WHY not Saxon?

[scrappyhappymama]

OK, all you haters, have at it! :lol: :lol:

 

Seriously, though- I've read through enough math threads here to know that a lot of folks really don't like Saxon, especially the K-3. But we started with Saxon K and are now almost finished with Saxon 2 with Saxon 3 already in the pipeline. For several years now, I've not looked into switching because we've been perfectly happy with Saxon, and why fix what isn't broken, right? I've made plenty of other curriculum changes and was happy with my one sure thing!

 

I've been pleased with Saxon so far, because it teaches my son strategies for his math facts and not simply memorization. My son really "gets" the way he's been taught so far and figures out how to do math far beyond what we've studied formally (multiplication, division, adding negative numbers to a positive, etc). I like seeing how the earlier lessons are laying a foundation for the later lessons to build upon, and so far it has worked well, and my son loves making those connections as well.

 

What finally got me thinking of looking around was coming to the end of the addition facts and covering the lesson on the "oddballs" - facts that couldn't be solved using the previously learned rules. For example, 6+8 and 9+6, he's expected to just memorize these facts with no real explanation of why they add up to their sums, and he's resorting to counting them up. :confused: This is not like him, because any of the facts with "rules" (doubles, doubles plus one, sums of ten, etc) he has remembered after only the first introduction. So I helped him to devise rules of our own for these oddballs, like trading up to 10 and then adding the remainder and it seems to be helping. But I wonder why, after introducing the bulk of the addition and subtraction facts with helpful rules, these oddballs were just left to be memorized.

 

So far, we supplement with the Singapore CWPs and I am planning on adding in some of the MEP beginning this summer. And I've been reading threads again, revisiting our decision to stick with Saxon. So far, I've read a lot of anti-Saxon comments, but please help me understand what specifically is the difference between Saxon and Singapore or Miquon or Right Start? I've read folks say that these other programs teach kids differently, but I don't understand HOW they are different? Different rules? Different order of introduction? I've never learned any different approach to math, but I like the idea of a more mental math approach than computational, but I don't really understand what that means in actual practice.

 

Can you give some examples of math problems and explain how they would be solved differently with one of these other programs than with the Saxon method? And please, lay it on me. If you hate Saxon, especially from a math theory perspective, please help me understand why! :D You're welcome to tell me whatever you'd like, but I forewarn you that we actually like the meeting book and the scripted TM doesn't bug me a bit- I simply veer off if often and whenever I like! I'm really more interested in why Saxon would be damaging to my child in the long run... if you truly believe it to be the case.

 

Thanks!!

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

For us it was just that there was so much review and not enough work on the new. We LOVE spiral approach, that is why we do horizons math also, but too much of a good thing isnt so good KWIM.

 

If its working for you and your dc please do not change! There are many MANY things that work amazingly well for some, that does not work at all for others! I had started a thread about what curriculum people hated, and most of what works AWESOME for us was on MANY peoples hated list!!!!! That is why we are so fortunate to have so much curricula to choose from! :D

[Lovedtodeath]

Cathy Duffy reviews:

Unlike Making Math Meaningful, this program tries to cover a plethora of math related concepts in keeping with the new math standards accepted and promoted within the government-controlled educational system. That is not to say it is a bad program, but it does spend a lot of time covering topics children pick up quite simply on their own or with minimal amount of instruction. For example, children are taught in math lessons how to identify the weather, morning, afternoon, evening, night, days of the week, seasons, and months.

The program does teach traditional math skills but at a slower pace than programs such as A Beka, Horizons, or Bob Jones, most likely because it is trying to accomplish so many other objectives from the national math standards. For example, regrouping for addition is introduced in three lessons in Saxon Math 1 Level 1, but Level 2 does not return to the concept until the middle of the year.

 

The bottom line is that the program does teach math and does use some good methods to do so, but it might not be the most efficient way to accomplish your goals.

Don't you dare switch now! It is a top 100 pick!

The Saxon Math series is hugely popular among homeschoolers, largely because it works so well for students working independently. It is very different in the upper elementary grades through high school from the Saxon program for K-3.

[Sara in AZ]

We're in the exact same spot finishing up Saxon 2 and getting ready for 3. It's worked fine so far, but... I'm interested in the replies.

[MissKNG]

I'm not a Saxon "hater" but when researching Saxon (and I obtained a free sample from them), I ruled it out because of it's "incremental development" approach. I thought that sounded too slow for my big girl.

 

But, from what I hear, Saxon is a great program with great results. It's just not for every family.

Edited May 6, 2010 by MissKNG

[angela in ohio]

The complaint about Saxon K-3 is usually that it is time consuming. If you don't mind that, you are fine. it is slightly behind the usualy pacing, so you need to be aware of that as you go forward and make decisions about what you will end up in.

 

I think Saxon from 5/4 on up is awful. I used to say, "Well, it works for some kiddos." But then I taught Saxon to a group of junior high students this past year. If someone manages to do well with it, I think it is because they would have done well with anything. I think the incremental approach sucks all the joy right out of math. You just plod along, completing exercises. There is no explanation of big pictures or where you are going. I kept having to teach ahead of the book, because sometimes if was just silly to teach the bit they wanted you to teach without going on to the next bit that made the first bit make sense (not that that makes much sense, sorry.)

 

As the review said, Saxon is popular because it can be done independently. For a lot of homeschoolers, that is their primary consideration of a math program. It sounds like you are willing to do math with your child, so you can use something else.

[cottagechick]

Sometimes having too many choices is not such a great thing. Don't get me wrong, I love to research curriculum, but it can take over my life sometimes. Second-guessing my choices over the years has sapped much-needed time just doing school. Did you know that when a person makes a choice knowing that it can't be changed, they are more likely to love the choice they made? It causes them to be creative in making the choice work, and hence gives them satisfaction and a feeling of accomplishment. There's been research in this area, and I'll need to go find that and re-read it myself!

 

When I started homeschooling 13 years ago, Saxon didn't even have a K-3 program. We used MCP in the younger grades, then Saxon 5/4- Algebra 2. There just weren't a lot of other choices. I remember using Jacobs for Geometry with my oldest because it was truly the only other option to Saxon at that level back then. All the kids have tested fine, coped with high school level math well, and have a solid understanding of the world of math even though they weren't 'mathy' kids.

