I went to a Steve & Teri Maxwell workshop last night.

[FlockOfSillies]

That was... interesting.

 

Update: Sorry to leave y'all hanging. We're in the middle of serious decluttering in the kids' rooms and, well, OY!

 

The seminar consisted of two sessions. I took dh and oldest dd. Dh was actually excited to go, because we're always looking for ways to improve our scheduling and the flow of our days. He'd never heard of the Maxwells. I'd heard of them on the boards of course, but didn't know much about them beyond the MOTH stuff.

 

The first session I went to was Teri's talk for the moms about MOTH. Very nuts-and-bolts practical. I was actually encouraged a little, because we already do a lot of what she suggests (our chore chart is just an Excel spreadsheet), and I thought of one or two things I need to add to our routine. It was also nice to hear how human her children were when they were little, iykwim. I thought, "Oh good. Her kids run off and play when they're supposed to be doing chores, just like mine do!" LOL.

 

The second session was held by both Steve and Teri, and was directed toward both parents. Dh said later that much of it was a rehash of the men's session. The Maxwells seem very sincere and caring. Some of the things they promote are things that our family would see as beneficial, because we've seen positive outcomes in other families who make those choices.

 

So here's the "interesting" part. They are very family-centered. I thought of Joanne's recent post on mothering as I sat there and listened. They advocate a level of family togetherness that seems quite insular, to a degree that is unhealthy. They discouraged parents from having outside relationships or hobbies that would take any time away from the family. They spent a lot of time talking about "keeping our children's hearts" by carefully managing their outside influences. It was almost like, "You will keep your children's hearts close to God if you just spend all your time with them and keep them away from bad messages." Steve even held up a bottle of water and put in a drop of something he said was sewage, likening it to a child's heart that is not sheltered from negative influences.

 

Now, I don't know if there's a name for their particular brand of theology, but I think (and dh agrees) that it has several flaws:

 

1.) Unregenerated human hearts are not like pure bottles of water that need to remain sealed to keep out the sewage. They are already full of "sewage" and filth, and they are bent on becoming even more polluted.

 

2.) Human hearts don't stop craving sin unless and until the Spirit of God transforms them and makes them spiritually alive, gradually turning their appetites away from sin and temporal satisfaction, and toward spiritual, eternal joy. A spiritually dead young person, whose heart craves self-gratification and wants nothing to do with God, will only bide his time until he can get out from under his parents' authority and influence and pursue his desires.

 

3.) Once God has claimed one of His sheep, He says that "no one can snatch them out of My hand." A spiritually alive young person, whose heart belongs to Christ and is beginning to follow Him, will not fall away from the faith permanently. I think most parents want their kids to avoid making big, life-altering mistakes as they grow up, and many of us here on the boards would try to keep their kids from "growing up too fast" or whatnot. But trying to shelter them from every conceivable negative influence is impossible. I think it's the kind of mentality that leaves little room for the sovereignty of God and reinforces parental fears. It also means that the only time you have any contact with unbelievers is when you put a tract in their hands.

 

If I followed the Maxwells' advice to the letter, my kids would never visit their grandparents, or be friends with anyone not as well-behaved as they are. And any kids who behave better than mine would have to belong to families who don't follow the Maxwells' advice -- otherwise my kids would be a negative influence for another family. Clear as sewage?

 

4.) Parents need to have time without the kids, both as a couple and as individuals. I don't know how to follow Titus 2 if I don't have any older, spiritually mature Christian women in my life. And many a marriage has failed because the parents focused so much on their kids that they forgot to nurture their relationship with each other.

 

After the seminar, I went to the book table and looked at Managers of Their Schools. Teri Maxwell is a big fan of textbooks. I skimmed a few testimonials in the book from her grown kids about the beauty of textbooks. Meh. I'm OK with the textbooks we're using, but I didn't feel like plunking down money to read about how they're supposedly the answer to all of my problems.

 

The seminar was held at a nearby church where I know quite a few families, and I got to catch up with several of the moms. That alone was worth the trip down there. Plus dh, dd and I got to have a quick dinner together before the event. Three of us going anywhere is a rarity. Two, five, six, seven happen a lot. Not three.

