes sensory related and believe me, it's just not about being ungrateful or a push-over parent.

 

Luckily there are foods he will eat:

cucumbers

carrots

corn

some fruits-strawberries, apples, bananas, grapes

yogurts

cheeses

milk/juice

 

along with other foods, I always serve a plate of raw veggies and fruits before a meal. After that it's usually a pasta or rice, sometimes pizza and I can get him to eat a few bites of some chicken or steak.

[my2kidsmom]

First of all, my heart goes out to the OP! I can't imagine having to deal with that day in and day out. I am blessed with 2 children who would rather go out and eat sushi than get a happy meal. (And yes, sushi cost a lot more than a happy meal.) Here are a couple of things we have done over the years. For one, we tell the kids that if they don't want to eat it, fine....then that means there is more for us. No lie, we do tell our kids that! We also tell them that your taste buds change every seven years. I have no idea where that came from! So, based on that theory, you never really know what year your taste buds started counting! This really cracks me up when my almost 8 year old tastes of a food he did not like and decides his tastes bud had maybe another year or two to go or when he says that the seven years was up and he now likes the food! Another thing we do is we accept that there are some foods that the kids don't like. If they don't like it then they don't have to eat it. We sort of have a list and if I cooks manicotti then my son does not have to eat it, but he's welcome to (if not, it's more for us). ;) A couple of things we also tell our children is that we appreciate it when they at least will take a "no thank you bite" to have manners and that even sometimes a second bite is needed to just make sure your taste buds and stomach were thinking correctly if you didn't like something.

 

Now, with that said on to the hard part. I see a very similar thing with my sister and her kids. Also, my husband grew up in a family that "forced" him to eat food he did not like. Please, please, please don't! What is happening here is that it is becoming a power play and a control issue! Your child is being positively reinforced for negative behavior. If you prepare a healthy dinner and your child won't eat at least some of it then don't force him to eat it and then have to deal with the traumatic (to the whole family) episode that will follow. You can just send him to his room. Of course you will need to get some food in your child, but consider the foods that he will it, it probably isn't going to be too bad if he doesn't eat dinner or only has a piece of toast (in his room).

 

It sounds like it is time for a "family meeting". I would have him make a list of 10 foods that he WILL NOT eat and tell him that these are the only foods that you will not serve him and then in 6 months he will need to cut the list to 5. (you could start higher on the list of food or go a longer period of time). I would set some "rules" and tell him that you will no longer "force" him to eat but that you expect him to. If he does not eat then he needs to go to his room. I would tell him that he will be limited to the processed stuff (fish sticks, etc) for lunch only and that dinner time he will have real fish and real chicken. I would also say to take "baby steps" and eventually limit the processed stuff too, but let's take care of this bigger problem for now. I would take every opportunity I could to point out how "variety is the spice of life".

[hornblower]

I have no clue how to deal with it when the kids get older. From the beginning we expected our children to eat what was placed before them. The idea of picky eating is decidedly American (or perhaps a developed country problem), imo.

 

Most people in the world don't have the luxury of being picky eaters. They are hungry and they eat what is available. Kids eat a huge variety of foods the world over. I don't know of any person in Thailand who cooks their kid fish sticks and tater tots because they refuse to eat Pad Thai. I'm convinced this is a learned behavior.

 

 

I respectfully disagree with you. I know a couple adults who grew up during the war in Europe. They knew hunger very well, living in a ghetto. They nevertheless admit that there were things they would not eat & their poor mothers despaired. For ex, these kids were starving & thin & gaunt but when horse meat was procured by the fortunate mom (at huge cost and the selling of valued possessions), one of them would rather go hungry & just eat the one small potato that was the daily ration.

 

Sure, when you're starving you'll eat anything. Grass, fabric, moldy bread, rotten vegetables. But we're not talking starving.....

 

When I was growing up in Poland there were periods of food rationing - we had little ration cards to go to the store with. Often enough, the store was empty - literally empty. So your little ration cards went unused that week. I would not say I knew hunger in the way that these older relatives who grew up in the war - they really were hungry and malnourished. I was not as when one staple was in short supply, usually another was more abudnant and there was always bread and milk available.

 

I think you're minimizing the problems some people have with taste & smell & you're also doing what the OP specifically asked not to happen: the standard "I just expected them to eat and they did."

 

Well you know, most people expect their kids to walk & talk & read and MOST kids do, with a bit of tweaking and support and pushing and prodding. BUT SOME DON'T.

[mom31257]

I STRONGLY disagree with this rule, because as an adult I can tell without tasting it whether I'll like it or not.

 

Taste is mostly smell. I can tell if I'll like something by smelling it. If I don't like the smell of something, putting in my mouth is right up there with picking up my dog's poo & tasting it. It's THAT disgusting if the smell is disgusting.

 

Sorry for the gross imagery but those of us who have strong sense of smell don't need to taste it to decide that something is indeed gross. Tasting it just confirms it & often brings up the "gagging, retching, now I really feel sick & can't eat ANYTHING" feeling.

