WWYD if you were ds26

[Scarlett]

Ds26 has a big mess on his hands.

He still hasn’t straightened out the claim for his car that caught fire and was totaled.  I believe the gap insurance did not pay all of it so he is working to clear up the remaining balance.  Meanwhile he is driving his mom’s car. I think he has been using her car for about 10 months.

His wife has a 2013 Nissan Rogue that is dead in the water. Needs a transmission to make it drive, but realistically needs more than that.  He owes 3800 on it.  He has already replaced the transmission once about 3 years ago.  Dh is checking on prices for a new one ($5k) vs used one (quote not back yet) but the last used one ds put in it cost $3200.  

His wife went and got a Terrain on her own when the Rogue she was driving died.  
 

So best I can tell they have 3 car payments and only one is usable.  
 

His plan is to save up to replace the transmission. Once he replaces the transmission the Rogue will be worth about 7K if he is lucky.  
 

I suggested he instead use that money to pay off the loan and then send it to salvage.  I doubt there is an exactly correct answer to this problem but WWYD.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Scarlett

[prairiewindmomma]

WWID? In your shoes I would acknowledge your dss’s poor track record on making decisions and listening to advice and I would avoid getting looped into whatever drama will be forthcoming, because there will be.

If you are asking if I had been in his shoes…I never would have gotten into that mess to begin with. AFA getting out of it goes—do the insurance claim, talk with mom to see how much longer I can have the car, and see what I can do to clear all of the debt. They both sound too low income to take on debt…..a car is a need only if they are paying you enough to justify a loan. Otherwise you move your apartment closer to work and use your friends right and left foot to walk or bike until you have enough of a nest egg that you can pay outright for a car. Sell plasma, sell your stuff, take a second job, apply for benefits….and eventually get enough skills or education and good sense that you don’t get into such a crisis point again. 
 

But, honestly, he made a poor decision in choosing a wife and she seems determined to have nice things she can’t pay for, so I don’t know that he will ever break free of debt and bad choices.

[almondbutterandjelly]

In that situation, I would replace the transmission and use that car for myself.  Give mom back her car.  Continue to work on the insurance thing.

[bolt.]

What would I do? I'd keep myself more distant from information regarding that person's vehicle and vehicle financing choices. Information that I'm not tracking is unlikely to bother me.

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

WWID? In your shoes I would acknowledge your dss’s poor track record on making decisions and listening to advice and I would avoid getting looped into whatever drama will be forthcoming, because there will be.

If you are asking if I had been in his shoes…I never would have gotten into that mess to begin with. AFA getting out of it goes—do the insurance claim, talk with mom to see how much longer I can have the car, and see what I can do to clear all of the debt. They both sound too low income to take on debt…..a car is a need only if they are paying you enough to justify a loan. Otherwise you move your apartment closer to work and use your friends right and left foot to walk or bike until you have enough of a nest egg that you can pay outright for a car. Sell plasma, sell your stuff, take a second job, apply for benefits….and eventually get enough skills or education and good sense that you don’t get into such a crisis point again. 
 

But, honestly, he made a poor decision in choosing a wife and she seems determined to have nice things she can’t pay for, so I don’t know that he will ever break free of debt and bad choices.

Sorry I thought it was obvious I was asking WWYD if you were ds26.  
 

We aren’t looped into their drama any more than just being parents trying to do the little we can, like helping them move, calling for prices.  We won’t be giving them money for sure. We have very little ourselves and also money won’t solve his problems because yes I agree he has made many poor decisions.  He is capable of learning to make better decisions even if they aren’t decisions we would make.  If he has any hope of learning to make better decisions our influence will probably be the only thing in his life that helps.  

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, perky said:

In that situation, I would replace the transmission and use that car for myself.  Give mom back her car.  Continue to work on the insurance thing.

Yes, that is his plan….repair the Rogue and give his moms car back.  But you would repair it vs paying it off and salvaging it?  Basically you think it is worth repairing?

