contact with unbelievers

[mom4him]

I guess it would depend on what you consider 'contact'. I don't really have a lot of 'contact' with a lot of people on a person, one on one basis. Now saying that one of my best, most faithful friend would probably not be considered 'a Christian' by many. She has been there for me with the ends and outs of life the last few years much more supportively than some of the people that I used to consider 'my best friends'.

I also believe that we need to consider the people what we come into contact when just out and about. I really try to keep a good attitude when a clerk makes a mistake or when they are crabby with me whether justified of not. Some times I even have an opportunity to give a little glimps of Gods love for them.

[Jenny in Florida]

I use the word unconvinced. Non/unbeliever has always seemed a bit demeaning to me. I'm not sure if unconvinced comes off any better, but to my ear it sounds better.

 

Eh. "Unconvinced" still sounds to me like you're assuming that there is something of which I have yet to be convinced, rather than understanding that I'm convinced of something else.

 

I'm not "un" anything. I'm what I am.

[Lovedtodeath]

Was Jesus really good friends with those who did not believe? Did he spend his time with a particular non-believer on several occassions? He was moving and spending time with them once in order to spread the word. Balance is needed:

 

1 Cor 15:33 "Bad associations spoil useful habits." Proverbs 13:20 "He that is walking with wise persons will become wise." 2 Tim 3:5 "and from these turn away." 2 Cor 6:14,15 "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?..." Rev 18:4 "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins."

 

Galations 6:10 "Let us work what is good toward all."

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I just wonder how one would know if someone is of a certain faith (or not). Even those you meet at church. You assume...but you might be surprised. I have been to many churches, religious ceremonies, and religious events. I doubt anyone would have any clue what my real feelings are.

 

At the risk of offending the whole entire world, I will say that our best opportunities for forming relationships with Not Christians have arisen in our church. We go to a very liberal church where doctrinal teaching is non-existent. The people in the pews with us know very little about true Christianity. They know plenty about a prosperity gospel, and a God who resembles Santa Claus, and the hipness of youth pastors with eyebrow piercings...but not much about the Bible.

 

Sitting in a church doesn't make a person a Christian. Also, I agree that it is awful to go looking for unbelievers so that we can win them over with our charm over time. I've had Amway folk do the same thing to me, and it really made me angry.

 

Wouldn't it be more Christlike to just try to imitate Him in all we do, no matter where we are or who we are with? True, we shouldn't live life in little group-think enclaves. Neither should we bombard neighborhoods or social groups with a sneaky agenda. We should just preach at all times, and if necessary, use words. That is more honest and more genuine, in my opinion.

[Lovedtodeath]

Most of the others were afraid to be "inclusive" and since that time they have not been nice to me.

 

I have been black-listed from the biggest group in my area and by the individual members because I am not main-stream. I wish we could just have an inclusive group. I found one, but it is very small with mostly teenagers, and meets at a church!

[OnTheBrink]

 

Wouldn't it be more Christlike to just try to imitate Him in all we do, no matter where we are or who we are with? True, we shouldn't live life in little group-think enclaves. Neither should we bombard neighborhoods or social groups with a sneaky agenda. We should just preach at all times, and if necessary, use words. That is more honest and more genuine, in my opinion.

 

:iagree:

[Jenny in Florida]

1 Cor 15:33 "Bad associations spoil useful habits." Proverbs 13:20 "He that is walking with wise persons will become wise." 2 Tim 3:5 "and from these turn away." 2 Cor 6:14,15 "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?..." Rev 18:4 "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins."

 

Galations 6:10 "Let us work what is good toward all."

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I promise. I'm just trying to understand: Do many or most Christians accept these statements as reasons not to associate with those who believe differently? If so, that may explain a lot.

 

As a non-Christian, I would read those very differently.

 

For example, I don't consider myself "unwise" because I am not a Christian. Nor am I a fan of "lawlessness." And, although I'm not big on the whole concept of "sin," I don't go around committing acts that most Christians would consider sinful (other than possibly not believing what they believe).

 

And I definitely believe in working toward what is good for all.

 

So, I'm not clear on how associating with me would be a problem?

[Melinda in VT]

Was Jesus really good friends with those who did not believe? Did he spend his time with a particular non-believer on several occassions? He was moving and spending time with them once in order to spread the word.

 

How do we know? Most of Jesus' actions in his lifetime are not documented in the Bible. We really have a view of a very small portion of his life.

 

Balance is needed:

 

1 Cor 15:33 "Bad associations spoil useful habits." Proverbs 13:20 "He that is walking with wise persons will become wise." 2 Tim 3:5 "and from these turn away." 2 Cor 6:14,15 "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?..." Rev 18:4 "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins."

