Contractor won’t remove his equipment: wwyd? Update at end

[Innisfree]

Contractor has left scaffolding on the side of our house for more than a month now, probably six weeks, after finishing the job. A bunch of assorted tools and buckets of debris are underneath. Repeated requests to remove it always get a promise to do it the next day, but it never happens. He’s always got an excuse, mainly that he’s been sick. Fair enough, but he had employees to help with the job, so we don’t see why they can’t remove it. 

Obviously I erred in paying him as soon as the work was completed, but it never occurred to me that he’d essentially abandon his equipment.

We haven’t been happy with having the scaffold in place, because it seems like a security issue and an attractive nuisance. Kids could try to climb it. So, today, after giving the contractor notice and once again having him ignore a promise to remove it immediately, we’re paying someone else to take it down and stack it kinda-sorta out of sight in the yard. It may end up being completely visible, though, so conceivably subject to theft.

Our plan is to give the contractor a last warning that we’re disposing of the stuff however we can if it’s not gone in two weeks.

Is this fair? Are we likely to encounter legal problems? I have a chain of text messages documenting our efforts to get him to take it away. We really don’t want to have to pay a lawyer. Wwyd?

Edited January 14, 2023 by Innisfree

[Katy]

Google abandoned property laws in your state.

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Google abandoned property laws in your state.

Good thought. Off to do that.

[Innisfree]

Quote

All tangible and intangible property, including any income or increment thereon, less any lawful charges, that is held, issued, or owing in the ordinary course of the holder's business and has remained unclaimed by the owner for more than five years after it became payable is presumed abandoned, except as otherwise provided by this chapter. Property is payable for the purpose of this chapter notwithstanding the owner's failure to make demand or to present any instrument or document required to receive payment.

This is the general rule given, under which there are a lot of special cases. Most seem to assume the owner can’t be located, and most pertain to financial property. We have no way to hold this stuff for five years, but maybe they don’t mean this sort of situation. 😕

 

[Innisfree]

There is a section pertaining to sale of abandoned property, which specifies putting notices in newspapers, etc three weeks before the sale, and selling for the highest price. We can give him three weeks notice instead of two, but we weren’t really thinking of selling the stuff. I thought we might be able to donate it to a charity which could use or sell it. Maybe that would expose them to problems, though. I don’t actually think the contractor would sue, I think he’s an incompetent mess. I got the impression he doesn’t even have a checking account. But I don’t want to do the wrong thing, just get his equipment off our property.

Maybe we do need a lawyer. Ugh. Good money after bad, at this point.

Quote

A. Except as provided in subsection C, all abandoned property other than money or other certificate of ownership delivered to the administrator under this chapter shall be sold by him to the highest bidder at public sale (i) in such city, within or outside the Commonwealth, as affords in his judgment the most favorable market for the property involved or (ii) through the use of electronic media in a format approved by the administrator. The administrator may decline the highest bid and reoffer the property for sale if he considers the price bid insufficient. He need not offer any property for sale if, in his opinion, the probable cost of sale exceeds the value of the property.

B. Any sale held under this section within the Commonwealth shall be preceded by a single publication of notice of such sale at least three weeks in advance of the sale. Such notice shall be published in a newspaper of general circulation in the county or city where the property is to be sold. If any sale is to occur outside the Commonwealth, then the administrator may use such forms of notice or advertising as he deems necessary to constitute reasonable notice, including post, print, visual, telecommunications, electronic media, or any combination thereof. For the purposes of this section, any sale through the use of electronic media, including the Internet, shall be deemed to be a sale outside of the Commonwealth.

C. Securities listed on an established stock exchange shall be sold at prices prevailing at the time of sale on the exchange. Other securities may be sold over the counter at prices prevailing at the time of sale or by any other method the administrator deems advisable.

Unless the administrator deems it to be in the best interest of the Commonwealth to do otherwise, all securities delivered to the administrator shall be held for at least one year before the securities may be sold. If the administrator sells any securities before the expiration of the one-year period, any person making a claim pursuant to this chapter before the end of the one-year period is entitled to either the proceeds of the sale of the securities or the market value of the securities at the time the claim is made, whichever amount is greater. Any person making a claim pursuant to this chapter after the expiration of the one-year period is entitled to receive either the securities delivered to the administrator by the holder, if they still remain in the hands of the administrator, or the proceeds of the sale, but no person has any claim under this chapter against the Commonwealth, the holder, or any transfer agent, registrar, or other person acting for or on behalf of the holder for any appreciation in the value of the property occurring after delivery by the holder to the Commonwealth.

