Do we punish him? Attitude, lying, didn't come home--long

[m0mmaBuck]

I've typed before about ongoing issues with DSS before his mom committed suicide as well as after. He is in counseling (psychiatric and behavioral). They have 'decided' that he lives in a different reality than the rest of us so he takes in what he hears/sees and twists it into what fits his world.

 

OK, so DSS came home from a Boy Scout camping trip yesterday. He came in the door and I looked him in the eyes said, "Hello H." The little ones followed suit. He walked right past me without acknowledging me, went in his room and laid down. I was just going to let it go because it was a battle I didn't what to fight but DH confronted him, asking why he didn't at least say "Hello." DSS stated he didn't hear me (DH was in the next room, has 80% hearing loss, and heard me and the kids) and that he was waiting for someone else to say "hi" first anyway. I said, well, generally when you come into the house you say "Hello" to let people know you are home. He then got in an argument with DH about how he had a great time at camp just wanted to go to bed and would talk to us later and didn't think he needed to be part of the family activities since he is 18. OK. Deep breath.

 

In the evening we went to the inlaws for dinner. After dinner we were in the living room and MIL started asking DSS about school and his plans for the summer/future. He basically ignored her, giving her vague answers, rolling his eyes, and staring at the TV. She shut off the TV so he would speak to her. He then proceeded to lie lie lie to his grandmother. In front of me. Knowing I was there and that I know the truth. I know he is not graduating on time because he is failing 3 classes. He told her he was walking at graduation and she should buy her tickets. He can't walk. He told her he is taking a zero hour (internet) class because he wants an extra credit. He needs that credit to make up for one of his failed classes so that he can take the max summer school load (2 classes) and have his diploma at the end of the summer. He told her he was going to the community college (hasn't been accepted because he didn't test well enough to sign up without a diploma in hand) next Fall and that he had saved money to pay for it (he has $45 in his account). So there I sat listening him lie to his grandmother, wondering if I call him out on his lies in front of her and become the bad person for making him look bad (his interpretation) or if I let it go and talk with her about it later. Well, I asked her to help me make coffee and talked to her about it in private. She said she wanted to speak to him about lying and why he can't just own up to his own choices and the true reality. We all love him and accept his shortcomings but we really wish he would just admit to where he is and deal with it. Anyway, he had driven himself there and the youngers were tired so I left.

 

Well, she talked with him last night. She said they had a good talk and he doesn't know why he needs to paint himself in a different light all the time. Even when things are good he wants them to be different. He will tell different people different stories and lose track of what is real. He promised MIL he would try to be more truthful. Then he left, but he never came home. He's not answering his cell. He's not at any friend's house that we know of. He had about 1/4 tank of gas and $45 in his account so he couldn't have gone far. I'm sure he'll come home because he doesn't really have anywhere to go and he's too dependent to be on his own for long.

 

But what do we do when he gets here?

Edited May 31, 2010 by m0mmaBuck
Update:

[Jan in SC]

Wow! I'm so sorry you and your family are dealing with this. I would call his psychiatrist immediately. I would make sure he is not suicidal or manic. It could be that he lies because his self-esteem is so low that he cannot face reality, or it could be that he lies because he doesn't see it as a lie, but his reality. I think I would hand this over to the psychiatrist. :grouphug: to you and your family!

[m0mmaBuck]

Wow! I'm so sorry you and your family are dealing with this. I would call his psychiatrist immediately. I would make sure he is not suicidal or manic. It could be that he lies because his self-esteem is so low that he cannot face reality, or it could be that he lies because he doesn't see it as a lie, but his reality. I think I would hand this over to the psychiatrist. :grouphug: to you and your family!

 

Thank you! Why didn't I think to call him? Grrrr... Sometimes I get so wrapped up in the situation that I can't see the obvious answer. Thank you! Thank you!

[hornblower]

The time for punishments is long gone. He's 18.

Set clear boundaries - 'Don't lie to me or in my presence. Be polite to me & our family.' I'd sit down with him & his counsellors & hammer out a plan for this summer - how he will behave, where he will live, what rules will he agree to follow & what you will do in return.

 

One other thing - I really dislike it when people quiz me about my plans too much. I'm a deeply private person & even with my family, there are times when I need to really be quiet about things a long time & think about things myself without relatives questioning me. Sometimes innocent questions really seem like badgering and nagging to me -- even though I know intellectually that they're not badgering. Especially when things are not going as I'd planned, especially when it seems like people are disappointed in my choices or I am frustrated by my options, I don't want people asking me about things.

 

I can easily see how MIL's probably innocent questions would have tipped me into a similar huff.

 

Also, I've btdt with just wanting to sneak into my room without talking to anyone. It's rude & I can see your perspective too - but I could also see cutting him some slack b/e sometimes you're just tired out from being around people & even saying "HI" CAN seem like it's too much. Perhaps he's just needing more space - physically and psychologically than you're giving him.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I've read a few of your posts about how he became so dependent and his mom's suicide. I feel for you. At this point, I don't think calling out his lies will help. He is 18. You need to get him through high school. Then give him a set time to get out on his own. If he were on his own, he would have to own up to the real world. He would need a job or to be a student.

I would just leave him be when he comes home b/c he is 18 and almost out of school. I would talk to my kids about his situation being different b/c of his different life circumstances and events. I would definitely give him a time limit on being in the house and not playing by the rules.

If he doesn't make it through summer school, have him take the GED test. I think in one of your posts that you said he may be failing on purpose. I can't remember though.

You need to get him through school and then out of the house so he isn't a bad influence on your younger kids.

[Starr]

Among more difficult possibilities he is probably feeling badly that he isn't doing well in school and embarrassed by lying.

[Guest janainaz]

My sister and I were raised by a horribly abusive mother (yes, not the only children on the planet to endure such circumstances). But my mother was exceptionally cruel to my sister and at one point had my father drive her to the orphanage, to leave her there. My mother told me she was not coming home, and that I should be prepared to deal with that. I was 7, and my sister was 11. My father did come back home with my sister and my mother went into a rage and screamed, "What are you doing with her here? I don't WANT HER!" This one selected story is the tip of the iceberg - my sister's childhood was miserable and as a result, she lived in her own reality. She told the most horrendous lies, it was almost to the point of insanity. She told her kids she had cancer and was undergoing chemotherapy, she told me horrible lies about my father and it stole years of my life from him, her lies destroyed lives - especially her own for many many years.

 

I don't know the scenario of your DSS, but the fact that his mother took her own life says that his life growing up was traumatic. What your DSS is displaying are the symptoms of the pain and that can never be dealt with by calling out lies or by taking personally his inner battle in this life.

 

My sister is a new person today and she is STILL suffering by trying to restore broken relationships that her lies caused. But the truth in the whole situation was that she was a completely broken human being. She felt worthless and she changed every situation to fit her perception of who she was as a result of her abusive childhood and early adulthood. She self-sabotaged everything and even when something was going well, she'd STILL paint a picture and live in a false reality.

