contact with unbelievers

[Lovedtodeath]

I edited the post to make the meaning more clear, we cross-posted. I really need to use the preview feature instead of submitting and then editing, which I do to every post, no kidding.

[Spy Car]

I edited the post to make the meaning more clear, we cross-posted. I really need to use the preview feature instead of submitting and then editing, which I do to every post, no kidding.

 

OK, I read the amended post, and I've got to tell you (as the closest thing your going to get to a Jew on Shabbat, during Passover) that a Jew reading that Christians go around calling them "unbelievers" would cause bruised feelings.

 

I can't believe that isn't obvious.

 

Bill

[Lovedtodeath]

infidel ( ) n. Offensive. An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.

 

Wow. I never knew the meaning of the word infidel.

[Spy Car]

I do not cultivate close friendships with those that believe differently as I do. This would undermine my faith.

 

 

I've got a "friend receipt" that says other-wise :D:D:D

 

Bill (proud* to be your friend :001_smile:)

 

* unless pride is a vice [in which case substitute happy]. Happy is OK, right? :lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

LOL! I didn't say how "close" we are.

 

What is all the fuss about vices and deadly sins anyway? It was never emphasized much to me.

 

Carmen, who is currently being a slothful internet addict instead of working.

[Spy Car]

LOL! I didn't say how "close" we are.

 

What is all the fuss about vices and deadly sins anyway? It was never emphasized much to me.

 

Carmen, who is currently being a slothful internet addict instead of working.

 

BFFs :lol:

 

Goodnight Carmen :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Aloha2U]

...but I just wanted to point out that Jesus was also very direct at times, cutting right to the issue -- such as, "You have had five husbands, and the one you are with now is not your husband." I just think we have to be careful to remember that he was in such perfect fellowship with the Father that he could do nothing unless the Father was doing it, and the approach varied according to the need of the person.

 

:iagree: and add this disclaimer: Although I may not possess the gentleness of others on this board, my following response is meant lovingly.

 

One thing I might suggest, though, is to stop referring to other people as "unbelievers" or "nonbelievers." The truth is that there are lots of people who may not believe what you believe, but do believe something. And to refer to them with those words is kind of insulting.

 

I do understand that, from the conservative Christian view, theirs is the only true belief, but I always thought humility was part of the package. And I think that most of us who are on the other side of the fence would appreciate a little respect.

 

With respect, those who do not accept and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who have chosen to reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, are in fact "unbelievers" or "nonbelievers"... a Christian's humility has really nothing to do with it. Although a "believer" is saved from their sin, they are still sinners just as a "nonbeliever."

 

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) Sin is sin - quantity is not an issue.

 

However, for a "nonbeliever" sin equals death - eternity separated from God. I submit that the "package" you referred to is the gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the "humility" you also referred to is that one must humble themselves before almighty God and admit to being a sinner who is bound for hell - again, an eternity separated from God. The Good News is that God Loves You and it is this love that Christian's can share with "unbelievers"...

 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

 

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ... he was buried, ... he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." (I Corinthians 15:3-4)

 

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

 

Although not all Christians set the best example of God's love (myself included), it is easier to blame Christians for the choice that an "unbeliever" makes, than to deal with ones own heart condition. The word of God is true and right and good, whether one believes it or not. Where do you want to spend eternity... with or without God? The Bible (God's word) states...

 

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" (John 14:6)

 

"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)

 

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." (John 1:12)

 

Jesus said... "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" (John 10:10)

 

Everyone has a decision to make and everyone has to deal with their decision. There is no middle of the road or sitting on the fence... you're either for Jesus or against him. I submit that perhaps the real issue is not one of insult or disrespect, but rather, a convicted heart.

 

For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

 

You can trust in Jesus!

[Lovedtodeath]

I have to respectfully say that I disagree with the above.

[Osmosis Mom]

Gosh, this is why I love my religion so much (yes, you may throw stones now); I believe it to be the Truth (as God tells me it is), but He also tells me to not judge and to be humble, because any one of us might go astray right before dying. Nothing is guaranteed; you gotta work for it right 'till the end.