 

I still sniff (hopefully it's not terribly obvious - I'm not all over my plate like a hound LOL) all my food before I eat it.

 

I hadn't thought about the smell much because my kids don't normally smell stuff first. I guess that could make a difference. Thankfully, mine have never disliked anything enough to truly gag or throw up over it. I like to think I've never made anything disgusting smelling!! Seriously, I try to make food taste really good, or at least simple, so as not to offend.

[AngieW in Texas]

I was an incredibly picky eater. I ate most breads, but I wouldn't eat sandwiches. Just looking at a sandwich made me want to puke. I would eat peanut butter on crackers (the thought of putting peanut butter on bread sent me running to the bathroom to puke). I ate apples and watermelon and grapes and cantaloupe and marachino cherries in heavy syrup. When I was about 10yo, I added oranges to my list.

 

I ate beef absolutely plain with nothing whatsoever on it and nothing could touch it either. That was my only meat.

 

I did eat corn, but that's actually a grain rather than a vegetable. I ate potatoes only as chips or fries.

 

I ate cookies and only one cake, cinnamon streusel swirl. For ice cream I ate only pink ice or grape ice or vanilla. No toppings. I also ate brownies, but my dad was allergic to chocolate, so we didn't have them often.

 

That was it.

 

Any time my mom fixed rice, all I could see was heaving mass of maggots and I had to run for the bathroom. When she made spaghetti, all I could see was a heaving mass of worms and I had to run for the bathroom.

 

I had just about everything for the first time in college. I don't know what happened. Suddenly looking at foods didn't make me want to puke. I could look at rice without seeing maggots and spaghetti without seeing worms. I gradually tried different foods and found that I liked a lot of them.

 

I can tell you that I wasn't trying to be difficult as a kid. I wasn't faking it. If forced, I would have vomited all over everything. I had difficulty not going into dry heaves just from seeing the food. Nobody could have possibly forced me to eat. I would have starved myself rather than eat any of the stuff that everybody else in my house ate. For a full week of girl scout camp all I ate was toast and that was only available at breakfast.

====================

 

My youngest is a very picky eater. She has gotten better about trying things recently.

 

her foods (not counting desserts and candy)

SaraLee whole grain white toast

Eggo blueberry waffles

Armour sausage patties

tacos made with McCormick mild seasoning

Wendy's chicken nuggets

HEB or Target or Randall's chicken strips if they are skinny/flat

Target popcorn chicken, but only the flat pieces

HEB sausage on a stick

biryani, but she only eats the rice and picks out all the rest

Fiber One vanilla yogurt

homemade cherry-apple smoothies (one cup frozen cherries, fill with apple juice to the one-cup mark, add 1 tbs sugar)

slim jims

microwave or theater popcorn (she won't eat stove-popped popcorn)

homemade challah

pancakes (with nothing on them)

occasionally is in the mood for crepes (eaten with just powdered sugar on top)

occasionally peanut butter on Town House crackers

 

My dd's list is longer than your ds's, but it isn't any healthier.

[hornblower]

I like to think I've never made anything disgusting smelling!! Seriously, I try to make food taste really good, or at least simple, so as not to offend.

 

But you see that's the thing - the things I find really offensively smelling are yummy to others. It's not that they're gross or prepared by bad cooks or something - it's just gross to ME. So you wouldn't know offhand that something would gross me out.

[Farrar]

But you see that's the thing - the things I find really offensively smelling are yummy to others. It's not that they're gross or prepared by bad cooks or something - it's just gross to ME. So you wouldn't know offhand that something would gross me out.

 

I can remember nearly throwing up when my grandmother was putting up squash during the summer. I would go outside and sit in the 100 degree heat rather than be in that small house while they were cooking the summer squash to put in deep freeze. Now, I love squash. But the smell to me back then. Oh my.

 

I do think we can destroy taste buds when we feed our children 'kid' food. Chickens nuggets, tater tots, corn dogs, mac and cheese from a box, some ramen, fish sticks are all highly salted and processed foods. I am convinced this stuff will dull taste buds and are too 'easy' to eat.

 

I totally agree. The processed foods thing. Oy. As a child, I was crazy picky, but my mother found the one healthy thing I would eat - fresh fruit. And while I can't say my childhood was a stranger to processed foods, there were a lot more homemade chicken dinners than frozen chicken nuggets. I do the same thing for my kids now (though they're not nearly as picky as I was. They eat green things!). I keep the food simple for them. I try to be aware of texture. But I don't let them fall back on fast food or processed food. Sausage from the Whole Foods instead of hot dogs - homemade mac & cheese instead of the box stuff, sitr fry noodles instead of ramen, etc. I think the key is not to really offer that stuff in the first place. Picky kids will find their niche. If you don't offer the processed stuff to begin with, then they'll find it in some limited range of healthy foods. Which, even if they need a vitamin to supplement it, is still a much better place.