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, bolt. said:

What would I do? I'd keep myself more distant from information regarding that person's vehicle and vehicle financing choices. Information that I'm not tracking is unlikely to bother me.

Well, it is our son, so not sure why it is so strange he would be asking for advice and letting us know things. We aren’t bothered by it.  We are fully accepting of him being responsible for himself. 

[TheReader]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, that is his plan….repair the Rogue and give his moms car back.  But you would repair it vs paying it off and salvaging it?  Basically you think it is worth repairing?

While paying it off gets him out of debt, it still leaves him using someone else's car.  If he can get a few more years out of it by fixing it, then he could repair it, spend the money to pay it off slowly as he's doing, have a drivable car for a while longer, and Mom gets her car back as well.  

If he pays it off/salvages it instead, he still either needs to keep using mom's car, or find another vehicle to use (or he/his wife share the one she just bought), which would likely lead to him buying something else and still having a payment anyway, ya know? Possibly a higher payment, b/c used cars are $$$ right now. And then it's still a used car, with now an unknown history, and possibly similar problems.  Stick to the car he knows, repair it, get a few more years out of it, pay it off during that time, and by then hopefully be in a better place to make a good decision. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, TheReader said:

While paying it off gets him out of debt, it still leaves him using someone else's car.  If he can get a few more years out of it by fixing it, then he could repair it, spend the money to pay it off slowly as he's doing, have a drivable car for a while longer, and Mom gets her car back as well.  

If he pays it off/salvages it instead, he still either needs to keep using mom's car, or find another vehicle to use (or he/his wife share the one she just bought), which would likely lead to him buying something else and still having a payment anyway, ya know? Possibly a higher payment, b/c used cars are $$$ right now. And then it's still a used car, with now an unknown history, and possibly similar problems.  Stick to the car he knows, repair it, get a few more years out of it, pay it off during that time, and by then hopefully be in a better place to make a good decision. 

No matter what he does he will be giving his mom’s car back asap.

These Rogues are known for having bad transmissions…..in fact I am starting to doubt they are going to find a working transmission to even repair it!  If he does put the money in it to repair it I think he plans to get rid of it asap because it is frankly a piece of junk.  I don’t think there is any way out of him having a payment at this point. 

I guess my thought is to cut his losses and start over.  He wants to buy dh’s truck so that would be a known vehicle.,

[bolt.]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, it is our son, so not sure why it is so strange he would be asking for advice and letting us know things. We aren’t bothered by it.  We are fully accepting of him being responsible for himself. 

That's good. I tend to be bothered by info where people don't seem (to my eyes) to be making the most sensible available decision(s). So one of my strategies is to avoid actively seeking info or seeming too interested/invested. That's because if I don't watch myself, I *do* get too interested/invested. It's just a method that works well for me sometimes. It's great that you do okay with the info and aren't bothered by it.

[Shelydon]

I would pay off the Rogue and then send it to salvage, two transmissions in 10 years means I don't want it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He wants to buy dh’s truck so that would be a known vehicle.,

There we go. 
 

Of course parents want to help children. And of course the likelihood of him making better decisions will increase if y’all are weighing in…

But in the years of you posting about him, have y’all noticed he tends to see you more when he needs you and less when he doesn’t? And that often y’all do the legwork for him even if he does the thing? I wonder if that dynamic slows his learning curve. 
 

Part of my extended family could probably write their lives as a telenovela (soap opera) script. IME in watching this all play out for decades, I would say that most of them don’t learn if they don’t experience the really hard consequences fully. I am not saying go tough love fully on them….but I think doing the legwork, which is hard and difficult and boring does teach more than the bail out. And I’d say it’s easier on the parents when they aren’t in the details of finances at all.

The fact that the insurance claim is still dragging on means that he isn’t on fire to solve this for himself.  Same with the divorce that dragged on. Even if he needs support in the hoop jumping (you sitting next to him while he does the thing), he should be wanting to handle his stuff to get out of a pickle like he means it.

[Bootsie]

Much would depend upon how much the interest rate is on his current car loan and what the length of time left on the car loan is.  (It is likely that the interest rate on a new car loan would be higher than his current loan given the interest rate environment).  

