Gasp and choke. College tuition...

[*LC]

 

Okay. You're not paying more than you would have had he gone to a state school. You feel your good planning resulted in good options. You see the advantages to this choice. Why the concern, then? Prices will of course be higher in another 5 or 10 years, but presumably, the grants and scholarships will still be there and the ability to choose a school that charges an arm and a leg will still exist.

My bottom line is that I don't want to support that kind of ridiculousness, regardless of where the money comes from.

 

Tulanes fees:

 

Freshman ResidentUpper-Class ResidentCommuterTuition & Fees$38,664 $38,664 $38,664 Room$5,680 $6,210 $1,530 Board$3,550 $3,690 $1,100 Books$1,200* $1,200* $1,200* TransportationVariable Variable $670 Miscellaneous $936 $936 $936 TOTAL$50,200 + transportation $50,700 + transportation $44,150

[Ria]

Honestly, I think colleges are going to price themselves right out of the market. A major change will occur in how people are educated for jobs. Online schools are going to become more and more popular. More apprentice types of learning will become available. Basically, it will in many ways go back to what it was like years ago (with the exception of online courses). In the meanwhile, more students will start taking advantage of the community college for their first two years. I'm not sure it will be a bad thing. What colleges are doing now in ways of fees and education is ridiculous.

 

Two things:

 

1. The whole online degree thing? I suspect that employers are not going to want to employ these people. There are too many variables in online education. I honestly think that the brick-and-mortar graduates are going to have a distinct advantage over online grads. In addition, there are lots of degrees that are not, nor will they ever be, available online.

 

2. Many degrees simply do not allow for two years at the community college and then a transfer to a 4-year school. Engineering is one such degree, but there are others. The student who wishes to go to med, dental, vet, or pharmacy school needs to attend a 4-year school. It's all well and good to say, "the solution is 2 years at the community college" but in reality this is far from the case for many degree programs.

 

Ria

[Nestof3]

Engineering is one such degree, but there are others.

 

I am quite certain that one can go from Tidewater Community College to Old Dominion University while pursuing an engineering degree. Virginia has great community college programs.

 

College could be more affordable if you were allowed to just study the subjects you were majoring in without being required to be "well-rounded" with two years' worth of classes to well-round you. I could well-round myself with much less expense.

[Nestof3]

whatever the price, I think it's a necessary piece of paper

 

Shhh -- don't tell my husband that. He's just an uneducated, non-degree holding, hard-working owner of a lawn maintenance company who has never relied on anyone else for anything financially related. And, because of his company, our eldest has been able to save almost $40,000 for his future while working with him.

[Jane in NC]

I am quite certain that one can go from Tidewater Community College to Old Dominion University while pursuing an engineering degree. Virginia has great community college programs.

 

College could be more affordable if you were allowed to just study the subjects you were majoring in without being required to be "well-rounded" with two years' worth of classes to well-round you. I could well-round myself with much less expense.

 

Here is the problem with the CCs where I live: they may have courses like Multivarible Calculus, Differential Equations and Calculus-based Physics in their catalogs, but the courses are rarely if ever offered. On occasion they may have a sufficient number of students. Sure, an engineering student could take English and Econ at a CC, but the other core introductory courses for engineering are rarely offered at most CCs. Yours may be different, especially if it serves as a feeder school to a university with an engineering program.

 

When I taught at NCSU (an engineering school) most of the CC transfers had to attend NCSU for three years, not two, to finish an engineering program.

 

I think that a CC can be valuable to an engineering student who wants to check off one of those non-engineering courses (like English or Econ) in the summer or while in high school.

 

My experience and opinion, I know.

 

Jane

Edited February 27, 2009 by Jane in NC
spelling--of course!

[OH Kim]

While waiting for my son to be interviewed at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, I looked at a college guide sitting on the table - and found that Carnegie Mellon had raised their tuition by 25% in two years. That's not even close to keeping up with inflation - that's taking advantage of the bubble and I know who's going to pay for that eventually.