[Parrothead]

But you see that's the thing - the things I find really offensively smelling are yummy to others. It's not that they're gross or prepared by bad cooks or something - it's just gross to ME. So you wouldn't know offhand that something would gross me out.

I get nauseous smelling brewing coffee. I like the taste of it with lots of chocolate-caramel flavor, and I love to smell freshly ground beans. But I'm such a freak of nature anyway.

[Food4Thought]

But you see that's the thing - the things I find really offensively smelling are yummy to others. It's not that they're gross or prepared by bad cooks or something - it's just gross to ME. So you wouldn't know offhand that something would gross me out.

 

I used to work with a man who would literally throw up if he smelled popcorn. So I can imagine there are all sorts of things that might throw someone off.

[OrganicAnn]

I really like the book "How to get your kids to eat... but not too much" by Ellyn Satter. It has some great suggestions even for older kids.

 

I think that for those of us who have normal kids who just go through picky periods as toddlers or whatever, can not really understand the depth of the problem with very picky eaters. (I know I feel this way about advice on getting kids to sleep, unless you have a kid that resists sleep you just don't understand the issue.) I do think there are some parents that contribute to the pickiness - either because of their own issues or because they are lazy/want to avoid conflict/do not understand nutrition.

 

I also thought this article was very interesting. It seemed to indicate some picky eaters might be similar to OCD.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704699604575343130457388718.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

Regarding fresh food vs package food. Meat is usually the most costly food in your diet. So if you substitute fresh veggies for some meat, you will cut costs and improve your health. I read an article about a women who was talking about the diet in England during WWII when rationing was extreme. They only received one egg and few ounces of meat per week, a few small (1/4 c per 4 people per month) amount of sugar, (just from my memory of the article, I could have some amount off)... but they could grow their own veggies in Victory Gardens. That period of what would appear to us as severe food deprivation, actually improved their health and their life longevity. Same idea about improving health for a man who was in a prisoner of war camp and lived off of rice and canned sardines I think for more than a year. It was better for him than the average American diet, but felt of course like torture.

[Hockey Mom]

Didn't read all of the responses yet, but wanted to add my DS7 to the list of picky eaters here. He is the only one in our family who fights me every single day wrt food. I assumed the reason he is so picky has to do with him having severe GERD as a baby, and perhaps he learned that food = throwing up? I don't know. All I know is that the doctor told me to feed him whatever he will eat. If he likes PB&J, then just feed him PB&J until he wants to try something different. I give him vitamins with iron because he refuses to eat any kind of meat.

 

My DS7 weighs only 49lbs, and he plays hockey, so I've pretty much given up with the food fights and give him whatever he will eat just so he will stay healthy. Right now, it's scrambled eggs and milk. And broccoli. The kid will tolerate broccoli more than any other vegetable. So we have broccoli almost every single night.

[LibraryLover]

Where on earth did this notion that children everywhere but America eat anything placed in front of them?! It's. Not. True. My oldest BIL was born in Europe in 1943 (my dh is a supreme caboose baby lol) and my MIL will tell you stories about how he and his later sibs had trouble eating some of the food available to them (ftr, they did not live where there were bombings). Whevenever possible, childrens' young taste buds are accomodated. In my travels, I have never seen anyone make a child clean a plate. Certainly none of my dh's family abroad does anything of the sort.

 

Sure, if you are talking about starvation, a person will eat their own limbs, but it's not preferred.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. I know a couple adults who grew up during the war in Europe. They knew hunger very well, living in a ghetto. They nevertheless admit that there were things they would not eat & their poor mothers despaired. For ex, these kids were starving & thin & gaunt but when horse meat was procured by the fortunate mom (at huge cost and the selling of valued possessions), one of them would rather go hungry & just eat the one small potato that was the daily ration.

 

Sure, when you're starving you'll eat anything. Grass, fabric, moldy bread, rotten vegetables. But we're not talking starving.....

 

When I was growing up in Poland there were periods of food rationing - we had little ration cards to go to the store with. Often enough, the store was empty - literally empty. So your little ration cards went unused that week. I would not say I knew hunger in the way that these older relatives who grew up in the war - they really were hungry and malnourished. I was not as when one staple was in short supply, usually another was more abudnant and there was always bread and milk available.

 

I think you're minimizing the problems some people have with taste & smell & you're also doing what the OP specifically asked not to happen: the standard "I just expected them to eat and they did."

 

Well you know, most people expect their kids to walk & talk & read and MOST kids do, with a bit of tweaking and support and pushing and prodding. BUT SOME DON'T.

Edited July 9, 2010 by LibraryLover

[lisamarie]

Any time my mom fixed rice, all I could see was heaving mass of maggots and I had to run for the bathroom. When she made spaghetti, all I could see was a heaving mass of worms and I had to run for the bathroom.

 

I had just about everything for the first time in college. I don't know what happened. Suddenly looking at foods didn't make me want to puke. I could look at rice without seeing maggots and spaghetti without seeing worms. I gradually tried different foods and found that I liked a lot of them.