 

Galations 6:10 "Let us work what is good toward all."

 

I think if you think those who aren't Christians are "bad associations" or unwise or lawless, then no, you probably don't want to associate closely with them. Of course, those who aren't Christians probably wouldn't want to associate with someone who views them like that.

[Lovedtodeath]

As a non-Christian, I would read those very differently.

 

Well, when I quote scriptures I am not addressing those that do not believe in them. Nest of 3 had scriptures with the term unbeliever, so they may make more sense to you. Two of the scriptures I quoted were actually about false Christians.

 

I am not trying to make you feel bad, Jenny. I like you! I just wanted to present a more balanced view than what I saw in the OP. (I didn't read the other posts before replying :o, I do that a lot.) Mainly, I wanted to explain the way I do things.

 

Jesus spent time with "unbelievers" in order to spread the word, but no where do I see evidence that he cultivated friendships with them. His friends were his apostles, Martha and Mary... etc. When the rich man expressed interest in following Christ, but refused to sell his belongings in order to do so, Jesus walked away.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Jenny in Florida]

I am not trying to make you feel bad, Jenny. I like you!

 

No worries. I like you, too! I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the whole thing.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh, "work what is good toward all" was part of the balance.

 

I do not cultivate close friendships with those that believe differently as I do. This would undermine my faith.

 

But, if someone I know of didn't have groceries for the week, I could fix them dinner.

 

And if you, Jenny, start an inclusive homeschool group in my area I'll be there. :)

[OH_Homeschooler]

I do not cultivate close friendships with those that believe differently as I do. This would undermine my faith.

:)

 

This makes me sad. Very sad. I have many friends who do not believe as I do. As an example, I am liberal and many of my friends are conservative. I have put my foot in my mouth a few times talking about those darn conservatives, not even aware that they were one of them. You can be friends with people who do not share the same beliefs.

 

And I have not become any less liberal since becoming friends with these people. I have, however, learned to respect their point of view and learn about their way of thinking. It has been an educational experience to say the least.

 

Please try to take my analogy and learn from it. If you believe that befriending people who do not share your faith would cause your own faith to be undermined, my thought is not "wow, she takes her faith seriously!" but rather, "wow, her faith must not be very solid if she's afraid that talking to someone about it would cause it to lessen."

[Jenny in Atl]

 

I do not cultivate close friendships with those that believe differently as I do. This would undermine my faith.

:)

 

This seems to say to me that you have little or weak faith. That just by being around others who believe differently, would somehow steal your beliefs?

 

I have had a number of friends who were deeply religious. So far I have yet to become a conservative Jew, a Baptist, a Catholic, a Mormon, a Muslim, or a Buddhist. I guess I just don't understand this mind set.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Jenny in Atl
Forgot one friend... :-(

[Jill- OK]

I agree that is better, but I guess I have a preference for speaking in positive terms, rather than defining people by what they aren't.

 

For example, we tend to refer to ourselves as homeschoolers or home educators, rather than "non-schoolers." I refer to myself as a vegan, rather than "non-meat-eater." Non-Christians may or may not be "believers" in the sense of being religious, but they are many things other than "not Christian."

 

...I'm totally with you on the "non-believers" thing; just because someone doesn't believe in Christ, doesn't mean they believe in nothing. But if you're not a Christian..."Non-Christian" is an accurate statement. "Vegan" is an ideal, something that has a certain culture built around it. There's not a blanket, single word for every stripe of person who isn't a Christian. ("Secular" doesn't even apply, sometimes).

 

I mean, if it's a sensitive topic for you, I can understand being a little more defensive about it...but I would encourage you not to look for offense in a place where it's likely not intended. (Said in a friendly way...no judgement, etc.)

 

As far as the OP...why only Christian centered activities? I mean, we attend church, I want my kids to know other Christians, and have true, regular fellowship with them...but we decide our activities for kids based on interests.

 

Musical theatre classes (held by a local theatre...and if THAT doesn't give kids a broader perspective and open up some discussion in your home, lol, I don't know what will ;-)...indoor rock climbing...guitar lessons...tumbling...all of those things bring us into contact with a wide array of folk.

 

And neighbors...our kids' friends were mostly neighborhood kids, the last place we lived...they meet children at the park...I mean, if you're seeking out Christian activities, then of course you're going to end up meeting/hanging out with mostly Christians. (Some things we get involved in are Christian in nature, but honestly...sometimes it's because they're the only options, when it comes to homeschool activities, not because I'm choosing it. Is that part of what's limiting your choices?)