D. The purchaser of property at any sale conducted by the administrator pursuant to this chapter shall receive title to property purchased pursuant to subsections A or B and is entitled to ownership of property purchased pursuant to subsection C, free from all claims of the owner or previous holder thereof and of all persons claiming through or under such owner or previous holder. The administrator shall execute all documents necessary to complete the transfer of ownership.

E. If the administrator determines after investigation that any property delivered to him pursuant to this chapter has insubstantial commercial value, he may destroy or otherwise dispose of the property at any time. No action or proceeding may be maintained against the Commonwealth or any officer or against the holder for or on account of any action taken by the administrator with respect to the property pursuant to this subsection.

 

[QueenCat]

I would call the contractor and say that you will be putting the items at the curb in one week.

[Faith-manor]

I think I would haul it all to the curb, but not put it out next to your trash cans. Let him know that you are doing this because you don't want kids playing with the stuff so you have dismantled it and put it out to the road for him to pick up. Chances are, for whatever reason he is being lazy about this, he won't come and someone else will take it assuming it is free. But that isn't your look out. Once someone else takes it, if he asks, it was taken, you have no idea where it went, sucks to be him because you kept warning him and told him you had to get rid of it because safety, and HE didn't come get it. He is lucky it hasn't been stolen before now. If we leave a tool in our yard here, it is gone the next morning. 

[KatieJ]

I would have whoever you hire , move it to the curb . Let the contractor know it’s there and it will be posted and marked  free in 48 hours if it’s still there. 
 

[KatieJ]

Dh who has dealt with many contractors on his job over the years says, don’t pay anyone to move it. Don’t spend the money. Tell the contractor you are posting it for free in 24 hours. 1st come 1st serve. If it’s gone when he gets there , so be it.

[Scarlett]

Call his wife.  

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Call his wife.  

No clue if he has one, but I kind of doubt it. All I have is his cell number, and two potential addresses off Google. That might be a good way to light a fire under him, though.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Innisfree said:

No clue if he has one, but I kind of doubt it. All I have is his cell number, and two potential addresses off Google. That might be a good way to light a fire under him, though.

Look for him on FB

[Innisfree]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Look for him on FB

Good thought, but I’ve avoided facebook myself. Would I be able to see him without an account?

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Good thought, but I’ve avoided facebook myself. Would I be able to see him without an account?

I don’t think so. Have one of your kids look him up.Or someone you know that has FB. 

[plansrme]

I don't know what your legal position would be, but if you put it on Craigslist that the scaffolding is free if you dismantle it and take everything else, someone will take it. The promise of free tools will get someone out there quickly.

[happi duck]

I'd call again.  If they promise and don't come I'd tell them "I've got friends telling me to just list it for free on Craigslist but I'd rather you just come get your stuff."  

If they have active social media for their business you can maybe post there too.  An online review may get attention if they keep up with those.

Eta: bronze turtle has a good point about not saying anything about giving stuff away

Edited January 5, 2023 by happi duck

[catz]

Totally agree with posting publicly on social media.  I'd have no issue giving a deadline of 7 days of removal and at that time it will be given away.  I would notify multiple ways and keep a paper trail indicating the date of job finishing and the current date and safety concerns.  I would not pay anyone to dismantle it.  I'd list it for free on Craig's list with free first come first serve to whoever will dismantle and haul. If there is debris, you could make it contingent of disposing of that as well.   That is ridiculous.  Illness could explain a week or two and if he had other circumstances that made it impossible someone should have kept you posted.

[BronzeTurtle]

I disagree with telling him you're going to list it or sell it or freecycle it or whatever. You would have to be very certain that he couldn't come after you in small claims later to get reimbursed for his property. If he has a record of you saying you're going to sell it or give it away and legally it isn't yours to give away, that seems like it could come back to bite you.

[happi duck]

@BronzeTurtle

Good point!