 

I have to constantly remind myself that it's not the curriculum, but the teacher that determines success. In other words, it it ain't broke, don't fix it. IME, only switch programs if *you* are struggling with the curriculum. And even then (and if the child is truly struggling), sometimes it just needs tweaked or used with a bit of creativity or supplimentation. Saxon may not be as popular on this particular board, but I work in a homeschool bookstore, and Saxon continues to be the #1 choice for both experienced and newbie homeschool families. My kids didn't love Saxon, but they figured it was better than the math in public school. :lol: They worked with it, and it worked for them.

 

Now a disclaimer: With my middle kids *I* couldn't deal with the K-3 Saxon levels and tried other programs (Horizons). I also had a child who would burst out in tears with the Saxon middle grade levels, so we tried something else with her (TT). Now with my youngers I'm going with Math Mammoth and then Life of Fred because one boy is pencil phobic and easily overwhelmed, so I believe Saxon would overwhelm him. The younger could do Saxon easily, but for my sanity I want to keep them in the same program. But I still wouldn't hesitate recommending Saxon to new homeschoolers and veterans alike. It's a solid, time-tested program that still spins circles around anything a child would get in most public schools.

 

peace.

cindy

[LisaKinVA]

I don't hate Saxon. I started out with it, but when my oldest CRIED every time I pulled out math... I figured I needed to change my ways (my mom told me to just make him do it. He was 5.):glare: I never went back.

 

Every program (no matter how loved) is not good for every person. My SIL tried to homeschool, and decided to use SL. I knew it wouldn't last. My SIL isn't that "type" of person (neither am I). It was too much for her, she put her kids in school because she "couldn't" homeschool.

 

I read about other things I use that people just *hate*, but it works for us, and I'm not changing because someone else can't stand what we're doing.

[HollyDay]

*I* do not like Saxon. My youngest loves it. My oldest has come to appreciate it. My oldest has used many different maths, MUS, Abeka, Saxon, TT, LOF, Key to...., and we have returned to Saxon. She did not like Saxon in the 67 and I hated it, so it was not an issue to leave the program. But, when we were at a loss for math this year, we decided to try Saxon again (algebra 1/2). She is finally learning math. She finally is understanding math. She finally has the review she needs. She is not hating Saxon now because she sees that she needs it.

 

Now, my youngest started out in Saxon 1st grade. I just couldn't put up with the scripted program. We went to BJU. She hated it and did not progress well with it. Back to Saxon we went. She loves it. She looks forward to math. She wants to continue with Saxon.

 

They are happy. I'll keep using it.

[creekmom]

My first 2 did Saxon 1-3 in K-2nd and moved on to Saxon 5/4 in 3rd grade. My 3rd dc did not do well in Saxon. He needed more practice with each new concept than Saxon gave on the worksheets. He also needed "color"!! I switched to Abeka math for him this year in 1st grade, and he is doing much better! Abeka is spiral, but they spend a looooong time on the basics. He has a short timed drill each day that is still practice on the addition/subtraction problems. Saxon simply moved too fast for him, and I was burned out on the meeting book and overall length of the lessons.

That said, I LOVE Saxon in the higher grades! My plan for my 3rd and 4th dc is to use Abeka for K-2 and move into Saxon 5/4 in 3rd grade.

[robsiew]

I have heard both good and bad about Saxon. I don't use it mainly because I do not agree with the spiral approach. I want a mastery program so we went with MUS. I will not budge on that so Saxon was not an option. However, I know many people who use it and love it.

 

If it's working for you I think you need to stick with it no matter what other people say. Switching math programs can be problematic and can lead to holes that may be hard to fill later. I would never encourage anyone to change something that is working well for them just because there are some people who don't agree. That will always be the case no matter what you choose!

[Melissa in CA]

I think Saxon from 5/4 on up is awful. I used to say, "Well, it works for some kiddos." But then I taught Saxon to a group of junior high students this past year. If someone manages to do well with it, I think it is because they would have done well with anything. I think the incremental approach sucks all the joy right out of math. You just plod along, completing exercises. There is no explanation of big pictures or where you are going. I kept having to teach ahead of the book, because sometimes if was just silly to teach the bit they wanted you to teach without going on to the next bit that made the first bit make sense

 

:iagree:

 

Used it several years with my older boys. REFUSE to even consider it for younger ds. There are much better choices out there now. Shoot, *I* could teach math better than Saxon! :lol: OK, yeah, I probably couldn't but if Saxon were all I had to use, I think I WOULD try to teach it myself before resorting back to that torturous, gad-awful, incrementally-confusing program. :tongue_smilie:

 

My understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) is that the younger elementary grades are much different than the older and were written by a different author. Which may explain why some love it for k-3.

[Melissa in CA]

If it's working for you I think you need to stick with it no matter what other people say. Switching math programs can be problematic and can lead to holes that may be hard to fill later. I would never encourage anyone to change something that is working well for them just because there are some people who don't agree. That will always be the case no matter what you choose!

 

:iagree:

 

Just because some of us find it awful, does not mean that you and yours will. ;)

[amyco]

Like other posters on this thread, my dc were fine with Saxon 1-3, but I came to hate it...please, not one more timed fact sheet or turning my pantry into a store with prices on everything!! When my dd got to Saxon 54, somehow she had a mental block and hated it.

 

So I switched to Math-U-See, which was fine for a while (my dd actually started to "love math"), but now I don't like that either. (Which is beyond the scope of this thread.;)) My son is eager to switch back to Saxon, so next year he'll be in Saxon 65. He needs more review built in and is so tired of the same topic all year. My dd will be doing Dolciani pre-algebra (or Lial's BCM, I've narrowed that down).

 

So I won't be using Saxon in the upper levels--just a personal preference, nothing against Saxon.

 

I was doing some checking on Saxon and came across some very interesting articles about the publisher and how they have changed it--especially the Homeschool version of Saxon math. (Forgive me if this link is inflammatory or controversial, I'm clueless, I just thought it was interesting.)

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/taylor/taylor75.html

[Homeschooling6]

Art Reed wrote a book about Saxon Math there is a section that talks about John Saxon. Just thought it was interesting :D.

[Quickbeam]

If someone manages to do well with it, I think it is because they would have done well with anything.

 

This is my fear. I am math phobic (though getting better), and I worry that Saxon would be a bad fit for us unless the children are naturally gifted at math.

 

Great thread; thanks for starting it.

[Robin in DFW]

only had so-so feelings for 6/5, 7/6 and a wee bit of 8/7. My ds did well with it early on, but as we continued to use it, he got frustrated with the continual review and having so many different problems to do each day. And we did the lessons exactly as suggested, no skipping.

 

For him, the earlier topics were fine being covered lightly over a period of time, but as he got the higher levels, he found some of the explanations confusing or lacking and we were regularly looking for an alternative explanation in our Basic College Math book!

