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Is classical conversations a cult..or product..or..


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What's with the ads?

#1 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:45 PM

Really what exactly is it?  People peddle it like they are selling Avon. 

 

I might endure flack for this post, but there ya have it.  I have always wanted to know this.

 


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#2 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:52 PM

Where is that smiley about lighting a stick of dynamite, throwing it, then running away?? Fire in the hole!

 

I've got two links for you:

 

http://forums.welltr...ons-is-neither/

 

http://forums.welltr...aid-to-recruit/


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#3 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:53 PM

ohhh nice....thank you

 

 


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#4 okbud

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:54 PM

Yes.
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#5 SparklyUnicorn

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:55 PM

Yes.

 

:lol:


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#6 JudoMom

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 03:10 PM

Yes.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I had more respect for it until I heard the founder speak at a mini-conference promoting CC.  I actually left early.  It's been awhile, and I don't remember what the details were, but she said a few things that made no sense.

That said, I've got a friend who runs one in another state and I'm sure her group is good.  She's doing it only as a way to bring classical education to her rural community, and is not a slave to the program.

But, yeah...it does kind of have a cultish, MLM feel to it, the way people push it.  


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#7 G5052

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 03:19 PM

LOL. Yes, discussed here multiple times.

 

For us, it was good when it was good. But when it was bad, it was an expensive mistake that I regret. We gave up a vacation one year for a class with a director that had an attitude and didn't understand the material. I had to teach him the logic and Latin at home, and I coached DS and his friend on mock trial because they would have been on their own otherwise. They really got into it and were begging for adult help, and the director refused. The following year he had a good director, but my teen got very demotivated because the group were such low performers. He hated going and didn't like anyone there (his friend from the previous year went to public high school).

 

In so many ways, doing high school our way was better for us.


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#8 SamanthaCarter

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 03:29 PM

Seems to be the only way to break into the Christian homeschool community here. Which is sad, because that feels like buying community. Some people even tell me they are only in it for the friends - that's some serious payment for admission in the community!

 

My wise mama calls it a homeschooling fad. 


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#9 JoJosMom

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 04:14 PM

I call it the Amway of Classical Education, but I know that there are many folks who use it and love it.

 

 

I'm right, though.


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#10 Ellie

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 05:05 PM

 

 

I'm right, though.

 

:lol:


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#11 Tumbatoo

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 05:06 PM

Lol! But I feel it too :)
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#12 Calming Tea

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:53 PM

This time of year it's awful!! I get all these emails, phone calls, invitations, and then the group emails and then a new "campus" is opening up at our church and then a current CC mom I'm friends with is thinking of becoming a Director not because she's truly wanting to but feeling pressured to (both becuase they need one and to save money)...

 

it's the Amway of the homeschool world!


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#13 heatherwith3

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 08:58 PM

The people who I have met face to face that do it certainly seem cultlike. However, I don't think that's necessarily indicative of everyone who is involved. My church is going to be a campus for it next year, so I'm sure I'll hear more in the near future. Sigh.
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#14 Mrs Twain

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:50 PM

Most people in CC use it just like they would any co-op. They come for a few years and then move on to something else. There is a minority who consider it their entire homeschool life, including social network. Maybe these are the people you are referring to?

Won't dh be surprised when I tell him that the kids and I are members of a cult...
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#15 Bethany Grace

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 01:53 AM

I seriously just can't get over the high price of it! If I were going to spend that kind of money, I'd want something accredited and taught by teachers/subject experts. We can go to our local co-op for 1/4 of the cost, be part of a community, and have both academic and fun classes. I know many people love it, but IMO, CC is way overpriced for what you get.
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#16 Jess4879

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:04 AM

Our CC group is actually pretty quiet.  I know a few people who are in it and they aren't pushy, though of course they love it and do try to sell you on it.  But I do the same thing with Bravewriter, so we're even. HAHA 

 

I have never attended and I've honestly never understood the draw to CC.  Most of the people I know, have read comments from, etc say they love it for the "community"...but it seems like an awful lot of money to pay for friends.  I don't know why the people who love CC haven't said, "hey, how about we get together once a week at such and such a place and have coffee and drill memory work ... for free. " I mean, a lot of them are having to tutor to afford it anyways, so if you're doing the teaching anyways...

 

I really don't see how CC is a "full curriculum" but I do know that is how our CC sells itself.  I wouldn't put my kids in a CC program and consider it well rounded, personally.  But again, I've never attended, so maybe I am missing something vital. 


