Shooting at a Texas elementary school

[Farrar]

When ds had his first AP exam the other day, we got to the school and drove into the parking lot and parked. We got out of the car and walked into the building. We tried to figure out how to sign in. There wasn't any security. There were kids EVERYWHERE because the school has open lunch and it was just before noon. So there were kids in every part of the halls, outside, wandering across the street to the fast food, etc. We finally figured out how to go into one of the admin offices and asked what we needed to do. They asked if he knew what room the exam was in. He told them and they told him where the room was. As we left, I was like, ds, that was completely effing weird. I can't remember the last time I was in a school building where there wasn't a clear mandatory sign in right now experience or any security in sight.

[Shoeless]

The schools here don't have any sort of security, either. Before 3pm, the front door is locked and you have to pass through the front office to sign in. Which means zero. Just shoot the secretary and you are free to walk through the rest of the school and blast away. 

Half the time, the front door didn't close all the way so the lock never engaged. I got chewed out once for going through that door. 

After 4pm, clubs and activities start. The secretary leaves and unlocks the front door, so any one can enter and shoot up the after school programs. She's off the clock, so whatevs! 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

When ds had his first AP exam the other day, we got to the school and drove into the parking lot and parked. We got out of the car and walked into the building. We tried to figure out how to sign in. There wasn't any security. There were kids EVERYWHERE because the school has open lunch and it was just before noon. So there were kids in every part of the halls, outside, wandering across the street to the fast food, etc. We finally figured out how to go into one of the admin offices and asked what we needed to do. They asked if he knew what room the exam was in. He told them and they told him where the room was. As we left, I was like, ds, that was completely effing weird. I can't remember the last time I was in a school building where there wasn't a clear mandatory sign in right now experience or any security in sight.

That is absolutely cray. Clearly, some schools haven't gotten the memo.

[Matryoshka]

The Senator from the Sandy Hook district gave a great speech/rant today, asking his fellow senators "WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE??"  What, indeed.  Dh called me in from the other room to listen to this - it's worth it.
https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/what-are-we-doing-senator-pleads-for-bipartisan-support-in-fighting-school-violence/2792664/

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Matryoshka

[Shoeless]

20 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

And the families who encourage them b/c they think it's harmless fun and fits in with their own political leanings. Folks seem to have no trouble identifying LGBTQIA identification as a social contagion but can't squint well-enough to see the blaring neon sign that is gun violence? Something that results in mass casualties?

There was a mom in our homeschool group that kept suggesting visiting the gun range as a field trip. No. Just, no. 

[Eos]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

I lived in Denver when the Columbine shooting occurred, and my goddaughter was at a high school two miles away.  The movie theater in Highlands Ranch where the gunman killed people at a showing of The Dark Knight in 2012 was a movie theater I frequented when we lived there.  My husband worked on the campus of Virginia Tech when the massacre happened.  A reporter and camera man from my current town were killed on air.  I lived in San Antonio, just down the road from Uvalde.  I have a friend in Buffalo whose closest grocery store that she regularly frequents is the one where people were killed last week.

I am sick to death of watching mass shootings and going, "Oh, wow, I know that place." 

I'm so sorry for your proximity and trauma, Terabith.

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Our schools have, minimum, double doors and buzzer access. Even city offices do after the Virginia Beach municipal shooting a couple years ago. You have to be buzzed in the front door and the second set can be auto-locked by pushing a button. You need a badge that only allows access to certain floors. There's only one receptionist in the entry area. That only helps with external assailants who make a gun visible, not kids who bring guns to school on the bus or in a backpack. The only thing that stops that is prosecuting ALL parents, not just the ones who don't look like you, who leave guns accessible to juveniles. Raise the age for gun purchases. Universal background checks. Red flag laws. ALL OF THE ABOVE. We DO NOT have to sit back and accept this. I really don't care about the cost. I care about my kids coming home safe. Apparently Texas DGAF.

Yup, it's not the schools, it's the damn guns.  Gun owners that use them for violence, sellers, and manufacturers should have the crap sued out of them over and over again, since apparently it's only money that talks in this country.