 

Since we were referencing the BCM so much, we just decided to switch to that and we've had great success.

 

Saxon served my ds well for the time he used it. I like it for the ease of use. He just needed a different approach.

 

hth

[AHASRADA]

Speaking from experience as a Saxon user as well as a curriculum researcher/flip-flopper... Saxon really does work great for some kids! We have used Saxon 2, 3, and now 5/4. We used RightStart for grade 1, and it just didn't work for us as a curriculum, although the games were useful.

 

I had never seriously considered using Saxon, because of the "bad rap". In my circles, Singapore was the next great thing (which worked fine for ds in levels 2 and 3, then WE adults started to get lost in the 2nd half of level 4, and dropped it).

 

My comment on Saxon is, if it is working, stick with it. The reason many parents don't like it (spiral, too much review, broken into tiny bits, etc.) is the reason it works for certain kids. My dd desperately needs constant repetition. A mastery approach for her would equal "remember it for the end of chapter test and promptly forget it". Saxon would have driven ds insane, since he works well with mastery. Yes, levels 1-3 can become quite tedious and time-consuming if you follow the manual to a T. I never had dd do the back of the worksheet (the "homework"), and we started alternating the warm-up activities (instead of doing them all everyday, we would do one or two each day, alternating). Once you allow yourself to customize and not do everything in the manual if your dc doesn't need to, it's not so bad. 5/4 has been a breeze! I go over the "very brief" lesson with her, and she does the problems, which I check. Done! We don't do the timed tests daily, only weekly.

 

Now, as the curriculum researcher/flip-flopper...BTDT with a perfectly good curriculum, working perfectly well for us, but feeling there is some little piece that is missing that might be better taught with a different curriculum. Usually, I find that this "new and better" curriculum has gaps of its own, and end up regretting the switch. If Saxon is missing a little something, fill it in yourself, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Personally, I usually pick up a used math book that has more color, more visuals, graphs, and more creative problem solving. We do Saxon four days a week, and pick out parts of the other book that are different than Saxon to do on the 5th day. Depending on what your ds needs, you could use some Key to... workbooks, Singapore word problems, even colorful workbooks from the local bookstore, etc. We have used Calvert math as a supplement, and it worked well (a used textbook, not the complete program!)

 

Addressing the math facts specifically, no, I do not believe another curriculum will teach you specific rules for the "oddball" facts. Saxon is the only program I have used that actually includes pre-planned, specific fact practice within the curriculum. Most others will simply introduce the facts and move on, expecting you to practice somehow on your own. The fact that Saxon includes the flashcards and reminds you to practice certain facts everyday is fabulous! Another program might have a different way of remembering these facts, such as with chants or using visual dots on a page, but yes, he just has to remember them.

 

When we got to multiplication, we used Memorize in Minutes http://www.multiplication.com/order.htm, which was a lifesaver. It uses pictures and stories to teach the facts, because straight memorizing, and even the skip counting taught in Saxon, just wasn't enough for us.

 

No one program will "do it all", even if it is working well. But, IMHO, I would stick with it, and just add in a little something here and there to liven things up and provide a different perspective.

 

HTH,

[Love2Smile]

Saxon is the ONLY math curriculum I will use! We are finishing up 7/6 and 8/7. My 6th grader did 7/6 pretty independantly this whole year. In fact she is done. My older dd needs some help, but the constant review is what makes her GET it! I have tried Horizons, (hated it), BJU (too teacher intensive), Abeka, (confusing, no explainations), Teaching Textbooks, (a disaster in our house, too easy for younger child, NO review for older child), MUS (we did NOT see it).

 

Saxon is perfect in this house! Lots of review, plenty of explainations, and LOVE the new TEACHER DVD's!

[Orthodox6]

If it's working for you I think you need to stick with it no matter what other people say. Switching math programs can be problematic and can lead to holes that may be hard to fill later. I would never encourage anyone to change something that is working well for them just because there are some people who don't agree. That will always be the case no matter what you choose!

 

 

:iagree: I loathe [ ! ! ! ] Saxon math at all levels, K-12. My experience and analysis, however do not affect you at all ! Your family are doing very well with a program which has been around for a number of years, and from which all manner of students have progressed into successful college years.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Reason's I didn't use Saxon:

Teacher intensive...I thought it overkilled on the easy stuff (like Duffy's review said) with the daily meetings

 

too much practice makes me assign too much work...I just can't help it sometimes :)

 

 

As for 9+6...an easy rule....lower the 6 by 1 and add a ten....notice how the answer, 15, if you add the digits, makes a 6? This will be true for the nines: 9+4 = 13 (3+1 = 4), 9+7=16 (1+6=7)...just teach them to make tens :)

 

For multiplication the answer always adds to 9...9x9=81 (8+1 = 9), 9x6=54 (5+4=9), 9x12=108 (1+0+8=9) AND you can have them hold up fingers at first...the number that is being multiplied by 9, for example 9x6, hold up 6 fingers...take away 1 finger...you now have 5 fingers up. Ask yourself, what number would I add to 5 to get 9? 4...9x6=54 (5+4=9)

[Old Dominion Heather]

Main reasons I don't use Saxon:

 

1. It is at least a year behind the difficulty level of the math that the PS uses. And the PS here is not advanced.

 

2. It kills any love of math, at least that has been my experience.

 

3. There is no provision, other than skipping lessons for a child who is capable of more.

 

4. Used at the pace it is intended, it doesn't give a strong enough math background, IMO, for a student who wishes to pursue a math/science course of study at a college level.

[AngieW in Texas]

As long as Saxon works for you and your child, you should stick with it.

 

I would have failed math if I had had to use Saxon. In fact, all three of my kids would have too, despite the fact that all of us are mathy.

 

We just don't learn the way that Saxon teaches. We all need to be able to see the big picture from the start. Saxon teaches in teeny little steps and even those teeny little steps are widely spaced. Their lesson order makes absolutely no sense to me. I have only looked at the higher levels of Saxon.

[Shasta Mom]

DS was in ps for Grades k-2, and they used Saxon. I wasn't a critic then and didn't have much to comment on. It seemed fine. Then, we started hs'ing in 3rd, I researched curricula and decided to try Singapore. Although good at math, at the beginning of grade 3 he tested at 2A, so we started there and finished 4B at the end of 4th grade. Circumstances warranted him returning to ps for 5th. At the beginning of the year, his 5th grade teacher told me he was the most advanced math student in the entire 5th grade - all classes. The Saxon math was all too easy for him, and we thought the "incremental" (more aptly named chaotic and random) approach was counterproductive. Now, near the end of 5th grade, after a year of Saxon, he's dumbed down to be in the middle of the pack again.

