Christian's watching Harry Potter and the like....a little help please

[Alison in KY]

First, I'm not looking for an argument. I would love to hear input from those Christians who do not let their kids watch Harry Potter, or other character's from a fantasy world. Please help me understand why you think this is a bad idea. I recently had a church meeting and one of the elder's was discussing how it was good to keep our kids away from Harry Potter and even things like Lilo and STich. I'm trying to dig deep and grasp all of this spiritual warfare and just get the big picture. We have let our kids watch Harry Potter and considered it pure fantasy. I've also watched shows like Desperate Housewives and a really close friend just said I shouldn't be watching sin because it leads to acceptance of that sin, etc.

 

Again, I do not want a fight, I just want to understand EVERYTHING that I might be missing. I'm been feeling lately like I need to make some changes in our house, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something just doesn't feel right and I'm thinking our TV viewing has something to do with it :confused:

 

Thank you,

 

Alison

[mrsrevmeg]

I completely understand what you are saying. We have recently begun to revamp our standards of what is acceptable and what is not. (and by most people's definitions, we were already strict) We still do some fantasy (think Narnia and Eragon) but not others (HP and Twilight). One rule at our house is if it scares my youngest child we don't watch it. That knocks out Harry Potter (and Lord of the Rings). The second rule is does it glorify things that God disapproves? Narnia has a witch. She is portrayed as "bad". She is not the hero of the story. In the Twilight stories the vampire is seen as "good", Harry Potter is portrayed as the "hero", many TV show characters who are the stars of the show are promiscuous, vain, and just plain mean. So we choose to stay away from those shows. It is the same with kids' shows. Most of them have bullying, name calling and the like. The characters are rude. They are not the kind of kids I would want in my house. For some reason there are a lot of shows that portray the main characters cross dressing, usually boys, for an episode or two.

[SquirrellyMama]

I can't help with HP because my kids are still too young for it but we have read and watched other fantasy.

 

I do agree with your friend about Desperate Housewives and other shows like that. I love "Two and Half Men" but don't watch it because it is pure sin and sex. There is no reason to watch it and I agree that is makes sin seem more acceptable. I also love Austin Powers movies but have to resist the urge to get them. I do mess up and watch sometimes.

[lmrich]

I was just discussing this with a friend the other night. I let my kids watch HP - after they have the read the book and after we have discussed it. I am a Christian. I have no fear that watching a two hour movie will shake their faith. I could see if your child has a super active imagination and thinks it could be real etc. that you would be nervous.

 

Here is what I don't get - people who are anti HP but let their kids watch Star Wars, play Star Wars, have Star Wars bed spreads etc... Why is Star Wars acceptable to people and not HP? Don't tell me it is the witch thing because that is just as make beleive as the force thing. Sorry for the rant.

 

 

I get why people (including me) don't let their kids watch lots of sinful shows. Our kids don't watch tv shows for the most part and only watch a movie on a long car ride or on a Friday night.

 

I am very interested to hear from people who are anti-HP and why - please don't say because it promotes witches and wizards; so does Wizard of Oz; so does Narnia; so do Fairy Tales!

 

I am just curious as is the OP.

[katemary63]

My best friend's husband is a huge Harry Potter fan. He is an elder at our old church - Southern Baptist. Most of the Christians I know don't have a problem with it, though a few do. ( Conservative Christian - Fellowship Bible Church) It is fantacy. Creativity. Imagination. The magic stuff isn't real and we tell out kids that, same as Lord of the Rings and Narnia. We love the fantacy genre.

 

My DD18's ps teacher (years ago) started reading the first Harry Potter book to the class, I think it was 3rd grade. I had heard rumblings about it in the Christian Community so I talked to my DH about it. He said he woud just read the book and find out what all the fuss was about. Haha...he is the biggest Harry Potter fan in our family. He is now reading the series aloud to our DD8. I think they are on book 5. We own all the books, in print and on tape, and all the movies. :001_smile:

 

The Desperate Housewives thing is another story. These are real people being portrayed in real life situations that glorify sin. I wouldn't watch it.

