The attire of young ladies at church - wwyd? (cc)

[Hoggirl]

This morning at church (Methodist, if it matters) I noticed more than one piece of clothing on our young ladies (youth - grade 7 - 12) that I felt was inappropriate. Really short shorts, spaghetti strap tops, etc. I am NOT an ultraconservative person in how I dress, and I enjoy fun clothes as much as the next person. But, there are things that I might wear on an out-of-town vacation with my husband that I would never wear "locally." And, I certainly wouldn't wear them to church. To me, it is about what is "appropriate" and having a sense of "decorum."

 

Additionally, some of these items would NOT be allowed to be worn at the local public schools. So, why on earth would they be wearing these things to church?

 

So, if this were bugging you, to whom would you say something? The youth director? One of the ministers? The moms of the girls? Or would you say anything at all? I am quite certain my son would be mortified if I were to protest too loudly, so I would like to be discrete about it.

 

Have you ever had this issue in your church? What did you do about it? FWIW, our young ladies are NOT allowed to wear bikinis if they go swimming or to water parks on trips, etc. So, it isn't like the issue isn't addressed at all.

 

Any ideas?

Edited May 2, 2010 by Hoggirl
HORRENDOUS "where" - "wear" mistakes!!! Good grief!

[May]

I know this topic was recently addressed and there were a wide variety of opinions from, be glad they are there, to addressing it with the leadership. I too, am troubled by some of the clothing I see in church. For me, I only address the issue if the person is part of the church service eg. singing in the praise band, reading lessons, ushering etc. In my last church, I did bring up this issue because the pianist for the praise band was showing lots of cleavage. I mentioned this to the elders and someone must have said something to her because it did get better. Oh, did I mention this was the pastor's daughter and my name was associated with this. This was the beginning of the end of many relationships within this church.

[Orthodox6]

This forum is not a friendly environment for your question.

 

A couple of years ago, our archbishop asked me to speak to a teenaged girl about her inappropriate attire worn to the Liturgy. I wanted to honor his request, but I lacked the courage to follow up. Even when something is established, well-known Church teaching, people can react nastily even to the most gentle and kindly-expressed suggestions. Our faith has specific requirements/guidelines for church attire, for both men and for women.

 

Many other Christian groups are not specific about guidelines, I have the impression, which allows for conflicting interpretations of what is "appropriate".

 

As I am unfamiliar with your format of church worship, I don't know whom I would suggest as the proper person to approach in private. Whatever you do, though, if you do something, just be as discreet and as non-hostile as you can manage. From your post, I can tell that you would be trying in a kind manner.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Orthodox6

[Jen500]

I would just let it go.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've found that I have a bigger influence when I am less direct. I have influenced young people by 1. teaching my own children. People notice. (I started a trend of young men wearing suits in our church simply by buying one for ds. The young men wanted to look as snazzy as he did!) 2. being a mentor. In my case, I teach the young people in our church. I do not teach application directly but teach the principles behind things. Young people are smart enough to make their own applications if they are open to the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. 3. Being friendly to young people in the church in general (a continuation of the mentoring idea).

[AK_Mom4]

If it was my kid, I would march them back upstairs and tell them to change.

 

If she had some under garment showing, I might quietly mention it to her so she wouldn't be embarrassed.

 

But it's not my job to dictate what other folks wear to church. Honestly, in our church, she could just go sit with the old ladies wearing short-shorts and tank tops. No one would bat an eye.

[Jmac]

I have found that going to the parents is pointless because those same parents bought the clothes in the first place and think their little princess looks like a doll and asking if the doll they are shooting for is hooker barbie doesn't help. I say that as a joke. please don't flame me. Really the best luck I have had is in actually talking to the girl one on one but if parents don't back you up and church leaders don't inforce......

[SquirrellyMama]

We've had some issues at our church with improper dressing among women also. Improper being a lot of cleavage or short skirts/shorts. One of the older women in the church (she works at the church also) sent out an email to the women of the church about the problem. It was not taken well by everyone. But, who wants to be called on their sin? We don't always take it well.

[Shelly in IL]

Actually, the way he says it, I find it to be hilarious. Of course we have a really funny priest who is known for being assertive.

[Hoggirl]

Actually, the way he says it, I find it to be hilarious. Of course we have a really funny priest who is known for being assertive.