I went into this without an opinion, but after our experience, I loathe Saxon! This summer, we're back on Singapore........

[forty-two]

RightStart math teaches strategies for all the facts (I had no idea that Saxon taught any strategies, actually - but I know very little about Saxon). But I think you did fine adding in strategies where Saxon lacked them; if that is your only complaint, I'm not sure I'd switch over it.

[Homeschooling6]

Like other posters on this thread, my dc were fine with Saxon 1-3, but I came to hate it...please, not one more timed fact sheet or turning my pantry into a store with prices on everything!! When my dd got to Saxon 54, somehow she had a mental block and hated it.

 

So I switched to Math-U-See, which was fine for a while (my dd actually started to "love math"), but now I don't like that either. (Which is beyond the scope of this thread.;)) My son is eager to switch back to Saxon, so next year he'll be in Saxon 65. He needs more review built in and is so tired of the same topic all year. My dd will be doing Dolciani pre-algebra (or Lial's BCM, I've narrowed that down).

 

So I won't be using Saxon in the upper levels--just a personal preference, nothing against Saxon.

 

I was doing some checking on Saxon and came across some very interesting articles about the publisher and how they have changed it--especially the Homeschool version of Saxon math. (Forgive me if this link is inflammatory or controversial, I'm clueless, I just thought it was interesting.)

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/taylor/taylor75.html

 

I have read some of Linda Taylor's articles with regarding Saxon and IMHO it seems in later articles that she is upset more with the softback books. I didn't find any comparisons though with the editions. In fact when she wrote the first article she wasn't aware that John Saxon had passed away.

 

Her first article was written in 2004 the same year when Saxon was sold. She wouldn't have even been able to compare books at that time.

 

Here is a comparison of the Saxon editions you have to scroll down.

 

Just more food for thought. :blush:

Edited May 6, 2010 by Homeschooling6

[Lovedtodeath]

The incremental approach is why I dropped Horizons. I don't think DD was bothered by it though, only me. I probably should have kept at it.

[Spy Car]

Reason's I didn't use Saxon:

Teacher intensive...I thought it overkilled on the easy stuff (like Duffy's review said) with the daily meetings

 

too much practice makes me assign too much work...I just can't help it sometimes :)

 

 

As for 9+6...an easy rule....lower the 6 by 1 and add a ten....notice how the answer, 15, if you add the digits, makes a 6? This will be true for the nines: 9+4 = 13 (3+1 = 4), 9+7=16 (1+6=7)...just teach them to make tens :)

 

For multiplication the answer always adds to 9...9x9=81 (8+1 = 9), 9x6=54 (5+4=9), 9x12=108 (1+0+8=9) AND you can have them hold up fingers at first...the number that is being multiplied by 9, for example 9x6, hold up 6 fingers...take away 1 finger...you now have 5 fingers up. Ask yourself, what number would I add to 5 to get 9? 4...9x6=54 (5+4=9)

 

I've never used Saxon, but these examples (and many other "methods" in Saxon shared by other parents in other threads) give me the hives.

 

I see a big difference between teaching a "strategy" for solving mental math that promotes mathematical thinking (re-grouping to make a "Ten" when adding 8 and 7 for example) and using "tricks".

 

Teaching 9 + 6 involves lowering the 6 (while I'll grant you is similar to making Tens, involves a "trick" that can allow a student to get a "correct answer" without comprehending why they are doing what they are doing. And if you start laying a foundation on the not really well understood application of "tricks" to solve equations then no amount of repetition may make up for the fact that the child doesn't really "get it."

 

You can drill them to death, provoke their anxieties with speed-tests and other weird methods, or just teach them the mathematical reasoning using clear methods from the outset. I know which approach I prefer.

 

Bill

[dancer67]

We are considering switching into Saxon 5/4 or 6/5. From CLE. My daughter needs to have a spiral/incremental approach or she will forget. She is not a mathy kid, and the more review of earlier concepts, the better. If we choose the Saxon route, we will use the Teaching Tapes to go along with it. I am not a "mathy" mom at all, so I need someone else to do the teaching.

CLE was okay, but if she got stuck, I had a hard time explaining things to her. Hence, the DVD help we really need.

I hear good/bad things about Saxon. But isn't that with every math program?

Personally, I cannot stand Singapore. It gives me a headache:lol:

[Just Robyn]

I am a Saxon user and sort of a flip-flop lover/hater. We have used K-2 with my oldest and K and part of 1 with my middle child. After a break from Saxon and doing workbooks and Math Mammoth instead, I think we are ready to begin Saxon 3 (supplemented by MM) with my oldest.

 

Things I hate about Saxon:

 

Sometimes they will instroduce a subject and not come back to it for very long time, and it's not on the review worksheets.

 

"Hey, do you remember when we did arrays 4 months ago?"

"Uh, no.":001_huh:

 

So far, none of my children have developed a love of math.

 

There is something about Saxon that just drags on. By the end of a book I am ready to drill a hole through my head. I don't know why.

 

As a PP pointed out, there is no color. We have to supplement with colorful workbooks.

 

I do not like cutting out construction paper shapes all the time. Please charge me an extra $5 and provide them.

 

I don't mind that there is sometimes too much repetition because we can skip lessons that I find unnecessary. I like that there are daily lessons. My need for daily lessons is what keeps me from switching to Singapore. I don't mind the script because I just choose not to read it verbatim.

 

ETA: I should not have come on this thread. I am *again* starting to question whether I should ever take Saxon 3 off the shelf.:glare:

Edited May 6, 2010 by crstarlette

[Lovedtodeath]

I've never used Saxon, but these examples (and many other "methods" in Saxon shared by other parents in other threads) give me the hives.

I have a friend who loves Saxon because it shows so many angles to get the same answer and so many tricks. Her oldest is now a computer engineer. She is using it with all of her other three children as well.

 

To be fair, I think perhaps Tina's examples are her own tricks, not examples of Saxon.

[Just Robyn]

As for 9+6...an easy rule....lower the 6 by 1 and add a ten....notice how the answer, 15, if you add the digits, makes a 6? This will be true for the nines: 9+4 = 13 (3+1 = 4), 9+7=16 (1+6=7)...just teach them to make tens :)

 

For multiplication the answer always adds to 9...9x9=81 (8+1 = 9), 9x6=54 (5+4=9), 9x12=108 (1+0+8=9) AND you can have them hold up fingers at first...the number that is being multiplied by 9, for example 9x6, hold up 6 fingers...take away 1 finger...you now have 5 fingers up. Ask yourself, what number would I add to 5 to get 9? 4...9x6=54 (5+4=9)

 

I have a friend who loves Saxon because it shows so many angles to get the same answer and so many tricks. Her oldest is now a computer engineer. She is using it with all of her other three children as well.