Edited November 21, 2009 by katemary63

[Ginevra]

Well, I am a huge fan of HP and I love the fantasy genre. I wanted to point out something that a lot of people who have not read/watched HP don't understand or realize. The story line of HP is very Christian. It is the most noticeable in the last story, Deathly Hallows. Harry has to sacrifice himself in courage and love to rid the world of Voldemort. Every story in the series is about the triumph of good over evil; courage, sacrifice and love.

 

Any book by John Granger is good on this subject. Check our How Harry Cast His Spell or the Deathly Hallows Lectures.

 

I have always thought it unfair when people sanction Narnia, but ban HP. They are both Christian allegories and they both contain the gamut of mythological creatures and they are both good vs. evil stories. I think the only difference was that Lewis was known as a Christian and Rowling was not.

[lionfamily1999]

Can I add appetites to the mix?

 

I'm changing, we all are, trying to move closer to God's plan for us. One thing recently brought to my attention was how we feed and create appetites in our children. With fantasy, and all the movies that go with it, I think it feeds an appetite for another world. An appetite for a world wherein God is not number one (if he even exists at all), an appetite where consequences are very different (if they even exist at all).

 

Lately, all the kid shows we watch have started striking chords in me, where the wrong lessons are taught. Characters without any character win out, the repercussions of living without God are.... winning.

 

So, I can see where it could be a problem.

[Rene Austen]

I love fantasy, and have read buckets of it. I think one aspect to consider before handing a fantasy novel over to the children is the (for lack of a better word) nobility of the story. Does it glamourize evil? Does it excuse evil actions on the part of the hero because he IS the hero? Does it present the token victory of good over evil, but never show that evil has consequences? A lot of fantasy fails miserably in these areas, especially fantasy movies.

[Daisy]

Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. Eph 5:8-12

 

That's our take on it. If it is shameful to even speak of the evil that men do, then surely it is shameful to sit and watch and laugh at it. The above verses are speaking specifically to s#xual immorality. We do not watch anything like that whether it be innuendo, jokes, or worse.

 

Violence, language, false religions, are all dealt with in context and with a certain about of personal conviction. I'm not going to personally watch a comedy full of foul language, but I might watch a historical movie that has some.

 

We choose our fantasy carefully, mostly for the same reasons we avoid greek mythology at this young age. That said, I don't have a problem with my children watching something that is clearly make-believe.

 

Harry Potter is just entirely too dark, IMO, for my children to see. Whether or not it is "evil," I wouldn't know. I've only read the first four books.

 

We prefer to use Phil. 4:8 as a pretty good guide for what we watch in our home.

[ChristusG]

Honestly, I do not "get" the whole "Narnia is a Christian story" deal. I mean, I understand the parallel story, but why is it Christian if it is not about Jesus/God/etc? I don't know, to me that would be more reason NOT to watch it. They are portraying Aslan (the Lion) as Jesus Christ. Sounds kind of confusing to me, especailly for a child. Maybe even sacrilegious too. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the Chronicles of Narnia, I think it is a good, clean story with good morals. I've watched it and read the books. But I see it as just a story, not a "Christian" story".

 

As for Harry Potter, I'm a fan. And I consider myself a pretty conservative Christian. I see HP as pure fantasy. Would I let my young children/teens watch it or read the books? Definitely not. I just do not feel that it is a story for children, especailly the later books. And if I feel like it *could* shake their faith, then I will steer them away from it. HP doesn't shake my faith in the least....I know that it is fantasy, there's no way I'm believing otherwise. It's imagination to me. As is Disney. We are huge fans of Disney. My kids know that the magic in Snow White, Cinderella, etc is just pretend.

 

Actually, I have much more of a problem with the Twilight series than the HP series. In Twilight, Bella is pretty much worshipping Edward. She raises him up on such a pedestal that it bothers me a lot. And the lust in the book is just too much. No child/teen of mine would ever be reading/watching this series. The magic doesn't bother me, but the "worshipping" and lust does.

