S/O of who is Edgar Allen Poe? Don't we all have gaps?

[unsinkable]

I know I do.

 

I was in chorus from 5th-12th grades and I still asked my dd's first piano teacher, "How many keys in an octave?" I also took Latin.

 

As soon as the words were out of my mouth, I was mortified. I should have known. I should have figured it out by the word "octave." But I didn't know and I didn't think about it before I asked.

 

It is one of the more cringe-worthy moments in my life.

[lionfamily1999]

I did not understand the signs of greater than/less than until I reached pre-algebra. My teacher told me it was an alligator wanting to gobble the big numbers, I love Rondi Wright, he was a wonderful teacher; but imagine the dismay when my class erupted in laughter :(

 

The other day, Andrew came running to dh and me. "Mom! Dad! Did you know that when a minute goes by the numbers on the clock change? It's counting minutes, that's what time is!?!" We didn't laugh, then, but later we were a little entertained by his epiphany.

[Colleen]

I married a man who had never heard of Shakespeare, so far be it from me to mock a postal worker (or customer) for lack of familiarity with Edgar Allen Poe. So I happen to be much more knowledgeable than these people when it comes to literature. They, no doubt, didn't try as 20 year olds to use the washing machine during an electrical outage. Truly, I did just that. And it wasn't merely a mistake on my part. It didn't even occur to me that the washer required power. Yep, I have gaps a-plenty, as do we all.

Edited January 30, 2009 by Colleen

[Colleen]

...to be precise.;)

[Night Elf]

Yes, every person has gaps in their knowledge. it's also true that some people get a boost in thinking they're better educated when happening upon someone's gap!

 

True that!!!

 

And to assume that everyone should know the same things seems like mass educational goals to me. My kids haven't read Edgar Allen Poe yet and I'm not in any particular hurry for them to do so. The only thing I know about EAP is that he wrote a poem called The Raven that made very little sense to me when I read it in high school. The only particular thing I can recall from the poem is that the word 'quoth' was used.

 

Add me to the stupid list. :tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

I know who Poe was, but I didn't have a clue about who that guy on the stamp SpyCar posted.

 

There have been times that I've heard a name of a famous person but had no clue as to what he or she was famous for.

 

I have a bit of book smarts and street sense, but I have big gaps in my social knowledge. I can't make small talk to save my life.

[Carol in Cal.]

Writes a good horror story, lots of demonstrated foreshadowing without a lot of gore.

 

Actually, I'm glad that this came up. I'm going to use "The Cask of Amontillado" to teach foreshadowing and some other literary elements to DD next week. Wasn't planning on it, but it's one of the better examples that I have ever read.

 

So thank you!

[Plaid Dad]

And to assume that everyone should know the same things seems like mass educational goals to me.

 

But is there not a body of knowledge that adults should share in order to be considered educated? You can argue about whether EAP should be part of that body of knowledge, but if there are no common denominators and no knowledge that is of greater or lesser importance, why are we busting our humps to teach our kids the Great Books instead of letting them read manga all day?

 

Knowing a major American author is a matter of cultural literacy. The fact that we all have major or minor gaps doesn't mean that it doesn't matter what we do and don't know. It means that the American educational system is broken and has been for some generations now. Which is why at least some of us are trying to do better at home.

[lionfamily1999]

But is there not a body of knowledge that adults should share in order to be considered educated? You can argue about whether EAP should be part of that body of knowledge, but if there are no common denominators and no knowledge that is of greater or lesser importance, why are we busting our humps to teach our kids the Great Books instead of letting them read manga all day?

 

Knowing a major American author is a matter of cultural literacy. The fact that we all have major or minor gaps doesn't mean that it doesn't matter what we do and don't know. It means that the American educational system is broken and has been for some generations now. Which is why at least some of us are trying to do better at home.

Manga is an example of something that kids in today's culture would look at their peers (and the nearest adults) and throw as much of a tizzy over as some did over the Poe stamp.

 

I do agree, we're busting our bottoms here so our kids do know and enjoy these things. I think the niceness police (of which I am a member) were just trying to open a new thread so we could shake our fingers in peace ;)

[Colleen]

But is there not a body of knowledge that adults should share in order to be considered educated?

 

What I find interested about this argument is that many who support it simultaneously oppose a nationwide curriculum. Of further interest is the fact that the body of knowledge many deem That Which All Should Know just happens to be heavy on the areas of greatest interest to the proponents. Convenient!