 

To be fair, I think perhaps Tina's examples are her own tricks, not examples of Saxon.

 

I feel better knowing Saxon math users can become engineers, BUT those tricks are actual lessons in Saxon. I remember the addition one for sure anyway, and assume the multiplication one is in Saxon 3.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you for clarifying for us!

[scrappyhappymama]

I'm not a Saxon "hater" but when researching Saxon (and I obtained a free sample from them), I ruled it out because of it's "incremental development" approach. I thought that sounded too slow for my big girl.

 

May I ask what curriculum you choose instead? What approach does it take instead of "incremental development?"

 

I think Saxon from 5/4 on up is awful. I used to say, "Well, it works for some kiddos." But then I taught Saxon to a group of junior high students this past year. If someone manages to do well with it, I think it is because they would have done well with anything. I think the incremental approach sucks all the joy right out of math. You just plod along, completing exercises. There is no explanation of big pictures or where you are going. I kept having to teach ahead of the book, because sometimes if was just silly to teach the bit they wanted you to teach without going on to the next bit that made the first bit make sense (not that that makes much sense, sorry.)

 

Same question. :D Which program do you prefer over Saxon, and why? How does it provide a better "big picture?" There are some things I've really liked about the incremental approach- primarily the early introduction to algebraic and geometric concepts, or the foundations for regrouping with all the coin practice. BUT, I must admit to being annoyed by the example someone else gave of regrouping being introduced at the end of level 1 and not seen again until the middle of level 2. My son "got it" the first time and it took a long, long time to revisit it again.

 

I have heard both good and bad about Saxon. I don't use it mainly because I do not agree with the spiral approach. I want a mastery program so we went with MUS. I will not budge on that so Saxon was not an option. However, I know many people who use it and love it.

 

Can you please explain more about the mastery approach? Does this mean the lessons cover the same new concept for a while before moving on? If so, does this gets tedious at all, doing the same thing each day, or is it presented in a way that keeps it interesting from day to day?

 

If it's working for you I think you need to stick with it no matter what other people say. Switching math programs can be problematic and can lead to holes that may be hard to fill later. I would never encourage anyone to change something that is working well for them just because there are some people who don't agree. That will always be the case no matter what you choose!

 

This has been mentioned a lot, and I appreciate the sentiment. I DO agree that I shouldn't switch curriculum just because others hate it or because the grass seems greener.

 

However, I do want to make sure that there isn't a program that is fundamentally better that would actually work better for our family. My oldest son picks up on math really easily, and is ready for more advanced concepts which we just end up covering as he questions me. He also complains about math a lot, even though he does it with no problem. I think he is getting frustrated with the tedium somewhat and even when new concepts are finally introduced says, "I know that already mom!" He's got lots of confidence, which is great, but I want him to LOVE math too. Am I asking too much? :lol:

 

 

Used it several years with my older boys. REFUSE to even consider it for younger ds. There are much better choices out there now. Shoot, *I* could teach math better than Saxon! :lol: OK, yeah, I probably couldn't but if Saxon were all I had to use, I think I WOULD try to teach it myself before resorting back to that torturous, gad-awful, incrementally-confusing program. :tongue_smilie:

 

Please, will you elaborate on this? What was it about Saxon that led you to reject it so strongly? :D What are the better choices in your opinion, and what specifically do you prefer about them over Saxon? I've seen LOTS of comments like your in Saxon discussion threads, but not a lot of details about why! I know we're all being careful about not "bashing" a program that someone else loves and uses successfully. But this is my thread, and I asked for it! :D

 

Like other posters on this thread, my dc were fine with Saxon 1-3, but I came to hate it...please, not one more timed fact sheet or turning my pantry into a store with prices on everything!! When my dd got to Saxon 54, somehow she had a mental block and hated it.

 

LOL, now this I appreciate! I do dread the "pantry" days, especially when they want me to leave the stuff priced and ready for another week or two before we come back to the next pantry lesson!

 

only had so-so feelings for 6/5, 7/6 and a wee bit of 8/7. My ds did well with it early on, but as we continued to use it, he got frustrated with the continual review and having so many different problems to do each day. And we did the lessons exactly as suggested, no skipping.

 

For him, the earlier topics were fine being covered lightly over a period of time, but as he got the higher levels, he found some of the explanations confusing or lacking and we were regularly looking for an alternative explanation in our Basic College Math book!

 

Since we were referencing the BCM so much, we just decided to switch to that and we've had great success.

 

Saxon served my ds well for the time he used it. I like it for the ease of use. He just needed a different approach.

 

hth

 

This IS helpful, thanks! I don't mind supplementing, but I want my children to "get" the main text we choose to use. And IF I do decide to switch, I'd rather do it earlier rather than later, for as much continuity as possible as the concepts get more involved.

[scrappyhappymama]

Speaking from experience as a Saxon user as well as a curriculum researcher/flip-flopper... Saxon really does work great for some kids! We have used Saxon 2, 3, and now 5/4. We used RightStart for grade 1, and it just didn't work for us as a curriculum, although the games were useful.

 

I had never seriously considered using Saxon, because of the "bad rap". In my circles, Singapore was the next great thing (which worked fine for ds in levels 2 and 3, then WE adults started to get lost in the 2nd half of level 4, and dropped it).

 

My comment on Saxon is, if it is working, stick with it. The reason many parents don't like it (spiral, too much review, broken into tiny bits, etc.) is the reason it works for certain kids. My dd desperately needs constant repetition. A mastery approach for her would equal "remember it for the end of chapter test and promptly forget it". Saxon would have driven ds insane, since he works well with mastery. Yes, levels 1-3 can become quite tedious and time-consuming if you follow the manual to a T. I never had dd do the back of the worksheet (the "homework"), and we started alternating the warm-up activities (instead of doing them all everyday, we would do one or two each day, alternating). Once you allow yourself to customize and not do everything in the manual if your dc doesn't need to, it's not so bad. 5/4 has been a breeze! I go over the "very brief" lesson with her, and she does the problems, which I check. Done! We don't do the timed tests daily, only weekly.

