Vent...is this common..PS related

[IndigoGlitter]

I have read through a lot and feel like I am entering this late but...

 

Dental appointments. As I saw someone point out, you get cleanings twice a year. I remember it twice a year growing up. If it is every 6 months you can't get two cleanings done in summer. One sure, but two? Not so much.

 

But still, this isn't the point.

 

The point is that a school, any school, shouldn't be dictating when they think a student should be able to arrive. Oh, you just have a dental appointment? You can make it back, we don't care about the rest of your family. Who died and made them king of the hill. It is none of the schools business. If I had six children I would schedule them all at once as well. No way I'd drive for an hour 3 or 4 times just because it was inconvenient for the school.

 

Schools shouldn't have this much power. I know... yes, I know they need rules and boundaries because there are irresponsible parents. However, why should a responsible parent have to put with with the crap because of an irresponsible one? Are absences really that much of a problem at these schools? If they are, shouldn't they be looking at why instead of just making another rule? Why are there so many absences?

 

You don't get in trouble at work for missing time to go to the Dr. You just have to let them know ahead of time. I have held many jobs, in strict environments and as long as I said "Hey I need Tuesday off two weeks from now for a dental cleaning" they were like, OK got it. There wasn't any hemming and hawing about excused or unexcused absences. You also don't need a doctors note. The last job I worked only wanted a note if you were out for three days or more. Even then there was leeway if they new you weren't the kind to abuse it. Why can't schools make the same allowances? Aren't schools preparing children for the real world? Well, the rules that they have do not mimic the real world. Especially the ones presented by the OP.

 

Another poster said this would be a hill to die on and I agree. If it was my child I would be raising all sorts of holy hell.

 

To me it isn't so much about the rule as it is about the control they want. Sounds like a lot of schools think they have more control over your child than you do.

 

 

 

[Haiku]

That was a big issue when my dd21 was in school: the schools wanted way too much control and felt completely justified in interfering in parental decisions. I pushed back when I felt it was appropriate to do so. The school's job was to educate my child, not parent her or control me.

[Haiku]

We are allowed (by insurance) to get cleanings every 180 days. When we schedule an appt, the dentist office's software automatically schedules us for the same time 180 days later. If we give up that slot, it's nearly impossible to get another one because everyone else is already pre-scheduled 180 days out, too. We go when we are scheduled to go.

[FaithManor]

What always makes me laugh about the whole 'responsible parents make sure their child is in school ever minute of every day' is that growing up, it was the more responsible parents who didn't. They were the ones chasing up extra medical care, dental care, and providing enrichment when the school didn't IN SCHOOL HOURS - and the results of children who had these type of parents were always better than those of the children who were simply present 100% of the time, but who lacked health, dental and enrichment. 

 

Teachers loved these parents, because they were also the ones who volunteered at the school, and ran the P&C. 

Oh absolutely! When I was in school, the perfect attendance award winners were often sickly, neglected children in general. Certainly there were some that were just crazy healthy and had immune systems that never failed, but most of the ones that got the award spent several days per year sick in the classroom, sick on the cot in the nurse's office, nursing toothaches so bad they couldn't think straight, you name it. Many came from families that sent their kids to school not so their children could get an education, but because it was babysitting.

 

Those of us that were out when we were sick, out when we needed check ups, out when our parents had unique opportunities to travel with us or to take us to a musical or whatever....we were the ones the teachers never actually worried about struggling with concepts, missing assignments, or being absent.

 

There is a balance to be certain, but within a framework of the bigger picture.

[Catwoman]

Because we use the free dental clinic, we are given a date and time slots for our appointments. No negotiation. If ds was in school, he'd be missing school on those days, because if we don't keep the appointment, we get kicked off the list. No more dental care for us.

 

There are always kids in school uniforms in the dental clinic when we go. Responsible low income parents, making sure their child gets dental health care.

 

It's an incredibly elitist idea, that you have 'choice' about these things. Sure you do, when you have money. When you don't, you make the best decisions you can. All those kids in the waiting room during school time - great trade-off. Miss a few afternoons of school for a life time of good dental health ? Their parents made the right decision.

 

If the school wants to get uppity about it, they can take it to the dental clinic and their policies, not the parents.

 

And people with the luxury of choice can butt out of it.

I'm not sure anyone has much luxury of choice when it comes to routine dental appointments unless they schedule them about a year in advance.