 

The fact that we all have major or minor gaps doesn't mean that it doesn't matter what we do and don't know. It means that the American educational system is broken and has been for some generations now.

 

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that. It may mean any many of other things, e.g. that Joe or Jane just doesn't give a rip about topic "X", despite having been exposed to it in school.

[Plaid Dad]

I think the niceness police (of which I am a member) were just trying to open a new thread so we could shake our fingers in peace ;)

 

Carry on, then! :D

[nmoira]

But is there not a body of knowledge that adults should share in order to be considered educated? You can argue about whether EAP should be part of that body of knowledge, but if there are no common denominators and no knowledge that is of greater or lesser importance, why are we busting our humps to teach our kids the Great Books instead of letting them read manga all day?

You are busting your humps because it's important to you, and most of us here share that sentiment. A family full of theoretical scientists might have a very different idea of what would be considered well educated.

 

I recently finished rereading The End of Education by Neil Postman. This book has had more influence on how I structure our homeschool than any other. Postman's thrust is that education must have an end, a point. Being a cog in an economic machine is not an engaging or viable end, at least from the perspective of a young student. We need what he calls a god: a narrative, a context, a place. Education should help provide that, whether the god is a God, the scientific method, the diversity of the American Experiment, or what have you... and preferably more than one. He suggests a handful in the book. Public schools are necessarily somewhat limited as to which gods they can choose, but there are still plenty. Unfortunately as they stand right now, they are largely pointless.

[OnTheBrink]

But is there not a body of knowledge that adults should share in order to be considered educated? You can argue about whether EAP should be part of that body of knowledge, but if there are no common denominators and no knowledge that is of greater or lesser importance, why are we busting our humps to teach our kids the Great Books instead of letting them read manga all day?

 

Knowing a major American author is a matter of cultural literacy. The fact that we all have major or minor gaps doesn't mean that it doesn't matter what we do and don't know. It means that the American educational system is broken and has been for some generations now. Which is why at least some of us are trying to do better at home.

 

:iagree:

[laylamcb]

But is there not a body of knowledge that adults should share in order to be considered educated? You can argue about whether EAP should be part of that body of knowledge, but if there are no common denominators and no knowledge that is of greater or lesser importance, why are we busting our humps to teach our kids the Great Books instead of letting them read manga all day?

 

Knowing a major American author is a matter of cultural literacy. The fact that we all have major or minor gaps doesn't mean that it doesn't matter what we do and don't know. It means that the American educational system is broken and has been for some generations now. Which is why at least some of us are trying to do better at home.

 

In a word, yes. Emphatically.

[Colleen]

Do you support, then, a national curriculum that includes this "body of knowledge"? Or a state-wide curriculum? If so, who should determine what's included in that body of knowledge? If not, how should the average American acquire such knowledge?

[laylamcb]

Snark voluntarily deleted.

Edited January 31, 2009 by laylamcb

[TraceyS/FL]

I married a man who had never heard of Shakespeare, so far be it from me to mock a postal worker (or customer) for lack of familiarity with Edgar Allen Poe. So I happen to be much more knowledgeable than these people when it comes to literature. They, no doubt, didn't try as 20 year olds to use the washing machine during an electrical outage. Truly, I did just that. And it wasn't merely a mistake on my part. It didn't even occur to me that the washer required power. Yep, I have gaps a-plenty, as do we all.

 

OMG Colleen... this so reminds me of the phone call i got from my best friend - she needed help making macaroni and cheese. You know, Kraft from a box.

 

She couldn't figure out why it was so runny...... we went thru the directions on the phone, and it FINALLY dawned on me to ask her. "Ummm, did you drain the macaroni before adding the butter?"

 

"Nope."

 

That will do it every time! LOL!!!

 

But hey, she could show a grand champion sheep, help with lambing, rope anything.... just don't ask her to cook :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't do scary stuff. You can bet i never willingly read EAP. I'd rather get an F.

 

Why? My grandmother let me read The Shining one summer when it came out.... oops. I am basically messed up for life over that move!

[Jennifer in NH]

FWIW, not all of Poe's stuff was scary. I loved "Annabel Lee" That was sad, but not scary.

[Colleen]

Snark voluntarily deleted.

 

That's really kind of you, but I didn't think you were being snarky. You said (I hope you don't mind my repeating it) that people can gain that body of knowledge by reading. And of course, as a reader, I totally agree with you in spirit. But realisitcally, there are a lot of people less privileged than you and I. There are also a whole lot of people whose interests and talents differ from yours, or mine. Not everyone is going to self-educate their entire life via books, kwim? So the question remains, who determines the body of knowledge and how is it transmitted?