 

 

This is hilarious! I was exactly the same way as a kid. I couldn't eat rice because it looked like the maggots that were in our outside trash can. I still won't eat spaghetti-style noodles. Any other pasta I will eat, but not the long noodles. Yeck! I didn't start getting unpicky until college and after I got married. DH has broadened my horizons to food greatly.

 

My DS is/was a very picky eater who would throw up when forced to eat something that wasn't one of his 5 foods. He did get some OT because he used to throw up as a 1 yr old when eating ANY food with texture. He also has an incredibly LOOOONNNNGGGGG memory and even after 3 yrs, will not eat smoothies because 3 yrs ago he ate one and threw up (he was sick). He used to eat them all the time. Even now at 6.5, he is a picky eater but he is getting better. I think age is helping. He still won't willingly eat meat outside of breaded or stuffed in a sausage casing. We have a 3 bite rule, you don't have to eat it all but you do have to eat 3 bites. I would say that he adds a new food to his list every 3 months. Last week I got him to try cherries when we were on vacation by having a pit spitting contest off the deck. He wanted to spit pits so bad that he ate a cherry. He now says that cherries are delicious and will request them for his fruit choice. Last summer he nearly puked out a cherry that I had him try. He added ham lunch meat a few months back which is a nice variety to his hard and fast sunbutter and jelly sandwiches.

 

Our rule is that you always have to eat your veggie, but you don't have to finish the main dish. And I often offer a sunbutter and jelly sandwich as a bribe to eat his dinner--if he eats everything on his plate (with the main dish being about 5 bites), he can have a sandwich.

 

There are still many foods that I don't like. DH will sometimes cook up a dinner that I have to wash down with water and try not to gag. But as I'm the main cook, I just don't make things I don't like. So I try to be understanding. And pray that as he ages, he will get less picky.

[Daisy]

I respectfully disagree with you. I know a couple adults who grew up during the war in Europe. They knew hunger very well, living in a ghetto. They nevertheless admit that there were things they would not eat & their poor mothers despaired. For ex, these kids were starving & thin & gaunt but when horse meat was procured by the fortunate mom (at huge cost and the selling of valued possessions), one of them would rather go hungry & just eat the one small potato that was the daily ration.

 

Sure, when you're starving you'll eat anything. Grass, fabric, moldy bread, rotten vegetables. But we're not talking starving.....

 

When I was growing up in Poland there were periods of food rationing - we had little ration cards to go to the store with. Often enough, the store was empty - literally empty. So your little ration cards went unused that week. I would not say I knew hunger in the way that these older relatives who grew up in the war - they really were hungry and malnourished. I was not as when one staple was in short supply, usually another was more abudnant and there was always bread and milk available.

 

I think you're minimizing the problems some people have with taste & smell & you're also doing what the OP specifically asked not to happen: the standard "I just expected them to eat and they did."

 

Well you know, most people expect their kids to walk & talk & read and MOST kids do, with a bit of tweaking and support and pushing and prodding. BUT SOME DON'T.

 

Well, I happen to grow up dirt poor and I ate what was available including snake, turtle, and alligator. I ate whatever my Dad caught out of the lake that day. Perhaps not everyone has such a well-developed sense of self-preservation, but I've certainty never met a person who when it really came down to it would starve rather than eat what was put in front of them. I think maybe they've never known hunger.

 

I'm not minimizing the problem. I'll admit there are probably SOME children who have genuine biological problems that prevent their eating normal foods. I just don't believe that is the majority of picky eaters.

[Daisy]

Where on earth did this notion that children everywhere but America eat anything placed in front of them?! It's. Not. True. My oldest BIL was born in Europe in 1943 (my dh is a supreme caboose baby lol) and my MIL will tell you stories about how he and his later sibs had trouble eating some of the rations. Whevenever possible, childrens' young taste buds are accomodated. In my travels, I have never seen anyone make a child clean a plate. Certainly none of my dh's family abroad does anything of the sort.

 

Sure, if you are talking about starvation, a person will eat their own limbs, but it's not preferred.

 

I think she got it from the fact that I believe the phenomenon of picky eating is a luxury of the developed world. I'm of the belief that children who are truly hungry will eat just about anything. I ate in the garbage dumps of Cairo, Egypt. I never saw one child balk in the slightest at the food that was placed before them.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Daisy

[LibraryLover]

I think she got it from the fact that I believe the phenomenon of picky eating is a luxury of the developed world. I'm of the belief that children who are truly hungry will eat just about anything. I ate in the garbage dumps of Cairo, Egypt. I never saw one child balk in the slightest at the food that was placed before them.

 

Starvation is pretty extreme. People will eat each other when they are starving, but it's not the ideal.

[Daisy]

Starvation is pretty extreme. People will eat each other when they are starving, but it's not the ideal.

 

Definitely not a technique I'd advocate for breaking the picky eating habit.