 

I was told by a Harvard MBA that the president of Harvard wrote a scathing (his word) opinion piece about how colleges are jacking up the prices. If anyone knows where to find it, I'd love to read it.

 

Students, flush with loans and credit cards, aren't thinking about the long term cost of their college experience and end up in serious financial trouble that bankruptcy won't help.

[susie in tx]

I realize that the idea of ROTC or military service in general is not an option for some families. But I wanted to throw out the possibility because I often run into families who would have willingly applied if they'd known about the program.

 

My husband went through the Army ROTC program. He had very little debt when he graduated from college. And, he had a commission, which meant that his monthly drill checks were higher. Now, I understand that the commission doesn't come until the degree is conferred, but he received his prior to graduating. In addition, he went to a school during one semester and that helped with finances.

 

It's a great option and one we plan to discuss with our girls when the time comes. We can pay for some college, and hope to pay for more by the time they get there, but I don't want them incurring debt to go to college, if they can help it at all. In fact, I'd rather have them save up money for college and go a couple of years later instead of going right away and being in debt when they get out. My own college debt was not a lot, but it was still a burden.

[katilac]

Many degrees simply do not allow for two years at the community college and then a transfer to a 4-year school. Engineering is one such degree, but there are others. The student who wishes to go to med, dental, vet, or pharmacy school needs to attend a 4-year school. It's all well and good to say, "the solution is 2 years at the community college" but in reality this is far from the case for many degree programs.

 

Ria

 

And it seems that many of you have access to high-quality community colleges - - that's not the case in my area. Community college is mostly a choice for those pursuing and associate degree, or those who aren't ready for university work.

 

Even if the courses are accepted as transfer credits, cc would very much be a last resort choice for us.

[Nestof3]

cc would very much be a last resort choice for us

 

Again, perhaps it varies by state. My brother went to CC, transferred to the University of Va after two years, got his degree. He worked on his masters while employed by Bank of America. He is now one of the Vice Presidents of Banc of America Securities and has people always wanting to hire him.

[katilac]

 

 

Okay. You're not paying more than you would have had he gone to a state school. You feel your good planning resulted in good options. You see the advantages to this choice. Why the concern, then? Prices will of course be higher in another 5 or 10 years, but presumably, the grants and scholarships will still be there and the ability to choose a school that charges an arm and a leg will still exist.

 

My bottom line is that I don't want to support that kind of ridiculousness, regardless of where the money comes from.

 

I think that her concern was for rising costs in the future, not the overall costs for this particular son. Not every good student is going to earn a scholarship.

 

While I certainly agree with keeping debt managable, I also know that, for certain degrees and lines of work, it does matter, very much, what university you attend. And I agree w/JenneinAz's post: the additional cost of certain schools can be worth it for the experience in itself, not as an 'investment' in the future.

 

Andy, y'know, Ria was also just saying "yikes!" to the overall cost, regardless of what portion she/ds is paying. You can think that something is a worthwhile choice while still gasping at the price, yes? I think that my dd's orthodontics are worth the price, but I still go "yikes! can you BELIEVE what we're paying??"

[Kelli in TN]

But I will do everything possible to help my kids find funding for small private schools, or small "colleges" within the larger schools that focus on excellence (engineering school at Tenn Tech would be an example). Having lived through so much mediocrity and scan-tron exams and a culture of whining, incurious children in grown up bodies who eschew the life of the mind and embrace eagerly the life of the party and cheating and doing the bare minimum, I want more for my kids. Not to say that excellence is not available at large state schools -- it is. But I think people have to be selective as to what will serve them best. And all state schools and programs within these schools are NOT created equal.

 

.

 

Some of our small state schools have very good programs within the school, too.

 

We picked a small state school based on the opportunities made available in the particular major that my daughter wants. We were impressed by the fact that one of the leaders in this major spent his life in an actual career in the field and did not come to teaching until he was ready for a second career.

