Can we talk about "fundie baby voice" without getting political?

[kbutton]

 

5 minutes ago, maize said:

Social Security credit for caregiving work is one of the things I would most like to see as a start to acknowledging the real value of that work.

I think we also need to acknowledge that for some people, working would not net them enough extra income to help because of childcare costs or costs inherent to those specific children (my kids needed tons of things that would not have been IEP eligible even if they were in school and do not have full insurance coverage). Sometimes it’s logistics combined with finances. Sometimes it’s not being able to put a medically complicated kid in daycare of whatever.

 

 

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, kbutton said:

 

I think we also need to acknowledge that for some people, working would not net them enough extra income to help because of childcare costs or costs inherent to those specific children (my kids needed tons of things that would not have been IEP eligible even if they were in school and do not have full insurance coverage). Sometimes it’s logistics combined with finances. Sometimes it’s not being able to put a medically complicated kid in daycare of whatever.

 

 

Agreed. I left the work force when our 2nd child had a health issue. It was before I had enough credits to qualify for ss and disability. But when the cardiologist tells you to take your kid home and isolate him at all costs to do everything possible to keep him from getting sick again for a couple years without putting said kid in a bubble, what is the alternative? Our system absolutely hammers any parent who has to make this choice. So many changes needed, and needed a very very long time ago!

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Women here lack financial security if they are SAHMs.  They don't generate social security credits, they don't generate disability payment credits.There are long-term, lifelong implications for being a caregiver during your working years. While many women never foresee themselves as becoming single or needing to later become a provider when they start off in traditional marriage arrangements, more than half do.  

I'd love to see to see some of our benefit structures change so that women could generate social security/disability credits.  Obamacare/healthcare.gov has given greater access to health insurance outside of employment, which I think is wonderful.

The UK has a payment  - not a tax credit - payable for each child. Traditionally the parents choose that the spouse who is most likely to stay home with the children receives the payment. This is because it carries with it a nominal contribution to state pension - social security equivalent - so that a stay at home spouse can develop a minimal independent retirement income. The cash payment lasts until the youngest child is 16, or 18 if in full time education.  It's not much but it's something. The pension contribution lasts until the youngest child is 12.

It was actually started to ensure that mothers could feed their children if the husband drank his pay packet.

[gardenmom5]

7 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Seriously. I do not get it. At all. And FWIW I have two of them on the periphery of my life. One makes a little extra money, the other could probably live on what he makes, although influencing isn't his main job and he doesn't want it to be. But they're both quite normal, everyday people.

 

The tradwife thing has been written about by various news outlets I read. I suppose because it crosses over into the political realm. I have no idea what #sadbeigechildren means, though.

As far as Katie Britt--I'd never heard of her until the SOTU rebuttal. But I read somewhere that the entry level model of the fridge in her kitchen starts out at $10k. So that kinda clued me in that she's not exactly representative of Average US Mom.

I have some regular youtube posters I follow - but I don't consider them "influencers", so much as having interesting channels.
I know Lawrence Brown of Lost in the Pond quit his job and his channel is now his main source of income, but his wife is a school teacher. (he's a brit, and has lived in the US midwest for 12 years (got his citizenship last year) - so his channel is about the differences between the US and the UK. and he's funny.)
Mark Rober did too . . . quit as a NASA engineer.  And it's his income.

re: Katie Britt - the fact she's in Congress, should clue anyone into the fact she's NOWHERE near the average US mom.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I think that if we were talking about the crunchy, earth mom influence, then that is a very valid point. Most of the influencers I have seen do not appear to espousing this at all given the sheer amount of lab/manufactured fibers used in their clothing, decor, etc. 

and makeup, 😂. I resemble them…NOW.

For me, the voice was theatrical and cringy but it was the whole package. She’s a U.S. Senator, one of 100 in the entire country, reduced to a ‘housewife’ to appeal to…me? No one I know who’s lived the SAHM life (and many have ample resources) is a shrinking violet with a whispery, plaintive demeanor. When our spouses are deployed, we do all. Those who have means, even ample means, don’t live in homes with subzero fridges with custom panels. Like, maybe your retirement home? Not real…we’re still in the trenches. It was just so…off. Is that really what half the county thinks women want to see and be?