 

As for shows like Desperate Housewives, I think we should stay away from those. They are real people in what could be real situations. I do think that it causes us to "tolerate" the sin even more. It downplays the severity of sin. I want my conscience (the Holy Spirit) to continue to tell me right from wrong....I do not want to dull that sense by constantly exposing myself to sinful things on TV.

 

We used to watch Heroes and Mercy, but have recently stopped due to things that I feel are immoral. We are also about to stop watching 90210. I've felt uncomfortable about that one for a while and I need to do something about it. It just centers all around sex....high schoolers having sex at that! If there's a random sin in a movie/show, I can be okay with that and overlook it. But if the series seems to focus solely around sin, then I cannot be okay with that.

 

Sometimes it surprises me with what Christians allow themselves to view/listen to/etc. And I'm not without blame there (above paragraph). But I know Christians who listen to raunchy music about sex and affairs and curse words and stuff like that. I don't think that's the type of things that God wants us to be putting into our minds.

[LittleIzumi]

Isn't Aslan using a form of magic too, or similar power, just for good instead of evil? (It's been a while since I read the books so sorry if I'm wrong--or is it considered okay because he is the world creator and the Christ character there, so he can use power and it's not considered bad?)

 

For me, witchcraft as discussed as evil in the Bible is also discussed as being devil worship. The "magic" in Harry Potter is invented as a natural talent like being able to wiggle your ears, not seeking power from Satan. And it's VERY clear about good versus evil, and sacrifice and love and all those lovely religious themes. My dad was a church leader and a huge Harry Potter fan. I know we'll get to have some very productive discussions with dd about the differences between pretend things like HP and Narnia and Biblical witchcraft.

Edited November 21, 2009 by LittleIzumi

[tmkclscroggins]

We are Christians and have let our kids read and watch Harry Potter. To us, it is pure fantasy. There's nothing real about it. It's like a modern fairy tale. Our kids understand that as well. As for Desperate Housewives, it portrays real people. It could happen.

 

 

melissa

[LittleIzumi]

Oh, I'd also pray about it if you're really worried. I prayed about it after some concerns like this, and felt very strongly that as long as I keep HP in a make-believe, casual wholesome enjoyment place that focuses on the love lessons and such, and keep my real learning focused on God and the scriptures, that it is quite fine.

[lionfamily1999]

Honestly, I do not "get" the whole "Narnia is a Christian story" deal. I mean, I understand the parallel story, but why is it Christian if it is not about Jesus/God/etc? I don't know, to me that would be more reason NOT to watch it. They are portraying Aslan (the Lion) as Jesus Christ. Sounds kind of confusing to me, especailly for a child. Maybe even sacrilegious too. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the Chronicles of Narnia, I think it is a good, clean story with good morals. I've watched it and read the books. But I see it as just a story, not a "Christian" story".

"Roar" explains it very well. It's only a dollar at Christianbooks.com, unless they recently raised the price.

 

We've gone through the first two books and there are lessons in those books that clarify, imo, very difficult ideas found in the New Testament.

 

Of course, you don't HAVE to use it that way, but it can be a very effective tool in teaching dcs about Christ. With "Roar" you even end up with a good Bible study :p

[WishboneDawn]

First, I'm not looking for an argument. I would love to hear input from those Christians who do not let their kids watch Harry Potter, or other character's from a fantasy world. Please help me understand why you think this is a bad idea. I recently had a church meeting and one of the elder's was discussing how it was good to keep our kids away from Harry Potter and even things like Lilo and STich.

 

I know some people stay away from some of this stuff because of principles and convictions but my feeling when one person is telling others to stay away with no reasoning as to why is that it's a control issue.

 

Just for interest's sake there are some excellent books by a guy named John Granger on some of the Christian symbolism in Harry Potter. Especially Looking for God in Harry Potter and Unlocking Harry Potter.

[LittleIzumi]

I know some people stay away from some of this stuff because of principles and convictions but my feeling when one person is telling others to stay away with no reasoning as to why is that it's a control issue.

 

Just for interest's sake there are some excellent books by a guy named John Granger on some of the Christian symbolism in Harry Potter. Especially Looking for God in Harry Potter and Unlocking Harry Potter.