 

As for proselytizing...of course, when I develop a relationship with someone (or even if I don't, and just know them nominally), I think about their salvation. I mean...if I had a friend who had a different belief system than mine, that was held as the only way to a positive afterlife...I'd start to wonder if said friend didn't eventually try and convince me, KWIM? :001_smile:

 

So, yes, I look at relationships with those who don't share my faith as opportunities, but if it doesn't happen...then I still learn from them, I still enjoy their company. I do reserve a certain type of fellowship just for other Christians (and I believe that's biblical), but honestly...certain cyber-friends that don't believe as I do have turned out to be wonderful buddies who are great sources of moral support.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Jill, OK

[Jenny in Florida]

...I'm totally with you on the "non-believers" thing; just because someone doesn't believe in Christ, doesn't mean they believe in nothing. But if you're not a Christian..."Non-Christian" is an accurate statement. "Vegan" is an ideal, something that has a certain culture built around it. There's not a blanket, single word for every stripe of person who isn't a Christian. ("Secular" doesn't even apply, sometimes).

 

I mean, if it's a sensitive topic for you, I can understand being a little more defensive about it...but I would encourage you not to look for offense in a place where it's likely not intended. (Said in a friendly way...no judgement, etc.)

 

Oh, I'm not looking for offense, just trying to help present the other viewpoint. I have definitely felt insulted by some of the more religious folks on this board, but not by the ones participating--very respectfully--in this thread.

 

And, no, "secular" doesn't really describe me, either. I use "secular" curricula (mostly), because it doesn't teach any specific religion, but I don't consider myself a "secular" person.

 

I guess I don't see what's wrong with "people who believe differently." That covers and includes everyone.

[nmoira]

 

This has just convicted me so much and so I ask, how do you cultivate relationships with nonbelievers?? How do we do that? To be honest, I’m not sure how. But I’m praying. If any of you have any ideas, then let me know.

I think a good way to start is to set aside the question of Christian or non-Christian altogether, simply lifting the restrictions you've set for yourself (however unwittingly). I for one wouldn't appreciate being sought out specifically because I am an "unbeliever," but neither am I uncomfortable working side-by-side with Christians. Volunteer at your local school or Head Start, soup kitchen, hospital, museum, or other secular agency. If you are looking for more casual social opportunities and do any crafts see if there are any groups (often they meet only once a month) outside your church. Your local library might be able to hook you up with a reading group. Hang out at the park. Do you have homeschool park days in the summer?

[Lovedtodeath]

 

This seems to say to me that you have little or weak faith.

It means that I listen to the scriptures instead of the reasoning of men.

[Jenny in Florida]

Musical theatre classes (held by a local theatre...and if THAT doesn't give kids a broader perspective and open up some discussion in your home, lol, I don't know what will.

 

And, as the mom of two theatre geeks, I just have to say "tee-hee" to this comment. Theatre folks are . . . interesting. Even my infidel daughter has had some uncomfortable moments backstage.

[ccmom]

How do we know? Most of Jesus' actions in his lifetime are not documented in the Bible. We really have a view of a very small portion of his life.

 

 

 

I think if you think those who aren't Christians are "bad associations" or unwise or lawless, then no, you probably don't want to associate closely with them. Of course, those who aren't Christians probably wouldn't want to associate with someone who views them like that.

 

The trouble is, most people seem to only come to this conclusion by assumptions or gossip. Gossip is poison and seems to prevail, unfortunately. Many people will follow the herd to maintain their friendship connections and to fit in, even if this means not taking the high road and following a true Christ-like path. It's very sad, because how can you know how someone thinks without taking the time to even get to know them? Doesn't God give us strength when we ask for it? Are Christians so afraid that they will change their minds or their beliefs by widening their circle? Why not give the benefit of the doubt until there is a true reason to believe the negative? This really puzzles me. I was raised in a Christian home and was never taught to turn people away or treat them badly.

[Lovedtodeath]

I never said to turn people away. I said "close friendships". I am really wishing that I had not posted at all.

[choirfarm]

I think a good way to start is to set aside the question of Christian or non-Christian altogether, simply lifting the restrictions you've set for yourself (however unwittingly). I for one wouldn't appreciate being sought out specifically because I am an "unbeliever," but neither am I uncomfortable working side-by-side with Christians. Volunteer at your local school or Head Start, soup kitchen, hospital, museum, or other secular agency. If you are looking for more casual social opportunities and do any crafts see if there are any groups (often they meet only once a month) outside your church. Your local library might be able to hook you up with a reading group. Hang out at the park. Do you have homeschool park days in the summer?