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#17 Mrs Twain

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:18 AM

The reason I pay the money for CC is because it has filled in all the holes that I wasn't able to get done at home by myself.  Public speaking every week, tons of memory work, classroom experience, some science, art, and music, and a whole lot of extra friends including weekly lunchtime and recess.  Plus I don't have to prepare anything or teach anything like at other co-ops.  So that is why I don't mind paying the money.

 

CC makes you sign something that says you know their program is not a full curriculum, but maybe some people try to make it out to be a full curriculum.


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#18 SamanthaCarter

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:39 AM

I found what seems to be an ideal alternative here in our area. It's a Monday homeschool "academy" where you can sign up for classes a la carte. They are taught by moms, but only the moms who want to teach a specific class. They have to turn in a proposal in January after which the director approves and makes sure there are not redundancies. She also tries to recruit teachers for the gaps that she sees in the class offerings for the next year. The teachers are paid $10 per student per month. We've only done one class as a trial the year, IEW for my 5th grader, and we've been happy. Lots of teens! We'll utilize this much more next year. :) 


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#19 Job121

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 10:19 AM

 

 

 

I'm right, though.

:thumbup:  My favorite phrase!

 

I felt like I lost many homeschooling friends to CC group. My co-op group dissolved couple years ago because many members moved to CC. My kids were puzzled that why many friends are all of sudden disappeared. I am sure it suits some families, but sad to see that homeschooling somewhat commercialized. 


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#20 JoJosMom

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 11:04 AM

I found what seems to be an ideal alternative here in our area. It's a Monday homeschool "academy" where you can sign up for classes a la carte. They are taught by moms, but only the moms who want to teach a specific class. They have to turn in a proposal in January after which the director approves and makes sure there are not redundancies. She also tries to recruit teachers for the gaps that she sees in the class offerings for the next year. The teachers are paid $10 per student per month. We've only done one class as a trial the year, IEW for my 5th grader, and we've been happy. Lots of teens! We'll utilize this much more next year. :)

 

That sounds great!  I am seriously envious.


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#21 OhElizabeth

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 11:23 AM

:iagree:

 

 

I had more respect for it until I heard the founder speak at a mini-conference promoting CC.  I actually left early.  It's been awhile, and I don't remember what the details were, but she said a few things that made no sense.

That said, I've got a friend who runs one in another state and I'm sure her group is good.  She's doing it only as a way to bring classical education to her rural community, and is not a slave to the program.

But, yeah...it does kind of have a cultish, MLM feel to it, the way people push it.  

 

Same here. One of the head honchos came to a convention where I was working at chatted with me at the booth for like 45 minutes. After that, I was pretty convinced I would never darken the doorstep of CC.

 

It's fine for people, but there's definitely a persuasion to it, at least at the top level, about WHY they're doing it and why it's so good. That's fine for them, but apparently I don't have that persuasion. ;)

 

But, you know, if you go to a local level group, and it's really a good fit for your situation, more power to you! I've kinda learned over the years homeschooling is a lot like a trip to Disney: Lots of good ways to do it. :)

SaveSave


Edited by OhElizabeth, 11 February 2017 - 11:24 AM.

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#22 luuknam

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 11:37 AM

Now I'm almost feeling bad nobody's ever tried to talk me into CC! (just kidding).

 

Apparently the closest group to me is 42 miles away. Though they're listing 3 future groups that will be closer. I do hope it's not going to affect other groups in the area, but I think most of the people who would be into CC are already in some church co-ops, so I don't think it'd matter much.



#23 Calming Tea

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 12:15 PM

It's more about community and accountability than anything else.

 

I don't think it's expensive at all.  I think it's reasonable.

 

BUT you need to realize you are NOT getting a teacher! You are getting an UNTRAINED MOM who may or may not have any actual ability or interest in the subjects.  She is most likely (90%) doing it for her own tuition to be covered, and though she may really love the interaction you have zero idea how great she will be. Most of the Challenge teachers teach one year and then, they're pressured to start their own CC community to expand the pyramid and make more of their own money.  You are expected to teach all the info on your own, throughout the week.  