 

I haven't read the discussion you've been having in my absence, so I'll read those responses now.

 

Update 2: One of the reasons I wanted to go to the seminar was that Facebook has been somewhat depressing for me. HUH??? I found a lot of old church friends on FB and I've also added their now-adult children to my friends list. It's been depressing to see so few "Christian" families in our lives whose grown children are believers. So many of them are just living for the moment, for themselves. And plenty of them were homeschooled! Over the past year dh and I have been talking a lot about this, and asking ourselves what we can do to avoid that outcome. When we have the opportunity, we ask older parents what they think they did right and wrong as they raised their kids. So a workshop on "Keeping Your Child's Heart" sounded like it might have some worthwhile information.

Edited January 24, 2010 by FlockOfSillies
Update

[Carol in Cal.]

??????????????

[ladydusk]

I went to one before. Yeah. Interesting.

 

I do like some of their resources, though.

[Strawberry Queen]

So what did you think of it? I've read some of their books which have been helpful but I don't take things to the logical extreme like they do.(imho) Are they nice to talk to? Do they come across as friendly and down-to-earth people or not?

 

I'm just curious. I have no ill will towards them. They are dong what they think God wants them to do and who am I to judge them. That's up to God.:)

[Renee in NC]

The Titus2.com MOMSBoard was the first forum I ever belonged to. I still have some of the great friends I made through there. Having said that, I think that their views and recommendations are very extreme, even for conservative Christians. I should say their views now, because they were not as extreme in the past.

[Pink Fairy]

They spoke at a homeschooling conference I attended a few years ago. I like their scheduling materials and ideas, and the talks I heard them give weren't memorably outrageous--although I was afraid they would be. I used to frequent their forums (Titus2) around ten years ago, but they are very Pearl-minded, and I read some really disturbing stuff on the boards. I quit going there, and it was only by coincidence that I saw them at the conference.

 

What did they say that was....interesting?

[angela in ohio]

I'm conservative. Really. Really. Conservative.

 

But....

 

They seem to live in such fear. I am not into our dc being salt and light before they are ready (sending them to public school, for example.) But I think that if we never interact with others, we miss many opportunities.

 

They do seem to have become more extreme to me (I have seen them several different times over the past six years or so.) Maybe I've just mellowed. :001_smile:

 

Teri's talks were a part of my ability, only by the grace of God, to achieve victory over anger and frustration with my children early in our homeschooling career. I will always be grateful for that.

[dangermom]

Well, I'm curious. I have MOTC but that's all, so I haven't read anything else.

[kdeno]

:iagree:

[Renee in NC]

:iagree:

 

Well, I am not the OP, but the gist of their views is that your dc should have no contact with anyone outside of the home to protect them from outside influence.

[Debbie in OR]

I went through Teri's Homeschooling with a Meek and Quiet Spirit awhile back and it was helpful in many ways. So when they came to our town to speak, I dragged everyone: dh, dc, friends, friends' dhs, friends' dc...

 

I'm really quite puzzled by them. I mean, their whole family seems to adore each other and the kids seem to adore the dad and mom. But it's almost "Stepford Wife-ish". And there does seem to be all this underlying fear but it's presented as virtuous...fear of the tv, fear of sports where girls can't wear dresses (that went over well with my dd who can play soccer, volleyball and ski better than most boys...and hates dresses), fear of anything that interferes with family. I'm very conservative as well and I guard our family like a mama bear, but it was just so....surreal maybe? But the puzzling part is that I found myself almost envious of how the kids seem like they missed all the angst of siblingness (is that even a word?), how everyone seems to truly enjoy each other and their life. Either it's a colossal hoodwink, or they are doing something good there.

 

It was just so very puzzling.

[kdeno]

Keeping their Hearts a long time ago. I pulled my gang out of Sunday School ect. then my DH went in the hospital. I put them back in and we are happily at a co-op now. "I think the Maxwell's has a very different family than mine and what might work for them might not work for mine. That being said I am a Maxwell groupie :001_smile:

[GaHadley]

I went to a conference of theirs in the fall. I agree - interesting.

 

I really was encouraged by much of what she had to say, and definitely needed the encouragement on meek and quiet spirit and scheduling.