Can you imagine how fast we'd have meaningful gun laws if an expensive boarding school where students whose parents are Senators were shot up?  Yesterday.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Eos

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

And there are old people who find all of this disgusting.  But they’re not balanced. Gen Z is more concerned for humanity, by percentage, than the old people ever have been.
Also, you need to find new people. Even in my heavily armed area, plenty of people are in favor of common sense legislation.  Carrying a gun (a debatable act, for sure) doesn’t mean supporting a free for all.

I do not know anyone who is not for responsible sane gun laws. And almost everyone I know with the exception of priests own guns and many of them open or conceal carry too.

I know there are nutters out there who think they and everyone else should have unfettered access to any all guns. I know there are parents who don’t believe in gun safes even though they have little kids. I know there are stupid people out there.  Unfortunately we can’t make stupid illegal. But we can make it a harder life choice. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Murphy101

[1234]

One of my dc’s high schools in Florida was mostly all outside. There were no hallways because there were just a bunch of different buildings with classrooms and each had an outside door. There was no way to have any security other than the one armed officer they had.

Their other high school was huge and did have buzzers at the main doors. It was so big though that there were many other ways to get in without having to use the buzzer. I just don’t think most schools can have really have the security they need these days. 

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That is absolutely cray. Clearly, some schools haven't gotten the memo.

So... they pulled the police out of the schools entirely as part of an effort to end school to prison pipelines and to defund policing related to schools. They never had the physical security. It felt to me honestly like some of this was post pandemic we don't even know what we're doing anymore stuff.

[mom2scouts]

14 hours ago, Terabith said:

I have always been bothered by the fact that the plans, that my kids are drilled in every quarter, involve turning off the lights and sitting in the room quietly, even when there are exterior exit doors in the classroom.  Even when I have taught in elementary school, it has always seemed to me like in an emergency, lives would be saved by opening the door and having the kids run.  I mean, there may be classrooms and instances when turning off the lights and hiding is the safest situation, but I wish they'd allow teachers and adults on the ground to make the judgment call in a given situation.  

I happen to know a guy who's considered an expert on active shooters. He writes safety articles and travels the country conducting training. I had a long conversation with him about this once and he told me how he researched how these methods got started. He told me that superintendents in California had issues with drive by shootings and sitting on the floor with the lights out kept them from being targets in windows during gang shootings. Since many California schools have exterior doors and fences and the shooters weren't coming into buildings, this made sense. The superintendents went to national conferences and told other superintendents these methods which were adopted in places with indoor hallways where it was terrible advice. The training has changed and escaping out windows or running are better plans. He said school shooters are almost always students and they know that the rooms are occupied, so turning out lights and being quiet is just stupid.

As far as why this keeps happening, we have a MAJOR mental health crisis in this country. I've known people who check into the hospital to see a doctor because they know they'll have to wait months before getting an appointment with a mental health provider. That was before Covid caused trauma and lonliness and other problems. There's a homeless advocate in my area who is being very loud about the mental illness and addiction crisis he's seeing right now. He's started posting videos on Facebook showing people acting crazy or strung out on drugs. People complain about him exploiting people without their consent, but he thinks it's so bad that he says he'll keep doing it until someone in local government provides more help. I'm not sure if we need to bring back mental hospitals, but something needs to happen.

Edited May 25, 2022 by mom2scouts

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I do not know anyone who is jot for responsible sane gun laws. And almost everyone I know with the exception of priests own guns and many of them open or conceal carry too.

I know there are nutters out there who think they and everyone else should have unfettered access to any all guns. I know there are parents who don’t believe in gun safes even though they have little kids. I know there are stupid people out there.  Unfortunately we can’t make stupid illegal. But we can make it a harder life choice. 

We can make stupid illegal. We can require fingerprint trigger locks and safes. We can criminalize gun manufacturer marketing and negligence. We can do things. We're NOT helpless. We're being held hostage by an armed contingent of ammosexuals and their legislative minions. Stop voting for them.

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

One of my dc’s high schools in Florida was mostly all outside. There were no hallways because there were just a bunch of different buildings with classrooms and each had an outside door. There was no way to have any security other than the one armed officer they had.

Their other high school was huge and did have buzzers at the main doors. It was so big though that there were many other ways to get in without having to use the buzzer. I just don’t think most schools can have really have the security they need these days. 