 

I am curious about specifics!

[Ferdie]

I would let their parents deal with it. Different rules for different families.

 

Be thankful they are in church.

[Barb_]

Honestly, I see it as a much more pervasive problem, and I don't even go to church anymore. A mom in jeans and a t-shirt or a dad dressed in the same clothes he wears to clean out the garage are just as much part of the problem. Boys in dirty sneakers chewing gum are part of the problem. Church attendance used to be a dressed-up occasion across the board. There was a sense of respect and decorum and awe. If a more casual come as you are type of service is desired at a church, I suppose short-shorts on teenaged girls should be expected. Everyone attends wearing what they would on the weekend around the neighborhood. You can't really pick on one segment without addressing the whole shebang.

 

Barb

[Embassy]

I would ignore it. Having them at church is far more important than having them dressed appropriately.

[OLG]

I would ignore it. Having them at church is far more important than having them dressed appropriately.

 

This was exactly the response of our priest! Part of me still wishes there was some way to return to more reverence in dressing in Church but I "get" the fact that it is better to have them there. Once in a great while a priest will mention the need to dress appropriately but that's always a matter of individual judgment....

[Guest janainaz]

When I first attended church many years ago, I was the girl you are describing. I was a nice person, but I was young, naive, and clueless as to how I was offending others as a result of my attire. I did not see anything wrong at all with how I was dressed.

 

Some people are just not there yet. Clearly, these young ladies do not have a mother who is guiding them in the direction of appropriate clothing choices. Any mother with her head on straight would tell her daughter to cover up. Not all girls have this healthy influence. It's a delicate subject.

 

Do you think the church is going to pass a dress-code? I doubt it. Addressing the issue on a personal level is sure to offend. If you're going to be a mother to the motherless, certain things have to be overlooked so that you can see the real person.

[michelle l]

This morning at church (Methodist, if it matters) I noticed more than one piece of clothing on our young ladies (youth - grade 7 - 12) that I felt was inappropriate. Really short shorts, spaghetti strap tops, etc. I am NOT an ultraconservative person in how I dress, and I enjoy fun clothes as much as the next person. But, there are things that I might where on an out-of-town vacation with my husband that I would never where "locally." And, I certainly wouldn't wear them to church. To me, it is about what is "appropriate" and having a sense of "decorum."

 

Yeah, this can be a problem. I'll be honest, I go to church with a lot of people who would make you (and me;)) uncomfortable, so I am familiar with that tension of wondering what to do when people don't fit the "mold". It's a tricky issue, because really, that transformation, that desire to dress in a modest way that won't cause men to struggle or be distracting to others is really a work of the Holy Spirit, as is any genuine transformation. I mean, following church rules and guidelines is one thing, but really desiring that behavior in your own heart is different. KNIM?

 

However, older women are supposed to teach the younger women, right? But I'm thinking this happens within already existing relationship, rather than simply approaching a girl and saying she's dressing inappropriately. I guess you could approach a youth leader, but my guess is they would be more receptive if you are already involved as a volunteer rather than someone just offering an outside opinion.

 

I think really, it gets down to this: why does it bother you so much? (I'm not saying your wrong, btw, just asking why.) Dig into that. Is it because it could potentially distract men/teen boys? That's valid. Is it because it's just not what's "done"? Sorry, I'm having a hard time wording this the way I want to. :blushing: I guess, are you bothered by the lack of "decorum"? Why? Is it something deeper, and if so, what? Are these girls really sold out for Jesus? What would that look like to you? I know some tank top wearing young girls who blow me away with their love for their savior; I mean on fire in a way that really humbles me.

 

It almost..........it's almost that whole meat thing. All food is good. It's not what goes into the mouth, but what comes out of it that's sinful, right? But if my brother in Christ thinks it's wrong to eat meat, even though I know all food is clean, I need to just let it be and not press that issue. And I'd sure better not invite him over to grill some steak! (yes, I realize that part is totally not about being a vegetarian -- I'm super-paraphrasing) So really, these are just arms and legs. Can I honor God with a heart that loves him when I'm wearing shorts? Or do I only honor him when I wear a skirt? In tank top? No? Well, what about a sleeveless sweater, because some of those a very classy. Well, maybe not, but then capped sleeves. Those would be fine. Well, what about at home? It's almost silly. But, if the people I go to church with would be offended by something then I shouldn't wear it. I might think it's fine and have freedom about it, but their worship and peace of mind shold be more important to me than the freedom I believe I have to worship as I am. (All that said, there are most certainly girls who wear things to church and elsewhere that I would not let my dd wear period. :001_huh:)