 

And only one private school could touch this state school in terms of financial ease, and that one private school is in grave danger of going bankrupt any minute. So, obviously, we did not want to risk her going down with that ship!!!

 

We picked a state school for it's low cost, excellent dorms (I know, I know, but it was a very big deal to my personal space phobic daughter), excellent poli-sci dept, small class size, small campus size, small town, reasonable distance to home. We are at peace and feel that our daughter will have no problem getting into law school or grad school with this foundation. And law school or grad school will be possible because of the low or no debt she will have. (We are waiting, with fingers crossed, to find out if she will have low debt or no debt!)

 

Just another perspective in the discussion.

[Colleen]

IMO, it's the price a person pays for a "professional" career which brings with it a "professional" paycheque. That solid professional status bring favour with banks, credit, leverage.

 

You need to come to my town where all manner of "non-professionals" are doing far better, financially, than the average white collar Joe or Jane. Based on my experience and that of many people I know, your assumption isn't on target.

[Colleen]

But, what if, as in our case, the cost was the same?

 

I understand what you're saying. Your contribution toward this small private school is essentially the same as what you'd contribute to a state university. That scenario isn't too unusual, that's true. A young man I know currently attends Wheaton, and I wouldn't be surprised if his contribution to the bill (or, more accurately, his parents' contribution) is no different than what would be required at a state school. I imagine in that scenario, my son would go the school of his preference, as yours as done.

 

You seem to be choking over the $25K per year. That's state school price, my friend.

 

Yes, I realize that.

 

While some degrees allow for two years at a community college and then two years at a state university, other degrees do not;one must have the entire four years at a 4-year school.

 

I think it's more a matter of the schools than the degrees. Earlier, for example, you mentioned that an engineering degree requires all four years at 4-year school. That's not the case across the board.

[Colleen]

Some of our small state schools have very good programs within the school, too.

 

That can be true of some not-so-small state schools, too. I think some of the posts in this thread have implied and either/or situation as far as college choice is concerned: Either a huge state university lacking in personality and personal contact, OR a small, cosy, private college. There are of course other realities as well as many nuances within those two extremes.

[Merry]

he didn't qualify for scholarships due to his ACT score not being high enough so he's going to a large state u. while living at home. He eventually ended up majoring in studio art and has had a couple of wonderful art teachers that graduated from the Chicago Institute of Arts. His classes are small. He loves it there now and is being encouraged to go to the Chicago Institute for grad. school. So it's entirely possible to find good teachers even at those large state u's. and be happy there. On the other hand, if you want a well rounded pastor, it's quite frustrating. My other ds wants to go into the ministry but he just can't afford one of those private universities that would provide a great liberal arts education while preparing for the ministry. Too bad. He's going to the Moody Bible Institute which is quite good for the ministry but it lacks the fine arts education that I want for him. I agree with Ria about being alarmed at the rising price of the tuition and I hope that when the bubble bursts, the fallout won't be as bad for the students as for the homeowners in terms of the high student loans and the quality education perhaps being not quite worth the cost.

[HRAAB]

Shhh -- don't tell my husband that. He's just an uneducated, non-degree holding, hard-working owner of a lawn maintenance company who has never relied on anyone else for anything financially related. And, because of his company, our eldest has been able to save almost $40,000 for his future while working with him.

 

:hurray: for your dh.

 

Janet

[Colleen]

Ria was also just saying "yikes!" to the overall cost, regardless of what portion she/ds is paying. You can think that something is a worthwhile choice while still gasping at the price, yes? I think that my dd's orthodontics are worth the price, but I still go "yikes! can you BELIEVE what we're paying??"

 

Very true, and you're right of course. No question, the rising cost of college is a concern. My fear is that more people wll go farther into debt paying for it; my hope is that more people will explore more alternatives ~ and give more consideration to whether or not getting that piece of paper straight out of high school is the best course of action. Then, too, I firmly believe some schools are taking for granted the constant flow of students. When tuition is being jacked up at a rate far beyond that of inflation, something's gotta give ~ and not just on the part of those paying in.