 

Now, as the curriculum researcher/flip-flopper...BTDT with a perfectly good curriculum, working perfectly well for us, but feeling there is some little piece that is missing that might be better taught with a different curriculum. Usually, I find that this "new and better" curriculum has gaps of its own, and end up regretting the switch. If Saxon is missing a little something, fill it in yourself, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Personally, I usually pick up a used math book that has more color, more visuals, graphs, and more creative problem solving. We do Saxon four days a week, and pick out parts of the other book that are different than Saxon to do on the 5th day. Depending on what your ds needs, you could use some Key to... workbooks, Singapore word problems, even colorful workbooks from the local bookstore, etc. We have used Calvert math as a supplement, and it worked well (a used textbook, not the complete program!)

 

Addressing the math facts specifically, no, I do not believe another curriculum will teach you specific rules for the "oddball" facts. Saxon is the only program I have used that actually includes pre-planned, specific fact practice within the curriculum. Most others will simply introduce the facts and move on, expecting you to practice somehow on your own. The fact that Saxon includes the flashcards and reminds you to practice certain facts everyday is fabulous! Another program might have a different way of remembering these facts, such as with chants or using visual dots on a page, but yes, he just has to remember them.

 

When we got to multiplication, we used Memorize in Minutes http://www.multiplication.com/order.htm, which was a lifesaver. It uses pictures and stories to teach the facts, because straight memorizing, and even the skip counting taught in Saxon, just wasn't enough for us.

 

No one program will "do it all", even if it is working well. But, IMHO, I would stick with it, and just add in a little something here and there to liven things up and provide a different perspective.

 

HTH,

 

This is super helpful, thank you! I think I am starting to realize in reading through all these comments, that my oldest son would probably be happier with more of a mastery approach, if I am understanding what that means.

 

On the other hand, so far it looks like my Kindergartner will really thrive with the Saxon approach. My boys have very different learning styles and personalities, so I can definitely appreciate how Saxon could be ideal for some children, and not at all for others.

 

So far, I've equated ease of use and my older son being able to do the work without any trouble as it "working for us." And like I said, we actually enjoy the meeting book and meeting strips and even most of the spiralling, which were the primary specific complaints I've read about Saxon, so I never have considered switching. But, in consideration of my son's learning style and appreciation of math, I do want to provide him with something better suited to him if it is out there.

 

 

I loathe [ ! ! ! ] Saxon math at all levels, K-12. My experience and analysis, however do not affect you at all ! Your family are doing very well with a program which has been around for a number of years, and from which all manner of students have progressed into successful college years.

 

:D Ahem... Why do you loathe Saxon? :D Your experience and analysis could very well apply to me if I agree with it, or if my son would thrive with another program instead! Help me out here! :lol:

 

Main reasons I don't use Saxon:

 

1. It is at least a year behind the difficulty level of the math that the PS uses. And the PS here is not advanced.

 

2. It kills any love of math, at least that has been my experience.

 

3. There is no provision, other than skipping lessons for a child who is capable of more.

 

4. Used at the pace it is intended, it doesn't give a strong enough math background, IMO, for a student who wishes to pursue a math/science course of study at a college level.

 

THIS! Yes, this is exactly my concern. I was always a... I don't know if there is a term for this, but I was always a natural at math growing up. It came easily to me and I'd breeze through the worksheets in class and go back to reading, which I loved. Math was easy for me, but I came to hate it. And when I finally got to trigonometry and calculus , I found it very difficult because there were too many concepts I had never really learned, I just knew them well enough to get 100's on my tests and then move on.

 

I really, really don't want this for my son. He too has a lot of natural ability in math, but I am seeing him start to like it less and less.

 

As long as Saxon works for you and your child, you should stick with it.

 

I would have failed math if I had had to use Saxon. In fact, all three of my kids would have too, despite the fact that all of us are mathy.

 

We just don't learn the way that Saxon teaches. We all need to be able to see the big picture from the start. Saxon teaches in teeny little steps and even those teeny little steps are widely spaced. Their lesson order makes absolutely no sense to me. I have only looked at the higher levels of Saxon.

 

What do you use instead? Is there a curriculum that you've found that you feel works better for mathy kids?

 

DS was in ps for Grades k-2, and they used Saxon. I wasn't a critic then and didn't have much to comment on. It seemed fine. Then, we started hs'ing in 3rd, I researched curricula and decided to try Singapore. Although good at math, at the beginning of grade 3 he tested at 2A, so we started there and finished 4B at the end of 4th grade. Circumstances warranted him returning to ps for 5th. At the beginning of the year, his 5th grade teacher told me he was the most advanced math student in the entire 5th grade - all classes. The Saxon math was all too easy for him, and we thought the "incremental" (more aptly named chaotic and random) approach was counterproductive. Now, near the end of 5th grade, after a year of Saxon, he's dumbed down to be in the middle of the pack again.

I went into this without an opinion, but after our experience, I loathe Saxon! This summer, we're back on Singapore........

 

Thank you for being so frank! Lots to think about. For some reason I've always felt a bit resistant toward Singapore, but I've never looked into it other than the CWP which we enjoy. I think I need to pick up a copy and really start to explore our options!

[Orthodox6]

Perhaps what I dislike the most about Saxon are the frequently poor explanations. I tired of tossing the book aside and teaching my children myself.

[scrappyhappymama]

I've never used Saxon, but these examples (and many other "methods" in Saxon shared by other parents in other threads) give me the hives.

 

I see a big difference between teaching a "strategy" for solving mental math that promotes mathematical thinking (re-grouping to make a "Ten" when adding 8 and 7 for example) and using "tricks".

 

Teaching 9 + 6 involves lowering the 6 (while I'll grant you is similar to making Tens, involves a "trick" that can allow a student to get a "correct answer" without comprehending why they are doing what they are doing. And if you start laying a foundation on the not really well understood application of "tricks" to solve equations then no amount of repetition may make up for the fact that the child doesn't really "get it."

 

You can drill them to death, provoke their anxieties with speed-tests and other weird methods, or just teach them the mathematical reasoning using clear methods from the outset. I know which approach I prefer.

 

Bill

 

This is what I want. So far, I actually thought we were getting that in Saxon, but this is exactly what I am starting to question. I know that Saxon has been "tried and true" for many families for many years, and I am not trying to knock it (it's all we've used!) But, one of the biggest reasons we homeschool our children is to teach them better than we were taught, and to give them advantages we didn't have. I aced math in school, but never really "got" the reasoning.

 

What do you recommend Bill?