[laylamcb]

 

That's really kind of you, but I didn't think you were being snarky. You said (I hope you don't mind my repeating it) that people can gain that body of knowledge by reading. And of course, as a reader, I totally agree with you in spirit. But realisitcally, there are a lot of people less privileged than you and I. There are also a whole lot of people whose interests and talents differ from yours, or mine. Not everyone is going to self-educate their entire life via books, kwim? So the question remains, who determines the body of knowledge and how is it transmitted?

 

Well...I'm typing as I think, which is never a good thing. So bear with me. I just received a link to a list of the 1000 Books You Must Read Before You Die or some such nonsense. It included A Clockwork Orange--gag moi--and didn't include ANY Austen. Need I say more? ;) So I'll readily admit that tastes vary....

 

But. Tonight I was reading Viking Tales to my kids. Next week we'll start D'Aulaire's Greek Myths and then Black Ships Before Troy, The Wanderings of Odysseus, and In Search of a Homeland. I'm reading these to them now (1) because they're just so durn AWESOME and (2) because I want to prep them to read Hesiod and Homer and Vergil themselves when they're older.

 

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. No doubt these weren't the only stories goin' 'round back in the day--but these are the stories that are still goin' 'round. To skip ahead more than a few years, Wuthering Heights has never gone out of print. So although The Canon of Western literature may be debated--Moby Dick, for example, will never be required reading in my home, and though I may require my kids to read something by Faulkner and Hemingway, I won't make them pretend to like it--there is some general sense that Great Books exist. There is some consensus that to be educated, to take part in the great conversation, is to be familiar with that canon to some extent.

 

Does that make any sense? Or does that sound just hopelessly snobbish? Because really--I'm not at all snobby in real life. :D

[Jennifer in NH]

Well...I'm typing as I think, which is never a good thing. So bear with me. I just received a link to a list of the 1000 Books You Must Read Before You Die or some such nonsense. It included A Clockwork Orange--gag moi--and didn't include ANY Austen. Need I say more? ;) So I'll readily admit that tastes vary....

 

But. Tonight I was reading Viking Tales to my kids. Next week we'll start D'Aulaire's Greek Myths and then Black Ships Before Troy, The Wanderings of Odysseus, and In Search of a Homeland. I'm reading these to them now (1) because they're just so durn AWESOME and (2) because I want to prep them to read Hesiod and Homer and Vergil themselves when they're older.

 

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. No doubt these weren't the only stories goin' 'round back in the day--but these are the stories that are still goin' 'round. To skip ahead more than a few years, Wuthering Heights has never gone out of print. So although The Canon of Western literature may be debated--Moby Dick, for example, will never be required reading in my home, and though I may require my kids to read something by Faulkner and Hemingway, I won't make them pretend to like it--there is some general sense that Great Books exist. There is some consensus that to be educated, to take part in the great conversation, is to be familiar with that canon to some extent.

 

Does that make any sense? Or does that sound just hopelessly snobbish? Because really--I'm not at all snobby in real life. :D

I think anyone who follows an educational path ala The Well Trained Mind would agree.;)

[nmoira]

There is some consensus that to be educated, to take part in the great conversation, is to be familiar with that canon to some extent.

 

Does that make any sense? Or does that sound just hopelessly snobbish? Because really--I'm not at all snobby in real life. :D

But how often do you yourself participate in this great conversation, and with whom? [i'm talking generally, take it rhetorically if you wish.] I've always wondered about who it is having this great conversation and what have they actually done that is more important than, say, Colleen's husband? I'm thinking out loud and addressing to a large extent to my own doubts here... and am not trying to pick on anybody.

[Karenciavo]

But how often do you yourself participate in this great conversation, and with whom? [i'm talking generally, take it rhetorically if you wish.] I've always wondered about who it is having this great conversation and what have they actually done that is more important than, say, Colleen's husband? I'm thinking out loud and addressing to a large extent to my own doubts here... and am not trying to pick on anybody.

 

You participate in The Great Conversation with other people, some live, some dead. Reading Dante is an example of participating in The Great Conversation with dead people.

[Guest]

But how often do you yourself participate in this great conversation, and with whom? [i'm talking generally, take it rhetorically if you wish.] I've always wondered about who it is having this great conversation and what have they actually done that is more important than, say, Colleen's husband? I'm thinking out loud and addressing to a large extent to my own doubts here... and am not trying to pick on anybody.

