Sputterduck Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I would get far more pleasure from someone in need benefiting through a donation to charity than I would from a sweater or a cd or something. I choose to see the feeling of pleasure and the opportunity to sacrifice (even if the sacrifice is so minimal as giving up a cd) for others as a gift. A gift need not be an object given to me. I feel exactly the same way. I would be thrilled knowing someone got something that would end suffering/change their life instead of me getting a present. There isn't any present you can buy me that would mean more to me than helping someone who is truly suffering and in need. I know that in the scheme of things me getting a cd truly doesn't matter. Someone getting something that will feed their starving children Matters. It matters a heck of a lot, in fact. Not just to the mother receiving the chickens/goat/ cow, but to the children who will survive and to the children they will someday have and so on. I would be *thrilled* if that happened instead of me getting a cd. Even if it was a really great cd. The two just don't compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 So perhaps the whole things boils down to politics. Some charities are politically wrong, therefore don't bother to give in my name.. I see. How utterly sad. I dont think it is politics, I think it is knowing who you are buying for. Why buy a gift/donation at all if you do not even know the persons likes and dislikes. I would not buy a hairbrush for a bald person, that might be offensive. The point is know the person you are giving to. I dont believe Christmas should be give out of obligation. My worst gifts to recieve are money. I think any gift be it Christmas or Birthday should involve some kind of thought , not throw in the air and hope it lands. I would rather get no gift than one, where the giver put no thought into it. Remember it is the thought that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Wow. That's about all I can muster for this thread. Just, Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Because, perhaps, they can't make the connection that some humans see a joy in helping others and would like to share the joy, with no inkling that some think it's impolite or not worthy as a gift?? That some people want a present to hold in their hands, darn it! Yep. I am selfish, shallow, and entitled. Just like I said. You are a much better and more unselfish person than I am. :D Look, no one said they didn't want to end hunger or never give to charity themselves. And if YOU want someone to give you a donation instead of a present, then great. But to me they are two different things. When I give to a charity, I do it for myself and the people who will benefit, without bringing gift-giving into it. That's a different section of my budget--and as I think I said above, not a very large one. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Yep. I am selfish, shallow, and entitled. Just like I said. You are a much better and more unselfish person than I am. :D Look, no one said they didn't want to end hunger or never give to charity themselves. And if YOU want someone to give you a donation instead of a present, then great. But to me they are two different things. When I give to a charity, I do it for myself and the people who will benefit, without bringing gift-giving into it. That's a different section of my budget--and as I think I said above, not a very large one. The end. Yes, count me in the selfish, shallow and entitled camp. It's amazing how no one has noticed how much we have bent over backwards to praise giving to charity. . . I'm done with this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Yep. I am selfish, shallow, and entitled. Just like I said. You are a much better and more unselfish person than I am. :D Yes, count me in the selfish, shallow and entitled camp. It's amazing how no one has noticed how much we have bent over backwards to praise giving to charity. . . I'm done with this thread. I don't believe either of you are selfish or shallow. I was curious about dangermom's assertion that a person donating on behalf of someone as a gift is actually saying, "I gave to charity! It's a present for you! Aren't I a great person? You are shallow for not giving to charity!" because I don't see it the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Logic can clear this up. You can't argue from the particular affirmative to the universal affimative, so saying that because we disagree with giving to charity in this way we must disagree with giving at all is incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Yes, count me in the selfish, shallow and entitled camp. It's amazing how no one has noticed how much we have bent over backwards to praise giving to charity. . . On the other hand, as evidenced by this thread, those of us who give to charity in lieu of gifts do it only so that we can get our own jollies and throw it in everyone's faces how moral and charitable we are. And we might even be so untrustworthy that we didn't even donate in the first place! We're just too cheap to buy gifts! The snark apparently goes both ways. :D Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I love the WTM boards! There's such a diversity of opinion here, and a great way to learn while people respond honestly, whereas in real life people often hold back. Truly, I'm sitting here and trying to see from someone else's point of view--not just this thread, but many threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Because, perhaps, they can't make the connection that some humans see a joy in helping others and would like to share the joy, with no inkling that some think it's impolite or not worthy as a gift?? That some people want a present to hold in their hands, darn it! Yeah. That Is sure charitible of you. :001_huh: Do you always send out cards when you donate money to a charity? I mean if you really think it is a gift to others to do so and you really think