[HRAAB]

Okay. My niece went to the local state university (where both my older dd's are currently attending) to the tune of about $9,000. a year. She graduated with no debt. My friend's dd attended a private college and with scholarships graduated with debt in excess of $55,000. They both got degrees in elem. education. They both were hired by our local school district - same pay - two years ago. Niece has bought a house. Friend's dd is paying off her debt.

 

I realize I am looking at this from an utilitarian point of view, but when we're speaking of over $100,000 for total tuition for a degree, I need to see where the profits are going to be that much greater. Of course, in different fields this might well not be true.

 

Janet

[Colleen]

Oh, I'm well aware of Tulane's outrageous costs. And at that school, there are actually plenty of people who pay a large part of that out-of-pocket. That wasn't true for me, since I came from a blue collar background and received a generous financial aid package and school scholarship. At that stage in my life, I didn't give any thought whatsoever to taking on debt, or the increased hours my father would be putting in at work in order to help out as best he could. I was the first in my family to go to college; my parents were completely uninvolved in my application and selection process; and I received (and, in fairness, sought out) no other help at all.

 

So if you were implying my opinions expressed in this thread aren't in keeping with own undergrad education, you're right. I'm a lot more financially savvy now than I was then.

[Nestof3]

I didn't give any thought whatsoever to taking on debt, or the increased hours my father would be putting in at work in order to help out as best he could. I was the first in my family to go to college; my parents were completely uninvolved in my application and selection process; and I received (and, in fairness, sought out) no other help at all.

 

 

I sound a lot like you in that respect. My Dad just made it clear that we were all going to college. I had no idea (he never told me) that my college tuition was part of the reason he filed bankrupcty. We never knew their financial situation.

 

He has a big hang-up about how much better his life would have been if he had gone to college. He has looked down on my husband through our entire marriage because he's just a laborer. I am very proud of my husband's work ethic, and his dedication and determination to make a living. I am proud of the fact that he would rather do without something than have someone else pay for it. (I'm not talking about poverty issues here -- just the fun stuff in life). I love learning, education, etc. -- but I value hard work and character above absolutely everything else.

 

I don't personally see where my Dad has had it that bad. He has never had to worry about insurance, job security or anything as he was military. We lived in VA for all but the first two years of my life. He has failed to manage his money properly, filed bankruptcy, complains today about people wanting bailouts, and so forth. But, he looks down on my husband.

[Laura Corin]

I have no idea what kind of advantages a person would have over attending another, less expensive school. ( other then smaller classes and proffessors teaching, something we have here in AR anyway) I'd love to know what they are - serious question. Anybody?

 

My sister went to Oxford; I chose to go to a less prestigious university which offered exactly the course I wanted (money was not an issue, as both universities are government supported). I think that my sister had a more valuable time because of the calibre of the other students - so much of what one learns at college is through conversation with one's peers. Her peers were brighter and more interested than mine.

 

The second advantage, which is more obvious, is that the 'Oxford' name on her resume opens doors for her.

 

Laura

[cathmom]

I went to a 4 year state school (not the main campus, so it was smaller)for my senior year in high school, then went to community college and got an AA, and then went back to the same state school and got my BA. Some of my professors at the community college were excellent, much better than at the 4 year school. However, when I applied to grad school for German, Ohio State turned me down despite a 4.0 in German, 3 glowing recommendations, high GRE scores, and graduating with honors. Why? When my dept. chair called to find out, they said that they didn't like that I had done most of my major in my senior year. I figured out later that my transcript also recorded every time I changed my major and I had switched between German and Spanish a couple of times. They may have felt that those 2 factors showed a lack of commitment to German. So, going to community college could affect getting into grad school later.

[alpidarkomama]

This thread is very enlightening.

IMO, it's the price a person pays for a "professional" career which brings with it a "professional" paycheque. That solid professional status bring favour with banks, credit, leverage . . . whatever the price, I think it's a necessary piece of paper.