I am not quite understanding the situation with the car that was in the fire, however.  Was the car not insured for enough to pay off the current loan balance?  How much is still owed on that car?

[WildflowerMom]

How much is left on the car in the fire?   

[Murphy101]

I’d suggest selling/trading in all the vehicles and buying one that’s more reliable probably with a rollover loan.  Which sucks, but he can pay it down with that money he was going to save up.  I would not offer to sell my truck to him. I would not offer to give/loan him money.   It seems they are not in a position to own 2 vehicles with 2 loans at this time. So for about 1-2 years, they are just going to have to make the one car shuffle struggle that probably most of us did at their ages back in the day.

Then I’d forget the conversation ever happened and offer no money or further advice.  They can take my advice or not and we’ll be happy to see them at Sunday dinner regardless  

Some folks only learn in school of hard knocks. And the folks who don’t learn even from that school, can’t be lectured or given enough money to make them understand. 

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There we go. 
 

Of course parents want to help children. And of course the likelihood of him making better decisions will increase if y’all are weighing in…

But in the years of you posting about him, have y’all noticed he tends to see you more when he needs you and less when he doesn’t? And that often y’all do the legwork for him even if he does the thing? I wonder if that dynamic slows his learning curve. 
 

Part of my extended family could probably write their lives as a telenovela (soap opera) script. IME in watching this all play out for decades, I would say that most of them don’t learn if they don’t experience the really hard consequences fully. I am not saying go tough love fully on them….but I think doing the legwork, which is hard and difficult and boring does teach more than the bail out. And I’d say it’s easier on the parents when they aren’t in the details of finances at all.

The fact that the insurance claim is still dragging on means that he isn’t on fire to solve this for himself.  Same with the divorce that dragged on. Even if he needs support in the hoop jumping (you sitting next to him while he does the thing), he should be wanting to handle his stuff to get out of a pickle like he means it.

I don’t know what you mean by ‘There ya go’. 
 

As far as seeing us more when he needs us…..not true.  This son has only been back in our lives for a few short years after being alienated for 7 years. 
 

There is a lot he doesn’t know and when he asked for ideas Dh is happy to help in whatever small way he can.  Which translates to  advice, watching the baby once in a while, and moving a load of their bigger stuff in our truck.  We would not do what his mom has done (loaning him a vehicle) and we don’t give him money.  So not sure why you think he is somehow using us.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

The fact that the insurance claim is still dragging on means that he isn’t on fire to solve this for himself.  Same with the divorce that dragged on. Even if he needs support in the hoop jumping (you sitting next to him while he does the thing), he should be wanting to handle his stuff to get out of a pickle like he means it.

He owes more on the totaled car than insurance paid.  So he is working to finish paying it off.  He also still owes money on a car that is dead.  So I think he is definitely consequences of his poor decisions and he is very trapped by said decisions.  
 

He is making a few strides of progress.  He has a full time job M-F at a tire store with benefits.  He told us he is also working the next two weekends in security to save up money for the transmission repair.  So I do think there is still hope for this young man.  

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I’d suggest selling/trading in all the vehicles and buying one that’s more reliable probably with a rollover loan.  Which sucks, but he can pay it down with that money he was going to save up.  I would not offer to sell my truck to him. I would not offer to give/loan him money.   It seems they are not in a position to own 2 vehicles with 2 loans at this time. So for about 1-2 years, they are just going to have to make the one car shuffle struggle that probably most of us did at their ages back in the day.

Then I’d forget the conversation ever happened and offer no money or further advice.  They can take my advice or not and we’ll be happy to see them at Sunday dinner regardless  

Some folks only learn in school of hard knocks. And the folks who don’t learn even from that school, can’t be lectured or given enough money to make them understand. 

I do not think they can get by with one car.  Between the child care and their job hours over lapping weirdly there is literally no way.  
 

We are selling our truck…..why not sell it to him?

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

How much is left on the car in the fire?   