 

I do believe in Jesus and in the Creator of the Old and New Testaments, but no, I don't believe Jesus ever said he was god-ly. So, that's the huge difference.

 

I have never taught my kids to sub-categorize people and I think people doing that is doing Peace a favor. I once hung out with a *Christian* hs'er who misspoke in front of me, saying she and dh accepted, but did not respect some co-worker's difference in choice. That pretty much summed things up for me and how many people feel. I think it is such a shame to not hang out with different kinds of people, respectfully. It doesn't have to infringe on your own beliefs or make insecure kids (at least it shouldn't).

 

 

 

:iagree: and add this disclaimer: Although I may not possess the gentleness of others on this board, my following response is meant lovingly.

 

 

 

With respect, those who do not accept and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who have chosen to reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, are in fact "unbelievers" or "nonbelievers"... a Christian's humility has really nothing to do with it. Although a "believer" is saved from their sin, they are still sinners just as a "nonbeliever."

 

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) Sin is sin - quantity is not an issue.

 

However, for a "nonbeliever" sin equals death - eternity separated from God. I submit that the "package" you referred to is the gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the "humility" you also referred to is that one must humble themselves before almighty God and admit to being a sinner who is bound for hell - again, an eternity separated from God. The Good News is that God Loves You and it is this love that Christian's can share with "unbelievers"...

 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

 

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ... he was buried, ... he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." (I Corinthians 15:3-4)

 

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

 

Although not all Christians set the best example of God's love (myself included), it is easier to blame Christians for the choice that an "unbeliever" makes, than to deal with ones own heart condition. The word of God is true and right and good, whether one believes it or not. Where do you want to spend eternity... with or without God? The Bible (God's word) states...

 

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" (John 14:6)

 

"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)

 

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." (John 1:12)

 

Jesus said... "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" (John 10:10)

 

Everyone has a decision to make and everyone has to deal with their decision. There is no middle of the road or sitting on the fence... you're either for Jesus or against him. I submit that perhaps the real issue is not one of insult or disrespect, but rather, a convicted heart.

 

For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

 

You can trust in Jesus!

[Lovedtodeath]

but He also tells me to not judge and to be humble, because any one of us might go astray right before dying. Nothing is guaranteed; you gotta work for it right 'till the end.

I believe that too.:iagree:

[Rosie_0801]

With respect, those who do not accept and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who have chosen to reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, are in fact "unbelievers" or "nonbelievers"...

 

From a Christian point of view, yeah. This particular issue has already been discussed on this thread, so lets not go back there. Remember you're a non-believer too, from the point of view of everyone of another religion, and you'd rather be called Christian than a non-believer of another faith.

 

There is no middle of the road or sitting on the fence... you're either for Jesus or against him. I submit that perhaps the real issue is not one of insult or disrespect, but rather, a convicted heart.

 

 

With all respect for your convicted heart, you are incorrect. Go read this thread and you'll find evidence to the contrary.

 

 

Rosie

[Lovedtodeath]

 

From a Christian point of view, yeah. This particular issue has already been discussed on this thread, so lets not go back there. Remember you're a non-believer too, from the point of view of everyone of another religion, and you'd rather be called Christian than a non-believer of another faith.

I actually, really don't think it would bother me. You are a vegan, I eat meat with gusto... call me an unbeliever. You are a Buddhist or a Taoist and I am not... by all means if you are speaking about me to other Buddhists or Taoists feel free to call me an unbeliever.

[sarahli]

I know what you mean, though. When we studied Buddhism in history, my boys and I admired many of Siddhartha's sayings. We also marveled that many of them resonated Jesus' own words. Interesting that he also spoke in parables.

 

Actually many of the pagan gods are shockingly similar.