 

He, on the other hand, really rubbed me the wrong way. He gave his convictions (no tv, no youth group, etc) off as biblical truth. I would consider myself to be on the conservative side, but lots of stuff he was saying is just stuff that THEY were convicted of and works for THEM. Yet, he was saying (IMO) that we should all dump the tv and get our kids off the sports field or else we were ruining them.

 

I'm all for sheltering. I like homeschooling because I get to have a little closer pick of their influences, but they have to live in the world at some point, and I'm more of the camp of doing that like you would do seeds in a greenhouse - start them off nice and safe, warm and protected. . . then put them out in the shade for a few days, bringing them back in at night - never exposing them to harsh weather. . . slowly you let them weather the elements on their own before you finally plant them to be on their own with much less of your care.

 

Their children were all very happy. A couple of the girls came up and spoke to me during a break, and they had wonderful people skills.

 

I took what I thought was good, and left the rest. . . luckily I was prepared by some other people that he had very strong opinions, and I was prayed up for discernment :)

[Tree House Academy]

I can't jive with what they believe. I find all of the stuff I have used by them to be really extreme. I dubbed MOTH as the "micromanagement of my life schedule." I adapted it and used some of the great ideas, but most of it, I dropped.

 

I didn't realize they were for kids being isolated like that. Wow. I don't agree with that at.all. I can see leaving TV behind. I can't see taking the kids out of Bible study. What in the world?

[Renee in NC]

I can't jive with what they believe. I find all of the stuff I have used by them to be really extreme. I dubbed MOTH as the "micromanagement of my life schedule." I adapted it and used some of the great ideas, but most of it, I dropped.

 

I didn't realize they were for kids being isolated like that. Wow. I don't agree with that at.all. I can see leaving TV behind. I can't see taking the kids out of Bible study. What in the world?

 

They started there own church in the past - in a nursing home. They have no regular interaction with other people. I don't doubt they have great people skills as they are around people alot, but they aren't allowed any friends outside of their family. They also recommended in the past that wives didn't need friends outside of their families, either.

[Heather in WI]

Yeah. We believe in preparing our sons to be able to be the heads of single income families someday, but when we read Preparing Sons to Provide for a Single-Income Family by Steven Maxwell ... let's just say we don't think about it the same way they do. It's been awhile, but I don't even know if I made it through the book all the way. He was very adamant about children not playing sports. :confused::confused::confused:

[happyhomemaker25]

 

I didn't realize they were for kids being isolated like that. Wow. I don't agree with that at.all. I can see leaving TV behind. I can't see taking the kids out of Bible study. What in the world?

 

Well, in defense a little bit, some parents are coming to the place where they don't send their kids off to color,play games, listen to watered down Bible stories anymore.

Our kids are always in church with us. We don't utilize SS or youth group. It's just not the direction our family is led. One of the reasons my oldest is not in youth group is because honestly she could not relate to the other middleschoolers there. Her life is completly different from theirs.

The pressures those kids deal with everyday is enough to make an adult cry. These are 12,13,14 year old kids.

We use homeschooling as a sort of shelter.

This is not to say we isolate our family. My kids talk with the other kids at church and with the adults. They are always helping set up and break down and they are active on our children's worship team that happens before church and is geared towards the family.

We hang out with other families.

We just don't do the whole social Sunday school, youth group thing.

[GaHadley]

I believe any one of their convictions could be convictions other families have. DH and I have talked about if our church's youth group stays like it is, then we will probably not let our kids be part of it. . .

 

I will let my children do organized sports if they are interested and the influences aren't bad (Steve Maxwell even made fun of Upward type sports programs which I thought was ridiculous).

 

I think he (especially) was just far to self-righteous in his convictions.

[lionfamily1999]

Yeah. We believe in preparing our sons to be able to be the heads of single income families someday, but when we read Preparing Sons to Provide for a Single-Income Family by Steven Maxwell ... let's just say we don't think about it the same way they do. It's been awhile, but I don't even know if I made it through the book all the way. He was very adamant about children not playing sports. :confused::confused::confused:

I would not have said adamant. It seemed pretty clear, to me, that he felt that sports took up too much of his son's time. The description he gave, playing Sundays &tc., made sense to me.