 

Only one thing can heal and that's love. Compassion, understanding, empathy, and truth need to be the focus. You can't heal a broken heart any other way, and it takes a lot of time and patience. It takes overlooking the symptoms (the lieing, the coldness, the self-sabotage...) and it requires looking a whole lot deeper. It requires the laying down of your very own life to help someone restore what's been lost and find their theirs.

[m0mmaBuck]

You all make valid points, and I appreciate them all. I wish I knew how to multiquote but I can't seem to figure it out.

 

I did put a call into the psychiatrist to give him a heads up for when DSS gets home. We need to sit down again as a group and go over boundaries and expections. I am concerned for DSS and how he is choosing to deal with things in his life, but I am also concerned about the example he sets for the younger children in the house. They have already picked up some to the "screw you" attitude he displays toward DH and myself as well as the rules of the house and this needs to be nipped. I also don't want them thinking it's OK tell tell different versions of "their truth" to people as they see fit. So we have an appointment to talk with him on Tuesday.

 

Beyond the family as a whole unit, I am concerned about DS and how he is dealing (or rather choosing not to deal) with events and realities in his life. I want him to understand that he is OK as he is, warts and all, but he needs to accept that and move forward accordingly rather than try to paint a pictures of himself that is based on lies. He's a likable person. He just sabotages himself time after time.

 

Hornblower, I know what you mean about the questions. MIL was just genuinely interested in what his plans for the future are. She fields a lot of phone calls from relatives who are interested in what he is doing after high school and she wanted to tell them the right thing. I'm sure it was annoying for him though. She annoys me sometimes, lol.

 

Openminded, he (in front of his peers) takes great pleasure in the fact that he has a 3% in one of his classes that "no one" fails. His initial plan after his mom died was to fail on purpose so he could go to the technical high school for another year and gain some job skills but then he decided he didn't want to do any of those jobs (computers, culinary, construction, auto mechanics, etc.) so he would try to graduate and go to the community college for a few years in order to get a set of grades or associates degree that may get accepted into a college for forestry. That's the plan that I know of as of now.

 

Starr, he may be feeling badly. I honestly think he doesn't have a clear idea of what he might like to do with his life so it is easier to do nothing rather than try and fail. That's just my thought though.

 

Jana, I really appreciate you sharing about your childhood. Your sister sounds similar to my son and I hope that we can help him or find help for him that will allow him to have the life he deserves. He has a lot of potential, he really does. He just can't seem to accept himself and find a path.

[Guest janainaz]

Jana, I really appreciate you sharing about your childhood. Your sister sounds similar to my son and I hope that we can help him or find help for him that will allow him to have the life he deserves. He has a lot of potential, he really does. He just can't seem to accept himself and find a path.

 

The reason why I did share that is because everyone tried to fix my sister from the outside in. You can tell your dss until you're blue in the face that he's worthy and deserving, but to get him to accept that, he needs to be shown and he needs time. The years of abuse that my sister went through have taken all the longer to heal. Again, I don't know the big picture of your dss, and I don't need to. What you shared about your dss sounds so much like my sister. I can understand the fact that you are concerned about your children picking up on the attitudes, but that is easily corrected by letting those kids into the heart of your dss. But their attitude will reflect YOUR attitude about your son. If you show disgust and if you disregard your dss's feelings, so will your other kids. I have a stepmother and I've never been considered her daughter, even though I've had her around in my life for 25 years. If your dss is made to feel like a real son to you, if he feels that you are truly invested in him, that you really do care, that you love his father enough to care deeply about his child - that can do a lot of healing.

 

My sister, at one point, would have been told by a psychologist or psychiatrist that she was crazy. All kinds of things would have been suggested in an effort to "fix" her. But her "fixing" came by a long and hard road and the foundation was unconditional love and belief in who she was deep in her heart. I always knew she was a wonderful person and the more I reflected that truth at her, the more she started to believe it.

[justamouse]

. I want him to understand that he is OK as he is, warts and all, but he needs to accept that and move forward accordingly rather than try to paint a pictures of himself that is based on lies. He's a likable person. He just sabotages himself time after time.

 

He has a lot of potential, he really does. He just can't seem to accept himself and find a path.

 

His mom killed herself? By the way he's acting, I'm betting he's blaming himself for it, and nothing you ever say will make him believe he's good enough. Because in his mind, good enough, loveable enough, would mean she would still be there. I've been friends with a few people who live with that wound, and it's nothing a few talks fixes.

 

Jana, what you said is amazing. Yes.

[Impish]

His mom killed herself? By the way he's acting, I'm betting he's blaming himself for it, and nothing you ever say will make him believe he's good enough. Because in his mind, good enough, loveable enough, would mean she would still be there. I've been friends with a few people who live with that wound, and it's nothing a few talks fixes.

 

Jana, what you said is amazing. Yes.

:iagree::iagree:

[elizabeth]

Voice of dissent here. As a survivor of suicide by a parent and then brother the worst thing you can do is indulge the disrespect. That leads to nearly guaranteed self medicating of the worst kind. My mother permitted my living sibling to mistreat her, lie, disrespect her etc after being addicted to several substances many of them illegal she finally is getting her act together. She was high for the last ten years or so. Literally those years are gone to her . Compassion is one thing, indulging in and wallowing in self pity to the extent that your children are learning bad habits of mind is no help to your DSS and is to me an indicator that you have trouble establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries. It is not easy to do and I have been called the B word many times for doing it but I am sane and healthy in spite of the codependent adults that continue to indulge in their adult children's lying, manipulations etc . You are not responsible for what happened, for his feelings, his failures, his disrespect. Until he takes ownership of his inexcusable behaviour your family will continue to spin in circles around him. Flame away but I do know from education and experience what I am talking about .

[Joanne]

They have 'decided' that he lives in a different reality than the rest of us so he takes in what he hears/sees and twists it into what fits his world.

 

Is there a diagnosis? Mental illness runs in his family, yes?

 

Borderline?

Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

Bi-polar?

Severe PTSD?

Attachment disorder?

 

OK, so DSS came home from a Boy Scout camping trip yesterday. He came in the door and I looked him in the eyes said, "Hello H." The little ones followed suit. He walked right past me without acknowledging me, went in his room and laid down. I was just going to let it go because it was a battle I didn't what to fight but DH confronted him, asking why he didn't at least say "Hello." DSS stated he didn't hear me (DH was in the next room, has 80% hearing loss, and heard me and the kids) and that he was waiting for someone else to say "hi" first anyway. I said, well, generally when you come into the house you say "Hello" to let people know you are home. He then got in an argument with DH about how he had a great time at camp just wanted to go to bed and would talk to us later and didn't think he needed to be part of the family activities since he is 18. OK. Deep breath.