I grew up in the Deep South and our schools, elementary through high school, had breezeways and classroom doors that opened directly to the outside. Multiple entry and exit points. Now I’m curious to revisit them to see how they may have been altered since I attended. 

[rebcoola]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That is absolutely cray. Clearly, some schools haven't gotten the memo.

I don't know about that.  They all have emergency plans for school shootings.   I agree that things need to change with gun control etc.  Just not sure how much a buzzer or a guard can really do or is just security theatre?  

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

So... they pulled the police out of the schools entirely as part of an effort to end school to prison pipelines and to defund policing related to schools. They never had the physical security. It felt to me honestly like some of this was post pandemic we don't even know what we're doing anymore stuff.

Geeze louise. You can have LEO's on site without bringing them into every disorderly student issue. There's a squad car parked outside of all of our schools. Not sure how much good it will do given the other access points and parents who buy guns for their kids and promote gun ownership/use of guns as a means to impose your will, but it's *something*.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

I happen to know a guy who's considered an expert on active shooters. He writes safety articles and travels the country conducting training. I had a long conversation with him about this once and he told me how he researched how these methods got started. He told me that superintendents in California had issues with drive by shootings and sitting on the floor with the lights out kept them from being targets in windows during gang shootings. Since many California schools have exterior doors and fences and the shooters weren't coming into buildings, this made sense. The superintendents went to national conferences and told other superintendents these methods which were adopted in places with indoor hallways were it was terrible advice. The training has changed and escaping out windows or running are better plans. He said school shooters are almost always students and they know that the rooms are occupied, so turning out lights and being quiet is just stupid.

As far as why this keeps happening, we have a MAJOR mental health crisis in this country. I've known people who check into the hospital to see a doctor because they know they'll have to wait months before getting an appointment with a mental health provider. That was before Covid caused trauma and lonliness and other problems. There's a homeless advocate in my area who is being very loud about the mental illness and addiction crisis he's seeing right now. He's started posting videos on Facebook showing people acting crazy or strung out on drugs. People complain about him exploiting people without their consent, but he thinks it's so bad that he says he'll keep doing it until someone in local government provides more help. I'm not sure if we need to bring back mental hospitals, but something needs to happen.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Other countries have been through this pandemic with similar mental health issues and their kids aren't dying at school. Their citizens aren't dying in grocery stores and churches. Their suicide rates are a fraction of ours. We have a gun problem. Most people with mental health challenges are a danger to themselves, not others.

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

I don't know about that.  They all have emergency plans for school shootings.   I agree that things need to change with gun control etc.  Just not sure how much a buzzer or a guard can really do or is just security theatre?  

A buzzer, guard, and double door system would have kept an armed high schooler from entering our elementary schools.

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Geeze louise. You can have LEO's on site without bringing them into every disorderly student issue. There's a squad car parked outside of all of our schools. Not sure how much good it will do given the other access points and parents who buy guns for their kids and promote gun ownership/use of guns as a means to impose your will, but it's *something*.

I'm honestly not totally sold that most schools need LEO's. And once they're there, keeping them out of school discipline is hard. But that's in part because I don't know that this security stuff does much good. Like, I just don't know that any of it does much good when you have a gun problem on this level.

[Catwoman]

Any more news about the shooter's grandmother, other than that she is in critical condition?

I can't help but wonder if she discovered what he was going to do and tried to stop him, and that's why he shot her.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Farrar said:

I'm honestly not totally sold that most schools need LEO's. And once they're there, keeping them out of school discipline is hard. But that's in part because I don't know that this security stuff does much good. Like, I just don't know that any of it does much good when you have a gun problem on this level.

It might not help in any particular situation/set of circumstances, no. I'm just tired of NOTHING as the answer to what we can/should do. I have no patience for that.

