So, I'm feeling guilty and need some home schooler perspective....

[KJB]

My kids wanted to sign up for swimming lessons.

 

A friend of mine stopped by today and we were chatting and she mentioned she was signing her daughter up for swimming tonight. I told her that I was signing up three of my children, too. She mentioned that she wasn't sure if they would take my 5 year old for lessons (my other two are 9 and 12) since they prefer older children. The ad I'd seen said lessons would begin at age 5 if a child was registered for school. I told her that my 5 year old was in school, my school, and that he can already swim so it wasn't like he would be afraid of the water.

 

Anyway, we continued talking and she told me she didn't even think they were accepting home schooled kids. At that point, I just figured that she was misinformed.

 

Then, tonight, I went to sign up for lessons. The place was packed and the line incredibly long. I had showed up 45 minutes early and was still probably the 30th person in line. Many many people were not able to register and were turned away.

 

Anyway, while standing in line, I heard (this time from the man in front of me) that home schooled kids weren't allowed to sign up. He didn't know my family was a home schooled family. I also heard that you had to pay cash on the spot for lessons.

 

Originally, I learned about lessons from an ad in the paper. All the ad said was the time of sign up and the requirement that kids be at least 5 years old and registered for school. I took the latter requirement from the context of the ad to mean they didn't want 5 year olds too young for school, but rather they wanted 5 year olds in kindergarten. My son meets this criteria, is old enough for public school kindy, and is enrolled in my school.

 

So....

 

It turned out the cash rumor was false. They took a check without batting an eyelash.

 

None of the literature or paperwork I saw mentioned home schooled kids weren't allowed to sign up. The man in line said he'd heard of the exclusion on the radio. Apparently it had already sparked some controversy when a home school family had questioned the policy. The apparent "reasoning" was that home schooled kids lacked a structured environment and would hinder the other students by being disruptive. Nevertheless, I never heard the information first hand. I never saw anything in print nor was I told anything official about this alleged rule.

 

Anyway, I went ahead and signed my kids up. They took my check. And then, I started talking with a woman who might be the director about the possibility of my 12 year old being on the swim team. She asked my dd's grade, and I told her. Then she told me her child was 12 and asked where my dd went to school.

 

Up until now, I had never heard anyone official, nor had I seen anything in print, that a home schooled child couldn't participate.

 

I told her the name of our home school in lieu of telling her "we home school" as I normally would answer. I purposefully did not admit to our educational choice fearing we'd not be allowed to participate.

 

But after I left, I began to feel badly....If I had it to do over again, I'd just say my usual "we home school" answer and see what happened. As it was, I didn't want to find out that this particular rumor was true.

 

I still don't know for sure if they really wouldn't have accepted us. I don't know that they would have turned us away. I don't even know if I want to know....

 

Of course, it will probably come out once my kids begin lessons that they are home schooled. I may end up finding out the policy "the hard way" and having my kids caught in the middle and sorely disappointed at being kicked out.

 

Maybe I should contact them and find out for sure?? Maybe I should hate them for the dumb policy (if it is indeed their policy) and figure we shouldn't participate in such a closed minded group. Maybe I should let the sleeping dog have his nap until the other shoe drops?? (How's that for mixing metaphors? :D)

 

Sigh....

Edited February 17, 2009 by KJB

[Home'scool]

after 9 years of homeschooling I have learned to be selective in who I tell and when I say we are homeschooled.

 

I now withold the information if it means (a) I am going to have to listen to some ignorant drivel from somebody or (b) it is going to prejudice people against my kids and perhaps exclude them from something.

 

It is better to take a "need to know" approach sometimes.

 

I think you did the right thing.

[GreenKitty]

I think what you did was just fine. Their was nothing stated anywhere to exclude homeschoolers specifically, so I wouldn't worry about it. Also, I teach my kids to say the name of their school, instead of the generic response "we homeschool" as well.

[Night Elf]

What is your state's homeschool law? In Georgia, homeschoolers are registered and attendance taken. I take that to mean they are acknowledged as students. If this organization truly wanted to exclude anyone, they would need to specifically state it up front. I would think you were fine. If people find out during the lessons that your family homeschools and they try to kick you out, question the decision. Let them be the ones to tell you that homeschoolers are excluded and why. If it's truly for disrupting, I'd specifically ask if my kids were anymore disruptive than any of the other kids during the actual lessons. Let their actions speak for themselves.