 

The reasoning he had (what is the real world use of it, what are you raising them up to with it) made sense to me. I really liked the book, found it thought provoking and useful (not to mention a bit of a relief as we don't have tv and the dcs don't play sports anyway).

[Heather in WI]

I would not have said adamant. It seemed pretty clear, to me, that he felt that sports took up too much of his son's time. The description he gave, playing Sundays &tc., made sense to me.

 

The reasoning he had (what is the real world use of it, what are you raising them up to with it) made sense to me. I really liked the book, found it thought provoking and useful (not to mention a bit of a relief as we don't have tv and the dcs don't play sports anyway).

 

It's been years since I read it, so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

 

We're Sabbatarians and don't allow the children to play sports on Sundays. But, that said, my boys are big into sports -- swimming, soccer, baseball, track, and tennis. :D

[lionfamily1999]

It's been years since I read it, so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

 

We're Sabbatarians and don't allow the children to play sports on Sundays. But, that said, my boys are big into sports -- swimming, soccer, baseball, track, and tennis. :D

He based it on his son's little league. He saw that sports (ll) was sucking up too much time and then starting questioning whether or not it was "useful" or just another thing that would suck up their time as adults without anything Godly/worthwhile to show for it. I saw his point and he was (imo) pretty... well... he left it up to the individual's discretion. He made his case and moved on, iykwIm. He did seem supportive of individual sports that could be continued through adulthood for good health.

[Liz CA]

No kidding. ...And at what point in their opinion should children realize that they are not the only people on the planet and that they will likely need to communicate and interact with other humanoids?

Does this mean our dc should never apply for a job at a non-Christian place. I have heard that concept before. Rather limiting and not biblical IMHO.

[Tree House Academy]

Well, in defense a little bit, some parents are coming to the place where they don't send their kids off to color,play games, listen to watered down Bible stories anymore.

Our kids are always in church with us. We don't utilize SS or youth group. It's just not the direction our family is led. One of the reasons my oldest is not in youth group is because honestly she could not relate to the other middleschoolers there. Her life is completly different from theirs.

The pressures those kids deal with everyday is enough to make an adult cry. These are 12,13,14 year old kids.

We use homeschooling as a sort of shelter.

This is not to say we isolate our family. My kids talk with the other kids at church and with the adults. They are always helping set up and break down and they are active on our children's worship team that happens before church and is geared towards the family.

We hang out with other families.

We just don't do the whole social Sunday school, youth group thing.

 

 

I see your point. My kids are not really big into Bible study...I just sort of used that example. My kids do both play soccer for the Christian Soccer League, though. This is along the same lines, I think. I just can't imagine my kids never being around anyone but each other. Maybe that is because there are only two of them. Perhaps if I had a Duggar sized family, I would be okay. I just think siblings need time apart and time to develop their own, individual interests and friends.

 

And the "wives don't need friends outside the family"...oh goodness. I spent about 4 years that way when I lived in Georgia and dh worked all the time. I had an infant and a 4 year old and I never left the house much. I had no friends. It was terrible. That is probably the most depressed and sad I have ever been. I have to have my girls!

[dangermom]

I need friends outside the family. They keep me sane!! I'm an introvert and all, but I can't do without my friends.

 

Well, thanks for the explanation. Clearly my beliefs are not going to jive with theirs, and that's OK.

 

Hey, what if you don't have 8 kids? What if you only have 2, or 1? Can we have friends then?

[Peek a Boo]

went to a conference of theirs in the fall. I agree - interesting.

 

I really was encouraged by much of what she had to say, and definitely needed the encouragement on meek and quiet spirit and scheduling.

 

yeah. I took a LOT from the "meek and quiet" ideas. cant'cha tell?!!?! :D

 

ok, ok-- I did like her analogy to consider the cop and simply issue tickets/consequences instead of screaming your bloody head off and crying about it. ;)

 

 

 

I took what I thought was good, and left the rest. . . luckily I was prepared by some other people that he had very strong opinions, and I was prayed up for discernment :)

 

:lol:

AMEN!

[Carol in Cal.]