[Sneezyone]

It's really not OK for people to blame mental illness when the individual who committed this crime was allowed to legally purchase a gun. He had the money and the law on his side. He had no diagnosis on file to prevent access. He was not required to undergo a background check that would prevent a purchase even if he had been adjudicated too ill to own a gun. Ammosexuals don't get to use mental illness to excuse the heinous mass murders of every legal gun owner when they do not vote for withholding gun sales from anyone, ever. The hypocrisy of it all.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Murphy101]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

We can make stupid illegal. We can require fingerprint trigger locks and safes. We can criminalize gun manufacturer marketing and negligence. We can do things. We're NOT helpless. We're being held hostage by an armed contingent of ammosexuals and their legislative minions. Stop voting for them.

Um. Okay. I literally said we can stop this.  I have never not advocated for sane gun regulations.

[Terabith]

 

[goldberry]

4 hours ago, goldberry said:

Colorado passed Red Flag laws and every single gun support group was against them.  They tried to pass safe storage laws, where people could be held accountable if they did not store their guns safely and something happened.  My County Sheriff was vehemently against it and everyone was so happy to that OUR SHERIFF was standing up for guns!  I asked about why on a public forum (big mistake).  Of course, dear God, seconds could make a difference, and the difference seconds COULD make was clearly MORE IMPORTANT than what IS HAPPENING when guns get into kids or others hands.

 

23 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I do not know anyone who is not for responsible sane gun laws. And almost everyone I know with the exception of priests own guns and many of them open or conceal carry too.

I know there are nutters out there who think they and everyone else should have unfettered access to any all guns. I know there are parents who don’t believe in gun safes even though they have little kids. I know there are stupid people out there.  Unfortunately we can’t make stupid illegal. But we can make it a harder life choice. 

Murphy did you see my post above, about what's happened in my state, which is fairly purple?  My county was up in arms over a SAFE STORAGE LAW.  How can you even have a conversation like that?

Adding, anyone who supports the NRA, which lots of gun owners do, is okay with NRA campaigning against "responsible gun laws".  NRA opposes any gun regulation on principle.

Edited May 25, 2022 by goldberry

[rebcoola]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

A buzzer, guard, and double door system would have kept an armed high schooler from entering our elementary schools.

I thought this school did have a buzzer and guard? 

I don't want schools, churches, grocery stores or movie theaters shot up. I also don't want money at already strapped schools spent on things that actually don't do much of anything. 

[Murphy101]

8 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm honestly not totally sold that most schools need LEO's. And once they're there, keeping them out of school discipline is hard. But that's in part because I don't know that this security stuff does much good. Like, I just don't know that any of it does much good when you have a gun problem on this level.

Yeah. I can’t say enough with how

d o n e I am with school policies and facilities having more in common with our prison system than anything developmentally appropriate for children.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

I thought this school did have a buzzer and guard? 

I don't want schools, churches, grocery stores or movie theaters shot up. I also don't want money at already strapped schools spent on things that actually don't do much of anything. 

It's the ONLY thing schools can do right now because the citizenry has thrown its hands up and declared itself collectively deaf, dumb, blind, and impotent. For all we know, the guards slowed him down enough/wounded him and it could have been even worse.

Enough with the disingenuousness. PROPOSE SOMETHING. ANYTHING. TO GET THE GUNS OFF THE STREET/OUT OF THE HANDS OF KIDS.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Terabith]

Moloch was a gun manufacturer.  

Edited May 25, 2022 by Terabith

[Heartstrings]

31 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

One of my dc’s high schools in Florida was mostly all outside. There were no hallways because there were just a bunch of different buildings with classrooms and each had an outside door. There was no way to have any security other than the one armed officer they had.

Their other high school was huge and did have buzzers at the main doors. It was so big though that there were many other ways to get in without having to use the buzzer. I just don’t think most schools can have really have the security they need these days. 

A 12 foot perimeter fence with 1 entrance in and out, guard stationed out front.  There is a way.  Since we’re keeping the guns come hell or high water we gotta accept the flip side.  It’s just not palatable Bc it ruins the idea that it only happens elsewhere. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Terabith said:

Jesus is no where in this. Satan is driving the gun bus. Lots of Christians aboard.

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

A 12 foot perimeter fence with 1 entrance in and out, guard stationed out front.  There is a way.  Since we’re keeping the guns come hell or high water we gotta accept the flip side.  It’s just palatable Bc it ruins the idea that it only happens elsewhere. 