 

In the evening we went to the inlaws for dinner. After dinner we were in the living room and MIL started asking DSS about school and his plans for the summer/future. He basically ignored her, giving her vague answers, rolling his eyes, and staring at the TV. She shut off the TV so he would speak to her.

 

I bolded the parts that made me, as an introvert, breath quickly. I.need.some.space. To go to Boy Scout Camp, come home to a family of adults/littles and then to Grandma's? Enough. I have some maturity and skill sets to deal proactively with my introversion, but I'd be challenged.

 

I'm not inclined to indulge children, but I think this part is a temperment issue.

[Starr]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Some people have such hard things to live with.

[Blessedfamily]

Mommabuck (and family, esp DSS), Jana,Elizabeth:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

No, you don't punish him--anymore than you would punish your dh or he would punish you for some act of misbehavior (and yes I think adults misbehave, too! I am sometimes rude to my dh, for instance, and he does talk with me about it directly--or I'll go to him and apologize, but doesn't punish me--or vice versa)

 

I think you can head off some of his influence on your other kids by helping them to understand him and the different life he has had.

 

I think there is a fine line you will have to walk, discerning carefully, and knowing that you'll make some mistakes. He's 18 and an adult, so you need to move into more of a peer relationship as he is now an adult offspring, but he's a troubled adult so that's why it gets trickier. (It's tricky for many people living with their adult children even when they aren't troubled.) That's why punishment shouldn't be on the radar. What is on instead is more the type of thing that roommates negotiate or other adults living together negotiate: how do we live together? What are mutual expectations? What are you willing to live with and what aren't you willing to live with? What things would you do if he was a friend or a sibling who had fallen on hard times and moved in with you? I think thinking through it from that perspective helps give you a grid on which to evaluate how to address a certain behavior. In what cases would you address the lying and when wouldn't you? (This is entirely different from addressing lying in a minor living in your home.) It sounds to me like it would be helpful to sit down with him and work out the "rules of the house" but as adults working together. It may be that the best thing would be for him to move out. Just don't let that happen in anger--negotiate it. Hope this makes sense.

 

As Jana said, looking at it as a process of healing that will take a long time and much patience and love will be helpful. As Elizabeth said, pain cannot be an excuse either.

[Guest janainaz]

Voice of dissent here. As a survivor of suicide by a parent and then brother the worst thing you can do is indulge the disrespect. That leads to nearly guaranteed self medicating of the worst kind. My mother permitted my living sibling to mistreat her, lie, disrespect her etc after being addicted to several substances many of them illegal she finally is getting her act together. She was high for the last ten years or so. Literally those years are gone to her . Compassion is one thing, indulging in and wallowing in self pity to the extent that your children are learning bad habits of mind is no help to your DSS and is to me an indicator that you have trouble establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries. It is not easy to do and I have been called the B word many times for doing it but I am sane and healthy in spite of the codependent adults that continue to indulge in their adult children's lying, manipulations etc . You are not responsible for what happened, for his feelings, his failures, his disrespect. Until he takes ownership of his inexcusable behaviour your family will continue to spin in circles around him. Flame away but I do know from education and experience what I am talking about .

 

 

Showing someone love and compassion is not the same as indulging behavior.

 

I did not indulge my sister's behavior. In fact, when she was blatantly lieing to me about horrific things, I exposed her lies, and I made boundaries with her. I had many periods where I had to step back from her because her lies were that sick. But I also went to every length to pour out my heart and soul to her, and repeatedly chose to keep my focus on the source of her pain, and not become personally offended, or internalize her behavior as an attack on me. Her behavior was an attack on herself, and that is something deeply saddening.

 

What justamouse pointed out was heart-wrenching. I can't imagine leaving my kids with that feeling inside. The OP is not this boys mother, she's a step-mother, and while there CAN be very close relationships between step-families, it is often more of an annoyance and burden to the step-parent when they have to step into a deeper role than they are desiring.

 

I'm not suggesting this is the situation, but only someone that truly and deeply loves that kid can know what he needs to heal.

[Food4Thought]

I bolded the parts that made me, as an introvert, breath quickly. I.need.some.space. To go to Boy Scout Camp, come home to a family of adults/littles and then to Grandma's? Enough. I have some maturity and skill sets to deal proactively with my introversion, but I'd be challenged.

 

I'm not inclined to indulge children, but I think this part is a temperment issue.

 

:iagree: I'm also an introvert. If I just got home from camp, I'd need a long quiet break before I was ready to be human again. I get a little growly after a night with friends, and usually communicate with my family in grunts until my brain settles down. And I'm a 31-yr old woman. :lol:

 

I'm not saying to let things pass, but if you understand he may be tired or worn out, I'd recommend not to press any issues too heavily. Couldn't you talk about the disrespect issue the following day, after he had some time to relax after getting home?

[Liz CA]

When I read your post, I just saw so much pain. I am usually all for discipline etc. and consequences but his entire behavior just screams "pain" at me. I am not a psychiatrist, mind you.

Does he usually have a good time when he is away from family? You mentioned he liked it at camp. Perhaps there is an opportunity to get him to a teen / young adult camp where counselors are aware of his circumstances but he is not around family. He may just be better at working through his pain and grief with people who are not connected to his past.

[m0mmaBuck]

Still can't figure the multiquote thing. Bah.

 

Yes, his mom killed herself. I do think he blames himself on many levels. He chose to move here when he was 14 (age of choice in GA) for numerous reasons. He had not seen her in almost a year (refused to go because of the mother's boyfriend). Before Christmas, he and I talked at length about his relationship with his mother and the fact that since he planned to join the Army right after high school (those plans have since changed) he might want to go spend some time with her, either at Christmas or in the summer, before he went to basic training. He spent what he described as a wonderful Christmas with his mom and 2 wks after he got back here she shot herself... with a pistol she had asked him to load for "self defense." It's almost like she wanted to stick it to him, right to the very end. It's awful. Imagine the guilt he feels about the entire situation. I cannot. While logically he knows that he is not to blame on any level for the choices she made, he still blames himself.

 

So yes, everything goes deeper than just lying or just being an introvert or just testing his boundaries or just any one thing. It was like this before her death and has intensified ever since. There have been safety issues in the past with the younger children, the animals, tools, etc. There is a sense of self-hate that manifests in self-sabotage, alienating behaviors, trust issues, etc., that existed prior to his mom's death.

 

I understand that he needs compassion and love and a feeling of acceptance. I try to offer that to the best of my ability. I have known him since he was 3. He grew up around me. I love the boy. I truly do. I want him to be happy and healthy and well-adjusted. I want him to love himself like we love him.

 

The awkwardness of my position comes from wanting the same for the entire family and watching one member repeatedly do things that upset the rest of the family. I want to protect everyone, including protecting the 18yo from himself. Does that make sense?