 

My two cents worth.

 

Tricia

 

I guess if you want favour with banks, credit, and leverage, you won't mind lots of student loan debt either! The only thing we use a loan for is the house, and hopefully not even that for much longer. There are just so many more interesting things to use our money for than for debt service, and there are many alternatives for college education than going deep into debt. We may very well end up having to borrow $ for college, but I will do everything I can to ensure that that is at a minimum and I have a strong desire to protect them from starting off their life in debt. On the other hand, if they want a graduate degree, that will be up to them. :)

[alpidarkomama]

Shhh -- don't tell my husband that. He's just an uneducated, non-degree holding, hard-working owner of a lawn maintenance company who has never relied on anyone else for anything financially related. And, because of his company, our eldest has been able to save almost $40,000 for his future while working with him.

 

:hurray:

[JFSinIL]

He's going to the Moody Bible Institute which is quite good for the ministry but it lacks the fine arts education that I want for him..

 

Still, he can "self-educate" at the Art Institute and other area museums - could he also take a course or two at SAIC/Columbia Collegeor other nearby art schools along with Moody?

[katilac]

 

You need to come to my town where all manner of "non-professionals" are doing far better, financially, than the average white collar Joe or Jane. Based on my experience and that of many people I know, your assumption isn't on target.

 

My town as well (your old college town). Not across the board, of course, but in general? Yes, there are definitely more high paying options in the trades and specialized industries than in classic white collar jobs.

 

My 3 siblings, none of whom went past high school, all beat me hollow as far as paychecks are concerned. I'm still glad I went to college, but also glad I didn't take on much debt.

[Lolly]

We just got a letter from ds's school. The total billed expenses - tuition, room, and board - for next year will be $49,614. I might point out that books are an additional $1000+.

 

One can only wonder what prices will be like when my 12-year old is in college. Shudder. I just don't know how prices can continue to go up and up. It is just insane. I'm very, very concerned.

 

That is all.

 

Ria

 

Two things:

 

1. The whole online degree thing? I suspect that employers are not going to want to employ these people. There are too many variables in online education. I honestly think that the brick-and-mortar graduates are going to have a distinct advantage over online grads. In addition, there are lots of degrees that are not, nor will they ever be, available online.

 

2. Many degrees simply do not allow for two years at the community college and then a transfer to a 4-year school. Engineering is one such degree, but there are others. The student who wishes to go to med, dental, vet, or pharmacy school needs to attend a 4-year school. It's all well and good to say, "the solution is 2 years at the community college" but in reality this is far from the case for many degree programs.

 

Ria

Your original question, which I don't think you actually meant to ask, was about what is going to happen? Can prices keep going up and up and up? My answer was that they cannot. Things will begin to change in how they are done. I don't believe that people are going to be willing or able to pay the tuition that is forecast. I think that the way things are done is going to change.

 

Are all degrees available online? No, nor should they be. But, it is my opinion that more and more will be in response to the tremendous increases in tuition at brick and mortar schools. As far as the brick and mortar having an advantage, that is most likely true right now. But, more and more people are using this option. As it becomes more normal, they will become more equal. Also, many brick and mortar schools also have online options for courses. My state universities do.

 

Many community colleges have reciprocity agreements with 4 year schools now. Do they all? No. Will they eventually? Most likely not. Btw, you can get into medical school after having done your first two years in a community college and transferred into a 4 year. At least, my cousin did. A quick online search found engineering transfer possibilities. More people will start using 2 year colleges for those first credits because they simply cannot afford not to. They may decide on different career paths as a result.

 

I really wasn't looking for a debate here, which is what your reply seemed to be.:glare: I was just stating that I do not feel that college as we know it will continue to exist with the current price increases. It will either be altered in some manner or become publicly funded. Part of the back of my brain is wondering if the price increases are a conspiracy to force society to accept publicly funded college as a step after high school.