How do you keep kids from bringing guns in?  An elementary school student at a school five minutes away from me, where I have taught, brought a gun to school last week.  I just don't see these kinds of precautions keeping guns out, since most shooters are students.  

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Terabith said:

How do you keep kids from bringing guns in?  An elementary school student at a school five minutes away from me, where I have taught, brought a gun to school last week.  I just don't see these kinds of precautions keeping guns out, since most shooters are students.  

Start prosecuting parents. EVERY.FLIPPING.TIME.

[Heartstrings]

Just now, Terabith said:

How do you keep kids from bringing guns in?  An elementary school student at a school five minutes away from me, where I have taught, brought a gun to school last week.  I just don't see these kinds of precautions keeping guns out, since most shooters are students.  

I’m at the point where I think we need metal detectors in every school, for every entry.  I know it’s a terrible thought but honestly we subject inner city kids to it already in some places.   If inner LA kids can handle it so can rural OK kids, or whatever.  They are already doing shooter drills, preserving childrens mental health went away a long time ago in schools a long time ago.   Let’s try to protect them with more than a hammer by the window and a broom stick like was mentioned upthread. 

 

 *If it saves just one child*.  

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Start prosecuting parents. EVERY.FLIPPING.TIME.

Yeah, I honestly think prosecuting parents and monetary liabilities are the only real options we have.  

I don't love the idea of more resource officers in schools.  Once they're there, they get used for even trivial disciplinary actions, and it creates a really concerning dynamic.  But obviously, there are times it's good they are there.  I don't know.  I just don't think things like fences and guards are likely to be effective.  

I think making it financially painful for gun owners and makers might make a difference.  

[KSera]

 

41 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

I happen to know a guy who's considered an expert on active shooters. He writes safety articles and travels the country conducting training. I had a long conversation with him about this once and he told me how he researched how these methods got started. He told me that superintendents in California had issues with drive by shootings and sitting on the floor with the lights out kept them from being targets in windows during gang shootings. Since many California schools have exterior doors and fences and the shooters weren't coming into buildings, this made sense. The superintendents went to national conferences and told other superintendents these methods which were adopted in places with indoor hallways were it was terrible advice. The training has changed and escaping out windows or running are better plans. He said school shooters are almost always students and they know that the rooms are occupied, so turning out lights and being quiet is just stupid.

As far as why this keeps happening, we have a MAJOR mental health crisis in this country. I've known people who check into the hospital to see a doctor because they know they'll have to wait months before getting an appointment with a mental health provider. That was before Covid caused trauma and lonliness and other problems. There's a homeless advocate in my area who is being very loud about the mental illness and addiction crisis he's seeing right now. He's started posting videos on Facebook showing people acting crazy or strung out on drugs. People complain about him exploiting people without their consent, but he thinks it's so bad that he says he'll keep doing it until someone in local government provides more help. I'm not sure if we need to bring back mental hospitals, but something needs to happen.

I agree with your first part about the old advice to hide in classrooms being bad and outdated. Run is supposed to be first choice, fight second choice. I don't think that change has happened everywhere though (nor do I think kids should be doing drills on how to fight active shooters. That's more traumatizing than helpful).

As for the second part, no, our mental health crisis does not explain this, and certainly Covid doesn't, considering this was going on long before Covid (and we had a blessed break from it when kids were schooling at home). Other countries have mental health crises and they don't have this problem because their populace doesn't have this kind of access to guns. It also means more suicides, because they are much more likely in homes that have a gun available.

13 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Jesus is no where in this. Satan is driving the gun bus. Lots of Christians aboard.

Agree, but I think the graphic is a helpful statement because it's very to the point on the craziness of Christians clinging to guns. I'd like to hear a fervent gun owner's rights-type Christian try to layout some kind of cogent argument for how they think Jesus would want them carrying a gun. It's preposterous. The last thing Jesus would be carrying if he were walking the Earth today is a gun, and they know it. So, if you're Christian, WWJD and get rid of your guns.

Edited May 25, 2022 by KSera
clarification

[livetoread]

 

13 minutes ago, KSera said:

I'd like to hear a fervent gun owner's rights-type Christian try to layout some kind of cogent argument for how they think Jesus would want them carrying a gun.