 

And don't forget, the Vatican approves Harry Potter now :lol:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/13/vatican-harry-potter-film_n_230868.html

[WishboneDawn]

Well, I am a huge fan of HP and I love the fantasy genre. I wanted to point out something that a lot of people who have not read/watched HP don't understand or realize. The story line of HP is very Christian. It is the most noticeable in the last story, Deathly Hallows. Harry has to sacrifice himself in courage and love to rid the world of Voldemort. Every story in the series is about the triumph of good over evil; courage, sacrifice and love.

 

 

And it's not just Harry. In fact, I find a more powerful theme of self-sacrifice and the redemptive power of love in Snape's story then Harry's.

 

I think calling HP a Christian allegory would be to much but if someone is looking for Christian themes and symbols, as well as lots of Classical references, it had lots to offer.

[Word Nerd]

 

Here is what I don't get - people who are anti HP but let their kids watch Star Wars, play Star Wars, have Star Wars bed spreads etc... Why is Star Wars acceptable to people and not HP? Don't tell me it is the witch thing because that is just as make beleive as the force thing. Sorry for the rant.

 

 

I completely agree about the double standard for Star Wars. I can only assume that Star Wars is acceptable because in those movies, magic is called The Force and wizards are called Jedis. Jedis can use their inborn powers for good or evil, just as wizards in Rowling's world can. (In the Harry Potter series, you are either born a wizard or witch or you're not. It's not a race per se, but it also isn't something you can just decide to be.) There are actually quite a few similarities between both fantasies, and the overall plot of good versus evil is the same.

Edited November 21, 2009 by WordGirl

[Dayle in Guatemala]

We do not watch HP or Twilight. Part of the reason is my dc kind of missed the whole HP craze and we were completely unaware of Twilight (I think because of living where we do--we don't get exposed to much from the US).

 

The other part of the reason is that, to dh and myself, we have no problem with Narnia and LOTR is because the authors had a Christian worldview. That makes a difference for us. I read some of the HP books (I don't like to just say no to my dc, I want a reason) and thought they were incredibly well-written--she's super talented--but, there seemed to be blurred lines between right and wrong and at the time, my dc were a lot younger and I felt maybe there was just too much gray for them.

 

In Narnia and LOTR (which we didn't let them watch until they were a little older) there is a distinction between good and evil and right and wrong. We just felt that at the time our dc were too young to blur those lines.

 

You said that part of the reason for this question is because you feel that maybe what your watching may need to change. I would encourage you to do that. Limit what you watch--content and time-wise. It's fun for us to play games with our dc and watching movies that are just a lot of fun.

 

Something to think about that helps us with movies iswww.clearplay.com. It's been a blessing!

 

Blessings to you.

[Crimson Wife]

Isn't Aslan using a form of magic too, or similar power, just for good instead of evil? (It's been a while since I read the books so sorry if I'm wrong--or is it considered okay because he is the world creator and the Christ character there, so he can use power and it's not considered bad?)

 

One reason I've heard given for why the magic in Narnia is less problematic than the magic in HP is that the former is more clearly a fairy tale. It takes place in a completely different land, there are talking animals, etc. HP has people using the magic, it's set in modern-day England, etc.

[ereks mom]

...we have no problem with Narnia and LOTR is because the authors had a Christian worldview...

 

 

 

That is how I feel too. I've been hesitant to allow Harry Potter though, and my kids have never read the books nor seen the movies. As with many things, I wanted to wait until they were older and firmly grounded in their Christian faith. Now that ER is an adult (age 19) and no longer living at home, it would be up to him whether to read them or not, and I think he might actually enjoy them, since fantasy is one of his favorite literature genres. As for EK (age 15), for some time now, I've been considering doing them as a family read-aloud (EK & dh LOVE for me to read to them!) and discussing them within the context of a Christian worldview.

[BMW]

I waited until my kids were at least 10 and we have had great discussion with it. We did not buy into any craze...