I don’t know.  We really don’t ask a lot of pressing detailed questions……but he did offer info on the Rogue because he just doesn’t know what to do.  

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Much would depend upon how much the interest rate is on his current car loan and what the length of time left on the car loan is.  (It is likely that the interest rate on a new car loan would be higher than his current loan given the interest rate environment).  

I am not quite understanding the situation with the car that was in the fire, however.  Was the car not insured for enough to pay off the current loan balance?  How much is still owed on that car?

If I am remembering the numbers correctly insurances paid $12k but the loan was for $18k.  And I don’t know much about gap insurance but I guess there is a limit to the gap.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

Wouldn't the transmission have a warranty? Have your DH or DS check into that. If it was replaced by a reputable dealer, it should have a warranty for longer than 3 years.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Wouldn't the transmission have a warranty? Have your DH or DS check into that. If it was replaced by a reputable dealer, it should have a warranty for longer than 3 years.

Not on a used transmission. Warranty is 90 days. 

[Bootsie]

14 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

If I am remembering the numbers correctly insurances paid $12k but the loan was for $18k.  And I don’t know much about gap insurance but I guess there is a limit to the gap.  

That seems to be a very large gap if the loan was the loan balance (and not simply the original amount borrowed).  It would be unusual for a lender to lend $18,000 for a car that is only worth $12,000 because the car is the collateral for the loan.  So, the first thing I would do if I were him is to make sure that I am not paying for a car than its value in the future.  The second thing I would do is get this situation resolved before making any further decision about a car.  This will not only determine how much he has available for a new car, but getting this situation resolved will likely have an influence on his being able to get financing for any new vehicle.  

[Bootsie]

24 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I do not think they can get by with one car.  Between the child care and their job hours over lapping weirdly there is literally no way.  
 

We are selling our truck…..why not sell it to him?

As a parent, if I were financially able and was planning on selling the truck, I would sell it to my child.  I would set up a payment plan (with interest) and make it a legally binding loan, with the truck as collateral.  And, as a parent, I would have to stand ready to reposses the truck if the loan payments aren't being made.  I would see this as "helping out", not "bailing out" in that the interest rate he is going to have to pay to borrow money for a car from a bank is probably going to be high given his current situation.  

[WildflowerMom]

I'm just throwing some things out there.  I get that you want to help.  I would, too.   It's hard not to help when it's your kid.  
 

How can he afford to buy the truck with the two payments he has?    Does he have $ stashed away?   
 

what could he get for selling the 2 autos as is?    Could he sell one as is (like for parts) and use that to help with the loan from the other one? 

[prairiewindmomma]

What I mean by “there you go” is that he thinks he knows what the solution to his problems is…give back his mom’s car, and buy his dad’s truck instead. But, I doubt he has the cash for it (he is having to save for the transmission to replace it in a non working vehicle), so either you are fronting him the money or he is making payments he is unlikely to be able to keep up with given he already owes on three other vehicles. Even if he has the money, getting into a fourth vehicle when he can’t resolve the others seems….short sighted. 
 

A good beater vehicle is a 15 year old civic or Corolla with no ac, and all highway miles, iykwim. It isn’t a GMC terrain and it isn’t a truck where he is going to get lower mpg. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

As a parent, if I were financially able and was planning on selling the truck, I would sell it to my child.  I would set up a payment plan (with interest) and make it a legally binding loan, with the truck as collateral.  And, as a parent, I would have to stand ready to reposses the truck if the loan payments aren't being made.  I would see this as "helping out", not "bailing out" in that the interest rate he is going to have to pay to borrow money for a car from a bank is probably going to be high given his current situation.  

Oh we won’t finance it. No way. Not to this young man. 

[Bootsie]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Oh we won’t finance it. No way. Not to this young man. 

If I weren't willing to finance it as a parent, then I would probably try to avoid selling it to him.  It doesn't sound as if a truck is the most practical vehicle for him at this point, so I would not want to be part of "encouraging" him to get in a situation of owning a truck. 