Oh, I've read those arguments on this site, many mass shootings back. Basically it boiled down to how important it was for good Christian people to protect others with their guns and if many school kids had to die, well that sucks, we live in a fallen world, and more good Christian people with guns would help. Any attempts to limit guns means fewer good Christian folks with guns which is much worse than dead school kids because fallen world etc.

Edited May 25, 2022 by livetoread

[Grace Hopper]

34 minutes ago, KSera said:

.Agree, but I think the graphic is a helpful statement because it's very to the point on the craziness of Christians clinging to guns. I'd like to hear a fervent gun owner's rights-type Christian try to layout some kind of cogent argument for how they think Jesus would want them carrying a gun. It's preposterous. The last thing Jesus would be carrying if he were walking the Earth today is a gun, and they know it. So, if you're Christian, WWJD and get rid of your guns.

This. As a Christian I believe God is sovereign over when my time on earth ends. I believe that He can miraculously preserve me in a dangerous situation where I have no gun, should that be His will.  
 

I could understand a reasonable position of a shotgun for a hunter, guns for LEOs and arms provided for those in the military. But I know people with multiple weapons in their homes, handguns and shotguns and rifles and even automatic assault weapons. These people I know actually practice using these weapons so rarely that I wouldn’t trust them to use them properly under stressful circumstances. To allow anyone to purchase without a background check or waiting period, to carry without a permit and proper, regular practice and training… well, that just defies reason. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Murphy101]

33 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Start prosecuting parents. EVERY.FLIPPING.TIME.

How do you prosecute parents for what their adult children are doing? He went out for his 18th birthday and stocked up in guns. Which is legal. And also there is not legal way his parents could have prevented him from doing it.

I’m not necessarily against it I just don’t know how that would work. 

I do think if a crime is committed with someone’s gun due to their negligence - such as an unsecured or lack of gun safe for example - I think the gun owner should be criminally charged. 

29 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I’m at the point where I think we need metal detectors in every school, for every entry.  I know it’s a terrible thought but honestly we subject inner city kids to it already in some places.   If inner LA kids can handle it so can rural OK kids, or whatever.  They are already doing shooter drills, preserving childrens mental health went away a long time ago in schools a long time ago.   Let’s try to protect them with more than a hammer by the window and a broom stick like was mentioned upthread. 

 

 *If it saves just one child*.  

I disagree. And I don’t think inner city LA kids are handling it either.

Prison environments are emotionally and mentally scarring for life even to the most hardened of adults for short stays. Painting it pretty colors and using school staff as wardens for 12 formative years 6-9 hours a day 5 days a week just makes it a more twisted scarring for children.

We need gun regulation.

[Grace Hopper]

Just saw a report that there are now 19 children and 2 teachers dead. Including the shooter and grandmother, 23 dead. 
 

Two officers shot and in the hospital, and I assume additional children, too. I pray that we don’t wake to a higher death toll tomorrow. 😢

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

How do you prosecute parents for what their adult children are doing? He went out for his 18th birthday and stocked up in guns. Which is legal. And also there is not legal way his parents could have prevented him from doing it.

I’m not necessarily against it I just don’t know how that would work. 

I do think if a crime is committed with someone’s gun due to their negligence - such as an unsecured or lack of gun safe for example - I think the gun owner should be criminally charged. 

I disagree. And I don’t think inner city LA kids are handling it either.

Prison environments are emotionally and mentally scarring for life even to the most hardened of adults for short stays. Painting it pretty colors and using school staff as wardens for 12 formative years 6-9 hours a day 5 days a week just makes it a more twisted scarring for children.

We need gun regulation.

So, everytime there’s a mass shooting, the line is, well X particular thing wouldn’t have prevented this one so it’s not worth doing, regardless of whether it would have prevented shootings #1, 8, 12, 13, …5782. We need all of the above. This kid barely turned 18. Did he have a job? Where’d the money for the gun come from? Did his parents/caregivers approve or alert authorities if he was unstable? Raise the purchase age. Require background checks for ALL purchases, no private party sales. Reinstate manufacturer liability laws. Prohibit civilian ownership of military-style rifles and large capacity magazines. There’s a lot we can do.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Just saw a report that there are now 19 children and 2 teachers dead. Including the shooter and grandmother, 23 dead. 
 

