When Young Adults are Negative About Many Things

[Ginevra]

What do you do to counteract that? Or *do* you counteract it at all? Do you just acknowledge the things they say and let them discover the truth/non-truth of those attitudes? FWIW, I remember being exactly like this when I was a YA. 
 

I also remember reading the book “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” in my very early twenties and feeling absolutely revolutionized by just the first habit: Be Proactive. I stopped being so negative (although it was a process and was not instantaneous) and started to realize that whatever things I didn’t like were a reflection of what I chose and allowed in my life. {Please nobody jump on me about stuff outside of our control! I don’t mean “gee, why did you choose to be assaulted on your way to work?”}
 

Anyway. My YA says negative things and I am not sure how to join their reality yet inspire them to see things another way. For example:

YA: “I don’t care about my election ballot; I’m probably not going to vote anyway. Politicians are all liars and I hate the choices.”

Me: “Yeah I think that sometimes too but I vote because I want the right to complain. If you don’t vote I feel like you forfeit your right to complain about who is elected haha.” 
 

There were many more things in the same vein as this. How insurance companies decide what a premium should be - “It’s like car racism!” - and I explain that it is actually statistically driven; it’s not as arbitrary as it seems. 
 

So. What do you do? Or do you do anything? Unfortunately I don’t have a model for what this should be like because my mother thought the answer to all things was to pray about it. I’m kinda winging it. Which is probably an okay approach in the end. But tips are welcome anyway. 

[HomeAgain]

I think sometimes it's best not to try to 'fix'.  I like to probe and question their stance, make them think about it.

"Ok. I wonder what would happen if only a few people voted."

"I wonder why the rates are set that way.  Do you know why they're all different?"

 

I'm not interested in arguing with someone who doesn't know anything, so often just looking at them quizzically or exploring a train of thought that doesn't negate theirs doesn't give them the pushback or shock they seem to be craving.  I don't need to feed it, so I just minimally respond and then drop it.

I just had something come up in my Facebook memories where my young adult and I ended up down an internet journey because of an offhand comment about a "crazy woman" and then finding out how badass she really was.  All because I wondered out loud why she did such a thing in the first place.  It blew our minds.

[Carol in Cal.]

I know it’s wearing but I think that trying to correct it in someone in their early twenties might be overstepping.

I would maybe gently disagree with about one in ten.   

Other than that I’d commiserate.  “Insurance costs are pretty annoying, for sure!”  And maybe once in a great while lend some info on the subject.

One thing that has worked really well for me is nod, smile, and say, “Do you think so?”  That way I am agreeable without literally agreeing.  In some people this makes them stop and think, others not so much, but I’m also always ready to move on after that with a fresh topic.  

[Katy]

I think many people, but especially young people, have a lot of false assumptions about the world. Insurance rates and profits are highly regulated; it’s rare for insurance companies to make any money from the insurance itself at all. Instead they make money from having their reserves in the market. 

Ideas like this, that things or people or regulations are stupid or bad is generally a sign of an uneducated mind. In reality most things are extremely complex and nuanced. If there were a *few* examples of this, I’d correct it if I knew why something is the way it is. And if not, I’d probably point out that most people are not stupid, and that there is probably a very good reason why things are the way they are, and ask them to look into it. 
 

ETA: sorry, interrupted by a child. If it continued I’d say my uneducated minds comment and ask them about if they a handle on their own responsibilities yet. Life is hard. It’s easy to make assumptions about others but difficult to have a handle on all one’s own responsibilities.

Edited April 2 by Katy

[regentrude]

One can have a conversation, but one can't sway a young adult to suddenly be "positive". With some things, they may have a fresh perspective and the way we have been doing things "all along" is actually not the best, and they are right to be frustrated about it. With other things, they are missing life experience and may not be understanding the nuances of an issue.

Btw, when it comes to the presidential elections: with the electoral college, it's true for many people that their vote really does not matter because they are not the majority opinion in their state. And that is indeed extremely frustrating. While the historic genesis of the current system can be understood, it doesn't mean that this is actually the best, fairest, most democratic possibility. 

[regentrude]

56 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

and started to realize that whatever things I didn’t like were a reflection of what I chose and allowed in my life. {Please nobody jump on me about stuff outside of our control! I don’t mean “gee, why did you choose to be assaulted on your way to work?”)