 

Well, actually I am in the midst of getting out of most activities I am in. I don't know if you have seen my other posts, but just trying to wrap my brain about homeschooling a 9th grader, 7th grader and 1st grader, take care of house and fifty acres, taking care of my dad who is disabled and has bladder cancer and probably lung cancer... My days are pretty full. I'm keeping church choir/praise team because it ministers to me as well as an outlet for ministering to others. But I will be praying about doing Helping Hands next year.. There are many trips to Ethiopia scheduled for next year. I'm just not sure where to put my energy.

[Jill- OK]

And, as the mom of two theatre geeks, I just have to say "tee-hee" to this comment. Theatre folks are . . . interesting. Even my infidel daughter has had some uncomfortable moments backstage.

 

:D

[Lovedtodeath]

Sigh.

Galations 6:10 "Let us work what is good toward all." This means that we do not exclude people, turn them away, ignore them, judge them, gossip about them, treat them badly.

 

1 Cor 15:33 "Bad associations spoil useful habits." Proverbs 13:20 "He that is walking with wise persons will become wise."

This to me, says that others actions and beliefs can and will influence our own.

 

2 Tim 3:5 "and from these turn away." Rev 18:4 "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins." This is talking about people who "have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power".

 

2 Cor 6:14,15 "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?..." Unbelievers will not have the same laws as someone who follows the laws set forth in the scripture.

[Jenny in Florida]

I never said to turn people away. I said "close friendships". I am really wishing that I had not posted at all.

 

Oh, please don't feel that way! That's exactly how I was made to feel after participating in the other conversation earlier this week, and I would never, never want anyone else to walk away feeling as wounded as I felt.

 

I understand your position. I agree that it's perfectly reasonable and healthy to form our closest friendships with the people with whom we share our most heart-felt values and beliefs. As long as we can all be cordial and respectful and open to learning from each other, I don't think there's anything wrong with your approach.

[Nestof3]

I forgot to mention one of my favorite things to do. Once a month, local ladies from the WTM forum and/or method meet at a local Barnes and Noble. We are a mixture of different style, religions, etc. etc. I look forward to it every month. I love seeing how everyone homeschools, learning about their families, and so forth.

 

You should see if you have any WTMers local to you. :D

[Jill- OK]

I guess I don't see what's wrong with "people who believe differently." That covers and includes everyone.

 

And I use phrases like that a fair amount. ("Those who believe differently", "Those who don't share my particular faith").

 

Along with non-Christian. :-) (When brevity is better).

 

I'm all for consideration and courtesy...I just disagree (good-naturedly) about the lengths to which you're suggesting it go. That's all.

[Tullia]

Christine,

 

One possibility might be to get involved in local politics because at the local level the usual political categories are often somewhat blurred. You may find yourself agreeing with folks on local matters even when you don't agree on state or national issues. At least that's how it's worked for me.

 

If you do pursue this, all I can say is prepare to be surprised. I have friends who are not Christian, definitely left-of-center politically, who believe wholeheartedly in abstinence with regard to sex ed, and who've stood up to the school bureaucracy in a constructive way. We don't often vote for the same candidates in state or national elections, but that's ok. We enjoy each other's company and sometimes we agree to disagree.

 

Are you spiritually mature enough to accept people as they are, and present yourself in an authentic way too? BTW, I more or less fell into local politics unintentionally, and it just happened that I had an opportunity to meet interesting people who felt safe about sharing their experiences and perceptions of Christians and Christianity with me.

 

Martha

(feel free to send a pm if you'd like to discuss this in more detail; I could say more, but don't want to stir up trouble.)

Edited April 9, 2009 by Martha in NM
clarity

[Heather in Neverland]

Jesus spent time with "unbelievers" in order to spread the word, but no where do I see evidence that he cultivated friendships with them. His friends were his apostles, Martha and Mary... etc. When the rich man expressed interest in following Christ, but refused to sell his belongings in order to do so, Jesus walked away.

 

Gosh, I am really having a hard time putting into words how I feel on this topic. I think that it might be difficult for "those who believe in something other than Christianity" to understand this concept without judging it.

 

Christians are called to fulfill the "Great Commission" which is to "Go and make disciples of all nations". It is our duty (and our privilege) as Christians to spread the Gospel, not just something we feel like we should do. It looks different in everyone's life as some might be called to be a missionary and others might just share their faith with neighbors, etc.