 

Sure, you fudged the answer a little bit by not saying you are homeschoolers but you could also have that reaction to anyone asking you that question. This person wouldn't know you don't answer that question in the same way every time you asked. If the organization did not specifically ask if your school was public, private or a homeschool, then you have not truly mislead them. You answered all the questions honestly and got a spot in the swimming lessons calendar. I'd say that was fair.

[Mom-ninja.]

Is the program run through a school? I wouldn't even think about it. You paid your money and there was nothing anywhere about not allowing homeschoolers. Besides if there was such a policy it would create a ruckus.

 

I think you interpreted the ad correctly, and that the rumors you heard are just that...rumors based on ignorance.

 

I hope your kids like the lessons.

[K&Rs Mom]

I now withold the information if it means (a) I am going to have to listen to some ignorant drivel from somebody or (b) it is going to prejudice people against my kids and perhaps exclude them from something.

 

It is better to take a "need to know" approach sometimes.

 

I think you did the right thing.

 

:iagree: Sometimes I say "we homeschool," other times I say the name of our homeschool - it depends who is asking and why.

[KJB]

To answer the question about the sponsors of the program: we live overseas and the lessons are offered by a private organization and run for the children of military families. Our home state right now is Alaska, but they are super flexible about home schooling in general and no registration of any kind is required.

 

We have the option of registering with the Dodds schools (and participating part-time) but we do not do this.

 

Thanks for the responses so far. I like them. :)

[happi duck]

Yuk! I hate stuff like this. Some people act like all homeschoolers are disruptive punks and all non-homeschoolers are perfect angels! The fact is, given a group of kids, some will be disruptive, some will be angels (and everything in between)...no matter how they are schooled! Grrr...

 

To me, it sounds like the ad was specifying already kindergarten age. So for example, not a pre-school child who just turned 5 and will start K in the fall. I have the feeling that many people did not understand what the ad meant and so assumed "oh, they must not want homeschoolers".

 

I don't know about other states but in our state we are considered a private school. So here, refusing homeschoolers would be the same as refusing kids from a big private school. For some people who don't understand homeschooling it helps to explain that we are just a small private school.

 

I'm guessing there isn't an official rule against homeschoolers but given the "climate" and other misinformation, IMHO, I think it's fine to just give your school name without any explanations. We use a school name for situations like this where it's just not worth the confusion.

 

Hang in there!

[KJB]

my kids are really well behaved. They won't be the ones causing the disruptions. I'm really lucky to have good kids.

 

Maybe my guys will cause the organization to change their perspective....

 

(if indeed it IS their perspective :D:lol:)

[WTMCassandra]

They go to a very private and exclusive school. ;)

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[KJB]

this stuff, I wouldn't have thought about it again. She would be the first to argue that *my* kids should be the exception. She is a good friend and she likes my kids. She thought she was warning me.

 

I really thought she had the info wrong since she has neither a 5 year old nor a home schooled child.

 

But then old line guy repeated the same story (without knowing I home schooled) and gave me the added details he'd heard from the radio.

 

I agree that it was a rumor, but I'm betting there's some truth in there somewhere. I kind of was coming from the "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" place when I went ahead and registered.

 

Sigh....Why can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:

[elegantlion]

this stuff, I wouldn't have thought about it again. She would be the first to argue that *my* kids should be the exception. She is a good friend and she likes my kids. She thought she was warning me.

 

I really thought she had the info wrong since she has neither a 5 year old nor a home schooled child.

 

But then old line guy repeated the same story (without knowing I home schooled) and gave me the added details he'd heard from the radio.

 

I agree that it was a rumor, but I'm betting there's some truth in there somewhere. I kind of was coming from the "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" place when I went ahead and registered.

 

Sigh....Why can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:

 

Sometimes I tell people my son goes to Wakefield Academy. If they have a perplexed look on their face and say they've never heard of it I say that is the name of our homeschool.

 

I agree you didn't do anything wrong. You didn't lie, you read the rules, and you didn't bow to rumor.

[Sharon H in IL]

I'd have done the exact same thing. My kids in general are neither disruptive nor angelic, and I don't expect them to get kicked out of anything for misbehavior.

 

You paid yer nickel. You should get swim lessons. Q.E.D.