 

In the short 6 months since I have been introduced to the WTM and immersing myself in literature, I cannot believe how many things "click" now. Watching a TV show, hearing songs, jokes - I never realized how much of things that surround my everyday life comes from classic literature. I think by not participating in that, you miss out so much on a deeper understanding of life.

 

But, to answer the OP, I have more gaps than knowledge. :D

[nmoira]

 

You participate in The Great Conversation with other people, some live, some dead. Reading Dante is an example of participating in The Great Conversation with dead people.

I get that. But that's not participating in the sense of conversing, contributing to a conversation, or society, or a body of knowledge.

[laylamcb]

But how often do you yourself participate in this great conversation, and with whom? [i'm talking generally, take it rhetorically if you wish.] I've always wondered about who it is having this great conversation and what have they actually done that is more important than, say, Colleen's husband? I'm thinking out loud and addressing to a large extent to my own doubts here... and am not trying to pick on anybody.

 

No, I get you. Totally.

 

I've always thought of it more like--again, typing while thinking, not so good for me--these Great Books (whichever one decides they might be) are the repository of the Deep Thoughts of the great thinkers of a culture or of many cultures. So as I'm reading these archives, I'm conversing with the text itself and by extension with the author of the text. I wasn't talking about a kind of a book club conversation, but rather about one's own interaction with the ideas presented in these great works.

 

And just for the record, I didn't mean to cast aspersions on anything that Colleen's husband does. Or reads. Or doesn't read. No aspersions intended. :D

[laylamcb]

I get that. But that's not participating in the sense of conversing, contributing to a conversation, or society, or a body of knowledge.

 

Well, but...even if my participation in the conversation is only to think deeply on these ideas, really ruminate on them, make them my own--or discount them totally and be able to coherently explain why--and then expose my children to them, then I've done my part. I mean, Homer heard these stories from folks--he didn't make them up. Someone somewhere kept these stories and these ideas alive. You know what I mean?

[Karenciavo]

I get that. But that's not participating in the sense of conversing, contributing to a conversation, or society, or a body of knowledge.

 

So are you saying that you believe one can only participate if they add to the canon or actively converse with the author? Or somehow add to the greater good? I don't believe it's ever been understood to mean that, but perhaps I misunderstand you. My understanding is even when I discuss it with my children I am participating, even as I read and mull it over and let it become a part of me I am participating. But maybe I've got it all wrong.

[Zelda]

In a world where everything is equal and there can be no distinction between the educated and the uneducated for fear of hurt feelings, then there can be no standard by which to judge one's level of education. They might as well hand out diplomas with birth certificates.

 

But if one lived in a world where there could be some people who were educated and some people who weren't, in which the people who weren't accepted that they weren't then yes...there would be some body of knowledge that would be required in order to be considered educated.

[nmoira]

 

So are you saying that you believe one can only participate if they add to the canon or actively converse with the author? Or somehow add to the greater good? I don't believe it's ever been understood to mean that, but perhaps I misunderstand you.

That's not what I'm wondering about. We're talking about something a bit bigger in this thread, what should be taught universally? What is does "well educated" mean? I'm just musing as to whether it is desirable or necessary for everyone to participate in the Great Conversation in this limited way. To what end? How much dies with us, and what, if anything, do we leave behind? Just to clarify, I'm not equating "end" with economic utility. I guess it's the idea of "everyone should." Why? Why should everyone read Jane Austen?

[nmoira]

In a world where everything is equal and there can be no distinction between the educated and the uneducated for fear of hurt feelings, then there can be no standard by which to judge one's level of education. They might as well hand out diplomas with birth certificates.

Since in most large US cities at least 1/3 of students don't graduate high school, I'm not sure how this applies in the real world. One can argue that eduction and schooling are not the same thing (and I do), but, call it what you will, this is a very real, and often insurmountable gap.

 

But if one lived in a world where there could be some people who were educated and some people who weren't, in which the people who weren't accepted that they weren't then yes...there would be some body of knowledge that would be required in order to be considered educated.

That doesn't address the fundamental question of what it means to be educated or what should comprise education. Do you think one can be educated but not have a great books education?

[Plaid Dad]

A family full of theoretical scientists might have a very different idea of what would be considered well educated.