Edited March 13 by Sneezyone

[maize]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

 

I think we also need to acknowledge that for some people, working would not net them enough extra income to help because of childcare costs or costs inherent to those specific children (my kids needed tons of things that would not have been IEP eligible even if they were in school and do not have full insurance coverage). Sometimes it’s logistics combined with finances. Sometimes it’s not being able to put a medically complicated kid in daycare of whatever.

 

 

I'm 100% with you on this.

The needs of my kids are not easily addressed by the public school system, and that absolutely limits what options I have careerwise. I currently work 15-25 hours per week with most of those hours being flexible and from home; it's a rare job that allows that much flexibility, and I'm not currently in a position of needing to be a primary breadwinner. 

I am in the process of positioning myself to take over as primary breadwinner if (really when) my dh's kidney disease or other disabilities force him into disability retirement. Depending on when that happens and whether he is able to take over any of my current parenting load at that point, things could be very complicated.

Not that they aren't already.

[maize]

47 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

The UK has a payment  - not a tax credit - payable for each child. Traditionally the parents choose that the spouse who is most likely to stay home with the children receives the payment. This is because it carries with it a nominal contribution to state pension - social security equivalent - so that a stay at home spouse can develop a minimal independent retirement income. The cash payment lasts until the youngest child is 16, or 18 if in full time education.  It's not much but it's something. The pension contribution lasts until the youngest child is 12.

It was actually started to ensure that mothers could feed their children if the husband drank his pay packet.

This seems to me like a big step in the right direction.  Hard to push through in the US political climate.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, maize said:

I'm 100% with you on this.

The needs of my kids are not easily addressed by the public school system, and that absolutely limits what options I have careerwise. I currently work 15-25 hours per week with most of those hours being flexible and from home; it's a rare job that allows that much flexibility, and I'm not currently in a position of needing to be a primary breadwinner. 

I am in the process of positioning myself to take over as primary breadwinner if (really when) my dh's kidney disease or other disabilities force him into disability retirement. Depending on when that happens and whether he is able to take over any of my current parenting load at that point, things could be very complicated.

Not that they aren't already.

FTR- I am preparing to take over too, with or without DH. It’s hard on the ego for men conditioned to be ‘the breadwinner’. It’s even harder when you’ve indulged that fantasy too long. Renegotiation in progress.  
 

Misogyny hurts everyone b/c there certainly are policies that could help.

[kbutton]

4 minutes ago, maize said:

I'm 100% with you on this.

The needs of my kids are not easily addressed by the public school system, and that absolutely limits what options I have careerwise. I currently work 15-25 hours per week with most of those hours being flexible and from home; it's a rare job that allows that much flexibility, and I'm not currently in a position of needing to be a primary breadwinner. 

I am in the process of positioning myself to take over as primary breadwinner if (really when) my dh's kidney disease or other disabilities force him into disability retirement. Depending on when that happens and whether he is able to take over any of my current parenting load at that point, things could be very complicated.

Not that they aren't already.

Your complicated situation (even more complicated than I knew) is one that came to mind.

We’d have been able to muddle through some kind of second career scenario, but I think it would’ve utterly broken us all, and DH would’ve had to take a different career direction. 

[Grace Hopper]

Remarkably timely article, popped up in my twixter feed today  

 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2024/march-web-only/tradwife-influencer-movement-fundamentalism-christian.html

 

[Eos]

3 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I wonder whether the beige colors are indicative of organic, undyed fibers?  Because chemical inputs reduction is a value that some hold, and cotton, most wool, and linen, if undyed, would fall into that color range.

I think so.  It's about "purity" on so many levels.

[KungFuPanda]

5 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I wonder whether the beige colors are indicative of organic, undyed fibers?  Because chemical inputs reduction is a value that some hold, and cotton, most wool, and linen, if undyed, would fall into that color range.

I think the beige thing started because when you looked at an array of thumbnail posts they all match if they’re all neutral. That’s one theory I heard. It may or may not be true. 🙃

[Clarita]

Just so everyone knows I keep reading tradwife as trade wife. Every time my brain tries to figure out whether people are doing spouse swaps or if women are encouraging other women to go into the trades. I have to tell my brain trad is short for traditional...

[prairiewindmomma]

12 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Just so everyone knows I keep reading tradwife as trade wife. Every time my brain tries to figure out whether people are doing spouse swaps or if women are encouraging other women to go into the trades. I have to tell my brain trad is short for traditional...

Lol….well, my daughters do all know how to use powered saws, drills, and CNC routers… 

[maize]

57 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Lol….well, my daughters do all know how to use powered saws, drills, and CNC routers… 

Ah, bringing up the next generation of tradwives properly I see...