[Blessedfamily]

Still can't figure the multiquote thing. Bah.

 

Yes, his mom killed herself. I do think he blames himself on many levels. He chose to move here when he was 14 (age of choice in GA) for numerous reasons. He had not seen her in almost a year (refused to go because of the mother's boyfriend). Before Christmas, he and I talked at length about his relationship with his mother and the fact that since he planned to join the Army right after high school (those plans have since changed) he might want to go spend some time with her, either at Christmas or in the summer, before he went to basic training. He spent what he described as a wonderful Christmas with his mom and 2 wks after he got back here she shot herself... with a pistol she had asked him to load for "self defense." It's almost like she wanted to stick it to him, right to the very end. It's awful. Imagine the guilt he feels about the entire situation. I cannot. While logically he knows that he is not to blame on any level for the choices she made, he still blames himself.

 

...

 

What a tragic experience. I will agree with those that say you have to take a different approach once they're adults. Albeit a very young, hurting adult. :grouphug:

[m0mmaBuck]

I'm wondering outloud now. He has said before that his life in GA was very different because it was just him and his mom (and sometimes a boyfriend) in a house twice the size of ours and that they each basically had their own bedrooms, living rooms and bathrooms. The only space they shared (and the only time they shared regularly) was dinner time. I wonder if some of his problems stem from the fact that we do EVERYTHING together and he was not really brought up that way. We run a business from our home. DH and I work together. We homeschool the kids. We spend most of our freetime together. We eat 2 if not 3 meals together daily. Is it too much "together" for him in general? I mean, we give him the choice as to whether or not he goes with us on outing (and he's always welcome to bring a friend) but our family unit spends a lot of time together and my inlaws live 8 houses away in the same neighborhood and we see them at least 2-3 days/wk for meals and such. I mean, it doesn't justify the lying and disrespectful behavior but maybe rather than trying so hard to include him in the family stuff and make him feel like he is part of the family, we need to just let hiim go. We haven't really wanted to leave him alone since his mom died (because we are afraid of what he might do to himself), but maybe that's what he needs, at least in part. Hmmm...

[Guest janainaz]

Still can't figure the multiquote thing. Bah.

 

Yes, his mom killed herself. I do think he blames himself on many levels. He chose to move here when he was 14 (age of choice in GA) for numerous reasons. He had not seen her in almost a year (refused to go because of the mother's boyfriend). Before Christmas, he and I talked at length about his relationship with his mother and the fact that since he planned to join the Army right after high school (those plans have since changed) he might want to go spend some time with her, either at Christmas or in the summer, before he went to basic training. He spent what he described as a wonderful Christmas with his mom and 2 wks after he got back here she shot herself... with a pistol she had asked him to load for "self defense." It's almost like she wanted to stick it to him, right to the very end. It's awful. Imagine the guilt he feels about the entire situation. I cannot. While logically he knows that he is not to blame on any level for the choices she made, he still blames himself.

 

So yes, everything goes deeper than just lying or just being an introvert or just testing his boundaries or just any one thing. It was like this before her death and has intensified ever since. There have been safety issues in the past with the younger children, the animals, tools, etc. There is a sense of self-hate that manifests in self-sabotage, alienating behaviors, trust issues, etc., that existed prior to his mom's death.

 

I understand that he needs compassion and love and a feeling of acceptance. I try to offer that to the best of my ability. I have known him since he was 3. He grew up around me. I love the boy. I truly do. I want him to be happy and healthy and well-adjusted. I want him to love himself like we love him.

 

The awkwardness of my position comes from wanting the same for the entire family and watching one member repeatedly do things that upset the rest of the family. I want to protect everyone, including protecting the 18yo from himself. Does that make sense?

 

How painful for all of you. What a horrible circumstance to have to deal with. It's one thing to read about from the outside, it's another to be in the midst of that and carry all the emotions that go along with it. Life can be very painful and very complicated at times, and sometimes there is no easy answer and no quick fix.

 

I recently reconnected with my mother after 15+ years of her not being around. It went well for a while, but I had to let her go so that she could go do some more self-destructing in this life. Some people cause so much pain that you feel like you become numb - and that is the feeling I'm terrified of the most. Love does heal, but only to the extent that someone will allow it in. And some people can't let it in - for many varied reasons. That is THE most painful feeling to know - that you can love someone that much, but because they can't love themselves, they can't receive any else's love.

 

It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves. It's also important to protect others from being hurt. I had to let my mother go to protect myself from being hurt, because when I hurt, my family hurts. When someone can't see past their own pain, they have difficulties respecting or acknowledging the protective boundaries of others. I can't love my mother enough to heal her, and I've taken on that guilt far too long in my life. So, having love and compassion for someone, doesn't mean accepting abuse or allowing their inner turmoil (and as sad as it is, pain) to disrupt everyone around them. In some cases the quickest way to healing is to let someone get to the bottom, so that they can decide they want to resurface. Only the person holding the pain can decide what they want to do with it. So if someone chooses to hold their pain, they are incapable of holding your love.

 

All you can do is love the best you can and keep a hope-filled heart.

 

Best wishes to you. :grouphug:

[Dina in Oklahoma]

"Feelings of worth can flourish only in an atmosphere where individual differences are appreciated, mistakes are tolerated, communication is open, and rules are flexible - - the kind of atmosphere that is found in a nurturing family." - Virginia Satir

 

Thank you ~ something we should all remember.

[Guest janainaz]

I'm wondering outloud now. He has said before that his life in GA was very different because it was just him and his mom (and sometimes a boyfriend) in a house twice the size of ours and that they each basically had their own bedrooms, living rooms and bathrooms. The only space they shared (and the only time they shared regularly) was dinner time. I wonder if some of his problems stem from the fact that we do EVERYTHING together and he was not really brought up that way. We run a business from our home. DH and I work together. We homeschool the kids. We spend most of our freetime together. We eat 2 if not 3 meals together daily. Is it too much "together" for him in general? I mean, we give him the choice as to whether or not he goes with us on outing (and he's always welcome to bring a friend) but our family unit spends a lot of time together and my inlaws live 8 houses away in the same neighborhood and we see them at least 2-3 days/wk for meals and such. I mean, it doesn't justify the lying and disrespectful behavior but maybe rather than trying so hard to include him in the family stuff and make him feel like he is part of the family, we need to just let hiim go. We haven't really wanted to leave him alone since his mom died (because we are afraid of what he might do to himself), but maybe that's what he needs, at least in part. Hmmm...

 

Sorry, I keep responding, but I can't help it.

