Homeschoolers versus public schoolers in churches....

[Just a Jen in Mississippi]

Last night, my husband and I were talking to my neighbor, a youth pastor. We were talking about church and some of the problems facing churches today and he mentioned the big division among homeschoolers and public schoolers. He said it's been a big problem. He said that at one church in particular (locally speaking) that the homeschoolers planned and did a lot on their own, to the exclusion of the public schooled kids and that it was causing hard feelings. His wife teaches in the public school system and their kids are there too. He did make a comment about the stereotypes, but also mentioned knowing a homeschooled teenager that could not read.

 

So my mind is trying to process this conversation. On one hand, I want to scream if a homeschooled kid with no learning disabilities can't read! I have no idea about the person he mentioned, but I hear stuff like that all the time. I just hope that people that choose to homeschool would actually do justice to their children and teach them! If someone meets 10 homeschoolers who are smart and social and 1 that can't read or act right in pubic, that's the one they will mention every time homeschooling comes up. It's frustrating.

 

But then I ponder the first issue he mentioned with the homeschooled kids doing things with other homeschooled kids. I can under stand that. Birds of a feather flock together. But I can imagine that the parents of the public schooled kids would look at homeschoolers very negatively if they are being exclusive......especially in the church. I'm sure many of you read the posts this week about the comment that a lady at church made to one of our board members saying "Homeschooled" and walking off. I wonder if this is part of the problem in that church as well?

 

It's just amazing to me that there always has to be some great divide in such a diverse country. I've always prided myself for being able to not put public school down when asked why I homeschool. I don't want to offend anyone or my friends that have kids in public school, but I realize that I am involved in the divisiveness by wanting (actually preferring) my kids to be involved with other homeschoolers. Nearly everything we do is with homeschoolers. And this Sunday, we are visiting a home church that is ALL homeschoolers. Not that they set out to exclude, it's just the families know and invite others and they happen to all homeschool. I know two of the families that go to that church because of the circles I run in and that's how we got invited. I think now, it would be hard for a public school family to come in and feel comfortable, and that's sad too.

 

Oh and to clarify, my friends with public schooled kids actually live in another state or we would be getting together regularly with them. So, as it as, our close friends here all homeschool.

 

Well, this probably has no good point. Like I said, I'm just trying to process this division. I've never thought about it affecting churches until now. I'm sure there are hurt feelings on both sides and stereotypes run rampant in situations like this out of defensiveness. I guess over the years, I've been so prepared to defend and support my homeschooling choices, that I haven't realized how the other side must feel.

 

And can someone explain to me what "crunchy" means like when talking about extended breastfeeding or such topics! I've heard it used for years on these boards, but never really understood the term. :001_smile:

[SnowWhite]

The number of families homeschooling in our church has exploded in the past year or two. We found that there was a certain amount of hurt feelings when the homeschooling families began having socialization times to the exclusion of public schooled students. So we are trying to include any public schooled students who are interested to attend homeschool group events. Of course we have some things that meet during ps time or that are academic in nature and would be a repeat for ps students (like a science fair). This has seemed to help a bit.

 

Crunchy I think means natural and wholesome, like granola is.

[Plaid Dad]

And can someone explain to me what "crunchy" means like when talking about extended breastfeeding or such topics! I've heard it used for years on these boards, but never really understood the term. :001_smile:

 

It's "crunchy" as in granola; it implies a natural, "green," hippie-esque style. Sometimes you'll hear "earthy-crunchy" as well.

 

Not everyone who is "crunchy" leans left politically, though. Some of us are crunchy cons. :)

[G5052]

And frankly I don't let it get to me. The public school families have lots of activities and events associated with their schools that the homeschooled people never get invited to, and yet I find it ironic that the homeschool families are supposed to include the public school families!

 

We've informally handled it by having only daytime activities among the homeschool families during the school year, and inviting everyone in the summer.