 

The curriculum is fine, the money is not that expensive...I think the real problem with CC is the MLM style cult like marketing tactics- it causes communities to constantly be torn apart rather than grow strong and stable.  I personally think they should charge MORE (like, a lot more) and actually train and test the "tutors" with a full 6 month to a year training and testing course.  :)  For math, they can continue doing what they're doing but then they should just take math completely out of the CC days.  What a waste of time to have kids "sharing" what they learned in math.  It ends up being the same kids who love math and feel confident, teaching the rest of the kids.  

 

For us, we'd rather pay for specific classes (averages 700.00 per year for high school) who are experts in their field and love the subject at hand.  Much better fit for us...

 

CC has its place....there are a lot of cool things about it.

 

BUT THeir marketing is very very pushy.

 


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#24 momacacia

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 01:26 PM

A cult.

I just wanted to say that. 😂
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#25 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 01:40 PM

I don't know much about the founders but I do think CCs vary widely.  The local CC was not appealing to me for various reasons but it has definitely been a very helpful alternative for several homeschoolers I know.  These are educated, self-aware, very proactive go getters who are staunch educational advocates for their kids.  They find the local CC works well for filling in certain needs.  I don't see them deliberately or inadvertently joining a "cult".  :)  Doesn't mean that the overall CC founder plan isn't more cult like.  I don't know.

 

I think the effectiveness and/or "cultishness" of CC probably depends mostly on how local ones are run and who runs them.  I realize that there isn't a ton of flex in the grand scheme of things with the CC program but there is enough flex that a different teacher/director/point of view or need of the participants can make a massive difference.

 

Cost is high for this area, but for some it is worth it.  For instance, one of DD's friends has learning challenges that were absolutely NOT supported by the local school system.  They tried private schools and it caused tremendous academic and emotional strain. None of the private schools was willing to work with her to provide scaffolding/accommodations much less remediation. They started homeschooling but our local homeschooling community outside of CC is tiny and erratic and unreliable.  They finally joined CC.  It was a much better fit and she is thriving.  Definitely worth the money and time invested.



#26 G5052

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 02:04 PM

:thumbup:  My favorite phrase!

 

I felt like I lost many homeschooling friends to CC group. My co-op group dissolved couple years ago because many members moved to CC. My kids were puzzled that why many friends are all of sudden disappeared. I am sure it suits some families, but sad to see that homeschooling somewhat commercialized. 

 

That's what happened here, especially among those that offered grade school classes. I used to teach grade school science classes to make a little $$$ and enjoy doing hands-on science in a group with my own kids, and in one year when three Foundations/Essentials campuses opened nearby, my enrollment dropped by over 50%. At that point it really wasn't worth it any more because I wasn't even going to break even and couldn't charge any more. That group limped along for awhile, but it's closing down permanently in June, partially because the demand isn't there, even for their high school classes.

 

And several support groups actually shut down completely. One went to an email-only group after years of having large, very lively meetings and quite a few special events.

 

I don't think it's expensive at all.  I think it's reasonable.

 

BUT you need to realize you are NOT getting a teacher! You are getting an UNTRAINED MOM who may or may not have any actual ability or interest in the subjects.  She is most likely (90%) doing it for her own tuition to be covered, and though she may really love the interaction you have zero idea how great she will be. Most of the Challenge teachers teach one year and then, they're pressured to start their own CC community to expand the pyramid and make more of their own money.  You are expected to teach all the info on your own, throughout the week.  

 

The curriculum is fine, the money is not that expensive...I think the real problem with CC is the MLM style cult like marketing tactics- it causes communities to constantly be torn apart rather than grow strong and stable.  I personally think they should charge MORE (like, a lot more) and actually train and test the "tutors" with a full 6 month to a year training and testing course.   :)  For math, they can continue doing what they're doing but then they should just take math completely out of the CC days.  What a waste of time to have kids "sharing" what they learned in math.  It ends up being the same kids who love math and feel confident, teaching the rest of the kids.  

 

For us, we'd rather pay for specific classes (averages 700.00 per year for high school) who are experts in their field and love the subject at hand.  Much better fit for us...

 

CC was always expensive for our family. There were times that I barely had enough gas to make it there and home, and we didn't participate in the pizza days and other events that cost money for the first three years. For me at least, that sacrifice was worth it for Foundations and Essentials. 

 

Not returning to Challenge was the right choice for us. With a combination of bartering, early payment discounts, and payment plans, I was able to get 3 online classes and the books needed for what we were paying for Challenge. An expert teacher, particularly for Latin, accomplished more of what I wanted.