 

E. D. Hirsch would argue - and I wholeheartedly agree - that you can make accurate judgments about what 21st-century American need to know before they leave school in order to be considered "educated" in the liberal-education sense and to participate fully as a citizen. His Core Knowledge curriculum is designed to provide exactly that body of knowledge. An adult in the United States who does not recognize the name "Edgar Allen Poe" and have at least some general associations attached to the name, is, in the cultural sense, sub-literate. So is someone who doesn't recognize basic terms and concepts from the natural sciences. Or mathematics. Or history. That knowledge is not limited to "high" cultural, but neither is it limited to the latest product of mass entertainment.

 

In theory, I would have no problem with using Core Knowledge as a universal American public school curriculum provided it was used in its entirety, by adequately trained teachers, as Hirsch and his colleagues intended. However, I doubt it would ever be adopted with those stipulations.

 

I recognize that this thread was not really started to debate the idea of cultural literacy or the importance of Edgar Allen Poe, but to deal with some people's discomfort at the tone of another thread. I do understand that such threads can easily spill over into "God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of men...." I also fully acknowledge that a person can be culturally illiterate and be loving, productive, and even saintly.

 

But this is, after all, a classical homeschooling board, and Poe is a widely taught author in American schools (unlike Robinson Jeffers). Whether you like his writing or cared about literature enough to pay attention in English class is not the point. Not even recognizing his name indicates a failure, either on the part of the individual in question or on the part of the schools he attended, or both. We should be able to call that what it is: at very least a shame and, when you multiply it by all of this man's peers, a scandal.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Plaid Dad
addition

[fivetails]

What does "well educated" mean?

 

That, I think, is a question with many different answers. :)

[Stacy in NJ]

Everyone has gaps. Those that are better educated have fewer. I have many. I'd like my children to have fewer. I wouldn't necessarily expect a postal worker to know or care about Poe.

[Crissy]

That doesn't address the fundamental question of what it means to be educated or what should comprise education. Do you think one can be educated but not have a great books education?

 

 

I often wonder in a similar vein.

If we're talking about contributions made to society, wouldn't my father and his brothers, ironworkers all of them, made at least an equal contribution in the years and expertise given to what we now refer to as the Seattle skyline, as any I could possibly make in reading and discussing a thousand books?

 

I don't mean to discredit those whose work is intellectual, but my father probably hasn't read three books on anybody's 'must read' list and yet his talent and contribution to my fair city is significant.

I encounter people like him on a regular basis. They may not know EAP, but they sure keep our world going 'round.

[Zelda]

Since in most large US cities at least 1/3 of students don't graduate high school, I'm not sure how this applies in the real world. One can argue that eduction and schooling are not the same thing (and I do), but, call it what you will, this is a very real, and often insurmountable gap.

 

That doesn't address the fundamental question of what it means to be educated or what should comprise education. Do you think one can be educated but not have a great books education?

 

I don't understand how the first part relates to what I said.

 

I do not think that one can be educated and not know who Poe was. One may make great contributions to society with no knowledge of Poe but that will never make them educated.

[Barb_]

I often wonder in a similar vein.

If we're talking about contributions made to society, wouldn't my father and his brothers, ironworkers all of them, made at least an equal contribution in the years and expertise given to what we now refer to as the Seattle skyline, as any I could possibly make in reading and discussing a thousand books?

 

I don't mean to discredit those whose work is intellectual, but my father probably hasn't read three books on anybody's 'must read' list and yet his talent and contribution to my fair city is significant.

I encounter people like him on a regular basis. They may not know EAP, but they sure keep our world going 'round.

 

Yes, and I'm not crazy about the threads where we sit around and chuckle about how poorly educated the masses are compared to us. They make me feel squirmy.

 

Barb

[Zelda]

Yes, and I'm not crazy about the threads where we sit around and chuckle about how poorly educated the masses are compared to us. They make me feel squirmy.

 

Barb

 

No, I don't like to laugh at people or judge their worth based upon how educated they are.

 

But I do judge how educated they are by certain standards like whether or not they have at least a passing familiarity with Poe.

[fivetails]

 

I do not think that one can be educated and not know who Poe was. One may make great contributions to society with no knowledge of Poe but that will never make them educated.

 

By your definition of "educated". ;)

[SonshineLearner]

I believe that to become more educated, you must be willing to ask, "Who is....?" I have a decent vocabulary and have read a bit...but when I don't know...I just ask. I really haven't read a ton of poetry, but usually recognize the name of famous Poets. (So, I would have asked what his poetry was like... scary is all I remember about him)

Just like vocabulary. I don't have a total command of the English Language. Just the other day, I had to ask this lady that I know what Autocratic meant. I could have noted to look it up at home...or just be honest. The second time she said it, I just asked...