[TracyR]

I agree. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Saxon isn't my favorite math program but it works for my girls. I started out with Saxon with my 2nd daughter and she was doing wonderfully with it. Then we went with a cyber that used Calvert math and at first I was juggling two math programs and she did alright with that ( she was only in 1st so it worked). But after I had my 4th daughter it was chaotic and I switched her to the Calvert. Let's just say it has been a miserable 3 years. I have used Calvert with her and then tried K12's math and she just wasn't picking it up at all. Tears all around. I was not happy with her progress at all. Fastforward to right now and I decided to go back to Saxon with her. She is using Saxon 5/4 at the moment and is back to doing wonderfully. She is MUCH happier as well as I am in her progress.

Also with my third daughter I tried K12's math with her and it worked fine for her for K. But once we hit 1st she wasn't retaining much of anything. Again I'm using Saxon 1 with her and am MUCH happier and its working for her as well.

 

My oldest did well with BJU. She is just a fast learner when it comes to math. She doesn't need to much review to remember things. I've used other math programs with her , Calvert, K12's , and we have tried Saxon but I think I put her in the wrong level. She isn't fond of Saxon but she is going to private school in the fall and since she wants to go , well that's the math they are using.

 

After using mastery math programs and spiral my conclusion is just use what is working for your children. They will eventually pick up the how's and why's along the way. I know I never did until I became an adult. None of that made any sense to me until I became an adult. Why 9+5=14 and so forth. Now if I had used something like Saxon I would of flourished in math when I was a child. I just wanted to know how to do it. I didn't want to know why. Now that I'm an adult I'm finding I'm more curious as to the whys.

Not all children are created equal. My oldest understands the whys of math at a young age. Where my other two just want to know how to do it at the moment and it works for them.

 

Stick with what you are doing! Trust me. I fell into the grass was greener on the other side and all it did was lead to gaps and tons and tons of tears.

 

P.S I don't mind Saxon in the elementary grades. This is my second time around with Saxon K and 1 and I can say that I just use the manual know as a guide. I don't let it dictate how I teach the math and so math for my first grader is done it maybe all of ten minutes now if that.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you for being so frank! Lots to think about. For some reason I've always felt a bit resistant toward Singapore, but I've never looked into it other than the CWP which we enjoy. I think I need to pick up a copy and really start to explore our options!

You can get the benefits of Singapore in some easier ways. HOD schedules Singapore in their guides along with essential hands-on lessons. Math Mammoth is very pick up and go and has the text included in the workbook. It is very similar to Singapore in concepts, etc. HTH!

[MissKNG]

May I ask what curriculum you choose instead? What approach does it take instead of "incremental development?"

 

 

I choose Singapore and Horizons Math for now. Singapore is mastery and Horizons is spiral. I like both math programs but I'm finding I have to skip and compact a lot with Horizons. Even though we just started Singapore 1A last week, I already had to compact Chapter 2 (Number Bonds) because my big girl said she understood and "let's move on".

 

And another reason I choose those math programs was because they are suppose to be fast moving and have more advanced materials. Horizons is composed of 2 books and the second book usually has more of a beginning "grade ahead" feel. So the 2nd book of K was more like beginning first grade math and the 2nd book of Horizons 1 is more like beginning 2nd grade math. I'm actually dropping Horizons K book 2 and just move onto Horizons 1 completely.

 

I'm not mathy and my big girl is very bright in math. So I was looking for more advanced materials that wasn't too scary for me. I also have CWP 1 and Primary Challenge Math.

[LizzyBee]

When I first decided to homeschool, I went to a used bookstore to look for curriculum. A local school had consigned a ton of Saxon, so I picked up a grade 2 teacher's manual. I flipped through it and thought to myself that I would literally throw up if I had to teach that program every day. I have never had such a strong reaction to any other curriculum, so over the years, I've tried to figure out why I instantly hated it so much. I think the main thing was that the TM for 2nd grade math was 3 inches thick. Elementary math is so simple, and Saxon seems to make it very complicated. We ended up using Singapore instead, and if you laid the text and workbooks on top of each other, they are only about an inch thick. SM is just more streamlined and efficient, imo.

 

Several years later, my middle dd needed a break from SM, so I picked up a used Saxon 5/4 book. She liked it at first because it was easy, but after awhile, it was just drudgery. There would only be maybe 3 problems related to the concept taught that day, and 27 review problems. I would pick out the problems related to that day's teaching and then assign maybe 10-12 more problems, but it was still overwhelmingly boring.

 

The worse problem, though, was that some of the lessons were taught in a way that was not mathematically correct. I'd start reading it with her, then I'd have to tell her to ignore what the book said and I'd have to teach the concept differently. Kind of defeats the purpose of using a curriculum that is supposed to be self-teaching.

Edited May 6, 2010 by LizzyBee

[TracyR]

I caution this. I would slowly work your way into it if you really want to drop Saxon. Children who are really mathy get programs that break down math like this. This is from tried and trued experience.

Please know that Bill's oldest child is only a kindergardener so he can suggest these things but he hasn't yet experienced first hand a child that really struggles with math being taught this way.

 

If your children are really mathy they most likely wouldn't struggle with with a math program that teaches the how's and whys to math.

 

Also those who do not like Saxon are mostly likely those that the program just didn't work out for them for whatever reason( child that didn't need review, tears, child that learned the concepts quickly... etc). If your liking what you are using and your children do their math without tears, fighting or struggling then keep up with it. This is my 8 years experience with homeschooling talking. I have come to regret switching my 2nd daughter away from Saxon because I was falling for the " this type of math teaching is better than.." talk. I was for sure thinking that it was the way I was teaching but my daughter was bound to get it. After 3 years of tears, the I don't know, I don't remember, I hate math because I'm stupid. I now know better then to fall for that again.

I had forgotten to mention I tried Singapore with her ( because that was what EVERYONE says was better) and it just brought her into total tears and she would look at me as if I were speaking Chinese to her. Where as I could use Singapore with my oldest and she understood it just fine.

 

Not saying you can't throw in something like Math Mammoth or Singapore on the side. But I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water until you know for 100% sure that your children can understand math in this way.

 

I mean if it really bothers you, you can take out some manipulatives and show him why they odd ball numbers add up the way they do. I mean that is about what the other math programs do anyways. Mastery math programs are not magical.

 

This is what I want. So far, I actually thought we were getting that in Saxon, but this is exactly what I am starting to question. I know that Saxon has been "tried and true" for many families for many years, and I am not trying to knock it (it's all we've used!) But, one of the biggest reasons we homeschool our children is to teach them better than we were taught, and to give them advantages we didn't have. I aced math in school, but never really "got" the reasoning.

 

What do you recommend Bill?