 

KRISHNA - INDIA: Krishna was born while his foster-father Nanda was in the city to pay his tax to the king. His nativity heralded by a star, Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki in a cave, which at the time of his birth was miraculously illuminated. The cow-herds adored his birth. King Kansa sought the life of the Indian Christ by ordering the massacre of all male children born during the same night at He. Krishna traveled widely, performing miracles -- raising the dead, healing lepers, the deaf and the blind. The crucified Krishna is pictured on the cross with arms extended. Pierced by an arrow while hanging on the cross, Krishna died, but descended into Hell from which He rose again on the third day and ascended into Heaven. (The Gospel of Nicodemus tells of Jesus' descent into Hell.) He will return on the last day to judge the quick and the dead. Krishna is the second person of the Hindu trinity.

 

OSIRIS – EGYPT: He came to fulfill the law. Called "KRST," the "Anointed One." Born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave / manger, with his birth announced by a star and attended by three wise men. Earthly father named "Seb" (translates to "Joseph.") At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple and at 30 he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years. Osiris was baptized in the river Iarutana -- the river Jordan -- by "Anup the Baptizer," who was beheaded. (Anup translates to John.) He performed miracles, exorcised demons, raised El-Osiris from the dead. Walked on water and was betrayed by Typhon, crucified between two thieves on the 17th day of the month of Athyr. Buried in a tomb from which he arose on the third day (19th Athyr) and was resurrected. His suffering, death, and resurrection celebrated each year by His disciples on the Vernal Equinox -- Easter. Called "The Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "god's Anointed Son,' the "Son of Man," the "Word made Flesh," the "word of truth." Expected to reign a thousand years.

 

 

 

 

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

 

 

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristianity.html. There are many more. It was quite disappointing when I found this out.

[Lovedtodeath]

Actually many of the pagan gods are shockingly similar.

 

http://jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristianity.html. There are many more. It was quite disappointing when I found this out.

 

2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even (A)Satan disguises himself as an (B)angel of light.

 

Rev 12: 9And the great (D)dragon was thrown down, the (E)serpent of old who is called the devil and (F)Satan, who (G)deceives the whole world; he was (H)thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

[Rosie_0801]

I actually, really don't think it would bother me. You are a vegan, I eat meat with gusto... call me an unbeliever. You are a Buddhist or a Taoist and I am not... by all means if you are speaking about me to other Buddhists or Taoists feel free to call me an unbeliever.

 

Doesn't really bother me either, but in a conversation between people of different faiths, the term "non-believer" gets hard to follow. For ease of reading in this thread, "non Christian" is a better term.

 

:)

Rosie

[Jenny in Florida]

Although not all Christians set the best example of God's love (myself included), it is easier to blame Christians for the choice that an "unbeliever" makes, than to deal with ones own heart condition. The word of God is true and right and good, whether one believes it or not. Where do you want to spend eternity... with or without God?

 

But, see, my heart is just fine. And, while I'm not firmly convinced there is an "eternity" for individuals, I could never have faith in a god that would not accept me there because I chose to follow my heart and mind instead of a specific set of rules (that not even all of his follows agree on, anyway).

 

Everyone has a decision to make and everyone has to deal with their decision. There is no middle of the road or sitting on the fence... you're either for Jesus or against him. I submit that perhaps the real issue is not one of insult or disrespect, but rather, a convicted heart.

 

I disagree. I admire and respect Jesus. I just don't submit to any of the organized religions that operate in his name. And he's not the only religious teacher I admire. I'm not "against" him, and to insist that this is an either/or choice is a pretty simplistic view of the world (and the other humans with whom we share it).

 

And my heart IS convicted. It just happens to disagree with yours.

 

You can trust in Jesus!

 

Yep, no proselytizing here . . .

 

I choose to trust that God gave me a heart and a mind for a reason and that I am expected to use them. I trust what they tell me.

 

I also fully respect your right to believe differently and wish that was reciprocated.

[Haiku]

I have read the comments about serving people of other beliefs and being the salt and light to them. It still seems to come down to a stealth conversion type of thing, because the comments seem to all include something about letting god do the work of convincing someone. I still see that as proselytizing or an attempt at conversion.

 

As a member of a minority religion, I have no illusions that lots and lots of people will suddenly convert to my religion. I do not serve others with the idea that my actions will inspire them to choose my faith or that some other supernatural force will influence them to do so. I do service for others because I believe that it is the right thing to do to try to make the world a better place for every inhabitant, and honestly, I think that idea isn't even a religious one. It's a human one.