😁

I remember once we had a contractor at the house doing some work and he had forgotten a type of saw he needed for something.  He asked me "does your husband have a [ ] saw" and I told him my husband doesn't use woodworking tools but I might have one. 

It annoyed me enough that I remember the interaction years later. I'm not much of a handyman but I'm the only one in this household who does any handyman stuff; I don't care if you ascribe ownership of the tools to me or the household at large, but don't ascribe ownership exclusively to someone who never uses them at all.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, maize said:

Ah, bringing up the next generation of tradwives properly I see...

😁

I remember once we had a contractor at the house doing some work and he had forgotten a type of saw he needed for something.  He asked me "does your husband have a [ ] saw" and I told him my husband doesn't use woodworking tools but I might have one. 

It annoyed me enough that I remember the interaction years later. I'm not much of a handyman but I'm the only one in this household who does any handyman stuff; I don't care if you ascribe ownership of the tools to me or the household at large, but don't ascribe ownership exclusively to someone who never uses them at all.

dh's dn and her dh got onto some "first time renovators" show.   (they got money out of it.)  She was mad because they edited to make her look inept.  They had her dad (dh's bil) and brother bring multiple changes of cloths when they came to help so they could story-line it of they got in over their heads and had to bring in contractors . . . 
the producers wanted people who are inept. . . . They're not.

Her sister is the one that owns the power tools in her marriage.  She also shoots, and has a side-business of decorating cakes.

[Grace Hopper]

8 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Is that really what half the county thinks women want to see and be?

Terrible mis-assumption on Britt’s part, but yes, I think that she (and her clique) must really believe that she would resonate with far more American women than she actually did. 
 

 

[SHP]

4 hours ago, maize said:

Ah, bringing up the next generation of tradwives properly I see...

😁

I remember once we had a contractor at the house doing some work and he had forgotten a type of saw he needed for something.  He asked me "does your husband have a [ ] saw" and I told him my husband doesn't use woodworking tools but I might have one. 

It annoyed me enough that I remember the interaction years later. I'm not much of a handyman but I'm the only one in this household who does any handyman stuff; I don't care if you ascribe ownership of the tools to me or the household at large, but don't ascribe ownership exclusively to someone who never uses them at all.

Clearly someone has to put the maker in homemaker.

[Sneezyone]

5 hours ago, maize said:

Ah, bringing up the next generation of tradwives properly I see...

😁

I remember once we had a contractor at the house doing some work and he had forgotten a type of saw he needed for something.  He asked me "does your husband have a [ ] saw" and I told him my husband doesn't use woodworking tools but I might have one. 

It annoyed me enough that I remember the interaction years later. I'm not much of a handyman but I'm the only one in this household who does any handyman stuff; I don't care if you ascribe ownership of the tools to me or the household at large, but don't ascribe ownership exclusively to someone who never uses them at all.

This is hilarious b/c a neighbor once came over and asked DH if he could borrow ‘his’ compound miter saw. DH said no, but I’ll ask my wife if you can borrow *her* saw! DH hasn’t operated anything more powerful than a cordless drill in 27 years, lol.

[Scarlett]

I like traditional roles.  I love taking care of the home, running everything, paying the bills, running the errands, planning meals etc.  I love a man who can do things around the house, fix, repair, create, etc.  and make a living.

Life is hard though and things change.  The time in my life where I was able to be a SAHM and wife, my then husband was for some reason enraged by the entire set up.  Even though I kept a spotless home, and did everything for our son and everything anyone needed.  
 

Now I work part time and my husband is so thankful for all I do as I am thankful for what he does.  I spend a lot of time helping my parents or others in need which he is fine with.  I don’t have the energy I once did and some days he walks in while I am in mid supper prep and I tell him I have to sit down because I am exhausted and so he finishes supper while I sit and chat with him.  

I don’t know why roles have to be so rigid……people need to go with the flow more.  
 

[Ellie]

I never heard of it until I was all grown up and almost finished homeschooling. I'm not sure which denominations fit in the "fundie" category, but I do know some women who use that voice, and they tend to be in heavy patriarcal denominations. One was almost a cult, and it took my friend several years to recover from her association with it.