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I'm just throwing some things out there.  I get that you want to help.  I would, too.   It's hard not to help when it's your kid.  
 

How can he afford to buy the truck with the two payments he has?    Does he have $ stashed away?   
 

what could he get for selling the 2 autos as is?    Could he sell one as is (like for parts) and use that to help with the loan from the other one? 

We aren’t really looking to help beyond like I said, moving a load of stuff and helping him get dead car to shop.  
 

I was just wondering what others would do about a Rogue that is probably not worth fixing.  
 

He won’t be buying anything until he gets at least one of these issues settled…..hopefully both. Once he frees up enough credit he will buy something else so he can give his moms car back. It might work for him too buy our truck. But we won’t finance it.  

[HomeAgain]

Here's what I would do:

I'd be a comforting shoulder.  I'd ask him appropriate questions, like what he plans to do. I'd give him my full confidence in being able to work it out.  And then we'd talk about other things.

At 26, I was very much an adult making adult decisions.  I didn't need anyone else to weigh in unless I asked for their input - and I asked those I valued and trusted to treat me as an equal.

Adults make poor decisions.  It's part of learning how to adult and get their feet under them.  Any decision he makes is going to have long term ramifications, so I wouldn't think it mattered which he made.

[WildflowerMom]

Does he have to give back mom's car right now?   Is that a must?    
does he have anything at all he can sell?    Video gaming stuff?   Anything at all?    Could he get a 2nd job just a couple days a week to get them paid off and then sell both for parts or scrap them?  
 

 

[fairfarmhand]

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Oh we won’t finance it. No way. Not to this young man. 

Good. I was gonna mention this. That would end up awkward.

[Corraleno]

What will he get for the Rogue if he scraps it? And will it really be worth $7K if he puts $3K into it? My instinct is usually to cut my losses and avoid throwing good money after bad, but if he would only get $1K for scrapping it, and he can realistically get $7K after investing $3K, then that does make more financial sense. What happened with the fire car, did that already get scrapped? 

And on the general topic of tough love/let them fail... I think that's a lot easier said than done. And honestly, I don't get the idea of purposely watching my kids fail if I have the power to help them. I mean I wouldn't help them flee the country to escape a murder charge or give them money if I knew it would be spent on drugs, but if I can help them with a short term problem that has a reasonable solution, I'm going to do that. Kids don't know what they don't know; if I can help out by doing some research, or even legwork, and providing advice, that costs me nothing and the kids are always free to take it or leave it. The idea that "this kid makes bad decisions so you should stay out of it and not help or give advice" seems backwards to me — kids that always make good decisions aren't the ones who need help and advice!

 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, WildflowerMom said:

Does he have to give back mom's car right now?   Is that a must?    
does he have anything at all he can sell?    Video gaming stuff?   Anything at all?    Could he get a 2nd job just a couple days a week to get them paid off and then sell both for parts or scrap them?  
 

 

I don’t know what the conversation is with ds and his mom. He has had it so long already. 
 

He already has a second job. 

[Scarlett]

37 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

What will he get for the Rogue if he scraps it? And will it really be worth $7K if he puts $3K into it? My instinct is usually to cut my losses and avoid throwing good money after bad, but if he would only get $1K for scrapping it, and he can realistically get $7K after investing $3K, then that does make more financial sense. What happened with the fire car, did that already get scrapped? 

 

 

Yes fire car is scrapped. 

I honestly don’t think they can get 7 out of it if repaired. Also quote  just came back. $4200. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

Here's what I would do:

I'd be a comforting shoulder.  I'd ask him appropriate questions, like what he plans to do. I'd give him my full confidence in being able to work it out.  And then we'd talk about other things.

At 26, I was very much an adult making adult decisions.  I didn't need anyone else to weigh in unless I asked for their input - and I asked those I valued and trusted to treat me as an equal.

Adults make poor decisions.  It's part of learning how to adult and get their feet under them.  Any decision he makes is going to have long term ramifications, so I wouldn't think it mattered which he made.