 

I'm an introvert and I NEED to be alone. My dh and I and our then 4 year old son lived with my in-laws while MIL was sick with cancer. I liked to go to my room after dinner and chill out, watch my own shows, and just be alone. My in-laws had five adopted children living in their home and also my handicapped SIL. The house was huge, but it was too "full" for me. I loved my in-laws, I loved and adored each and every kid and did spend time with them, but my MIL was deeply offended that I spent time alone in my room. She continually harrassed me and wanted to sit me down and find out why I was so depressed. I wasn't depressed! I was being me - and 'me' likes to be with 'me'. No matter how I told her and expressed my feelings, she refused to accept that I really did not hate her, I just needed to be alone. She couldn't get it.

 

So it sounds like a mixture of issues for you. It is wonderful that you desire to include him (or that you worry about him being alone.....clearly for many reasons) but maybe he just needs to be released and a heart-to-heart of letting him know that you desire him to be around, but that you also respect his need for space. A conversation laying it all out sounds like it would go a long way - at least for those surface issues.

[Lawana]

Still can't figure the multiquote thing. Bah.

 

 

 

At the lower right corner of each post are 3 buttons. The middle one with the " and + is the multi-quote button. If you hover the cursor over it it will show you as much. Click on the button. It will then have an orange background. Click on the multi-quote button in as many posts as you wish. Then click on the post reply button. Then edit and reply as desired.:001_smile:

[Laurie4b]

I'm wondering outloud now. He has said before that his life in GA was very different because it was just him and his mom (and sometimes a boyfriend) in a house twice the size of ours and that they each basically had their own bedrooms, living rooms and bathrooms. The only space they shared (and the only time they shared regularly) was dinner time. I wonder if some of his problems stem from the fact that we do EVERYTHING together and he was not really brought up that way. We run a business from our home. DH and I work together. We homeschool the kids. We spend most of our freetime together. We eat 2 if not 3 meals together daily. Is it too much "together" for him in general? I mean, we give him the choice as to whether or not he goes with us on outing (and he's always welcome to bring a friend) but our family unit spends a lot of time together and my inlaws live 8 houses away in the same neighborhood and we see them at least 2-3 days/wk for meals and such. I mean, it doesn't justify the lying and disrespectful behavior but maybe rather than trying so hard to include him in the family stuff and make him feel like he is part of the family, we need to just let hiim go. We haven't really wanted to leave him alone since his mom died (because we are afraid of what he might do to himself), but maybe that's what he needs, at least in part. Hmmm...

 

That's a whole lot more "together" time than the average homeschooling family gets, let alone the average family. I think you are on to something in terms of need for "personal space" being very different. (Not that that is the only thing, but if you can peel off even one layer of the onion, it can help)

 

Some of my experiences: I came to school in the South from the Northeast. In the Northeast, it's more urban and crowded and people create their own personal space in some ways, especially by not speaking to strangers. I felt accosted by all the friendliness of the South! Total strangers speaking to me in my dorm, the people at the local convenience store chatting up customers, etc. It took me a while to get used to it! (I now partake in it!)

 

When I was a teenager, my parents divorced. My mom moved to an apt. and I shared a queen-sized bed with her and had to get up for school a couple hours before she had to get up to go to work. I got up in silence and dressed in the dark. Fast-forward to college roommate, who was awakened every morning with loud greetings and tickling from her dad. in college, she would pop out of bed and put on some rocknroll music and cheerfully wish me good morning. I would be out of my mind! She thought it was just a negative part of my personality (though we were friends.) I finally had to prooftext from the Bible to win a quieter wake-up routine. ( Prov. 27;14 If a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, it will be taken as a curse. LOL!)

 

Anyway, I think giving him the opportunity to create a sense of personal space even though he may not have a lot of personal space may be a piece of the puzzle.

[Barb_]

I mean, it doesn't justify the lying and disrespectful behavior but maybe rather than trying so hard to include him in the family stuff and make him feel like he is part of the family, we need to just let hiim go. We haven't really wanted to leave him alone since his mom died (because we are afraid of what he might do to himself), but maybe that's what he needs, at least in part. Hmmm...

 

I think you are on the right track here. My oldest is 20 and a serious introvert. What you described in your post would be a special circle of hell for her. When she lived with us, she was the only one with her own room. Now that room has gone to my 13yo because my 16yo is a total extrovert and doesn't mind sharing her space at all. She's never even in her room. She even studies in the middle of the house because she gets lonesome otherwise. Introversion is very difficult for extroverts to wrap their minds around. It is a kindness to leave him alone. Really.

 

Barb

[Joanne]

The only space they shared (and the only time they shared regularly) was dinner time. I wonder if some of his problems stem from the fact that we do EVERYTHING together and he was not really brought up that way. We run a business from our home. DH and I work together. We homeschool the kids. We spend most of our freetime together. We eat 2 if not 3 meals together daily. Is it too much "together" for him in general?

 

I doubt if it's a matter of family style determining temperment, but a matter of match. I'm an introvert and I can guarantee that I'd be one no matter what family style I grew up in.

 

Yes, if he's on the introvert side, it's too much together time. I feel suffocated just thinking about it. It's not a matter of right or wrong, but that different people have different needs for solitude, interaction, etc. You might keep an eye to see if any of your other children need more "space" than your family style allows.

[justamouse]

I bolded the parts that made me, as an introvert, breath quickly. I.need.some.space. To go to Boy Scout Camp, come home to a family of adults/littles and then to Grandma's? Enough. I have some maturity and skill sets to deal proactively with my introversion, but I'd be challenged.

 

I'm not inclined to indulge children, but I think this part is a temperment issue.

 

This is me, too. When I come home from ANYTHING-food shopping, *anything* I need don't go near me time. If it involves people, I need decompression time. If everyone wanted to 'visit' with me when I walked in from a convention? I would tolerate it with my teeth on edge, waiting to bolt.

[Food4Thought]

First, I think you have a wonderful heart, and it sounds like you are doing everything in your power to take good care of this young man. I like that you are trying and are open to other ideas. :)

 

I mean, it doesn't justify the lying and disrespectful behavior but maybe rather than trying so hard to include him in the family stuff and make him feel like he is part of the family, we need to just let hiim go. We haven't really wanted to leave him alone since his mom died (because we are afraid of what he might do to himself), but maybe that's what he needs, at least in part. Hmmm...

 

I think you're right on here. For me, feeling like I'm part of the family is being allowed that time to myself without feeling like I'm "in trouble." It's taken my husband some getting used to, but he knows if I go hide for a while, I'm not upset - I just need to regroup. I'd say, as long as he still comes out for meals and the important family times, maybe let him have as much extra space as you can allow (within the rules of the house, of course).

 

I can understand wanting to keep a close eye on him too, though. That's a really hard situation!

[m0mmaBuck]

I doubt if it's a matter of family style determining temperment, but a matter of match. I'm an introvert and I can guarantee that I'd be one no matter what family style I grew up in.