 

My stepson's mom forbid it entirely (she passed away from cancer) when raising her boys. BUT she allowed pokemon, bionicles and all kinds of what I consider junk cartoons that used ALL KINDS of powers and spells!! WHAT? I didn't allow ANY of that for my little ones as I raised them... they had WAY more fun things to do with their time than watch tv (although my boy's mom was sick a lot, so I understand her using tv when she was suffering). I just get stunned when people forbid one and accept the others... I think there was a lot of "Christian" pressure to reject HP and people didn't stop to reject a lot of other #### at the same time or evaluate it all the same...

 

That's just my pov

[Word Nerd]

One reason I've heard given for why the magic in Narnia is less problematic than the magic in HP is that the former is more clearly a fairy tale. It takes place in a completely different land, there are talking animals, etc. HP has people using the magic, it's set in modern-day England, etc.

 

 

I think that argument fails because both stories are clearly fairy tales. The Pevinsies live for parts of the story in what is modern-day England for them and are transported to the magical land of Narnia. It's not much different in Harry Potter. In his world there are trolls, giants, elves, flying animals, satyrs, gnomes, pixies, unicorns, plants that scream and trees that whomp, and on and on. The idea that kids would be confused by the real-life setting in Harry Potter isn't believable to me.

[Lovedtodeath]

Phillipians 4:8 is a verse that I try to apply to our entertainment.

 

"whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are loveable, whatever things are well spoken of, whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is, continue considering these things."

 

Shows that make sin entertaining are not shows that I would feel worthy of considering.

 

We allow some shows that seem magical (like Lilo and Stitch, Snow White) and not others. Basically if the show seems to encourage someone learning magic then it is a no in my house. If it is pure fantasy, then it is allowed. I completely agree that Narnia does not stand out as being different than other magical, fantasy shows.

[Crimson Wife]

I think that argument fails because both stories are clearly fairy tales. The Pevinsies live for parts of the story in what is modern-day England for them and are transported to the magical land of Narnia. It's not much different in Harry Potter. In his world there are trolls, giants, elves, flying animals, satyrs, gnomes, pixies, unicorns, plants that scream and trees that whomp, and on and on. The idea that kids would be confused by the real-life setting in Harry Potter isn't believable to me.

 

I didn't say that I agreed with the argument (we're HP fans in our house), just that I've heard it made. :)

[Word Nerd]

I didn't say that I agreed with the argument (we're HP fans in our house), just that I've heard it made. :)

 

Gotcha.

[Ginevra]

And, just as a side note, but Lilo and Stitch really gets on my nerves. My kids are allowed to watch it, but I can't stand the "mean" girl and her cronies in that show. Why does Lilo kiss her @*! all the time and think she's a friend? It drives me crazy! :glare:

[Laurie4b]

I completely agree about the double standard for Star Wars. I can only assume that Star Wars is acceptable because in those movies, magic is called The Force and wizards are called Jedis. Jedis can use their inborn powers for good or evil, just as wizards in Rowling's world can. (In the Harry Potter series, you are either born a wizard or witch or you're not. It's not a race per se, but it also isn't something you can just decide to be.) There are actually quite a few similarities between both fantasies, and the overall plot of good versus evil is the same.

 

Actually, Star Wars is much closer to real religious belief and practice, imo.

[Word Nerd]

Actually, Star Wars is much closer to real religious belief and practice, imo.

 

I agree, especially in the newer trilogy.

[coralloyd]

I understand the reasons on both sides. However, I will NOT let my dc watch HP or LOTR, because they scare me (and my dh)! I can't even stand the trailers to HP, and when we watched LOTR, we were shocked! I kept thinking the whole way through "When does good triumph?" These are very DARK movies. Their main focus seems to be the evil, with a little good thrown in. When I go to sleep I want a peaceful rest, for myself and my dc. Now I don't know about the books. I haven't made my mind up on them yet. Star Wars, & Narnia just don't scare me in the least. There is my simple reason.