[Cammie]

I have no clue how to deal with it when the kids get older. From the beginning we expected our children to eat what was placed before them. The idea of picky eating is decidedly American (or perhaps a developed country problem), imo.

 

Most people in the world don't have the luxury of being picky eaters. They are hungry and they eat what is available. Kids eat a huge variety of foods the world over. I don't know of any person in Thailand who cooks their kid fish sticks and tater tots because they refuse to eat Pad Thai. I'm convinced this is a learned behavior.

 

I had this very issue last night with kale. My 10yo usually loves kale, but I made crispy kale and she thought it was too salty (I don't usually cook with salt and had sprinkled on a bit). Crying, whining, etc. Whatever. She had to sit at the table until her kale was gone. If she had pushed it until bedtime I would have served her cold limp previously-crispy kale for breakfast. My kids know I mean business, so they rarely give me grief about it. In a world full of starving children, their missing a meal or two isn't going to make me feel too sympathetic.

 

Let me be clear though. I don't make my children clean their plates, but I expect them to give each food a decent effort. They don't have to like the food, but they must eat a minimum amount each and every time I serve it. I also allow for variation. My son doesn't care too much for cooked broccoli. Okay, fine. When I make broccoli, I save a few raw pieces for him. I'm cool with that, but he still has to eat his broccoli. And we are the same as the pp. No seconds of anything unless you've eaten everything on your plate. No dessert unless you've eaten your healthy food.

 

And yes, kids follow in their parent's footsteps. I think it is a wonderful gift to their children, when a picky parent puts on a smile and eats that food even when they don't like it.

 

 

Diasy - I usually agree with you on everything but I think I will have to respectfully disagree. There is nothing "American" or "developed world" about picky eating. Over here there are plenty of Indian families who children are also very picky. I agree - there may be something about poverty that eliminates pickiness but among the middle class - kids can be just as picky. One thing mothers do here (that drives me crazy) is they will hand feed their children for a very long time (I've seen 8,9,10 year old be hand fed.) The mothers will follow the child around for an hour and pop a handful of food into the child's mouth when he isn't paying atteniton.

 

BTW - my picky eater probably doesn't even have 10 things on his list. He is 5. He will eat what he likes. He will not eat the rest. I ask him to simply touch his tongue to new foods and sometimes that will lead to a bite. Pretty much I feed him what I know he will eat. I simply cannot make every meal a battle - it is unfair to all of us. I just hope that someday he grows out of this!

[Joanne]

Diasy - I usually agree with you on everything but I think I will have to respectfully disagree. There is nothing "American" or "developed world" about picky eating. Over here there are plenty of Indian families who children are also very picky. I agree - there may be something about poverty that eliminates pickiness but among the middle class - kids can be just as picky. One thing mothers do here (that drives me crazy) is they will hand feed their children for a very long time (I've seen 8,9,10 year old be hand fed.) The mothers will follow the child around for an hour and pop a handful of food into the child's mouth when he isn't paying atteniton.

 

BTW - my picky eater probably doesn't even have 10 things on his list. He is 5. He will eat what he likes. He will not eat the rest. I ask him to simply touch his tongue to new foods and sometimes that will lead to a bite. Pretty much I feed him what I know he will eat. I simply cannot make every meal a battle - it is unfair to all of us. I just hope that someday he grows out of this!

 

I disagree. Some picky eaters are born. Some are made. Some are somewhat picky and can either stay that way OR broaden their range based on parental\caregiver response.

 

I have had several of all types come through my daycare.

 

The reason I am certain some picky kids are made of US\western culture is because their list includes a predictable list of foods. Foods I believe create or reinforce the picky palate. *Certain brands, etc.

 

I believe over reliance on dairy, hot dogs, chicken nuggets, etc can create picky eaters.

 

Yes, organically based narrow palates exist, but I think threads here often fail to acknowledge the full representation of what comprises the picky population.

 

I also want to add that in my daycare, with a dozen of picky eaters over the years ALL ate more in my setting than with their parents. My rules were you don't have to eat anything in particular but you got limited servings - you couldn't fill up on bread and cheese.

 

The above is also why I never allowed outside food.

[Cammie]

Hmm trying to think this through. If a child is a picky eater in India and has Indian parents who eat Indian food, how can pickiness be created by western food habits? I am not necessarily in disagreement with you - just trying to understand the position.

 

I agree, all pickiness probably does not have the same root cause. Some kids may be overly sensitive to textures/smells/etc. Some kids may have some fear issues. Some may have allergies. Some kids may be opposed to trying new things of any kind. Some kids just don't like certain foods. Some kids will insist on eating the same foods over and over. Some kids will only eat their favorite foods. Kids in all countries have favorite foods. May not be chicken nuggest and fries but that doesn't mean that the child doesn't insist on eating only their favorite thing.

 

I guess I just don't see the link between "western" food habits and pickiness.