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#27 texasmom33

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 02:25 PM

It is exploding around here and the members are VERY enthusiastic to put it nicely. It baffles them to know I like the Foundations book as a supplement for memory work but that's about as far in as I want. But it really is overtaking everything around here which makes me a bit sad. There's a lot of pressure it seems in some groups and the whole memory master thing etc....I'm glad I didn't know about it when I started homeschooling. Too much pressure- i wouldn't want to be in that just starting out.

Glad I'm not the only one that's sees it as an Amway Cult! :)
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#28 Itsnotasprint

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 04:24 PM

It is cultish. My personal experience with CC and an overzealous angry director was awful. We were in a campus for two years and decided to use our books at home with friends because it was getting too expensive.  The director talked to all the tutors and her area manager before exploding at me, because she was misinformed and thought I was breaking rules. When her campus ended early the next year, it was confirmation it was wise to get out of there when we did.

 

Here is what a friend found for me and her comment at the end which was intended to be light-hearted.

https://scvclassical....3-14-final.pdf


"You hereby agree to notify Company in writing of: (1) any infringement or potential infringement of any of the
Intellectual Property by any third party and/or (2) any claim by any third party that any of the Intellectual Property
infringes or may infringe on the intellectual property rights of such third party, within ten (10) business days of Your
actual knowledge of such infringement, potential infringement, claimed infringement and/or potential claimed
infringement."

This is some of the kookiest legalese I've ever read. "and (b) Company shall be considered, forever and for all
purposes throughout the universe from the moment of creation, in any media whether now known or hereafter
developed, the author thereof and the sole copyright owner of the Work and the owner of all rights therein and..."

For ever and all purposes throughout the universe??? Like their legal rights extend to Mars and Jupiter and the right hand of the throne of God?? LOL


Edited by Itsnotasprint, 11 February 2017 - 04:34 PM.

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#29 yvonne

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 07:33 PM

I

"You hereby agree to notify Company in writing of: (1) any infringement or potential infringement of any of the
Intellectual Property by any third party and/or (2) any claim by any third party that any of the Intellectual Property
infringes or may infringe on the intellectual property rights of such third party, within ten (10) business days of Your
actual knowledge of such infringement, potential infringement, claimed infringement and/or potential claimed
infringement."

This is some of the kookiest legalese I've ever read. "and (b) Company shall be considered, forever and for all
purposes throughout the universe from the moment of creation, in any media whether now known or hereafter
developed, the author thereof and the sole copyright owner of the Work and the owner of all rights therein and..."

For ever and all purposes throughout the universe??? Like their legal rights extend to Mars and Jupiter and the right hand of the throne of God?? LOL

 

ROFLOL  Is that actual verbiage from the CC contract in the second paragraph??  ("...and (b)... forever and all purposes throughout the universe from the moment of creation...")  I was thinking you were being hyperbolic, but in the next paragraph it sounds like that was actual verbiage!? But.... I can believe it! That is SO CC corporate!  Their contracts for directors were many pages long a few years ago. I wonder how big the legal firm is that represents CC corp. (Directors, I think, are on their own.)

 

 

I think the reason there is both 1) a cultish feel to CC and 2) so many "normal" families who love CC  is because there is a huge difference between 1) the folks in CC corporate (and their faithful minions) and 2) many (most?) of the CC campuses.

 

 

The directors and families in the two campuses I've been involved in and at the campuses I have friends at are just good people who enjoy getting together. And, the directors were not, at least as of a number of years ago, in it for the money because the money is minimal for all the time a conscientious, eager director puts into her campus. Directors were mostly people who wanted a community for their own kids, closer to home. Families in CC who like it want to tell others about it. That's just a natural tendency--you discover something you feel is the next best thing to sliced bread and you want to tell your friends about it! But that excitement can seem cultish, I guess.

 

 

Then there's CC corporate. Maybe families don't see much of CC corporate because the wonderful directors at their campuses shield them, in a way, or as much as they can, from any aggressive sales tactics and tight legal restrictions of CC corp.

 

In fact, there isn't much info on CC corporate available online, but one gets a sense of an almost cultish control that corporate seems to wield, and the methods they use to establish and wield that control, by the verbiage in their contracts and by watching their reaction to blog posts or other web posts that are at all critical of CC. Here's one thread that doesn't seem to have been quashed, yet. The OP asks for info on CC corp's business/financial structure, apparently a touchy topic. It's interesting to see what defenses come out. (Scroll down to the 2-18, 3:36 pm, post for an apparent comment from corporate.)  Maybe this is why there's a sense that CC is a cult.