[Chris in VA]

There's only one other homeschooling family in our church. The topic just doesn't come up much for us. I think it has to do with the personalities of our kids--our eldest son (homeschooled) is an introvert, a little socially awkward, and that's not because of homeschooling. Our second son has the hard stuff going on, so everyone prays for him, and he's public schooled, but no one seems to make a connection btwn that and his problems. Our daughter is sweet and seen as rather "perfect"--I don't mean she is, at all, but she's got that "respects others" vibe, and she's fairly attractive, and all that--and the congregation has watched her grow up, too. She's a "teacher's dream" sort of kid that's easy to like (so far!). So, no one really attributes any of the kids' characteristics to being homeschooled. We are the odd ones out, but the whole public school vs homeschooled thing just isn't there.

 

I'm about to start a thread about pulling your child from church-based school when you are in leadership at that church--I'd love to have you read it.

[Jennifer in NH]

Not everyone who is "crunchy" leans left politically, though. Some of us are crunchy cons. :)

That's me!

 

I find the remark about excluding public school kids a little odd...We go on many feild trips with other homeschoolers, but ps school kids get together with each other all the time too! Plus, most of the times our homeschool group gets together, is during ps hours.

So, far, I haven't come across this at our chruch...maybe I just hang out with the homeschoolers too much!;)

For the record, try really hard not to offend parents of ps kids...but, honestly, I am homeschooling because of what the ps systems do not teach and do teach...sometimes explaining without hurting feelings means i just leave some of my reasons for homeschooling out of the explaination.

[Surfside Academy]

I've found that if a parent already has a bias against homeschoolers, they will jump on any excuse to criticize. I've seen it many times where parents will mention the one hs child that can't read or who is socially awkward but are blind to academically struggling or "left out" kids they see every day at their kids public schools. I'm not saying all ps parents do this but I do know some who just don't like homeschooling because it's "different" and goes against the norm.

 

We have a large homeschool population at our church and I've found that the ps kids interact with the homeschoolers pretty well. We have a pretty large church however so that might have something to do with it.

[Philothea]

We had homeschooled kids at our church growing up and I can tell you that this is what really happens, often, when someone says "those homeschooled kids can't even _________." Usually the ps kids would have some kind of challenging trivia fact or a word that is difficult to read memorized and try to purposely trip up the homeschooler. Often, they did the same thing to the kids who went to private school.

 

On a side note, when I was younger I thought that the kids in our local parochial school were stupid. That was until I tried to help my cousin with her homework, who was two grades below me, I was not able to help because it was too far above my level and I was a good student.

 

I think until more understanding of homeschooling is part of the attitude of all communities, churches and schools-- this division will continue. I also think that many of the proponents of public schools will have to admit that most of these schools are largely ineffective and many are on a course of destruction that is just spiraling out of control.

[Just a Jen in Mississippi]

Thanks for the definition of crunchy!

 

I think the issue isn't so much about field trips and such as it is about the cliques that are forming.......at least that's what I gather. It's honestly been a non-issue for me as I'm glued into our homeschooling circle. I just wonder if the hostility between the two groups is growing as the number of homeschoolers increase.

 

Jennifer in NH......I'm the same way when explaining my reasons for homeschooling. I do purposefully leave out some reasons in order not to offend. Sometimes that's hard to do since I student taught in our public schools and that definitely shaped my opinion and ultimately led me to stay at home and homeschool my children instead of teach other people's kids.

 

Thanks for the link Plaid Dad.......I'm off to read more about crunchy cons!:)

[Emmy]

At our church it isn't the public school families that look down on the homeschoolers it's the private school families. :glare:

 

Very few families homeschool at my church but the private Christian school is *very* popular. The families that attend there can be quite cliquey too. *sigh* It's hard to explain why we chose homeschooling instead.....

[Magnolia]

And frankly I don't let it get to me. The public school families have lots of activities and events associated with their schools that the homeschooled people never get invited to, and yet I find it ironic that the homeschool families are supposed to include the public school families!

 

 

:iagree:

 

Dd also participates in the local soccer/basketball/softball teams and practices will be canceled/re-arranged if the practice falls on an evening event the public school kids want to attend. Usually, the practice will be scheduled for the next evening but we can't attend due to our tennis lesson is that night. So we lose out everytime. :ack2:

[In The Great White North]

Granted I've only been homeschooling a year and a half, but I have NEVER heard anyone offer any program or activity and SAY it is ONLY for homeschoolers.