Yes obviously we aren’t trying to make his decisions for him. 
 

I really just wondered if others would repair the Rogue or scrap it.  
 

I think like two people answered that question. lol
 

 

[Corraleno]

14 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I honestly don’t think they can get 7 out of it if repaired. Also quote  just came back. $4200. 

Can you get him to run more realistic numbers? Like if he could realistically get $6200, but he has to put $4200 into it, and he could get $1000 for just scrapping it, then scrapping it makes more sense, because if he goes to all the trouble and expense of putting a new transmission in there are likely going to be other problems that need to be repaired, too, and he may end up either not making any more than he would have if he'd scrapped it, or even losing money on it.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

Can you get him to run more realistic numbers? Like if he could realistically get $6200, but he has to put $4200 into it, and he could get $1000 for just scrapping it, then scrapping it makes more sense, because if he goes to all the trouble and expense of putting a new transmission in there are likely going to be other problems that need to be repaired, too, and he may end up either not making any more than he would have if he'd scrapped it, or even losing money on it.

That is dh’s plan. To help ds see the big picture and other options that he may not have considered.  
 

There are definitely other issues with the car besides the transmission. Mechanical, plus the paint is peeling.

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I do not think they can get by with one car.  Between the child care and their job hours over lapping weirdly there is literally no way.  
 

We are selling our truck…..why not sell it to him?

They will do what they have to do to get by. It will suck. They will hate it enough to change their situation to something less sucky. Such is life as adult working to provide for children. Btdt. 

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

As a parent, if I were financially able and was planning on selling the truck, I would sell it to my child.  I would set up a payment plan (with interest) and make it a legally binding loan, with the truck as collateral.  And, as a parent, I would have to stand ready to reposses the truck if the loan payments aren't being made.  I would see this as "helping out", not "bailing out" in that the interest rate he is going to have to pay to borrow money for a car from a bank is probably going to be high given his current situation.  

Hell would freeze before I did that. So I’m not saying I’d never do it but I’d sure as heck avoid it if possible. Think of the follow through set up here. If he defaults - would you really take it to court to get the money? Really repo the car? Most parents wouldn’t and whether they did or not, that’s going to screw up relationships. Just nope to the no I wouldn’t even step foot down that path.

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

If I weren't willing to finance it as a parent, then I would probably try to avoid selling it to him.  It doesn't sound as if a truck is the most practical vehicle for him at this point, so I would not want to be part of "encouraging" him to get in a situation of owning a truck. 

This. The truck is a gas guzzling money pit for a person that already can’t afford to maintain and replace the vehicles they already have.  And I can hear it now. “You sold me a lemon so you should help me repair it.” Or “We need money because we can’t afford this gas guzzler.” Or….

Just no. What they need is their own reliable vehicle. As it is, they are probably mostly functioning as though they have one car anyways due to all the cars not being reliable or whether mom can lend them her car.

Like it or not. This is where a lot of decisions have led them. And it’s okay. They are young enough to be able to sweat to improve their situation over a couple years.

So again. I think the best long term solution is face they have no money and need at least one reliable car.  For us that meant I woke up at 5am and loaded kids to take Dh to work and we shuffled however we had to switch the cars or carpooled or paid Pennie’s for gas for friends to give us rides for changing shifts and childcare.

If I really desperately wanted to help more, I’d sell the truck to someone else and *maybe* use the money to help my son get a different vehicle AFTER they have consolidated their vehicles into one reliable car. If they did that and suffered through it for a bit in earnest attempt to get ahead, I’d maybe find a used vehicle with that truck money and just gift it into son’s name. 

But given all you’ve said so far, I agree with Booties. This is not the vehicle for them and they aren’t listening to advice that could improve their situation. I’m not going to encourage this situation along by enabling them further.  Better to save your money for what’s probably going to be a much bigger problem he is likely to have later that you need to help with. 

[Scarlett]

37 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

They will do what they have to do to get by. It will suck. They will hate it enough to change their situation to something less sucky. Such is life as adult working to provide for children. Btdt. 