[amydavis]

I admit that I haven't read all the replies, but I plan to in the morning. I'm up way too late! I'm not sure if anyone has already suggested this, but this is what I do.

My ds10 is extremely picky. He has "dry-heaved", thrown-up, etc.

I believe continued exposure helps. I don't have any hard rules, but basically I begin by requiring that he tolerate the food on his plate. The next time I serve the food, I will require him to smell it. Ok, I know that sounds weird, but...that's what I do. We may stay on this step for awhile. It just depends on how often I serve it, and how resistant he is to the food in question. We then work our way up to having to lick the food (not bite, just lick). Once again, sounds odd. But...

Eventually we get to the one bite stage. I think the baby steps of gradual and consistent exposure helps. We have discovered a couple of foods that he ended up liking by using this method. We discovered a few that he could tolerate (meaning eat a bite or two). And there were some, such as mashed potatoes, that he truly had an aversion to eating. (Mashed potatoes caused much dry-heaving...).

 

Hope that helps!

 

Just wanted to add that I will usually always have at least one thing that he will like. On the rare occasion that I don't, I do not make alternate meals. However, I do allow him to make a pb&j or a grilled cheese, while still requiring the exposure to the other foods.

Edited July 9, 2010 by amydavis
I didn't want anyone to think I was starving my ds! :)

[Joanne]

I guess I just don't see the link between "western" food habits and pickiness.

 

 

I only have personal experience with "western kids". I am not, and indeed can't, comment on the types and intensity of pickiness other than in the US.

Of those I've seen who I believe are picky due to parental allowance, it has been exacerbated by kid-centered food, convenience foods, fast food.

 

As I shared, I don't believe pickiness is only caused by one thing. I also don't think that it is *solved* by the same set of tools.

 

But I do believe there is something physiologically and perhaps behaviorally related to chicken nuggets, grilled cheese, white bread, french fries, hot dogs (you know, the things that make up the typical "kid menu" at a restaurant) that creates pickiness in some of the cases I have seen.

 

I also think undiagnosed/under treated dairy allergy respresents a percentage of pickiness.

[Peela]

I dont care whether the pickiness is western or not. This is the reality- we have picky kids. They are not starving and honestly probably wont, so its not part of their or our reality to compare them to starving cultures.

 

I have a picky dh and a picky ds14. If dh werent so picky, I woudl probably be firmer on ds14, but since dh empathises so much, its hard to be hard on ds14.

I have tried many things. I dont force someone to sit there and eat though- i think that is disrespectful in a way I dont feel comfortable with. I do say there is nothing else, but a while later, there is usually fruit. Or a meal one makes oneself.

 

I dont know the answer. I try and please at least 2 or 3 our of 4 of us at each meal but it is rare I can hit all 4 of us at once. Dh is vegetarian, but is gluten intolerant and doesnt like beans/lentils or green vegetables. Ds woudl lke to live on cereal, white bread and meat, but will eat raw vegetables and most fruit, so I can kind of balance him out.

 

Sometimes I just make what I want, and dd will usually eat it. Sometimes I go on strike when dh and ds get too whiny. SOmetiems dh and ds will eat what I make because they cant be bothered making anything themselves.

 

I have learned to ask everyoen if they want me to cook dinner for them before I start-and i tell them what I am making- that way I am not wasting food.

[Alice]

I haven't read all the replies. I'll just say there is hope if what you are looking for is for an ultimate healthy eater as an adult. I was very picky as a child...close to your son but maybe slightly more variety. What I remember is that it truly made me sick to even think about trying certain foods. People would say "just try it" or "you can't even taste it" and it just wasn't something I could do. Maybe I was just a spoiled Western kid but the reality was I couldn't make myself do it.

 

My Mom did all the "right" things when I was a baby. She modeled eating good food, made all her own baby food (even her own yogurt), breastfed, etc. My parents eat very well, pretty much anything and modeled that when I was a kid. I'm an only child so who knows how sibs would have turned out. When I was a kid she handled it by just letting me be picky.

 

Gradually as I got older I've become better and better about trying new things. My husband still thinks I'm picky but he's a person who only has one food in the world he won't eat and that's something called bitter melon. I eat all sorts of veggies and fruits. My Mom still comes to my house opens the fridge and says things like "Eggplant! I'm so proud of you honey." :)

 

Not very helpful, but just to say that even if the problem isn't "solved" as a kid, there is hope for him later. Some of the new research on the whole concept of picky eaters and being a "supertaster" is really interesting to me. Maybe it's because it just validates my own quirkiness but I think it's interesting. Below are two links.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster

 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/06/16/salt.taste/index.html

[Paige]

 

But I do believe there is something physiologically and perhaps behaviorally related to chicken nuggets, grilled cheese, white bread, french fries, hot dogs (you know, the things that make up the typical "kid menu" at a restaurant) that creates pickiness in some of the cases I have seen.