 

 

Out of curiosity..... Are there online databases you can search for legal actions against a company or against an officer of a company?  Or is that sort of info inaccessible if the company is privately held?  (PM if that's easier.)


Edited by yvonne, 11 February 2017 - 09:14 PM.

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#30 G5052

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 08:56 PM

Out of curiosity..... Are there online databases you can search for legal actions against a company or against an officer of a company?  Or is that sort of info inaccessible if the company is privately held?  (PM if that's easier.)

 

Sometimes judges will rule to take proceedings off of public databases, but you should be able to search on the government website of the county where something was likely to be filed. Most counties have online databases that allow you to search for an individual's name or the name of a corporation.

 

There are also some nation-wide databases that employers search when they're considering hiring, but they're on a subscription basis.

 

The IRS does not make their investigations public unless it goes to court.



#31 Calming Tea

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:30 PM

"From the moment of creation throughout the universe"

I KNEW IT '!!! Not only are they trying to take over the world but the whole galaxy and universe too!!
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#32 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:34 PM

Wow.  The whole Universe.  Now THAT is interesting....  :lol:


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#33 Calming Tea

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:41 PM

Boggles the mind
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#34 Margaret in CO

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 02:48 PM

I vote cult.  :lol:


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#35 Cadam

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:08 AM

Dh calls is a homeschool MLM ( and I work for two CC communities in the area!)

 

Like any co-op, it is very very dependent on the people you are working with. If you have a good Director it can be a great place that is super supportive of classical education and an academically focused homeschool. 

 

At the 7-12 th grade level it functions like a UMS and your experience is even more dependent on the teacher. Our community is established enough that a small group of us basically pick who we want for each position, and tell the area manager (our boss) who it is so we don't end up with inexperienced people teaching classes. Some groups are young or they don't have a bossy leadership team like we do, so they take whoever raises their hand.

 

The company does sell all kinds of products that you don't' need to do the program and I am sure they make a good deal of money on it. They are quite open that this is a business, not a ministry. I don't like the materials as well as some other options, but this is what we have here and they are my people.

 

Some people are rather cult-like. Not all of us are. It doesn't hurt to visit and check out the vibe of your local group.


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#36 Reader411

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:44 AM

Our local CC is absolutely not a cult.  It is some of the nicest, most sincere, non-pushy folks out there. 

 

The tutors are excellent. 

 

Like all groups, it depends on who is a member and who is in charge and what their agenda is.   

 

Go visit and see for yourself what your local community is like. 


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#37 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:23 AM

I don't think the people involved are cult-like. I think they are insecure about teaching their kids and like the security of someone else telling them what to teach, especially the parents at the high school level. When they talk to me, the idea of teaching high school courses the way you want, on subjects you want, at the level you want is completely outside their realm of reference. They want the structure of something completely outlined and provided by someone else.

One family who consulted me ended up putting their kids in CC. In their family's case, I think CC was a good choice, and their kids are getting a stronger academic foundation than they would have otherwise. CC pushes them to a higher standard.

For me, it would be suffocating and would lower our academic outcomes. My kids are functioning on a completely different level. My personal educational philosophy is pretty much the exact opposite of CCs. But that complete autonomy to approach education according to my personal objectives according to my kids' individual abilities is why we homeschool.

One pet peeve I do have is the misconception that colleges like a CC transcript better than a "mommy" one. I give homeschool to college talks and this is a sentiment that has been expressed at more than of my talks. It is completely false and I make it very clear that any coursework taken in an unaccredited classroom with an unaccredited teacher is no more "validated" than coursework completed at home. I'm not sure where they are getting that idea, but when they say, "But we won't be applying like regular homeschoolers bc we use CC," there is obviously a disconnect about what CC actually is, an unaccredited co-op with a transcript that is absolutely not equivalent to a school's or more "valid" any other homeschooler's.
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#38 okbud

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:21 AM

Our local CC is absolutely not a cult.  It is some of the nicest, most sincere, non-pushy folks out there. 

 


 

 

Are meanness and insincerity in individual members hallmarks of cults?

 

FWIW no one thinks cc is actually a cult that aims to systematically segregate members from their families, friends, etc.