 

Yes, if he's on the introvert side, it's too much together time. I feel suffocated just thinking about it. It's not a matter of right or wrong, but that different people have different needs for solitude, interaction, etc. You might keep an eye to see if any of your other children need more "space" than your family style allows.

 

I see my younger two wander off (much as DH and I do) for alone time now and then. Our lifestyle is more a matter of circumstance (small house, open floor plan, business run out of the home, homeschooling) than a matter of choice but it seems maybe the eldest child has more difficulty expressing his needs (and has more intense needs) than the rest of us.

 

I think you are on the right track here. My oldest is 20 and a serious introvert. What you described in your post would be a special circle of hell for her. When she lived with us, she was the only one with her own room. Now that room has gone to my 13yo because my 16yo is a total extrovert and doesn't mind sharing her space at all. She's never even in her room. She even studies in the middle of the house because she gets lonesome otherwise. Introversion is very difficult for extroverts to wrap their minds around. It is a kindness to leave him alone. Really.

 

Barb

 

When he moved in, DH and I gave up our office space in the home (moved it into our bedroom--I do not recommend that) so that he could have his own space within the house. We installed doors so that he could have privacy. We don't allow the other children in his room without his permission. We knew he would have to adjust to the way our house is vs. how his mother's was. We do try to let him have space but perhaps it's not so much the physical as the emotional space that he needs.

 

How painful for all of you. What a horrible circumstance to have to deal with. It's one thing to read about from the outside, it's another to be in the midst of that and carry all the emotions that go along with it. Life can be very painful and very complicated at times, and sometimes there is no easy answer and no quick fix.

 

I recently reconnected with my mother after 15+ years of her not being around. It went well for a while, but I had to let her go so that she could go do some more self-destructing in this life. Some people cause so much pain that you feel like you become numb - and that is the feeling I'm terrified of the most. Love does heal, but only to the extent that someone will allow it in. And some people can't let it in - for many varied reasons. That is THE most painful feeling to know - that you can love someone that much, but because they can't love themselves, they can't receive any else's love.

 

It hurts to watch someone you love hurt themselves. It's also important to protect others from being hurt. I had to let my mother go to protect myself from being hurt, because when I hurt, my family hurts. When someone can't see past their own pain, they have difficulties respecting or acknowledging the protective boundaries of others. I can't love my mother enough to heal her, and I've taken on that guilt far too long in my life. So, having love and compassion for someone, doesn't mean accepting abuse or allowing their inner turmoil (and as sad as it is, pain) to disrupt everyone around them. In some cases the quickest way to healing is to let someone get to the bottom, so that they can decide they want to resurface. Only the person holding the pain can decide what they want to do with it. So if someone chooses to hold their pain, they are incapable of holding your love.

 

All you can do is love the best you can and keep a hope-filled heart.

 

Best wishes to you. :grouphug:

 

The situation is heartwrenching on a daily basis. Not only knowing what he went through before his mom died, but then having to deal with that on top of everything. It's so unfair for him. It's just so hard to watch your child flounder, suffer, punish himself, dig himself holes he can't get out of. So hard. And at the same time I am trying to keep DH and his relationship from suffering (DH gets really frustrated with the fact that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes or want to try to do better) and trying to maintain a healthy relationship between all of the kids and trying to keep the stress from negatively impact our marriage and ... It's just a lot some days. Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestions.

 

\

 

So it sounds like a mixture of issues for you. It is wonderful that you desire to include him (or that you worry about him being alone.....clearly for many reasons) but maybe he just needs to be released and a heart-to-heart of letting him know that you desire him to be around, but that you also respect his need for space. A conversation laying it all out sounds like it would go a long way - at least for those surface issues.

 

I really want him to feel like he is an important part of the family. He is. He is as important as the other children whether he realizes it or not. We've tried to have several heart-to-hearts but he seems to have difficulty knowing where he fits. It's obviously time for another one though.

 

That's a whole lot more "together" time than the average homeschooling family gets, let alone the average family. I think you are on to something in terms of need for "personal space" being very different. (Not that that is the only thing, but if you can peel off even one layer of the onion, it can help)

 

Our together time is excessive but brought about by our business, the size of our home, homeschooling, and our choice of activities (primarily scouting). I think since he always had a lot of physical personal space at his mom's house, he doesn't know how to create his own space within the current constraints. Something to work on for sure.

 

Thank you all again for your suggestions and kindness. I'm almost in tears from how wonderful you all are.

[Parrothead]

Butting in with my 2 cents.

 

If it were me.... I'd talk to him when he is having a fairly good day. I'd let him know he is loved and that he is part of the family and once again reassure him that no of his mother's death was his fault. Then ask him what he want. Does he need more space? (Had a thought - can you give him his own space like maybe a room over the garage or have him build an addition? Something he can do with his hands.) Does he need to man-to-man time with his dad? Find out what you can do for him. And while you are talking help him see that his attitude is inappropriate if front of the youngers. Let him know that he can feel how he feels but he at a minimum must show basic manners while in the house. He probably needs some time to finish grieving, some space and some understanding. He also needs to act like an adult which means basic manners and a half way decent attitude where others can see him.

 

Is the military totally out? He might find a place for himself in the Corps.They really stress the brotherhood and being a team player.

 

I don't have anything else. My first reaction was "he is 18, it is time to make his own way." But now that I've read all the posts I have a better understanding. Even with that I have only a glimpse so take my advise in the spirit it was given.

[m0mmaBuck]

Chucki, I do believe it's time for another sit down talk, on a good day. He is an important part of the family but he also needs to see that his attitude and behavior are a negative influence on the youngers. I don't think he's really allowed himself to grieve yet but when we or his counselor try to get him to talk his response is that he is done thinking about it. My dad died over a year ago under very different circumstances and I'm not done thinking about it. But I think there are maturity issues at play on the subject and he doesn't fully understand that grieving is a cyclical process. Anyway, I do agree that a sit down is necessary, but on a good day for him.

 

As far as additional space, we cannot build on to the house (neighborhood covenants). He would enjoy it, but it's not feasible. We've encouraged him for 2 years to turn our garage into a game room for him and his friends but he has not yet taken the initiative on that. It remains an option though.

 

Re: his time with his dad, DH started a Venture Crew to spend more time with him and he also got DS involved in Boy Scouts (which he loves, and will hopefully receive his Eagle after his board in June). On weekends, DH will try to do something one-on-one with him but DS either refuses or invites a friend or does something to get himself in trouble so he doesn't have to go. I don't think he is comfortable being alone with his dad because DH tries to get him to talk about things that make him uncomfortable (i.e. his mom, school, future plans).

 

Re: the military, DS has been overweight since he was a young child (5-6 yo) and some significant weight to lose to enlist. Rather than use it as an incentive, he uses it in a "sour grapes" type mentality. I took him to a nutritionist and signed him up for a gym with a personal trainer. He did well for about two weeks and then gave up saying he didn't want to join the Army anyway. I continue to cook healthy foods, keep the junk food out of the house, and encourage activity but he tends to use food for comfort and that's something he's needed a lot of over the last few months.