 

Up here, in the great white north, the law requires them to admit homeschoolers to any activity the school has (including sports, taking a specific class, etc) but I've noticed that the activities are always scheduled to accommodate their school day too. (And, no, they don't invite homeschoolers; even town sports info is sent home from school, not to every family in town.)

 

I don't see why anyone should expect homeschoolers to be any different.

[GailV]

Our church spans a couple of school districts, and the kids in district X tend to hang out together, as do the kids from district Y. Not totally, but there is a tendency, probably because they see each other all week.

 

Homeschooling is sort of its own district, when you think about it.

 

Of course, we're one of the few homeschooling families in our church, so if we made a homeschool clique it would be very, very small.:coolgleamA:

[mcconnellboys]

I have seen various sorts of divisions here over the years. Some who homeschool don't want their children to associate with anyone other than other homeschoolers. Some extend that to not wanting to associate with anyone other than other homeschoolers within their coop and/or church, etc.

 

Humans are social creatures, for the most part, and sort of naturally seek out groups where they feel they can belong. It's secure to belong somewhere, isn't it?

 

You see this sort of behaviour begin in younger kids who gang up here and there, but the groups are generally constantly shifting and reforming. By the time kids get to be teens, their groups tend to become more set, and if they're in school, they often come with labels: cheerleader, jock, nerd, emo, etc.

 

We tend to think that adults don't need this anymore, but I think everyone needs security. Sometimes, I think, folks get invested in a particular behaviour or group and can't let it go because that would be letting go a huge feeling of security for them - like losing their identity, or at least a part of it. I think some are conscious that they are excluding others through this sort of behaviour and a few even relish that feeling of power. But I tend to think that most are not really using excluding behaviours consciously and would be open to change and inclusion of extra folks in their circles if the behaviours were just pointed out to them (although this might have to occur on a regular basis for a while).

 

We have worked to try to have a very open group of homeschoolers in the area in which I live, and yet some continue to feel excluded. Mostly this occurs when folks come in and try to change the focus of the group to be less inclusive in some way (which they can already find in ample abundance, elsewhere).

 

All we can try to do is dialogue with them about our goals for the group at large and continue to offer them a place at the table, if they will only follow our premise of not excluding others.

 

We have area agencies who regularly accuse even our group of trying to be overly exclusive and trying to shun public schoolers, etc., just because we ask them for programming oftentimes in the early afternoon from about 1-3.

 

Now why do we do that? I think everyone here knows why: because we can get most of our work at home done by then, hopefully leaving only enough that we can get it made up the next day or so; and because we, too, have after school activities beginning with those public schoolers after 3 o'clock, such as soccer, baseball, swimming, scouting, etc.

 

We're not seeking to purposefully shun those who attended organized schools, we're seeking to fit one more thing into our schedules in the best open spot we can find. We recite our afterschool activities, in vain, for those who run these agencies. They refuse to believe us! SO, in at least some cases, I have found here that people decide what they want to believe about homeschoolers and pass around negative stories in spite of all we might try to do to facilitate understanding.

 

Navigating human behaviour can be like trying to walk daintily through a field of slimy mud, I think, LOL......

[Diane]

I"m wondering if the homeschooled children do things WHILE the PS children are in school...that's a valid reason for not getting together.

 

After reading this post, I feel so blessed to be attending the church that I am. We have two pastors, they have ten children between the two and they homeschool. Same for the music director, etc...however...I see pictures of the youth group trips and get togethers and homeschooled, public school, private school, they are all acting goofy in the pictures and having a grand ole' time.

 

I don't see much division here in my city, I"m sure it exists, I guess I"m sheltered. :)

 

I wonder if your Youth Pastor is a little biased since his wife is a teacher at a PS. Every child is different, some have learning disabilities...if that child that can not read was in PS, would that child be better off, or about the same?

There have been MANY students who have graduated from high school- public school- who can't read- we've all read about it...so this isn't a homeschool/public school program, it's about a child with a learning disability.

[*anj*]

Many good points have already been made.