 

Yes, we should treat EVERYONE with love and respect. Everyone from the checkout girl to your neighbor to the ladies on this board. We should help those in need regardless of their beliefs. We should reach out in love to anyone and everyone.

 

And I completely respect those who do NOT want to be proselytized or seen as a conversion opportunity. I have a co-worker who has said "I know my options so I don't need to be witnessed to." I can appreciate that. Although we are called to witness to all that doesn't mean everyone is going to accept our viewpoint. I don't like Christian bounty hunters.:D

 

I don't have a problem being involved in certain activities with "those who believe in something other than Christianity". My kids are in a secular karate class, I work all day in a secular setting as does my dh, etc. However, there is a difference between being kind, loving and respectful to everyone, and cultivating deep, long-lasting friendships with those of a faith other than Christianity. That's where those verses quoted by a PP come in.

 

My brother has this saying, "We are the average of the 5 people closest to us". Face it, whoever is a big part of my life, like my best friends, are going to have an impact in my life. So those people need to be similar in their belief systems.

 

If you are someone who is unsure of your belief and is interested in learning about Christ, even if you don't convert, it is easier to be friends with you as I can share my faith openly which is who I am, not just something I believe. But if you are someone who has told me that you have no interest in the possibility ever, I will still be friendly and respectful but I doubt we will be close, personal friends. This sounds terrible...I'm not a terrible person, honestly. I still don't know if I am explaining this right and I am not trying to offend.

 

Those verses quoted about "lawless" do not mean lawless as in the laws of the land but the laws of God. If you do not believe the same as I do about sin then it will be difficult for to describe how insipid sin is and how easily it can creep into your life even under the guise of an innocent friendship. And "unwise" refers to that fact that the Bible tells us that belief in God is the foundation of wisdom, not that you are stupid.

 

So the whole problem is one of presupposition. We presuppose that the Bible is true and everything else stems from there. If you don't believe that then it might be difficult to understand why we act the way we do and why it is easy to care about someone who believes differently but it is not easy to be close friends with them.

 

I am probably just making this worse but hopefully you all understand my intent. :leaving:

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm just not sure where to put my energy.

Mark 7:10-13; 1 Tim 5:8

[Jill- OK]

My days are pretty full. I'm keeping church choir/praise team because it ministers to me as well as an outlet for ministering to others. But I will be praying about doing Helping Hands next year.. There are many trips to Ethiopia scheduled for next year. I'm just not sure where to put my energy.

 

Instead of looking at this as a 'project'...could it turn into something more integrated into your life, instead? I'm not sure how to word it...just a turn of consciousness? An awareness of a situation?

 

Maybe you can look at people you encounter just within the course of your everyday life a little closer. Show kindness and Christ to the lady at the grocery store, the person behind you in line...that kind of thing.

 

Believe me, I'm not trying to discourage you from looking for new avenues to spread the Good News. I think that's an awesome goal. I just wonder if maybe God isn't putting the desire in your heart to look around a little closer. Maybe cultivate that love that true proselytizing comes from.

 

Just...some rambling thoughts. I'm sorry if it's not helpful.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Jill, OK

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't have a problem being involved in certain activities with "those who believe in something other than Christianity". My kids are in a secular karate class, I work all day in a secular setting as does my dh, etc. However, there is a difference between being kind, loving and respectful to everyone, and cultivating deep, long-lasting friendships with those of a faith other than Christianity. That's where those verses quoted by a PP come in.

 

. . .

 

So the whole problem is one of presupposition. We presuppose that the Bible is true and everything else stems from there. If you don't believe that then it might be difficult to understand why we act the way we do and why it is easy to care about someone who believes differently but it is not easy to be close friends with them.

 

I am probably just making this worse but hopefully you all understand my intent. :leaving:

 

I get it. I truly do. I was trying to say something very similar recently and got pretty beaten up about it. So, I'm not about to pile on here.

 

Thank you for a very thoughtful post.

[Lovedtodeath]

Gosh, I am really having a hard time putting into words how I feel on this topic. I think that it might be difficult for "those who believe in something other than Christianity" to understand this concept without judging it.

 

So the whole problem is one of presupposition. We presuppose that the Bible is true and everything else stems from there. If you don't believe that then it might be difficult to understand why we act the way we do and why it is easy to care about someone who believes differently but it is not easy to be close friends with them.

 

 

Wonderful! Thank you!