 

I too have had the fleeting "he's 18 and he needs to go" thoughts but they are just glimmers because he is emotionally a child who is hurting and where he would go, left to his own devices, would most likely not be good.

[Parrothead]

Chucki, I do believe it's time for another sit down talk, on a good day. He is an important part of the family but he also needs to see that his attitude and behavior are a negative influence on the youngers. I don't think he's really allowed himself to grieve yet but when we or his counselor try to get him to talk his response is that he is done thinking about it. My dad died over a year ago under very different circumstances and I'm not done thinking about it. But I think there are maturity issues at play on the subject and he doesn't fully understand that grieving is a cyclical process. Anyway, I do agree that a sit down is necessary, but on a good day for him.

Again, my opinion - I think the most you can do about this is to make some books and/or pamphlets on the grieving process available for him. Maybe he will find them and do some reading. Leave them in the bathroom magazine rack?

 

As far as additional space, we cannot build on to the house (neighborhood covenants). He would enjoy it, but it's not feasible. We've encouraged him for 2 years to turn our garage into a game room for him and his friends but he has not yet taken the initiative on that. It remains an option though.

Again, there is only so much you can do. When you talk to him remind him that you know (or are figuring out) how he needs his space since he is so introverted and that the offer for the garage is still open.

 

Re: his time with his dad, DH started a Venture Crew to spend more time with him and he also got DS involved in Boy Scouts (which he loves, and will hopefully receive his Eagle after his board in June). On weekends, DH will try to do something one-on-one with him but DS either refuses or invites a friend or does something to get himself in trouble so he doesn't have to go. I don't think he is comfortable being alone with his dad because DH tries to get him to talk about things that make him uncomfortable (i.e. his mom, school, future plans).

 

Opinion - Tell his dad to just be there. Have him take ds fishing and tell your dh not to speak unless spoken to. Often times silence and a person near by just in case is the best comfort.

 

Re: the military, DS has been overweight since he was a young child (5-6 yo) and some significant weight to lose to enlist. Rather than use it as an incentive, he uses it in a "sour grapes" type mentality. I took him to a nutritionist and signed him up for a gym with a personal trainer. He did well for about two weeks and then gave up saying he didn't want to join the Army anyway. I continue to cook healthy foods, keep the junk food out of the house, and encourage activity but he tends to use food for comfort and that's something he's needed a lot of over the last few months.

Gotcha.

 

I too have had the fleeting "he's 18 and he needs to go" thoughts but they are just glimmers because he is emotionally a child who is hurting and where he would go, left to his own devices, would most likely not be good.

He is still in school, right? Is he making plans for work even though it isn't his ideal? He needs something, but not something he can sabotage and use as an excuse for a pity party. That is difficult. Was it just this past winter that his mother died? If it was, I'd grin and bear it for the full year with the idea in mind that he will shape up or ship out by next summer.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Parrothead

[m0mmaBuck]

He is still in school, right? Is he making plans for work even though it isn't his ideal? He needs something, but not something he can sabotage and use as an excuse for a pity party. That is difficult. Was it just this past winter that his mother died? If it was, I'd grin and bear it for the full year with the idea in mind that he will shape up or ship up within a few months after the anniversary of her death.

 

His mom died this January.

 

He's still in high school. He may or may not graduate in 3 wks. If he doesn't graduate on time, he will most likely take summer school classes to catch up and get his diploma at the end of summer. However, there is another option on the table whereby he could go to the technical high school for another year as a "super senior" and learn some trade skills. We are OK with either option but want him to choose rather than having life choose for him.

 

We have told him he is welcome to live here (by our rules) and go to the community college or work while he figures things out. He cannot just hang out. He has to have a plan, a schedule, a purpose so to speak.

[Parrothead]

 

We have told him he is welcome to live here (by our rules) and go to the community college or work while he figures things out. He cannot just hang out. He has to have a plan, a schedule, a purpose so to speak.

That's good. He needs some type of plan or goal.

 

Were the problems this prevalent before his mom died?

[m0mmaBuck]

 

Were the problems this prevalent before his mom died?

 

Yes. He had many of the same issues prior to her death. We had him in counseling and were doing some family counseling even before she died to deal with his childhood as well as how he was integrating into the family. There are a few subtle changes since her death, like his attitude toward me and women in general. When left unchecked he will treat me like something that should be scraped off his shoes. I think he is directing his anger at his mom toward me, and I'm a big girl so I can handle it and understand where it's coming from but I will not allow it to go unchecked.

[Renee in NC]

His mom died this January.

 

He's still in high school. He may or may not graduate in 3 wks. If he doesn't graduate on time, he will most likely take summer school classes to catch up and get his diploma at the end of summer. However, there is another option on the table whereby he could go to the technical high school for another year as a "super senior" and learn some trade skills. We are OK with either option but want him to choose rather than having life choose for him.

 

We have told him he is welcome to live here (by our rules) and go to the community college or work while he figures things out. He cannot just hang out. He has to have a plan, a schedule, a purpose so to speak.

 

His mom killed herself just a few months ago with a gun that he inadvertantly loaded for her. This was two weeks after a great visit where he reconnected with her after a year of refusing to see her.

 

My dh's mother was killed in an accident and it was a good, solid YEAR before he was even remotely normal again. He still has moments where he just feels an enormous pain. And he never felt like it was his fault.

 

I think expecting him to have a purpose, a plan, a schedule is not realistic at this time. What will happen if you just give him some time? I can't imagine trying to focus on my future (and having people ask me about it) when my mother has just committed suicide!

 

Maybe he could do volunteer work, get a job, or some other combination of things. It will not ruin his future if he doesn't graduate high school this summer. It will not mean he has no future if he doesn't get a trade this next year. He does need to do something (if for no other reason than to offer some distraction), but I would really cut him some slack

 

:grouphug:

 

I can't imagine this is easy for anyone, but please, try to put yourself in his shoes. What if your mother killed herself (and you saw it as your fault) and everyone around you continued on as if nothing has changed?

[Caroline]

Have you found him? Has he come home, yet?

[elegantlion]

Have you found him? Has he come home, yet?

 

:grouphug: here.

 

I can't imagine his grief. My dh's father died when was 9. He shut off the grief for years, blaming himself, telling himself he was going to die young too. His dad's death was a car accident, nothing remotely his fault. He was well into adulthood before he even thought about getting through his grief.

 

Please let us all know when he comes home.

[m0mmaBuck]

Have you found him? Has he come home, yet?

 

Yes. I'm sorry. I forgot to say. He called about an hour ago. He is at his grandparent's house helping them clean up their yard. He has not come home but at least we know where he is.