[Ria]

I think your kids will do just great, and impress the heck out of everyone. And then, once the compliments come pouring in, you can casually mention that you homeschool. They'll be in awe! Homeschoolers really are great kids! Who knew?

 

LOL. I'm sure you did just fine. Don't feel guilty. I hope the kids have a great time.

 

Ria

[fivetails]

How can an organization just "not allow" homeschoolers anyway? I've never heard tell of that ( no I'm not talking about things like the Subway contest with the big school equipment prize ;) ) ....I've never seen any kinds of kids lessons (and ours have been in a lot of stuff - swimming, gymnastics, kung fu, choir, soccer, girl guides, beavers,etc) actually have the gumption to try and exclude kids based on being home educated.....and actually, I'd kinda like to see them try it...I can just imagine the ruckus that would come about. :D

[LaxMom]

How can an organization just "not allow" homeschoolers anyway? I've never heard tell of that ( no I'm not talking about things like the Subway contest with the big school equipment prize ;) ) ....I've never seen any kinds of kids lessons (and ours have been in a lot of stuff - swimming, gymnastics, kung fu, choir, soccer, girl guides, beavers,etc) actually have the gumption to try and exclude kids based on being home educated.....and actually, I'd kinda like to see them try it...I can just imagine the ruckus that would come about. :D

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Unless it is a school-based activity, I honestly can't think of a reason that they would stipulate such a thing. I can see them using enrollment in school to as a criterion in lieu of age cut-off. I can even see them using specific school enrollment as a parameter for giving kids without pool access at school priority, given the turnout.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that somebody started this rumor as a way to keep somebody else from signing up, and it just spread from there.

[KJB]

said, on the radio, that home schoolers weren't allowed. I've now heard it again from someone else. They are a private group with private rules. The ladies running the lessons are volunteers; mostly moms of swimmers. They didn't put anything in print, which I was looking out for, but I'm pretty sure they didn't want us. Their appearance on the radio was a question and answer session about the lessons and the team. Of course, it was primarily an advertisement.

 

Why couldn't they not allow home schoolers? It's their show. People vote with their dollar and most kids attend brick and mortar schools and don't care about if the weird home schooled kids (said tongue in cheek, of course) get to participate or not. There were probably 5 times the number of kids wanting lessons versus the number of slots. And, of course, that's *after* scaring all the home schoolers away by their radio broadcast.

 

Home schoolers aren't a special group with special protections against discrimination as far as I know.

Edited February 18, 2009 by KJB

[LaxMom]

Home schoolers aren't a special group with special protections against discrimination as far as I know.

No, we're not. But swimming lessons open to the public for sign-up cannot then exclude certain groups of that public.

 

And, if they really don't want homeschoolers (for whatever reason), wouldn't they be tipped off by a school name that they've never heard of?

[Tap]

Call and ask. Be upbeat and cheerful, to put the person at ease not accusatory.

 

"Hi, this is Jenny, I heard a rumor and decided to call and ask if homeschooled kids are allowed to take the public swim classes? I know the class is full right now but I wanted to know for future classes."

 

If they say 'not allowed' ask why and who is in charge of the decision. If you want to push it further, call them and push for more information. In our area there are public swim classes, that are partially funded by the public school PE program. It is public school dollars, so they only allow public school registered kids. Kids who are homeschoolers, enrolled in a public school program, can take them, because they are technically 'public schoolers'. The decision is only about funding.

 

Don't offer that you have already signed up, or are planning to participate. If he/she asks you any question directly you don't want to answer, just redirect the conversation: say "oh, sorry can you hold on for a moment I have to help my kid"....pause......"sorry about that.... are homeschooled kids allowed?".

 

If they ask any question you don't want to answer, just say "sorry, I will have to call you back, I have a child who really seems to need me right now." and hang up.

 

I wouldn't want to feel uncomfortable while my kids were swimming that someone might discover our secret. It wouldn't be fair for the kids, or you to start and then be kicked out after the fact.

[KJB]

No, we're not. But swimming lessons open to the public for sign-up cannot then exclude certain groups of that public.

 

If they are advertised as not open "for the general public" but rather "only open for children enrolled in a brick and mortar school" then they meet the criteria you set forth. Also, I'm not sure why they can't exclude certain groups. They're not excluding based on race, gender, etc.