 

Honestly, I see it as a much more pervasive problem, and I don't even go to church anymore. A mom in jeans and a t-shirt or a dad dressed in the same clothes he wears to clean out the garage are just as much part of the problem. Boys in dirty sneakers chewing gum are part of the problem. Church attendance used to be a dressed-up occasion across the board. There was a sense of respect and decorum and awe. If a more casual come as you are type of service is desired at a church, I suppose short-shorts on teenaged girls should be expected. Everyone attends wearing what they would on the weekend around the neighborhood. You can't really pick on one segment without addressing the whole shebang.

 

Well, again, I go to church with folks who don't even have a garage to clean out. They are dirty. Sometimes they smell. Is it distracting? Um...yes, it can be. :blushing: But I serve a God who longs for them to come to him; who literally died to draw them to himself. And if showing them the love of God means dressing in jeans and creating an environment where they can hear truth (again, the message is not necessarily "seeker friendly") and be welcomed without having to be changed first, then I'm all in. Jeans and flip flops? You bet. In fact I sang like that this morning (short capri jeans cuffed below the knee even).

 

I cannot tell you enough how this has both challenged me and ministered to me. I very much support anyone who wants to dress up for church and think that can be a very authentic and lovely thing. Furthermore, if I were visiting a more traditional church I would most certainly do the same out of respect for them.

 

But ya know, there's something really beautiful about boys in dirty sneakers encountering God. There is something that ministers deeply to my soul when they pray for a sick friend with the utmost sincerity of of heart while snapping their gum.:)

Edited May 2, 2010 by michelle l

[Liz CA]

I am curious about specifics!

 

Also waiting for this answer. :001_smile: Perhaps it would make people think more about their attire if it was pointed out from the pulpit. I can't imagine this would happen in our church though.

[Liz CA]

Very good point(s).

Once a girl feels comfortable and loved in the church community she will often come to the conclusion herself that some of her wardrobe needs reconsidering.

Leading by example is still a powerful way of leading.

I remember that wearing (long!) pants was an issue for girls when I grew up.

[AuntieM]

Michele l, what a lovely post. Thank you.

[Guest janainaz]

I agree, Michelle l, that was beautifully written.

[asta]

If you're going to be a mother to the motherless, certain things have to be overlooked so that you can see the real person.

 

Yes.

 

Mary didn't want to stay back in Jerusalem and "hold down the fort". She wanted to go out with the rest of the guys and change the world. But if she hadn't stayed, there would be no Church.

 

As michelle notes also, mothering takes many forms, and none of them are bad or unneeded.

 

 

asta

[Barb_]

Well, again, I go to church with folks who don't even have a garage to clean out. They are dirty. Sometimes they smell. Is it distracting? Um...yes, it can be. :blushing: But I serve a God who longs for them to come to him; who literally died to draw them to himself. And if showing them the love of God means dressing in jeans and creating an environment where they can hear truth (again, the message is not necessarily "seeker friendly") and be welcomed without having to be changed first, then I'm all in. Jeans and flip flops? You bet. In fact I sang like that this morning (short capri jeans cuffed below the knee even).

 

No, I get what you're saying Michelle, and I don't disagree. I'm lamenting the general dressing down of our culture. We don't expect to dress neatly for church, to see a play, or to go out to dinner. I'm guilty of dressing down myself, so I'm part of the problem. Yet I wish it were still expected that certain places were worthy of dressing up. My only point was that one is either bothered by the dress of the general population of the church or not. It wasn't fair to single out one segment. I probably obfuscated my point by bringing my own feelings into the discussion.

 

Barb

[KnitWit]

Lovely post Michelle :) I agree

 

And, I get the *reverence* point. I've wrestled with that myself and I go back to it being between *each* person and God *where they're at*. Because, once I start paying attention to what others around me are wearing...well, the *reverence* on *my* part has gone out the window. :)

[Hoggirl]

I have NO issue with casual. Flip-flops, jeans, capris. It's all good. This is at a casual service. My issue is with the amount of skin that is being displayed. I think I am just getting ultra-sensitive to this because my son is twelve, almost thirteen.