[HollyDay]

I just wanted to jump back in here a minute. Yes, Saxon has TONS of review. This would drive some dc (and their mom's) crazy. Some, like my oldest, must have tons of review. She needs to constantly go over and over and over things to get them cemented in her mind. I am personally sick of volume/surface area/lateral surface area. But, she is still struggling with the concept so she needs it.

 

My youngest likes to do math problems. Go figure. She likes to do the ones she knows and "see how fast" she can do them. The constant review does not bother her. I've told her she can skip problems she knows, but she wants to do them anyway - again to see how fast she can do them. I'm not complaining. Saxon is working. I never thought it would. I never wanted to use this program. Again, if it isn't broke, I'm not going to fix it. But, each dc is very different. Teach to the learning style and needs of the individual.

[Lovedtodeath]

I see homeschoolers complaining about too many problems to complete in a day, not just with Saxon, but with many programs. I remember when I was in public school we almost always had 100... yes. I remember clearly. 100 every day. People are complaining about Saxon and Abeka because some of the lessons have more than 25. Really?

[Orthodox6]

I Yes, Saxon has TONS of review.

 

l.

 

 

Not so, if you stop to consider something. I understand "review" to follow the initial learning of a concept. Saxon introduces a concept, blips through with a tiny, insufficient number of practice problems, them waits until the next day for the topic to appear again. The topic has not yet been learned sufficiently for review even to take place ! Two of my children keyed into this inadequacy of the program and added the complaint to their laundry list of why they were begging me to dump the product.

[Karen in CO]

I was determined to never use Saxon and spent many years trying tons of other things. I finally switched TO Saxon around Thanksgiving of this year and won't ever change again. My dd was 9 and could mulitple, divide and do some basic Algebra. She had a terrific understanding of math concepts, but she was ashamed and thought she was terrible at math, because she didn't know how to write place value to a million or tell time to a minute. Those were things I had neglected to teach her.

 

My brother is a high school math teacher who suggested that I try Saxon. His district evaluated it, and he prefered it over all of the other things that were out there being peddled to the high schools. He liked the repetition and the fact that it is incremental. After teaching Algebra 1 through Prec-Calc to thousands of students, those are the things he wants in a book. Solid directions that a student can look back at are important. Definitions of terms are crucial. Large Problem sets are required so that the easy stuff becomes automatic. Of course his district chose something else, but Saxon was his first choice.

 

My dd doesn't like it. It doesn't make me smile when I get up in the moning, but it does get our math consistently completed. I know that I'm not going to forget to teach her something. It isn't the only thing I use for math, because in the end, it is the TEACHER that really matters. I don't drill into her that she has to do everything the Saxon way, but I will use it to steadily lead her from elementary math up through where I turn her over to my brother or a college math professor. It isn't colorful, but my dd is so she uses colored pencils for her work. It doesn't have the most exciting word problems in the world, but lots of other places specialize in that. My dd knows that it is Saxon 3 days a week for the rest of her school days, and she's okay with that. She also now knows that she is great at math.

[TracyR]

One other thing. Our Catholic school in the area uses Saxon math. They have the highest test scores out of All of the Catholic schools in the county. So I guess Saxon math isn't all that bad(I've seen their statistics).

Anyways my 10 yr old is much happier these days and I hear more of " I CAN do this! rather then the " I'm stupid, I'm stupid in math". I'd take that any day over stewing whether its the right way of teaching math. It is, its her right way.

Edited May 6, 2010 by TracyR

[Homemama2]

I chose not to go w/ Saxon in the first place bc the couple friends of mine that use it (most of my friends are straight Abeka) say that math takes them a good hour a day (for grades 1-3). I hate math and the thought of an hour a day made me run in the opposite direction. Now I've heard plenty of people on here say that it doesn't take that long, so I think that it may be more of my 'friend' than the 'curriculum'. But I wasn't on these boards when I was picking my math originally. :001_smile:

 

If it is working, I would stick with it. I wouldn't care if everyone else hated it! (or loved it) ;)

[Pam Wilhelm]

I did Saxon with the kids early on.......... K - 3 and it just made me want to vomit every.single.day!!! I HATED IT!!!!.........and so the kids did too. The kids never seemed to be able to "do" math outside of the textbook...... so finally I switched them all to MUS and started them all back at Alpha. They all did very well and progressed very rapidly. I have now switched the girls back to Saxon and are doing well, very well.

 

I would never recommend the lower grades of Saxon but feel that from 54 on up are quite adequate if that is the approach you are looking for. :D

[fractalgal]

 

What finally got me thinking of looking around was coming to the end of the addition facts and covering the lesson on the "oddballs" - facts that couldn't be solved using the previously learned rules. For example, 6+8 and 9+6, he's expected to just memorize these facts with no real explanation of why they add up to their sums, and he's resorting to counting them up. :confused: This is not like him, because any of the facts with "rules" (doubles, doubles plus one, sums of ten, etc) he has remembered after only the first introduction. So I helped him to devise rules of our own for these oddballs, like trading up to 10 and then adding the remainder and it seems to be helping. But I wonder why, after introducing the bulk of the addition and subtraction facts with helpful rules, these oddballs were just left to be memorized.

 

 

 

I remember this section for the "oddballs" - in other words - they had no trick for these. I remember thinking this was a weak spot in Saxon as well. I had my son use manipulatives to figure them out. We also did something similar to what you described. For 6+8, I showed him that we want to make 8 into a 10 by taking 2 away from the 6 which leaves us with 4 (6+8=4+10=14). This confused him at first, but then after showing it with a few more examples from the other "oddballs" he understood it.

 

For these types of weaknesses in Saxon, I just do my best to explain the concept behind them. All curricula have strengths and weaknesses. I have been very happy with Saxon 3 this year. I think Saxon does an overall good job of teaching the concept behind the ideas in the Saxon 1-3 levels that I have used. Saxon is time consuming, but I have found that with math you reap what you sow. For some children, spending extra time rather than limiting the amount of time spent on math is what is best for them. Others don't need that much time.

 

For my child that used Saxon 3, we also use Singapore level 2. Perhaps this is why I have not had the types of frustration with Saxon that many have had. We do Saxon 3 only 3 days a week and the Singapore 2 on Thursdays and Fridays.

 

I would get bored with using only one curricula. The only time I would not combine curricula for math is if it was overly frustrating one of my children. In that case it would be better to focus on one and then add in another as a supplement only rather than doing two full curricula.

 

Both of my children have done extremely well on every standardized math test they have ever taken - including the one for this year. Whether the credit goes to Saxon, Singapore, or just there own ability is anyone's guess.