[Katy]

You could also call your local non-emergency police department and ask what you should do. They probably know. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Personally, in my state, I'd send a certified letter to the contractor, and I'd report his license number to my state contractor's bureau for guidance. 

[catz]

34 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

I disagree with telling him you're going to list it or sell it or freecycle it or whatever. You would have to be very certain that he couldn't come after you in small claims later to get reimbursed for his property. If he has a record of you saying you're going to sell it or give it away and legally it isn't yours to give away, that seems like it could come back to bite you.

I seriously doubt it would go that far.  Threatening action and needing to carry through on it are 2 different things.  I think either they'd come almost immediately or they'd come clean on why they can't do it right now.  If I had a lawyer friend, I might ask them to mail something on this for a nominal fee.

I don't know why contractors often work this way - don't stay to schedule, bail the minute they have their money, etc.  I fully suspect it's just them taking paying jobs that result in payment and no immediate need for these items.  The OP is basically serving as a free storage facility for them.

OP - do you have an original contract on the work?  Does it say anything about time frame, clean up, schedule, etc?  I would be very angry.  Another public social media thing you could do is start posting negative reviews on yelp, google reviews, etc.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by catz

[kbutton]

4 minutes ago, catz said:

I don't know why contractors often work this way - don't stay to schedule, bail the minute they have their money, etc.  I fully suspect it's just them taking paying jobs that result in payment and no immediate need for these items.  The OP is basically serving as a free storage facility for them.

I don't support the behavior, but I think they are overwhelmed with work and not enough workers in many areas.

Even before the pandemic, it was hard to get any kind of professionals here except plumbers. Getting an electrician was nearly impossible the last time we needed one.

If the contractor is one that does just a few things and does a lot of those, they often have workers trained to do just those jobs, and then a boss has to manage all the details. That boss if often run ragged. We had some excavating done when we moved into this house as the yard was a hot mess with water flowing toward the basement, etc. The owner of the business was excellent, but it was difficult to get everything all coordinated with weather, equipment, etc., and he said a lot of his employees are really not very astute. He wasn't being mean--he was being realistic. At the time, he paid my older son to work for him all day; he said that he'll employ any willing and able bodied client's kid old enough to not get hurt to help them get an idea of whether they want to work with their hands because there is such a need for good workers.

Honestly, this kind of logistical stuff, IMO, is just one consequence of not feeding students in the trades and also not feeding bright students into blue collar careers. We need smart people doing this stuff too! 

(I have a profoundly gifted kid going into the trades.) 

[catz]

We have the same issue getting contractors in in our area and I don't disagree with your general point.  I also don't think that is an excuse not to keep a paid client with a liability hazard on their property indefinitely without reasonable follow up.  

The best and smartest (and definitely more expensive) contractors in our areas hire at least a part time (typically college educated, excellent with communications) administrative assistant as a scheduler and tend to have less issues like this.  But you also need to be ready to wait some months to schedule many of them.  

 

[Innisfree]

The scaffolding is down and easily accessible from the road. I texted the contractor once again to tell him that I had paid to have it dismantled, and that he had until next Friday (not tomorrow) to remove it. I cautioned him that it would be easy for anyone to remove at this point, so he’d be wise to get it promptly. Unfortunately this was all done before I saw the suggestion not to mention that we might dispose of it, so I told him that we’d get rid of it in the manner easiest for us if it was still there on Friday. 

He responded immediately, as he has in the past, that he’ll pick it up and leave us a check for the cost of disassembly. That would be great, but I’m not holding my breath.

We’ve also found the licensing board, and will talk to them, and we’re sending a certified letter.

The contractor who took it down is eagerly awaiting the outcome. He’s promised to get it off our hands if need be. 😁

I appreciate all the ideas.

[catz]

Way to go @Innisfree!  

[gardenmom5]

I'd send a certified letter saying if the items aren't gone in a week - you will sell what you can and trash the rest.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

The scaffolding is down and easily accessible from the road. I texted the contractor once again to tell him that I had paid to have it dismantled, and that he had until next Friday (not tomorrow) to remove it. I cautioned him that it would be easy for anyone to remove at this point, so he’d be wise to get it promptly. Unfortunately this was all done before I saw the suggestion not to mention that we might dispose of it, so I told him that we’d get rid of it in the manner easiest for us if it was still there on Friday. 