 

 

I have 2 very picky eaters. They were so bad a few years ago that we went to a feeding clinic. They were picky; had texture and sensory issues, had horrible reflux, and I am absolutely sure they would have died before voluntarily eating something off their list. I am sure because they made themselves so sick several times that without my intervention, they never would have been able to refeed themselves without help. They were so weak they couldn't stand because of messed up blood sugar. Some kids end up on feeding tubes because their aversion to most foods is so great. I'm sure their parents would crawl on their knees and beg if that would convince their child to please just eat a Happy Meal or hot dog. I think it is possible that we don't see truly picky eaters among starving countries because those children have died.

 

When we were at the feeding clinic, we were told that many kids like mine go on a "white food" diet. It includes most of the processed foods you mention- white bread, McDonald's chicken nuggets only, french fries, macaroni and cheese, cookies, etc. (this wasn't my kids' list, just a general idea of a white food diet). The reason kids drift toward these foods is not because we give them fast food junk and cater to that, but because they all are: bland, uniform in texture, easy to chew and swallow, unlikely to cause reflux, the color is not offensive, there's no prominent smells, etc. I think what you are seeing as the cause, is actually the effect of something else. My girls would only eat McDonald's chicken nuggets. If they had never been exposed to McDonald's I seriously doubt they would have eaten any chicken or meat at all. Their diet would have only been more restricted.

 

After a lot of hard work, we have them now eating an almost normal diet and I would consider them just slightly more picky than the average child. We are thrilled! But, we can still see their underlying issues with texture, reflux, and even basic muscle weakness around the mouth and tongue affecting them.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Paige

[Joanne]

I have 2 very picky eaters. They were so bad a few years ago that we went to a feeding clinic. They were picky; had texture and sensory issues, had horrible reflux, and I am absolutely sure they would have died before voluntarily eating something off their list. I am sure because they made themselves so sick several times that without my intervention, they never would have been able to refeed themselves without help. They were so weak they couldn't stand because of messed up blood sugar. Some kids end up on feeding tubes because their aversion to most foods is so great. I'm sure their parents would crawl on their knees and beg if that would convince their child to please just eat a Happy Meal or hot dog. I think it is possible that we don't see truly picky eaters among starving countries because those children have died.

 

When we were at the feeding clinic, we were told that many kids like mine go on a "white food" diet. It includes most of the processed foods you mention- white bread, McDonald's chicken nuggets only, french fries, macaroni and cheese, cookies, etc. (this wasn't my kids' list, just a general idea of a white food diet). The reason kids drift toward these foods is not because we give them fast food junk and cater to that, but because they all are: bland, uniform in texture, easy to chew and swallow, unlikely to cause reflux, the color is not offensive, there's no prominent smells, etc. I think what you are seeing as the cause, is actually the effect of something else. My girls would only eat McDonald's chicken nuggets. If they had never been exposed to McDonald's I seriously doubt they would have eaten any chicken or meat at all. Their diet would have only been more restricted.

 

After a lot of hard work, we have them now eating an almost normal diet and I would consider them just slightly more picky than the average child. We are thrilled! But, we can still see their underlying issues with texture, reflux, and even basic muscle weakness around the mouth and tongue affecting them.

 

This is a great post. And I do know an acknowledge that there are people who are organically "picky". Just as you posted from your experience, which is anecdotal, I post from mine.

 

The children I have seen that I believe are not *organically* picky have been made so by parental indulgence, food that limits palate and nourishment and habit. I have had a significant enough number of these children in my home for 2-3 meals a day for 5 days a week.

[LibraryLover]

I absolutly think kids with sensory issues would be drawn to processed foods like that. I agree...it's uniform, it tastes the same all of the time, it's white, it is completely predicatable. I think this is prboably why one of mine stuck to same vanilla yogurt for so long. It was comforting in a way that the riot of color and variety I prefer was not. This is why you see small children who want the same foods almost all of the time. While an adult might the variety of a new food each day, many children seek what is comfortable and familar. How do we keep the predictability some children might need and skip the processed stuff is the question. How can we help these children learn to find comfort in other foods that are healthier until they are can come to feel safe with greater variety?

 

This is one reason I didn't worry about my small child's food variety. If she ate yogurt, chicken soup (no carrots), small pasta with butter, plain chicken, watermelon etc., I was fine. Now, she didn't have long term issues, so we were never close to starvation. I have never agreed with the idea that very small children must eat a large variety of foods to be healthy. Having been around nursing friends for over 20 years raising our children together, I know young adults who eat and enjoy nearly anything and everything, but who were only about nursing as toddlers, and even 3 yr olds.

Edited July 9, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Daisy]

I have 2 very picky eaters. They were so bad a few years ago that we went to a feeding clinic. They were picky; had texture and sensory issues, had horrible reflux, and I am absolutely sure they would have died before voluntarily eating something off their list. I am sure because they made themselves so sick several times that without my intervention, they never would have been able to refeed themselves without help. They were so weak they couldn't stand because of messed up blood sugar. Some kids end up on feeding tubes because their aversion to most foods is so great. I'm sure their parents would crawl on their knees and beg if that would convince their child to please just eat a Happy Meal or hot dog. I think it is possible that we don't see truly picky eaters among starving countries because those children have died.