[klmama]

OP - I would encourage you to simply open up your life a bit and accept whomever God puts into it. The most loving Christians I know choose to get out into their community. They may just visit with the neighbors, or they may volunteer somewhere. Regardless, they don't go into anything specifically planning to preach the gospel, but they naturally mention their faith because they are real and don't hide who they are. Not everyone is called to preach to the masses, but all Christians are told to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within them. That implies that there is a question asked, KWIM? No one will ask you questions about what makes you tick if they don't interact with you! Be friends with people because you like them. Join groups if you are interested in the topic. You'll meet new people and widen your world a bit. Be real with them. Just be ready to answer if they ask. :001_smile:

[Heather in Neverland]

I get it. I truly do. I was trying to say something very similar recently and got pretty beaten up about it. So, I'm not about to pile on here.

 

Thank you for a very thoughtful post.

 

And FWIW, I did not particpate much in that other thread but I did read it and I knew what you meant on that thread and I am sorry you took so much flack for it. ;) It is hard to help someone understand your POV when their foundational belief system is completely different.

[Nestof3]

Instead of looking at this as a 'project'...could it turn into something more integrated into your life, instead? I'm not sure how to word it...just a turn of consciousness? An awareness of a situation?

 

Maybe you can look at people you encounter just within the course of your everyday life a little closer. Show kindness and Christ to the lady at the grocery store, the person behind you in line...that kind of thing.

 

Believe me, I'm not trying to discourage you from looking for new avenues to spread the Good News. I think that's an awesome goal. I just wonder if maybe God isn't putting the desire in your heart to look around a little closer. Not necessarily befriend people for the purpose of witnessing...but just cultivate that love that true proselytizing comes from.

 

Just...some rambling thoughts. I'm sorry if it's not helpful.

 

That's exactly what I was trying to convey. Despite the fact that I do have a need to correct things when I see something said that contradicts scripture, I do also desire to answer the OP's question -- and I have in a few different posts.

 

I don't really think in terms of who I can win to Christ, though I know the fields are white with harvest. First, I am confident that no one will come to Jesus unless the Father draws him/her. Second, I just look at people as my neighbor -- or at least I try to. I figure if I focus on loving my neighbor, and God's drawing, all will work out fine. Not all will come to the Father -- some will remain offended by Christ. That is just a fact.

 

Could I be better at it all? Definitely. There wouldn't be a commandment to love if it all came naturally. ;)

 

And, about the other thread. I also answered that one. I homeschooled from 4th through 12th without having to use a single Christian resource. I dumped CLE Social Studies b/c it was so boring. That's what I said in the post. Never once was I asked about any resources we used that were not Christian in nature. I just don't see the need to criticize or question why people choose to use what they use.

Edited April 9, 2009 by nestof3

[Jenny in Florida]

And FWIW, I did not particpate much in that other thread but I did read it and I knew what you meant on that thread and I am sorry you took so much flack for it. ;) It is hard to help someone understand your POV when their foundational belief system is completely different.

 

Exactly. The problem seems to creep in when folks just cannot accept that what is foundational for others may be different. I'm at a place in my life where I admire anyone who has identified what is foundational (as long as it isn't harmful to others) and works hard to live by that.

[Jenny in Florida]

ThatNot all will come to the Father -- some will remain offended by Christ. That is just a fact.

 

I appreciate what you're saying. I just have to say that not everyone who identifies as "non-Christian" is "offended" by Jesus. I admire many things about his life and message. It just isn't primary in my belief system.

[Catwoman]

I haven't had time (yet) to read this entire thread, but I think Jenny expressed my sentiments very well in her post on the first page of the thread.

 

I live in a suburban area of a large east coast metropolitan city, and I have to be honest with you -- I have no idea whether or not most of the people I know are "believers" or "non-believers," and I don't think it's any of my business. I would never dream of asking, and I have never had anyone ask me where I go to church, with the exception of a few women in our local Christian homeschool group. I would find it very odd if I met someone new and they asked about my religion.

 

People are nice, honest, and trustworthy, or they're not. I don't care whether or not they are Christians; I care about whether or not they are good people.

 

I guess things are just different where I live, but we know a lot of people, and even our most devout Christian friends seem to be entirely accepting to people of different faiths as well as of those who never discuss what they do or don't believe.

 

One thing that seems pretty universal among our friends, though, is that when someone gets too preachy, we all run the other way. I don't feel it's my place to tell others what to believe, and I don't think it's anyone else's business what my family chooses to believe.

 

I hope I don't sound harsh -- I really don't mean this as a criticism toward people who prefer to remain primarily among those who believe as they do; if it works for you, it's fine with me!

 

Cat

[Nestof3]

I appreciate what you're saying. I just have to say that not everyone who identifies as "non-Christian" is "offended" by Jesus. I admire many things about his life and message. It just isn't primary in my belief system.