 

I think it's great if one does service in the name of their religion, as long as there is not expectation that there will be any type of religious influence.

 

Tara

[KarenNC]

His suffering, death, and resurrection celebrated each year by His disciples on the Vernal Equinox -- Easter.

 

The Christian religious holiday of Easter is not the Vernal Equinox, nor is it now or ever has been a religious celebration of the Vernal Equinox in the context of Christianity. The Vernal Equinox is an astronomical event that happens on March 21/22. Easter (the religious holiday celebrated by Christians) ranges from March 22 to April 25 in the Western Christian tradition. http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhelpdesk/qt/whyeasterchange.htm. Certainly there have been celebrations around the time of Easter that *were* actual religious celebrations of the Equinox by other religions and certainly some of those have accrued to the Christian religious celebration of Easter in various cultures in various ways as cultural rather than worship activities (what we in the US know is primarily from Germanic cultures, others are different). This doesn't mean that there are not those that still celebrate the Vernal Equinox as a religious holiday (I do), but it is not confused as Easter.

 

Personally, I don't know enough about the current scholarship on Osiris and Krishna to evaluate whether the claims are legitimate or not. It would require a lot more research on my part.

 

I would take all of this website's information (as I would anything purporting to debunk anything else) with a large grain of salt and a lot of checking on his sources. Sometimes coincidences are meaningful, sometimes coincidences are simply coincidences, sometimes things only look related on the surface (Easter is not from the name of Ishtar, for instance, as is often claimed) and sometimes things are just flat misinformation or poor interpretation. This goes both ways, btw. I have seen as many problematic claims on the side of those looking to find support for Christianity everywhere.

 

1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).

 

Again, I offer something from someone whose scholarship I respect who disagrees with this (and he is definitely not a Christian). Included are specific references to specific works by Mithraic scholars

http://www.ceisiwrserith.com/mith/whatmithisnt.htm

 

He also has a nice one on what Mithraism is if one is interested

http://www.ceisiwrserith.com/mith/whatismith.htm

 

Basically, apply the same skepticism to the claims of J. D. Stone as you would the claims of Christianity and hold them to the same standards of scholarship for historical accuracy.

Edited April 11, 2009 by KarenNC

[3littlekeets]

My Catholic Grade School required I memorize this poem. I did and I've tried to live it, too. For me, it's never been about believing in "THE" diety, but acting with respect to all that has been created -- however it may have come to be.

 

Abou Ben Adam, by Leigh Hunt

 

Abou Ben Adam (may his tribe increase!)

awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight of his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

an Angel, writing in a book of of gold.

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adam bold,

And to the presence in the room he said:

“What writest thou?†The vision raised its head,

And, with a look made of all sweet accord,

Answered, “The names of those who love the Lord.â€

“And is mine one?†said Abou, “Nay, not so,â€

Replied the Angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerfully still, and said, “I pray thee, then,

Write me as one who loves his fellow men.â€

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It appeared in a great awakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,

And lo! Ben Adam’s name led all the rest.

[Nestof3]

It's fine for you to believe what you believe. But you might not take kindly to being called an "infidel" for your beliefs, correct?

 

Bill

 

Actually, Bill, I would have no problem if a person of another faith called me an unbeliever -- I would assume he or she was referring to the faith which that person holds to.

 

Similarly, if I were in a room watching a seance (okay -- just try to imagine this), and I laughed at it, the persons who believe that seances have significance would rightfully call me an "unbeliever," and I would concur.

Edited April 11, 2009 by nestof3

[Nestof3]

Wow. I never knew the meaning of the word infidel.

 

Well, that is the conotation these days, but is literally unfaithful from the Latin -- the same as the Greek word Jesus used in the gospels.

[Nestof3]

I agree with everything you have written -- how could I not? It is the Word of God.

 

Humility is indeed a trait to put on -- Jesus himself was humble but also called people unbelievers. It is not a put-down, an insult, it is a word spoken by the man without sin -- it is a fact. I don't have a spirit of insulting at all when I say it, and most unbelievers are quite willing to say that they do not believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life -- just as eager as I am to say I am not a believer from the perspective of another man's religion.