[Lovedtodeath]

I understand the reasons on both sides. However, I will NOT let my dc watch HP or LOTR, because they scare me (and my dh)! I can't even stand the trailers to HP, and when we watched LOTR, we were shocked! I kept thinking the whole way through "When does good triumph?" These are very DARK movies. Their main focus seems to be the evil, with a little good thrown in. When I go to sleep I want a peaceful rest, for myself and my dc. Now I don't know about the books. I haven't made my mind up on them yet. Star Wars, & Narnia just don't scare me in the least. There is my simple reason.

:iagree:Harry Potter and LOTR are scary with a lot of evil.

 

Though Star Wars #3 is bad. DD will not be watching that one for a long time. A jedi kills children, husband nearly kills his wife, is burnt nearly to death and must live on machines and evil for the rest of his life.

[Devotional Soul]

:iagree: Plus the skull faced mechanical guy in Star Wars 3 was very disturbing as well.

 

I'm pretty hard core against evil impressions on my mind after some spiritual realizations, and I used to love Star Wars. Spiderman and Darth Maul look like Satan to me now, lol.

 

Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels, but so is most of what is directed at our kids these days. Once you have an eye for it, you can see how Mystery Babylon The Great is infiltrating everything these days.

 

I'm pretty extreme. The only videos my kids get to see are nature videos. Imagination is encouraged through play and stories.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Devotional Soul

[Word Nerd]

Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels, but so is most of what is directed at our kids these days. Once you have an eye for it, you can see how Mystery Babylon The Great is infiltrating everything these days.

 

 

:confused:

[LauraGB]

Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels, but so is most of what is directed at our kids these days.

I generally respect a Christian's view on not reading/watching HP. To each thier own when it comes to material they wish to view.

 

That said, I just really have to say something about the above quote. JK Rowling is Presbyterian. Last I checked that makes her a Christian - not a magical being herself with powers to infiltrate the minds of the readers. And the accusation of "sexual subliminal messages" is astounding. She does a wonderful job of depicting teen age crushes and relationships (Harry does grow from 11 years old to 17 in the books). There is nothing questionable about her delivery at all.

[Ginevra]

Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels,

 

Have you been reading The Onion? :confused:

[justamouse]

We watch it and read the books. We watch and read Lord of the Rings, too. I can't find it (drat) but either Tolkien, Chesterton or CS Lewis gave a great reason as to why we should write stories with evil in them-that they were important to read. DARN I wish I could find that quote!

Edited November 22, 2009 by justamouse

[BigMamaBird]

I'm a pretty conservative Christian and have watched all the Harry Potter movies myself. But I'm an adult. Those movies are WAY to intense and dark for little ones, in my opinion. When my kids get older, and I'm talking 15-16 years old, if they are interested in the fantasy genre, like I am, I'll let them watch the HP movies. But there's no way I'd consider it for anyone smaller. They're just too frightening.

[Sunkirst]

With both HP and Narnia, the books and the movies are very different presentations.

 

The HP movies are overly simplified and never cover most of Harry's inner thoughts and mental development. They also focus a bit more on the attractions (and of course in a visual way - The actors are all attractive young people).

 

I just watched Prince Caspian last night and thought it was pretty terrible. The thing that irked me most (beyond the Susan/Caspian thing and the portrayal of the Telmarines as "Evil Spaniards"), was the snarky discord that infiltrated the film.

 

C.S. Lewis created a story in which the main characters pulled together and respected one another - this was the norm of the day. Because of their mutual respect and their unity they defeated Miraz. It really grates on my sensibilities that being snarky and cutting down your friends is such an accepted part of today's culture that this pov wormed its way into Narnia of all things.

[Alison in KY]

What's LOTR?

[TravelingChris]

My daughter is in a writing novels class at co-op. One of the first few weeks she came to me and asked me about Philippians 4:8 and how that influences our reading and what we watch. I said that I focus mostly on the true and that means I read many things that other Christians might not. I am a criminologist by training and obvious that makes me interested in crime. Not in gory details that are inserted unnecessarily and I stay away from those kinds of books and shows. However, acknowledging that there is evil and we need to work to overcome it also important. So I read mysteries as long as they aren't pro-criminal. That doesn't mean they can't be from the criminal's point of view since if it is seen as evil and not praiseworthy that can be okay. I also don't have to view only happy movies since our fallen world is definitely not a continuously happy place. But they all need to be true to what I see as God's truth and that includes that all people sin.