 

When we were at the feeding clinic, we were told that many kids like mine go on a "white food" diet. It includes most of the processed foods you mention- white bread, McDonald's chicken nuggets only, french fries, macaroni and cheese, cookies, etc. (this wasn't my kids' list, just a general idea of a white food diet). The reason kids drift toward these foods is not because we give them fast food junk and cater to that, but because they all are: bland, uniform in texture, easy to chew and swallow, unlikely to cause reflux, the color is not offensive, there's no prominent smells, etc. I think what you are seeing as the cause, is actually the effect of something else. My girls would only eat McDonald's chicken nuggets. If they had never been exposed to McDonald's I seriously doubt they would have eaten any chicken or meat at all. Their diet would have only been more restricted.

 

After a lot of hard work, we have them now eating an almost normal diet and I would consider them just slightly more picky than the average child. We are thrilled! But, we can still see their underlying issues with texture, reflux, and even basic muscle weakness around the mouth and tongue affecting them.

 

I love this post. It gets to what I was trying to say. Yes, there are kids who are genetically predisposed to being picky eaters (or selective eaters or sensory-based eaters), but if the child is never exposed to the fast food and overprocessed junk they don't have to grow up eating only McDonalds nuggets and Maceroni and cheese.

 

I like the mention of hard work. This is obviously not something to just "give up on". We continue to work towards behavior modification so that the child can grow into an adult who can function in society and live a long and HEALTHY life.

[Sun]

We have had that EXACT SAME SITUATION, except I think I might have been able to count up to about 12 "acceptable" foods (especially if toast, untoasted bread, and rolls counted as three separate foods!). DS was almost phobic about new foods; he'd panic if they were even set on the edge of his plate.

 

What worked for us was to change the dynamic. I was extremely picky as a kids, and I knew that the longer I stared at a food, the more worked up about it I got. So I knew that forcing DS to sit there until he ate it was not a good solution for us (DS is way too much like me in this regard).

 

What we finally did was come up with an incentive system for trying new foods. One point for a bite of a new food or one he "doesn't like." He could get another point for a second bite. Five points for a food that he he starts to eat regularly. Points are tallied on a sheet on the wall. 25 points equals a reward of some sort (go out for ice cream, go see a movie, buy a small Lego set, etc.). We totally stopped asking him to eat or commenting on what he didn't eat.

 

This totally changed the dynamic at our house. All of a sudden, trying new foods became something that he wanted to do instead of something that he approached with fear and revulsion. He still won't eat everything, but his repertoire has greatly expanded, and he's no longer panic-stricken and ill at just the idea of trying something new.

[stripe]

I like how so much of picky eaters' behavior is blamed on the kids. How many kids get to choose what their families feed them -- be it Cheetos or organic escarole? Some kids are going to prefer processed food simply because it's all they've ever known. It shouldn't really be about blaming anyone.

[Garga]

OP here.

 

I'm late getting back to everyone, and I'd usually let the thread lie low after so many hours since the last post, but I wanted to give everyone a HUGE thank you!

 

I wish I could quote and comment on everyone, but there's just not enough space. Lots of food for thought here (pun intended :D). I pretty much agree with everyone and am going to implement a lot of the tips given.

 

My plan:

 

1. Breakfast is ok. Pancakes (with lots of eggs in the batter) and toast and milk.

 

2. Lunch is ok. PB&J sandwich with oranges for ds5; Turkey slices or ham and we'll try different fruits for ds7; v8 Fusion juice to drink.

 

3. Dinner is the problem. I'm going to try one person's suggestion to pick 7 meals and serve those same meals for a month (or longer) so they can get used to them. I've picked meals that the boys have been able to eat in the past with fussing, but less fussing than usual. One of the meals is pizza, as they like it homemade, so I can control the wheat in the dough and the amount of cheese on top.

 

One of the meals is pork and carrots. I HATE PORK. DS7 actually manages to eat about 4 bites of it before he realizes he "doesn't like it anymore." But they know I hate pork and are looking forward to Monday with glee when they get to watch me gag down the pork :tongue_smilie:. Lead by example, right?

 

I'll try that chart where you get a point per bite. That will give me a break from saying, "Ok, take a bite now" throughout the whole dinner. If they start to eat just a few more foods for the incentives, then it's an easy solve.

 

The unhealthy foods that they like (which I didn't serve all the time, usually just twice a week), are completely off the list for this month.

 

If things don't start to change a teeny bit over the next few months (I'm not expecting a miracle)...it might be time to see a nutritionist, look into the sensory issues or food allergies.

 

I never knew that people had it even worse, where their kids went on feeding tubes to eat. You have my complete sympathy. I came here to get :grouphug:s, but I think I need to give you guys the :grouphug:s.

 

Thanks all!