 

Well, other than Bill, of course. Apparently things are different in his world. ;)

 

But hey, what do I know? I'm just one of those dumb homeschoolers who believes that if a kid is in school for 160 or 170 days instead of that magical 180, he might still turn out to be an educated and successful person.

[Anne in CA]

I still remember how ripped off I felt winning the perfect attendance award at the end of fourth grade. The teacher made sure everyone won an award, even though it was the 70's and it wasn't necessary, lol, but everyone else won an award for something they did well, and I got the perfect attendance award because my mom had a new baby and sent me and my siblings to school no matter how sick were were because she was busy. I was quite annoyed.

[SKL]

Yeah, I had bad attendance and yet the teachers loved me.  I really don't think they cared if I was there or not.  I was an acer regardless.

[Tsuga]

Bill, 

 

If I understand you right, you think that sitting in a classroom is more important than basic health care? You do realize that dental care, including routine cleanings, is basic health care, don't you? I'm just flummoxed at this attitude. 

 

Me too.

 

My family couldn't afford 2x/year dental care, I couldn't afford it for a period as an adult, and now I have mild periodontal disease. It was the one thing I skimped on in childhood. My mom couldn't afford to take off work. I most certainly will take my children out for cleanings! Dental health is a major health issue--periodontal disease is actually related to heart disease, although the link is still being researched.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3100856/

 

Anyway... some of the world's greatest minds were sickly and missed months of school. They managed somehow. School is vitally important, but health comes first! If you miss part of first period, so be it.

 

I do think truancy laws are important, but 2x/year dental appointments are not truancy. They are an excused health-related absence and everybody does it who can afford work off during those hours.

[SKL]

I really have to wonder how school employees find time to fuss over how much time kids take off for excusable reasons like dental visits.  I mean, if the parent keeps the kid out for the whole 7 hours, instead of 4 hours, who gives a crap?  Roll your eyes and move on!  Surely there is some other work to be done.

[idnib]

Finally read the entire thread.

 

The irresponsible parents are taking 6 kids to regular dental checkups.

 

OK then.

[Tsuga]

Finally read the entire thread.

 

The irresponsible parents are taking 6 kids to regular dental checkups.

 

OK then.

 

They should get a medal, like the medals the Soviets gave to mothers of 10+ children. Hero of the Soviet Union, via Motherhood. Only this would be closer to a Army Good Conduct Medal and you'd get it if you had a total of 96 dental checkups before your children graduated high school. So anyone with over three kids who manages all of those flipping appointments gets a medal.

 

I'd be out  :blushing:  but imagine the dental health in this country if you actually got something tangible for doing something like that.

[Library Momma]

I still remember how ripped off I felt winning the perfect attendance award at the end of fourth grade. The teacher made sure everyone won an award, even though it was the 70's and it wasn't necessary, lol, but everyone else won an award for something they did well, and I got the perfect attendance award because my mom had a new baby and sent me and my siblings to school no matter how sick were were because she was busy. I was quite annoyed.

 

 

The perfect attendance award is a real thing?  I thought it was something from TV shows and movies -an exaggeration!  

[SKL]

LOL they do perfect attendance at our school too.  In my entire life I have never had a prayer, nor have my kids.  They should have an award for worst attendance - now that we contend for.  ;)

 

My kids already had 1 absence and 1 tardy by the 5th day of school this year.

 

Lock me up!

[Dmmetler]

DD10 has gotten a ton of perfect attendance awards for dance and cheer team. my theory is that it's because she's not in PS-so she is exposed to less, doesn't have school events scheduled at night, and never has a major homework assignment or test that doing takes priority. (In fact, for a lot of years the only subject I outsourced was PE). When she was actually in school she missed 22 days because of illness. Her pediatrician commented that if everyone homeschooled, she'd be out of business, because we went from DD being in her office practically weekly to seeing her once a year for well child checkups!

[Pippen]

The perfect attendance award is a real thing?  I thought it was something from TV shows and movies -an exaggeration!  

 

There was a guy in my graduating class that only missed one day in all four years of high school. 

[MomtoCandJ]

There was a guy in my graduating class that only missed one day in all four years of high school.

My youngest brother had perfect attendance from 2nd grade until 11th grade. When he was in 11th grade my dad passed away so he missed school for that and his senior year I think he missed a couple of days for another funeral for an old bus driver who was also the grandma of one of his classmates.