But many of the things that are frustrating for young people ARE outside their control and not something they "allow into their lives". 
They aren't yet as jaded about environmental devastation, climate change, social injustice, gun violence, and war as their elders- because they haven't lived through decades of never-ending bad news and needed to grow a thick skin as a coping mechanism. For them, each problem still IS a problem. That is one of the strengths of any young generation: they see the world with fresh eyes and have not yet been desensitized through the demands of everyday life. It's a good thing, because it is what causes change.

ETA: I have learned much from the young people in my life, and I have come to realize that there are things I should change about my life to live more carefully, with more intentional stewardship of resources, for example.

Edited April 2 by regentrude

[Innisfree]

I’d have a hard time with the election comment, especially. I think in the best possible world, I would want to ask leading questions and get them to think about their assumptions. I’d want to know if they’re basing their comments on actual issues like @regentrude mentioned, or if they’re making sweeping generalizations that don’t correspond to reality (neither candidate is at all better than the other? Really? Not being thrilled with the choices is one thing, but shirking a civic responsibility to make tough choices is another. Better is better.)

In the real world, I don’t always have the time or energy for this. But my goal would be to have an actual conversation, assuming the young adult is interested and willing.

[bolt.]

My current YA doesn't take well to correction of any kind -- not even hints, leading questions, or 'me personally' counter-opinions.

So I keep that stuff to myself. She doesn't have to agree with me about everything, and there's some potential that she's *not* wrong, and I'm the one with rose-tinted positivism in spite of facts.

(I also don't agree that people who don't vote don't have a right to complain. Everybody has the right to feelings, thoughts, opinions, and a voice -- especially in their own family -- whether they choose to be a voter or not.)

[Eos]

Have they always been this way? If not, could it be a symptom of emerging depression? 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, Ginevra said:

  “It’s like car racism!” 

🤣🏎️

[footballmom]

Do you feel like this person has always been a glass half empty person? Or do you feel like they are tip toeing into depression?

I think multiple things can be true at once: Some YA’s can be contrary and believe their parents know nothing. Some YA can be verbalizing things that they haven’t really peeled back and formed a true opinion about. Some YAs may have some negative thinking patterns that are starting to form and it may be an opportune time to try to get them to see an alternate side to consider. My FOO always assumes negative intent. It’s taken a lot of work to challenge my thinking patterns and choose positive intent.

Maybe a heart to heart to see if they are struggling with some blues and if that’s not a factor ask them what role they want you to play when they verbalize some of these negative thoughts.

[Clarita]

I don't think you can ever just make someone more positive. They have to want that for themselves. The being able to be positive no matter how dire and out of your control a situation is comes with a lot of maturity (some adults lack this amount of maturity too).

I don't know if it helps, but the way I approach these types of conversation is to be honest about the reality, what parts they really do have control over and if they really don't. Election is kind of a good example because for me the presidential election pretty much my vote doesn't count. It gets counted but my state is an all or nothing state and is not a swing state. I still vote and my general vote counts because there are a lot of other things on the ballot aside from the presidency. The elections for people who are going to run my town is something I can sway or the measures for my local area. These are important too. 

I have lots of thoughts about this and often I have to hold it back and let people think "I can't change anything." 

[SKL]

I usually say something like "I used to think that too when I was young.  Over time, I came to realize / understand / notice that ____."

It doesn't bug me too much if it's just a gripe about life.  I am more likely to push back if it's a put-down about someone's efforts, if that makes sense.  I do have a kid who just can't say anything nice.  She has always been against anything that wasn't her idea first.  It's not helpful for her or anyone else.  So I will say something like "___ put in a lot of effort into this.  If you have a positive and helpful suggestion, you can politely suggest it, but otherwise, try to find something good to say."

I remember having to train myself to find something good to say, because I was, as a prof put it, "honest - brutally so."  I should probably talk to my kids about this self-training process.  Believe that everyone and everything has some trait that can be praised, and set about finding it.

[Ginevra]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

It doesn't bug me too much if it's just a gripe about life.  I am more likely to push back if it's a put-down about someone's efforts, if that makes sense

It does make sense. These are almost always gripes about life. There is a lot to learn yet about how things actually work (like with the car insurance gripe). 

To those who asked: I would say this person has always been a straight realist and now is more of a negative realist. I don’t think it is clinical depression. 

[fairfarmhand]

I think young adults think life is going to be more fair than it actually turns out. It takes awhile to get used to the fact that it’s not. And to benefit from the “unfair” stuff. Like…I’m a 44 year old woman driving an old auto with no moving violations. Why should my insurance premiums be the same as a 22 year old with several tickets driving an expensive car? It would be “unfair” to me if they were.