 

:iagree: and add this disclaimer: Although I may not possess the gentleness of others on this board, my following response is meant lovingly.

 

 

 

With respect, those who do not accept and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who have chosen to reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, are in fact "unbelievers" or "nonbelievers"... a Christian's humility has really nothing to do with it. Although a "believer" is saved from their sin, they are still sinners just as a "nonbeliever."

 

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) Sin is sin - quantity is not an issue.

 

However, for a "nonbeliever" sin equals death - eternity separated from God. I submit that the "package" you referred to is the gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the "humility" you also referred to is that one must humble themselves before almighty God and admit to being a sinner who is bound for hell - again, an eternity separated from God. The Good News is that God Loves You and it is this love that Christian's can share with "unbelievers"...

 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

 

"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ... he was buried, ... he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." (I Corinthians 15:3-4)

 

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

 

Although not all Christians set the best example of God's love (myself included), it is easier to blame Christians for the choice that an "unbeliever" makes, than to deal with ones own heart condition. The word of God is true and right and good, whether one believes it or not. Where do you want to spend eternity... with or without God? The Bible (God's word) states...

 

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" (John 14:6)

 

"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)

 

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." (John 1:12)

 

Jesus said... "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" (John 10:10)

 

Everyone has a decision to make and everyone has to deal with their decision. There is no middle of the road or sitting on the fence... you're either for Jesus or against him. I submit that perhaps the real issue is not one of insult or disrespect, but rather, a convicted heart.

 

For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

 

You can trust in Jesus!

[Nestof3]

I have read the comments about serving people of other beliefs and being the salt and light to them. It still seems to come down to a stealth conversion type of thing, because the comments seem to all include something about letting god do the work of convincing someone. I still see that as proselytizing or an attempt at conversion.

 

As a member of a minority religion, I have no illusions that lots and lots of people will suddenly convert to my religion. I do not serve others with the idea that my actions will inspire them to choose my faith or that some other supernatural force will influence them to do so. I do service for others because I believe that it is the right thing to do to try to make the world a better place for every inhabitant, and honestly, I think that idea isn't even a religious one. It's a human one.

 

I think it's great if one does service in the name of their religion, as long as there is not expectation that there will be any type of religious influence.

 

Tara

 

Ah, but Christians -- Christ followers -- are commanded to preach (and yes, St. Francis of Assisi's quote is cute, and I agree with the sentiment) and use words. Jesus himself used actions and words.

 

Now, do I do nice things just to "win" someone to Christ? By all means, no. I don't manipulate. But, telling others the good news IS something required by Christ followers.

 

Romans 10: 14-17

 

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

 

So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[LaxMom]

Doesn't really bother me either, but in a conversation between people of different faiths, the term "non-believer" gets hard to follow. For ease of reading in this thread, "non Christian" is a better term.

 

:)

Rosie

 

I agree (as another non Christian). I'm fine with being defined by what I'm not in this context.

 

To further expand on one of Rosie's other points, and to answer the original question, it seems to me that, as others have pointed out, you should simply live your life. If the opportunity to get to know people outside the circles you generally travel presents itself, great.

 

As a homeschooler, I do know people whose children attend public and private schools. I don't fear or isolate myself from families with different educational views, but I wouldn't start in on an intentional quest to meet "schoolers", either. That would be strange. ;)

 

I hope you find the path that is right for you at this time.

 

Peace,

Angela

Edited April 11, 2009 by MyCrazyHouse

[HeathenMom]

With all due respect, it's been my experience among non-Christians that while they "know about" Christianity, they are clueless as what Christianity really IS. They tend to have some warped understanding of what it is that compels a Christian and tend to write off most proselytizing as being the victim of some spiritual "project" or charity case.

 

 

 

i actually come at this issue with a different worldview than i've seen here on the board. i mourn for all of the organic, indigenous spiritualities of a multitude of people that have been forcibly destroyed by 'soul winning'.