Hell would freeze before I did that. So I’m not saying I’d never do it but I’d sure as heck avoid it if possible. Think of the follow through set up here. If he defaults - would you really take it to court to get the money? Really repo the car? Most parents wouldn’t and whether they did or not, that’s going to screw up relationships. Just nope to the no I wouldn’t even step foot down that path.

This. The truck is a gas guzzling money pit for a person that already can’t afford to maintain and replace the vehicles they already have.  And I can hear it now. “You sold me a lemon so you should help me repair it.” Or “We need money because we can’t afford this gas guzzler.” Or….

Just no. What they need is their own reliable vehicle. As it is, they are probably mostly functioning as though they have one car anyways due to all the cars not being reliable or whether mom can lend them her car.

Like it or not. This is where a lot of decisions have led them. And it’s okay. They are young enough to be able to sweat to improve their situation over a couple years.

So again. I think the best long term solution is face they have no money and need at least one reliable car.  For us that meant I woke up at 5am and loaded kids to take Dh to work and we shuffled however we had to switch the cars or carpooled or paid Pennie’s for gas for friends to give us rides for changing shifts and childcare.

If I really desperately wanted to help more, I’d sell the truck to someone else and *maybe* use the money to help my son get a different vehicle AFTER they have consolidated their vehicles into one reliable car. If they did that and suffered through it for a bit in earnest attempt to get ahead, I’d maybe find a used vehicle with that truck money and just gift it into son’s name. 

But given all you’ve said so far, I agree with Booties. This is not the vehicle for them and they aren’t listening to advice that could improve their situation. I’m not going to encourage this situation along by enabling them further.  Better to save your money for what’s probably going to be a much bigger problem he is likely to have later that you need to help with. 

She works 8-5. He works 12 to 10 pm. I can’t see how it could work to have one car. 
 

If he wants to buy our car and comes up with the money we will sell it to him. Not selling it will do him no favors…. He will buy something and it won’t be good. 

[Murphy101]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She works 8-5. He works 12 to 10 pm. I can’t see how it could work to have one car. 
 

If he wants to buy our car and comes up with the money we will sell it to him. Not selling it will do him no favors…. He will buy something and it won’t be good. 

🤷‍♀️ sounds like a lunch break car trade off or job/shift change to me. And if you want to sell him the truck, fine by me. I was just saying what we would do.  Doesn’t bother me if we disagree. Your son. Your truck. Your decision.🙂

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

🤷‍♀️ sounds like a lunch break car trade off or job/shift change to me. And if you want to sell him the truck, fine by me. I was just saying what we would do.  Doesn’t bother me if we disagree. Your son. Your truck. Your decision.🙂

Well we are selling it to someone so may as well be him. 

[sweet2ndchance]

I would repair the Rogue to get by for as long as I need to save up and buy another vehicle with cash. But I'm the type that refuses to have a car payment over my head.

We just put a new transmission in my vehicle. It came with a 3 year warranty and just made more financial sense for us than a used or rebuilt one. If your ds only needs it to get by for a year or two while he saves up for a new vehicle, a used or rebuilt transmission might make more sense for his situation.

I encourage my children to stay away from car payments. One I know for sure didn't take my advice and learned what it means to be a slave to debt. She got in over her head, had to have her father co-sign for her, and it's just made a mess. I don't know if the other kids have car payments or not. She's the only one who has told me about her car payments. I'll listen, give advice if she asks but I will not bail her out. I've given her a few options to get out from under that car payment but so far she hasn't taken them. Shrug. Her life. Her decisions. Even if they are bad ones in my opinion sometimes.

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

 But I'm the type that refuses to have a car payment over my head

I encourage my children to stay away from car payments. 

Car payments can be a very sound financial choice if you invest the money you have saved for a higher return than the interest rate on the car loan, rather than paying cash for the vehicle. 

[Scarlett]

18 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

I would repair the Rogue to get by for as long as I need to save up and buy another vehicle with cash. But I'm the type that refuses to have a car payment over my head.