you should share your joy at giving, then wouldn't you always want to send out cards or call to tell people what you have given away? I don't expect or even want a gift. Even from my dh or kids. I'm thrilled on the occassion they feel inspired to do so, but there is zero expectation, obligation or pressure to do it. Even if I get them something. Oh and I agree. Just say thanks even if you plan to dump it as soon as I'm out of sight. Don't not say, "oh no, now I have to buy for you. ". NO! You don't. Please don't buy anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) I'm sure that many people don't feel that way. But there have certainly been a lot of statements on this thread implying (or outright stating) that people who don't like charity donations as gifts are really just selfish, entitled, and shallow, and not as unselfish as people who do like them. I really don't think folks are thinking this way -- but if it helps -- I was a former missionary and my hubby later worked for an NGO (Non-Govt Organization -- non profit group/charity). Let's just say we saw a lot of abuse with donations being filtered thru the top tiers of our organizations and very little really being given to the indigenous peoples or missionaries who worked there. Don't get me wrong. I support missions and charity. But I would like folks to realize your $$$ does not always go directly to the group you think. Personally, I avoid giving donations to large nationally known charities due to my experience. I select missionaries I know personally (and have worked with) who are doing incredible work with orphans or people groups (i.e. Palestinian refugee camps). What we do is wire their bank accounts the money directly. Hubby has also been known to travel in person and give them the money in person -- along with serving time (3-4 weeks) in their ministry. Very powerful way to give. HOWEVER... I would never use our giving to take the place of a gift for someone else. I also think you need to be careful with publicly donating time or $$$ if it does not help the giftee. It ends up hurting the individual -- unless they have asked you to give to a charity. Enough said. Edited December 14, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerdad Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I'm curious why you would think that a person making a donation in your name is being as selfish and judgemental as the statement above indicates. Well, for one reason, no one other than dangermom has permission to do anything in my name. It's presumptuous if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coleroo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Do you always send out cards when you donate money to a charity? I mean if you really think it is a gift to others to do so and you really think you should share your joy at giving, then wouldn't you always want to send out cards or call to tell people what you have given away? I don't expect or even want a gift. Even from my dh or kids. I'm thrilled on the occassion they feel inspired to do so, but there is zero expectation, obligation or pressure to do it. Even if I get them something... :iagree: :hurray: :hurray: :iagree: I'm also surprised at how some posters think that because we dislike the giving of a random charitable donation as "gift" that makes us selfish??? I'm not connecting those dots. :001_huh: :001_huh: I think pretty much everyone who's posted against this has explained fully that their reasons are based on a.) gifts should have personal meaning behind them, b.) charitable giving feels awkward when someone tries to take credit for the donation c.) it's actually a NICE gift if there's thought behind it on a personal level and is something you KNOW the person will like. d.) we would not mention this in real life as it's a very private feeling e.) we would still act gracious towards the giver Feelings of dislike towards "donating to a random charity and then offering it up as a christmas gift" does not equal a hidden expectation of a physical present that we *need* to hold in our hand. It also doesn't mean we dislike charitable giving. Shoot, my husband & I sponsor children, give to our church, donate a large amount to the MDA every year, donate used items to local charities instead of selling, pull out cash for the salvation army santas in front of stores....I love helping those less fortunate than I am and am always willing to do so. We don't talk about these charitable things to anyone though. It's just that "random charitable giving" and "gifting to someone you love AT CHRISTMAS" are simply not. remotely. related. A "gift" is something the giver does for a receiver on a personal level to help strengthen a bond between the two - and it should always have thought and meaning behind it. If someone sent me a random physical gift that had no meaning behind it (say, a bag of organic catfood...when I can't stand cats), I would feel the same way. All gifts need to have person meaning behind it - not just some obligatory thing of monetary value thrown at someone on the holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coleroo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) Oh...thought of something else... :confused: Would those in favor of in-lieu-of gifting like it if someone sent a card that JUST told of the charitable giving without the words "in-lieu-of"? In other words, do you feel its appropriate for charitable givers to announce their donations if it's NOT done under the guise of in-lieu-of gifting? Like, if I sent out a card in March to family saying "Guess what guys? I just donated $100 to Planned Parenthood! Hope you have a great spring!". No snark meant...it's something serious I thought of...how do you view the announcement of charitable donations in general? And are you basing your decision to accept in-lieu-of gifts mainly on the premise that you feel that ALL things given as "gifts" should be taken as such and thus appreciated? Edited December 14, 2009 by Coleroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirth Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well, for one reason, no one other than dangermom has permission to do anything in my name. It's presumptuous if nothing else. Yes, I had a question on this a few pages back. Can anyone really make a donation in my name? Like can someone donate to the Democratic National Committee in my name? Then my name would show on the donors list for the world to see. Then what if I am already legitimately contributed $4999 to the DNC and your gift donation in my name sent me over the contribution limit as an individual. I guess I don't really believe you can do anything in any person's name unless you have the power of agency for him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Oh...thought of something else... :confused: Would those in favor of in-lieu-of gifting like it if someone sent a card that JUST told of the charitable giving without the words "in-lieu-of"? In other words, do you feel its appropriate for charitable givers to announce their donations if it's NOT done under the guise of in-lieu-of gifting? Like, if I sent out a card in March to family saying "Guess what guys? I just donated $100 to Planned Parenthood! Hope you have a great spring!". No snark meant...it's something serious I thought of...how do you view the announcement of charitable donations in general? And are you basing your decision to accept in-lieu-of gifts mainly on the premise that you feel that ALL things given as "gifts" should be taken as such and thus appreciated? Why would someone send out a random card to let people know they have donated to a charity? I don't send out cards on Monday to let anyone know I tithed on Sunday. That is pointless. If someone chooses to take the money they would have spent on a sweater, or gift card, or whatever, and donate it to a charity/cause they believe in, that is wonderful!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well, for one reason, no one other than dangermom has permission to do anything in my name. It's presumptuous if nothing else. The statement I was referring to was this: "I gave to charity! It's a present for you! Aren't I a great person? You are shallow for not giving to charity!" My question was why she believes that these are the thoughts of someone who donates in honor of another person. As to your contention with others doing something 'in your name', I don't know for certain, as I've not donated on behalf of others, but isn't the donation 'in honor of' another person? Are donation given by one person but listed as actually being given by another? Can someone who has donated in such a way clarify this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The statement I was referring to was this:"I gave to charity! It's a present for you! Aren't I a great person? You are shallow for not giving to charity!" My question was why she believes that these are the thoughts of someone who donates in honor of another person. As to your contention with others doing something 'in your name', I don't know for certain, as I've not donated on behalf of others, but isn't the donation 'in honor of' another person? Are donation given by one person but listed as actually being given by another? Can someone who has donated in such a way clarify this? There is a difference. We are talking about something being done "in honor of". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Yes, I had a question on this a few pages back. Can anyone really make a donation in my name? Like can someone donate to the Democratic National Committee in my name? Then my name would show on the donors list for the world to see. Then what if I am already legitimately contributed $4999 to the DNC and your gift donation in my name sent me over the contribution limit as an individual. I guess I don't really believe you can do anything in any person's name unless you have the power of agency for him/her. Yes, anyone can make a donation in your name. You purchase it as a gift: I just purchased a gift/donation for my dd for the Defender of Wildlife(this is something she is passionate about). It makes a certificate and asks for her name. She is the donor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Do people seriously not see the difference between these two scenarios??? 1. "I know how concerned you are about the environment (or whatever issue) so I made a donation to __________ <fill in environmental organization> in your name. I love you--Merry Christmas" 2. "There's this great homeless shelter in my hometown--for your Christmas gift I made a donation to them. I love you--Merry Christmas!" Now, I'm not saying #2 is a bad thing to do, but what if you knew nothing about the shelter? What if they took a different approach to helping the homeless than you? You might not care at all, but don't you understand how a reasonable person might not regard that as a gift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Do people seriously not see the difference between these two scenarios??? 1. "I know how concerned you are about the environment (or whatever issue) so I made a donation to __________ <fill in environmental organization> in your name. I love you--Merry Christmas" 2. "There's this great homeless shelter in my hometown--for your Christmas gift I made a donation to them. I love you--Merry Christmas!" Now, I'm not saying #2 is a bad thing to do, but what if you knew nothing about the shelter? What if they took a different approach to helping the homeless than you? You might not care at all, but don't you understand how a reasonable person might not regard that as a gift? I see the difference, and I still do not understand what is offensive about #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 If you're going to support a charity, wonderful! If you're going to tell someone that you supported a charity in their name, at least make sure that its a charity they're supportive of themselves. The worst abuse of this scenario was my Nan's funeral. Nan died of Alzheimer's. She