He responded immediately, as he has in the past, that he’ll pick it up and leave us a check for the cost of disassembly. That would be great, but I’m not holding my breath.

We’ve also found the licensing board, and will talk to them, and we’re sending a certified letter.

The contractor who took it down is eagerly awaiting the outcome. He’s promised to get it off our hands if need be. 😁

I appreciate all the ideas.

well - you won't have to pay to have it hauled off and taken to the dump!

[BronzeTurtle]

3 hours ago, Innisfree said:

The scaffolding is down and easily accessible from the road. I texted the contractor once again to tell him that I had paid to have it dismantled, and that he had until next Friday (not tomorrow) to remove it. I cautioned him that it would be easy for anyone to remove at this point, so he’d be wise to get it promptly. Unfortunately this was all done before I saw the suggestion not to mention that we might dispose of it, so I told him that we’d get rid of it in the manner easiest for us if it was still there on Friday. 

He responded immediately, as he has in the past, that he’ll pick it up and leave us a check for the cost of disassembly. That would be great, but I’m not holding my breath.

We’ve also found the licensing board, and will talk to them, and we’re sending a certified letter.

The contractor who took it down is eagerly awaiting the outcome. He’s promised to get it off our hands if need be. 😁

I appreciate all the ideas.

I think if he saw your message saying you'd get rid of it and agreed to pick it up before then you're probably covered. I was just thinking that in some cases you can say you're going to do a thing that seems perfectly reasonable (like get rid of equipment that's been left at your house) but the laws favor the other party if they decide to sue. But you have a lot of proof that he agreed to come get it multiple times. And if it gets taken from the road where you placed it for his convenience then I don't think that's on you.

[KungFuPanda]

I’d give him a date a week out, in writing, through the post office, with a return receipt. The second that date passes, freecycle the stuff.
 

Has he really been sick a whole entire month? I’d be more lenient if there was a way to be sure, but it’s ridiculous. He could send the men. 

[SHP]

The first thing I would do is check with your city codes. In some cities leaving it that long is illegal and YOU can incur insane fees. If this is the case and none of the below can help I would contact an attorney.

Next I would check any permits he had pulled and ask the permit office if leaving the stuff is in violation of anything. Having the city/county on him may get him moving.

Contact your attorney general's office and see if they can help you.

Might even call OSHA and tell them your concerns about children hurting themselves on the equipment. 

[stephanier.1765]

Darn, I was hoping I'd get on here today and see it was already gone. No sign of him today?

[happi duck]

@Innisfree Any updates?

[Innisfree]

No, not a peep from the guy who left everything, and it’s still sitting in a neat stack. I guess at least there’s a low crime rate. If the original contractor ever picks it up I’ll be amazed at this point. 

[Faith-manor]

55 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

No, not a peep from the guy who left everything, and it’s still sitting in a neat stack. I guess at least there’s a low crime rate. If the original contractor ever picks it up I’ll be amazed at this point. 

He isn't coming. Who knows why, but I doubt you will ever have him come. If he has health problems, and is looking at having to do something else for a living or retire, he may not care about the stuff. It tends to sell for pennies on the dollar at auction when a business goes under, and might not be worth paying someone to get it. I am rooting on the guy who took it apart getting to keep it.

[Robin M]

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

No, not a peep from the guy who left everything, and it’s still sitting in a neat stack. I guess at least there’s a low crime rate. If the original contractor ever picks it up I’ll be amazed at this point. 

When the week or the timeframe you gave him is up, call the contractor who took it down and is willing to take it off your hands. You've done your due diligence and gave the old contractor fair warning. It's his loss, not yours. 

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

He isn't coming.

I’m sure you’re right.

The contractor who took it down lives pretty close to our house. I’m going to tell him he’s welcome to come pick it up in a week (I think he already knows that, but I’ll be sure.) He’s been helpful and responsible working on the house, so I’ll be glad for him to get it. 

[Innisfree]

Update: the helpful contractor who took down the scaffolding collected it and the other equipment today, plus all the trash. I’m glad he got it. He sounds eager for more work in the future, so I think we’ve made a good contact. The original guy acknowledged our notice but never turned up, so, his loss. Hopefully we won’t hear any more from him.