We just put a new transmission in my vehicle. It came with a 3 year warranty and just made more financial sense for us than a used or rebuilt one. If your ds only needs it to get by for a year or two while he saves up for a new vehicle, a used or rebuilt transmission might make more sense for his situation.

I encourage my children to stay away from car payments. One I know for sure didn't take my advice and learned what it means to be a slave to debt. She got in over her head, had to have her father co-sign for her, and it's just made a mess. I don't know if the other kids have car payments or not. She's the only one who has told me about her car payments. I'll listen, give advice if she asks but I will not bail her out. I've given her a few options to get out from under that car payment but so far she hasn't taken them. Shrug. Her life. Her decisions. Even if they are bad ones in my opinion sometimes.

I also don’t like car payments. But I do think he will have to have one because if prior bad decisions. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

And on the general topic of tough love/let them fail... I think that's a lot easier said than done. And honestly, I don't get the idea of purposely watching my kids fail if I have the power to help them. I mean I wouldn't help them flee the country to escape a murder charge or give them money if I knew it would be spent on drugs, but if I can help them with a short term problem that has a reasonable solution, I'm going to do that. Kids don't know what they don't know; if I can help out by doing some research, or even legwork, and providing advice, that costs me nothing and the kids are always free to take it or leave it. The idea that "this kid makes bad decisions so you should stay out of it and not help or give advice" seems backwards to me — kids that always make good decisions aren't the ones who need help and advice!

 

Agree. Especially when honestly, in this day and age more than ever, short term financial problems can get you so far behind that you can't see a way out. As my dad put it, if a kid of his needs money, he'd rather they come to him and he lend it to them, without interest, than have them go to the bank and "pay interest to some rich SOB banker so he can get even richer".  And in many cases, kids DO realize their mistake, after making it, but getting out of that mistake can lead to more problems. 

As DH's income has gone up and up over the years we recently realized how true it is that there is a "poor tax" and the more broke you are the harder it is to get ahead, and the more money you have, the easier it is to get ahead. We flipped over that line and it's VERY obvious. No more late fees, no more high interest rates on things, we can buy better quality rather than crappy stuff that breaks and we have to buy it again, we can afford to fix minor problems before they become bigger, more expensive problems, etc etc. 

When you are in the hole, sometimes you need a bit of help to scramble out. Without it, it is SO easy to end up even deeper. 

But I come from a family that has always prioritized helping the next generation financially. My grandparents helped pay for stuff for my parents, my parents helped me, we help my adult son. It's normal for our family culture. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

Okay, I didn’t realize the Rogue was in such bad shape. That changes my answer. Don’t throw any more money at it. Get rid of it, getting as much money as you can for it.

Sell him your truck.  Even blue book for it is probably a lot less than he would pay right now for a used car at a car lot.

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

Car payments can be a very sound financial choice if you invest the money you have saved for a higher return than the interest rate on the car loan, rather than paying cash for the vehicle. 

And sometimes you NEED a vehicle to get to and from work before you have enough saved to buy one with cash. And going without means not working, which is certainly not a smart financial choice. We have no car loan right now, but we did for a while, because we needed a vehicle and it made more sense to get a loan with the credit union for a good interest rate and get a better vehicle than get a beater that would need money for repairs more frequently. But, for us a car loan is like $100 a month, and for a used reasonably priced vehicle with a warranty. We went with Enterprise used cars last time and were happy. A car loan like that is not in the same ballpark as a $500 month payment for a new sportscar or luxury vehicle. 

[Calm37]

Gap insurance is supposed to cover the difference between the value of the car and the amount owed. It is a separate insurance policy and a separate claim. My husband sells cars and has never heard of a gap policy that doesn't cover the whole difference. 

[Scarlett]

28 minutes ago, Calm37 said:

Gap insurance is supposed to cover the difference between the value of the car and the amount owed. It is a separate insurance policy and a separate claim. My husband sells cars and has never heard of a gap policy that doesn't cover the whole difference. 

Has he ever heard of a difference of 6k on the loan?