[bolt.]

I also question, in general, the universal goodness and/or benefit of "being positive".

Yes, there are lots of situations where positivity makes you both happier and more pro-active. I would venture to say most situations (and the people in them) benefit from positivity.

But that still leaves a lot of situations (and the people in them) that benefit from situation-appropriate resignation, fatalism, giving up, letting go, winding down, strategic withdrawal, rejection, breaking up relationships, ending other things, sarcasm, anger, rage, making a good plan for a bad outcome, etc. Those fairly stoic skills are also good things -- in proportion, in the right situation.

For example, with my dh's chronic illness, I can't imagine the basket case I would be if I had been "positive" (that things would improve around the next corner) for the last 15 years -- when it's clearly degenerative, and my situation is unlikely to change. Yes, "make the best of things" is a form of positivity, but it doesn't work without a firm foundation of flat resignation. Waves of hope and despair are exhausting and depressing. Sometimes the best option is to accept whatever it is that is dystopian about your life -- and let yourself have feelings about it in the safe space of your home and family (if you've got one).

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

I also question, in general, the universal goodness and/or benefit of "being positive".

Yes, there are lots of situations where positivity makes you both happier and more pro-active. I would venture to say most situations (and the people in them) benefit from positivity.

But that still leaves a lot of situations (and the people in them) that benefit from situation-appropriate resignation, fatalism, giving up, letting go, winding down, strategic withdrawal, rejection, breaking up relationships, ending other things, sarcasm, anger, rage, making a good plan for a bad outcome, etc. Those fairly stoic skills are also good things -- in proportion, in the right situation.

For example, with my dh's chronic illness, I can't imagine the basket case I would be if I had been "positive" (that things would improve around the next corner) for the last 15 years -- when it's clearly degenerative, and my situation is unlikely to change. Yes, "make the best of things" is a form of positivity, but it doesn't work without a firm foundation of flat resignation. Waves of hope and despair are exhausting and depressing. Sometimes the best option is to accept whatever it is that is dystopian about your life -- and let yourself have feelings about it in the safe space of your home and family (if you've got one).

So much this.  Toxic positivity can be incredibly harmful.

[forty-two]

17 hours ago, Ginevra said:

I also remember reading the book “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” in my very early twenties and feeling absolutely revolutionized by just the first habit: Be Proactive. I stopped being so negative (although it was a process and was not instantaneous) and started to realize that whatever things I didn’t like were a reflection of what I chose and allowed in my life

I don't see "being positive" and "being proactive" as the same thing; I think you can view a situation quite negatively and yet still be proactive about dealing with it and/or getting oneself out of it.  (I *do* tend to be a "think positive" kind of person, and it's pretty easy for me to just reframe the situation as something I can live with and call it a day - being positive can be a way to *avoid* being proactive, if one isn't careful.)

But yeah, I've got a complainer, and the whole "complain how others suck while refusing to do zip themselves" is really annoying.  I'm one of those annoying devil's advocate types, and I do try to point out reasons why things aren't necessarily as stupid as one might think - things you don't like exist for reasons other than people-not-you are idiots.  When applicable, I repeat what my dad said to me "Different is often just different, not wrong."  I get it, lots of people just want to complain to blow off steam, but when their complaints seem unfair to those they are complaining about, I do put my oar in, and I appreciate when people do the same for me.  Which makes me annoying, probably, lol.

17 hours ago, Ginevra said:

So. What do you do? Or do you do anything? Unfortunately I don’t have a model for what this should be like because my mother thought the answer to all things was to pray about it. I’m kinda winging it. Which is probably an okay approach in the end. But tips are welcome anyway. 

FWIW, I'm coming to appreciate "pray about it" as the answer to all things.  There are so. many. things. outside my control, many of which are quite intolerable.  I very much do approve of taking small actions within my control, to make my little corner of the world better; I do not buy that just because collective action is needed to make a large scale change, that means there's no point to making changes in my own life unless and until a critical mass of people are making the same change.  Examples of what's possible are vital, and it's just seems sensible to test radical changes at the small level before trying to implement them at scale.  

But that said, my actions are no guarantee of anything, humanity's no guarantee of anything - there's nothing and no one who is except for God.  He's either got it, or no one's got it.  And I do believe that God's got it - He's our guarantee of goodness and justice and salvation, that good triumphs in the end.  And that intercessory prayer's a thing - I don't understand it, it's not a magic incantation, but God both commands prayer and acts in light of our prayers.  So, yeah, I don't know what you believe, but the older and more anxious I get, the more I pray - because there's too many problems that need solving that I can't solve, but God can.  If it's worth being upset about, it's worth praying about - it's the kind of proactive we can be about anything and everything, no matter how little else we can do.