 

(BTW, I'd like to think you're right. I'm just not sure. I think they probably can exclude us since they are private and accept no federal or state funding.)

[Danestress]

Unless there is a legal reason that they can't exclude homeschoolers, they are free to do so. I think it would be okay for you to try to persuade them that this isn't a good and fair rule, but it's their organization and they can set the policies they want for whatever reason, even bad reasons.

 

Since you had reason to know that they inteded that the classes be open to kids enrolled in regular school, and they asked what school your children attend, I would have honestly answered that they homeschool. I think otherwise you were hiding the ball.

 

I don't want to make you feel guilty - I don't think it was the worst thing in the world, and I am sure I have done things that were not entirely forthcoming with relevant detail. But with time to reflect, yes, I think the other road would have been the higher one. However, I can also see the otherside - that you didn't actually lie, and I think there are arguments to be made for that side. I just think I would have gone with full disclosure myself.

[KJB]

I totally agree with you. I wish I'd just said we home school.

 

So, knowing my regret, do you think I should go out of my way (an email or phone call) to make clear that my kids are home schooled? What would you do at this point?

[KJB]

Thanks for all the support. I don't know what will happen, but at least my kids won't be caught in the middle if they really aren't wanted.

 

I'll let you all know!

[KJB]

The response email I received from the woman I contacted:

 

"I just got off the phone with the president just to verify this and yes it came up on the radio station. Our concern was that having a younger child who is not used to group instruction being in a group and having troubles with it.

As you are already signed up we will just leave as is and see how things go."

 

So there you go. I feel much better.

 

Thanks for all your opinions.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

The response email I received from the woman I contacted:

 

"I just got off the phone with the president just to verify this and yes it came up on the radio station. Our concern was that having a younger child who is not used to group instruction being in a group and having troubles with it.

As you are already signed up we will just leave as is and see how things go."

 

So there you go. I feel much better.

 

Thanks for all your opinions.

 

I'm so glad that all worked out. Wonderful!

[LaxMom]

Excellent.

[keptwoman]

That sounds like a great outcome!

Hopefully your children will show them that they have nothing to fear from homeschooled children and may lead them to change their policy.

[Mommy22alyns]

The response email I received from the woman I contacted:

 

"I just got off the phone with the president just to verify this and yes it came up on the radio station. Our concern was that having a younger child who is not used to group instruction being in a group and having troubles with it.

As you are already signed up we will just leave as is and see how things go."

 

So there you go. I feel much better.

 

Thanks for all your opinions.

 

 

 

Ahh, much better, and much nicer than just saying "homeschoolers not allowed."

[Reya]

I'm not "lucky" to have good kids. My ADD kiddo is extremely hard to parent. But he's still a VERY well-behaved child. When people talk about "socialization" I laugh, nod to him, and say, "You see him. What do you think?" They usually blink and go, "Hey. He's really good with other kids!" or something to that effect. :-P

[mcconnellboys]

I don't know where you live, but I've never heard of such a ridiculous thing. How on earth can children be excluded from attending swim lessons because of where they attend school? If they exclude homeschoolers, then they can exclude kids who go to ABC school down the road because they don't like something about it. What's that all about? What sort of organization is doing this? A YMCA certainly cannot exclude homeschoolers and I wouldn't think that any private business would try such a thing, either, if they don't want to get sued in the end.....

[mcconnellboys]

Okay, well it seems to me then that if you're a military family, you qualify. If it's for military families, then that's who it's for and it doesn't matter how they obtain their education, which has nothing to do with swimming, anyway.....

[mcconnellboys]

Gee, I feel so much better now that I've finally gotten to this part. I was really upset for you about such a ridiculous thing. I'm so glad this has worked out well for you (and your children)! Hope they have fun at their lessons,

[Cindyg]

I cannot imagine hearing an ad on the radio announcing an activity and then saying, "No homeschoolers, please." I just can't imagine that.

[FlockOfSillies]

Just think -- you'll have a chance to educate some ignorant people on the ability of homeschoolers to function appropriately in group situations. 'Cause, you know, most homeschooled kids have never been to Sunday School, or been on a sports team, or been in an art class. It's just Mom and the four walls all day, lol.

[KJB]

Don't know if anyone remembers this old post.

 

But I thought it fitting to let you all know that we've gone from, "they might not want us" to being asked to join the competitive swim team!