 

Segregate folks form their monies, maybe....


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#39 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:24 AM

Are meanness and insincerity in individual members hallmarks of cults?

FWIW no one thinks cc is actually a cult that aims to systematically segregate members from their families, friends, etc.

Segregate folks form their monies, maybe....

preying on insecurities....(but that is not restricted to CC. It seems to be a homeschool marketing strategy.)
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#40 okbud

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:37 AM

preying on insecurities....(but that is not restricted to CC. It seems to be a homeschool marketing strategy.)

 

It's an everything marketing strategy.


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#41 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:46 AM

It's an everything marketing strategy.


Not mine. ;) My goal is affirm parents' abilities to teach their kids. (I really stink at marketing!)
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#42 PinkyandtheBrains.

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:50 AM

Are meanness and insincerity in individual members hallmarks of cults?

 

FWIW no one thinks cc is actually a cult that aims to systematically segregate members from their families, friends, etc.

 

Segregate folks form their monies, maybe....

 

I watched more than one friend who couldn't afford to, join CC because they felt they had to for their kids to be included. One family was unemployed, struggling to maintain a house, and trying to figure out how to pay for three kids to be in CC.  There was so much pressure on them to do it. It has left me with a very negative opinion. 


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#43 okbud

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:01 AM

Not mine. ;) My goal is affirm parents' abilities to teach their kids. (I really stink at marketing!)

 

 8!

 

Step 1 of marketing: don't say you're bad at it in front of your demographic!


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#44 Calming Tea

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:23 AM

Lol @okbud

If it was a university model school that would be one thing. But, it's not. It's and MLM style company and you're paying untrained parents to lead a classroom full of kids, in subjects they may or may not have any actual skill or interest and many of them are pressured into doing it.

I think they SHOULD change the whole structure to be an actual UM school, and have the parents trained and tested and vetted.

All of the people I know join either for community or insecurity. Community is a very valid reason to do something - community is a basic human need and if CC is the only thing happening in your area, you could end up being stuck with it for the sake of community.

But I think that's super sad- to give up a huge part of the reason we Homeschool (an individualized education!) to have community.

:(


Edited by Calming Tea, 14 February 2017 - 02:22 PM.

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#45 yvonne

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:51 AM

You aren't necessarily giving up an individualized education when you do the Foundations/Essentials levels of CC. You can use it as a side thing. We only used it as a side thing in Foundations & Essentials. We kept using Rod & Staff, which imo is better than CC's grammar, and everything else we would have used on our own.

 

It would probably be difficult at the Challenge levels to just use CC as a supplement. I know if we'd done Challenge, we would have continued with our own math and our own Latin. In fact, I felt we could all of the academics better than any of the Challenge levels offered. But, as 8 mentioned, for some families, CC does push them to do more than they'd do on their own.

 

The fact that we could do the academics better and the fact that I was so repelled by what I saw of the corporate side are why we only spent two years with CC and did not continue with their Challenge program. F&E were purely supplemental for us, and the community aspect of it did add a wonderful dimension to our week when my kids were younger. I'd love to see some of these people who have been directors and some of the families who have done CC, leave and start their own, non-CC communities which can be exactly what they want, free of the financial & legal burdens of CC corporate.


Edited by yvonne, 14 February 2017 - 11:55 AM.

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#46 wendyroo

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:09 PM

BUT you need to realize you are NOT getting a teacher! You are getting an UNTRAINED MOM who may or may not have any actual ability or interest in the subjects.  She is most likely (90%) doing it for her own tuition to be covered, and though she may really love the interaction you have zero idea how great she will be. Most of the Challenge teachers teach one year and then, they're pressured to start their own CC community to expand the pyramid and make more of their own money.  You are expected to teach all the info on your own, throughout the week.  

 

This is the part I cannot get past.

 

I think the majority of people are under-educated and ineffective teachers.  We went to a free kids' science expo at the community college this past weekend, and one of the professors gave a truly abysmal explanation at the station where they had kids extracting DNA from strawberries.  This was a professor, and I would have paid money for my kids to not be exposed to his confusing explanation.  How on Earth could I hold minimally trained parents to a higher academic standard?

 

If I were planning to drop a boatload of money on a weekly academic program, I would choose our local Homeschool Ancillary Program.  Kids spend the day learning subjects such as art, Spanish, music, drama, writing and economics from teachers who are experts in those subjects.  Each teachers' extensive training and experience is actually listed right on the website.  Plus, for a similar amount of money to CC, the HsAP is a full day drop off program, not a half day during which the parent must participate.