Two officers shot and in the hospital, and I assume additional children, too. I pray that we don’t wake to a higher death toll tomorrow. 😢

3 teachers. The grandmother is still critical but was airlifted to a hospital and is alive.

[Katy]

I have two questions...

1) Why don't we make the legal age of adulthood 25 or 26?  Meaning you need a fully functioning frontal lobe to purchase guns.  We could make an exception for those in the military or similar civil service jobs (Americore) perhaps.  But neuroscience has shown the founding fathers were correct.  I'm thinking this would be easier to get passed than other, better options I can think of.

2) Does anyone know what the legal age to purchase handguns in Texas is?  I saw the law changed with regard to carrying them at 18, but did that mean an 18 year old is free to purchase them as well?

[Murphy101]

I wonder if all the supposedly prolife NRA members out there ever think about all the women who found out they are pregnant within hours of finding out about this shooting.

I wonder how many of those women might think they’d rather abort than end up just another name to pray for in a growing ever longer list of parents grieving their baby being shot to death.

I wonder if maybe being prolife means, or should mean, being pro gun regulation laws that protect innocent life.

I wonder what it would be like to have a prolife legislation that reduces mass shooting deaths.

I wonder if it would answer a lot of prayers and save a lot of lives.

I wonder what it would be like to send kids to school or to church or the grocery store or a concert in a country where I didn’t have to just wonder about living in a place like that.

[Lillyfee]

I also think regulation is the only way. 

I sometimes get goose bumps when I read on our neighborhood group about people that say "Should somebody enter my garage/yard etc they could not run anymore. We are armed to our teeth." or something crazy like that. Seriously?  The chance that you shoot some innocent person that accidentally walks in your yard or the chance that you shoot some pretty harmless criminal that wants to steal your lawn chair is 10 000 times bigger than that you shoot a serial killer. 

How messed up is that thought process?

Lots of women also say "If my husband is not home, I have the gun on my night table. " also here I am like "the chance that your kid accidentally shoots himself or that you misinterpret a situation and kill somebody harmless is so much more likely than that you shoot a serious criminal that comes in your house."

I do not get this mentality and there needs to be a ban on guns for normal people. It's scary and crazy and it's not normal to think like that.

If somebody wants to steal my car for example I don't want to shoot this person. I rather let that person go as a human life is more valuable than my car.

[KSera]

I'm reading that the perpetrator was wearing body armor and encountered law enforcement who failed to stop him before he entered the school. How's this good guy with gun theory supposed to work again? And what is the reason for ordinary citizens to have body armor? Buffalo shooter was wearing it as well.

[Heartstrings]

There’s really nothing to be done but pray and accept that leaving the house is just Russian roulette.  There are lots of things that *could* be done, but none that *will* be done. 

[Murphy101]

36 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Just saw a report that there are now 19 children and 2 teachers dead. Including the shooter and grandmother, 23 dead. 
 

Two officers shot and in the hospital, and I assume additional children, too. I pray that we don’t wake to a higher death toll tomorrow. 😢

I checked an hour ago. 23 dead but there’s 24 that were taken to 4 different hospitals and only 2 of those have been confirmed discharged so far. (A grazed shot and unspecific non gun injuries to another.) 

34 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

So, everytime there’s a mass shooting, the line is, well X particular thing wouldn’t have prevented this one so it’s not worth doing, regardless of whether it would have prevented shootings #1, 8, 12, 13, …5782

okay. Stop. I have not ever used that line. I’m not using it here. If you want a discussion - awesome sauce. Let’s have one. If every time I ask a rather valid question you are going to accuse me of acting helpless and do nothing attitude - then I guess I’ll just put you on ignore since you aren’t even reading my post before responding to me. 

34 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

We need all of the above. This kid barely turned 18. Did he have a job? Where’d the money for the gun come from? Did his parents/caregivers approve or alert authorities if he was unstable? Raise the purchase age. Require background checks for ALL purchases, no private party sales. Reinstate manufacturer liability laws. Prohibit civilian ownership of military-style rifles and large capacity magazines. There’s a lot we can do.

There is a lot we can do but what matters is doing something effective and rational.  