 

 

I think expecting him to have a purpose, a plan, a schedule is not realistic at this time. What will happen if you just give him some time? I can't imagine trying to focus on my future (and having people ask me about it) when my mother has just committed suicide!

 

We have told him it's OK to stay in high school for another year. We have told him he can graduate and work part-time (for distraction, spending cash, a reason to get up in the a.m.). We've told him he can stay here and go to community college. We've encouraged him to get a job working at a camp somewhere cool so he can spend his summer camping and hanging out and being outside. We have told him we are OK with whatever he chooses but he has to let us know what his plan (short term, no long term goal expected) is because it's stressful to see his grades and then hear him tell people these absurd plans for his future (different plans depending on who is talking to--anything from joining the army to working for our company to going into forestry to working for our friend's construction company) and wonder what in the world he is up to now. We don't want him to choose a forever, we just want him to pursue/accomplish something as a short term goal, even if that goal is to fail his classes so he can attend another year of school. And we want him to be pleasant enough in front of and to the other members of the family, specifically the youngers. I really don't think we are asking much. I don't know.

 

 

I can't imagine this is easy for anyone, but please, try to put yourself in his shoes. What if your mother killed herself (and you saw it as your fault) and everyone around you continued on as if nothing has changed? That's just the thing. We try to get him to talk, to open up, to acknowledge what happened and how he's feeling and how it impacts him and those around him but he only ever says "It's no big deal" or "I'm done grieving" or something similar. I wish he would admit that things have changed.

[jld]

Jana and Renee, you are really offering Michelle wise counsel. And the rest of us are learning a lot from what you are saying, too. Thank you so much!

[elegantlion]

Yes. I'm sorry. I forgot to say. He called about an hour ago. He is at his grandparent's house helping them clean up their yard. He has not come home but at least we know where he is.

 

:grouphug: I got back online to see. Glad to hear he is with someone.

[Peela]

That sounds healthy- at his grandparents helping them clear their yard? There is something in him that knows what to do, that is looking for healing. Physical work, and grandparents.

 

This thread has really touched my heart.

I am a step mum to a 21yo who has been difficult (and also since she was 3), but because her own mum is in the picture, I haven't really had to step into that mother role anywhere near as much as you have. As much as I want to, I cannot feel the same feelings for my very challenging stepdd as I do for my own children. I do understand your desire to protect your own children. The way we have always done that is be very open about what is going on with stepdd.

 

I think he may need much more time to grieve, and may need, yes, space, and also, a lack of pressure to decide what to do next. Has he cried lots? I know he is 18, but he just may not know what to do next because his system is busy processing his deep emotions. But really, I think you seem to be doing everything you can, with a huge amount of compassion, and I know it can't be easy. You can't travel his journey for him and you don't really need to suffer for him- just love him. I understand Elizabeth's point about not accepting bad behaviour- you have nothing to feel guilty about and you do need to make sure he is not abusive. But I would definitely give him space when he comes home and not demand he be part of the family dynamics. My son is similar when he gets home from camps and we give him space and lots of time to sleep and reenter the family. Even though it seems rude and disruptive, it's small stuff.

 

You are doing wonderfully in a very challenging situaiton. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[elegantlion]

That's just the thing. We try to get him to talk, to open up, to acknowledge what happened and how he's feeling and how it impacts him and those around him but he only ever says "It's no big deal" or "I'm done grieving" or something similar. I wish he would admit that things have changed.

 

He may not be ready or able to open up right now, but he's probably listening. Even if you tell him you love him as he his and don't require a response, I bet it will make a difference in the long run. Then when he is ready or able to talk about it, he knows you'll be there.

[ZooRho]

His mom killed herself? By the way he's acting, I'm betting he's blaming himself for it, and nothing you ever say will make him believe he's good enough. Because in his mind, good enough, loveable enough, would mean she would still be there. I've been friends with a few people who live with that wound, and it's nothing a few talks fixes.

 

Jana, what you said is amazing. Yes.

I haven't read any of your other stories, this is so hard. Being a teen today is hard in a normal life. adding divorce and a suicide in on it. And no wonder he is lost.

But I so agree with the quote above, yep in his mind WORTLESS, he wasn't even worth his mom staying around. You might really work on that his mom was sick and she needed help. Depression sucks, and when you are in that dark hole, you can't see anything, not even family. All you want is the pain and agony to stop.

 

I'm so sorry you are going through with this. Do continue to get help for him. Work hard to help him see his mom loved him (you will have to set aside any bad feelings you have toward her, find glimers of her love for him to remind him of, and then remind him of her love for him). I did that with an abused foster child-so I know it is hard.

 

blessings on your family

[m0mmaBuck]

This thread has been a blessing to me today. Thank you all!

 

Jana and Renee, you are really offering Michelle wise counsel. And the rest of us are learning a lot from what you are saying, too. Thank you so much!

Truly, yes. You have really said so much that has helped.

 

That sounds healthy- at his grandparents helping them clear their yard? There is something in him that knows what to do, that is looking for healing. Physical work, and grandparents.

 

He does seem to find some sort of peace in physical labor. That is one of the reasons we have tried to encourage him to claim the garage as his own, and to find a part-time summer job that is physical or outdoors. He has only cried twice, once when we got the phone call that she had died and once when they called to tell us how she died. Otherwise, we have not seen him cry. That doesn't mean he hasn't. I know he's hurting and I want to fix it but I know I can't.

 

 

He may not be ready or able to open up right now, but he's probably listening. Even if you tell him you love him as he his and don't require a response, I bet it will make a difference in the long run. Then when he is ready or able to talk about it, he knows you'll be there.

 

Thank you for that. Sometimes it just doesn't seem like enough. Sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head off the wall.I want to do more for him but I know it's really a matter of time and him figuring out how to deal.

 

Do continue to get help for him. Work hard to help him see his mom loved him (you will have to set aside any bad feelings you have toward her, find glimers of her love for him to remind him of, and then remind him of her love for him). I did that with an abused foster child-so I know it is hard.

 

blessings on your family

 

I know she loved him. It's so hard to understand where she was in her life that she made that choice. But we have talked with him about how low she must have been to have taken her own life. I think he understands that to a certain extent but the circumstances just feel like a kick to the stomach when you look at them from outside.

 

Thank you again everyone. You really are wonderful.

[MariannNOVA]

Michelle: Thoughts and prayers to your family and your DSS. I cannot even begin to imagine how this boy is hurting......and how difficult this is for all of you.:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Jana and Elizabeth --:grouphug::grouphug: - I was touched by how candidly you shared -- I am impressed by your strength and your ability to articulate situations that leave me stunned just reading about them. G-d bless both of you.

[Catherine]

Love is what changes people, pure and simple. I am "raising" my 20 yo nephew and this is my mantra, on hard days. Thank you so much for giving me the inspiration to keep going.