 

But, there is no way there is going to be a "dress code" at church. Whoever posted that is absolutely correct. So, I suppose I need to just keep my mouth shut.

 

Now, I DO have a problem with people wearing pajama bottoms to Wal-mart! But, that is in a different category! :D

[Teachin'Mine]

Michele l, what a lovely post. Thank you.

 

:iagree:

 

I attend dressed very casually, but modestly. I'm guilty of judging what some of the women wear as it's less than modest, and they look at what I wear as being wrong. I guess it all comes down to that it's better that we're all there than not.

[Shelly in IL]

"Summer is here, ladies, and it is hard for men (including me) to concentrate on the Gospel and Mass when there is inappropriate clothing on nice looking figures in front of us - it is even harder (for me) to concentrate when there is inappropriate clothing on bad looking figures! Please dress accordingly!

 

Somehow I find that hilarious and not that he is being lewd. Who among us doesn't gasp at inappropriate or tight clothing on the bulging figures (like mine). He also goes on to point out dressing up to the men, so he isn't picking on women.

[Greeny]

I wouldn't say anything because although you may find it inappropriate their parents are clearly alright with it. And you saying something would just come across as legalistic and possibly start an altercation. I know I wouldn't take it well if someone told me they felt my children looked inappropriate.

[Greeny]

 

Now, I DO have a problem with people wearing pajama bottoms to Wal-mart! But, that is in a different category! :D

 

 

Ha ha ha! Yeah, I am with you there!

[justamouse]

I would ignore it. Having them at church is far more important than having them dressed appropriately.

 

Yup.

 

Here's the thing-church attendance #s are *PLUMMETING*. Something like if they keep going down at the averages they are now, almost no one will be going to church in 2050.

[Blessedfamily]

"Summer is here, ladies, and it is hard for men (including me) to concentrate on the Gospel and Mass when there is inappropriate clothing on nice looking figures in front of us - it is even harder (for me) to concentrate when there is inappropriate clothing on bad looking figures! Please dress accordingly!

 

Somehow I find that hilarious and not that he is being lewd. Who among us doesn't gasp at inappropriate or tight clothing on the bulging figures (like mine). He also goes on to point out dressing up to the men, so he isn't picking on women.

 

:lol:

[KnitWit]

"Summer is here, ladies, and it is hard for men (including me) to concentrate on the Gospel and Mass when there is inappropriate clothing on nice looking figures in front of us - it is even harder (for me) to concentrate when there is inappropriate clothing on bad looking figures! Please dress accordingly!

 

Somehow I find that hilarious and not that he is being lewd. Who among us doesn't gasp at inappropriate or tight clothing on the bulging figures (like mine). He also goes on to point out dressing up to the men, so he isn't picking on women.

 

I think that is a great way of getting a good point across!

[ncmom2dawters]

This morning at church (Methodist, if it matters) I noticed more than one piece of clothing on our young ladies (youth - grade 7 - 12) that I felt was inappropriate. Really short shorts, spaghetti strap tops, etc. I am NOT an ultraconservative person in how I dress, and I enjoy fun clothes as much as the next person. But, there are things that I might wear on an out-of-town vacation with my husband that I would never wear "locally." And, I certainly wouldn't wear them to church. To me, it is about what is "appropriate" and having a sense of "decorum."

 

 

What example do you yourself set for any young ladies you come in contact with when you are "out-of-town" if you are wearing something you'd not feel appropriate enough to wear around people you know ("locally")?

[rose_king]

Michele l, what a lovely post. Thank you.

:iagree:

[rose_king]

"Summer is here, ladies, and it is hard for men (including me) to concentrate on the Gospel and Mass when there is inappropriate clothing on nice looking figures in front of us - it is even harder (for me) to concentrate when there is inappropriate clothing on bad looking figures! Please dress accordingly!

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[MeganW]

"Summer is here, ladies, and it is hard for men (including me) to concentrate on the Gospel and Mass when there is inappropriate clothing on nice looking figures in front of us - it is even harder (for me) to concentrate when there is inappropriate clothing on bad looking figures! Please dress accordingly!

 

Somehow I find that hilarious and not that he is being lewd. Who among us doesn't gasp at inappropriate or tight clothing on the bulging figures (like mine). He also goes on to point out dressing up to the men, so he isn't picking on women.