[SanDiegoMom]

My 18-year-old who is prone to negativity is still home a little while longer, and I try to just model balanced positivity.  She tends to complain a lot, so I just listen non-judgmentally and then try to change the subject.  I think of things that are positive to talk about that inspire hope, instead of things that belong to doom-scrolling.  I think in general personalities are kind of "set", but also habits of thought patterns play a big role, and while I can't change her, I can try to work on myself and model that in front of her. 

 

[Clemsondana]

I don't have advice, but I don't do well with chronic complaining, either.  I do have some anecdotes that shape my thinking - they may or may not be helpful. 

When I was a teen, I went to a summer music camp and a group of us had an early class.  We were complaining, as teens do, and somebody asked the teacher why he was so upbeat.  He replied that his job was to be there and teach at 8 am, so he could do it happily or unhappily, but either way he'd be doing it, so he'd prefer to be happy.  It was such a small, offhand comment, but it caused a major attitude shift for me. 

I've read a couple of books about the brain and learning in the course of teaching and learning about memory, and how we reinforce memories by repeating them - it's why studying the same material daily for a week helps you to remember it.  So, any negative thought that you repeat over and over becomes more automatically remembered.  That was a wake-up call for my class - who wants to program themselves to automatically think negative thoughts? 

I've got a kid who almost never complains about anything.  This kid isn't complacent, and isn't relentlessly upbeat by nature, but doesn't say negative things very often.  When I asked, kid said 'I don't like to listen to other people complain, so I don't think that anybody wants to listen to me complain, either.'  Kid will share frustrations about things, but that's not really the same as a general attitude of complaint.  

I do think it's helpful to separate complaining from positivity - you don't have to be positive to not make negative comments.  Some people are wired to be upbeat in the face of problems, and despite some people calling it fake or toxic, it really is how they are wired.  Likewise, some people always see potential problems or what can go wrong.  There's a place for both.  But there are also people who complain or make negative comments out of habit...and it's not helpful.  And there are those who complain about everything that they don't understand - with those, I sometimes ask 'How would you handle that?' or something similar, because sometimes people don't have a better idea, they are just annoyed by how something affects them.  Which I understand, but we are all dealing with things that inconvenience us.  Sometimes the complaining is self-centered, and while I can laugh at the occasional self-aware 'Why can't everybody just get out of my way - don't they know I have places to be?' I can get frustrated with people who think that the world would be better if everything was just adjusted to their preferences and priorities since there are always competing interests. 

When my kids were little, I used to tell them that I wasn't a complaints department so I wanted them to suggest solutions.  It was fine to share frustrating or upsetting situations, but for general issues like It's too hot, I'm so tired, Sally is mean, etc, I told them that either something bothered them enough to suggest a change that we could implement, or it wasn't a big enough problem to warrant a lot of complaining.  

I have also seen chronic complaining and negativity become toxic in an organization.  When every suggestion is met with 'that won't work/that's a dumb idea' instead of 'lets see if we can implement/modify/troubleshoot that' people quit trying to help...and then the complainer, stuck with all of the work, complains even more.  I think it probably does the same thing in other situations, but this was so dramatic that I doubt I'll ever forget how bad it can get if the negativity becomes directed at other people and their ideas rather than just life in general.  And, unfortunately, if a habit of complaining about life becomes too ingrained, I don't know that people realize when they are crossing the line and complaining about other people in a harmful way.  

Edited April 3 by Clemsondana

[SKL]

5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think young adults think life is going to be more fair than it actually turns out. It takes awhile to get used to the fact that it’s not. And to benefit from the “unfair” stuff. Like…I’m a 44 year old woman driving an old auto with no moving violations. Why should my insurance premiums be the same as a 22 year old with several tickets driving an expensive car? It would be “unfair” to me if they were.

My kid started complaining about how unfair it is that she is expected to operate at a higher level academically than her sister, who is slightly older.  Fact is, she has at least a 20 point IQ advantage, among others.  I asked her, where's the fairness in the fact that she was born with a higher IQ and without vision problems?  If we want to talk about fairness!  She seemed to understand that.