 

Bravo! My kids are really excited and I'm gearing up running them back and forth for swimming three times a week. Ugh. What was I thinking? :001_huh:;)

 

(Oh, and plus!! The swim meets are in really neat places all over Europe!!!)

 

Thanks for everyone's support on this one. I'm glad we took the high road and told them before lessons began that we home school. (They're still a little leery of me and say things like, "They're doing so well with another adult's instruction." Which, of course, is really funny considering the variety of activities and sports my kids are/have been involved in that I couldn't teach to save my life. I just smile and nod.:tongue_smilie:)

[melissel]

Don't know if anyone remembers this old post.

 

But I thought it fitting to let you all know that we've gone from, "they might not want us" to being asked to join the competitive swim team!

 

Bravo! My kids are really excited and I'm gearing up running them back and forth for swimming three times a week. Ugh. What was I thinking? :001_huh:;)

 

(Oh, and plus!! The swim meets are in really neat places all over Europe!!!)

 

Thanks for everyone's support on this one. I'm glad we took the high road and told them before lessons began that we home school. (They're still a little leery of me and say things like, "They're doing so well with another adult's instruction." Which, of course, is really funny considering the variety of activities and sports my kids are/have been involved in that I couldn't teach to save my life. I just smile and nod.:tongue_smilie:)

 

You know, I just read that whole thread without realizing it was old, but WHAT a great outcome! I'm glad your kids had an opportunity to break down a barrier. What a relief for you, I'm sure :D

[elegantlion]

Don't know if anyone remembers this old post.

 

But I thought it fitting to let you all know that we've gone from, "they might not want us" to being asked to join the competitive swim team!

 

Bravo! My kids are really excited and I'm gearing up running them back and forth for swimming three times a week. Ugh. What was I thinking? :001_huh:;)

 

(Oh, and plus!! The swim meets are in really neat places all over Europe!!!)

 

Thanks for everyone's support on this one. I'm glad we took the high road and told them before lessons began that we home school. (They're still a little leery of me and say things like, "They're doing so well with another adult's instruction." Which, of course, is really funny considering the variety of activities and sports my kids are/have been involved in that I couldn't teach to save my life. I just smile and nod.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Supermom, crushing stereotypes one by one. Good for you, great for your kids. :)

[Mary in VA]

Your family is showing this group what homeschoolers are REALLY like! Instead of just believing the myths about those weird homeschoolers, the group will now have real, well-behaved, and strong swiming :001_smile: homeschoolers in mind when the topic of homeschooling comes up!

 

Mary

[chaik76]

Don't know if anyone remembers this old post.

 

But I thought it fitting to let you all know that we've gone from, "they might not want us" to being asked to join the competitive swim team!

 

Bravo! My kids are really excited and I'm gearing up running them back and forth for swimming three times a week. Ugh. What was I thinking? :001_huh:;)

 

(Oh, and plus!! The swim meets are in really neat places all over Europe!!!)

 

Thanks for everyone's support on this one. I'm glad we took the high road and told them before lessons began that we home school. (They're still a little leery of me and say things like, "They're doing so well with another adult's instruction." Which, of course, is really funny considering the variety of activities and sports my kids are/have been involved in that I couldn't teach to save my life. I just smile and nod.:tongue_smilie:)

Cool!

[Lolly]

Don't know if anyone remembers this old post.

 

But I thought it fitting to let you all know that we've gone from, "they might not want us" to being asked to join the competitive swim team!

 

Bravo! My kids are really excited and I'm gearing up running them back and forth for swimming three times a week. Ugh. What was I thinking? :001_huh:;)

 

(Oh, and plus!! The swim meets are in really neat places all over Europe!!!)

 

Thanks for everyone's support on this one. I'm glad we took the high road and told them before lessons began that we home school. (They're still a little leery of me and say things like, "They're doing so well with another adult's instruction." Which, of course, is really funny considering the variety of activities and sports my kids are/have been involved in that I couldn't teach to save my life. I just smile and nod.:tongue_smilie:)

 

Hooray! That is wonderful. Sounds really cool to be able to swim all over Europe.

 

 

An aside, my kids had their swim banquet last night. The superlative awards (hardest worker, most improved, overall best example of what we want team members to be) went disproportionately to homeschooled kids on the team. I didn't find it surprising, but it was kind of funny.