[Butter]

The perfect attendance award is a real thing?  I thought it was something from TV shows and movies -an exaggeration!  

 

Where my sister used to live in New Mexico they give a used car (worth a couple thousand) to a graduating senior with perfect attendance all four years of high school.  A couple years ago it got down to just two kids.  Both were straight-A honors students who happened to be very, very healthy kids.  Usually they have 4 or 5 contenders by the end of senior year.  They pick a name out of a hat to determine the actual winner.  My sister's friend's daughter got it two years ago.

[SKL]

I remember hearing of kids who went through all 12 years of school without ever being absent or tardy.  More power to them!  I always hated school, so I would fake an illness if I'd gone too long without a real one.  And getting to school on time (I was always a walker) - hmph.  Didn't see the point.

[MomtoCandJ]

Oops I stand corrected my youngest brother had perfect attendance kindergarten through 11th grade. My bad....

[SereneHome]

Yeah, a responsible parent takes care of that before school resumes for summer, not after. It really is that simple.

 

Bill

 

Well, a responsible parent should take their kids to dentist appts twice a year and hopefully not back to back

 

[SereneHome]

BTW, those type of stupid policies and rules create nothing but negative consequences.

 

Sick kids go to school making  other kids sick.

Sick kids go to school potentially making themselves sicker.

Various family events can be missed bc of such policies.

And many many more

 

And on top of all that all it does is teaching kids that face time is the most important thing.

 

If you never worked with someone who was less than productive bu thought he deserved rewards for simply showing up - you don't know what you are missing!!

 

[Library Momma]

Where my sister used to live in New Mexico they give a used car (worth a couple thousand) to a graduating senior with perfect attendance all four years of high school.  A couple years ago it got down to just two kids.  Both were straight-A honors students who happened to be very, very healthy kids.  Usually they have 4 or 5 contenders by the end of senior year.  They pick a name out of a hat to determine the actual winner.  My sister's friend's daughter got it two years ago.

 

 

Wow a car.  We don't have any awards here until academic ones starting in Middle School.  

 

When I was a kid there were about 250 kids in each grade and about 3-5 were Jewish.  The schools did not close on the Jewish holidays so we had to miss school.  They counted as excused absences but absences nonetheless. Now that same school system does close on the Jewish holidays not because there are many Jewish students, but because there are quite a few Jewish teachers.  Where my kids attend the schools do not close.  I wonder how that factors in with systems that have this type of award.  

[AndyJoy]

When I taught middle school it never would have occurred to me to care about kids missing class for medical/dental appointments. 95% of parents followed school policy and warned us the day before so we could prepare by providing a makeup test time, send home the assignment early, send an email with instructions, etc. It was no big deal. Depending on the subject and the student's understanding of the material, I sometimes let them skip assignments too.

 

The ones who bothered me were the parents who planned week-long vacation trips but gave no notice or breezed in Friday afternoon expecting me to just give them the assignments immediately without any warning. Or the ones who lied about their kids being sick for 2 days so they could go see Will Farrell film a movie nearby. School policy would have allowed them to miss school with prior notice, but instead the kids came back flaunting it and expecting to make up assignments instead of planning ahead. These were students who really struggled with math and were not motivated to work.

[kiwik]

You are rationalizing pulling a student out of class for an entire day to get his teeth cleaned. It is exactly these sorts of rationalizations that have forced schools to get tough.

 

You are in the wrong here.

 

Bill

In NZ children's dentistry is run by the state. Your child gets sent an appointment for sometime between 8.30 and four thirty and you take them or in some cases the clinic is at the school or in a truck and they are just hauled out of the classroom. I think it is a perfectly reasonable reason to take a day off school. I also don't think it is likely that the dentist would be able to schedule all children's appointments in the holidays. That said I can't imagine taking my kid's to get their teeth cleaned twice a year unless they had major issues. At the moment ds8 is on an 18 month call back and ds6 a 12 month call back.

 

I also can't imagine the check in situation as our schools are more open. We have gates but the only one that is locked is the one by the junior classroom that opens onto a busy road. I f your kid is not there at morning or afternoon roll call and you haven't let them know they call you. I think in highschool they check attendance for each lesson and text the parent if they are not there but I don't think they have to check in or out or have permission to leave though it may be they case with they younger students. I think a lot of the rules are due to security and liability issues which we don't really have. Parents not allowed to visit the school freely would be a real red flag for me but I know it is normal in many places.