The fact is that kids who are being raised in the US have a ridiculous number of unearned advantages.  The fact that we can even talk about car insurance when less than 20% of humans own a car!  How exactly do we define fairness?  It's totally unfair that our kids are well-nourished, well-educated, and have so many choices in life.

In cases like the insurance situation, I'd probably say something like:  "The insurance companies have actuaries who specialize in risk-pricing analysis.  I don't know all the ins and outs of it.  If you want to suggest a better way, you'd have to start by learning how they are doing it now.  And remember - they don't have to offer to sell you insurance at all."

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

... And remember - they don't have to offer to sell you insurance at all."

Off topic but: Don't they have to offer insurance to everyone? I thought all businesses were obligated by various anti-discrimination laws to offer a product to an entire population, or not at all. Is insurance exempt?

[Ginevra]

5 hours ago, forty-two said:

don't see "being positive" and "being proactive" as the same thing;

No; I did not mean they are the same thing. Just that, for me, at that age, it helped me realize there were many things I *do* control and that kvetching about the stuff you don’t like is sometimes a way to not solve problems.

Like - just picking a wild example - suppose when I was early 20s, I did not like the coffee my co-worker made in the office break room every day. Let’s say she never rinses the pot, the machine itself dates to the Carter Administration, and she buys discount coffee from Jamesway. I mean, I can actually imagine myself back then, whining (to myself at least) that the office coffee sucks. And then I read the book, thought about “Be Proactive” and realized I was choosing to whine about the yucky coffee rather than: bring my own in a thermos/buy one at Dunkins that I passed every day/bring in my own coffee pot…It made me realize that I was doing nothing to change certain situations, but it was easier to cry about the way it is than to problem-solve (even if sometimes the solution really is acceptance). 

[Ginevra]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

The fact is that kids who are being raised in the US have a ridiculous number of unearned advantages.  The fact that we can even talk about car insurance when less than 20% of humans own a car!  How exactly do we define fairness?  It's totally unfair that our kids are well-nourished, well-educated, and have so many choices in life.

Yup. I did actually say, “Well - you do have a car; not everybody does.” They did agree, “That’s true. I’m glad I have a car.” 

[Ginevra]

29 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Off topic but: Don't they have to offer insurance to everyone? I thought all businesses were obligated by various anti-discrimination laws to offer a product to an entire population, or not at all. Is insurance exempt?

No. Insurance companies can deny coverage and can drop a current customer. (Granted, they can’t drop you *because* you just had an accident they don’t want to cover. But they can drop you after you’ve had an accident when the renewal period comes.) 

If a person can’t get insurance anywhere, due to being a bad risk, they cannot drive. In my state you have to carry minimal liability to drive. 

[kathyl]

23 hours ago, Ginevra said:

What do you do to counteract that? Or *do* you counteract it at all? Do you just acknowledge the things they say and let them discover the truth/non-truth of those attitudes? FWIW, I remember being exactly like this when I was a YA. 
 

I also remember reading the book “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” in my very early twenties and feeling absolutely revolutionized by just the first habit: Be Proactive. I stopped being so negative (although it was a process and was not instantaneous) and started to realize that whatever things I didn’t like were a reflection of what I chose and allowed in my life. {Please nobody jump on me about stuff outside of our control! I don’t mean “gee, why did you choose to be assaulted on your way to work?”}
 

Anyway. My YA says negative things and I am not sure how to join their reality yet inspire them to see things another way. For example:

YA: “I don’t care about my election ballot; I’m probably not going to vote anyway. Politicians are all liars and I hate the choices.”

Me: “Yeah I think that sometimes too but I vote because I want the right to complain. If you don’t vote I feel like you forfeit your right to complain about who is elected haha.” 
 

There were many more things in the same vein as this. How insurance companies decide what a premium should be - “It’s like car racism!” - and I explain that it is actually statistically driven; it’s not as arbitrary as it seems. 
 

So. What do you do? Or do you do anything? Unfortunately I don’t have a model for what this should be like because my mother thought the answer to all things was to pray about it. I’m kinda winging it. Which is probably an okay approach in the end. But tips are welcome anyway. 

One of my grown kids actually said pretty much the above bolded to me when I asked him if he was planning to vote.  I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and said "Oh, OK."  I mean, in my mind, he had his reasons (which he proceeded to expound on 🙄).  They aren't MY reasons, they're very much his - so I just let it be and forgot about it.  And I voted.  😉 

My kids changed their thinking so much as they went through the different stages of growing up and life in general.  I do the same thing in my 60s.  I think that's kind of normal in life.  Things happen and we have to reevaluate how we see things.  