 

I can remember the priest at our old church saying something similar (though he was a VERY buttoned up kinda guy and was SO embarrassed to have to say it):

 

"I would like to ask you to refrain from dressing in a way that may distract others from the service." He somehow commented about not having cleavage showing, skirts being long enough even when sitting down not to show anything, etc.

[Hoggirl]

What example do you yourself set for any young ladies you come in contact with when you are "out-of-town" if you are wearing something you'd not feel appropriate enough to wear around people you know ("locally")?

 

At a restaurant that runs about $200+ per person.

[Blessedfamily]

I remember a female chaplain at a military chapel my family attended, preaching in a min-skirt and black fishnet stockings. Seriously. This was in the late eighties, and some people were quite "surprised".

 

I was a teen, and normally sat with two of my male cousins, but they deserted me for the front pew that Sunday. Maybe it was a way to keep people's attention during the sermon, because my two cousins' heads never turned around ONCE. I mean not ONCE.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

We also go to church, but I would NEVER say something about the way someone else may be dressed. It would not be my place to do that. I would just try and ignore it and not worry over it.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I haven't read all the posts, but I probably wouldn't say anything. It's up to those kids parents to teach them what proper attire for church is.

 

That said, at our temple, all the Sunday school classes meet for services with the rabbi after class, and the parents join in. I have heard the rabbi address attire on a few different occasions. He is speaking to the kids, but you know he is really directing the conversation to the parents. He mentions specific items that he considers to be inappropriate, and reminds everyone that this is a house of worship, not a bedroom, fitness club or fashion show. He is very funny when he does it, but with a very serious undertone. It works for a while, then the dress regresses, and he gives his speech again.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Well, again, I go to church with folks who don't even have a garage to clean out. They are dirty. Sometimes they smell. Is it distracting? Um...yes, it can be. :blushing: But I serve a God who longs for them to come to him; who literally died to draw them to himself. And if showing them the love of God means dressing in jeans and creating an environment where they can hear truth (again, the message is not necessarily "seeker friendly") and be welcomed without having to be changed first, then I'm all in. Jeans and flip flops? You bet. In fact I sang like that this morning (short capri jeans cuffed below the knee even).

 

I cannot tell you enough how this has both challenged me and ministered to me. I very much support anyone who wants to dress up for church and think that can be a very authentic and lovely thing. Furthermore, if I were visiting a more traditional church I would most certainly do the same out of respect for them.

 

But ya know, there's something really beautiful about boys in dirty sneakers encountering God. There is something that ministers deeply to my soul when they pray for a sick friend with the utmost sincerity of of heart while snapping their gum.:)

 

I am in agreement and deeply touched as well. :grouphug:

[8circles]

Michele l, what a lovely post. Thank you.

:iagree:

Lovely post Michelle :) I agree

 

And, I get the *reverence* point. I've wrestled with that myself and I go back to it being between *each* person and God *where they're at*. Because, once I start paying attention to what others around me are wearing...well, the *reverence* on *my* part has gone out the window. :)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I'm shocked that this topic is so popular here. I really don't get how people have the time to worry about what other people are wearing.

[Orthodox6]

I'm shocked that this topic is so popular here. I really don't get how people have the time to worry about what other people are wearing.

I am not shocked. There are fundamentally different viewpoints of "what is a church service." Hence the conflicting responses.

 

Many of us belong to Christian faith groups, the church services for whom are worship in the literal sense. Worship of the Living God, Who is literally present among the faithful. Christians of this type are moved by love, awe, respect, and every other positive response to the presence of the divine Christ in their midst. This is not "just some preacher giving a sermon" at our services. We, therefore, regulate our attire, our posture, our behaviour, our inner thoughts, and everything else about ourselves to respond humbly and prayerfully to the King of All, in Whose royal and powerful presence we find ourselves. We are concerned when -- in this religious context as I inadequately have described it -- people demonstrate a disregard for God's holiness through the medium of their clothing choices.