I would be 100% for proof of owning a gun safe adequate to gun size and number of guns.  state and federal background check, and safety training before the purchase of every gun via any sales means. And allotting  state and federal funds to make those checks happen in a reasonable and accurate manner.

I would be okay with holding owners of guns liable for what is done with their gun by those who were not the owner, even if they live in house or are relatives. 

Some of your suggestions might be helpful in a world where parents had any mental health support in their communities. Sadly most have almost nothing.  If you called our local police and said your 18 year old son bought guns and you don’t think he is mentally stable? They probably take a name and ask some questions maybe do a well check. And that’s it. Because he didn’t break the law. Legally there isn’t anything else the cops could do even if they agreed he was a concern. They could maybe keep an eye out and do some extra drive bys. But they can’t arrest an adult because his mom doesn’t think he should Buy a gun with his own money.  In my state the largest provider of mental health services is the prison system. One guess on how good that service is.

”military style rifle” is not a thing and has nothing to do with better gun regulation.  It’s a scary sounding phrase to people who don’t know anything about guns.  ALL guns are “military style”.

I agree there is a LOT we can do that would be effective and wouldn’t even keep 95% of people from buying nearly any gun they want.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Murphy101

[Shelydon]

42 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

How do you prosecute parents for what their adult children are doing? He went out for his 18th birthday and stocked up in guns. Which is legal. And also there is not legal way his parents could have prevented him from doing it.

I’m not necessarily against it I just don’t know how that would work. 

I do think if a crime is committed with someone’s gun due to their negligence - such as an unsecured or lack of gun safe for example - I think the gun owner should be criminally charged. 

I disagree. And I don’t think inner city LA kids are handling it either.

Prison environments are emotionally and mentally scarring for life even to the most hardened of adults for short stays. Painting it pretty colors and using school staff as wardens for 12 formative years 6-9 hours a day 5 days a week just makes it a more twisted scarring for children.

We need gun regulation.

In Texas you cannot purchase a handgun until age 21.  So if he purchased a handgun from a local store at age 18, the store needs to be prosecuted. 

[Shelydon]

35 minutes ago, Katy said:

I have two questions...

1) Why don't we make the legal age of adulthood 25 or 26?  Meaning you need a fully functioning frontal lobe to purchase guns.  We could make an exception for those in the military or similar civil service jobs (Americore) perhaps.  But neuroscience has shown the founding fathers were correct.  I'm thinking this would be easier to get passed than other, better options I can think of.

2) Does anyone know what the legal age to purchase handguns in Texas is?  I saw the law changed with regard to carrying them at 18, but did that mean an 18 year old is free to purchase them as well?

Age 21 for a handgun, age 18 for a long rifle. 

[Murphy101]

Just now, Shelydon said:

In Texas you cannot purchase a handgun until age 21.  So if he purchased a handgun from a local store at age 18, the store needs to be prosecuted. 

If that’s true I think the prosecution should be brutal to send one hell of a message that no other business ever thinks it worth it to skirt that law again. 

[KSera]

14 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I agree there is a LOT we can do that would be effective and wouldn’t even keep 95% of people from buying nearly any gun they want.

What do you propose? I think there's a heck of a lot we can do to make things better than they are right now. It won't stop all shootings and certainly not overnight, but over time there will be fewer weapons and thus fewer deaths. We could start with banning high capacity magazines and having a massive tax on ammunition. And tracking ammunition. The money to implement that could come in part from the ammunition tax. And I don't care about all the semantics about what different kinds of guns are called. We all know the kinds of guns that are used in mass shootings. Let's get a new name then to group them all together so we can stop the semantics game rather than doing something about them.

This kid bought these guns the day he turned 18. I don't know when that was, but that's what is reported. Had there been more roadblocks, waiting periods, training required, this may not have happened. Honestly, if people want to argue that there's nothing we can do to stop guns from killing so many kids each year, they're making an argument for overturning the 2A. Figure out a way to make this better, or there just can't be guns out there at all.

eta: Do people realize that in 2020, guns became the leading cause of death for kids in the US. GUNS. They surpassed automobile accidents. So 2A lovers, is it worth it?

Edited May 25, 2022 by KSera