was NOT a church goer, and was vehemently against overseas charities. (She was of a 'take care of those at home' mentality) My mother had in lieu of flowers, donations to her (my mom's) church's pet charity (something to do with children overseas, forget what the actual name is) were preferred. This was, obviously, completely against what my Nan would have wanted. My mother took advantage of Nan dying to get money (and accolades, lets not kid ourselves) for what she wanted. I told my mom I was making a donation to the Alzheimer's association in my area. She was mad because it wasn't going to the charity SHE wanted it to. I figure that Nan would have liked to have her preferences taken into account. It shouldn't be about the 'givers' preferences, but about the recipients. In the case of the funeral, it should be something that represents the person whose passed away, not a chance for someone to do what suits THEM personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosy Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I see the difference, and I still do not understand what is offensive about #2. I don't think of it as being offensive, but neither do I think of it as being a gift. If someone were to take the time to find out what charities were important to me, or at least in line with my interests, that would seem like a gift to me. Personally, I don't care. I don't expect gifts from anyone, it's just not the way my family operates. But if my mom came over on Christmas morning and said, "Remember that theater I volunteer at? I gave them a donation in your name," I would think, "Really? That is a gift for me?" I'd be fine with her not giving me a gift, or giving to a charity on my behalf that has something to do with me or with our relationship. It's just different. Not necessarily bad, just different. I think it probably has a lot to do with the individuals involved too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandra Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I feel exactly the same way. I would be thrilled knowing someone got something that would end suffering/change their life instead of me getting a present. There isn't any present you can buy me that would mean more to me than helping someone who is truly suffering and in need. I know that in the scheme of things me getting a cd truly doesn't matter. Someone getting something that will feed their starving children Matters. It matters a heck of a lot, in fact. Not just to the mother receiving the chickens/goat/ cow, but to the children who will survive and to the children they will someday have and so on. I would be *thrilled* if that happened instead of me getting a cd. Even if it was a really great cd. The two just don't compare. CD or Starving Children....hmmm. Now might the CD be a Mannheim Steamroller or Neil Diamond? Beatles...or Beach Boys? Hmmm...(gosh this is so hard!). Seriously you all can I just clarify my original question? I wanted to know about ETIQUETTE. If you wan to give money to a charity should you ask the person what charity they would like to support? After some thought it seems (to me) that it is a nice touch to ask for a specific name or cause. Just seems like it would make a thoughtful gesture even more so. Just my fabulous opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn in OH Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'd rather get nothing at all than be told this. I'm not against donating to charity, but it's not a gift. It almost strikes me that someone wants to toot their own horn by making sure they tell everyone they know they are donating money to a charity. :glare: I'm ok with not getting a gift. I agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) I see the difference, and I still do not understand what is offensive about #2. Plenty, if the person did that after everyone had done their Christmas shopping and still collected up gifts to them. "Hi, I didn't want to give you a present and gave that money to charity instead, but hey thanks for the new book (that you spent a fair amount of money, time and thought on)!" is pretty rude. "Hi, I feel like giving to charity instead of buying presents next year so don't buy me anything, alright!" is fine (in my opinion.) Rosie Edited December 15, 2009 by Rosie_0801 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Seriously you all can I just clarify my original question? I wanted to know about ETIQUETTE. If you wan to give money to a charity should you ask the person what charity they would like to support? After some thought it seems (to me) that it is a nice touch to ask for a specific name or cause. Just seems like it would make a thoughtful gesture even more so. Just my fabulous opinion of course. I absolutely agree with you. You should have been asked. It would have been very thoughtful if the giver put some thought into a cause that you support. And it seems to me that the gesture, while clumsy, was probably well-meant. Maybe at one time the two of you had a conversation about battered women that she remembered and thought it was a cause you felt strongly about. Maybe she didn't have time or an idea about how to find a suitable charity in your town (as easy as it would be). Maybe she thought "Giving to a charity would be a wonderful gift for my friends and family this year" and gave a substantial sum to one cause rather than thoughtfully parcelling it out to different charities. Unless this is someone who is habitually into one-upmanship or putting others down, I think it's more important that you honor the spirit of the gift even if it wasn't properly done. :) I don't mean that snarkily at all, by the way. More in the sense of it's done and she probably meant well so....oh well. Kind of like if she'd given you a sweater without having any idea what you really wear. No one thinks that's rude. Clueless maybe, but we can't expect everyone to hit the mark every time. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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