 

HP, LOR, and Narnia books are all okay in my house since they uphold the basic truth that there is a struggle between good and evil. My kids have seen Star Wars movies but I would have quickly put a stop to it if they became obsessed with them the way I have sometimes seen some kids do. Nobody here likes Twilight and so no one reads it.

[Ginevra]

 

What's LOTR?

 

Lord of the Rings

[Devotional Soul]

I generally respect a Christian's view on not reading/watching HP. To each thier own when it comes to material they wish to view.

 

That said, I just really have to say something about the above quote. JK Rowling is Presbyterian. Last I checked that makes her a Christian - not a magical being herself with powers to infiltrate the minds of the readers. And the accusation of "sexual subliminal messages" is astounding. She does a wonderful job of depicting teen age crushes and relationships (Harry does grow from 11 years old to 17 in the books). There is nothing questionable about her delivery at all.

 

I was specifically talking about the movies, not the books. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Subliminal messages work through images and sounds, so through movies, not words in books.

 

I've never heard of or read The Onion.

[Lovedtodeath]

I was specifically talking about the movies, not the books. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Subliminal messages work through images and sounds, so through movies, not words in books.

 

I've never heard of or read The Onion.

Wow. I have never heard anything about subliminal messages being anything more than make believe. I am perplexed now thinking that I have to watch out for this and that it would be impossible.

[WishboneDawn]

I was specifically talking about the movies, not the books. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Subliminal messages work through images and sounds, so through movies, not words in books.

 

I've never heard of or read The Onion.

 

Subliminal messages don't work. It's a great urban myth of the past century, like the idea that somehow bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly. There simply is no real evidence that subliminal messages actually do anything.

 

I also doubt very much there are any in the HP movies. People will find what they look for though and so, just as we'll find faces and figures in clouds, some kind find satanic and sexual "subliminal messages" in movies.

[Tidbits of Learning]

:iagree: Plus the skull faced mechanical guy in Star Wars 3 was very disturbing as well.

 

I'm pretty hard core against evil impressions on my mind after some spiritual realizations, and I used to love Star Wars. Spiderman and Darth Maul look like Satan to me now, lol.

 

Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels, but so is most of what is directed at our kids these days. Once you have an eye for it, you can see how Mystery Babylon The Great is infiltrating everything these days.

 

I'm pretty extreme. The only videos my kids get to see are nature videos. Imagination is encouraged through play and stories.

 

What is Mystery Babylon The Great?

[Lovedtodeath]

That was a good point Jinnah, and well taken by this WTM member. Thank you.:grouphug:

[Mama Bear]

Well, I am a huge fan of HP and I love the fantasy genre. I wanted to point out something that a lot of people who have not read/watched HP don't understand or realize. The story line of HP is very Christian. It is the most noticeable in the last story, Deathly Hallows. Harry has to sacrifice himself in courage and love to rid the world of Voldemort. Every story in the series is about the triumph of good over evil; courage, sacrifice and love.

 

Any book by John Granger is good on this subject. Check our How Harry Cast His Spell or the Deathly Hallows Lectures.

 

I have always thought it unfair when people sanction Narnia, but ban HP. They are both Christian allegories and they both contain the gamut of mythological creatures and they are both good vs. evil stories. I think the only difference was that Lewis was known as a Christian and Rowling was not.

 

I've wondered the same thing about Narnia vs. HP. The children in Narnia use magic to travel in and out of other worlds. I don't have a problem with explaining this to my kids in order to make the bigger point of the story, which is in *our* belief system/paradigm that all things eventually point toward God. Lewis said specifically that his stories weren't allegorical, though others experience them as such. Many non-Christians don't read the Narnia series expecting to see light shed on the glory of God.