 

I'm sorry -- I was actually quoting Jesus, and I should have put that scripture. He said, "Blessed are those who are not offended" and spoke often of how He offended people. I think He is referring to his whole self, including his declaration that He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

 

I know what you mean, though. When we studied Buddhism in history, my boys and I admired many of Siddhartha's sayings. We also marveled that many of them resonated Jesus' own words. Interesting that he also spoke in parables.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm sorry -- I was actually quoting Jesus, and I should have put that scripture. He said, "Blessed are those who are not offended" and spoke often of how He offended people. I think He is referring to his whole self, including his declaration that He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

 

I know what you mean, though. When we studied Buddhism in history, my boys and I admired many of Siddhartha's sayings. We also marveled that many of them resonated Jesus' own words. Interesting that he also spoke in parables.

 

Well, I do think there are common threads in many faiths. The scholar Huston Smith says that all the religious traditions of the world are like arrows being shot into the air: They're all aiming at the same target, but coming from different places and taking different paths to get there.

 

That made a lot of sense to me.

[phathui5]

We hang out with a good mix of people: Christian, Jewish, agnositic, athiest, New-agey... Even though we're Christians, I don't get our groups and activities from church or Christian groups, I find resources in our local community and use them whether they're Christian or not.

[coralloyd]

I haven't read all the posts.

So here are my thoughts. I have had to deal with this in my own life, and here is what I have learned:

 

1. Your children are the first ones that you share the love of Jesus with. If your not doing a good job here, other opportunities probably won't come around.

 

2. Not all of the people that are in Christian activities are Christians (actually very few are in my experience), so you can always be a light where you are at.

 

3. When I ask the Lord to bring people into my life to share Jesus with, He does, if I do not close myself off to others.

 

4. When I am at the park, library, ect... I try to strike up conversations with others. I do this just to meet others, even possibly a new friend :), that God has for me. When I do this I try and invite them to a Mom time group that I lead. In this group we do Bible Study, I make sure to let them know this. Many times women are lonely, and will come even if they are not Christians. This is a safe group where we support each other with prayer and encouragement. This is my main way of sharing the love of Jesus with those who do not have that personal relationship with Him. Maybe you can do something like this also.

 

5.Or you could just get their number, and as you become friends, they will want what you have. Friendship starts with honesty; so never hide the fact that you are a Christian. Don't wait months to tell them, for this is who you are. Come right out and let it be known, without making them feel that they need to be one in order to be your friend.

Edited April 9, 2009 by coralloyd

[JenniferB]

“ Instead of walking toward people who need God’s redemptive love, they step into a mode of no longer wanting anything to do with them. Self-proclaimed followers of Jesus Christ develp an aversion to nonbelievers, going to all lengths to avoid the exact people Christ came to redeem.

 

Christine,

 

As usual, I'm getting into the conversation late, and may not be making any impact on this thread. But, I believe I have a few comments worth mentioning, nevertheless.

 

I was reading the quote that you copied from this book, and it struck me that this author is making a couple of assumptions about Christians on which he bases his entire argument, and I'm not sure if these assumptions are true. First, he assumes that Christians are purposefully avoiding contact with non-Christians. Next, he also assumes that Christians have a dislike for non-Christians, and therefore avoid them.

 

There are other possibilities for why a Christian wife keeps the schedule she keeps for herself and her children other than disliking and avoiding non-Christians. For me personally, I live a secluded life spending 6 days per week in my home, and on the 7th day we venture out to church. I keep this schedule because this is the best way I can accomplish the goals that my husband and I are trying to accomplish. I stay home because we have a lot of work to accomplish here, and I wouldn't be able to accomplish it outside the home. I'm not trying to avoid non-Christians, and I don't have a dislike for non-Christians. I also believe I'm obeying the Bible's directives for a Christian wife and mother. Paul teaches Christians to live a quiet life, and for wives to submit to and love their husbands, and keep a home, and love their children, etc. etc.

 

Jesus did say to make disciples of all nations. He was speaking to his disciples when he said this. This was his specific instructions to his disciples. Those who were converted had their instructions as well, and that was to participate in an orderly church, and to live a quiet and peaceable life, among many other things, which look a lot like most Christian's lives today. There are Christians today who are called to be missionaries, and they do just that, make disciples of the nations. For a Christian who is not a missionary, there are opportunities to share the love of Christ, which can still be accomplished with the schedule example you gave. You are doing that with your father, and I'm sure you share God's love whenever you get the chance.