[Eos]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:31 AM, Eos said:

Regarding the performative element, yesterday I was harboring dark thoughts about the future for these families when the pendulum swings or some new form of marketing takes off, will their marriages take the strain? Or will there arise a new online trend of #formertrads with indignant, tell-all memoirs? Or when their children reach adulthood and start attending the "I was a sad beige baby with everything to live for" support groups?

Quoting myself to say: that didn't take long!

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-trad-wife?

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Eos said:

Quoting myself to say: that didn't take long!

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-trad-wife?

It always irritates me that their actual, paid, JOB is to tell other women they don’t need a job. They’re promoting living on one income through frugality and I’ll bet many of them out earn their husbands. There’s nothing wrong with being a homemaker, but don’t tell people that’s your only gig when we can SEE you running your own business to supplement your standard of living. It’s weird and nobody is fooled. 
 

The head of household thing is wacky too. Sure, you can take care of a home, and maybe a garden, while your DH is at work and not need his help, but what happens when you have kids?  Now you have a 16 hour workday and a husband who is inept around the house? Is the goal really for your husband to have an 8 hour day while you raise kids, run a farm, care for a house, feed everyone, and film it? All while taking care not to get any hint of suburbia or hired help in the frame? 

[Carrie12345]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:49 AM, Scarlett said:

I don’t know why roles have to be so rigid……people need to go with the flow more.  

Yes!

The trad wife stuff makes me so uncomfortable as a person who stays home, homeschools, has 5 kids, likes to keep a clean house, gardens, cans, has sourdough, etc., etc.   
And (some of) the negative comments on social media make me uncomfortable with their judgement of the basics.

I’m not a trad wife in the sense that they’re advertising. I’m an atheist, feminist, sloppy dresser, genuine messy bun wearer who complains about a lot, has a major potty mouth, and takes meds. 😄 

But I also hate to see the aspects I love being torn down just because not everyone wants that.

Just do what works for you and expect everyone else to do what works for them.

[Eos]

10 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Yes!

The trad wife stuff makes me so uncomfortable as a person who stays home, homeschools, has 5 kids, likes to keep a clean house, gardens, cans, has sourdough, etc., etc.   
And (some of) the negative comments on social media make me uncomfortable with their judgement of the basics.

I’m not a trad wife in the sense that they’re advertising. I’m an atheist, feminist, sloppy dresser, genuine messy bun wearer who complains about a lot, has a major potty mouth, and takes meds. 😄 

But I also hate to see the aspects I love being torn down just because not everyone wants that.

Just do what works for you and expect everyone else to do what works for them.

Amen.

 

[Scarlett]

10 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

It always irritates me that their actual, paid, JOB is to tell other women they don’t need a job. They’re promoting living on one income through frugality and I’ll bet many of them out earn their husbands. There’s nothing wrong with being a homemaker, but don’t tell people that’s your only gig when we can SEE you running your own business to supplement your standard of living. It’s weird and nobody is fooled. 

AND! And why do the anti trad wives have to act like a SAHM is so stupid she   will be living under a bridge if the marriage fails.  I don’t know how many times I see videos of anti trad wives saying she was the perfect wife for 25 years and the husband left her and she has nothing.  On one such video I commented, ‘ I don’t understand this.  Did you have no marital assets?’  You know what she replied? ‘’Sshhhh’.

Lets find some balance people.  You can live on one income and stay home to take care of your kids and still have a general plan in case he dies or leaves you.  Or becomes medically or mentally disabled.   Or looses his job. All sorts of things can happen to any of us and our lives will be completely turned upside down.  
 

I did not even have a good husband or marriage when I chose  to stay home with our son.  But he was there, living and breathing and needing his mom.  Those other possibilities were just that—-possibilities. 

 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Yes!

The trad wife stuff makes me so uncomfortable as a person who stays home, homeschools, has 5 kids, likes to keep a clean house, gardens, cans, has sourdough, etc., etc.   
And (some of) the negative comments on social media make me uncomfortable with their judgement of the basics.

I’m not a trad wife in the sense that they’re advertising. I’m an atheist, feminist, sloppy dresser, genuine messy bun wearer who complains about a lot, has a major potty mouth, and takes meds. 😄 

But I also hate to see the aspects I love being torn down just because not everyone wants that.

Just do what works for you and expect everyone else to do what works for them.

Exactly.  And any time a ‘lifestyle’ looks too perfect we need to remember nothing is perfect.  The trad wives kind of creep me out while at the same time showcasing some things I really like about being a SAHM.