 

HP, *for us*, has been incredibly useful in discussing what good and evil truly are. How they're represented in the real world, what we can do about it personally, and how we want to be vigilant and useful in our own spheres of influence. I found the last book to be especially fantastic, if only for that last series of scenes between the protagonists. Once I read about JK Rowling's experiences while working for Amnesty International, the very dark parts of the later books made sense -- and again, more material for discussion with the kids.

 

To the OP: I imagine that what's happened in your own home is that somehow you're feeling a vacuum created by loss of focus. It could be attributable to many things -- extended illness, excess tv, relatives dropping in or visiting too long. IME, regaining focus for the whole family happens best when the parents have talked about things like writing a family mission statement, what goals they have for their children in emotional/academic/spiritual growth over the next six months, year, two years, five years, etc. After the parents have some framework loosely established for themselves, having a "family meeting" in which you ask the kids leading questions (What makes our house a home? What do you think the purpose of our family is? How do we want to feel when we're here? When we first walk in? When we invite others over? How do you think we could accomplish those things?), take lots of notes, and meet again, for maybe half an hour every week (depending on the ages of the kids), to discuss just this kind of thing, keeping criticisms out of it, letting everyone have their own turn uninterrupted.

 

After you've spent a couple of hours on this, the kids begin to internalize the discussion and take it on as their own. Your question about what to drop or change has sort of answered itself because the vacuum has been filled. It's really cool to watch this process at work. :) HTH some.

[LittleIzumi]

I thought I would post the verse I was talking earlier: 1 Thessalonians 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil." Witchraft/sorcery looks like evil, even if it is fantasy. It's an appearance of evil.

 

All the children that watch HP and look up to him are, in a sense, being manipulated. It dulls them to how sinful witchcraft/sorcery really are. They see their hero doing things that are clearly against the Bible, and it dulls their sense of right and wrong.

 

The Bible says witchcraft and sorcery are evil, and that we are to abstain from all appearances of evil. Justifying it doesn't change the facts.

 

Look how seriously the Bible talks about scorcery:

Exodus 22:18 18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.

Leviticus 20:27 27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

Deuteronomy 13:5 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Micah 5:12 12 I will destroy your witchcraft and you will no longer cast spells.

Galatians 5:19-21 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

(biblegateway.com)

 

Is it fine for a child's hero to portray this when God is so clearly against it? Look at Galatians 5:21 (above)... if you look at HP's life (everything he does) would he be a Christian in real life? Would a sorcerer go to Heaven? Why is it then acceptable in children's fantasy? Why would we want our children to have a hero, that in real life, would go to hell?

 

Sometimes when we have to come up with a bunch of reasons to justify something, we should step back and re-evaluate our need to do all the justifying. Not trying to be judgemental... just food for thought.

 

That is food for thought, thanks.

However, I do not follow the OT literally--I won't stone my children to death if they curse me (Lev 20:9), I don't stay hidden away for 33 days after I give birth (Lev 12:4), or stop going to work every seventh year (Lev 25:1-7), I won't have my entire city stone my rebellious son to death (Deut 21:18-21), and so forth. I don't think the magic in HP is anything remotely like devil worship/getting power from Satan--or at least, only the very obviously evil character seeks for power that way. It's like being born with the ability to learn language easily, except they call it magic. With it being so completely removed from the reality of witchcraft, I don't think Harry Potter as written would go to hell, IMO. He lays down his life for his friends, which is very scripturally established as a righteous act, the greatest love one man can have. Voldemort would go to hell. But he's the evil guy.

[asta]

HP is not just speaking a language (and calling it magic), he is a sorcerer, period.

 

Harry Potter is a fictional character. In a book.

 

If he did not repent of his ways in real life, he would go to hell, no matter what other good things he did.

 

Where he doesn't exist.

 

Doing good does not make up for the bad.

 

Hmmm.

 

I'll remember that.

 

 

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[asta]

:confused: That goes without saying. If you read through all of my posts, you would have seen that I was saying even though he's a ficitional character, he is a hero many children. Then I said in real life he would go to hell and why would we want our children looking up to a character that is doing things that are detestable in the Bible?

 

Ah.

 

My bad.

 

 

a