 

not only did the proselytising Christians destroy the organic religion of Europe using torture and fear...they also destroyed as many cultural artifacts as they could get their hands on simply because they were contrary to their religious dogma.

 

to me, this is reprehensible! of course it is in the past, and most soul-winners nowadays are converting in 'a spirit of love' but it still smacks of elitism and a 'my way or the highway' mentality. and fear is still a huge motivating factor.

 

just for the record, i had a very good Christian experience when i was younger. however, i could not be a Christian and be intellectually honest with myself...and i felt the gods of my ancestors calling in my blood.

[Lovedtodeath]

Although not all Christians set the best example of God's love (myself included), it is easier to blame Christians for the choice that an "unbeliever" makes, than to deal with ones own heart condition. The word of God is true and right and good, whether one believes it or not. Where do you want to spend eternity... with or without God? The Bible (God's word) states...

What I disagree with in this is a point of view. We do not know why someone does not believe. We are not able to judge another person's heart condition. nor do we know if someone is condemned or saved.

 

Why would Jesus stop the Jews from stoning a woman for adultery? Wasn't she aware of the choice she was making? She was a member of God's chosen people just as they were. She knew the law and had an opportunity to commune with God.

 

1 Cor 10:12

[Lovedtodeath]

i actually come at this issue with a different worldview than i've seen here on the board. i mourn for all of the organic, indigenous spiritualities of a multitude of people that have been forcibly destroyed by 'soul winning'.

 

not only did the proselytising Christians destroy the organic religion of Europe using torture and fear...they also destroyed as many cultural artifacts as they could get their hands on simply because they were contrary to their religious dogma.

 

I am just sick that so many who do not follow the example of Jesus and his Father have used and continue to use the term "Christian".

 

Do we not understand that this may be one reason we can find so many "unbelievers"?

 

I look forward to the resurrection of these indigenous people. I want to wrap them up in love.

[ClassicMom]

I really feel bad for the OP. She was reaching out and made it clear that this was a Christian post. She had an honest question and while she may not have chosen the "perfect" words, she was showing a pure love of wanting to save souls. That's it. Finding a way for her ministry in life with small children under foot and many,many activities keeping her busy.

 

This has turned into a huge debate on the terms and beliefs and very few have actually tried to answer her question. It's like anyone with different beliefs saw this post and just started jumping on it.

 

As Christians, we know what the Great Commission is. We know the conviction we know the desire, the tears for those who are ___________.

(Fill in the word since I don't want to start a debate there).

 

But we also are filled with the Holy Spirit and are indwelled with a certain knowledge when reading Scripture that those who have not accepted Christ just don't understand. Quoting scripture to someone that doesn't "know" Christ, well, you can do it until you are blue in the face. This debate could go on forever.

 

To the original OP, I truly am sorry that you weren't able to get more heartfelt answers from those who understood what you were trying to ask.:grouphug:

[Jenny in Atl]

I am just sick that so many who do not follow the example of Jesus and his Father have used and continue to use the term "Christian".

 

Do we not understand that this may be one reason we can find so many "unbelievers"?

 

I look forward to the resurrection of these indigenous people. I want to wrap them up in love.

 

I don't believe that the Christian faith is alone in this. History is riddled with and continues to be filled with people who use their "faith" as a weapon against others; whether it be with actual weapons, deeds, or words.

 

I also think many, like myself, can't believe in ideas/faith/traditions that come from a time when man knew and understood so little about the natural world. If religions could be "living" and change with the times, then I think more might cleave to their gifts.

[HeathenMom]

I also think many, like myself, can't believe in ideas/faith/traditions that come from a time when man knew and understood so little about the natural world. If religions could be "living" and change with the times, then I think more might cleave to their gifts.

 

i think mankind knew plenty about the natural world. ancient man didn't have knowledge in the same scientific mindset that we do, but they were more attuned to the Earth and her cycles than we are today. it is arrogant to think in the vast history of this planet that we (modern man) are alone in our knowledge and intelligence. many, many ancient secrets have been lost.

[admin]

You have strayed waaay off topic.thread closed.