 

You are fully on target, though, if you are unsettled by ugly and cruel attempts to clobber someone over the head about dress code. Nobody is converted to anything via coercion. Loving patience is required.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Orthodox6

[michelle l]

No, I get what you're saying Michelle, and I don't disagree. I'm lamenting the general dressing down of our culture. We don't expect to dress neatly for church, to see a play, or to go out to dinner. I'm guilty of dressing down myself, so I'm part of the problem. Yet I wish it were still expected that certain places were worthy of dressing up. My only point was that one is either bothered by the dress of the general population of the church or not. It wasn't fair to single out one segment. I probably obfuscated my point by bringing my own feelings into the discussion.

 

Barb

 

Oh...I gotcha now! Actually.......I would love to be able to get really dressed up for for a fancy night with dh. I'm thinking something very Audrey Hepburn-esque -- black dress, gloves, pumps, updo...maybe even pearls.:001_wub: You're right that society in general has become much less formal. In some ways I like that, but it would be nice to be able to be really womanly sometimes.

 

* * * * * * *

 

Ok, this is somewhat OT, but I think for my generation (I'm 40) and those close to it, and certainly those younger, we didn't want to grow up to be our parents. I don't know, maybe it came partly from always being with our peer group? I'm not quite sure. I just know we were much more concerned about being "cool" than growing up. I think to a great extent that attitude is still prevelant in us in some form. I mean, my parents have just always seemed so old, even when they were young. DH and I just don't relate to that inner attitude at all. :huh:

 

To bring that full circle, their worship style is authentic for them, but it isn't for us. When I visit their church (a good church:)) and put on my "church self", I feel like I'm playing dress-up. I know God is worthy of my worship, so when I visit there I do try to go in that frame of mind. It's not about organ vs. guitar and drums, hymns vs. David Crowder, or hands in-the-air vs. sitting quietly. It's not about whether or not I have a big emotional reaction. It's about God being worshipped, and that should have more to do with my heart toward him than any external thing. However.....I have to say that for me, there is something about being able to worship as my regular old every day self (I usually do my nicer jeans and a cute top, or a very casual skirt and girly-style t-shirt) helps me feel more free to resond to God through worship. It's the real me, and in my life that's been a good thing.

 

My Catholic neighbor (homeschooling mama also, great gal with a vibrant faith:)) told me about how on Easter everyone dresses up even more, and how she loves the celebratory feel of that. I think that's really lovely too.

Edited May 3, 2010 by michelle l

[kmacnchs]

haven't read all the posts but our youth pastor addressed it regularly in bible studies w/the youth. it is more their responsibility than their parents' when they are in hs. he would do bible studies on modesty, how dating was not biblical (rather, courting), etc.

 

so, if I was in your shoes, I would talk to our youth pastor. the parents obviously don't care or they wouldn't have let them buy the outfits in the first place so probably no luck there...

 

ETA: I am speaking of modesty - I def. do not have any convictions on "dressing up" for church. Our youth pastor's wife would encourage our youth to spend more time on preparing their heart for worship than they do preparing their bodies (dress, makeup, etc.) and I fully agree with that.

Edited May 3, 2010 by kmacnchs

[8circles]

There are fundamentally different viewpoints of "what is a church service." Hence the conflicting responses.

...

 

You are fully on target, though, if you are unsettled by ugly and cruel attempts to clobber someone over the head about dress code. Nobody is converted to anything via coercion. Loving patience is required.

 

I agree with you - I'm also shocked that as Christians we can't see & appreciate that there isn't only one right way to worship Christ. I don't see many threads started to complain about people who dress-up too much for worship but I see a lot of the reverse. I find that shocking. It isn't shocking that many people feel more worshipful in a more formal setting, shocking that some think it's appropriate to then be critical of those who don't.

[Guest ToGMom]

I am not shocked. There are fundamentally different viewpoints of "what is a church service." Hence the conflicting responses.

 

Many of us belong to Christian faith groups, the church services for whom are worship in the literal sense. Worship of the Living God, Who is literally present among the faithful. Christians of this type are moved by love, awe, respect, and every other positive response to the presence of the divine Christ in their midst. This is not "just some preacher giving a sermon" at our services. We, therefore, regulate our attire, our posture, our behaviour, our inner thoughts, and everything else about ourselves to respond humbly and prayerfully to the King of All, in Whose royal and powerful presence we find ourselves. We are concerned when -- in this religious context as I inadequately have described it -- people demonstrate a disregard for God's holiness through the medium of their clothing choices.