[Sweetpeach]

 

You need to come to my town where all manner of "non-professionals" are doing far better, financially, than the average white collar Joe or Jane. Based on my experience and that of many people I know, your assumption isn't on target.

 

Based on "my" experience as we've built our real estate portfolio, I know for certain that we'd not be where we are without my dh holding a professional engineering degree.

 

The average "white collars" are probably "employees" and are undoubtedly being outearned by the business owners or self-employed folks in your town. The truth in our case, without that professional piece of paper, we'd not have the real estate portfolio that we currently possess with the resulting residual income.

 

I'm quite sure my assumption is on target. The "piece of paper" has opened many doors on our journey.

[hitech]

Wow!!! If you can afford it and his heart is set, I would do it too! As long as he took school seriously!!

Suzanne

[Reya]

AY-YI-YI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Our current plan for DS, who's on an accelerated path, is for him to AP/CLEP out of everything he can and take whatever community college classes that can be transferred. Then, if he goes early, like I expect, he'll live at home until he's 18. That should take a bite out of it.

 

But still. SHEESH!

[Reya]

My town as well (your old college town). Not across the board, of course, but in general? Yes, there are definitely more high paying options in the trades and specialized industries than in classic white collar jobs.

 

 

Depends on what you mean by "high paying." To me, three figures is required to meet that definition. Not many blue collar jobs anywhere that fit that description. But your plumber's making more than your librarian (MS Library Science), hands down. :-)

[Reya]

2. Many degrees simply do not allow for two years at the community college and then a transfer to a 4-year school. Engineering is one such degree, but there are others. The student who wishes to go to med, dental, vet, or pharmacy school needs to attend a 4-year school. It's all well and good to say, "the solution is 2 years at the community college" but in reality this is far from the case for many degree programs.

 

 

Wha'? Okay. There are a number of well-regarded engineering schools that allow transfers. Option one: Take all your nontechnical courses at a community college, and just transfer them. Some math is often also accepted. Option two: Enroll at cheaper branch school in a transfer program, do 1-2 years (depending on program) there, and take your transfer for the rest. Depends on where you are....

[FlockOfSillies]

The cover story is an article by Charles Murray (yes, THAT Charles Murray) who says that too many people are going to college. It's an excellent read.

 

Part of the problem is that a college degree has become what a high school diploma used to be. Employers use it as a filtering mechanism for resumes. It's not just because of technology infiltrating the workplace. It has a lot to do with grade inflation and the overall dumbing-down of the educational system as a whole. Now, everyone is being told they must go to college to make the big bucks, even though lots of kids haven't been prepared well for the work. Those kids go to college and never graduate. The only thing they have to show for it is a mountain of debt.

 

Colleges charge exorbitant tuition because they can. Government grants and loans actually make the problem worse. I read somewhere that Harvard's endowment has reached $1 billion. That means they could let in everyone for free if they wanted to.

 

What I'd like to see is a system where you could take a "College GED" -- something that shows employers you have the skills and content knowledge equivalent to a college degree. That way, kids who would rather enter the workplace after high school can prove that they have what it takes to succeed there.

 

My parents took out a loan on their house so I could go to a small private university. In retrospect, I wish they hadn't. I had a good "small school" experience, but looking back, I think it was awfully selfish of me to go to the $12K school instead of applying for the local state university. I did get a President's scholarship for 25% of my tuition, and eventually I qualified for Cal Grants, but I don't think a smart kid really needs a college degree to become qualified for a job in broadcasting. Good vocational training could do the trick. I worked for only a few years before coming home to have kids.

 

 

No question, the rising cost of college is a concern. My fear is that more people wll go farther into debt paying for it; my hope is that more people will explore more alternatives ~ and give more consideration to whether or not getting that piece of paper straight out of high school is the best course of action. Then, too, I firmly believe some schools are taking for granted the constant flow of students. When tuition is being jacked up at a rate far beyond that of inflation, something's gotta give ~ and not just on the part of those paying in.