 

I think it boils down to people feeling inherently judged by anyone else's choice. When we choose a certain mode of education, type of school, kind of church, way to eat, style of dress, etc. we are thereby choosing against another. And that is threatening to some people. So I think that some people see an active homeschool group and think "Well, obviously I'm not welcome." I had a woman say that to me regarding a weekly play date at the park. She asked me whether or not her ps children were allowed to join us. Well of course!!! Our boys had attended nursery school together. I remember when her dd was born. Why would we suddenly stop playing at the park together just because her dc were in ps?

 

And one more thing...

We attend a very small church with less than 20 families. There are four families that homeschool, but between us we have 14 children. That means that about half the children at our church are homeschooled. A few attend Christian schools and the rest are ps. At this church I feel like I'm in the majority, and I feel supported by our pastor and other people at church. My old church was much, much bigger. Again, there were about 4 families who homeschooled, and we were way in the minority. Also, I felt like there was a not so subtle anti-homeschool bias on the part of the pastor and others.

[Mrs Mungo]

Last night, my husband and I were talking to my neighbor, a youth pastor. We were talking about church and some of the problems facing churches today and he mentioned the big division among homeschoolers and public schoolers. He said it's been a big problem. He said that at one church in particular (locally speaking) that the homeschoolers planned and did a lot on their own, to the exclusion of the public schooled kids and that it was causing hard feelings. <snip>

 

Do the homeschoolers have a support group within the church? Our old church had a huge support group and homeschoolers did all sorts of things-they had sport teams, held dances, etc. They don't get to participate in those sorts of activities through the school system so they made their own. It's unfair to call it "exclusionary" in my opinion. And as Diane said, many of these groups meet when public school is in session.

 

I knew public school kids who graduated without *really* learning to read. Why would we suppose *ALL* homeschoolers would do it better? There are curves within each population.

[Ellie]

And frankly I don't let it get to me. The public school families have lots of activities and events associated with their schools that the homeschooled people never get invited to, and yet I find it ironic that the homeschool families are supposed to include the public school families!quote]

 

ITA. This just sounds like an excuse to point out the supposed down side of homeschooling. I guess "sour grapes" isn't exactly the right phrase, but there has to be something similar that makes the point.

[Nestof3]

I can speak from some experience in that we actually left a church where there was divisiveness about homeschooling, but not from us. My husband and I were taking a parenting class there and were challenged by the leader that he believed parents should only homeschool if they were specially called to do so. It took a special calling to do something so different.

 

This church also had a private school on the lot. I was asked a few time (in a serious way) to reconsider putting my kids in their school and teaching there.

 

We ended up leaving this church -- and all institutional churches -- after studying the scriptures. They are pretty clear about how the body of believers is supposed to function -- elders, not one pastor. No boards of so and so, several paid positions, female secretary spending more time with the preacher than his own wife and so forth.

 

The women also got together during the day (moms only time) while their kids were in school, and this didn't work out for me.

 

Now, I know I'll step on someone's toes here, so know right now that I do not know YOUR children (children of anyone reading this forum), so I am NOT speaking of your public or private schooled chidren. I cannot even speak about your homeschooled children. I am only speaking from the experience WE have with homeschooled, private and public schooled children. For us, we have only ever found like-minded families whose children's relationships with our children were really beneficial among homeschooled children. We have found some homeschooled children that were still too much influenced negatively by the world, but we have never encountered any institutionally educated children that were not too tainted by the world.

 

Again, I am not speaking of "your" children -- I don't know any of your families in real life. This is not about any of you. I am only speaking from experience. We are very conservative as a family, and go against most of what the world feels is acceptable for young people (for adults too). The only families we have ever met who shun modern dating, who understand the importance of modesty in both dress and behavior, who have children who are respectful of their parents, and so forth have been families who have a homeschool vision. I am not saying that the children have taken every course at home, but that home education is a big part of their life.

 

I can only speak from experience here. I am not bringing down condemnation on those who do not homeschool.

 

At this point, we housechurch, and every family there homeschools, so we don't have that sort of situation where we are now. Also, we gave up on our oldest having any decent relationships with the young men in our neighborhood because they were always engaged in some sort of activity that we did not approve of (sleazy video games) or because my son found them too immature to prove to be good fellowship.

[Janet in WA]

You know, youth pastors are human. They can have views that are skewed by bias (among other things). I wouldn't necessarily rely on this youth pastor's expressed concern about this "big" problem to mean the problem really is that big or widespread.