Homeschooling with a Meek and Quiet Spirit

The one he wrote about raising sons

The one she wrote about keeping your child's heart

 

And although I don't always agree with them, I do like the way they think. They question every single assumption about what is 'normal' in society. I think that that is great! They thoughtfully and in a team-ish way considered their options and came to certain conclusions, and then presented the reasons for those. Their whole approach is to consider the end you are seeking and test everything as to whether it supports that goal. I like that!

 

I benefitted from some aspects of the meek and quiet spirit book, personally.

 

There is no book that I agree with 100%, but these were so flat in emotional content that when I disagreed with them they did not get me all riled up the way some would. Also they didn't really present all their conclusions as normative for everyone else, so that whole annoying "God told me that you should do this" thing was not significantly present.

 

I do have some large areas of disagreement with them. The MOTH and MOTC approaches would never work for me. I don't spank. I don't feel the need to be as separatist as they do, and I really question how in the world their children are going to find anyone to marry and so forth. They are, as a whole, a little too earnest and serious sounding in their books. I would never EVER read any of their marriage books--I can just tell, they would not be good for me.

 

However, as a whole, they are not annoying enough not to benefit from gleaning some good stuff from them.

 

They are presenting in Sacramento, about 2 hours from here, tonight and tomorrow. Free. But I did not feel any need to attend, as I have read the books of theirs that interest me already.

[AngelBee]

I love the Maxwells. It was a blessing to go to their conference a couple years ago. :)

[G5052]

I also like some aspects of what the Pearls teach, but I pick-and-choose. I frankly don't think I'd take the time off to see either family in person though, but I've read their publications and have learned things from them. Having maintained a part-time professional career for years and having a more collaborative marriage than they picture would make me pretty miserable if I sat through a workshop.

 

From the Maxwells I learned that a level of orderliness and routine can help you get more done in the long run.

 

From the Pearls I learned that both grace and truth are important in balanced parenting.

 

From both I learned that it's OK to shelter your children appropriately. Our line on that front is different than theirs, but they gave me the courage to say "no" more than I might have otherwise.

 

But I'm going to stick with their publications, not in person.

[laughing lioness]

There are many in the homeschooling community here who follow the Maxwell's teachings and my take-away is this- it's quite judgemental. I've actually heard one of the dad's stating that they are "keeping an eye" on one of the other homeschooling dad's because he was involved in a sport he didn't deem appropriate (fencing or something?). My dh, being a psychologist is, by profession, suspect- worse, deemed unworthy. No matter the fruit of his life and ministry or the standards set forth in Titus.

The song, "they will know we are Christians by our love" seems to point out some of the flaws in this thinking. If there is judgement about everything amongst Christians, how are the lost going to be reached. Seems like isolationism to me.

[Quiver0f10]

The Titus2.com MOMSBoard was the first forum I ever belonged to. I still have some of the great friends I made through there. Having said that, I think that their views and recommendations are very extreme, even for conservative Christians. I should say their views now, because they were not as extreme in the past.

 

I think it was one of the first I joined too. And I agree @ their views. Let me claryify-I mean I agree their views are too strict for our family and I do NOT agree with them.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Quiver0f10

[dangermom]

Dang, if I'd known about the Sacramento thing I would have figured out how to go tonight, if only for the fun of a trip and the interest of doing something new. Now I'm all tied up and can't go.

[cathmom]

I was also on the MOMSboard and have read most of the Maxwells' books. I have seen them in person twice. I do not follow their teachings anymore.

 

Over the years they have developed a cult of the family that is all encompassing. Their children do not have to learn to deal with the world because their standard is that they will not ever leave. Their adult children either live in their home or across the street. Steve appears to have no accountability for his views - ie, no pastor over him. They used to attend a church (this is where their oldest son met his wife), but then they began their own meeting in a nursing home with Steve acting as pastor.

 

The last time I saw them was the fall of 2006. At that time they were advocating no outside friends for children. They claimed that putting your children in school for a year would ruin them and cause you to lose their hearts. They said that peer dependency would cause moms to be unhappy with their position as SAHMs. They completely ignored the fact that when Teri was home with just little children, she suffered from severe depression. Later, she had her oldest dd at home and her mother living next door, and then her dil across the street. They also are completely against moms working, without ever admitting that basically Teri works as an author and speaker.