 

:iagree:

[asta]

I am not shocked. There are fundamentally different viewpoints of "what is a church service." Hence the conflicting responses.

 

Many of us belong to Christian faith groups, the church services for whom are worship in the literal sense. Worship of the Living God, Who is literally present among the faithful. Christians of this type are moved by love, awe, respect, and every other positive response to the presence of the divine Christ in their midst. This is not "just some preacher giving a sermon" at our services. We, therefore, regulate our attire, our posture, our behaviour, our inner thoughts, and everything else about ourselves to respond humbly and prayerfully to the King of All, in Whose royal and powerful presence we find ourselves. We are concerned when -- in this religious context as I inadequately have described it -- people demonstrate a disregard for God's holiness through the medium of their clothing choices.

 

You are fully on target, though, if you are unsettled by ugly and cruel attempts to clobber someone over the head about dress code. Nobody is converted to anything via coercion. Loving patience is required.

 

I see this issue from a completely opposite point of view.

 

I was sitting listening to a Catholic Bishop yesterday ask a group of teenagers to describe God's love. They offered some pretty good adjectives. Then the Bishop said "how about... immeasurable? Do you think that would cover it?" The teenagers murmured in agreement.

 

I thought about that for a moment when he said it. And after he said it. Pretty much all day long. And when I read this thread, too.

 

Immeasurable.

 

Yet here we humans sit and measure one another. Day after day. We "discuss" (argue/slam/backstab or bite) with one another all manner of behaviors that we find abominable. Quite often in the name of religion. And then justify ourselves with our own version of our own religion.

 

I have my own belief system, who/what I believe made the world. Some days I think s/he weeps immeasurable tears over his or her creation's behavior towards one another.

 

 

asta

[Hoggirl]

I fear I have come across as someone who is concerned about how "dressed-up" someone is for church. Hopefully, this is not the case, and this thread has just migrated toward that issue. I do NOT care if folks are casual in church. I DO, however, think it is inappropriate to come to church, even a casual service, wearing something that shows so much skin that it is a distraction. If it is distracting ME, I can only imagine how distracting it is for the young (and old) men.

 

I love the comment that the preacher used about distracting on good figures and bad.

[Hoggirl]

I am not shocked. There are fundamentally different viewpoints of "what is a church service." Hence the conflicting responses.

 

Many of us belong to Christian faith groups, the church services for whom are worship in the literal sense. Worship of the Living God, Who is literally present among the faithful. Christians of this type are moved by love, awe, respect, and every other positive response to the presence of the divine Christ in their midst. This is not "just some preacher giving a sermon" at our services. We, therefore, regulate our attire, our posture, our behaviour, our inner thoughts, and everything else about ourselves to respond humbly and prayerfully to the King of All, in Whose royal and powerful presence we find ourselves. We are concerned when -- in this religious context as I inadequately have described it -- people demonstrate a disregard for God's holiness through the medium of their clothing choices.

 

You are fully on target, though, if you are unsettled by ugly and cruel attempts to clobber someone over the head about dress code. Nobody is converted to anything via coercion. Loving patience is required.

 

This wording is much better than my lame "inappropriate," and is exactly what I am trying to get to. Thank you.

[Orthodox6]

I feel drawn to add a little more. . . .

 

(1) I had no thought of wealth or poverty of a person, which sometimes is reflected in garments. With knowing disregard for the scrambled (and cliched) metaphors now to follow, fine feathers can disguise a whited sepulchre.

 

(2) Visitors to a church often are traveling through the area, or are seeking something. They likely may know nothing of what are "norms" for the place which they are visiting. Kindness and hospitality are due these strangers.

 

(3) Momoflaw made me smile with her observation that people do not seem to complain about "over-dressing". I have to confess that I feel ill-at-ease whenever I visit a church and see most of the women dressed in lavish, costly apparel. Often this is a church with conspicuous wealth, exhibited in other ways. These are not environments which I could call "home".

 

About a year ago, one of the priests in my own parish went on a jag about wanting all of the men to wear suits, and all of the women to wear their best dresses to church. Frankly, I felt so disgusted by such empty-headed nonsense, that for a month I wore denim and flip-flops on purpose. (I don't usually react so overtly.)

 

At any rate, my drift was that "clean, neat, and respectful" garb are expected within my faith group. "Respectful" is a charged word on this board, so let's not follow a rabbit trail. :)