 

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if someone knew (or knew of) a homeschooled teen who didn't read well. It would actually surprise me greatly if homeschooled teens were spared the learning challenges that ps and private schooled teens suffer. Interesting, though, that this youth pastor feels the need to connect the two "problems" in the same conversation. Remember what I said about bias?

[Diana in OR]

:iagree:

Many good points have already been made.

 

I think it boils down to people feeling inherently judged by anyone else's choice. When we choose a certain mode of education, type of school, kind of church, way to eat, style of dress, etc. we are thereby choosing against another. And that is threatening to some people. So I think that some people see an active homeschool group and think "Well, obviously I'm not welcome."

 

 

I absolutely agree with this. Many years ago, I taught in a private Christian school, that was housed in a church (but not sponsored by that church). I did happen to attend that church, though. This was in the 1980s, when hsing was just in its infancy. There was much tension and public school/private school debate within the congregation. Even as a teacher at the private school, I couldn't understand the conflict that it invoked--like everyone knew what was best for everyone else's children.

[Tami]

We don't have any exclusive homeschool functions at our church, other than an online mom's support group. Personally, our identity with Christ comes before our identity as HSers. Therefore, if we ever got together on an evening or week-end, I wouldn't dream of segregating by HS versus traditional school. The argument that the schools do it so it's ok if we HSers do it doesn't hold water. We are called to a high standard of Christian love and unity, regardless of what others do or don't do.

 

If we had a homeschool mom's support meeting, I doubt the traditional schoolers would feel comfortable joining us. However, if they want to sit in, what is the harm. They would probably get bored and not come back. It's just not a hill I would die on.

[Tami]

{}

[Plucky]

Yes, his points do seem very biased.

[ChristyB in TN]

Many good points have already been made.

 

I think it boils down to people feeling inherently judged by anyone else's choice. When we choose a certain mode of education, type of school, kind of church, way to eat, style of dress, etc. we are thereby choosing against another. And that is threatening to some people.

 

I think Anj pegged it. It's a bummer but it is true. I don't go to church anymore so I can't really respond to the youth group issue, but I can tell you that it is pretty standard behavior and that people are very well meaning but they sometimes aren't aware of how home schoolers tend to be judged pretty harshly and our every move seems to be watched for flaws. That's a bummer, too.

I'm crunchy. I used to be a crunchy con but I seem to be losing more and more of the "con" all the time. :D

[Tess in the Burbs]

our last church had some division over the Woman's Group. The elderly ladies wanted a daytime meeting. The working moms did not obviously. And stay at home moms like me? Well no matter what I choose I would make some angry. The working moms also did not like the MOPS group starting up. I told them if they wanted an evening group then do it! But they just said they were too busy. Ok, so I can't do it??????

 

People like division. My observation.

[OnTheBrink]

Our church of about 375ish has approximately 10 homeschooling families right now, with more coming up as babies and toddlers grow. I've never, ever heard anyone express any division or tension between families based on how they educate their children. That just blows my mind that people do that.

 

Our youth group is a diverse bunch of hs, ps and private schooled kids and no one excludes anyone, for any reason.

 

It is interesting to note, though, that every PS kid at our church is in an outlying district and none are in the district from the actual city we live in. Any of the kids who live in that district are either privately schooled or homeschooled.

[Mrs Mungo]

We don't have any exclusive homeschool functions at our church, other than an online mom's support group. Personally, our identity with Christ comes before our identity as HSers. Therefore, if we ever got together on an evening or week-end, I wouldn't dream of segregating by HS versus traditional school. The argument that the schools do it so it's ok if we HSers do it doesn't hold water. We are called to a high standard of Christian love and unity, regardless of what others do or don't do.

 

While I completely understand where you are coming from, if the point is to give homeschoolers a time and place to meet and relate to other homeschoolers like them you aren't accomplishing that if you have kids from the p/s there all the time.

 

I may be coming from a different place because our last church was HUGE with over 4,000 members (that's just members, not people who attend but don't join) and 3 services (anyone over 12 joined the adult worship service). It would have been *very* possible to attend regularly and not meet any other h/sers. In a small church it would be different and I can understand better the desire to be all-inclusive.