 

While I think many of their views are extreme and possibly dangerous depending on the situation, I do admire them as people for living out their convictions. And they are genuinely nice people.

[Frontier Mom]

Well, in defense a little bit, some parents are coming to the place where they don't send their kids off to color,play games, listen to watered down Bible stories anymore.

Our kids are always in church with us. We don't utilize SS or youth group. It's just not the direction our family is led. One of the reasons my oldest is not in youth group is because honestly she could not relate to the other middleschoolers there. Her life is completly different from theirs.

The pressures those kids deal with everyday is enough to make an adult cry. These are 12,13,14 year old kids.

We use homeschooling as a sort of shelter.

This is not to say we isolate our family. My kids talk with the other kids at church and with the adults. They are always helping set up and break down and they are active on our children's worship team that happens before church and is geared towards the family.

We hang out with other families.

We just don't do the whole social Sunday school, youth group thing.

 

Well, I have a different slant on the SS and youth group opinion. Ours was mediocre so I now work part time at home as our K-5th Grade Director of Children's Ministries. Personally, instead of just allowing mine to not go because I didn't think it was meaty enough, I started directing it myself. Seems other people want more meat too, they often just don't have someone that sees things "outside the institutional box." I don't run our SS program like a traditional school in many ways and we have some really strong kids being raised in this program. If I wouldn't have taken this step, not only my dc's but others would have missed out as well. It's like I'm teaching how I would want my dc's to be taught and getting paid for it. Also, I really believe most parents want their children to have a meaty experience at SS but just don't know where to start. I also pulled together a whole children's worship every Sunday where we do full drama, music, bible lessons, etc. We have had over 40 children accept the Lord as Savior at this service. My older ds's also help me tremendously in this ministry so they are learning to serve as well. We average about 125 each Sunday in this service. They help in A/V, acting and Wednesday night programs. Instead of avoiding SS and your whole children's church program, why not take a direct role in changing it?

 

Same for youth group for us. We only have two hs families in our church, which averages about 700 per Sunday. My oldest ds has taken a major leadership role and they have chosen many very conservative studies based upon his recommendations. Tomorrow the high school group is beginning the study of the book by Alex and Brett Harris. We have done the Truth Project and very conservative studies because my son is a leader in the group and is the one that now recommends most of our studies.

 

So, not to start anything, but I personally feel home educators can bring revival in our children and youth groups because they don't think nothing can change. They are already doing things beyond the "expected norm", so why not instigate your freedom to learn in new ways and share it with those who just didn't have the same opportunity to home educate that your children have? Also, I feel I am teaching my dc's much more than hide from the outside world. I want to teach them to be the catalyst to launch a revival!!

Edited January 23, 2010 by Frontier Mom

[Rhonda in TX]

I read Managers of Their Schools recently. It really touched me in some ways. She talked of homeschooling moms treating curriculum as an idol. That really hit me and made me think. It's made me look at my true purposes for homeschooling. I've also read MOTH and, while I don't stick to a strict schedule, it has definitely helped.

 

However, there were definitely some things I didn't agree with. They don't let their kids read ANY secular fiction. I think they just read the Bible and some Christian biographies. That just blows me away. Also, they use a lot of A Beka and when they get to the illegal drug use portion of the Health book, they skip it. I get the impression they believe that that will never be something their children will be exposed to, so there's no point in learning it. Or maybe the sordidness of it? I'm not really sure.

[Melissa in St Louis]

I'm not familiar with most of the Maxwell's books, but we LOVE the children's books written by their daughter, Sarah. Very sweet, sweet reading with well-modeled behavior by the parents and siblings in the book. My kiddos BEG me to read them, and I have been guilty of tiptoe-ing into DS's room after he's asleep so I can read them myself! :D My son has gone so far as to asking me if he can please write a letter to the author asking her to hurry up and write more books! :lol: What? You're ASKING to WRITE something?!?! Go for it, Buddy!:thumbup:

[G5052]

Either you choose a very walled-off existence with no outside friends, only Christian books, self-employment, and home church, or you prepare your children to deal with the outside world by openly looking at secular philosophy and history, by thoughtful exposure to others, and by discussing the ugly choices that some people make and the consequences of that.