 

Going hand in hand with the author's assumptions, I want to also take issue with the author's tone of voice toward today's Christians. Where does his disdain come from? Why does he have this hostility toward the typical Christian family's schedule? I get cautious when I hear a speaker or an author who has a tone of dissatisfaction for Christians who are not doing what they think we should be doing. I feel this way about those who speak harshly toward Christian wives who are not keeping the home enough or staying isolated enough as well. Where does their disdain come from?

 

It's hard to take instruction from a teacher or preacher who doesn't have a love of the body of Christ, and you can tell in their tone of voice and their choice of words. That's the feeling I get when I read these quotes that you copied from the book you are reading. It seems like he's disgusted with the typical Christian.

 

Before making any life changing decisions to try to incorporate this author's vision of an ideal Christian life, I would agree with the others who said to pray, and see what God brings your way. Trust Him that He already has brought into your life what He wants you to be up to. Trust Him also to bring about other things that He wants you to do when He sees fit. Avoid being motivated by guilt. Avoid any teaching that will try to take your focus off of what's right in front of you to do, your husband, your children, and your father. Look at reality and that is if you volunteer once in a while at a soup kitchen, you might feel better about yourself, but will you really convert anyone to Christianity? Unless you are a missionary, you may not see many people outside of your immediate family and your immediate sphere of influence become a Christian. Take heart, and have peace that God is in control of His sheep, and His sheep will hear His voice and they will follow Him.

Edited April 9, 2009 by JenniferB

[Catwoman]

Friendship starts with honesty; so never hide the fact that you are a Christian. Don't wait months to tell them, for this is who you are. Come right out and let it be known, without making them feel that they need to be one in order to be your friend.

 

I'm not sure I understand why the subject needs to be brought up at all.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way -- I'm not trying to be rude or to criticize you in any way; I just can't imagine a situation where I met a new person and felt the need to discuss my religious beliefs (or my political beliefs, or anything else that could be considered personal or controversial.) When I meet new people, I tend toward small talk and "neutral" subjects, and I gradually share more as we get to know each other better.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be mean -- I am honestly very curious about this, because it's so different from the way the people here tend to behave.

 

Thanks!

 

Cat

[Audrey]

I do have very strong ethical beliefs, I just believe in one less god than you.

 

Same here. You stated that very well. :001_smile:

[TXMomof4]

OP - I would encourage you to simply open up your life a bit and accept whomever God puts into it. The most loving Christians I know choose to get out into their community. They may just visit with the neighbors, or they may volunteer somewhere. Regardless, they don't go into anything specifically planning to preach the gospel, but they naturally mention their faith because they are real and don't hide who they are. Not everyone is called to preach to the masses, but all Christians are told to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within them. That implies that there is a question asked, KWIM? No one will ask you questions about what makes you tick if they don't interact with you! Be friends with people because you like them. Join groups if you are interested in the topic. You'll meet new people and widen your world a bit. Be real with them. Just be ready to answer if they ask. :001_smile:

 

Amen! The Bible says they'll know we are Christians by our love.

[heart'sjoy]

I've made use of a prayer journal during some seasons of my life. I would write down a name of a new acquaintance and an idea of what to pray for from our casual conversations. Twice God has grown a real friendship. One is 9 years and still growing.

 

It always amazes me that the friendship that grows is usually the most unexpected one.

 

A prayer journal let me focused on others and my own family. Also just praying, "God show me how to love this person as they are and as how you will be changing them."

[KidsHappen]

I would never dream of asking, and I have never had anyone ask me where I go to church, with the exception of a few women in our local Christian homeschool group. I would find it very odd if I met someone new and they asked about my religion.Cat

 

Well, I can tell that you don't live in TN. "What church do you go to?" frequently comes up in your very first conversation with a person. Many places in TX are much the same. In UT they just come right out and ask you if you are Mormon or gentile. I would imagine Jewish people are quite confused by this question. :001_huh:

[KidsHappen]

I agree that is better, but I guess I have a preference for speaking in positive terms, rather than defining people by what they aren't.

 

For example, we tend to refer to ourselves as homeschoolers or home educators, rather than "non-schoolers." I refer to myself as a vegan, rather than "non-meat-eater." Non-Christians may or may not be "believers" in the sense of being religious, but they are many things other than "not Christian."

 

 

Oh, I agree that this is a great philosophy but when whatever-it-is-that-you-are doesn't have a label it is sometimes just quicker and easier to go with a label that states what you are not. I rarely fall into any groups that have labels and it takes a really long time to explain what it is that I am. ;)

[Catwoman]

Well, I can tell that you don't live in TN.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

You're right -- I don't! I live in the northeast.

 

Cat