 

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, Ginevra said:

No. Insurance companies can deny coverage and can drop a current customer. (Granted, they can’t drop you *because* you just had an accident they don’t want to cover. But they can drop you after you’ve had an accident when the renewal period comes.) 

If a person can’t get insurance anywhere, due to being a bad risk, they cannot drive. In my state you have to carry minimal liability to drive. 

That's so interesting. US regulations (or lack thereof) are a bit intuitively different from what I'm used to as a Canadian. They seem to be just a touch more pro-business as core decision makers, and less whole-society / government as core decision makers.

I checked my province, and you can't be denied the basic mandatory auto insurance (if you are not seeking it fraudulently etc.), but they can deny you any other insurance product beyond that minimal level. I also assume that they can price you at some pretty epic rates based on being 'a bad risk'... but I bet there's a regulated maximum they would run up against at some point.

[Clarita]

In California you can make a $35,000 cash deposit with the DMV to claim self insurance for the car insurance.

[BusyMom5]

Me- agreeing with your YA about politics 🫠  I say to focus on local elections and ignore the political mud-slinging

I do have one that tends to be negative and want to spew negativity on me via the phone.  Sometimes I listen, other times I just tell her I can't listen to complaints- because that's what they are!  Once I told her that I was too busy with things that were actually happening- I couldn't deal with listening to her complain about petty things.  I was dealing with serious medical stuff.  Her conplaints were very trivial in the course of life.  I think that made her kind of look at her conplaints a little differently. I do think that young adulthood is full of new things to navigate, including insurance,  job applications (have you had experience with the new online application processes, ridiculous and extremely time consuming.  Bordering on abusive IMO), just the prices of everything compared to your salary.  Even if we weren't going through a time of high inflation, just learning how much it costs for your comfortable cost of living is a shock.  

[Ginevra]

2 hours ago, Clarita said:

In California you can make a $35,000 cash deposit with the DMV to claim self insurance for the car insurance.

Does the state hold it as a bond? I wonder how long that is good for and does it increase over time?

[Ginevra]

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

Even if we weren't going through a time of high inflation, just learning how much it costs for your comfortable cost of living is a shock.  

That’s true. 

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Ginevra said:

Does the state hold it as a bond? I wonder how long that is good for and does it increase over time?

I don't know I didn't look at the details.

[SKL]

5 hours ago, bolt. said:

That's so interesting. US regulations (or lack thereof) are a bit intuitively different from what I'm used to as a Canadian. They seem to be just a touch more pro-business as core decision makers, and less whole-society / government as core decision makers.

I checked my province, and you can't be denied the basic mandatory auto insurance (if you are not seeking it fraudulently etc.), but they can deny you any other insurance product beyond that minimal level. I also assume that they can price you at some pretty epic rates based on being 'a bad risk'... but I bet there's a regulated maximum they would run up against at some point.

Here, there is a fair amount of competition for car insurance.  There will be one or two companies that will offer high risk car insurance (at a whopping price).  Other companies choose not to be in that market segment.  I don't recall ever knowing anyone who couldn't find an insurance company to quote them.  One hopes that if someone's driving record is that bad, his/her license has been revoked / suspended anyway.

Is it really better for society if bad drivers can get affordable car insurance no matter what?  It's debatable IMO.

[SKL]

6 hours ago, bolt. said:

Off topic but: Don't they have to offer insurance to everyone? I thought all businesses were obligated by various anti-discrimination laws to offer a product to an entire population, or not at all. Is insurance exempt?

I don't think it's only insurance.  Let's take mortgage lending.  You aren't going to get a loan if your credit sucks, or if you don't have a good job and earning history.  I don't care what you call it.  In fact, banks are not legally allowed to intentionally make loans that don't meet basic credit criteria.

Let's take private education.  They don't have to accept everyone.  Selective schools hardly accept anyone, and even non-selective state universities have minimum criteria for admission.

Or any sports clubs or arts schools that require try-outs / auditions and select less than 100% of applicants.

My CPA or lawyer can say no to any job s/he doesn't want to do.  Pretty sure my dentist or chiropractor can, too.  (Exception being emergency rooms.)

So ... I'm not sure which law you're referencing.  There probably are some rules that prevent people from being turned away from absolutely essential goods/services which are simultaneously being offered to others.  But no, car insurance isn't one of them.  And while you aren't allowed to turn away a customer because they belong to a protected class (for example, because you don't like Jewish people), bad drivers are not a protected class.