 

:iagree: When people begin to revolt against the system in large numbers, then things will change.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

The cover story is an article by Charles Murray (yes, THAT Charles Murray) who says that too many people are going to college. It's an excellent read.

 

 

 

If you liked the article, you should read the book.

 

Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing American Schools Back to Reality

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Some of our small state schools have very good programs within the school, too.

 

 

 

I completely agree. Many of the departments within a large university have excellence as the goal, and select their students accordingly. It behooves one to do homework when shopping for schools.

[unsinkable]

If you liked the article, you should read the book.

 

Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing American Schools Back to Reality

 

this is a great book!

[Nestof3]

The "piece of paper" has opened many doors on our journey.

 

I agree. It can certainly open doors, and it is necessary for certain jobs. Our son is going to college because he feels it will help him be more promotable within the police force -- or perhaps he'll end up teaching history.

 

I just don't like it when people claim it is necessary when it is not. I also don't like when people imply (not that it has been done here) that people without a degree are sub-human. My brother told me years ago that he would NEVER marry anyone without a degree. I find that so sad.

 

A few weeks ago, at our house church, we were talking about our emerging adults getting married and providing for families. One of the men said regarding his daughter's future husband (hypothetical here) that he had better not be a pizza driver.

 

I am so glad I wasn't there to hear him say that, because my husband delivered pizzas while he was getting his lawn business started. He has such integrity that when he found out his ex-wife was getting reduced lunches for Aaron (who lived with her at the time), he went to the school to pay for his lunches. The school would not allow him to do it, but he tried.

 

I thought it was wonderful of my husband, who would have qualified for assistance, to "stoop" to delivering pizzas in order to get where he wanted to be. Most of the people at our meeting are on some sort of assistance, but look down on pizza delivery.

 

Go figure.

[Nestof3]

Our current plan for DS, who's on an accelerated path, is for him to AP/CLEP

 

I love CLEPs! Our son, who worked his rear end off while also working through high school academics, passed two CLEP tests and obtained 6 credits for doing so. I'm sure he could have done more had we pushed academics more.

 

Honestly, we want our sons to be able to have a trade to fall back on in case a chosen career doesn't work out. Sure, we have a small house, but we make a good living, can afford health insurance, a new van (which will be paid off this year -- (we've only owned it for one year), have two more years on the house, etc. Our sons are learning work ethic and can save money.

 

I think a trade is a great thing to have in times of trouble.

 

So much of life is about priorities as well as contentment as well.

[Mamagistra]

If you liked the article, you should read the book.

 

Real Education: Four Simple Truths for Bringing American Schools Back to Reality

 

:iagree: Great book.

[FlockOfSillies]

Oooh, I should add this to my wish list at Amazon. Thx!

[5kidsforME]

I agree. It can certainly open doors, and it is necessary for certain jobs. Our son is going to college because he feels it will help him be more promotable within the police force -- or perhaps he'll end up teaching history.

 

I just don't like it when people claim it is necessary when it is not. I also don't like when people imply (not that it has been done here) that people without a degree are sub-human. My brother told me years ago that he would NEVER marry anyone without a degree. I find that so sad.

 

A few weeks ago, at our house church, we were talking about our emerging adults getting married and providing for families. One of the men said regarding his daughter's future husband (hypothetical here) that he had better not be a pizza driver.

 

I am so glad I wasn't there to hear him say that, because my husband delivered pizzas while he was getting his lawn business started. He has such integrity that when he found out his ex-wife was getting reduced lunches for Aaron (who lived with her at the time), he went to the school to pay for his lunches. The school would not allow him to do it, but he tried.

 

I thought it was wonderful of my husband, who would have qualified for assistance, to "stoop" to delivering pizzas in order to get where he wanted to be. Most of the people at our meeting are on some sort of assistance, but look down on pizza delivery.

 

Go figure.

 

So true. The same could be said for McDonalds employees and Wal-Mart employees. People look down on others for not having a job, sitting around doing nothing etc. but then make fun of the McDonalds or Wal-Mart worker. At least they are trying to provide.