 

Wendy


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#47 Homeschool Mom in AZ

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:24 PM

I'm wondering if people experiencing zealous cc members and joining for the social network are from small homeschooling communities?

In my county (last I heard several years ago) we have about 9,000 kids with homeschool affidavits on file and no real regulation, so we have every kind of homeschooler you ever heard of around here.  Did cc find smaller communities and manage to market (aptly described as playing on insecurities) to enough of them so they had critical mass and became the norm?  I agree that all marketing is usually playing on insecurities and isn't something unique to cc. It's so weird to me that people would think they need to literally buy into that for community. 

Also, is it just me or do conservative evangelical women (I am one, so don't assume I'm prejudice against them) tend to like MLM schemes more than most people?  Between the jewelry, make up, purse and kitchen versions of MLM schemes, I run into them all the time at churches and in the homeschooling community.  I just don't get it.  Why would anyone limit themselves to what they can get at these small venues when the whole world of big box stores (Walmart, Target), amazon.com, and every mall in America exists?  I want to pick and choose from a world of options, not just what one company is peddling. 


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#48 heatherwith3

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:50 PM

[quote name="Homeschool Mom in AZ" post="7450383" timestamp="1487096676

Also, is it just me or do conservative evangelical women (I am one, so don't assume I'm prejudice against them) tend to like MLM schemes more than most people? Between the jewelry, make up, purse and kitchen versions of MLM schemes, I run into them all the time at churches and in the homeschooling community. I just don't get it. Why would anyone limit themselves to what they can get at these small venues when the whole world of big box stores (Walmart, Target), amazon.com, and every mall in America exists? I want to pick and choose from a world of options, not just what one company is peddling. [/quote]


I have found this to be true as well!

#49 Mrs Twain

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:56 PM

I can see why a CC transcript would be looked at as better than a mommy transcript. (I do not have my kids do CC beyond Foundations, so we are not any of those people who would will have a CC transcript.). But I have had enough contact with school administrators and others like them to know that anything non-mommy is regarded much higher than anything done by mommy. They don't trust mommies, no matter how smart and accomplished the mommies are!

#50 Calming Tea

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:57 PM

I'm wondering if people experiencing zealous cc members and joining for the social network are from small homeschooling communities?

In my county (last I heard several years ago) we have about 9,000 kids with homeschool affidavits on file and no real regulation, so we have every kind of homeschooler you ever heard of around here. Did cc find smaller communities and manage to market (aptly described as playing on insecurities) to enough of them so they had critical mass and became the norm? I agree that all marketing is usually playing on insecurities and isn't something unique to cc. It's so weird to me that people would think they need to literally buy into that for community.

Also, is it just me or do conservative evangelical women (I am one, so don't assume I'm prejudice against them) tend to like MLM schemes more than most people? Between the jewelry, make up, purse and kitchen versions of MLM schemes, I run into them all the time at churches and in the homeschooling community. I just don't get it. Why would anyone limit themselves to what they can get at these small venues when the whole world of big box stores (Walmart, Target), amazon.com, and every mall in America exists? I want to pick and choose from a world of options, not just what one company is peddling.


Yes I'm so tired of my homeschool friends trying to sell me stuff. I feel like just offering them 15.00 and not having to sit through the sales pitch!!!

But honestly I think there are two reasons homeschool mom's or SAHMs do more MLM,..

1. They're a one income family and they need extra income
2. They need hobbies and stuff to do with other adults

So having a "pampered chef party" and getting to be with adults while possibly making money is very alluring for this segment of the population!

I have had ONE frinrd that actually made a career of MLM and that's becusde she got into Pampered Chef the first year it existed, and was at the top of the entire south Florida pyramid.

I have had OVER 25 friends and acquaintances get into numerous MLM, get so passionate, sometimes spend money and end up losing money, drive everyone crazy around them and then give up and (usually) move into something else later.

As to your question about small communities, sometimes so many families join the CC fad that entire homeschooling groups fall apart, you previously had 60 families and now you have 5 ....and it's not enough to make it work for park days, filed trips, parties, events etc. this happened in my old community. The non CC people had to start joining several groups much further away and working so much harder to network becusde the previously strong and healthy support group fell apart :(
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