 

I personally believe that the latter is more scriptural and practical in the long run.

[Impish]

I've never even heard of them until now :o

[happyhomemaker25]

Instead of avoiding SS and your whole children's church program, why not take a direct role in changing it?

 

 

So, not to start anything, but I personally feel home educators can bring revival in our children and youth groups because they don't think nothing can change. They are already doing things beyond the "expected norm", so why not instigate your freedom to learn in new ways and share it with those who just didn't have the same opportunity to home educate that your children have? Also, I feel I am teaching my dc's much more than hide from the outside world. I want to teach them to be the catalyst to launch a revival!!

 

I guess I should have said it's a personal conviction for us as well. We don't really see SS and youth group as being Biblical. Just from our research of the Bible and the topic. :)

I don't think it's a sin or anything it's just not the vision God has given us for our family.

[Mom In Missouri]

All I have to say on the MOTH and following books of the same category is: I own the schedule, the schedule doesn't own me. We have things to accomplish everyday but if something comes up and God allows the interruption along with the skills to incorporate it in...we go for it.

 

I would agree with the careful influence on our children, however it is my job as a parent to manage, redirect, use the situations as opportunities for teaching AND expose each child as necessary. The idea that children should be raised to be salt and light and how that reconciles with not hiding your light under a bowl contradictory...but then, I'm analytical like that. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm the keeper of all things 'home' in our family, and use careful observation to keep a productive and positive atmosphere that I am responsible to uphold. Since we believe that God put our family together not only to teach us how to work together but to work with the exact opposite at times through each other, I can see how their children are an example of that method.

 

But! I do not agree with the isolation factor promoted by and for Mrs. Maxwell or the children, at all.

 

Sunday School and in short order, youth group is an occassional activity when it compliments and supports the direction Mr. Missouri leads our family in. Simply because there is far too much nonsense and twaddle than actual biblical study or application.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Mom In Missouri

[lionfamily1999]

There is no book that I agree with 100%, but these were so flat in emotional content that when I disagreed with them they did not get me all riled up the way some would. Also they didn't really present all their conclusions as normative for everyone else, so that whole annoying "God told me that you should do this" thing was not significantly present.

This is what I thought too. I'm surprised by some of the vehement opposition. They don't seem, imo, to be trying to push anything on anyone else, just letting others know where they stand, what they do, how and why.

[angela in ohio]

This is what I thought too. I'm surprised by some of the vehement opposition. They don't seem, imo, to be trying to push anything on anyone else, just letting others know where they stand, what they do, how and why.

 

I think most of us were responding to listening to their talks, not reading their books. There is a definite difference.

[cin]

Their adult children either live in their home or across the street. Steve appears to have no accountability for his views - ie, no pastor over him. They used to attend a church (this is where their oldest son met his wife), but then they began their own meeting in a nursing home with Steve acting as pastor.

 

They completely ignored the fact that when Teri was home with just little children, she suffered from severe depression. Later, she had her oldest dd at home and her mother living next door, and then her dil across the street. They also are completely against moms working, without ever admitting that basically Teri works as an author and speaker.

 

 

I do remember that she went through a depression phase. I dont' remember how old the kids were at the time. I also wonder...her oldest son met his wife at church. Where are the rest of the kids gonna find their spouses?

 

Teri works, and apparently her dd or dil does too, as an author of children's books.

 

And you know, I think the lack of accountability can be a BIG problem. I'm not sure, but I do beleive another family who started a child-rearing sub-culture ran into trouble when they became really popular, and then thinking they were above accountability.

 

All that said, we are not isolationists, but we are cautious. We do have a TV, but the girls only have access to certain, pre-recorded, TV or DVDs. (Their current fav is Flintstones and Tom & Jerry, played backwards.)

 

And they do wear pants, cuz they are more modest than the freakin' short skirts available in the stores.

[Joanne]

Interesting. I had no idea that their lifestyle advice was so extreme.

 

I had heard that Teri's advice on anger and depression was "good", but I had not read any of the material since I knew I did not agree with the parenting/discipline aspect. From what it sounds like, I would have concerns from a clinical standpoint in terms of depression.