Yes, I want my children to be more educated than me, but also remember that you can't know everything...You can just keep learning:-)

[Zelda]

By your definition of "educated". ;)

 

Yes, by an objective definition of 'educated' and not some loosey-goosey interpretation of education wherein no one would ever fall outside the definition of educated.

 

Don't worry, I'm a dying breed and the "New Age Feel Gooderies" have won the canon wars. And now you can get a "crocodile in spelling" instead of being judged by some archaic standard that doesn't matter in the real world where no one spells anything anymore anyway. KWIM? TTYL.

[Karenciavo]

I wouldn't necessarily expect a postal worker to know or care about Poe.

 

Hey now, I was a postal worker. I made a lot of money and spent the better part of my day reading. Those were the days.

[Perry]

I agree with Plaid Dad and yes, I would support a national curriculum IF it was Core Knowledge or something similar.

 

But I don't think it's possible, because there is just no way the PTB could ever come to a consensus over what should be taught. It would be more practical to have lots of CK schools available so parents could choose. I don't believe we have a CK school in my entire state. If we had one locally, I would not be homeschooling.

[Jenny in Florida]

Do you support, then, a national curriculum that includes this "body of knowledge"? Or a state-wide curriculum? If so, who should determine what's included in that body of knowledge? If not, how should the average American acquire such knowledge?

 

Okay, I agree absolutely with Plaid Dad. In fact, one of the goals my husband and I discussed when we agreed to give homeschooling a try was that we wanted to make sure our kids had at least a glancing familiarity with the culture and history of their society. And I would argue that Edgar Allan Poe is pretty important to that culture.

 

As for the question of a national curriculum, well (to quote the pediatrician when we consulted him about circumcision), I'm officially wishy-washy. In my ideal world, everyone would have access to a really great quality education that made defining minimums unnecessary. (For what it's worth, I feel the same way about a lot of hot-button political issues: I don't want to see certain things made illegal, but I wish people didn't feel the need to do them.)

 

I know that's not the way of the world, though. So, I don't know what the answer is.

 

I'll tell you what bothered me more than anything else about the exchange that started this whole discussion: It was the fact that neither person, at least according to the way it was related to us, had any clue he/she should have been embarrassed NOT to know Poe. I mean, I'll admit to some gaps in my education, but at least I have the good sense to know they are things I SHOULD know. And when one is brought to my attention, I make it my business to fix it.

 

Maybe I'm just projecting, because I see this kind of thing so often. But it does seem to me that most people I run into are perfectly content to admit--nay, flaunt--their ignorance. And that both saddens and frightens me.

[swellmomma]

nm. I was half asleep and proved how uneducated I really am ;)

Edited February 1, 2009 by swellmomma

[Jenny in Florida]

EAn adult in the United States who does not recognize the name "Edgar Allen Poe" and have at least some general associations attached to the name, is, in the cultural sense, sub-literate. So is someone who doesn't recognize basic terms and concepts from the natural sciences. Or mathematics. Or history. That knowledge is not limited to "high" cultural, but neither is it limited to the latest product of mass entertainment. . . . Not even recognizing his name indicates a failure, either on the part of the individual in question or on the part of the schools he attended, or both. We should be able to call that what it is: at very least a shame and, when you multiply it by all of this man's peers, a scandal.

 

Oh, yay! Why did I even bother posting, when I could have just put in one of those cute smileys with the "I Agree" sign?

[Jenny in Florida]

I encounter people like him on a regular basis. They may not know EAP, but they sure keep our world going 'round.

 

Okay, and I agree. I'm not saying that a person is worth less because he or she doesn't know Poe. But I would argue that the person may have been cheated by not being introduced. And I don't see a single reason why a person cannot read Poe AND build things. And wouldn't his own life be richer for it?

[Colleen]

Don't worry, I'm a dying breed and the "New Age Feel Gooderies" have won the canon wars.

 

Nope, you aren't a dying breed. Many of us like to think we're special (e.g. "a dying breed") because of (fill in the blank with applicable topic), but in truth, we aren't as unique as we'd like to believe.

[Colleen]

Yes, and I'm not crazy about the threads where we sit around and chuckle about how poorly educated the masses are compared to us. They make me feel squirmy.

 

With good reason.

[cathmom]

If so, who should determine what's included in that body of knowledge?

 

I thought that was Susan Wise Bauer! :D