 

I found their original scheduling advice very helpful years ago and would purchase and use it again.

[Blueridge]

Does anyone know if the Maxwells were influenced by the teachings of Bill Gothard? I know many dear families who are living exactly this way. As strong as the family unit appears to be, many times it is ironically fragile if anything upsets the 'perfect' balance. My heart goes out the the moms who have so very much weight upon their dear shoulders. :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I knew them many, many years ago - during the time of her severe depression. I am very glad that she has been able to come out of that.

 

For any Christian author or person with influence, a lot depends on how you approach Scripture, and what parameters you put on application of Scripture. There is a danger in making your own application on the same plane as the Biblical principles you derived it from. This is what happens with things like t.v. watching, sports, wearing of dresses etc. The principles of "filling your mind with good and not evil", of having "right priorities" and of "modesty" are in the Bible. But not everyone is going to apply those principles in exactly the same way to their unique circumstances. I think it would be wise for those reading or learning from other Christians to be aware of that.

[lionfamily1999]

I think most of us were responding to listening to their talks, not reading their books. There is a definite difference.

Ah. It must be very different.

 

<-----doesn't get out much and prefers books anway :p

[Jenny in GA]

I found MOTH to be very helpful. Although I do not follow a truly daily schedule, I use the principles and they have proved to be very helpful for me.

 

I didn't know they had views about youth group, friends, etc. What exactly do they say? What is their logic about not having friends or going to SS??

 

That's kind of funny to hear, in a way ... we;ve all known people who cry, "But aren't homeschooled kids isolated and in need of socializing with other kids?" Well, now it sounds like maybe some are!

[DawnM]

I bought their seminars on CD a few years ago.

 

I sold them as fast as I listened to them.

 

No sports activities. No competition.....

 

No taking a job (for the man) that might require him to have a female "partner" like an EMT. I have no idea what their sons could actually do as most jobs these days have all sorts of co-mingling! :lol:

 

It was just way too over the top for us.

 

Dawn

[Jean in Newcastle]

I found MOTH to be very helpful. Although I do not follow a truly daily schedule, I use the principles and they have proved to be very helpful for me.

 

I didn't know they had views about youth group, friends, etc. What exactly do they say? What is their logic about not having friends or going to SS??

 

That's kind of funny to hear, in a way ... we;ve all known people who cry, "But aren't homeschooled kids isolated and in need of socializing with other kids?" Well, now it sounds like maybe some are!

 

For some reason people (presenters as well as those listening) have an easier time realizing that principles of cleaning or scheduling can be adapted to different situations. And so for that reason many people like and do well with the MOTH materials. Some find it fits them to a T, some use the basic format but configure it to themselves, some find it doesn't work but still respect it as a basic approach.

 

The Maxwell's main principle re. socialization (which I agree with by the way) is that God created the family unit as the main social unit. Children need to respond first and foremost to parents and not peers. So far so good. The problem is when you start to apply it. I think it is true for some groups and some children that when they get really involved in youth groups etc. that they get pulled away from the family. But that should be applied (in my opinion) in a case by case situation. In my family, we have chosen not to pursue the "traditional" youth group situation but instead we get together with a wide mix of people of all ages to learn and to sing. Part of it is opportunity. We know a really neat group of people that we meet with every couple of months in this fashion. Part of it is by design. The traditional youth group that has tried to recruit ds is more oriented to teen mixer type activities than Bible study or praise. That would be fine if that was what we were looking for, but we are not. So we applied this to our family in a way that suits our needs and that of our children the best.

 

If you were to ask me my opinion on the subject of youth groups that is what I would tell you - the principles that we believe in and what works for us, but with the caveat that it was our personal application, not something we would proscribe for everyone else.

[angela in ohio]

They also are completely against moms working, without ever admitting that basically Teri works as an author and speaker.

 

That is not necessarily a contradicton to me. It depends on why you are opposed to mothers working, I suppose. In the work that Terri does, she is still accountable to her husband instead of someone else, the Maxwell's can determine her schedule and how much time it takes away from their family, and she is spending time with Steve and (at least when I have seen her speak) her dc doing it. I think it is very, very different from a job outside the home.